1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 2: She doesn't belong to me, I told him, And I 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 2: don't belong to her. I know that, so at s 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 2: and Nogo. According to the papers, she worked at a cafe. 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 2: I said, I'll fly there and then I'll. 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 3: See her from across the street. 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 2: Many in my position hoped to learn that they had 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: been wanted by their mothers, which I considered materially insignificant information. 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 2: But I wanted to know her, or at least know 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 2: what it felt like to be near this woman. If 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: it came to it, I'd settle for being near at 12 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: a distance. 13 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 4: That's Tracy O'Neill, writer, assistant professor of English at Vassar College, 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 4: an author of the recent memoir Woman of Interest. Tracy's 15 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 4: story is, in a way about storytelling itself, the narratives 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 4: we supply to fill in the blanks in our lives 17 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 4: when we're missing the foundation, the bedrock of our own origins. 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 4: It's also a story about determination, courage, and the intense 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 4: desire to know the truth, even when that truth may 20 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 4: be hard to hear. I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is 21 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 4: Family Secrets, the secrets that are kept from us the 22 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 4: secrets we keep from others and the secrets we keep 23 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 4: from ourselves. 24 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: He grew up in Massachusetts and New Hampshire. Some of 25 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: my earliest memories were going to my extended family's houses. 26 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: I would go to my auntie's house for Thanksgiving, and 27 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 2: her husband was Italian American, so every year she would 28 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 2: prepare like meat balls withsania seedy sauce. Then we would 29 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 2: have salad and rolls, and then we would have the 30 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: whole Thanksgiving dinner and then later desserts. On Christmas, we 31 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 2: would go to my uncle's house and every year he 32 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 2: would dress up like Santa Claus and come down the 33 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 2: stairs and get up and usually end up doing things 34 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 2: like distributing cans of like nuts or bottles of perkium 35 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 2: to his siblings. And he was my godfather, so he 36 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: would often also give me, say a barbie or. 37 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 3: Something like that. So that was my father's side. 38 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: My mother's side was a little bit rougher, So we 39 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: would go there and it's like there would always be 40 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: people drinking cold cups of coffee that had been out 41 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: all day. It was sort of endless coffee, endless cigarettes, 42 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,239 Speaker 2: endless donuts from Mike's donut Shop, which is a sort 43 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: of Boston institution, and it was me and my parents 44 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: and then eventually my brother. Each side of my family 45 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: there were many aunts, many uncles, cousins. Both my mother 46 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 2: and my father are from families in which there were 47 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 2: six children. 48 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 3: My father's side. 49 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: Was Irish American. My mother's side was a little bit 50 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: more mixed. I think at some point, when I was 51 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: maybe in elementary school, she started learning more, but what 52 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: she always said was that her family was. 53 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 3: French and Irish. 54 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: My mother is somebody who always really really wanted to 55 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: be a moment. She loved kids, she loved doing sort 56 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 2: of childlike things, and you know, in large part when 57 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: she was growing up, I think that she took care 58 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: of the people around her a great deal, including her siblings, 59 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 2: and that continued even into adulthood. If somebody in the 60 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: family was in trouble, she was definitely going to be 61 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 2: the person who wanted to go help out. I mean, 62 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: I remember, even you know, when I was a kid, 63 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: one of my aunts was often pretty broke and going 64 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: through something, and we would drive down to Everett where 65 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 2: she lived, and my brother and I would wait in 66 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: the car and they would go into the grocery store. 67 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 3: They'd go into the market basket and then they would both. 68 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: Come out, each with a full grocery car that my 69 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: mother had purchased for her sister. 70 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 4: Tracy was a opted from South Korea and was being 71 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 4: raised as an O'Neill. When she was five, her parents 72 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 4: adopted her brother, So their adoptions weren't exactly secrets. Their 73 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 4: biological beginnings weren't exactly disclosed either. 