1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, Sophia Bush here. Welcome to work in progress, 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: where I talked to people who inspire me about how 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: they got to where they are and where they think 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: they're still going. Hello everyone, I am so thrilled to 5 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: introduce you all to my guest today, the incredibly insightful, thoughtful, 6 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: and multi talented Chris Meyer. Chris is a former filmmaker 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: and a funeral homeowner, a writer, an entrepreneur, and a 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: licensed New York State attorney who clearly has had a 9 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: fascinating life path. Chris graduated from both Brandeis University and 10 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: Vermont Law School, where he earned a j d And 11 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,959 Speaker 1: a Master as an environmental law and policy. However, he'd 12 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: always dreamed of making films, so Chris began his career 13 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: by writing, directing, and producing a lot by film called 14 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: Black Is Weight. After realizing that making a living as 15 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: a filmmaker came with tremendous challenges, to say the least, 16 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: he took an opportunity in the funeral home industry and 17 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: went on to own and operate multiple funeral homes. Pretty 18 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: big twist. Right After years spent in the funeral home industry, 19 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: Chris was inspired to write his first book based on 20 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: everything that he had learned watching families go through some 21 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: of their most vulnerable moments. It's called Life and Twenty 22 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: Lessons What a Funeral Guy Discovered about Life from Death. 23 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: It's an introspective, heartwarming nonfiction story about love and loss 24 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: and living our best lives from the perspective of a 25 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: man who was constantly surrounded by death. Chris went on 26 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: to write a second recently published novel called The Wood, 27 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: a raw and powerful portrait of the inner workings of 28 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: the filmmaking industry. And in addition to his two successful novels, 29 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: Chris is also a tech executive, most recently having built 30 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: fun and Moving dot com, the world's largest exercise platform 31 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: for lively adults over sixty. In my conversation with Chris, 32 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: we discussed his early years growing up in New York, 33 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: his less than traditional career path, his debut film, the 34 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: experience he had building a life in Los Angeles, how 35 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: he knew he was ready to make a change, what 36 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: he learned from running funeral homes, how this pivot led 37 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: him back to writing, and what it was like to 38 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,839 Speaker 1: release his first novel, and of course so much more 39 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: enjoy So, before we get into how you wound up 40 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: writing a book about how to live from from lessons 41 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: on how people were dying. I want to go back. 42 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: I always like to ask my guests about where things 43 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: started for them. So where where did you grow up? 44 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: What was what was ten year old Chris into? Yeah, 45 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: so that's I grew up in Westchester County, New York, 46 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: oddly enough, a town called Pleasantville, if you can believe that. 47 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: And it was. It was sort of an idyllic childhood, 48 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: about thirty five miles north of New York City suburbia. 49 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: A lot of men rode the train into New York City, 50 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: and ten year old Crisp just sports and loved. I 51 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: was the youngest of three brothers and just loved my family, 52 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: always have and had a great mom and dad. Who 53 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: you know. I just did the regular things like Little 54 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: League and boy Scouts and and that kind of thing. 55 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: So very idyllic childhood. I'm older than you, guys, so 56 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: I was more of a child of the seventies. And 57 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: it was riding bikes around the neighborhood. It was the 58 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: ice cream truck, the good humor man, it was catching fireflies. 59 00:03:57,960 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: You know. It was really I mean, it sounds sad 60 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: be But that was the childhood, um, and it was 61 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: pretty wonderful and I was very very lucky. Yeah, it was, 62 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: it was. It was a great childhood. That's so lovely. 63 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: What what what's the dynamic in a household with three boys? 64 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: You know? Were you and your brother's really close? Were 65 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: you destroying stuff all the time? You know? What? What? 66 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: What was that? Yeah? So in our family, it's very prototypical. 67 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: You know, I think you're an only child, right, and 68 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: so is my mom. So I have a lot of 69 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: little knowledge there. But in our family, it was very much. 70 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: My firstborn brother was the type a striver. My middle 71 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: guy was sort of that, you know, lost in between 72 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: the two big personalities, and I was the you know, 73 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: the cute little one and the mama's boy, Mama's baby. 74 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: And so that was the dynamic very much. And we 75 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: were close. Um, we did a lot of My older 76 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: brother and I. I played a lot of sports together. 77 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: And my middle brother and I were sort of the 78 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: the guys who would play under the oak tree in 79 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: the shade tree with our cars and we would you know, 80 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: talk out those stories of whether they were battles or 81 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: race cars. Um. That that was my childhood, and I 82 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: was very got to be a lot closer with my 83 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: middle brother because we were closer in age, I think, 84 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: and um, yeah, again, we had a great time. It 85 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: was it was the seventies. It was chill and your 86 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: mom lets you go out and play. It's it's it's 87 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: a different world. But I live for sure now with 88 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: my children. When when you talk about you and your 89 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: middle brother, you know, creating the stories with whether it's 90 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: like figurines or toy trucks or I don't know, g 91 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: I Joe's do you think that that's where you got 92 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: a passion for storytelling, Like, like when you think about 93 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: it now, can you see yourself kind of creating those 94 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: things back then? You know? I, like you said, I 95 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: never thought about it at the time, but in going back, 96 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: I think it was so great for me about the 97 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: childhood is that there weren't video games, right, and my 98 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: children and I'm sure you or you're on your phone 99 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: all the time and we're just so iPhone centric or 100 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: and and that's maddening to me because the creativity of 101 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: being able to just open the door and go out 102 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: back and play with your brother and just or play 103 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: with the neighborhood kids, and it was so non technological 104 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: and it was just a different time. And my wife 105 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: constantly says that, She's like, you know, we can't we 106 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: can't want for them what we had. It's a different world, 107 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: and we can encourage them to go outside. But we 108 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: talked about it all the time. One time, when my 109 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: kids are on there, when they were younger, they were 110 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: on the phone the whole time. We were like, you 111 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: get outside, get outside and play. And my wife and 112 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: I it was like an experiment, right. We watched from 113 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: the window and we tried to see them in the dirt, 114 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: and they didn't even know how to play, you know, 115 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: and the dirt was like dirty to them, and that 116 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: was so foreign to me. And uh, but it's that's 117 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: the reality of where we live now. I think, yeah, 118 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's a bygone era, but it's sad, but 119 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: you know, it is the way it is. I know 120 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: I miss it too, though, that that idea of just 121 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: being able to go out and plays. You have a 122 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: neighborhood similarly that you grew up in that you can 123 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: hang with kids or no. Yeah, I had a I 124 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: had a period of my life a couple of years 125 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: where We lived in a really small town in central California, 126 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: you know, like five thousand people, um central California coast. 