WEBVTT - Doubt, Part Six: Hope 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:07.680 Okay, so what what is the actual address to this website? Okay, 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:12.480 so there's v A E R S dot H H 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:17.200 S dot gov. Let me uh black at you. My 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.600 producer Tofer and I are checking out a website known 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:27.360 as THEIRS. That acronym stands for Vaccine Adverse Reporting System. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.840 It's a federal database where anyone can report potential side 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:35.280 effects they've experienced after getting vaccinated. It's basically intended to 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.160 be an early warning system for possible problems with vaccines. 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:43.240 The data is totally public. The first thing, it says 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:45.760 that there's been forty four thousand, eight hundred and fifty 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:51.040 six adverse events related to the COVID nineteen vaccine. That 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:55.680 doesn't sound so bad for millions of time, millions of 0:00:55.720 --> 0:01:01.319 people being vaccinated every day. In very urs you can 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:05.000 read all of the details of injuries people say happened 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.600 after getting vaccinated. But it's important to know that not 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.880 every health issue that comes up after getting a vaccine 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:17.960 is necessarily caused by a vaccine. Bronco spasm with coughing 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:22.160 tongue itching. I know, I don't know if I've ever 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.840 had an ischy tongue. It's not just injuries. You can 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:34.560 look up how many deaths were there there were. Okay, 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.480 now let me back up and say that before you 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:45.160 get to any of this, there is an extremely prominent 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:48.840 and detailed disclaimer that you have to click through. The 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:53.360 disclaimer is very clear that just because an injury is 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:58.400 reported here does not mean a vaccine caused that injury. 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.480 You actually have to click that you read the disclaimer 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.640 in order to view the data. The fact is anyone 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.639 can report a claim to this website and it'll show up. 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.760 That doesn't mean it's true. It's just a claim that 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.440 will help the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:19.440 the Food and Drug Administration catch any troubling side effects 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.720 that are occurring because of vaccines. And this is just 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.720 one of many ways the federal government monitors these things. 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.840 This is just good responsible science. When you have a 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:36.160 mass vaccination campaign, you want to keep an eye on 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:41.079 it in case any truly troubling patterns emerge. These systems 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:47.200 have helped flag problems before the CDC recommended a roadavirus 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:51.920 vaccine be pulled from market. That was after fifteen cases 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.320 of vowel obstruction among infants who received the vaccine had 0:02:55.320 --> 0:03:00.639 been reported in THEIRS. These kinds of monitoring effort are 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.760 why the CDC decided to pause the Johnson and Johnson 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.040 vaccine roll out in April after six people who got 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:12.760 it experienced blood clots. This is the system working, not 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:18.119 a problem with the system. But correlation is not causation. 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.720 Every report in vrors is not indicative of a catastrophic 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:28.560 vaccine side effect. In the anti vax world, virors has 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:33.680 long occupied this sort of contradictory territory. It's both something 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:38.480 untrustworthy and proof that vaccines are not as safe as 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.880 the government says. So they have argued for for years 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.960 that the data can't be trusted. UM, that the CDC 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.760 and the FDA, UM if there's an event that's credible 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.000 that's reported to it, that they don't act on it intentionally. 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.960 Um And then it's all part of a government conspiracy 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:03.360 to hide the actual adverse events due to due to immunization. 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.800 This is Joe Smiser. He's the head of the Public 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:11.840 Good Projects, a public health nonprofit that has been analyzing 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:16.960 vaccine misinformation over the past year. Joe has noticed anti 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.440 vaccine groups changing their script a bit here and now 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:27.120 they're saying that in addition to THEIRS not being trusted, 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:32.240 also you should report to THEIRS and any any adverse event, 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.919 make sure you report to THEIRS. Robert F. Kennedy Juniors 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:40.560 organization the Children's Health Defense encourages people to report to errors. 