1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: Well, if we bring in one of the candidates for 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 2: the Republican nomination running against Donald Trump, right now, Will 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: Herd joins, of course, former Congressman Texas's twenty third district 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: and former CIA officer Will Heard. We welcome you back 9 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: to Bloomberg Radio. I want to point our listeners to 10 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 2: your statement that followed the indictment dropping two days ago. 11 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 2: You wrote, let me be crystal clear. Trump's presidential bid 12 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 2: is driven by an attempt to stay out of prison 13 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: and scam his supporters into footing his legal bills. Furthermore, 14 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 2: his denial of the twenty twenty election results and actions 15 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: on January sixth show he's unfit for office. 16 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: Unquote. 17 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: You know Will heard that Chris Christy has similar things 18 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 2: to say about the former president. What's your message to 19 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: the rest of the field who seemed to be defending him. 20 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 3: My message to the rest of the field and Joe, 21 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 3: thanks for having me on. It is real simple is 22 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 3: a free piece of advice. You don't beat an opponent 23 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 3: by kissing his butt or licking his boots. And the 24 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 3: fact that folks who wanted to defend Donald Trump, we 25 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 3: wouldn't be in this situation if Donald Trump would have 26 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 3: done what every other president has done and accepted a 27 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 3: peaceful transfer of power. Donald Trump wouldn't be here if 28 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 3: he didn't try to pressure the States his own administration 29 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 3: and then ultimately trying to force Mike Pence by inciting 30 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 3: people to go down there and try to hang Mike Pence. 31 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 3: We wouldn't be here if he didn't do all this. 32 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 3: We wouldn't be here if he when he was told 33 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 3: that he had classified documents in his possession, he would 34 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 3: have turned them back in, but instead he tried to 35 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 3: keep them, He lied about it, got his lawyers to 36 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 3: lie about it, and then try to destroy evidence about 37 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 3: the fact that he had this. We wouldn't be in 38 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 3: this situation if it wasn't for those actions. And the 39 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 3: other folks that are running in this race need to 40 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 3: step up and recognize that, because otherwise you're just running 41 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 3: to be his vice president or in his administration. 42 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 2: Well, I have to ask you, as you're referred to 43 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: in Politico as the purest of the never Trump candidates. 44 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 2: I'm sure you like that. Is that holding back your campaign? 45 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 2: If you were given Donald Trump a hug right now 46 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: and talking about weaponizing the DJ, would you be on 47 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 2: the debate stage? 48 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 3: Well? Well, Joe, Well, first off, I'm feeling comfortable that 49 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 3: we're going to meet the requirements to be on the 50 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 3: debate stage. And if your listeners are interested in seeing 51 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 3: someone like me hit those requirements, go to herd for 52 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 3: America dot com and donate at least one dollar. Well, 53 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 3: your listeners can probably do more than one dollar. And 54 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 3: so but but but but look, here's what I've learned. 55 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 3: Be honest, treat people's respects, talk about those things that 56 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 3: unite us rather than divides us. And and so for me, 57 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 3: I have to be honest. And look, I recognize I'm 58 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 3: a dark horse. I recognize that polling has Donald Trumps 59 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 3: as in the lead. But the election is twenty five 60 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 3: weeks from now. We should have learned since twenty sixteen 61 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 3: that polling is only a snapshot in time. About this 62 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 3: time in twenty sixteen, Donald Trump only had one percent 63 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 3: of the electorate, and so there are more people that 64 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 3: dislike Donald Trump and do not want him to be 65 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 3: on a ballot than there is not And so look, 66 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 3: I'm building a startup. I'm running a startup, right, And 67 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 3: what do we know about startups that are successful? They 68 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 3: have a great product market fit. And part of having 69 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 3: a good product market fit is to know who your 70 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 3: customers and who your customers aren't. And so that's what 71 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 3: we're focused on. And I'm here in New Hampshire as 72 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 3: we speak, and it's about growing networks. And nobody thought 73 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 3: a black Republican could win in a seventy two percent 74 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 3: Latino district, but I did because I showed up to 75 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 3: places that people weren't expected. And here's what people are frustrated, 76 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 3: Even people that have voted for Donald Trump twice. They 77 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 3: recognize all of these indictments and guess what they're not 78 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 3: over right, there's probably gonna be follow on indictments. The 79 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 3: DOJ is going to put the screws to these six 80 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 3: co conspirators to try to get them to reveal more information. 