Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wikayeff Daily with Meet
Speaker 1: your Girl Danielle Moody, recording live from our pod stream
Speaker 1: studios here in Times Square, Folks, The fallout continues from
Speaker 1: the whistle bower of Francis Hagen's deep, deep dive into
Speaker 1: Facebook's decision to you know, put profit ahead of people,
Speaker 1: as we all know they've been doing. Zuckerberg, even though
Speaker 1: he lost seven billion dollars this week, is still you know,
Speaker 1: hella fucking rich. And what pisces me off beyond belief
Speaker 1: about this continual fallout is one his bullshit statement that
Speaker 1: he put out this week that basically says, oh that
Speaker 1: Francis doesn't know what she's talking about, because you know,
Speaker 1: evidently she can't read their own internal Facebook reports that
Speaker 1: tell us exactly what it is that they've been doing.
Speaker 1: That they were able to fix algorithms so that they
Speaker 1: could skew against misinformation for the twenty twenty election, but
Speaker 1: then once the election was done, they could flip the switch,
Speaker 1: change the algorithm back so that people were continuing to
Speaker 1: get misinformation, spread hate, and do all of the vile
Speaker 1: things that we know that people are doing on social media.
Speaker 1: And once again he is taking absolutely no responsibility for
Speaker 1: it and feigning dumb. And my question, now, folks, is this,
Speaker 1: does he think that we are all stupid? Like? This
Speaker 1: is what is happening with these people right who make
Speaker 1: a ton of fucking money. We know that in order
Speaker 1: to become a multibillionaire, chances are you're not doing it
Speaker 1: on the up and up. Now, I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg is a criminal, but I'm saying that what bleeds leads, right,
Speaker 1: So we know that hate groups, we know that, you know,
Speaker 1: Russian misinformation, China interference, all of these things are happening,
Speaker 1: and they could do something about it. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, it would disrupt Facebook's profits. Now
Speaker 1: here's the thing. They're not saying they wouldn't make money.
Speaker 1: It's not as if doing right and having morals and
Speaker 1: values would stop them from making money. No, they just
Speaker 1: wouldn't make as much, right, And so one of the
Speaker 1: questions that I want answered is exactly how much money
Speaker 1: would they stand to lose? Like? Are they still making
Speaker 1: billions upon billions of dollars a year? I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: that they fucking are. And so the desire here to
Speaker 1: once again try and pretend that they don't know what
Speaker 1: they're doing. That, oh, Francis couldn't possibly read these reports,
Speaker 1: and because she wasn't sitting in these groups, doesn't know
Speaker 1: what we all know, which is that social media also
Speaker 1: harms young people. How is that, Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Because when you're inundated with images of beauty or beauty
Speaker 1: expectations that are outside of normal bodies, then yeah, you're
Speaker 1: going to start to look at yourself and say that
Speaker 1: there's something wrong with you. The reality, folks, is, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, Facebook needs to be regulated, right,
Speaker 1: algorithms need to be regulated. This mega monopoly that they
Speaker 1: have needs to be broken up, and Francis has provided
Speaker 1: the roadmap for Congress to do so. The question is
Speaker 1: whether or not they will. I want to bring up
Speaker 1: a recent report that all in Together, Women Leading Change
Speaker 1: put together to showcase the polling. Folks, again, we're talking
Speaker 1: about twenty twenty two midterm elections, and I've been talking
Speaker 1: about this because it's right around the corner. We only
Speaker 1: have but a couple of months left in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1: Can you believe that let me just pause for a second.
Speaker 1: It is, folks, going to be twenty twenty two, meaning
Speaker 1: that we've been living in the midst of a global
Speaker 1: health pandemic for going on two years. Like, let's wrap
Speaker 1: your mind around that. But the All in Together poll
Speaker 1: shows young people and I want people to pay attention,
Speaker 1: feel less motivated ahead of twenty twenty two election cycle.
Speaker 1: So let me read you this directly from All in
Speaker 1: Together's page, and then we'll discuss The nonpartisan advocacy group
Speaker 1: All in Together has teamed up with Lake Research in
Speaker 1: Emerson College Polling to explore what is motivating people as
Speaker 1: we look forward to the twenty twenty two men terms.
Speaker 1: This survey looked at a thousand registered voters nationwide from
Speaker 1: September twenty second to the twenty fourth, with a three
Speaker 1: negative three point one margin of era. This survey also
Speaker 1: oversampled two hundred Black women, two hundred Latin women, and
Speaker 1: two hundred Asian American Pacific Islander women. The oversamples were
Speaker 1: weighted down to reflect their actual proportion of women. The
Speaker 1: survey was conducted using a mixed method of IVR online
Speaker 1: and SMS to the web. Here is what they found
Speaker 1: and this is what is concerning. According to All in Together,
Speaker 1: there is an enthusiasm gap in voting among young voters.
Speaker 1: AI TS New Poland shows a massive enthusiasm gap between generations.
Speaker 1: Younger voters are at least motivated age group to vote.
Speaker 1: Only thirty five percent of eighteen to twenty nine year
Speaker 1: old voters are very motivated to vote, and only twenty
Speaker 1: eight percent are almost certain to vote next year, compared
Speaker 1: to fifty two point nine percent and fifty one point
Speaker 1: two percent, respectively of the overall electorate. This is after
Speaker 1: they say record youth turnout in twenty twenty. So here's
Speaker 1: one of the things that I want to unpack, which
Speaker 1: is this, This is the problem that Democrats are going
Speaker 1: to be facing as they go into twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: because you see Republicans set up right the fact that
Speaker 1: they are an obstructionist group. They don't actually give a
Speaker 1: fuck about governing, and quite honestly, they're terrible at it.