74 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 2: In terms of thinking about, you know, who's the real mother, Yeah, 75 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 2: I think that she did genuinely feel that she was. 76 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 3: And also I wouldn't necessarily dispute that. I do think 77 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 3: that it. 78 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 2: Was probably a role that she really hoped to preserve 79 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: and protect, and in some part of her mind sure 80 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 2: that my mother knew that she did not give birth 81 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 2: to me, she did not give birth to my brother, 82 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: and she had not given birth period, and I think 83 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 2: that can be really, really. 84 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 3: Difficult for a lot of women. 85 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: So in some ways, I think she probably felt that 86 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: she needed to really protect that as the mother, But 87 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 2: also I think she wanted me and my brother to 88 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 2: know that we did have real parents. 89 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 3: I felt that. 90 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 2: Perhaps there was a sense of fear that my mother 91 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 2: had about if I were to look for my biological 92 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 2: mother or have the curiosity to or the desire to, 93 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: and what that would mean about our relationship. I guess 94 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: that the tension in some ways is that you want 95 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: to do right by the people who you love. But 96 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 2: of course there is also in this case a real 97 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: physical difference. So although I completely was on board with 98 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,679 Speaker 2: the sense that family is a habit that you create 99 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 2: and it's showing up every day, I also understood that 100 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 2: there was a difference in some capacity between my parents 101 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: and I. 102 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's beautifully put in. Also, the idea that family 103 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 4: as a habit, I think, is such a such an 104 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 4: important one. As you were growing up, was there a 105 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 4: longing in you or did that materialize later. 106 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: I think that occasionally I had a curiosity about it, 107 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: and it wasn't that I necessarily had something specific that 108 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 2: I wanted to know, but I wanted to see, you know, 109 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 2: what this person's life was like. I wanted to know 110 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: who this person was, what this person's interests were, so 111 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: on and so forth. And I also think, but to 112 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 2: some extent, it's also just about being able to conceive 113 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: of control in your life. So I think from a 114 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: very young age I was aware of a certain randomness 115 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 2: and arbitrary most to life, because of course I didn't 116 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 2: know that I had been born in one place and 117 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 2: in one family and ended up in another. 118 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 4: What had you been told when you were a kid 119 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 4: about your birth circumstances. 120 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: I had been told that my birth mother could not 121 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: keep me. It wasn't specified what those reasons were, but 122 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: it was positioned somewhat as. 123 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 3: An issue of me need. 124 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 2: I also had been told that I had been born 125 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 2: in soul, and I was told a height, which was 126 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: actually primarily because when I was a kid, I was 127 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 2: at one point an aspirational child dancer, actress model, and 128 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 2: so the height had been dropped as a way of 129 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 2: offering hope that I might get taller, like tall enough 130 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 2: to be a viable model, which of course I was 131 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 2: never going to be. When I was a kid, my 132 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: mother had put me into dance classes. I don't think 133 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 2: that my mother knew exactly what she was getting into 134 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 2: at the time, but it was a real sort of 135 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: paget bar. So essentially I started taking these tap dancing lessons, 136 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 2: and pretty soon, you know, it was being suggested that 137 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: I participate in pageants. So a couple of years after that, 138 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 2: my first job in a way was doing like commercials 139 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: and catalogs modeling. You know, when I was maybe like 140 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 2: seven six seven years old, I stopped dancing and acting. 141 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 2: Around the time that I middle school. We moved to 142 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 2: New Hampshire, and I got very into figure skating. For 143 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 2: a while, I was obsessed, and then when I was 144 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 2: a teenager, I ructured a couple of vertebrae, so I stopped, 145 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: and in a way, I'd never really thought that much 146 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 2: about what it would be to go to college or 147 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 2: live in adult life. There was really only one thing 148 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: that I wanted to do, and that was skate. So 149 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 2: I sort of very quickly tried to suddenly become a student. 150 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 2: And I really didn't start to understand what it meant 151 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 2: to be a student until I was probably almost done 152 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 2: with college. When I was nineteen, I really wanted to 153 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 2: go study abroad. 