81 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 3: You have the case in Georgia. There's more baggage to come. 82 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 3: And we all know that because of this baggage, we 83 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 3: can't talk about issues, right, We can't talk about what's 84 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 3: Fitch right in downgrading the United States steps or how 85 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 3: is AI going to impact on every single industry? We 86 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 3: know that. Look, I was on the board of Open 87 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 3: AI where the creators are chatting GPT. Artificial intelligence is 88 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 3: going to upend every single market, not in ten years, 89 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 3: but in two or three years. The Chinese government is 90 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 3: trying to surpass the United States of America as a 91 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 3: global superpower. That's not my opinion, that's what they say 92 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 3: about themselves. We all have the influence of de dollarization 93 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 3: and their attempts to do that. I know different people 94 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 3: are on the fence, but how do we make sure 95 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 3: we prevent that? These are the issues that we find. 96 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 2: I love that because you know, we like talking policy 97 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: here on Bloomberg, and we always try to reserve time 98 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: for that. When you join us as is you know 99 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 2: our effort with every candidate. And before I get a 100 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 2: little bit deeper with that, because I think you're pointing 101 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 2: to a lot of the right topics that Washington can't 102 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 2: get its head around right now, beginning with AI. My goodness, 103 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: if we ever see a bill on artificial intelligence, let's 104 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: have a special about it. But you know, Donald Trump's 105 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 2: talking about you. You see this two hours ago on 106 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: Truth Social Will Hurd. He writes, a former Republican congressman 107 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: who couldn't get elected dog catchers, so he dropped out 108 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: of the race. Constantly on Fox viewing nonsense. He goes 109 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 2: on to say, no wonder Fox's ratings are going down 110 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: the tubes. Did your ears perk up when that happen? 111 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: You know, when the front runner's talking about you, that's 112 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: not a bad thing. 113 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 3: It's not a bad hang you. You know, you're getting 114 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 3: under your skin. And you know I had to remind 115 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 3: him once he called me and tried to get me to, 116 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: you know, get on a bill that was going to 117 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 3: hurt you know, poor people and old folks. It was 118 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 3: going to take ninety billion dollars at a Medicare and Medicaid, 119 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 3: and you know I had to tell him I wasn't there. 120 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 3: And he freaks out and starts yelling. He's like, I 121 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 3: won your district. I was like, no, you didn't. Hillary 122 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 3: Clinton won my district. And you know this notion that look, 123 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 3: the guy is a bully, right and he knows he's 124 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 3: a bully. He's a liar, and he's only running in 125 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 3: order to stay out of prison. And what's even crazier 126 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 3: is that he is using, you know, hard working Americans 127 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 3: dollars to fund his to fund his illegal bills. Right, 128 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 3: He's allegedly a billionaire, but he can't pay his own 129 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 3: legal bills. And so this is the kind of stuff 130 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 3: that people are frustrated with. There's a reason two thirds 131 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 3: of Americans went neither Donald Trump or Joe Biden on 132 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 3: the ballot. And in any one of these charges, and 133 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 3: I think the total charges right when it's like in 134 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 3: the seventies now and and and this is and it's 135 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 3: gonna be more. Any one of these charges is prison time. 136 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: And and that means, you know, Donald Trumps seventy eight 137 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 3: years old, he ain't gonna be able to survive prison. 138 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 3: And and so this is what he cares about, not 139 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 3: the future of the country, not the people that voted 140 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 3: for him, and definitely not not American. So he can 141 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 3: talk mess all he wants, but again, for those that 142 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 3: are listening, if you want to help make sure I 143 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 3: meet those requirements, Hurd from America dot com and you 144 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 3: can help me tell this to his face. 145 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 2: Wow, I can't imagine what it's like to be in 146 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 2: this race right now, or to be even having this 147 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: conversation in every interview that you're doing. Do you believe 148 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: Donald Trump will go to prison? 