Speaker 1: Because Donald Trump within his presidency added roughly seven trillion
Speaker 1: dollars to the national debt. Every single time that a
Speaker 1: Republican is in power, our debt rises right astronomically. But
Speaker 1: here's the thing. Republicans also don't promise you shit. They
Speaker 1: don't promise you policy change. They don't promise to make
Speaker 1: your lives better, right. What they do offer is to
Speaker 1: roll back rights and to assume to create a Christian
Speaker 1: fundamentalist authoritarian society. This is what they propose. So you see,
Speaker 1: folks don't look to the Republican Party for anything really.
Speaker 1: But the problem is that Democrats and Joe Biden in particular,
Speaker 1: when he was campaigning, said that he was going to
Speaker 1: be the adult in the room, that we were going
Speaker 1: to what build back better together, that he was going
Speaker 1: to be the one that was going to be able
Speaker 1: to negotiate with the domestic terrorists that we call the GOP,
Speaker 1: and that he was going to be able to get
Speaker 1: the job done of putting America back on the map. Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing, folks. We have yet to put together
Speaker 1: the infrastructure bill, right, the three point five trillion dollar bill.
Speaker 1: We just reached a decision, right, an agreement on raising
Speaker 1: the debt ceiling, but that just kicked the can down
Speaker 1: the road until December. Mitch McConnell did, in fact blink.
Speaker 1: But again, this is not an overall fix. It's a
Speaker 1: band aid on a broken leg. Because we should not
Speaker 1: need to have an active Congress or a vote to
Speaker 1: continually raise our debt ceiling. It should be something that
Speaker 1: automatically kicks in, right, and we know that the debt
Speaker 1: ceiling was raised three times under the Trump administration so
Speaker 1: that they could spend fucking widely and offer up all
Speaker 1: of their tax cuts to the uber wealthy. I digress.
Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is that Democrats are the
Speaker 1: party of promises. They promise us a lot, and unfortunately,
Speaker 1: going against the reality of an obstructionist right wing party,
Speaker 1: they are not able to deliver. So when young people
Speaker 1: risk their lives and people of color in twenty twenty
Speaker 1: to have a historic turnout, they did so not just
Speaker 1: because they wanted to get rid of Donald Trump, but
Speaker 1: because they needed someone to take control of COVID nineteen. Well,
Speaker 1: here we are, folks, where we have reached. Seven hundred
Speaker 1: thousand Americans have died of COVID nineteen. The vaccination rate
Speaker 1: has reached a plateau. We have a little bit more
Speaker 1: people getting vaccinated, but that's really just people getting the
Speaker 1: booster shots. Right. Fizer has has just asked the FDA
Speaker 1: to certify the vaccinations for five to eleven year olds, right,
Speaker 1: and to ramp that up so that that could possibly
Speaker 1: have twenty eight million more people vaccinated if we expand
Speaker 1: it to that age group again. But there is still folks,
Speaker 1: a substantial amount of Americans that are not vaccinated, and
Speaker 1: the rollout has been up and down. One minute, we're
Speaker 1: told to wear a mask, the next minute we're told
Speaker 1: not to. One minute, we're told to social distance, the
Speaker 1: next minute we're told not to. One minute, we're told
Speaker 1: that the fis of vaccination is one hundred percent great,
Speaker 1: and then the next minute we learned maderna is better.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it is not our responsibility as
Speaker 1: an educated citizensury not to be intellectually nimble. We need that.
Speaker 1: But the reality is is that the entirety of the
Speaker 1: vaccination rollout hasn't gone according to plan because I don't
Speaker 1: think that Democrats once again had their eyes wide open
Speaker 1: to what it was that Republicans were going to do.
Speaker 1: That there was going to be an entire network like
Speaker 1: Fox News that was going to be an anti vaccine
Speaker 1: network that has tens of millions of people that are
Speaker 1: viewing it every single day. The other reality, right, we
Speaker 1: don't have the infrastructure bill, and so when we're going
Speaker 1: to the polls, when Democrats are getting ready to campaign.
Speaker 1: What the fuck are they campaigning on? Because we've lost
Speaker 1: women's rights right in Texas right now. We know that
Speaker 1: a judge has intervened, The federal judge in Texas has
Speaker 1: put a stop right on the band. But that's just
Speaker 1: going to be kicked to the Fifth Circuit Court, which
Speaker 1: we know is extremely conservative, and then we'll make its
Speaker 1: way up to Trump's Supreme Court. Right, So, what is
Speaker 1: the likelihood that we don't lose women's rights all together?
Speaker 1: And mind you, just let me mind you that December
Speaker 1: first is going to be when the Supreme Court starts
Speaker 1: hearing the Mississippi case, which is about a fifteen week
Speaker 1: abortion ban. Right then, on top of that, we can't
Speaker 1: pass the John Lewis Voting Rights at and we can't
Speaker 1: do anything about the over three hundred bills that have
Speaker 1: been pushed out across a majority of the states in
Speaker 1: this country to suppress the vote. So when young people
Speaker 1: are looking at their fucking future right now, does it
Speaker 1: look bright to anybody? No, it does it. It looks
Speaker 1: like they're inheriting a lot of bullshit baggage from the
Speaker 1: boomers and down. So when we're looking at these numbers,
Speaker 1: I don't want us to turn around and start blaming
Speaker 1: young people, right, because this is where it goes. If
Speaker 1: Democrats lose in mid terms, who you think it's going
Speaker 1: to be the scapegoats. It's gonna be black people, and
Speaker 1: it's gonna be young people, as opposed to saying, here's
Speaker 1: the thing, you haven't delivered. Shit, We delivered you Congress
Speaker 1: and the fucking White House and you can't get dick done.