154 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 3: I wanted to go study in Italy, and. 155 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 2: You know, I'd never been anywhere outside of the US 156 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 2: before except for when I was born. So you know, 157 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 2: I got home that summer and I had already gotten 158 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: into the program, but I needed to make money, and 159 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 2: so I was going around trying to apply to all 160 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 2: of these jobs, like basically any place that was within 161 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: like let's say forty minutes the house that I grew 162 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,599 Speaker 2: up in, I would go and I would apply for 163 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 2: a job, and I wasn't getting any traction. And so 164 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: after a few weeks, the one place that I could 165 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 2: get a job was this strip club in Billiards Hall 166 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 2: called Mark Show Place, which was in Bedford, Newhampshire. So 167 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: I went there and essentially I asked for a job, 168 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: and you know, I exist and looked enough like a woman, 169 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 2: I guess that they were willing to hire me. 170 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 3: So I started bartending there. 171 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 2: So at some point my father asked me about my 172 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: new job, and I said that I was working at 173 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: a place called March Showplace. What I hadn't really anticipated 174 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: was that he was going to think that it was 175 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: really great that his daughter got this job and start 176 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,119 Speaker 2: telling people at work that his daughter got this job. Essentially, 177 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 2: he found out for his coworkers that it was a 178 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 2: strip club. 179 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 3: So one night he and my mother showed up and they. 180 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: Were incredibly distraught and you know, they wanted me to leave. 181 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 3: There was a pretty big scene. 182 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 2: The owners of the club called for security and in 183 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 2: the moment the options were essentially that I could leave 184 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 2: with them or I could stay and continue working, and 185 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: I decided to stay and keep working because it was 186 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: the only way that I was going to get to 187 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 2: go study in Italy. So I graduated and I moved 188 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 2: to New York City because my best friend, who's like 189 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: my brother Ali from college, was. 190 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 3: Moving to New York City and. 191 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 2: He was basically right about everything and the most fun 192 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 2: smart person. 193 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 3: I came to the city. 194 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 2: On the Chinatown bus, which, as I think a lot 195 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 2: of people probably know, was apt to burst into flames 196 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 2: on any given ride, but also cost like ten or 197 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 2: fifteen dollars at the time, So I basically just got 198 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 2: on the bus with my suitcase. I had like six 199 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: hundred dollars in my pocket, and that was. 200 00:12:53,320 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 4: It will be better back in a moment with more 201 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 4: family secrets. Tracy spends her first years in the city 202 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 4: tending bar and figuring out what she wants to do 203 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 4: with her life. She becomes serious about writing, goes to 204 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 4: grad school, and continues to bartend as she also starts 205 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 4: her academic career. Then the pandemic hits, which of course 206 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 4: changed many of our lives, both in dramatic ways and 207 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 4: as subtle ones. In Tracy's case, her curiosity about her 208 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 4: birth mother, which has ebbed and flowed over the years, 209 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 4: comes into focus. 210 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 2: So this was the spring of twenty twenty and I 211 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 2: was reading the news, and I remember that this article 212 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 2: came up. It was in the South China Morning Post, 213 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 2: and it was about a man in South Korea, and 214 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 2: this older man had died in a locked covid ward. 215 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 2: There were details in it like that he was only 216 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 2: ninety pounds and that there was nobody to contact about 217 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: his body when he died, And there was something about 218 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 2: the image of this rail older person alone dying that 219 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 2: really it was too much for me to bear. So 220 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: at that point I felt that there was no longer 221 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 2: an option, and I was going to need to go 222 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 2: find the mother who gave birth to me, because she 223 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 2: too could be like this man dying alone. 