127 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: So I played outside a lot. They're like on ranches 128 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: and in the neighborhood and we'd walked to school, you know, 129 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: through these neighborhoods that were kind of nestled in these 130 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: huge forests of pine trees. I mean, it was really 131 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: really amazing. And and I think about how the imagination 132 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: can really fire when there isn't always a screen in 133 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: front of your face. And I can't imagine what it 134 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: would be like, you know, to be a kid born 135 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: into a world where everyone has a smartphone. It must 136 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: be crazy, it must be insane. And also you wonder 137 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: about the creativity. Right for me, is that time of 138 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: just and I see it more with my younger son. 139 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: He can take those figurines and we my wife and 140 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: I talked about listening to his story, how he plays 141 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: and how he enunciates, you know, the different parts that 142 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: he's playing. It's it's it's actually hilarious to listen to 143 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: and very rich. But those are the synapses that you 144 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: wonder are they connecting in the brain if they're just 145 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: you know, being fed their Instagram feed or whatever else. Right, Um, 146 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: so it's incumbent upon the parents to do that, to 147 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: to encourage that. But at the same time, you're like, 148 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: especially right when we're in quarantine, there are times my 149 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: wife and I were like, thank god, he has Xbox 150 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: to go. He could you know, we could spread out 151 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: a little bit and he could have his you know, 152 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: fun time with his friends. And it's it's a different 153 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: style of play. But you know, um, you know where 154 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: maybe eight months ago we were like, just stop with 155 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: the Xbox now, Yeah, thank you lord. So I'm I 156 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: wonder also what one of the three lines might be, 157 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: because you talk about the impact of being outside, being 158 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: in the outdoors, that what that had on your childhood. 159 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: And I know that you went to law school in Vermont, 160 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: uh to study environmental log right, right, So was that 161 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: was that born out of a passion for the outdoors 162 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 1: of that kind of boy scout mentality, or or did 163 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: you decide you wanted to study environmental law for a 164 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: different reason. Well, I was intrigued by Vermont because they 165 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: had this program where you had you got a master's 166 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: if you went straight through the summer. So I went 167 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: to law school September to May, and then I stayed 168 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: there and I went to get into a master's program 169 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: straight through the summer. So I was for two years. 170 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: I got a j d. And a master's degree. So 171 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: that's why it was born out of that. Um Vermont 172 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: was obviously a wonderful place to go to law school. 173 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: The ironic thing of it all in in uh environmental law, 174 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: the good paying jobs on the ballooning side, right, you know, 175 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: that's the thing like Excellent Mobile is trying to get right, 176 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: I mean, but that's the truth. Right. So I was 177 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: working at the super fund brands Environmental Protection Agency in 178 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: New York City and you know, a starting attorney in 179 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: New York City, the Environmental Protection Agency is making thirty 180 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 1: five dollars and how do you live in New York one? 181 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: You know, But that that was the reality, and it 182 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: was an unfortunate reality. And I think that's what kind 183 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: of drove me. I didn't know that I could be 184 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 1: working for polluting, you know, or trying to get out 185 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: of the Clean Water Actor all these great laws and 186 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: um I think that was the genesis for me getting 187 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: into some the creativity of of making a movie. And 188 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: I made a little budget film in New York City, 189 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: UM called Black Is White, which is on YouTube, and 190 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: it was I flip flopped the races. I my African 191 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: American actors played white people and the white actors played 192 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: the black people. And it was a small thing. Went 193 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: to a bunch of film festivals. I didn't get into Sundance, 194 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: and so I just loaded up my car and I 195 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: drove to l A to try to be a writer. 196 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: So that was crazy time. Did you write that film? 197 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: I wrote, directed, and produced. Yeah. I made it for 198 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars in New York City, in and 199 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: around New York City, and yeah, it was a great experience, 200 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: and um, you know it was. It came out in 201 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: the ninety three or ninety four, uh, and I was 202 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: inspired by the l A race riots, and I just 203 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 1: I just didn't understand. I just until to this is 204 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: the day. The whole idea of of race relations bugs 205 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: me because I just don't get it. I mean, I 206 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: get it, but I don't understand that. I tell one 207 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: of the stories in the book is when I went 208 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 1: into UH, when I started in the funeral industry, and 209 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: I walked into the prep room and there were these 210 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: two bodies here right, there was an African American body 211 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: and a white body and they were splayed I was shocking. 212 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: They were splayed open, you know, doing an embalming, and 213 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: I just stopped that the shock was one thing, but 214 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: then I just stopped and I looked for a second 215 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: and them, like, the insides are exactly the same. You know. 216 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: It's like we're human beings and we make such a 217 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: big deal of these outer you know, meat suits that 218 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: I call them, right, but that was one of the 219 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: most profound things. And then again, I think you're hitting 220 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: on it. There are these maybe ten year cycles of 221 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: reminding you that these are the stories you're telling, and 222 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: you're telling there's a reason you're telling these stories over 223 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: your lifetime. So um yeah, And how interesting that this 224 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: first film that you made was really to use your 225 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:45,479 Speaker 1: words in order to flip flop the kind of hierarchies 226 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: that come from this culture of supremacy that actually isn't 227 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: rooted in anything, because as you're acknowledging, we're all human beings. 228 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: To muse on how ridiculous it is that we treat 229 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: people differently depending on what they look like, you know, 230 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: just out of college, when when you're starting to put 231 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: your mark on the world, and then all those years 232 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: later to quite literally see that we're all the same 233 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: on the inside, and to have that knowledge that that 234 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: kind of clarity of equality emphasized and confirmed in such 235 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: a biological way. I must have really like, that must 236 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: have been a really intense experience to see people's insides 237 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: on on the table. It was everything because it was twofold, right, 238 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: it was twofold intensity, two fold intensity. Right. You walk 239 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: in and I was again, I'm a screenwriter, I'm a 240 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: lawyer who's a screenwriter for ten years, and I'm walking 241 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: into a prep room for the first time and seeing 242 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: these bodies like that. That's shocking enough. But then I 243 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: don't know, my brain went somewhere and it was just like, 244 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: oh my god, there's a reason for me being here, 245 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: you know, and it's I don't know, you don't want 246 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: to get too huhah and you know out there, but 247 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: it was just profound for me. And it's a it's 248 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: we we waste too much time on it, and I 249 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: don't want to minimize it in any way, shape or form. 250 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: But let's move on, you know. Let's yeah, good stuff. 251 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: I bet, I bet you wish people who looked like 252 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: us would stop doing all the terrible ship we're doing 253 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: in the world. To people who don't look like us, 254 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: it's like, come on, what are we doing? What's happening? 255 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: You know? And it is? It's it's funny. I whatever 256 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: political you say, you just gotta wake up. Man. It's 257 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: just it's just such a waste of time. Need this well, 258 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: the lessons you know, to your point, what we waste 259 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: time on, the things we can kind of miss in 260 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: the in the time that we're living that you learned 261 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: in this second phase of your career, I really want 262 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: to get into. I also want to know what happens 263 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: in the middle because to your point, you you made 264 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: this movie V you moved to l A. You are 265 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: a lawyer who's working as a screenwriter. What are you writing? 