149 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 3: Well, look, so so the person. I don't know if 150 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 3: you saw Bill Barr's comments about these cases, right, and 151 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: and and Bill is basically like, these things are serious 152 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 3: and and the one I think is the most serious 153 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 3: is the well, the one that's clear is tampering with 154 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 3: evidence in the in the in the national security documents. Right. 155 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 3: But here's what I would say, right, like, look, I'm 156 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 3: not flying around on private planes, right, and I'm I 157 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 3: was on Southwest Airlines coming here to Manchester and people 158 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 3: were giving me the thumbs up, and they're like, hey, 159 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 3: thanks for being honest. And I've been in some I've 160 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 3: been in some some cafes and diners and in places 161 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 3: here in New Hampshire and people are like, hey, We're 162 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 3: glad I'm someone someone's being honest. And look the people 163 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 3: I'm talking to, right, And this is where and I 164 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 3: bet you some of your listeners are these folks. Only 165 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 3: twenty three percent of Americans voting primaries, that's the problem 166 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 3: with our politics. And that's split right down the middle 167 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 3: between Republican and Democrats, and that's why we only have 168 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 3: elected officials speaking to the extreme edges. If more people vote, 169 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 3: if that's seventy seven percent of folks that don't vote 170 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 3: in primaries, act she got involved, then we would have 171 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 3: better options in November, and instead of voting for the 172 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 3: lesser or two equals, we can vote for someone that 173 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 3: we care about. And when you look at the generational 174 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 3: defining challenges that we're facing, we have some serious conversations 175 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 3: that we need to have to ensure that this experiment 176 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 3: called America lasts for another two hundred and forty seven years. 177 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 3: And the only way we're going to solve these challenges 178 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 3: is if we do it together. We're better together and 179 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 3: way more unites us than divides us. And that's what 180 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 3: the kind of leader that we need. And so that's 181 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 3: why it's exciting to be in this race at this 182 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 3: time to draw short contrasts between someone who has only 183 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 3: cared about himself his entire life. Look, I'm the only 184 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 3: one in this race that's been shot at that people 185 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 3: try to have chased or try to blow up, and 186 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:47,719 Speaker 3: that used would not be the case. That used to 187 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 3: be the normal place. But a guy like Donald Trump 188 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 3: has ignored service and tried to get out of service 189 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 3: and use his the silver spoon that he was born 190 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 3: with in order to get out of those things. 191 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 2: Maybe you think he is the the purist, never trumper 192 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: will Hurt. Thank you for joining today. Republican presidential candidate 193 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 2: former congressman from Texas with some very deliberate thoughts about 194 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 2: the former president. We'll see what our panel thinks about 195 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 2: it next. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. 196 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the 197 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 198 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 199 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 200 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 201 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: Assemble our panel following the conversation with Will Hurd and 202 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: everything that surrounds us today in Washington, Genie Shanzano is 203 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 2: back with us. Rick Davis here to Bloomberg Politics contributors. 204 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 2: Genie Will Hurd had a lot to say. There very 205 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 2: few other candidates on the Republican side will say those things. 206 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 2: Maybe Chris Christy would be the exception, But I do 207 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: wonder what the events of today might bring to the 208 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 2: discourse on the campaign trail. Is it more of the same, 209 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: you know? 210 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 4: I think in the short term it is more of 211 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 4: the same. But it is so important that people like 212 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 4: Will Hurd get out there and get their voices heard 213 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 4: like he did today. And I thought he had so 214 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 4: many important things to say, not only his description of 215 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 4: Donald Trump as a bully and a liar, but also 216 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 4: the fact that Donald Trump was very much in his 217 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 4: position in the polls before the twenty sixteen election at 218 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 4: this time, and I thought, really critically the fact that 219 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 4: less than one out of four people vote in primaries, 220 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 4: and that's why they are so focused on moving to 221 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 4: the right, far right, and far left in these primaries. 