Speaker 1: So how is it that we're supposed to be the
Speaker 1: ones that are creating the enthusiasm when we have a
Speaker 1: democratic administration and a democratic Congress that is at a
Speaker 1: what a stalemate with themselves? So of course you have
Speaker 1: eighteen to twenty nine year olds that are looking around
Speaker 1: and saying, fuck this, what am I voting for? And
Speaker 1: it's not just them, And I can't say that I
Speaker 1: blame them because again, we're looking around. It has been
Speaker 1: nine months, nine months into this administration, and we have
Speaker 1: gotten very little done, and our democracy is on the
Speaker 1: fucking line, and people are looking around and saying, we
Speaker 1: can't address climate change head on. We don't have massive
Speaker 1: legislation for that. There's only a piece of that within
Speaker 1: the infrastructure bill. But remember Joe Mansion wasn't comfortable with
Speaker 1: climate language. Mister Cole doesn't like us creating infrastructure and
Speaker 1: demands of companies to, you know, combat this pressing crisis
Speaker 1: that we are in. He doesn't like the dollar amount,
Speaker 1: so he doesn't want the American people's own tax dollars
Speaker 1: right to be invested back into the American people. Then
Speaker 1: you have Curs in cinema who won't even get on
Speaker 1: camera to talk about what the fuck she is for
Speaker 1: or against, so we don't know. You have her own
Speaker 1: constituents chasing that bitch down in the bathroom and her
Speaker 1: deciding to say, oh, this is inappropriate. You know what's
Speaker 1: inappropriate being a senator and not doing anything for the
Speaker 1: people that actually voted and campaigned to get you into office,
Speaker 1: and doing an about face on whether or not you're
Speaker 1: going to be a part of our democracy's future or
Speaker 1: its demise. So, of course, when we are looking at
Speaker 1: these numbers, it makes sense to me that young people
Speaker 1: are looking around and saying, what am I voting for?
Speaker 1: And that is a huge problem for Democrats because they're
Speaker 1: the ones who, once again, do you know what issues
Speaker 1: that these folks care about? Well, let me tell you
Speaker 1: So the number one issue for women eighteen to twenty nine,
Speaker 1: No shock, he is abortion. Thirteen percent of women. That
Speaker 1: is their number one issue of young people in this
Speaker 1: age group. Of course, it is because if they can't
Speaker 1: control when and how they have a family, how are
Speaker 1: they going to be able to control their careers. How
Speaker 1: are they going to be able to control whether or
Speaker 1: not they're able to access higher education if they're saddled
Speaker 1: with kids that they can't afford. So that's a major issue.
Speaker 1: And again, what is it that this administration is doing
Speaker 1: to ensure that all people that are able to birth
Speaker 1: have access to safe, right and readily available abortions. So
Speaker 1: that's another thing. The second thing that folks are really
Speaker 1: concerned about as an overall, right, men and women are
Speaker 1: concerned about twenty four percent of women and twenty percent
Speaker 1: of men say that COVID nineteen is their number one issue. Well,
Speaker 1: of course it is because all of our lives have
Speaker 1: been turned upside down of parents playing Russian roulette with
Speaker 1: their children's lives by sending them back to school, not
Speaker 1: knowing when in fact they're going to be told that
Speaker 1: the school is shutting down or the kid has to
Speaker 1: stay home for two weeks because of a COVID outbreak, right,
Speaker 1: And again we have all of the information, but we
Speaker 1: are not disseminating it. Democrats are not disseminating in a
Speaker 1: way that it's a breaking through the misinformation. This has
Speaker 1: been a problem since twenty sixteen, folks, and we didn't
Speaker 1: do anything about it then. So again you're looking at
Speaker 1: the issues that matter to young people. On top of that,
Speaker 1: it is rising prices, right, and increased debt. The Biden
Speaker 1: administration only eliminated student debt for certain groups of people,
Speaker 1: and it was those from the disabled community and a
Speaker 1: few others. That's not eliminating student debt, right. That is
Speaker 1: crushing people. That is not allowing them to invest in
Speaker 1: buying homes. That is having them live at home with
Speaker 1: their families, right, and their parents because they can't afford
Speaker 1: to live on their owns. That is stopping people. Because
Speaker 1: here's another study that I want to bring up as well,
Speaker 1: which is just fucking wild. But here's another report that
Speaker 1: ties in to the fact that young people are not
Speaker 1: enthusiastic about voting. According to Time Magazine and a recent
Speaker 1: Pew Research analysis, this is the title of this article,
Speaker 1: men are now more likely to be single than women.