266 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: Working is a subjective? Okay, I don't mean trying to 267 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: make it as a screenwriter. But you spent ten years 268 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: here in l A. So what was it that allowed 269 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: you or or gave you the faith to make the 270 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: switch and to come here and to try to do that? 271 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: And then what do you spend the next ten years doing? Yeah, 272 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: So the only thing I can attribute it to is 273 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: I have to say, it's got to be my parents, right. 274 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: They instilled in me my father when I was a 275 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: freshman in high school, I saw him leave a company, 276 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: a steady job and create, uh, this massive company that 277 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: turned out to be a massive company out of our 278 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: our living room, you know. And I would be at night. 279 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: There would be people coming over moonlighting and helping my father, 280 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: and my father would obviously pay them to build this business. 281 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: And I saw it that girant, that colonel of an 282 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: idea in his head sprout to something larger. And that's 283 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: the only thing I can really think of that I saw. 284 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: My father had so much joy for what he did. 285 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: He was a civil engineer, and I don't know if 286 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: you know anything about civil engineers, but it's a really 287 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: boring thing. It's about, you know, where up building goes 288 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: and how many a parking spaces and drainage. But I 289 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: saw in him the joy that he had every day 290 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: in doing it. And it wasn't a sports guy, but 291 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: he loved it. And you could see the smile and 292 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 1: the excitement on his face. And so I think that 293 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: he gave me that kind of courage to say, just 294 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: load up your car and go and just live the 295 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: life that you want to live and l a as 296 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I don't have to tell you 297 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: it's it's brutal. I mean it's brutal without any connections. 298 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: And um, I was just loving it. And I was 299 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: very fortunate it. I worked for a guy named her 300 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: Brits who was probably one of the foremost fashion photographers 301 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: before his untimely death. And he had a production company 302 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: and I had a friend who was a production manager 303 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: and hired me. It's just a grunt, and so I 304 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: got to you know, I had a great job. I 305 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: would like pick up Elena Christiansen at the chateaum Armant 306 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: in my little car and driver to the set, you know, 307 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: Thendy Crawford and you know it was Daniel Postova. And 308 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: I was a grunt on these shoots, these high fashioned shoots, 309 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 1: and it was great. I mean I would make some 310 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: money that I could go right for a couple of 311 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: months and I would live commercial to commercial and that 312 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: was how I survived. Luckily, I got hired by Paramount 313 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 1: Classics on the Paramount lot to do their Academy Award 314 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: campaigns every fall season. So it was like October November 315 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: to UM February. They would try to push their films 316 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: and send out screeners to all uh Amphis people, the 317 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: Academy people, and that was another job. So there were 318 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: just those those kind of fringe jobs that no one 319 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: really knows about. Um, but you can survive doing it. 320 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: And that's how I survived. And you met your wife 321 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: while you were in l A. Correct, I did at 322 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: the eighties night in Santa Monica. She was dancing on 323 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: the stage, yes, and so that's what we were there. 324 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: From from that night forward, we've been together. Yeah, it 325 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: was and it was funny because it was a blind 326 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,239 Speaker 1: date and she was from like she was working at 327 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: some small university in like Corona, you know out if 328 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: you know l A, it's it's it's the Inland Empire, 329 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: and and it just was very happenstance. But we just 330 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: struck up a nice friendship and you know, from there 331 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: took it so, um it it's a pretty it's a 332 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: maddening place. I found l A to be quite maddening. 333 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: I found it to be quite cruel in terms of 334 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: trying to become a writer, and it's it's a it's 335 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: a hard process and to get a manager and then 336 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 1: to get an agent and then to slowly get yourself 337 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: in the door and writes scripts. Um. It actually is 338 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: the genesis for another book that I'm I'm writing about 339 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: Hollywood and a romantic comedy set in Hollywood, because I 340 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: feel like the layperson who is in Iowa wants to 341 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: really know how Hollywood works. And there's been a couple 342 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: of good films like The Player or Swimming with Sharks 343 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: or certainly Entourage on the TV front, But that to 344 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: me is very intriguing right now, how Hollywood work. Yeah, 345 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: so you're out here, you're building a life, You're you're 346 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: working in the industry, and you know, we all have 347 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: to start doing grunt jobs that are brutal, and that 348 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: that I get. You know, you you meet your now wife, 349 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: you're making a life together, and then you decided to 350 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: leave l A. When when was this and why? Yeah? 351 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 1: So that was pretty We had my son, my first son, 352 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: and um, I think that was the the realization of 353 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: many things. I had probably put off adulthood longer than 354 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: most men could. I was in my late thirties, and 355 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: you know, we remember running over to Cedar Sinai and 356 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: doing all the you know, mommy and daddy and me 357 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: classes over there, and when he came out, I mean, 358 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: it was just it was such a shock to my 359 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: system to see the child and say, wow, you know, 360 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: that was adulthood for me because then it was like, hey, yo, 361 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: you gotta start teaching me about all this and and 362 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: how how am I going to grow up? And you know, 363 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: so that was the profound impact for me. And it 364 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: was just what do we do? Because I was making it. 365 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: My wife was working in Westwood and she was carrying us, 366 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: but she said, I want to be a mom and 367 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: we had to make a decision. So that was a 368 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,959 Speaker 1: decision that that changed my life in so many ways. 369 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 1: So what walk us through the decision? What? What did 370 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: you decide to do? Where did you go? Well, you know, 371 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: it's funny because you're a screenwriter and you're like, wow, 372 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: I've been out of law. I'm a licensed attorney in 373 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: New York. But I was like, I don't want to 374 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: be an attorney because I knew you it was gonna 375 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: be seven. I wanted to be a dad too. I 376 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: want to be involved in this child's life. And so 377 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: it was what are the auctions go back to New York, 378 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: your my family or go up north where her her 379 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: family is from. And she's like, I'd like near my 380 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: family if that's okay, And I was like yeah, And 381 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 1: she had this This is the crazy story. She had 382 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: a friend who was a mortician who would be like 383 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: at every family gathering and he would he would just 384 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: hound me and say, Chris, if you ever want to 385 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: be in business, this business is so solid, there's always 386 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: people dying and it's a great business. And I was like, 387 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, no, no, you know, just like you would 388 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: look at, you know, someone like say that to you. 389 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: And and then honestly, when we had my son, I 390 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: was like, I think that's the best option that I 391 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: have right now. So I slept on his couch and 392 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: I scouted up in the northern California area, just doing 393 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: my due diligence, and lo and behold, we came upon 394 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: a funeral home that had been in the community since 395 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: nine I was having some financial troubles, and I bought it. 396 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: And from that day forward, it was like, Wow, that 397 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: that was the life changer. And so how how did 398 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: you do that? I mean, did that require getting a 399 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 1: small business loan? I mean, because that that's a big 400 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: entrepreneurial shift. To buy a business, and I'm sure there's 401 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: people listening going okay, but how did you do that? Correct? 