WEBVTT - 'Astonishing' Astra Vaccine Reduces Asymptomatic Cases 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:04.120 Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, along 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:06.240 with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:10.400 we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:13.560 along with essential market moving news. Kind of Bloomberg Markets 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.000 Podcast on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:21.480 and on Bloomberg dot com. We have some breaking vaccine news. 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:26.119 The Astro Oxford vaccine efficacy has been confirmed now in 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:30.240 peer reviewed data. Apparently the Astro Oxford vaccine prevents the 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.479 worst COVID symptoms in this particular study. It's effective, but 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:38.800 it does leave questions in older ages. This is all 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:43.080 according to a peer review study at ten hospitalization cases 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.280 seen in the trial. All occurred among those given a placebo. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:48.199 Let's bring in somebody who knows a little bit more 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.320 about the background to this particular vaccine and has been 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.840 looking at the results and is looking at these headlines 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.520 as they come out. Now. Michelle Court has Health science 0:00:56.560 --> 0:01:01.120 and medical technology reporter for Bloomberg. So Michelle, this is good, 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:03.480 but rossively speaking, is it as good as the other 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.080 vaccine news we've been hearing? You know, Vanni is a 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.039 great question, and it actually is not appearing to be 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:14.640 as effective as the Visor and Maderna trials. That being said, 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:16.880 there was a little bit of a hiccup with this trial. 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:19.280 In fact, there were there were a couple which is 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.479 really to be expected given the pace of development here. 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.520 They originally were only going to be using one dose 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.119 of the vaccine. Then they realized it would be more 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.800 effective if they did too, so they added that second 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:33.520 dose in later. And of course there was an issue 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:35.720 where some of the patients or some of the volunteers 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.880 in the trial got actually half of the dose in 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.760 that first injection than they were expected to get, and 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:47.400 that unexpectedly turned out to be much more effective vaccination 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:51.560 efficacy rate with that smaller first dose with only a 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.559 you know, six efficacy race in the people who got 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.480 both full doses. So that's unexpected. They're going to have 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.960 to be more research here. So Michelle, kind of have 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.960 we got anywhere clarity on that, uh, you know, that 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.360 half dose issue that we learned about a couple of 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:10.440 weeks ago that seemed to surprise a lot of people 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:15.320 in the community, right, it is inexplicable. I mean, we 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:18.280 do know that the people who got that half does 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.359 were actually a younger group of patients, and so they 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:25.040 are less likely to get severe disease, they're less likely 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:27.639 to become infected. So there could be some explanation that 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.239 happening there, but indeed we don't exactly know what's going 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:33.280 on here. The company has said that they do plan 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.240 to do another trial to look at this specific effect. 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:38.959 That should not take as long to do because you're 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.760 just looking at how the body responds to the vaccine, 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:43.799 so we should be able to get through that pretty quickly. 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.480 But even when you're looking at the higher efficuity rates, 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.560 it's not quite reaching than levels that we're seeing with 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.120 sisor in the journal. It does appear that less is 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.320 more in this case, but that may not be the 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.920 full story. What does Astra do next? I mean, is 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.360 this good enough data to release the vaccine into the 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.880 wild as Fiser has already done, or do they have 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.960 to do more well. They have said that they're going 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.800 to be doing more as well, and of course the 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:10.680 fact is is that we're not going to have enough 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:14.480 vaccine to protect the entire world for some time to come. 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.640 So when you're looking at an epicacy rate with this 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.800 lower first dose, I mean that is still extraordinary. It 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.960 is absolutely unbelievable that they were able to get this effect. 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.880 This trial was done in some very high risk areas. 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:30.560 A lot of these patients were in Brazil, which is 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.920 having a massive outbreak, and the idea that you can 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.560 be getting this vaccine to people across the world who 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.680 would otherwise have no no protection against the virus is 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:45.920 really breath taking. Is you can't and you can't overestimate 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.400 how important it is. It is really important to be 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:53.120 getting all of these vaccines. Yeah, So Michelle, it seems 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.920 like again, you know, we were started this process when 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.440 we started talking about vaccines and we were kind of 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.160 told that if you get a fifty your efficacy rate, uh, 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.320 that's good. And obviously now we're getting much much higher rates. 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:07.600 So it seems to me that while the astro Zenka 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:10.800 perhaps is not on par with some of its competitors 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.080 or peers, it's still very good. Is that the expectation 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.560 that this is still a good uh number. It is 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:21.080 a good uh, it's good science, it's a good the vaccine, 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.839 and that it will be effective in the marketplace. Absolutely 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.200 it is. It's an astonishing vaccine. We're even seeing you know, 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:30.880 some some data coming out of this trial that we 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.560 haven't seen as much with the other trials. For example, 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.320 we know that the astro vaccine is preventing asymptomatic cases. 