224 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 4: What's so amazing about that story is that I think 225 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 4: so often someone embarking on a search like this is 226 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 4: embarking for their own emotional reasons or to fulfill something 227 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 4: for themselves, And in your case, the impetus turns that 228 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 4: on its head a bit. 229 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that there were reasons in 230 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: both directions. So on the one hand, there was the 231 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 2: fear that I would never get to meet this person if, 232 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 2: in fact they, let's say, died of COVID at that 233 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 2: particular moment in time. So there is the question of 234 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 2: a lost opportunity for myself. But there also seemed to 235 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 2: me something very sad there, because I had sort of 236 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 2: spent a great deal of my life thinking about how 237 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: this woman who gave birth to me had chosen a 238 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 2: particular path for herself, and that path was not necessarily 239 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: the path that most women followed. In some ways, I 240 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 2: had imagined that this person had maybe you, decided against 241 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 2: having a child and could still be somebody who had no. 242 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 3: Child, no family, no spouse. 243 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 2: And I was sort of interested in this person for 244 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: making that choice. But I also could see how that 245 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 2: could be a terribly sad and frightening place to be 246 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 2: in at that moment in history. 247 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 4: As is the case with many adoptees and other people 248 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 4: who don't have much, if any information about their origins, 249 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 4: Tracy constructs narratives that live alongside the narratives that are 250 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 4: constructed for her. So in this moment, her narrative becomes 251 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 4: perhaps this is my birth mother's story. This thought, which 252 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 4: takes root during the pandemic, also comes at a time 253 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 4: of tremendous change in Tracy's life. She ends a long relationship, 254 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 4: is offered a job teaching at Vassar College, and moves 255 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 4: from her beloved Brooklyn to Poughkeepsie, New York. It was 256 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 4: in this perfect storm that she begins to actively look 257 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 4: for her birth mother. 258 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 3: I had sent. 259 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 5: Out some emails to various agencies that do things like 260 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 5: try to locate the parents of adopted children. 261 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 2: There's one agency in Korea that is specifically doing that work, 262 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 2: but I also reached out to different groups, and then 263 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: I started reaching out to private investigators. At the time, 264 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 2: because COVID was ravaging the world, many agencies were essentially 265 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 2: not running, or even if they weren't, referring to themselves 266 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 2: as not running. People were out of office, people were 267 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 2: at home, so on, so forth. And it occurred to 268 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 2: me at a certain point that perhaps the people who 269 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 2: might still be working were private detectives. So I spoke 270 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 2: to several private investigators, and most of them felt that 271 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 2: I simply didn't have enough information to run with, or 272 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 2: they would say something along the lines of that they 273 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 2: could do a search, but there were no guarantees or 274 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 2: they would say if they spoke about the process that 275 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 2: they were going to follow, I would realize that they 276 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: were essentially just going to do what the agencies did, 277 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: which was running a few things in a database. Then, 278 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 2: after several unsuccessful conversations with private investigators, I found a 279 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 2: guy named Joe Adams, and Joe, from what I could 280 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 2: tell on the internet, worked in several different countries. I 281 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 2: believed that the website that I found him on was 282 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 2: called something like International Private Investigators dot com. 283 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 3: And so I called. 284 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 2: And I left him a message, and. 285 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 3: Pretty soon after that he called me back. 286 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 2: And at the time I was so dejected. Most of 287 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 2: the world was pretty shy down at the time, and 288 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 2: I was essentially living in pajamas and drinking coffee. 289 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 3: And like smoking cigarettes for breakfast. 290 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 2: But the morning that Joe called, it felt like suddenly 291 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 2: I had life in my body again. So Joe called, 292 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 2: and unlike the previous investigators, he felt like I did 293 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 2: have a great deal of information, or at least that's 294 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 2: what he expressed to me. And so pretty soon we 295 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 2: were talking on the phone pretty regularly. And I'll say 296 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 2: that Joe is also just really fun. Joe's kind of 297 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 2: a peach. He's just fun to talk to, and he 298 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 2: gave me a great deal of time, even though in 299 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 2: fact no matter he had changed hands whatsoever. So he 300 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 2: said that he was going to maybe reach out to 301 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: a fat lazy bomb in Tampa to get some connections 302 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 2: to feed on the ground in Korea. 303 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 3: The fat lazy Bomb in Tampa was his. 304 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 2: Brother, And what I hadn't known when I first called 305 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 2: him was that not only was Joe a private investigator, 306 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 2: he also had been an operator for the CIA. 307 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 3: So his grand strategy was that we needed. 