402 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: So was super fortunate my parents had money and they 403 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: helped us. I did go to the SBA exactly like 404 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: you talked about, there's a small business. There's something called SCORE, 405 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: which here are essentially retired businessmen who donate their time 406 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: to advise you had to run a business, start a business, 407 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: what you need to think about. So I went to 408 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: the local SCORE chapter many times. They gave you business 409 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: plans that See. The ironic thing about starting a business 410 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: is that I purchased a business that had been in 411 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 1: the community since nine and two thousand and four. So 412 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: I went to the bank with all these documentations saying, 413 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: this is a thriving business. Here are the financials. And 414 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: they looked at me and they said, yeah, but you 415 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: have no experience. And I was like, I have a mortician, 416 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: he's licensed, I have everything, he's you know, a friend 417 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: of the family. And they're like, yeah, no, you know. 418 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: So that was the irony of it all. You have 419 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,479 Speaker 1: a thriving business that is well it wasn't driving at 420 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: the time, but we had all the financials and we 421 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: knew we could turn it around, but the bank doesn't 422 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: want to take a chance on you. So we um 423 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 1: my parents made this incredible gesture of kindness for me 424 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 1: and my family, my new family, and we said, well, listen, 425 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: we only need it until the bank has agreed that, 426 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, if we have two years of good sound financials, 427 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: then we'll give you a loan. And that's what we did, 428 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: and it was it was such a great experience because 429 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: you had this thing hang over your head, this financial 430 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: burden to your parents who took this massive risk on you, 431 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: and I had a newborn and I was like, there 432 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: is no way I'm gonna do anything but make this 433 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: thing succeed. So I think that was like this this 434 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: super fire under under me. This just NonStop work and 435 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: run home and work and run home, and so I 436 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: couldn't let it fail. Yeah, Well, and not having an option, 437 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: I think is is a great motivator. You know, you know, 438 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: there's no way, there's no way you're going to let 439 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: this thing go down in flames. I'm curious about the 440 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: shift in line of work, because to go from writing 441 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: to running a funeral home, that's that's a big shift. 442 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: Did you have hesitations about going into the business. I mean, 443 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I know that you knew this guy, your 444 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: wife's friend, who who was a mortician, So I imagine 445 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: he had a lot of information to share and and 446 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: could tell you a lot and answer a lot of questions. 447 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: But I'm still sitting here going what's going through your 448 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: head when you're thinking about doing this? I think that 449 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: I think that it can't fail was the biggest thing 450 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: that was going through my head. And I think that, 451 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: you know, in making that movie in New York, I 452 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: was had to be mindful of the budget because I 453 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: had a finite amount of money, So I was watching 454 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: every single penny where it was spent, how it was spent, 455 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: And again going back one step further to watching my 456 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: father and watching what he went through and listening to 457 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: the conversations at the dinner table that he was having 458 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: with his contemporaries. He was really He and my mother 459 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: were just they would share everything. It was an open book. 460 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: So I would literally see spreadsheets on the tables and 461 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: I would ask about them, and they would give me 462 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: all the firsthand knowledge. So that's that I would have 463 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: to say was probably the greatest gift. And the key 464 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: is what most leaders say is surround yourself the people 465 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: that are smarter than you. So I was very good 466 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: at that. I knew that. I you know, it was 467 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: not the smartest guy in the room and on every subject. 468 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: So finding quality people, I thought that was that That 469 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: was probably the best advice some of my dad. My 470 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: dad was super intelligent. He was the guy, but that 471 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: wasn't me. And I think you have to understand that 472 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: introspection to be able to look in the mirror and say, yeah, 473 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: that's not my strength or this is my strength, and 474 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: you know, surround yourself. For me, that's what That's what 475 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: it was. Surround yourself with great people. So you've got 476 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: these lessons kind of under your belt and you realize 477 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,959 Speaker 1: now you have a place to apply them. But like 478 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, now you're in rooms with dead bodies. 479 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: What was this like at first? What how does a 480 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: funeral home work? What is it like to it's I'll 481 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: tell you it's tough, especially coming never having any experience 482 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: in that business, and you know, just watching how it's done, 483 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: getting a call right to the funeral home and the 484 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: person is either in their home, they're in the hospital, 485 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: they're at the corner's office. And the most tragic ones 486 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: were generally when they were at home, right, and you 487 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: would find people in various positions, in various parts of 488 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: the house. I mean, everyone doesn't die with a beautiful 489 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: blanket and afghan across their chest. You know. That's that's 490 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: kind of how we think of death. I mean, it 491 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: is an It is a rough and ugly business. And um, 492 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: you have to go and be respectful. That's the other thing, 493 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: because you're walking into a hornet's nest. Generally speaking, these people, 494 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: especially in the home right, they've been with their loved one, 495 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: you know, probably for a protracted period, and they're hurting. 496 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: This is someone they care about dearly. There haven't been 497 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: eating right, they haven't been drinking right. There. Family comes in, right, 498 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: there's always that hair trigger aspect of everything. You know, 499 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: the unlost brothers coming in to say his final goodvies 500 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: and you know that he he couldn't stand mom and 501 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: dad and or you know, it's there's that whole dynamic 502 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: and as the guy who's coming in to take mom away, 503 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: you have to kind of quickly suss up all those 504 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: personalities and not step on on anyone's toes and then 505 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: get her, you know, on the gurney in a respectful 506 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: manner and then you know, take her to the funeral home. 507 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: So that the sort of the like you said that, 508 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: the nuts and both the prettiness of it all was 509 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: very very shocking. And I think for me it was 510 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: really tough because I'm the kind of guy that I 511 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: get emotionally involved, you know. I I started looking at 512 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: the faces and I start seeing the expressions on the faces, 513 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: and I think that's what was very very drainy, because 514 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: you get caught up in their story. You know, we're thinking, 515 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: what if that was my mom? Right? Yeah, I mean 516 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: it sounds like it takes an emotional toll, and if 517 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't, I don't see that. I don't I didn't 518 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: see the flip side. I think that was it for me. 519 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: So is It's like I didn't understand how you could 520 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: just make it a business and how you could just 521 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: go in there and do your job and just be 522 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: a robot. Like for me, that didn't work either. Like 523 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: I wanted, I wanted to be able to look the 524 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: man or woman in the eye and say, hey, you know, 525 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: hold their hand and say I got you, I got 526 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: you here. I'm gonna treat your loved one like it's 527 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: my mom or dad, right, And I think you hit 528 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: the nail on the head. You know, I'm seven years 529 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: in now, and I'm like, oh my god, I don't 530 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: know if I could do this. You know, I was 531 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: so drained every night, and and the constant like you know, 532 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: empathy that you're having for these families. You're starting to 533 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: think like, hey man, I gotta be careful so I 534 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: don't get taken down with this all. So yeah, that 535 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: was I think that's where the writing came out of. 536 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: You know, I I figured after that seven to ten 537 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: year period, I'm like, I gotta I gotta start putting 538 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: some of this on paper because I can help people. 