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.240 So for people who didn't show any signs or symptoms 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.520 of the disease but might still be infected, this vaccine 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.760 is actually protecting against that. That's very important to know 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:52.719 that there's not some latent level of vaccine circulating among 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.159 the people who got this vaccine. And you have to 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:59.240 remember the numbers are astonishing in this low dose group 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.880 of people. There were seven cases out of over a 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.440 thousand people who were treated with the vaccine, and that's 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.080 just amazing to think that you can get that kind 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.880 of efficacy, even if it's not, you know, in it. 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:17.040 In comparison, there was one in the Fiser trial. But still, 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.800 and we're talking about seven people. One people, it's a 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.880 handful of people. It's remarkable, no matter which way you 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.760 look at Yeah, that's amazing. Also, the fact that you 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.280 can prevent it, you know, in people who might otherwise 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.600 be asymptomatic, that's really important because it's the people who 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:33.640 don't have it that are that that you don't know, 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:35.320 have a that are dangerous. I mean, if somebody is 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:37.120 coughing in front of you, you're obviously not going to, 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.680 you know, go near them. But if there's somebody looking 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.400 completely healthy who may have the virus, you wouldn't know 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:46.800 that necessarily. So how is this different to the m 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:52.560 r N A platform. How are Oxford and Astra approaching 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:56.480 this differently to say Fiser and the others. Right, Well, 0:05:56.520 --> 0:06:00.440 there are different technologies. The m RNA. Uh, the RNA 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.960 vaccines are brand new. There are no vaccines like this 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.160 out there in the world. This will be the first 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:10.520 vaccine using this technology ever developed. It is again, I mean, 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.159 it keeps staying remarkable, but it's just like, how do 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:15.159 you do that. It's a vaccine that we've never even 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:16.919 tried before, and they're like, well, let's try it, and 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.080 not only let's try it, but in less than ten months, 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.039 we're going to start from zero and actually get it 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.839 into people's arms. Um. The way that vaccine works is 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.320 it actually delivers a little bit of the genetic seapoint, 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:31.280 so yoursels are producing of the like protein showing your 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:33.839 immune system what they should be going after. The after 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.000 vaccine is a little bit different. It actually developed it 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:42.239 delivers the virus itself to inactivated version of it into 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.080 the cells themselves, and so then they are producing that 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.000 protein and so they know what to go after. It's 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:51.599 a different approach the same idea in terms of exposing 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:53.760 the immune system to the virus so that it will 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.240 know what to look at. The after vaccine will be 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.159 easier to deliver. It doesn't require this super cold gain 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.840 deliver a system that the Fiser and Maderna vaccines do need. 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.800 So there are different different approaches here. Each one has 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:10.640 different benefits and risks. You know, if you are a 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.280 country that is very hot that doesn't have great consistent electricity, 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.440 you're probably not going to want the Visor and Maderna 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.320 vaccine anyway, you might not have the technology to deliver that. 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.920 So having the ASTRA version would be helpful for these areas. 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.760 And Michelle, what do we know about the timing of 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.680 getting approval for this vaccine across the world. We're seeing 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:32.880 it almost daily, including today with the FDA and and 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:37.280 the Fiser news. What do we know about the ASTRA timeline. Well, 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.160 it's interesting because ASTRA was on hold longer in the 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:45.280 US than it was in other places, specifically in Europe 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.200 that is very cautious when it comes to reviewing all 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.600 of these vaccines, making sure that they're dotting every ion 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.280 cross in every two So when it looks like for 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:57.400 the US, ASTRA is going to be a wild delayed 0:07:57.480 --> 0:07:59.320 here is probably going to take a you know, a 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.000 couple of months at least to get this additional trial 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:05.360 underway and to figure out exactly where we're going. Certainly 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.480 there are other countries where we will most likely see 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.960 AFTRA going much more quickly and getting their vaccine onto 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:15.280 the market in other areas more quickly. That could happen 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.760 within the next month or two. Michelle, this idea that 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.240 was out that the Trump administration didn't put in a 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:26.960 big enough order with Fiser, how is that being received? Well. