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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know

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Speaker 1: from House stuff Works dot com? Howdy and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Sitting across from me is

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Speaker 1: Charles Chuck Bryant. It's the usual day here at how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works. Thanks for joining us. What's going on? Chuck? Chuck?

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Speaker 1: Is sleepy? Chuck? Y? Y? By? You're ready to podcast? Mommy, no, Josh, oh, mommy? Yeah, Hey, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. Check a little sleepy here today?

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Speaker 1: So am I? Actually I'm a little sleep deprived. I

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Speaker 1: don't like it, Chuck. I I um feel a little dirty.

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Speaker 1: I smell a little bit. You get this weird thing

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Speaker 1: growing on my jawline that won't go away? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: just I just feel unhealthy from not having had enough

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Speaker 1: sleep lately. How about you? Uh? Yeah, you know, I

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Speaker 1: was actually just finding people. I wasn't awake. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really, I was just funny people. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: really asleep. But I am a bit tired going out

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Speaker 1: of town this week. So I've been, you know, staying

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Speaker 1: up a little later, getting things ready and Uh, I'm

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Speaker 1: in the same way, a little rundown, a little foggy headed.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of funny that we should both

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Speaker 1: be this sleepy on the same day we're going to

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Speaker 1: discuss an article you wrote. Is sleep that important? Right you?

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Speaker 1: You would almost think that we planned it? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I actually didn't, you know, lose sleep in preparation for this.

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Speaker 1: If you did, hats off to me. Yeah, exactly, So Chuck,

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Speaker 1: what I got from this article that you wrote. It's

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Speaker 1: a fine pine article, by the way, thanks, Uh that

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Speaker 1: you know, the University of Chicago is the place to

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Speaker 1: be if you are interested in dedicating your career to

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Speaker 1: sleep research. Is in the case yeah, and well yeah,

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Speaker 1: they do a lot, but there's tons of sleep research

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Speaker 1: out there. This is one of those articles that almost

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Speaker 1: wrote itself because there's one thing that scientists like to study,

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Speaker 1: it's sleep. Yeah. Yeah. And the funny thing is, though,

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Speaker 1: is we still don't have any definitive answers with for

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Speaker 1: exactly why we sleep. Yeah. I mean, it sounds kind

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Speaker 1: of odd to pose that question, but we don't know

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Speaker 1: why we sleep other than to say I know what

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Speaker 1: I mentioned the article. One of the old jokes that

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Speaker 1: doctors say, is that, uh, sleep is to cure sleepiness. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's really the best answer they have at this

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Speaker 1: point still and it makes sense too. But lucky for you,

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Speaker 1: after having been assigned to sleep that important for the site, uh,

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Speaker 1: you were able to find out that we know plenty

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Speaker 1: about all the bad things that happened when you don't

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Speaker 1: get enough sleep, and there are lots of them. All. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, give us a couple, will you. Well, I know,

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Speaker 1: just let me quickly say before this is all in

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Speaker 1: the last you know, fifty years or so, because before

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Speaker 1: the early nineteen fifties, scientists thought it was just shut

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Speaker 1: down mode and that like your brain slept and it

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Speaker 1: was just your body is just catching up on all

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Speaker 1: the uh, you know, your organs. They might even thought

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Speaker 1: your organs shut down except for your heart. Not true. No, no,

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Speaker 1: that's a really bad thing when your organs shut down.

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Speaker 1: That's not true at all. Because the doctor years later

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Speaker 1: um hooked his son up to a a machine, brain

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Speaker 1: wave machine Eugene Azarinsky of Surprise the Prize the University

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Speaker 1: of Chica, Chicago, and he found that the brain actually

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Speaker 1: there were periods where the brain actually sped up its

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Speaker 1: activity oh really, Yeah, which is REM sleep r AM sleep,

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Speaker 1: a rapid eye movement sleep exactly. Okay, so all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, what that's just like this uh this huge

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Speaker 1: hyper speed launched forward in sleep research, right. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: at the time, it was you know, they found out

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Speaker 1: that during REM sleep, you know, your eyes would trip

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, your eyes would twitch, and the limbs and

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Speaker 1: facial muscles would move. It's kind of unsettling to see

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Speaker 1: somebody in r EM sleep. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: would agree with that. So. Uh so he figured out

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Speaker 1: basically that you know, not only are we shut down,

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Speaker 1: but we're more active in some areas of our brain. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But most of the research since then has been done

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Speaker 1: on what happens if you don't get enough sleep and

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Speaker 1: the health impacts. Right. Well, one of the things that, um,

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Speaker 1: that I understand about r M sleep is is, um,

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Speaker 1: there's a theory that basically that's the stage where our

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Speaker 1: brain is sorting through all the information we've taken in

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Speaker 1: throughout the day. Yeah, that's one they and kind of

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Speaker 1: filing it away that this seems pretty logical to me. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would make sense, and unfortunately it's nothing they can

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Speaker 1: really prove but I think that's a pretty good theory

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Speaker 1: because you've take in things all day long, and uh,

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Speaker 1: the analogy I'm making the articles that it's like a

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Speaker 1: computer desktop and you're just filing everything away, and then

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Speaker 1: when we sleep is when our brain kind of does

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Speaker 1: the big masterfile, moves whatever needs to be in the

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Speaker 1: recycled bin to the recycled bin, and everything else is

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Speaker 1: put on the hard drive. Basically, I think Chuck and

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Speaker 1: I subscribe to that theory because we both share a

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Speaker 1: common hatred of a cluttered desktop. Right, Yeah, it's terrible.