539 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: I know, I can help people who are living by 540 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: like saying hey, you know, smack them upside of the 541 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: head with the book and say read this. You know, 542 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta stop. I think, you know, feeling 543 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: sorry for yourself or feeling having bad feelings for your 544 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: brother or sister. Gotta wake up. It's all gonna be 545 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: over a short amount of time. So yeah, that was 546 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: that was it for me. When when you first got 547 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: there and you know, you mentioned it's emotional, it's it's 548 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: hard to look at people who are losing their loved ones, 549 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: to to know how to move in those rooms with them, 550 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: to hold space for their experience, to do that respectfully. 551 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: And then to your earlier point about what you saw 552 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: when you first walked into a prep room, there's also 553 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: like medically technical procedures involved here. It's it's a it's 554 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: a physically brutal business. Was it was it strange to 555 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: witness those things, to actually see how bodies have to 556 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: be processed, to to see, you know, the sort of 557 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: space between the emotional experience of grief and then the 558 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: and then the stuff that has to be done with 559 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: what remains. Yeah, and I think it's you know, it's 560 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: beast lay person doesn't know anything about that because the 561 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: behind the curtain stuff is not pretty, you know, and 562 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, the preserve a and of a body, 563 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: or the dressing of a body and care for a 564 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: body after that sort of post mortem period is brutal. 565 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: And there are professionals and I was not licensed and 566 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: I did not do that portion of the prep and 567 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 1: them bombing that is a very specific thing, but witnessing it, 568 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: you know, I I talked about there's two ways that 569 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: could go right in the funeral industry, it's a very 570 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: notorious heavy drinking industry to sort of dull sort of 571 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: these emotions. Or you could do the opposite and get 572 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: home and just be overjoyed. And I think for me, 573 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: I had this son to go home to, and I 574 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: was so overjoyed to share. You know, I knew what 575 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: I left, and I knew that this was a new beginning. 576 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,359 Speaker 1: And then we proceeded to have two more sons. So 577 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: I think for me, I call it sort of the 578 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: grand reminder. It was I knew what my work was, 579 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: and it told me to go home and play with 580 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: your kids and laugh and try to coach everything that 581 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 1: they did, and be at school and when they had 582 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,240 Speaker 1: something in the day, take the time to do it. 583 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: It was that's what was so profound for me. It 584 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: was that reminder that, Hay, Chris, go this work will 585 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: be here. You have qualified people who can run this 586 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 1: place while you're not here for an hour going to 587 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: your child school. And it was great. I mean I 588 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: literally that that made me happy. So I took it 589 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: as a positive and I just try to make it 590 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: work for me. Is there a point in hindsight that 591 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: you look at where you realize you started looking at 592 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: your life differently that that you started in the face 593 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: of grief, focusing on gratitude at home. Can you see 594 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: when that happened? Well, there are many instances, and I 595 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: think they keep coming over and over again. But I 596 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: think one of the most profound for me was a 597 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: woman who lost her daughter in an auto accident. And 598 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: it was the craziest situation. She was a teenage girl 599 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: and she had a surviving sister who they were like 600 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: best friends. And she came into an arrangement one day 601 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: with this other daughter and they said, I have an 602 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: unusual request. And I said, you know, what are you 603 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 1: talking about? I mean, you know, in your you're sitting 604 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: I know exactly you're sitting there, and You're like, great, 605 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: what's coming next? So she and her daughter proceeds to 606 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: tell we'd like to take her and I said, what 607 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,359 Speaker 1: are you talking about? And she said, we would like 608 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: to take her with us. We know you've picked her 609 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: up and she's in the back with you. We want 610 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: to take her in the car for one last right 611 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 1: around town to the old Plants with some of her friends. 612 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 1: And I'm like, this lady is out of her mind. Right. 613 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: And so I went to the woman who runs the place, 614 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: and I said, is this even legal? And she's said absolutely, 615 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: there's no preclusion for us to do that, and you 616 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: can allow that. How is this even possible? So she 617 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: proceeded with her daughter and a couple of friends to 618 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: put her in the body. This is like weekend to 619 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: Bernie's right. I mean, I'm thinking I call it weekend 620 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: at Burmandadet. And they drove to like where they used 621 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 1: to drink beers down by the river. They even went 622 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: to Mickey d S through the drive through. So she 623 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: comes back, you know, an hour later, all the friends there, 624 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: and she's coming down off a high. They're all giggling 625 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 1: and they're there. It was almost like this frenzy kind 626 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,720 Speaker 1: of giggle. And I was just like, I can't believe 627 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: I even witnessed this or allowedness. And the friends leave 628 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,359 Speaker 1: and I'm looking at the mom and I'm like, are 629 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: you okay? And and she's like no, And I said 630 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 1: what's up? And she's like I need to see her? 631 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: And can I can I stay and see her? And 632 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: so you know, we do that all time to put 633 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: her the this scene in a side room and they 634 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: sit and you closed the door and they set half 635 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 1: some nice quiet time and I had work to do 636 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 1: in the back, so I went in the back and 637 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: I was doing sort of the business pane of the 638 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: bills in the back. And it was about two hours 639 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: later and I'm like, I've got to go home at 640 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: six thirty seven o'clock and I'm ready to go. So 641 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: I come back. Everyone's gone in the funeral home and 642 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: it's just her and I opened the door and there's 643 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,839 Speaker 1: you know, her fifteen year old daughter laying there with her, 644 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: and she's in a chair holding her daughter's hand. And 645 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: she looked turned and looked at me and she goes, 646 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: she's like a half to go right, And I said, well, 647 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 1: it's it's closing, and she's and I looked her in 648 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,720 Speaker 1: the eye and in that instant I knew it wasn't 649 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,760 Speaker 1: over for her, right, And I said, you know, would 650 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: you like to stay? And she said, are you kidding me? 651 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 1: And I said no, And I took the key off 652 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,080 Speaker 1: my key chain and I gave it to her and 653 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: I said, I'll lock up. You can stay all night 654 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: if you want, and just leave the tea in the 655 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: outside mailbox. So obviously I went home that night, my 656 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: little boys there and you know, talking him in, obviously 657 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 1: holding him a little extra tight tonight and rubbing his head. 658 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: And I went back the next morning and she was 659 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: there and I went in and and I said okay, 660 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: and she was still there, and you know, she got 661 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: up and she gave me a hug, and she said 662 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: you're a good man, and and left. But I always 663 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: think about that time. The critical time for me is 664 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: when that loved one says goodbye to for the last time. Right, 665 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 1: this is the last time she will see her daughter. 