222 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 4: That's a problem with our system that he points out, 223 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 4: and that's something either increased the vote total, which is 224 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 4: hard to do, or change the way we choose our 225 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 4: presidential nominees. So a lot of things in that interview 226 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 4: you just did with him that I hope people pay 227 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 4: attention to, because while he is low in the polls, 228 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 4: he still has so many important things to say that 229 00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 4: may resonate as we go forward. 230 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 2: Well, Donald Trump says Will Hurd couldn't get elected dogcatcher Rick, 231 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: And I'll bring you to his this event in Iowa 232 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 2: just about a week ago when he said very similar 233 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 2: things to what he said on this program. 234 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 3: Donald Trump is running to stay out of prison. And 235 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 3: if we elect I know, I know, I know, I know, 236 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 3: I know. Listen, I know the truth. The truth is hard. 237 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 3: But if we elect Donald Trump, we are willingly giving 238 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 3: Joe Biden four more years in the White House and 239 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 3: America can't handle that. 240 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 2: Can the campaign handle more? 241 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: Event? 242 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 5: Rick, well, his campaign can. I mean, he is the 243 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 5: truth teller. And you know, I harken back to when 244 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 5: someone asked him on air if he was going to 245 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 5: take the pledge to endorse whoever the Republican nominee is 246 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 5: in order to try and gain access to the stage, 247 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 5: and he said no. He said, I'm not gonna lie 248 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 5: about it. Some candidates will tell you yes, and they'll 249 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 5: never intend to do it. I don't intend to do it, 250 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 5: and I'd rather I'd rather, you know, keep stay honest 251 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 5: then than try to get access to the debate stage. 252 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 5: So he is he is setting a standard that is 253 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 5: going to be very difficult for these other candidates. Who 254 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 5: are not as transparent as he is. And and I 255 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 5: think he is an impact player, right, I mean, like 256 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 5: it's a it's a misnomer to think that anybody knows 257 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 5: who the nominee is going to be today. Obviously Donald 258 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 5: Trump has a sizeable lead on the field. But but 259 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 5: who's going to have an impact in this race? Who's 260 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 5: going to actually potentially, uh create a scenario where where 261 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 5: something changes and I think will hurt Is one of 262 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 5: those guys. He can actually make that happen if he 263 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 5: ever got in a room with Donald Trump to talk 264 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 5: about the state of the nation and and and and 265 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 5: the issues of that people care about. Donald Trump should run, 266 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 5: not walk, to the nearest exit to get away from. 267 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: Then there's Mike Pence, who's kind of turning up the 268 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:05,839 Speaker 2: heat a little bit here. I don't know if you 269 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 2: heard his comments in Indiana yesterday. One of the ideas 270 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 2: coming from the Trump legal team is that the President 271 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 2: didn't want pressure somehow Mike Pence to do away with 272 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 2: this idea of of fake alternate electors. He simply wanted 273 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: to delay the certification, not end it. In Mike Pence 274 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: at a reaction. 275 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 6: It wasn't just that they asked for a pause. The 276 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 6: President specifically asked me on his gaggle of crackpot lawyers, 277 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 6: asked me to literally reject votes, essentially to overturn the election. 278 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 2: This is a little bit of a new side of 279 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 2: Mike Pence. Genie does does it keep progressing in that direction? 280 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 2: He could be as we hear the star witness in 281 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 2: this trial, he is. 282 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 4: He is all over this indictment and he is one 283 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 4: of the very few opponents of Donald Trump in this election, 284 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 4: besides the typical ones that we know about like Christy 285 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 4: and Hurd Hutchinson who came out and had the most 286 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 4: interesting statement because it was the strongest, and he has 287 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 4: really doubled down on that in the last forty eight 288 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 4: plus hours, and so you know, I think Mike Pence 289 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 4: is opening up. Of course, he was tough in his 290 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 4: book as well. I'm not sure how many people read it, 291 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 4: but since this indictment he has been very tough on 292 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 4: Donald Trump, and rightly so. There's a point in this 293 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 4: indictment when they talk about the fact he calls Donald 294 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 4: Trump to say Mary Christmas, and Donald Trump immediately pivots 295 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty to saying you've got to do this 296 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 4: on January sixth, which which Pence obviously says he can't do. So, 297 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 4: you know, it's quite striking how much this indictment is 298 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 4: about him. And of course we all know that his 299 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 4: family and he were threatened pretty severely on January sixth 300 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 4: by the people who were broken to the Capitol. 