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:45.160 It also frequently sends out newsletters with subject lines trumpeting 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:48.240 the numbers of injuries or deaths reported in the database 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:52.840 after COVID vaccines. All of the context of the disclaimers 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:57.120 in the database, though, are conveniently missing. The way Joe 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:02.400 explains it, groups like Kennedy's have basic weaponized bears, and 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.599 they'll look for any adverse event and then they'll turn 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.400 that into media. So there'll be memes and videos, and 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.440 there are very popular videos of people just going through 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:17.320 every single instance of someone reporting an adverse event to bears, 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:18.800 and they'll read it out loud, and some of these 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.400 videos are two and a half hours long of the 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:24.080 person just reading out loud all of the things reported 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.559 to bears. And then at the same time, the same 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.039 groups and the same individuals will say, Okay, well that 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:33.400 can't be trusted, so go to this new system. So 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:38.039 basically they get believers to report alleged injuries. Then they 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.839 make content out of those stats. It is a self 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:47.400 perpetuating panic machine. The anti vaccine movement doesn't so much 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:55.520 manufacture reality as manipulated bears. Is one of the latest 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:59.800 lines of attack from anti vaccine groups for causing doubt 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:05.960 round vaccines. Somehow various data is untrustworthy and also proof 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:11.080 of everything anti vaccine groups are saying. Despite this giant 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:17.040 cognitive disconnect, this message has spread far and wide. Mike 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.080 Joe says, there are videos of people just doing the 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.799 same thing we did, checking out the data and reading 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.760 it aloud. That is ungentleman. I'm wanted to see d 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:29.760 sees web page right, and I decided that I needed 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.440 to see the results for the vaccines and their simptoms 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:39.720 and the dead that this particular video was viewed more 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:45.039 than twenty one thousand times on Facebook. When they get 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.080 to the alleged deaths, the speaker in the video just 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:52.560 starts scrolling through the hundreds of cases. Dare marry a 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:56.640 dead people? Dead people? Oh, nobody not talked about the 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.960 people are dead from the vaccine, much less COVID. It's 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:06.479 the video doesn't mention any other context. All the average 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:10.880 person would see is an endless stream of alleged deaths 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:19.000 related to COVID vaccines. And by the way, Facebook has 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.000 put a disclaimer on the top of this video that 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.280 says it's missing context, but you can still see it 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:33.760 and share it. Not ability to distort reality is one 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:36.920 of the reasons why anti vaccine extremists have had a 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:41.840 good year. Today, these groups are more powerful than ever. 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:47.360 Misinformation is running rampant. Only about a third of the 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:52.240 US population is fully vaccinated, and it's unclear exactly when 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:57.240 we will get to widespread immunity from the virus. Doubt reigns, 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:05.600 but there is hope. In the final episode of this series, 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:10.160 we're going to look forward. The majority of Americans are 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.400 now faced with the choice of whether to get vaccinated 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:17.360 against COVID nineteen. We're going to examine how the medical 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:23.000 establishment and public health has failed in inspiring vaccine confidence 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:27.040 and what can be done to fix it. One of 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.920 the answers to that question can be found in the 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:35.800 least likely of places. I'm Bloomberg News health reporter Kristin V. 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:54.160 Brown from the Pregnosis podcast. This is Doubt. Joe Smizer 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:58.480 of the Public Good Projects says anti vaccine groups are 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:05.079 in an especially strong position. I think is going to 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.640 be the year of the anti vaccor. Like they're getting 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.720 more money than ever before, they're more organized never before. 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:13.840 They actually have elected representatives who believe in their viewpoints. 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:18.800 They're more global than ever before, and so the infrastructure 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.200 is so much more solid than it than it ever 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.840 has been. This has just added so much fuel onto 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.920 their their fire, and now we've got signal fires all 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:30.320 over the all over the globe. It's it's what they've 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:35.800 been hoping for. Um, It's it's a global mass immunization effort. 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.600 This is a big problem. As we've shown in this series, 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.120 anti vaccine groups have been refining how to spread out 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:49.000 for decades. Andrew Wakefield gave vaccine skepticism of a new 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.240 or of science. Jenny McCarthy, I mean it part of 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.520 popular culture, and newer waves of anti vaccine activists like 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:00.520 Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Have used social media to turn 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:06.160 this messaging into viral content. The groundwork for an explosion 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:10.880 of anti vaccine sentiment had been laid long before the 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:15.440 global pandemic. This worries Joe. I don't think we're going 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:19.160 to go back. That's that's my concern is I think, 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.760 like I mentioned, that infrastructure is just so well built now. 