666 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: She is dead, but she will not see her again. 667 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,439 Speaker 1: What does that moment feel like? How can you, as 668 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: a businessman quote unquote rush someone out in that moment? Right? 669 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: So um I I I literally saw the woman a 670 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: year later in the grocery store and I went up 671 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: to her and I introduced myself and she just looked 672 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: me in the eye and and she gave me a 673 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: hug and she just said that again, she said good man. 674 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: She walked away, and I felt so bad. I came 675 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,359 Speaker 1: home and told my wife. I was like, I should 676 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: have just walked by her in that grocery store because 677 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: I think she was healing. And I brought her back, 678 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: you know, just by saying, hey, I'm Chris from the 679 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: funeral home. And and I knew she had a glimpse of, 680 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: you know, the kindness for me. But I could also 681 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: see that, you know, it almost felt to me like 682 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: she had heeled and I brought her back and and 683 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,399 Speaker 1: gave her that memory again. But that was probably one 684 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: of the great great moments for me the funeral industry. 685 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 1: And again it turns out that I felt guilty about, 686 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: you know, talking to her that year. Yeah, I mean, 687 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: I get that, but I you know, I've I've never 688 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,080 Speaker 1: experienced what that woman did. But what I will say 689 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: is when I've experienced grief, the grief doesn't go away. 690 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: I can't imagine that that woman is going to heal 691 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:16,399 Speaker 1: from that per se. But I can't imagine that the 692 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: fact that you never forgot her was meaningful to her, 693 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: because really, you know that that has to me, and 694 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: that you never forgot her daughter. And and I can't 695 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:37,240 Speaker 1: imagine what would be more comforting, you know, for someone 696 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: who is walking around, you know, forever missing a piece 697 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: of her heart. I I think that, you know, sometimes 698 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,799 Speaker 1: having those things recognized, sure is painful, but not because 699 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 1: the recognition is painful. It's it's painful because the loss 700 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:55,319 Speaker 1: was painful. And yeah, I don't know, and you said it, 701 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 1: you said it. It's it's so true because you were 702 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: talking about grief and you're saying the grief doesn't go away, right, 703 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,360 Speaker 1: And I think we think that as a society, is 704 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 1: that when the death happens there you know, you could 705 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 1: read read a book and and you know, oh, my 706 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: grief is gonna be gone in six months or eight 707 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: months or not. You know, it doesn't work that way. 708 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,840 Speaker 1: And and that's I had a I was very fortunate. 709 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: My mother's I told you, was an only child, and 710 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,320 Speaker 1: she had a father who lost his wife very early. 711 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 1: And he and I grew up together and we're best friends. 712 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,840 Speaker 1: And that's exactly it. That grief, that love that I 713 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: had for him, never goes away. And it's odd how 714 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: it comes to you. And and and I heard your 715 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 1: your thing about nature. For me, it comes to me 716 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: in nature. I go on these early morning walks and 717 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: there are trees around, and I knew he grew up 718 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 1: in a sawmill in Germany and trees were everything to him. 719 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: And I feel that, you know, I feel him, and 720 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,239 Speaker 1: and it's like it's almost like, I don't know, it 721 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: comes in your chest and you're just like, wow, that reminder. 722 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: But I don't think the grief the grief for me. 723 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: I miss him, but it's like it's an honoring I 724 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: see it as a hey man, I'm with you still, 725 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, And I like that. I really like that. 726 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 1: That's the way I want to think of the grief. 727 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,800 Speaker 1: The early grief is tough though, anyway you slice it. 728 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,879 Speaker 1: Of course, I wonder if part of the reason it's 729 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 1: so tough. I mean, obviously loss is tremendously painful, and 730 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,319 Speaker 1: yet I'm struck by the reality that death is something 731 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,239 Speaker 1: that touches everyone. You know. You when when you were 732 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,279 Speaker 1: talking about your book, there's a practical thing we have 733 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: to say, which is we're all gonna die. But we 734 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,280 Speaker 1: have such a hard time as a society talking about it, 735 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,799 Speaker 1: knowing what to say to people who are going through it. 736 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,799 Speaker 1: Do you feel after all these years of holding the 737 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 1: space that you do? Do you do you have hunches? 738 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 1: You know? Why? Why do you think it's so hard 739 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,719 Speaker 1: for us to open up about it, to talk about it. 740 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,759 Speaker 1: I think it's a society we have a hard time 741 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,759 Speaker 1: with the emotions and I think, especially from a male perspective, 742 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,759 Speaker 1: you know, you're supposed to be this strong, you know, 743 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,319 Speaker 1: not show anything. I just I don't buy into that. 744 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 1: It's it's very similar to what you and I just 745 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,720 Speaker 1: spoke about when we were talking about race. I think 746 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: it's tough to talk about death because it's so darn permanent. 747 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, that's why for me 748 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: writing about something and spinning it to the positive and 749 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 1: having appreciation, it's so necessary. And it's it's such a 750 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,479 Speaker 1: like you said, we're all going, it's we're all gonna 751 00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,839 Speaker 1: go when we go, you let's let's have left our 752 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: market in some way. And for me, again, this is 753 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 1: not for everyone, but for me, it's family. For me, 754 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: that's what it's always been. That's what I I just 755 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 1: loved it. I had a great family. I still have 756 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 1: a great family. And I think, you know, as a society, 757 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 1: we want to have more and more and more and 758 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 1: more friends and more material possessions and more of this, 759 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,479 Speaker 1: and I don't think you need it. And I think 760 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:31,400 Speaker 1: in many ways, as as horrible as a quarantine is, 761 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,800 Speaker 1: it's a great reflective moment to hit that reset. We'll 762 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,040 Speaker 1: get out in nature and like you said, how nature 763 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: is actually doing better because we're all inside it is 764 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: that collective reset. Um. I wish that people could just 765 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,279 Speaker 1: break down some more walls and not be so you know, 766 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,200 Speaker 1: I have to be strong in society. It's a It's 767 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,320 Speaker 1: a great thing to talk about, and certainly you're parents 768 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 1: need to talk about it as they get older. Um. 769 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: If it's nothing to be afraid of, we're all going 770 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,759 Speaker 1: you just hope it's not nice, not soon. Do you 771 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:14,239 Speaker 1: think there are things people misunderstand about death? Yeah, I 772 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 1: think it's just what we spoke about. It's trying not 773 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,840 Speaker 1: to talk about it. I think I think it's the opposite. 774 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 1: I think you want to talk about I want to 775 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,719 Speaker 1: draw those stories out of you. I want to understand 776 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,520 Speaker 1: how you're feeling in your brain that Grandpa is gone. 777 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,239 Speaker 1: What were those happy moments that you had with him? 778 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 1: Tell me about those, because in telling them, it's cathartic 779 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,879 Speaker 1: and it gets it out. It's the people that are 780 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,719 Speaker 1: just tight and hold everything inside that it's gonna go 781 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,160 Speaker 1: one day, you're going to combust and this explode. I 782 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,760 Speaker 1: think it's so much healthier to just have those conversations 783 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,359 Speaker 1: and they're tough. I mean, there's tough. As much as 784 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,840 Speaker 1: we articulate this in a book or hearing it's something 785 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 1: on YouTube or something like that. I know my parents 786 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 1: are eighty years old, and it's hard to talk about it. 787 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,919 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know what it's been like at eight. 