Speaker 1: It's not a good sign. And in the Pew research data,
Speaker 1: what they are finding is that men are more likely
Speaker 1: to be living at home with their parents. Single men,
Speaker 1: and that they're not making nearly as much money as
Speaker 1: they once were, and that they're not as educated as
Speaker 1: the women are. You see, because society has set up
Speaker 1: in a way that men, by virtue were always going
Speaker 1: to make more money and therefore didn't need to go
Speaker 1: and get higher Edgy women, on the other hand, needed
Speaker 1: to build up their resumes be just to be treated
Speaker 1: as equal. And we still are not paid as equal
Speaker 1: or treated as equal in the workplace. But now this
Speaker 1: is trickling down. Let me read you this piece. Almost
Speaker 1: a third of adult single men live with a parent.
Speaker 1: That is startling. Single men are much more likely to
Speaker 1: be unemployed, financially fragile, and to lack a college degree
Speaker 1: than those with a partner. They're also likely to have
Speaker 1: lower median earnings. Single men earned less in twenty nineteen
Speaker 1: than in nineteen ninety, even adjusting for inflation. Single women meanwhile,
Speaker 1: earned the same as they did thirty years ago. Because
Speaker 1: we don't have a fucking Equal Pay Act in this
Speaker 1: country and so we can continue to pay women less
Speaker 1: for the same job, but those with partners have increased
Speaker 1: their earnings by fifty percent. There are some of these
Speaker 1: or some of the findings in the new Pew Research
Speaker 1: analysis of twenty nineteen data on the growing gap between
Speaker 1: adults American adults who live with a partner and those
Speaker 1: who do not. While the study is less about the
Speaker 1: effect of marriage and more about the effect of a
Speaker 1: changing economic circumstances, circumstances that have an effect on marriage,
Speaker 1: because here's the idea, are you going to be actively dating,
Speaker 1: actively wanting to join your life with somebody else when
Speaker 1: you are living at home with your parents and don't
Speaker 1: have a stable income. Once again, this all comes back
Speaker 1: to our failing economy. The reality is this that it
Speaker 1: is very expensive to live in America right. It is
Speaker 1: very expensive to go to go to college. You're talking
Speaker 1: about average people raking in debts of six figures for
Speaker 1: a higher education that is not necessarily going to command
Speaker 1: them the salary that is going to help them to
Speaker 1: pay off that debt, So why go This is why
Speaker 1: another study came out and said that more men are
Speaker 1: not going into going to higher education, that more men
Speaker 1: are dropping out of college because what is happening here
Speaker 1: is that our economy is not keeping pace right and
Speaker 1: people are not making as much as they used to.
Speaker 1: Let me go on to show this because there was
Speaker 1: another startling issue here that I found. And of course
Speaker 1: when we look at communities of color, these numbers are
Speaker 1: even worse. I'll go on. The trend has not had
Speaker 1: an equal impact across all sectors of society. The Pew study,
Speaker 1: which uses information from the twenty nineteen American Community Survey,
Speaker 1: notes that men are now more likely to be single
Speaker 1: than women, which was not the case thirty years ago.
Speaker 1: Black people are much more likely to be single get
Speaker 1: this fifty nine percent than any other race, and Black
Speaker 1: women sixty two percent are more likely to be single
Speaker 1: of any sector. Asian people twenty nine percent are the
Speaker 1: least likely to be single, followed by whiteset thirty three
Speaker 1: and Hispanics at thirty eight percent. Most researchers agree that
Speaker 1: the trend lines showing that fewer people are getting married
Speaker 1: and that those who do are increasingly better off financially,
Speaker 1: have a lot to do with the effect of wealth
Speaker 1: and education on marriage, then vice versa. People who are
Speaker 1: financially stable are just more likely to find and attract
Speaker 1: a partner. So again this goes back to what are
Speaker 1: we doing to ensure that people are not having crippling debt?
Speaker 1: What are we doing to increase and make certain that
Speaker 1: we have good paying jobs. I did a debate recently
Speaker 1: with a conservative, right wing Republican who said, I don't
Speaker 1: know what this study is talking about because there are
Speaker 1: so many jobs. I see many job openings, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: just because you see job openings in your neighborhood does
Speaker 1: not mean that that translates to the nation. And also,
Speaker 1: their reason why there are so many job openings in retail,
Speaker 1: for instance, right now, is because it doesn't fucking pay
Speaker 1: and it doesn't have health benefits. And when you're living
Speaker 1: in the midst of a health pandemic, having health insurance
Speaker 1: and health benefits is really fucking good. So why would
Speaker 1: you be at a job that pays you minimum wage
Speaker 1: or below and doesn't provide you with benefits. You're better
Speaker 1: off not going into those positions. So when we're talking
Speaker 1: about whether or not people are going to be able
Speaker 1: to leave home, we're talking about the reality that here's
Speaker 1: the thing. We need, better jobs, good paying jobs for
Speaker 1: all people, because right now folks are opting out and
Speaker 1: that's the problem, folks. I am so excited to welcome
Speaker 1: to the show for the very first time the campaign
Speaker 1: director of CHIROS, the Digital First organizers behind Tech Is
Speaker 1: Not Neutral campaign and the recently launched Facebook Logout campaign,
Speaker 1: Gilanni Drew Davie. Gilanni, can you talk to us about
Speaker 1: your initial reactions to the Facebook whistleblower Francis Hagen and
Speaker 1: what we have learned We're I mean, because I will
Speaker 1: tell you this, I don't know if I needed the
Speaker 1: internal documents to tell me that Facebook was putting profits
Speaker 1: over people and that they were more concerned with making
Speaker 1: money than they were with stopping hate groups and white supremacy.