308 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 2: To make contacts at the embassy because essentially, the spies 309 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 2: at the embassy were going to know who could be 310 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 2: trusted in Korea to do more investigatory work, whereas we 311 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 2: would not know who was good there. At the time, 312 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 2: it didn't really make sense to try to get a 313 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 2: private investigator in Korea because private investigation itself had only 314 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 2: just become legal, and there had been several fairly publicized 315 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 2: cases of people who were positioning themselves as private investigators, 316 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 2: stealing people's identity and so forth. So the notion that 317 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 2: we should try to find somebody trustworthy there made sense 318 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 2: to me. 319 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 4: At the time, Joe may have a grand strategy, but 320 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 4: not so much in the way of follow through. He 321 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 4: just kind of vanishes. But Tracy's determined to continue the 322 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 4: investigatory work on her own. Joe had suggested that she 323 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 4: try to locate people who had worked at the agency 324 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 4: that facilitated her adoption. This is how she finds a 325 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 4: social worker named Marty Cardona who lives nearby in New York. 326 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 2: I called her up and she said she was willing 327 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 2: to meet me, so I drove up to go talk 328 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 2: to her. At the time, I had just been in 329 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 2: this car accident and I hadn't replaced my car yet, 330 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 2: and so I basically bought this car and then hadn't 331 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 2: really driven it. 332 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 3: And then I drove in this I wouldn't say snowstorm, 333 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 3: but I drove through some snow. 334 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 2: That was rather intimidating at the time, but maybe I'm 335 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 2: diseasily intimidated to a panera bread and we sat down 336 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: and talked. So at the time I was looking for 337 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: something really specific. I had gone with a mission, and 338 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 2: my mission was that I was going to see if 339 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 2: she could help me obtain the resident ID number for 340 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 2: my birth mother, because with the resident ID number and 341 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 2: some other information. You can usually find an address on 342 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 2: someone in Korea, so Marty didn't have that member. What 343 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 2: she did have for me was essentially a story. So 344 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 2: the story was about her own daughter, and so Marty 345 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 2: was a social worker, but she had also adopted a 346 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 2: couple of children, and her daughter, Julie, had wanted to find. 347 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 3: Her birth mother. 348 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 2: You unlike me, Julie figured that out at a pretty 349 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 2: young age though, when she was maybe twelve or thirteen, 350 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 2: she and Marty went to Korea and they went to 351 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 2: have dinner with Julie's birth mother, and so Julie essentially 352 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 2: sat down and lived at her mother for the first 353 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 2: time since she had and a baby really and said, 354 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 2: I've thought of you every. 355 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 3: Day of my life. And so. 356 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 2: When Marty told me this, she shook her head. It 357 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 2: was the sort of rueful gesture, I guess, and she 358 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 2: knew her daughter really well worse. And so the way 359 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 2: that she put it was that he knew that Julie 360 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 2: had said that she thought of her mother every day 361 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 2: of her life, and what she needed in that moment 362 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 2: was for her mother to say that back to her. Instead, 363 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 2: what her mother said Julie again only maybe twelve or 364 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 2: thirteen years old. Was everything turned out as it should have. 365 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 3: You grew up in America. 366 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 2: You're healthy, you're strong, everything turned out as it should be. 367 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 2: So that was pretty devastating for Julie at the time. 368 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 2: But then many years passed and at some point Julie's 369 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 2: mother wanted to see her, and so she wrote Julia 370 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 2: a letter and she asked if she could come to America, 371 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 2: and she said, I know that I wasn't there for 372 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 2: you when I should have been, but please let me 373 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 2: see you. 374 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 3: I'll do anything. 375 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 2: I'll even stand behind a plant if you want me to. 376 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 2: I won't tell anyone who I am. 377 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 3: I just want to see you. 378 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 2: But at that point, Julie had already been hurt for 379 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 2: many years, and she was an adult now, and she 380 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 2: decided that she did not want to see her mother. 