788 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,879 Speaker 1: Do you think about how much more do I have? 789 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,120 Speaker 1: What's tomorrow? Is it? Am I thinking five years from now? 790 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,920 Speaker 1: Am I thinking I'm just thinking put my feet on 791 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: the ground tomorrow. It's a tough, tough subject, and I 792 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,399 Speaker 1: think it takes people like you and me did just say, hey, man, 793 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,640 Speaker 1: let's talk about it. What are you feeling, how's that going, 794 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,120 Speaker 1: how's that going for you? I'm sorry for your love, 795 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,879 Speaker 1: But tell me about that, tell me about what it's 796 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,439 Speaker 1: that amateur psychology of it, all right? We all need that, 797 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:42,200 Speaker 1: yeah too, to ask and to offer people a container, 798 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, to say to someone, I'll hold this space 799 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,680 Speaker 1: for you. I think can be really it can be 800 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:53,680 Speaker 1: really transformative. Can you walk us through some of the 801 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 1: lessons that you write about in your book, some of 802 00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 1: the big aha moments you've had sitting with people in grief, 803 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:06,720 Speaker 1: because you referenced it earlier, your experiences in the funeral 804 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:11,400 Speaker 1: home have really helped you see what gets clear for 805 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 1: people about what they actually need and what they don't 806 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:18,000 Speaker 1: and what's important. And I'm curious what some of those 807 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:22,880 Speaker 1: lessons have been. Yeah, I mean I talk about a 808 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,319 Speaker 1: lot of different lessons and about you know, family become 809 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,239 Speaker 1: a familionaire I talked about. I talk about the respecting 810 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: of others, having a having faith or spirituality. Again, I 811 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,160 Speaker 1: don't just like the race. I don't want to get 812 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: caught up in the religion. I think having some kind 813 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 1: of some kind of foundation that works for you is 814 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 1: great or if there's not some uh, actual religion, to 815 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 1: have a spirituality that you're part of a greater good. 816 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,280 Speaker 1: I think one of a great lessons is to fail, 817 00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,720 Speaker 1: and I wish you know, we all want to fail 818 00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 1: as much as we and because it means we're trying. 819 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,479 Speaker 1: If you're not failing, you're not trying. And I think 820 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,640 Speaker 1: one of another great lessons was a woman who who 821 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,480 Speaker 1: walked into the funeral home and I could see her 822 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,480 Speaker 1: checking things out with her husband and they came down. 823 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,799 Speaker 1: As she came into focus, she I could see the 824 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,919 Speaker 1: side of her face was like slump, looked like from 825 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,879 Speaker 1: a seizure or something. And you know, I said, can 826 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,400 Speaker 1: I help you? And she said, we're here to make 827 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,000 Speaker 1: funeral arrangements, and you know, I said, I have it 828 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,000 Speaker 1: all down in my head, you know, for who. Who's 829 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,719 Speaker 1: a mom, dad, grandma? And she said for me And 830 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:41,080 Speaker 1: I said and she said, I'm here with my this 831 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,480 Speaker 1: is my husband, and I know he can't handle this, 832 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 1: so I'm here to tell you what I want. And 833 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,480 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I mean, you know 834 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:56,279 Speaker 1: that that had never happened to me before. And I 835 00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,720 Speaker 1: sat down with her and she had two children, and 836 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,879 Speaker 1: we went through the whole thing, and that for me, 837 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,800 Speaker 1: again was just so she didn't want. All she wanted 838 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:13,040 Speaker 1: to be was at home with her family. Right. She 839 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,759 Speaker 1: knew she was dying. She's the doctors told her, you 840 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,680 Speaker 1: have less than six months. So what do you do 841 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,720 Speaker 1: when someone tells you that? And so we went through everything, 842 00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,880 Speaker 1: and she and I had this great talking about children 843 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,520 Speaker 1: and talking about you know, what she wanted and how 844 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,799 Speaker 1: she wanted it. And then one day, you know, the 845 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,600 Speaker 1: phone rang and uh, someone in the office said, Chris, 846 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,719 Speaker 1: you know, they requested you and I was like, you 847 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,520 Speaker 1: know who, I didn't recognize the name. And I went 848 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,239 Speaker 1: like I did, got in the car and the van 849 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,440 Speaker 1: and pick her up, and I drove there and I 850 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,920 Speaker 1: saw him at the front door, and he was her husband, 851 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,799 Speaker 1: was crying, and he saw me and gave me a 852 00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 1: big hug. And I walked in to that living room 853 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,520 Speaker 1: and I saw in the living room she was on 854 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:06,160 Speaker 1: a hospital bed with afghan and pictures of the kids 855 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:11,200 Speaker 1: and gatorade bottles and and and stuffed animals, and you 856 00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,879 Speaker 1: could just see how much love was in the home. 857 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,960 Speaker 1: And it was not a fancy home. It was very modest, 858 00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,560 Speaker 1: and and it just struck me because she had told 859 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,279 Speaker 1: me six months ago exactly how she wanted to go, 860 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:31,080 Speaker 1: and she did it right, and and it was just 861 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,080 Speaker 1: again one of those heartfelt moments where you're like, I 862 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:40,239 Speaker 1: can't believe this. I can't believe that I'm here. She 863 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,680 Speaker 1: was this living person describing exactly what you wanted six 864 00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:49,600 Speaker 1: months ago, and now I'm here to take her. And 865 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:54,920 Speaker 1: that was that was just it was just an again 866 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,040 Speaker 1: in retrospect, it was probably one of the greater moments 867 00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:03,160 Speaker 1: of reminders for me in learning about death. But it 868 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:08,000 Speaker 1: was so really savvy, you know, you to see someone 869 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,520 Speaker 1: living and then know them when they're living Usually it's 870 00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,800 Speaker 1: just we'll get the call, go pick up the body, 871 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,440 Speaker 1: and you have no connection, right, and this this was 872 00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:23,600 Speaker 1: very different. And I think another piggybacking on that was, 873 00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,839 Speaker 1: you know, I talked a lot about you know, when 874 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:31,279 Speaker 1: we go home, you have these these moments and one 875 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,000 Speaker 1: of my middle son, you know, I have this uh 876 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,400 Speaker 1: routine of tucking the boys in, and you know, you 877 00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,000 Speaker 1: have to go through each one of them. My wife 878 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:42,359 Speaker 1: laughs at me and she's like, I don't know how 879 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,480 Speaker 1: you do this. You know, twenty minutes of every child 880 00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:47,600 Speaker 1: every night. And I was like, you know, what's better 881 00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,240 Speaker 1: than that? So in those moments, you know, they they're 882 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,920 Speaker 1: relaxing for their day, and and I sat down with 883 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,839 Speaker 1: my middle guy and he said to me, just out 884 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:02,440 Speaker 1: of the freaking blue one, He's like, Daddy, what happens 885 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:06,280 Speaker 1: when you die? And then you know, you're like, oh man, 886 00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:08,440 Speaker 1: where am I going with this? I mean, I'm in 887 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,879 Speaker 1: the business. I do it this every day. And my son, 888 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, obviously has articularticulated like what tell me what happens? 889 00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,560 Speaker 1: And so I just went into this, you know what 890 00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,560 Speaker 1: I believe, you know, my my story, and I talked 891 00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:27,359 Speaker 1: about my grandfather who had passed, and how there is 892 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,279 Speaker 1: I believe in the heaven and that we go there 893 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,879 Speaker 1: and and it's this great grand place and and then 894 00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,960 Speaker 1: he turns to me and goes, you know, but that 895 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,239 Speaker 1: how am I going to find you? It sounds like 896 00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:43,440 Speaker 1: a really big place, and you know, I'm in tears 897 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,200 Speaker 1: at that point. I went in and I talked to 898 00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,720 Speaker 1: my my wife and she's like, why are you crying. 