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.200 The Trump administration is saying that they have ordered enough 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:34.720 vaccine to cover the entire US population. Anybody who's interested 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.480 in getting vaccinated should be able to have access to 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:42.080 that by the end of the summer. What their approach was, 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:46.080 they were ordering a hundred million doses from each of 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.640 the different vaccine companies so that they would be broadening 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.040 out their exposure level. So if one doesn't work, then 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.439 they haven't already purchased an awful lot of that and 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.760 and not enough of something else, so they didn't broadly, 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.880 you know, order six hundred million doses across various vaccines. 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.200 Of course, now we know that there's one or two 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.400 that are highly effective, you want to get all of 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.240 that as much as you possibly can. And as you 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:14.040 point out, they have already sold that vaccine to other places, 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:16.520 so it's going to be yet until the summer before 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.120 they can start delivering more of those doses to the 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.800 US government. We'll have to see if we if we're 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.280 going to need those doses or not. At this point, 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.760 we're still getting results from the other vaccine manufacturers, and 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.559 there could be additional benefits. Maybe you only need one 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:34.160 shot from some of these vaccines. Those side effects they're 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.000 very mild, but they do occur, and they occur in 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.679 more than half of people in some cases. So there 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.640 are other vaccines that are being developed still that might 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.400 have less of those sort of issues, or maybe they're 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.560 more effective than older people. So there's still details to 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.640 be teased out here. It does look like, you know, 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:53.920 a little bit of a setback that the US isn't 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.360 going to get as much of this first sisor vaccine 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.760 as they want, but ultimately it's going to be hard 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:00.599 to get it into everybody, and so we have to 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.240 see how it plays out. Michelle, thank you so much 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.360 for joining us. We really appreciate your reporting there. Michelle Cortez, 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:13.240 Health science and medical technology reporter for Bloomberg News. Let's 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.000 move to Tesla. Paul, you mentioned it earlier on speaking 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.200 with Dave Wilson. It's up at six ninety five now, 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.280 and you know, it just continues to move on up. 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:24.800 It's going to sell shares as the proceeds of up 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:26.800 to five billion dollars. That just doesn't seem to be 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.880 any stopping the investors in this company. Let's bring in 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:35.080 Don Eves of web Bush, analyst on Tesla. So Don 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.760 talk to us about this share price isn't warranted? Should 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.320 we throw another five billion dollars at this company? Look, 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:45.319 it's a great question. I mean, we are books is 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.640 a thousand dollars and we continue to view this right 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:53.240 now as just a transformational market in terms of ev demand. 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.079 And if you look at evening market right now, Houselow's 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.680 World and everyone else, Pam Rent and I think that's 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:01.480 when that's what they're looking at they're looking at what 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.079 this market is going to be the next three to 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:07.439 four years. Obviously stock to continue to devout, but in 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.120 terms of playing the E V space when you look 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.199 out and I think that right now is why this 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.920 stock continues to move higher. They're just given the supply demand. 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.160 I'm sure you d please, so Dan, give us a 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.720 sense here of use of proceeds. Here is just simply 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.600 let's shore up the balance sheet, raised capital when we can, 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:30.000 not necessarily when we need it. But that's exactly a pole. 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.079 I mean, this is a twelve billion in countering in 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.680 terms of what they have raised. Go back a year ago, 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.520 that was the biggest Bara thesis in terms of shoring 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.719 up the balance sheet. They were not profitable. Now you've 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.000 got profitability. They're hitting when the iron is hot in 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.920 terms of raising capital, and it really throws that bare 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.200 thesis out the window. And naturally the key when you 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.600 go forward in terms of the tests of story. Now 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:59.040 you don't have any baluncari issues. So in until he 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.199 spends it, I mean, he seems to have an unlimited 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:04.439 ability to spend the money that he gets in so 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.439 how for how long will there be no balancy to 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:13.320 issues even with capital deployment in Berwin as well as 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.400 in Austin. I mean this really shures him up for 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.920 the next few years in terms of those capital issues. Now, investors, 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.280 you and is what's the growth opportunity going forward? And 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:26.600 right now if you look at ev especially in China, 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.560 you know, test has really seen an inflection of them 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.720 and profitable. That speaks of the S and P five 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:37.360 hundred inclusion, which is different from a year ago. Hey, Dan, 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.320 give us a censor. Let's take a step back here. 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.760 It just feels like we're starting to hear more and 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:47.199 more out of the traditional automakers in terms of maybe 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:52.360 some product introductions, some ev products in particular, How do 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:56.959 you think the traditional auto manufacturers over the next five 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.760 years are going to move on e V And how 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.199 do you think that to what extent is at a 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.559 risk to Tesla? Well, I think if you look at 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.959 GM spending twenty billion the next five years on EVY, 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.240 and I think it speaks to what's happening, is this 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:18.000 is really gonna be Today it's three overall automotive sales worldwide. 