301 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 2: Mike Penn seems to think that he's got a calling here, 302 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 2: you know, the answering, a divine calling. Rick, that's just 303 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: his personality. Will he feel that way when it comes 304 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: to testify, Yeah, he'll. 305 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 5: Do is do Uh. He's a patriot, uh uh. And 306 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 5: and I think that when he uh agreed to uh 307 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 5: go and testify uh to the grand jury, which is 308 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 5: a historic event for any former vice president uh to 309 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 5: do that, he knew what the consequences of that would be. 310 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 5: He knew that if he did that and there was 311 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 5: ultimately an indictment, there would be a trial and his 312 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 5: presence would be known. And so you know, we've been 313 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 5: talking about this a little bit this week. I can't 314 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 5: imagine anybody else who's more directly impacted by this this 315 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 5: indictment other than Donald Trump then than than Mike Pence. 316 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 5: And what's interesting is it looks like it's kind of 317 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 5: unleashed him. I mean, all of a sudden, he is 318 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 5: more aggressive on the stump. 319 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 6: Uh. 320 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 5: You know, his press in the last two days has 321 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 5: been phenomenal. And and not just because you know, he's 322 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 5: sort of telling truth to power about Donald Trump and 323 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 5: and the crackpot lawyers uh that were given him at advice, 324 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 5: but like he just seems to be a different candidate overall. 325 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 5: I mean, he's got sort of a hop and a step, 326 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 5: and sometimes these things can bring out the best in people. 327 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 2: Spoke with Nick Ackerman yesterday, the former Watergate prosecutor, who 328 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 2: talked about timeline here as we sort of argue over 329 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 2: all these different trial dates and how they might fit 330 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: and where he's going to be. 331 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: This is Ackerman's take. 332 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 7: But I think what they're going to try and do 333 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 7: is get this case to trial in January or February 334 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 7: of next year, prior to the case that scheduled in 335 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 7: New York with the Manhattan DA, and prior to the 336 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 7: time that the classified document case is scheduled in May in. 337 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: Miami January or February. 338 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: Genie, what does that do to the campaign that's Iowa 339 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 2: and New Hampshire. 340 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 4: Absolutely and we're going to see Trump apparently if that 341 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 4: does occur, jetting back and forth between you know, rallies 342 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 4: and court, it's just hard to imagine. And you know, 343 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 4: up here in New York we are hearing Alvin Bragg 344 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 4: say publicly that he would be willing to move, potentially 345 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 4: move the March trial in New York, you know, to 346 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 4: fit this in. And certainly that would be allowed. But 347 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 4: obviously Trump's lawyers are going to do everything they can 348 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 4: to push this back. And I would also just add, 349 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 4: you know, for Republicans, the trial that really is the 350 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 4: most impactful still is the document's case. So there is 351 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 4: a school of thought that they would be better off 352 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 4: going with that one first, although it would be harder 353 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 4: to because it deals with national security documents. So there's 354 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 4: a plus of minus. 355 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 2: Here might seem like a crazy question, Rick, but in 356 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 2: our minute left here, how does he stay in the 357 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 2: race if that trial's beginning while the early states Iowa, 358 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 2: New Hampshire, South Carolina are voting. 359 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 5: You know, look, I mean he's a known entity, right, 360 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 5: I mean the value of him traveling to those places 361 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 5: is less for it than anybody else. And so he 362 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 5: believes that these cases are actually helping him win, and 363 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 5: there's some evidence that they have improved as standing and 364 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 5: increased his fundraising. And so for him, this is just 365 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 5: another campaign. Stop sitting behind the table in front of 366 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 5: a judge in a courtroom. 367 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 2: So this is kind of fuel for the campaign. You 368 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 2: almost wonder what happens when all the legal exercises are done, Genie. 369 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 2: But then again, we might all be dead by them. 370 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 4: Oh, let's hope not. But you know, it is shocking. 371 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 4: I mean, he'll we'll just be following him around as 372 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 4: he moves back and forth between these Apparently it's a 373 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,959 Speaker 4: new way of campaigning in the United States. 