Speaker 1: But what were your reactions and the reactions of CAIROS. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'm first super excited to talk to you and
Speaker 1: be here about it. I think that, you know, the
Speaker 1: first reactions that we had as CHIROS, as an organization
Speaker 1: who's been kind of doing this work for a while
Speaker 1: and both both in the campaigning organizing realm, but also
Speaker 1: building up organizers to do digital organizing and do it
Speaker 1: on tech issues, I think it was the same. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't really need the internal documents. I didn't really
Speaker 1: need to hear the whistleblower Francis saying the things that
Speaker 1: she was saying, and it was reiterating a point that
Speaker 1: you know, civil rights groups to accountability groups have been
Speaker 1: saying for for years and for as us as users
Speaker 1: have been experiencing for years. And so, you know, very
Speaker 1: very appreciative all ways of whistleblowers, especially from Silicon Valley,
Speaker 1: but it's very hard to you know, come out and
Speaker 1: say the things and be public about it. So very
Speaker 1: appreciative that also, I think, you know, it wasn't a
Speaker 1: surprise at all. You know, I think that one of
Speaker 1: the things that we are all learning, which is really disconcerning,
Speaker 1: is the fact that white supremacy, right hate, homophobia, transphobia,
Speaker 1: all of these things have no boundaries. Right. They now
Speaker 1: have algorithms, Right, we have a way of being able
Speaker 1: to tap into people's worst instincts. And we're using now
Speaker 1: platforms that were originally i think created to bring people together,
Speaker 1: to bring families and communities and students and all of
Speaker 1: these different types of people seven billion people right together.
Speaker 1: And now what we have seen, at least through the
Speaker 1: activation of these hate groups using Facebook is just an
Speaker 1: increase in tribalism, an increase in how things go viral
Speaker 1: or what makes things go viral. Talk to us about
Speaker 1: the Tech is Not Neutral campaign and why it's important
Speaker 1: for us to have these conversations about who is actually
Speaker 1: creating the tech, who is creating the artificial intelligence, who
Speaker 1: is creating these algorithms, and through what perspective they're doing. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, I think, you know, tech company products have
Speaker 1: real life consequences for people, for real people. And when
Speaker 1: I say that too, I also want to put a
Speaker 1: little like asterisk of the people who experience the most
Speaker 1: harm are also the same people who experienced the most
Speaker 1: harm offline, and those are going to be like marginalized communities,
Speaker 1: black and brown people, LGBT people, etc. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: it is so so important to call out and realize
Speaker 1: who is making these products, who was writting these platforms,
Speaker 1: who was making the decisions when it comes to things
Speaker 1: like content moderation, disinformation, even just the way that the
Speaker 1: platform is like functioning. And so, you know, the Tech
Speaker 1: is Not Mutual campaign that we launched last year, we
Speaker 1: was really in response to seeing tech companies jumping on
Speaker 1: this bandwagon of black Lives Matter. I was seeing, you know,
Speaker 1: an Amazon um black Lives Matter statement, and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's really that's really rich because Amazon is doing so
Speaker 1: many harmful things to communities of color around the world,
Speaker 1: and so for them to put up their little black square,
Speaker 1: it was like no. And same thing with Google, same
Speaker 1: thing with next Door and and Microsoft for example, saying
Speaker 1: those statements and also playing with our lives, playing with
Speaker 1: our democracy, and so you know, we launched that campaign
Speaker 1: to point out the the I guess like hypercritical nature
Speaker 1: of those of those statements and then also get people
Speaker 1: to start thinking about tech not being neutral. So it's
Speaker 1: a campaign, but it's also a framework. It's a way
Speaker 1: of thinking around technology, and also it's a way of
Speaker 1: thinking about a vision of the world that we do
Speaker 1: want to see. We want to create a world where
Speaker 1: tech works for us. We want to create a world
Speaker 1: where we are not told by Silicon Valley that this place,
Speaker 1: this platform, this product is neutral when that's just not
Speaker 1: the truth. That all sways one way or the other.
Speaker 1: You know, what's so funny is that every time that
Speaker 1: I hear somebody say something that is neutral, it is
Speaker 1: almost an alarm that goes off in my head for
Speaker 1: me to be like, oh, so it's the opposite of
Speaker 1: what it is that you're saying. I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the frustrating points, too, is that we wanted
Speaker 1: to believe that technology was going to be the great equalizer, right,
Speaker 1: was going to be this this democratized space the Internet,
Speaker 1: where everyone was going to be able to have the
Speaker 1: same amount of access, was going to be able to
Speaker 1: post in the same way, you know, And that's not
Speaker 1: the case. What we what we know right is from
Speaker 1: I would even go with the content creators on TikTok,
Speaker 1: the black content creators on TikTok who went on strike,
Speaker 1: who are just like, so, we're not putting our information
Speaker 1: out there. I follow so many sites who are talking
Speaker 1: about white supremacy and they're having their content pulled down
Speaker 1: as hate speech, and they're the and they are talking
Speaker 1: about the harms of white supremacy and how it is spreading,
Speaker 1: and yet they are the ones that are being blocked
Speaker 1: or banned or having their accounts disabled. How do you
Speaker 1: think that we deal with those issues the fact that
Speaker 1: you know, we're looking for Congress, right. I think that
Speaker 1: the whistleblower has laid out a kind of you know,
Speaker 1: trail of gingerbread crumbs right for them to develop a
Speaker 1: case right against Facebook, but it's like, do they even
Speaker 1: understand what algorithms are? Do they even understand what needs
Speaker 1: to be regulated? And if if cairos, if your organization
Speaker 1: had it, they're wig, what are some waste in which
Speaker 1: we would ensure that the internet is free, that it
Speaker 1: is democratize, that people are safe. Yeah, so I think
Speaker 1: the whistle blower definitely laid out a bunch of ways,
Speaker 1: and I think this moment in time is a bit
Speaker 1: different because we've now seen from January sixth to now
Speaker 1: all the Wall Street Journal files the whistle blower, how
Speaker 1: Facebook and technologies like Facebook or like harming our children,
Speaker 1: our society or democracy, you name it. They're touching it.