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:19.880 I think that goes at ten percent by two thou 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.120 I think traditional automakers of you and this, you're gonna 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.360 have tax incentives. Of course, you have it in Europe. 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:30.079 I think with the Biden administration doubling down tax incentives 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:34.720 in the US, and ultimately from a multiple perspective, remember, 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.559 Tesla doesn't get treated as an automotive company. It's a 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:42.360 technology disruptive technology means and I think automotives and the boards. 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:45.560 They also recognize that. More and more success on evy, 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.920 you can start to see names like GM Forward get 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.319 rerated on that success. A couple of questions done you 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.719 don't mind. One is you've ben underperformer on Nicolas. You 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.480 obviously feel like that's a whole different type of story. 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.320 And the similarities that we see between the Nicolas story 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.200 and the Tesla story really maybe we shouldn't be seeing them. 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.000 So I want to ask you about that. I also 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:07.960 want to ask you if elon Muska is spread too 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.920 thin and white people have stopped complaining about that. They 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:12.920 used to complain about that when it came to Dr 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.280 Dorsey all the time. Yeah. In terms of Nicol, I mean, 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.280 our cautious stands has been just some of the company's 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:23.080 specific issues going on, you know, especially with GM and 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.840 others I do think that they will start to clear 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.600 over the next three to six months. But that's why 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.160 we've been more cautious on Nicola, even though they still 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.320 have great prototype and opportunity. I think, look, it's not 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:38.480 a campaign every company with the same brush. And I 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.080 think in terms of e V, you know, going to 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.800 to the Musk question, I mean, he's kind of had 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:48.360 that red tape. He's been able to do Superman like things, 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:50.760 not just with Tessa, but of course with SpaceX, and 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.160 I think that's not as much of a concern for 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:58.000 investors just given what you've seen, more maturity, more profitability. 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:02.680 They've scaled across US the globe and must continue to 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:05.840 kind of navigate, as well as a strong bene that 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:11.440 they've started to develop over ex three months. So you know, 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.560 it's interesting down as we think about the test of story, 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.480 it's always just what's the next catalyst? What's the next catalyst? 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:18.640 You know, um, is it to take a look at 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:20.520 the test of story? Is that new products? Is that 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:24.160 manufacturing numbers? What investors really focusing on in terms of 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:28.480 metrics these days? Yeah, metrics right now, leaves are focused 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:30.920 on China. I'm not think China could be worth a 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.520 hundred hours per share. That's the focus looking at what 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.400 we see. We've always seen strength in terms of this 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:39.920 quarter going into next year. You know, can they get 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:44.040 the two hundred fifty thousand units potentially in China from 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.600 one fifty first year out, That's gonna be the key. 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:48.840 And then it's the drum roll to the cyber truck. 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.360 I mean, that's gonna be the next, you know, really 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.920 potential game changer model. And you're seeing that pickup truck market. 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.760 It's not just test, it's for GM now obviously Rivian. 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.600 You know, that's a whole another opportunity in terms of 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:03.760 easy and it speaks to what you're seeing in these 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.360 stocks not just in the US, but even in China 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.040 and Neo and others. Just you know, really in the 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:13.800 early days of this market breaking out, what's your your 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:17.000 favorite company or your most ferry company. I suppose in 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.480 your coverage universe you cover a lot of companies that 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.040 are relevant to the current period, including docu sign and 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.640 companies like that. Yeah, with doctor Sign has been our 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.480 favorite work from home name along with z Scale. I 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.160 think you've got to play cloud and cyber securities core themes, 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.080 and there are favorite large cap continues to be Apple, 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.960 I think going into a supercycle, demand looks very strong 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.880 going into next year, and that continues to be our 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.120 favorite large company. And along with Microsoft to play the cloud, 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.200 and those are the keys cloud, cyber security and these 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.440 large tech names. We still think tex Stox a year 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.760 from now or thirty percent higher. Dan Apples had a 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.080 bunch of news out today, some new products and headphones, 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.760 some chips. What's the takeaway from what you've heard from 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.720 Apple over the last twenty four hours. Yeah, it's just 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.960 further solidifying not just the supercycle in terms of iPhone, 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.800 but the broader products cycle that's happened across Max, across 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.280 air pods. I mean, we think air pods this year 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:17.600 ninety million units sold, that's up from sixty million a 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:19.679 year ago. That's gonna be five percent of South. So 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.760 when you're starting to seek not just on services, which 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:25.120 is a big part of the re rating, but Apple 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.479 right now is in the biggest product cycle, not just 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.200 an iPhone, but if you could cross the board billion, 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.280 it's history, and I think that speaks to why this 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.040 stock has a lot more fuel on the engine. You know, 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.680 right now we see hundred fifty price target. I think 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:43.320 potentially bull Case could start to get you towards two hundred. Dan. 