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:29.559 Going into there had already been massive protests against vaccine mandates. 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:35.400 Estates tried to tighten childhood ammunization laws. So it's easy 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.400 to see why it didn't take very long for talk 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:43.600 about COVID vaccines to turn to talk about vaccine skepticism, 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:49.280 like way before any vaccine was anywhere near ready, And 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.240 we saw that all through the spring. If you follow 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.720 news reporting on on covid um, there was a lot 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:58.400 of reporting started pretty much right away what if people 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:00.840 won't take a vaccine for COVID when we have one? 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:05.199 And it was mostly using the misinformation frame as a 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:09.200 kind of explanatory framework for why people um didn't want 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.480 to vaccinate. And then the misinformation frame is pretty pervasive. 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:18.400 Bernice Housman studies medical controversies at Penn State College of Medicine. 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.760 Bernice breaks it down like this, there are two different 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.239 theories that people generally use for why people are skeptical 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:30.840 of vaccines. The first one is that misinformation is to blame. 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:35.240 All those viral Facebook videos are causing people to suddenly 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.720 turn on vaccines. As we have talked about a lot 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:43.520 in this series, The explanation is just overly simplistic. If 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.440 you have no other reason to distrust vaccines, one video 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:50.840 isn't necessarily going to change your mind about them. And 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:55.040 thinking about misinformation as the main driver of vaccine skepticism, 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.480 it's problematic because you're never going to fix the problem 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:03.000 if you're not address saying the real cause. And Bernie says, 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.559 that's where the second theory comes into play. But another 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.240 frame started to emerge over the summer and is now 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.600 supplanting the misinformation frame, and I think it's a really 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:18.840 really positive development. People started talking about confidence and trust. 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:24.600 Bernice says three main things helped spur this shift. One 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:30.360 is that UM, the data from COVID demonstrates, you know, 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:34.000 really severe existing health disparities along the lines of race 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:38.000 and ethnicity in this country and also associate economic status. 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:41.520 Now everybody has known that this these exist, but the 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:45.960 COVID pandemic has actually really brought that into public view 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:51.400 and made people understand that um vulnerability to COVID is 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.360 really based on these kinds of social justice issues. It 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:59.040 wasn't news that there are deep health disparities in America, 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.840 but the pandemic made those disparities very public. It was 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.080 just harder to ignore when so many more people of 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:12.679 color were dying from the virus. Secondly, Bernie says, all 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.400 the protests of last summer after the murder of George 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:20.120 Floyd helped to publicize concerns about trust. So they also 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.640 brought out the issue of social justice and especially concerns 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:29.320 that black communities have about trust and authority. And the 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:34.440 Trump administrations handling of vaccine development also brought trust into 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:38.760 the conversation. Vaccine dissenters have been saying all along that 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.359 there's a problem of corruption between the government pharmaceutical companies 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.480 um UM, and these federal agencies. So in the summer, 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.600 ordinary people saw that that could actually happen. Remember all 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.160 those news stories about the White House meddling with the 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.720 f d A and the CDC. Suddenly everyone was talking 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:03.680 about trust and scenes. So suddenly all of that has led, 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.520 I believe, to this big shift in public health where 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.679 now we see the people talking about vaccine confidence. How 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:14.000 do you build vaccine confidence if we're going to get 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:17.880 more people on board with vaccination. This shift in thinking 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.320 is crucial. Now when you think about it, those two 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:26.880 frames misinformation and confidence are really different. The misinformation frame 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:31.800 identifies the individual who believes the misinformation as the problem 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.920 who needs to be educated. The confidence frame says, people 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:41.840 