Speaker 1: And I think that you know, this is both This
Speaker 1: is both a Congress issue and a way where users
Speaker 1: can also have power. And so I think about it.
Speaker 1: I think, Okay, a campaign we're running now, the Facebook blogout,
Speaker 1: is really getting users to harness their own power, to
Speaker 1: realize their own power as people who make Facebook and
Speaker 1: Instagram run like those are our engagement, that's our data
Speaker 1: that they're using to make more money, and if we
Speaker 1: take that away, then they start making money, and therefore
Speaker 1: we can demand the things that we want from them.
Speaker 1: Users are also the same people as constituents, and so lawmakers,
Speaker 1: I think also need to realize that users are constituents,
Speaker 1: and so they need to listen to the things that
Speaker 1: we're saying and listen to the harms that you're laying
Speaker 1: out that you know, places like Facebook have have done
Speaker 1: to us. And as far as like you know, do
Speaker 1: they even know what to regulate? Do they do they
Speaker 1: know what algorithms are. I think We've come a long
Speaker 1: way since I've started this work and the hearings and
Speaker 1: the kind of like memes that have come out and
Speaker 1: the interesting quotes that have come out of those hearings,
Speaker 1: and I think we's leve a way to go. And
Speaker 1: I think that you know, lawmakers need to start also
Speaker 1: listening to groups like CAIROS and our partners SPURB. We're saying, like,
Speaker 1: here are the things that we want to see from you.
Speaker 1: We want to see you know, better things on privacy,
Speaker 1: like protecting children like we saw on the hearings this week,
Speaker 1: and just being able to regulate technology and on value
Speaker 1: in a way that doesn't take everything from people in
Speaker 1: the way that it is. Right now, we experienced a
Speaker 1: blackout of sorts right when Facebook went down, then taking
Speaker 1: down with it all of the entities in which they
Speaker 1: have gobbled up and own. Three and a half billion
Speaker 1: people were affected. Now we have the you know, the
Speaker 1: jokes that people in the United States make about, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I guess I'll just get more work done today because
Speaker 1: I can't scroll through Instagram and you know, like, oh
Speaker 1: look at me, like I'll clean my house, or there
Speaker 1: are a bunch of babies that were being born because
Speaker 1: you know, nobody had anything else to do with their time.
Speaker 1: The reality is, though, that globally, for instance, What's app
Speaker 1: is used as a survival tool for many in the
Speaker 1: LGBTQ community, particularly activists in very hostile countries, and so
Speaker 1: what seems like a funny meme to us when these
Speaker 1: platforms go down for a few hours is life threatening
Speaker 1: and consequential to others. Do you think that we have
Speaker 1: enough of a conversation about how these tools have become utilities?
Speaker 1: Right Like, it isn't just a nice to have that
Speaker 1: it actually is a need for people that are at
Speaker 1: risk and for small businesses and entrepreneurs. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: think the Facebook, the Facebook down, Instagram down moment of
Speaker 1: I believe it was my day at the beginning of
Speaker 1: my week ends. You know, I think it was who
Speaker 1: knows what data is at this point, but I think,
Speaker 1: you know, that really highlighted a couple of things. I
Speaker 1: love the memes, you know, we're quick on a on Twitter.
Speaker 1: The spirit Halloween signs over the Facebook thing really killed me.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it like it really was horrible for a
Speaker 1: lot of small business owners, for organizers who use Facebook
Speaker 1: for maybe their local elections that are happening now, and
Speaker 1: people across the world, like you said, in addition to
Speaker 1: what'sapp being like main communication source, also people open the
Speaker 1: internet to just Facebook in places outside of the US. Right,
Speaker 1: we are incredibly privileged to be able to even go
Speaker 1: onto Twitter and have a key key about you know,
Speaker 1: Facebook is down. This is what I'm doing, making the
Speaker 1: memes all that kind of stuff. But taking a step back,
Speaker 1: Facebook operates as a public utility, yet they don't, you know,
Speaker 1: communicate as one. They don't take users seriously as as
Speaker 1: a public utility should. And I think that is really
Speaker 1: where our kind of a unique stance is is like
Speaker 1: We're not saying delete Facebook if you want to as
Speaker 1: an individual, sure, And the conversation shouldn't be like, well,
Speaker 1: if you don't like it, just get out and if
Speaker 1: you don't, you know, and if you are on it,
Speaker 1: then you should deal with it. No, Like, this is
Speaker 1: the thing that people use and need. It's probably the
Speaker 1: biggest way to communicate at this point. And as users
Speaker 1: we can basically strike and say, you know, we will
Speaker 1: strike until we get the thing that we need because
Speaker 1: this is the place where we are doing the things
Speaker 1: that we need to do. And so yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think that we have a kind
Speaker 1: of like maybe maybe it's large, maybe it's a nuanced
Speaker 1: conversation about the ways on which Facebook is actually helpful
Speaker 1: to people, especially globally, And that is a conversation that
Speaker 1: like it's kind of rows were interested in like continuing
Speaker 1: to have. And then I think that all of us
Speaker 1: need to start having given right, how many people around
Speaker 1: the world, billions of people are on Facebook's platform, worms,
Speaker 1: how effective do you think it can be for folks
Speaker 1: to just log out? Like if small businesses rely on
Speaker 1: this thing, entrepreneurs rely on this platform, organizers, activists rely
Speaker 1: on this platform. How effective is it to just say, well,
Speaker 1: we need to opt out or we need to log
Speaker 1: out to your point, not to delete it, but to
Speaker 1: log out until our demands are met. M I think
Speaker 1: the focus of the campaign is so is much about
Speaker 1: showing people power as impacting like Facebook's bottom line. And
Speaker 1: so I think that it's this balance of we are
Speaker 1: impacting Facebook's bottom line by like opting out of seeing
Speaker 1: the ads and really digging into where how much they
Speaker 1: get their revenue, which is like ninety eight percent advertising
Speaker 1: at this point, and we're showing people power by buy
Speaker 1: and logging out. And I think that you know, we've
Speaker 1: been contacted by people say, hey, I run a small business.