381 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 2: So Marty told me that story essentially as a sort 382 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 2: of warning. You know, she wanted me to know that 383 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 2: sometimes people think that they want to know and it 384 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 2: ends up being really painful. 385 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 4: This heartbreaking story does not dissuade or deter Tracy from 386 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 4: her search. She does not do one, but six DNA 387 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 4: tests in pursuit of answers. Nothing is yielding results. There 388 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 4: certainly are no close relations coming up. But finally, on 389 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,719 Speaker 4: the sixth test, there's a faint hint of possibility, a 390 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 4: man named Philip, who is her third cousin's father. Pretty distant, 391 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 4: but still a possible gateway into the truth of her maternity. 392 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 2: I had been operating on the premise that if I 393 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 2: found a location on my birth mother and she was alive, 394 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 2: and that if I went to see her, then I 395 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 2: would talk to my parents about it. But in some capacity, 396 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 2: it didn't feel particularly like there was anything to say 397 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 2: before I knew whether that would happen, because nothing. 398 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 3: Was materially changing. I had an. 399 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: Interest in meeting this person, but I don't know it 400 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 2: just it didn't seem like there. 401 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 3: Was much to say. I also never I didn't know 402 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 3: if I. 403 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 2: Was going to find her, but I also didn't know 404 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 2: if she was dead or alive. 405 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 4: So you do have the conversation with your mom. Anything 406 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 4: about that conversation and what that felt like, I dreaded it. 407 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 2: I think that no matter whether or not I felt 408 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 2: that it was fair to want to meet my birth mother, 409 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 2: I had always had a sense that this was something 410 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 2: that would be extremely painful for. 411 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 3: The mother who raised me to experience. 412 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 2: She didn't say to me ever, that she feared it, 413 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: but I guess that I would say. 414 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 3: I know her pretty well. 415 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 2: Too, So I called her and I told her about it, 416 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 2: and you know, I could tell that she was really 417 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 2: trying to. 418 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 3: Not show how she felt. 419 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 2: I'm sure she had a lot of feelings about it, 420 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:22,239 Speaker 2: but didn't necessarily voice any disapproval or anything like that. 421 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 2: But I could hear that she, like me, was trying 422 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 2: to control her voice. 423 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 3: And also, unlike me, you know, she was crying a 424 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 3: little bit. 425 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 4: We'll be right back, and so Tracy is off to Korea. 426 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 4: It's December twenty twenty one, and pandemic travel restrictions are 427 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 4: still pretty draconian, especially in Korea, where the omicron variant 428 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 4: is quickly spreading. She's prepared to quarantine in a government 429 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,479 Speaker 4: facility before going to find her family, but Philip has 430 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 4: urged her to tell the people at the airport her story. 431 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 4: He even suggests shed cry on command, thinking a display 432 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 4: of tears might help her get out of the quarantine period. 433 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 4: Tracy thinks all of this sounds implausible and ridiculous, but 434 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 4: she tries it. She can't quite conjure tears, but storytelling 435 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 4: narrative is indeed on her side here. 436 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 2: When I got to the airport and I was being checked, 437 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 2: I did explain my story, and there was a great 438 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 2: deal of miscommunication at the time, but I ended up 439 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 2: being allowed to then, instead of quarantine, go to a 440 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 2: cousin's house. 441 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:50,719 Speaker 3: I had never met this cousin before. 442 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 2: Her name was Wanie and she was in her early fifties. 443 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 2: So I then needed to get from the airport to 444 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 2: her house. So I rolled up in the cab to 445 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 2: this very large apartment complex and we stopped and I 446 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 2: opened the door, and the first thing that happened was 447 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 2: that this. 448 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 3: Older woman who was. 449 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 2: Shaking and weeping, grabbed me and started holding me, and 450 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 2: she was crying and saying things, and I had no 451 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 2: idea what she was saying because she was speaking Korean. 452 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 2: At first, I didn't even understand if this was my 453 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 2: birth mother or not. As it happened, it was my 454 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 2: aunt young Lap. 455 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 3: And there was a crowd of people around. One of 456 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 3: them was my cousin Juanyi. 457 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 2: Whose house I was going to stay at. One was 458 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 2: her husband, Jeriyang. There was my older sister and Juan, 459 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 2: and there was my older brother in Chian, but I 460 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 2: actually didn't know that he was my brother at the 461 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 2: time either, and so I was sort of brought inside. 