lack confidence in vaccine programs and we need to demonstrate 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.080 that we We need to earn their trust so that 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.480 they have confidence in these programs. So it shifts the 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:53.880 burden to public health agencies, the government, public health workers 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:59.920 themselves medical practitioners to understand the reasons for the lack 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:04.400 of confidence and think about ways to rebuild trust. The 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.280 truth is, our public health officials haven't always done a 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.400 great job of communicating with us about vaccine safety. This 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.400 is a big factor and why so many people are 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:20.240 skeptical of vaccines right now. Take THEIRS for instance, most 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:23.920 people who have heard of THEIRS probably learned about it 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.880 from an anti vaccine group because there just isn't otherwise 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:32.560 enthusiasm for talking about problems with vaccines. This makes it 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.960 seem plausible that the government is trying to hide this data, 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:40.520 even though it's totally public and out there for anyone 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:45.280 to look at. Anti vaccine groups are just exacerbating existing 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:50.640 weaknesses and how we talk about vaccines, and really, when 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.880 there's a lack of formal information. We will always see 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:57.880 the rise of informal information because people want information, and 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:00.560 we saw that early in the pandemic with death dumentaries 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:05.080 like Plandemic that's a so called documentary filled with misinformation 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.200 that became very popular at the start of the pandemic, 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.120 which filled that gap when there wasn't any official information 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.840 coming out from government agencies about the pandemic and its 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.520 levels of contagion and how to contain it. When we 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.760 had gaps in information, we've seen those spaces filled with 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:25.120 other kinds of misinformation. This is Jennifer Reich, a sociologist 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:30.640 University of Colorado, Denver who studies vaccine hesitant people. She 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:34.000 says public health is not doing a great job of 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:38.440 explaining how they make sure COVID vaccines are safe, and 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:43.280 so I was surprised to learn how many systems monitor 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:49.720 vaccine safety by doing things like looking at large health 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.520 maintenance organizations and looking for upticks and emergency room visits 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.720 within the first few days after a vaccination, and then 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.280 looking for patterns that are statistically important to and go 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.800 back and look at the vaccines, and that has been 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:07.560 successful in identifying very rare adverse reactions to vaccines like 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.440 the vaccine against rotavirus. So there is this real time 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.760 kind of monitoring of both safety and efficacy that happens 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.600 that nobody talks about and that has remained largely invisible 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.879 prior to COVID, and I think during COVID. Imagine if 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.440 the CDC had been proactive about informing people about THEIRS, 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:29.960 then put ads on YouTube explaining safety standards around vaccines 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.439 before you watch your little nos X video, that wouldn't 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.119 just help combat misinformation, but also help gather more data 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:43.000 to monitor vaccine safety. Jennifer says, most people want good information. 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.240 It just hasn't been as readily offered to the public. 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:48.760 But the majority of people right now who are saying 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.639 I want to wait and see are asking for better information. 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.800 They are asking to have a conversation, and they want 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:58.040 to know what they can do. UM I'm surprised in 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.280 my research to hear how many people are still wiping 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.200 down their groceries and surfaces but not worrying about the air. 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:06.040 It's we're really far into that to have people not 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.280 fully understand how to the best assign their energies towards 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:13.159 the best strategies for limiting infection that should that's a 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:18.320 lack of clarity that has gone on too long and 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.080 needs to be addressed, I think directly. But we could 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.680 go even further to help people make the right decision 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:29.400 and give them more than just good information. For example, 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:31.520 if people are worried they might be out for a 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.920 day or two after getting the shop, which is totally possible, 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.760 we can make sure people have paid leave to make 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.560 the choice to get vaccinated easier. And while access to 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:45.480 information is important, it's not the sole driver of decision making, 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.480 and so what's also important is to think about how 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.960 