374 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 2: Boy boy, quite the travel budget for a lot of 375 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 2: news organizations. Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis stay with us 376 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributors with great analysis. 377 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 378 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 379 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on 380 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcast. 381 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 2: Vice President Kamala Harris will not be debating Ron DeSantis 382 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: anytime soon, at least not over Florida's public school curriculum. 383 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 2: She's rejected the governor's offer to debate the state's guidelines 384 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 2: on teaching African American history. Following you might remember Harris's 385 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 2: recent trip to Florida just to call him out for 386 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 2: suggesting that slaves develop skills quote that could be applied 387 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 2: for their personal benefit unquote. 388 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: Here she is saying, no, there is. 389 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 8: No roundtable, no lecture, no invitation. We will accept to 390 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 8: debate an undeniable fact. There were no redeeming qualities of slavery. 391 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 2: Okay, so that's not going to happen. 392 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: Nobody really thought it would. 393 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 2: But California Governor Gavin Newsom wants that debate. And guess what. 394 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 2: Ron de Santa says he's in setting up a pay 395 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 2: per view event for the ages. Actually it'll be on 396 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 2: Fox as the request by a DeSantis called for or 397 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 2: Gaven Newsome brothers called for Sean Hannity to serve as 398 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 2: the loan moderator for what will be a ninety minute 399 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 2: debate that will not include an audience that will air live. 400 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,479 Speaker 2: We assemble the panel for their thoughts on this. Rick 401 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: Davis and Genie Shanzino, Rick, does this actually happen? 402 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 3: Yeah? 403 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 5: I think so, you know, no telling what's going to 404 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 5: happen right now, and then it's a long time away, 405 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 5: and who knows, you know what Gavin Newsom's really iron here, 406 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 5: whether it's a campaign for president or a debate with DeSantis. 407 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 5: But look, I think it's smart on both their sides. 408 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 5: We're talking about it today, They're going to get all 409 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 5: kinds of new coverage and by then, you know, DeSantis 410 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 5: will pretty much know where he is in this race 411 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 5: and can modulate, you know, whatever he says at the time. 412 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 5: And they're both egotistical enough to think that they can 413 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 5: get one up on each other. And that's why Hannity 414 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 5: probably has figured out that it's all good for his 415 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 5: brand too. So let's all go. I wish it'd be 416 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 5: going to be a an audience for that. 417 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 2: I'm all in November eighth or tenth of the proposed 418 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 2: dates here, Genie, what's the motivation? Obviously, Ron DeSantis is 419 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 2: doing a little chest thumping here. He's running for president. 420 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 2: What's Gavin Newsom doing now? 421 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 4: Is that before or after Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk? 422 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 3: Who's the question? 423 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: Think about that as a double feature. I mean, that's 424 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:23,719 Speaker 2: a million dollar idea. 425 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 4: I love it, you know, I think we do know 426 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 4: that many even Democrats, have said that Gavin Newsom's interview 427 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 4: on Sean Hannity not that long ago, was the best 428 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 4: defense they have seen of the Biden administration in a 429 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 4: long time. And so you know, he is, to that estimation, 430 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 4: a good surrogate for Joe Biden. But of course his 431 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 4: interest is far more about Gavin Newsom, and I think 432 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 4: what he gets out of there is he gets coverage, 433 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 4: he gets pressed, as Rick was just talking about, he 434 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 4: gets people talking about him. He also has a pretty 435 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 4: good relationship so far with Sean Nity, and he is 436 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 4: able to make his points. I was struck by his 437 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 4: comments because I did watch it about the issue of 438 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 4: homelessness in California, which is pretty hard to defend, but 439 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 4: he did a fairly good job on that. So I 440 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 4: think for him, he thinks this is a win win, 441 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 4: and he's gonna, you know, certainly be asking for more. 442 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 2: Well, we're talking debates, how about real debates like the 443 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 2: one coming up in Milwaukee and then the one that follows. 444 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 2: Obviously we're going to get a whole bunch of RNC 445 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 2: debates here between now and Iowa, between now and the 446 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 2: time that we have a nominee. 447 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: For that matter. 