899 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:53,759 Speaker 1: I'm like, I just had the most epic conversation with 900 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:58,040 Speaker 1: the seven year old that you could ever imagine. I mean, 901 00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,520 Speaker 1: And so you have I have those moments, and especially 902 00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:06,160 Speaker 1: in retrospect, they become you become like, wow, that's that's 903 00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:10,040 Speaker 1: pretty that was pretty special. And and the gift I 904 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:15,759 Speaker 1: say of of being in this funeral business, it came 905 00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,560 Speaker 1: back a millionfold right there. And that's just in that 906 00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:23,160 Speaker 1: one instance, you know, So there are those. I think 907 00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,880 Speaker 1: it's just you know that the message of time, you know, 908 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:31,160 Speaker 1: we that's the one thing you can't get more of, right, 909 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,359 Speaker 1: And I think you hear that a lot. But when 910 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,239 Speaker 1: you're in the funeral business and when the families are saying, hey, man, Chris, 911 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,400 Speaker 1: go home, take the time, go home and do with 912 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,840 Speaker 1: your children. And so I've lived like that and I 913 00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,440 Speaker 1: feel pretty good. You know. It's kind of that has 914 00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,480 Speaker 1: been a great sort of Lennissance in me, to just 915 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,719 Speaker 1: step off the habit trail of life. Step off the 916 00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:03,799 Speaker 1: habit trail. I like that a lot. And and and 917 00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,000 Speaker 1: to your point, the idea of go home, you know, 918 00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:11,760 Speaker 1: have dinner with your family, coach your kids, soccer team, 919 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,960 Speaker 1: whatever it is, but be there more because that's the 920 00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,919 Speaker 1: stuff every family is talking about when they're walking through 921 00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:24,359 Speaker 1: your doors. And eat the cake. Eat the cake, right, 922 00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:28,160 Speaker 1: eat that last I mean food, you hit it, talk 923 00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,920 Speaker 1: about that, you know how you grew up? What what 924 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,839 Speaker 1: those are? Such fond memories food. You know, we're all like, 925 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:36,239 Speaker 1: you know, especially in l A, I was like, I 926 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,239 Speaker 1: want to get lean. I gotta get ripped, I gotta 927 00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:42,200 Speaker 1: get organic. You know, I'm like enough, you know, eat 928 00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:47,600 Speaker 1: the cake. Think about those moments with at Thanksgiving dinner 929 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,120 Speaker 1: when I looked down the left and I look right 930 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,799 Speaker 1: on these little cheesy Costco tables, right, but with a 931 00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:59,080 Speaker 1: little and that's family and we're having a meal. And 932 00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,240 Speaker 1: whether it's wther you have twenty people or you have three, 933 00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,400 Speaker 1: or if you don't have true family those friends that 934 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,680 Speaker 1: we all have that we consider family break bread together. 935 00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:14,399 Speaker 1: You know. Anthony Bourdain was that the king of that, right. 936 00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,239 Speaker 1: I mean, he would travel the world over and he 937 00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,880 Speaker 1: would he would just break bread because he knew he 938 00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,640 Speaker 1: could break you down. It didn't matter your politics at 939 00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,040 Speaker 1: that moment, right, we could just talk about the common 940 00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,880 Speaker 1: interests of loving this great neal or this great break 941 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,760 Speaker 1: that to me is the good stuff that I feel 942 00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:40,919 Speaker 1: that too. Yeah, do you think and I wonder about this, 943 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,960 Speaker 1: You know, these are big emotional observations and lessons you 944 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,160 Speaker 1: get to learn in your line of work. And I 945 00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:49,759 Speaker 1: can't help but think about where our lines of work 946 00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:55,080 Speaker 1: used to overlap. Do you think that death is accurately 947 00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:59,719 Speaker 1: portrayed in what we see in movies and television? Is 948 00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,399 Speaker 1: there anything about what you see that you would want 949 00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,960 Speaker 1: to change? Well? I think it. I think it is. 950 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,680 Speaker 1: Especially there was that what was the two brothers in 951 00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:14,400 Speaker 1: the funeral home? I think there was, I forget the 952 00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:19,560 Speaker 1: name of the show, that there was a series back there, Yeah, 953 00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:23,360 Speaker 1: so that was that was a very clear depiction. But 954 00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:28,080 Speaker 1: I think what's hard to encapsulate is, like you talked about, 955 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:32,720 Speaker 1: is the time that grief, you know, in a movie 956 00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,040 Speaker 1: where it's an hour and a half, right, and we're 957 00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,960 Speaker 1: sitting there and you're hearing the stories, and you think 958 00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,440 Speaker 1: there is an emotional component and we can tap into that. 959 00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:49,280 Speaker 1: But grief is such this vast thing, and it's funny, 960 00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:53,560 Speaker 1: right because it comes and goes for each of us 961 00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,840 Speaker 1: in a different way. And I will always say to people, 962 00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,280 Speaker 1: the amount of grief that you will feel commensurate with 963 00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,080 Speaker 1: the amount of love that you felt for that person. 964 00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,440 Speaker 1: And that's a good thing, right. So for me and 965 00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:12,200 Speaker 1: my grandfather, this guy, you know, I was like son 966 00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,320 Speaker 1: Rose and said on this man. So when he died, 967 00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:19,320 Speaker 1: I was wrecked. And then I would look over at 968 00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,840 Speaker 1: my other brothers who just who just weren't around. They 969 00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,560 Speaker 1: were at college or law school, and I was there 970 00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,240 Speaker 1: going to dinner with my grandfather would come to all 971 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,840 Speaker 1: my sports games, and you know, we just had a 972 00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,880 Speaker 1: different relationship. And I was like, why are you not 973 00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,960 Speaker 1: hurting like I'm hurting. And my middle brother, I remember 974 00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,200 Speaker 1: it like it was yesterday. He said, I just didn't 975 00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,320 Speaker 1: have that relationship that you had. You and Oopah were 976 00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:47,880 Speaker 1: super close. Kupa's grandfather in German, and he it was 977 00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,680 Speaker 1: and he wasn't jealous, he wasn't angry, he wasn't it 978 00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,880 Speaker 1: was just, hey, Chris, you and him were best friends 979 00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,480 Speaker 1: and that wasn't my relationship. So that I think is 980 00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:04,360 Speaker 1: really important. If you're hurting, it's good because you had 981 00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:08,760 Speaker 1: a lot of love for that person. Yeah. I love 982 00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:13,800 Speaker 1: that well, Chris. As you know, the podcast is called 983 00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,360 Speaker 1: work in progress, and my favorite thing to ask everyone 984 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,000 Speaker 1: who joins me for these conversations is when you hear 985 00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:23,320 Speaker 1: the phrase, what comes to mind, whether it's personal or 986 00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:27,040 Speaker 1: professional or or anything. Really as a work in progress 987 00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,480 Speaker 1: in your life right now, I kind of feel like, 988 00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,480 Speaker 1: are we all kind of works? I mean, that's what 989 00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:36,120 Speaker 1: That's what's so great about your the title because I 990 00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:39,640 Speaker 1: think you know it and again I think, uh, you're 991 00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:43,520 Speaker 1: very introspective, and I think your connection with nature and 992 00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,200 Speaker 1: it's really important. I think you know, as tell me 993 00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,040 Speaker 1: if you felt this way, because as a young man, 994 00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,360 Speaker 1: I was always like, you know, you're trying to like 995 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,200 Speaker 1: kind of keep up with the Joneses. And again I 996 00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,560 Speaker 1: talked about that have a trail and you're trying to 997 00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,960 Speaker 1: you think the magazine or the videos have showed you 998 01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,160 Speaker 1: a way to live for we want them may back 999 01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,919 Speaker 1: in the crystal and all this, and I think that 1000 01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:13,000 Speaker 1: we're all work in progress. Is whether you're a thirty 1001 01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,720 Speaker 1: seven year old woman, a fifty four year old man, 1002 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,480 Speaker 1: an eighteen year old kid, we're all works in progress. 1003 01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:23,800 Speaker 1: And if we could tell our younger selves that, hey man, 1004 01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:27,760 Speaker 1: you've got time, go make the mistakes, now, that's the 1005 01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,920 Speaker 1: good stuff. For me, that's the good stuff. But I'm 1006 01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:34,000 Speaker 1: working in progress here. I don't have it all figured out. 1007 01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,520 Speaker 1: And if my eighteen year old self knew that, I 1008 01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:43,240 Speaker 1: think things would be a lot more relaxed. Right day. 1009 01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,680 Speaker 1: Is that that brick, right, whether it's that memory brick, 1010 01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,680 Speaker 1: and we're building a long term house here, and it's 1011 01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,000 Speaker 1: one brick at a time. You can't just throw everything 1012 01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:59,240 Speaker 1: off and have a house. It takes days, it takes years, 1013 01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:02,919 Speaker 1: it takes life time. So that's that's that's the work 1014 01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:07,200 Speaker 1: in progress. I love the title. Thank you, thank you 1015 01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,479 Speaker 1: so much, thanks for joining us today. I really am 1016 01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,800 Speaker 1: excited for people to hear this conversation and to read 1017 01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:18,280 Speaker 1: your book. Thank you, Thank you very much. I appreciate 1018 01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,160 Speaker 1: the time and giving me the opportunity have a great day. 1019 01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:27,920 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you too. This show is executive produced 1020 01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:32,160 Speaker 1: by me Sophia Bush and sim Sarna. Our associate producer 1021 01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:35,880 Speaker 1: is Caitlyn Lee, Our editor is Josh Wendish, and our 1022 01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,840 Speaker 1: music was written by Jack Garrett and produced by Mark Foster. 1023 01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:44,120 Speaker 1: This show is brought to you by Crillion Anatomy m