does this fit into people's priorities, How does it fit 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.760 into their work life, how does it fit into their resources, 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.520 how does it fit into their community and their values? Right, 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.080 how do we think about this more holistically and then 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.959 figure out are their spaces where people are saying they 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.520 need something different. We need to give people the information 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:10.479 and the resources to make the right choice. Right now, 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.960 we're all living little bubbles. We interact with fewer people 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:19.080 and do it more cautiously. We're literally distancing from each other, 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.199 and that means we're all living in echo chambers with 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.840 less exposure than ever to new points of view. That's 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.200 exacerbating all of this too. When people make decisions about 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:33.680 vaccines or anything, really, we all look to those around 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.200 us who who share our lifestyle, who seems similar to us, 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.080 who understand where we're coming from. And it's why churches 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:43.080 have become such an important rule um in the conversation. 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.840 It's why people look to their community networks. It's why 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.439 there's evidence that barbershops and beauticians have become really important 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.919 sources of health information. People talk to the people that 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:56.000 they trust. The challenge right now during COVID is that 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.080 we've really limited the number of spaces in which people 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.560 can have comm stations of people they don't already know. 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.840 It's hard to have close, intimate conversations during a time 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.280 when social distancing is recommended and people are scared of 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:14.679 a highly infectious disease. But there is one place in 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:19.600 particular where people have been having those conversations and it's 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:24.080 been helping to re establish trust with the vaccine. Let's 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:34.919 take a trip to West Virginia. West Virginia isn't the 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:38.439 state you'd expect to be a vaccine success story. The 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:43.280 state is extremely rural and registered Republicans now outnumbered Democrats 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.480 These are two groups that we know are among the 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:50.600 most skeptical of vaccines. It's mountainous terrain and spread out 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:55.639 population also create logistical challenges for delivering vaccines. Many of 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.600 its residents are also poor, with health conditions that make 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:03.040 them especially at risk for severe cases of COVID. A 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:07.240 survey by West Virginia University shortly before vaccines began rolling 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:12.200 out found that about half the population expressed some level 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:17.400 of vaccine hesitation. But despite all of these obstacles, West 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:20.359 Virginia has become a model for other states when it 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:24.440 comes to vaccination efforts. By mid February, it had already 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.159 used up more than a percent of the vaccines it 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:31.240 had been allotted, the first state to do so. And 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.400 the reason West Virginia is so successful in vaccinating its 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:39.199 population has to do with people like Drew Massey. I 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:43.760 have mentioned first your Hometown Family Pharmacy. Drew is the 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:48.440 clinical director for Fruit Pharmacies. It's one of West Virginia's 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:52.720 biggest pharmacy chains, but it doesn't feel like it. Massey says, 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.840 their locations feel like they're part of their local communities. 0:21:56.359 --> 0:22:00.000 For example, not that long ago Drew noticed someone else 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:02.920 side the store whose car needed to jump. We had 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:04.880 somebody in the parking lot. They were using their blinkers 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:07.359 and their battery went dead. Totally nothing to do with 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:09.919 the shot, nothing to do with pharmacy. Went and got 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:11.760 the jumper cables, got my car and went over and 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.719 jumped the guy. And I was laughing because I'm like, 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.720 you know, he's not going to think about that me 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:20.200 necessarily when he talks about his his um COVID shot, 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:22.639 but he will remember the guy that came out here 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:24.720 in the parking lot and jumped his car for him, 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:28.560 wearing wearing his pharmacy smock. Drew told me about the 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:32.119 fruit store in Nitro, that's a town of seven thousand 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:35.520 people where he's based. He says, people will happily wait 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:40.400 hours for a prescription, just chatting with their neighbors. Literally, 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:42.560 you can tell the people it would be three hours. 