462 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 3: Before even all of the introductions were done. 463 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 2: We went up many flights they're an elevator to the apartment, 464 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 2: and then Wantie, my cousin, asked me if I wanted 465 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 2: to eat something, and we sort of fat around the 466 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 2: table somewhat awkwardly while I sort of like held slices 467 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 2: of apple. 468 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 4: To go back to the whole idea of narratives, the 469 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 4: narratives that you had, you know that sort of propelled 470 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 4: this journey was maybe my biological mother never had any children, 471 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 4: maybe she's alone, maybe she's even going to die alone. 472 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 4: And then you discover that she indeed has a number 473 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 4: of children, and that you have biological siblings. 474 00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. 475 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 2: So right before where I arrived in Korea, Philip told 476 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 2: me that my birth mother had three children with three 477 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 2: different men. And there were the two older in one 478 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 2: and in him, who were fifteen and seventeen years older. 479 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 3: Than I was. 480 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 2: And then there was a younger brother, young Ben, who 481 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 2: was like three or four years younger than me. And 482 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 2: for some reason Philip couldn't remember how much younger, But 483 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 2: the first night that I arrived in Korea, two of 484 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 2: the siblings were there, the older two the younger one, 485 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 2: Young Ben was not. 486 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 4: Tracy enters a veritable sea of stories about her birth mother, 487 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 4: a riot of narratives in a language she doesn't know. 488 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 4: Even though she's now in Korea and closer to meeting 489 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 4: her birth mother than ever before, the truth of her 490 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 4: birth mother's story and therefore her own origin story, continues 491 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 4: to be elusive. 492 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: So when I went to Korea, I didn't speak Korean, 493 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 2: and I. 494 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 3: Still don't, so most of the communication with. 495 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 2: My Korean family was done by using language translation apps 496 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 2: on smartphones. It was really bizarre because I would say 497 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 2: something and then Google Translate would repeat what I said 498 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 2: in another language, and then whoever I was talking to 499 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 2: would say their piece, and then their translation app would. 500 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 3: Say something back. But the translations were not always great. 501 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 2: Even so, I was able to at a certain point 502 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 2: understand a story that was being offered to me because 503 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 2: one day my cousin Juani, who did speak so English 504 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 2: limited English, very carefully wrote down. 505 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 3: A narrative for me. 506 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 2: She wrote me a letter essentially, and in this letter, 507 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 2: She said that my birth mother and my birth father 508 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 2: had been having an affair, and at a certain point 509 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 2: my mother got pregnant. When she told my father, there 510 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 2: was an issue because my father already. 511 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 3: Had a family and so did she. 512 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 2: According to Wannie, my father's wife found out that my 513 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 2: mother was pregnant and demanded that my mother get an abortion. 514 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 2: But later my mother simply thought that she had a 515 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 2: miscarriage and didn't know that she had given birth to 516 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 2: me at all. 517 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 4: What were you making of that? 518 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 3: I thought it was crazy. 519 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 2: I think that I would have felt that it was 520 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 2: crazy no matter the context. But for some reason, especially 521 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 2: reading the letter in these incredibly precise letters in my 522 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 2: cousin's handwriting, I found utterly ridiculous, and so I confronted 523 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 2: her about it, and we talked about it, but of 524 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 2: course there was the language barrier, so we ended up 525 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 2: almost playing something like miscarriage charades, because I needed to 526 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 2: try to act out the differences to her between birth, 527 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 2: a miscarriage, a still birth, really any way that a 528 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 2: human could have us out of a vagata, And I 529 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 2: was asking her many questions about it, and she insisted 530 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 2: that my mother did not know that I had been 531 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 2: born and really did think. 532 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,439 Speaker 3: That it was a miscarriage. And she said that it was. 533 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 2: Possible because Berth is crazy. There's a lot of pain. 534 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,359 Speaker 2: Maybe you get an epidural and so the drugs make 535 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 2: you even crazier. And she said to me, essentially, look 536 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 2: are you a mother? And I said now, and she said, well, 537 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 2: Benny wouldn't understand. 