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Speaker 1: It's really annoying. Yeah, it is. It throws me off. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know R E M sleep. After that discovery, um

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Speaker 1: really kind of uh it became the superstar of sleep studies,

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Speaker 1: didn't right, And for a long time they assume that

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Speaker 1: if you don't have R E M sleep, you are

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Speaker 1: going to suffer memory loss and all sorts of other

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Speaker 1: terrible things. Um. It sounds like from later studies and actually,

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Speaker 1: this terrible accident that happened to an Israeli man Um

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Speaker 1: who was hitting the head by shrapnel, suffered a brain trauma,

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Speaker 1: and Um was incapable of achieving R E M sleep

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Speaker 1: was still able to um go ahead and you know,

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Speaker 1: move on to graduate from law school, which kind of

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Speaker 1: undermines the idea that not getting r EM sleep, you know,

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Speaker 1: uh impairs your memory. Not getting r EM sleep does

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Speaker 1: um screw with you physiologically though, right right, and now,

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Speaker 1: just sleep deprivation in general, uh is no good for

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Speaker 1: you at all. And we're talking will shorten your life?

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Speaker 1: Tell them about the three week lab rats study. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: the three the infamous three week labrates and is so unsettling. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that lab rats that would normally live for three years

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Speaker 1: would die and three weeks without sleep. And you know

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Speaker 1: there's only one way to find that out, definitively, to

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Speaker 1: poke these rats and keep them alife for three straight weeks.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine a worse existence? Now? And I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine being the poker of the rat either. That's probably

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Speaker 1: not funny. Well, think about it. They had to have

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Speaker 1: poker's work on shifts or else there'd be pokers who

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Speaker 1: had to stay up for three straight ranks. That maybe

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Speaker 1: people were poking the pokers and but an unfair advantage.

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Speaker 1: It's an endless chain. Yeah, yeah, so sleep not only

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Speaker 1: will killed lab rats, and that's if they don't sleep

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Speaker 1: at all. So that's that's the far end of the

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Speaker 1: spect it's still surprising. Three weeks, you know, equals death. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty scary. But some of the ways of death,

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Speaker 1: some of the things that you can develop, like what hypertension, Yeah, hypertension. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think Parkinson's disease you can get if you sleep

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Speaker 1: more than nine Yeah. The the trick is, I mean

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Speaker 1: everyone's a little bit different, but the trick is to

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Speaker 1: get that right amount of sleep. And they say it's

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Speaker 1: generally for adults between six and eight hours, and too

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Speaker 1: little can lead to a bunch of problems. Too much

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Speaker 1: can lead to a bunch of problems. I found one

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Speaker 1: get another University of Chicago study UM that that basically

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Speaker 1: followed uh. I think ten healthy men uh in their twenties.

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Speaker 1: I think they were college students, UM and they got

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Speaker 1: four hours of sleep per night, and after six days

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Speaker 1: they were in a pre diabetic state after six days

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Speaker 1: of just getting four hours of sleep. Wow. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: apparently it can have some pretty bad health effects on you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's crazy. I know. I was also looking into UH,

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Speaker 1: polyphasic sleep, which is a k A. Da Vinci sleep,

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Speaker 1: which I know a lot of people know about da

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Speaker 1: Vinci was famous for taking twenty to thirty minute naps

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Speaker 1: over a twenty four hour period, and that was how

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Speaker 1: he got his sleep. Do you ever see that Seinfeld

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Speaker 1: where Cramer tries that it does not pan out well

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Speaker 1: for him? No, and it's probably not. I know that

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Speaker 1: mainstream science doesn't endorse it, although a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are big believers in it. They have websites about polyphasic

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Speaker 1: sleep where, you know, they just think it's the best

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Speaker 1: thing since real sleep. Well, that's kind of the things

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Speaker 1: that you One of the things that you pointed out

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Speaker 1: in the article was that sleep is so different for

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Speaker 1: everybody in demand for sleep or you know, not needing it, UM,

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Speaker 1: that it's almost impossible to really conclusively study sleep, right

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Speaker 1: and come up with answers across the board. Right, But

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Speaker 1: there are some generalities, right like how many how many

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Speaker 1: hours to sleep do I need? I'm thirty two? You

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Speaker 1: need between six and eight. I mean that's the wheelhouse

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Speaker 1: for everybody. If you get less than that. UM, Actually

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Speaker 1: Parkinson's is less or more than that. UM. Obesity, diabetes,

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Speaker 1: heart disease, high blood pressure. It can make you stupid.