Speaker 1: We're organized on Facebook, and that's why our logout is temporary,
Speaker 1: and that's why it's on an individual basis, and it
Speaker 1: we really are going with the frame of like we
Speaker 1: make or break Facebook, And so I think it's this
Speaker 1: kind of this this balance of or maybe balance a
Speaker 1: combination of trying to get people to start thinking differently
Speaker 1: about Facebook and also follow through with an action. And
Speaker 1: we hope to have an impact that is both both
Speaker 1: the bottom line impact and both a change in mind impact,
Speaker 1: so that you know, we're starting with this pledge now,
Speaker 1: we're starting with this logout period now and going forward
Speaker 1: and you know, two, three, four years then we are
Speaker 1: you know, doing more things, and we are Mark Zuckerberg
Speaker 1: is listening to us, or even better, Mark Zuckerberg's not
Speaker 1: CEO of Facebook, because we, as users have in life,
Speaker 1: we need better leadership. You know, I find Mark Zuckerberg
Speaker 1: to be nauseating on so many different levels, just because
Speaker 1: I think that he's emblematic of you know, white male
Speaker 1: privilege and wealth and power personified to a degree that
Speaker 1: you know, Mark Zuckerberg in many ways to be able
Speaker 1: to put out the lights accidentally, as they said on
Speaker 1: three and a half billion people, has more power than
Speaker 1: the president of the United States. And that's something that
Speaker 1: I just don't think again, people get right, they don't
Speaker 1: they I don't think that they fully understand, you know,
Speaker 1: the way in which this one person who is beholden
Speaker 1: to no one but his shareholders and his own wallet,
Speaker 1: is in charge of their life. You know. Part of
Speaker 1: the work that you all do is to empower people
Speaker 1: to have these campaigns that show people that you know,
Speaker 1: as was said after the whistleblower came out, that when
Speaker 1: you have a free platform, you have to recognize that
Speaker 1: you're the product. If you're not paying for a subscription,
Speaker 1: if you're not paying for the product, then you are
Speaker 1: the product. So how do we continue to empower people
Speaker 1: to recognize and fully understand in this very mindless facial
Speaker 1: recognition you know space that we're in, let me log
Speaker 1: into everything with Google and Facebook, you know, so that
Speaker 1: they have all of my passwords and have everything just
Speaker 1: how I guess just how vulnerable they really are, because
Speaker 1: I think that that's what we were shown with the
Speaker 1: five hour blackout, is that Wow, we're really vulnerable to
Speaker 1: like somebody literally just pulling the plug. Yeah, it's super
Speaker 1: important to know that we don't have to actually be
Speaker 1: complacent with the terms that Facebook or any other social
Speaker 1: media platform sets. We don't have to be just grateful
Speaker 1: for the tool, because when the tool goles down, then
Speaker 1: that's what we experienced on Monday. I think the couple
Speaker 1: of thirds of what you were saying, like one is
Speaker 1: definitely about data privacy is definitely about you know, the
Speaker 1: convenience that is single click sign ons giving my information
Speaker 1: over to this platform so it can work easier, better
Speaker 1: or whatever for me I think that's kind of a
Speaker 1: false a false choice, and that's something the whistle bloord
Speaker 1: was saying to like, Facebook has presented us with this
Speaker 1: false choice, like we don't actually we do have choices here.
Speaker 1: We do have the choice to give information or not.
Speaker 1: And I think just even being armed with that knowledge
Speaker 1: of I don't have to just give Facebook all of
Speaker 1: my information, that is a game changer in and of itself.
Speaker 1: And so I think it's this continuous beating of the
Speaker 1: drum of like, you don't have to just be grateful
Speaker 1: for the tool, you don't have to just give all
Speaker 1: your information, you don't have to just etc. With these platforms.