448 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 2: And Rick, I wonder your thoughts on updated criteria from 449 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 2: the RNC is going to make it even harder to 450 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 2: get on stage for the second debate. There seems to 451 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,959 Speaker 2: be a very deliberate effort here to winn oh this 452 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 2: field early. 453 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: What do you make of it? 454 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, certainly, I think that can be. The only conclusion 455 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 5: that you make, Joe, is that they're trying to create 456 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 5: a smaller field. I'm not sure that's in concert, by 457 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 5: the way, with what Donald Trump would prefer. But the idea, 458 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 5: now that the number of donors is going to go 459 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 5: from thirty to fifty thousand, that you've got like more pulling, 460 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 5: you have to increase the amount that you're pulling in 461 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 5: both state and national polls. Honestly, what I don't really 462 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 5: understand is why the RNC thinks this is good to 463 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 5: produce a healthy candidate. You know, these candidates right now 464 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 5: are pouring money into the donor requirement, some paying twenty 465 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 5: dollars for every dollar they make. Do you think that 466 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 5: those twenty nineteen dollars, you know, going back to donors 467 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 5: is somehow going to be better for the campaign. I mean, 468 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 5: the rnc's job is to produce healthy candidates. That means 469 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 5: candidates with money in the bag not spending it to 470 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 5: get on a stage. And so honestly, I think this 471 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 5: whole thing is just going to go down in history 472 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 5: as a way of just blowing out the field so 473 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 5: that I guess they can have somebody not rock the 474 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 5: boat later on in the prose. 475 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 2: This is brutal genie. This is September twenty seven. It'll 476 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 2: be at the Reagan Library in the Semi Valley. Candidates 477 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: will need to have a minimum fifty thousand unique donors, 478 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 2: including two hundred donors in twenty states or more each 479 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 2: according to reporting that we're seeing this week, what's the 480 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 2: guy like Will Hurd gonna do? 481 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 4: That's right. I was just going to say, it keeps 482 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 4: really potentially good candidates off of the debate stage. And 483 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 4: we all know that the debates are one time in 484 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 4: which we get to see everybody there and somebody could 485 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 4: have a standout performance that night. And let's not also 486 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 4: forget that this is months before they vote in Iowa 487 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 4: and New Hampshire, and everything we see in the polls 488 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 4: today can change with a good performance. And one of 489 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 4: those early states that can catapult somebody out of the 490 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 4: early states into the next state and increase their donations 491 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 4: and poll numbers. You know, if you rob even the 492 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 4: early state voters of that potential of seeing people like 493 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 4: that on the debate stage, I think it's a problem. 494 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 4: I'm not a fan of this. I understand they want 495 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 4: to winnow the field, but this seems really early and 496 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 4: really hard to do that to people who might be 497 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 4: attractive to voters who aren't paying attention yet. 498 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 2: Well, I guess the answers our question about whether they're 499 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 2: going to loosen requirements for the first debate. Rick, what 500 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 2: about the pledge that that that's one that still needs 501 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 2: to be addressed. 502 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, the RNC is not going to address it. 503 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 5: They've been very clear that everyone's got to take a pledge, 504 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 5: and and and right now, I mean Chris Christie has said, oh, 505 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 5: you know, I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna I'm 506 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 5: not gonna tell you the truth. I'm gonna say yes, 507 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 5: I'll pledge, and then not do it, and and and 508 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 5: right to their face. I like, I wonder what the 509 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 5: phone call was like from the chairman of the r 510 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 5: n C. You know, you can't lie to us and 511 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 5: say you're lying to us and not think that we're 512 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 5: gonna honor that pledge. I mean, honestly, this thing is 513 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 5: turned into a joke, and if the RNC wants to 514 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 5: maintain their stature as a major party, this isn't the 515 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 5: way to go about. 516 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 2: That's from Rick Davis, everybody, Republicans Strategy, just Bloomberg Politics contributor, 517 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 2: along with Genie Shanzano, Bloomberg Politics contributor, Democratic Analysts, our 518 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 2: signature panel. 519 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to the Sound On podcast. 520 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 521 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 2: and anywhere else you get your podcasts, and you can 522 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 2: find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one 523 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 2: pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.