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Speaker 1: Students perform uh less on test scores. If they don't

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Speaker 1: get enough sleep, we'll check, check and check for me,

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Speaker 1: because I get like nine or ten hours and nine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's you probably a little much. Yeah, that's not

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Speaker 1: that's no good. You need to wake up earlier, my friend.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, aside from all those things, uh, fatalities of

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Speaker 1: all uh drowsy driving fatalities occur and kids basically to

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Speaker 1: the age of five. So it's not as think about

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Speaker 1: old people, you know, falling asleep off the side of

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Speaker 1: the road. This is happening more with with kids these days.

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Speaker 1: And you know it's because kids are sleep deprived. You

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Speaker 1: go to college, you're out from under the thumb of

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Speaker 1: your folks, and uh, you don't sleep, you're up partying

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Speaker 1: all night right. Well. Plus also, I mean it's it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a common knowledge that older, older adults need

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Speaker 1: less sleep, hence early bird specials, and you know that

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Speaker 1: they're up in at them a lot earlier. That kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. On the other end of the spectrum, babies

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Speaker 1: need like newborns point they need like um, tend to

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Speaker 1: sixteen to eighteen hours and yeah, sixteen eighteen the first

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Speaker 1: year of life. Yeah, and then uh, I think the

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Speaker 1: three month mark or so is when babies start to

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Speaker 1: recognize the circadian rhythm, which we've talked about, which is

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Speaker 1: basically day is day night as night. You sleep at night,

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Speaker 1: you're up during the day, but they're still sleeping ten

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Speaker 1: to twelve hours and then napping a few hours on

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Speaker 1: top of that. And I noticed the owning your article

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Speaker 1: made it sound like you're a little envious of babies

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Speaker 1: getting to sleep that much. Are you sleep deprived? Uh?

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Speaker 1: You know, I wake up pretty easily and I'm an

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Speaker 1: early riser, so I'm pretty good. And do you do

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Speaker 1: you experience daytime sleepiness? Like do you hit the wall

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Speaker 1: at like three or four in the afternoon? Not really,

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Speaker 1: you really don't see I read I read an article

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Speaker 1: that found that only forty of of people I think

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Speaker 1: it was in your article, actually of people suffer from

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Speaker 1: daytime sleepiness, right, So I'm like, what are the other

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Speaker 1: sixty percent doing that? They're just feeling so good all

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Speaker 1: the time. I don't get it, because I get I

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Speaker 1: hit a wall at like three, I have to start

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Speaker 1: drinking coffee again for the second time that day, and

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Speaker 1: not the second cup, sucking the second time, and each

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Speaker 1: time consists of like three or four cups of coffee.

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Speaker 1: What am I doing wrong? I don't know. Maybe they're

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Speaker 1: taking tons and tons of happy drugs or something. I

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Speaker 1: don't know these people maybe so well because because you know,

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Speaker 1: I generally get to get a little sleeping during the

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Speaker 1: day as well. Okay, good, thank you there, I said it,

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Chuck. I just I don't understand why you

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Speaker 1: couldn't have been up front at the beginning. Well that's

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Speaker 1: it for this one, obviously, Chuck nodding off, and frankly,

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Speaker 1: I'm about to hit the wall again myself. So why

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Speaker 1: don't you go check out his sleep? That important? Believe

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Speaker 1: Chuck and I it is. Stick around though, to find

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Speaker 1: out what article makes Chuck and I hungry for? We

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Speaker 1: just Nat follows right after this, Chuck, you want to

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Speaker 1: tell him? Can you can you come to again? Let

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Speaker 1: you go when I'm going to just bring you up

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Speaker 1: today I asked the people to stick around and find

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Speaker 1: out what article makes us hungry for Swedish meatballs? So

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Speaker 1: we already podcasting? Yeah, yeah, we're almost at the end there, buddy,

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Speaker 1: just hanging there. Just tell him what's the article? I

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Speaker 1: think most people probably does is a giveaway anyone who's

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Speaker 1: anyone who's ever been to Ikea knows did they serve

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Speaker 1: up and sell some yummy Swedish meatballs? And Chuck and

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Speaker 1: I are not paid in any way, shape or formed

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Speaker 1: by Ikea for this endorsement. We just like their meatballs

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Speaker 1: that much. Although I think I speak for Chuck as

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Speaker 1: well as myself when I say we kind of secretly

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Speaker 1: hope i Kea will send us some for mentioning them

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Speaker 1: how to be great. Yeah, well, they can go ahead

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Speaker 1: and email us at the podcast if they want our address.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime, you can go check out how i

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Speaker 1: Kea Works Great article on how stuff works dot com

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Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Does

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Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com? Let us know what

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Speaker 1: you think. Send an email to podcast at how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Brought to you by the reinvented two

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Speaker 1: thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you