Speaker 1: You know, I read a very terrifying article with how
Speaker 1: and watch a terrifying documentary Coded Bias on how essentially
Speaker 1: you know code is going to exacerbate our racism problem
Speaker 1: in this country and around the world. But the terrifying
Speaker 1: article that I read was about Venice in Italy and
Speaker 1: how they are deciding to deploy a facial recognition right
Speaker 1: within the city walls to be able to track tourists
Speaker 1: so that they can deal with overcrowding. And I use
Speaker 1: that in air quotes because essentially they are testing out
Speaker 1: a mechanism to create an even longer digital leash where
Speaker 1: by every CCTV, everything that you pass will be able
Speaker 1: to have a snapshot. They have tools that are able
Speaker 1: to pull data from your phone just by you by
Speaker 1: virtue of passing. Of passing by. You know, we see
Speaker 1: these little articles pop up every once and again, and
Speaker 1: because it's in Venice, nobody is really paying attention to
Speaker 1: the fact that I believe that they are using it
Speaker 1: as a testing ground to see how well it works
Speaker 1: in this city of fifty thousand people before it is
Speaker 1: used everywhere, right before they decide to adopt it all
Speaker 1: over Italy. In the form of safety, how do you
Speaker 1: think that we maintain right our safety but at the
Speaker 1: same time keep pace with the innovation that is happening,
Speaker 1: keep pace with technology that is going to be used
Speaker 1: to have us in these digital cages of essentially our
Speaker 1: own making, because we've provided them with the information. I
Speaker 1: think that's another thing around around those two things. There's
Speaker 1: one thing around, like knowledge of what's even happening in
Speaker 1: the first place. Sometimes that is really hard because you know,
Speaker 1: these little articles pop up every now and again, or
Speaker 1: it's secret. And I think in the case of many
Speaker 1: states in the United States, like there's been the secrecy
Speaker 1: around you know, biometric surveillance, which is what you're talking about,
Speaker 1: facial recognition, and other other ways. There's been this secrecy
Speaker 1: and people have found out about it, and organizers have
Speaker 1: actually organized who change the laws that make those things possible.
Speaker 1: And so there's been there's states in the United States.
Speaker 1: I think it's Massachusetts is one of them, and there's
Speaker 1: I believe, if not California as a whole, but like
Speaker 1: cities in California who have banned biometric surveillance or banded
Speaker 1: facial recognition use by police by cities, it varies, but
Speaker 1: I think that is one way that will be really
Speaker 1: tackle this. We get people who are in leadership, We
Speaker 1: get organizers focused on this tech issue as it relates
Speaker 1: with things like racism, with things like holophobia, transphobia, all
Speaker 1: of the things that we're trying to fight. Tech is
Speaker 1: like intersection with those and so even getting people to
Speaker 1: think about how do we look at pace of recognition
Speaker 1: is not just a lonky nere thing that's happening, but
Speaker 1: actually I think that's happening right now and that goes
Speaker 1: for all tech issues as well. So I think it's
Speaker 1: I think it's being aware of it ourselves and doing
Speaker 1: the work to connect the dots for people, and then
Speaker 1: doing the work to then ban those things as far
Speaker 1: as laws go. I mean, I just even think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that it's it has to be a massive
Speaker 1: information campaign because I don't even think that people recognize
Speaker 1: what is happening. You know, we, you know, pay attention
Speaker 1: and are reading the news and are following these stories,
Speaker 1: but the average person is not. And you know, and
Speaker 1: day by day we are giving away more and more
Speaker 1: of our civil liberties and we're going to wake up
Speaker 1: one day and they're just going to be gone, and
Speaker 1: we'll be inside, locked inside of these digital cages. Please
Speaker 1: tell folks on willkaf how they can participate in the
Speaker 1: Facebook logout and when it's happening. Yeah, absolutely, so the
Speaker 1: Facebook logout. You can participate by going to the Facebook
Speaker 1: logout dot com and on there you can sign up
Speaker 1: to take the pledge to logout on Facebook. So let's
Speaker 1: just start with the pledge. We're not asking you to
Speaker 1: do anything right now, but in November we will take
Speaker 1: log off days. So from now into November, bring your friends,
Speaker 1: bring your family, bring it aunties to the Facebook logout
Speaker 1: dot com. Sign up you will get regular communications from
Speaker 1: us and then join us in a couple of days
Speaker 1: in November to really just take days off of Facebook
Speaker 1: and show Facebook you know we have power and we
Speaker 1: know how to use it. Jolenny also tell people who
Speaker 1: are interested in learning more about Cairos are becoming trained
Speaker 1: in the many programs and campaigns that you all put together,
Speaker 1: how would they get that information as well? Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you can go to Kiros Fellows dot org to learn
Speaker 1: more about us. We also have Compirisaction dot org to
Speaker 1: learn more about our more legislatives CE four activities. And
Speaker 1: I think I would say two the two things that
Speaker 1: Kiros does well is build leaders and strategies for you know,
Speaker 1: contending for power. This like digital realm, internet centric world
Speaker 1: we live in. And we run campaigns like tech usant
Speaker 1: Mutual and the Facebook Blogout. So if those things are
Speaker 1: interest of view, definitely go to Cairos Fellows dot org
Speaker 1: and then the Facebook Logout dot com. Fantastic, Gilani Drew Davies,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for making the time to join woke.
Speaker 1: F Thank you for the work that you are doing
Speaker 1: that you continue to bring awareness to these issues that
Speaker 1: I think more people need to be paying attention to. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having us. It's great, appreciate you.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today on Woke af as always,
Speaker 1: Power to the people and to all the people power,
Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.