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.000 They would get a root beer out of the cooler, 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:46.760 they would sit down in one of the chairs. They 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:49.119 used to have rocking chairs out front of the pharmacy, 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:51.000 and they would stay there for two or three hours 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:53.840 and they wouldn't care. Pretty much, everything I heard from 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.240 Drew seemed to exemplify what I've heard about the best 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:01.760 ways to address hesitancy. He gives people good information, but 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:06.200 while listening to their concerns about vaccines. Instead of dismissing them, 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:10.879 he addresses those specific concerns and all of that information 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:14.359 is coming from someone in the community that the people 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:17.679 Drew is talking with trust. I think a lot of 0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:19.480 times in the healthcare field, I think a lot of 0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:21.679 us get into the thing that we're providing information and 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:25.280 it's either cold and stagnant, or it seems like it's 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.000 coming from I'm up here and you're down here, and 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:30.960 it's not really a conversation. It's more like I'm talking 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:33.400 down to you. And I don't think that people key 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:35.159 in on that. Nobody wants to be talked down to. 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:42.320 West Virginia had some things going for it when it 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:45.600 came to the vaccine rollout. It's got a small population 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:50.520 about the size of Phoenix, Arizona, and as everyone you 0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:53.040 will ever talk to from West Virginia will tell you, 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:57.880 it's a very community oriented place. Um when people say 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:00.639 you have a tight knit community and everyone knows everyone 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:04.080 in West Virginia, it's it's almost true. This is i'n 0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:07.320 I'm John Iron is a physician as well as the 0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:10.640 top health officer in the state. She is West Virginia 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:13.560 born and raised. It's such a different feeling when you 0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:16.320 walk down the street people say hi to you and smile. 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:19.000 I mean, it's just a different vibe. You go through 0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:21.719 d C you smile and say hi, people look at 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:23.760 you like you're weird. But here if you don't say hi, 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:28.000 it's almost rude. At the start of the vaccine rollout, 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:32.760 Iron says, West Virginia made a decision that would prove key. 0:24:33.000 --> 0:24:36.840 Every other state signed onto a federal program partnering with 0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:41.200 CBS and Walgreens to vaccinate nursing homes, West Virginia didn't. 0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:44.800 They went with the local guys like Fruth. But we 0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:48.120 don't have a wall Greens and CVS on on every corner. 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:52.479 And so we felt like in West Virginia, since these 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:57.720 long term care facilities and a fruit pharmacy or a 0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:02.680 locally owned pharmacy was our coming into a long term 0:25:02.680 --> 0:25:06.320 care facility, they knew the patients, um the records were 0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:09.920 already there. There was that trust built in with them. 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:13.160 We could have this accomplished at a faster rate. Rather 0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:16.600 than getting into the nitty gritty with the federal pharmacy. 0:25:16.760 --> 0:25:20.320 This was important for a few reasons. First off, it 0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:22.639 was just a better way to get the vaccine to 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:26.879 the many rural pockets of the state. And like I says, 0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:31.200 there was trust and logistics in place because these pharmacies, 0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:34.359 in many cases already visited facilities to take care of 0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:38.280 other medical needs or do COVID testing. The pharmacists giving 0:25:38.280 --> 0:25:42.119 out the shots were part of the community. One locally 0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:46.080 owned pharmacist, they weren't able to go in UM for 0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:49.159 that second round. They had a personal family emergency, so 0:25:49.200 --> 0:25:51.919 we offered to send in a backup team to do that. 0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:54.600 He said, no, UM, just give me one day to 0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:58.399 take care of this family business emergency. And he wanted 0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:01.160 to go into that UM long from care facility because 0:26:01.240 --> 0:26:04.480 him and his team they knew the patients. That's West 0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:06.920 Virginia for you. It is not just a job for them, 0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:10.000 It is family to them. They know these patients, they 0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:12.080 want to do what they know them by their first name. 0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:16.520 Even Fine says those relationships were key not just in 0:26:16.600 --> 0:26:19.840 getting the roll out to go smoothly, but also in 0:26:19.920 --> 0:26:26.320 making people comfortable opting into vaccination. Getting it into local pharmacies. 0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:30.360 You know, and we have community partners with churches, places 0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:32.520 where you can go and ask all the questions you 0:26:32.560 --> 0:26:35.600 need and get proper answers. Makes a big deal for 0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:41.080 people who are vaccine deliberating vaccine and different right now, 0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:44.359 people who don't trust the vaccine process, because they're going 0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:48.320 to trust asking those questions to you know, those people 0:26:48.400 --> 0:26:51.320 that they are most comfortable asking, you know, basic questions 0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:53.919