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.040 Thanks as always, we like to just kind of go 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.359 across the board tech with you, and you're always able 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:52.120 to give us some great insights. Dan i'ves Managing director 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.520 Equity Research web Bush Securities giving his thoughts on Tesla, 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.200 Apple and some of the stay at home stocks. Dan 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.760 I was a big, big ball on technology. He's been 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.280 absolutely on top of these names, and he's been absolutely 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:10.040 right writing this technology ballmarket that we've seen really since 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.359 uh the end of the financial crisis isn't really come 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:14.960 into play really just over the last twelve months as well, 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:19.480 So we appreciate dance thoughts. Let's bring in Daniel Master, 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:22.040 who is chairman of coin Shares Group at one point 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.760 eight billion dollar platform and as you can imagine, how's 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.320 a little bit to do with cryptocurrency. So Danny, thank 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.679 you for joining. Very happy to have you chat with us. 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.720 I'm very interested in coin shares and how it inhabits 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.879 the ecosystem that is crypto and cryptocurrencies and platforms. Can 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:44.040 you explain a little bit about it to us? Yeah, um, 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:49.080 coin shares, we make it easy for institutions and other 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:53.240 investors to own bitcoin. Um. We see this demand reflected 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.840 in our a U M the figures which have been 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:00.000 rising as you just mentioned. UM. The second thing we've 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.719 do as we provide liquidity. We've done about eight billion 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.720 dollars in cryptocurrency trading volume this year, which is up 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:11.639 about four times on last. And we're helping to build 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:17.640 and shape the infrastructure of the cryptocurrency ecosystem with other 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:22.320 global banks like Namura creating products, investing in innovative companies, 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.399 and building this new financial system. So, Danny, give us 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:28.080 a sense of kind of what you're seeing just in 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:33.840 the marketplace as to the adoption of just cryptocurrencies in general. 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.480 We hear a lot about fintech, a lot about cryptocurrencies, 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.200 but give me some sense of the applications you're seeing 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:43.280 out there in the marketplace. Well, that's one of the 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:47.119 most fascinating aspects of my job day to day. I 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:51.240 think we've think back to in the last peak cycle 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:55.480 of crypto prices, one of the criticisms, which I think 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.880 was valid, was that not much of the infrastructure had 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.920 been built, not much of the software and new applications 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:06.000 had been developed. But now We're seeing some fantastic companies, 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:11.000 companies like unite Swap, companies like Compound Finance, d y 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:15.320 p X, Leverage and many other names who are delivering 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:21.320 essentially banking services. They're borrowing, lending, hypoblication, trading, custody and 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:27.560 derivatives all on the blockchain. So where do you fit 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.280 into that, Danny, I mean coin shares. You're not a 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:35.439 You're not a currency, right, You're a platform. Yeah, I 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:39.320 mean we we we issue eight securities that list on 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:43.280 nasdaimexans dot com. This makes it easy to buy and 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:48.520 own cryptocountcy exposure through your normal bank of broker um. 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.280 That's a big part of our business. We are investors 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:56.359 in early stage equity for companies in the ecosystem that 0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:02.800 are building exchanges, data companies, wallets, lock chains. We have 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:06.040 produced a gold back to Swiss gold back to stable 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:10.760 coin which is issued across Europe. And we're also put 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.760 forward a very interesting indexation strategy called the coin Shares 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:19.080 Gold and Cryptocurrency Index, which pairs gold and a basket 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:23.240 of cryptocurrency in a risk managed way for institutional investors. 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:26.359 So we do a number of things well, Daniel, just 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:29.639 on my blueber terminal. Here I kicked in xpt U 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:34.399 s D the bitcoin ticker and what a chart that is. 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:39.800 Give us your thoughts on bitcoin. The mood is electric. 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:45.480 At the momentum, we've seen a transformation due to COVID. 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:49.040 Bitcoin was created as a reaction to the twenty oh 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:54.000 a quantitative easy program. Obviously with a situation we've all 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:58.360 been facing in the last nine ten months, this quantitative 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:03.240 easing h end has only magnified probably three or four folds. 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.880 So at the moment the markets driven by the narrative 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:12.520 for inflation resistance investments, it's driven by digitization. Bitcoin is 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.520 a store of digital value which people want. And interestingly, 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:22.000 investors are becoming less spooked by the characteristic volatility of bitcoin, 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:26.320