538 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 4: All of this is confusing and exhausting. In fact, Tracy 539 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 4: is utterly exhausted. Getting it the truth is practically an 540 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,760 Speaker 4: Olympian effort. She's sifting through a language barrier and multiple 541 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 4: agendas about Juan Yee. She writes, she can't breathe without lying. 542 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 4: And still a week has passed and Tracy hasn't yet 543 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 4: met her mother. 544 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,760 Speaker 2: About a week after I had been at Wannie's in Dejon, 545 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 2: my mother took a bus from Sul and she came 546 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 2: with the aunt who i'd met before, young Monk. 547 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 3: So I was waiting for her. 548 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 2: With Janie around the table, and then Janie's. 549 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 3: Dogs started barking. And when they began barking, I. 550 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 2: Knew that that was because somebody was at the door, 551 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,399 Speaker 2: and that somebody was going to be. 552 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 3: Mayoma, the woman who gave birth to me. 553 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 2: So she came in and she was wearing a long 554 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 2: block down coat. Her hair had been dyed a almost 555 00:37:54,640 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 2: frayon red, and she started moving toward me, and she 556 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 2: was clapping her hands and saying Tracy, Tracy and Tracia. 557 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 2: And she got closer to me, and I was standing. 558 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:17,879 Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe I was loving toward her too, 559 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,760 Speaker 2: I'm not really sure. But then she sort of almost 560 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 2: launched herself at me, and he was holding me and 561 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,839 Speaker 2: she was crying, and we sort of stood there for 562 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 2: a while together and then said my name again, almost 563 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:43,280 Speaker 2: like a question, and I said, yes, we've met once before. 564 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 3: It was sort of surreal. 565 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 2: There's this moment that has been something that has been 566 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 2: on your mind for so long, and then she was there. 567 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 2: And of course she's essentially registering to me as just 568 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 2: a stranger, and she was just a stranger, but there's 569 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 2: also a deep desire to recognize something. So I think 570 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 2: I was searching in a way in the moment for 571 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 2: something familiar. 572 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 4: And in that case, you have an actual interpreter. You know, 573 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 4: no more Google Translate. You're gonna actually have an actual interpreter, 574 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 4: and it's a chance for you to really ask questions 575 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 4: and get answers in real time, but the interpreter won't interpret. 576 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 2: We sat down at a table and I called a service, 577 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 2: an interpreter service, and I put the phone on speaker 578 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:46,440 Speaker 2: phone between us, so that this interpreter could tell me 579 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 2: what my Allah was saying, and so that he could 580 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 2: tell her what I was saying and what happened. So 581 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 2: I didn't really get to begin with a question. As 582 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:02,280 Speaker 2: soon as we sat down, she starts ar did batting, essentially, 583 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 2: and she spoke for something like twenty minutes straight. 584 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,240 Speaker 3: And essentially she repeated the. 585 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 2: Story that Juani had shared with me, that she hadn't 586 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,280 Speaker 2: known that she had given birth, and she was saying 587 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:22,839 Speaker 2: she was sorry. 588 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 3: But there were some conflicting details. So, for example, while 589 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 3: she did say that she didn't know that she had given. 590 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 2: Birth to me and she thought it was a miscarriage, 591 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 2: but she also said that she thought of me every 592 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 2: day of her life and prayed for me and prayed 593 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:44,800 Speaker 2: that I was okay. 594 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 4: And then you asked her if she believed in God 595 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:48,479 Speaker 4: at one. 596 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,879 Speaker 3: Point, yes, and she that she did not believe in God. 597 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 4: Right, just so many layers. 598 00:40:55,080 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you fire the interpreter, Yeah. 599 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 4: Because he refusing to interpret. He won't tell her what 600 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 4: you're saying, and he won't tell you what she's saying. 601 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 4: There's like some version of she's your mother, she loves you. 602 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 603 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 2: So I asked him to ask her why she was 604 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 2: praying for me and praying that I was okay if 605 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 2: she didn't think that I had ever been born, And 606 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 2: he said to me, what matters here is that your 607 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 2: mother loves you. And I ended up having an argument 608 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,760 Speaker 2: with the interpreter, and finally we got. 609 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 3: Off the phone. By the time that I went within one. 610 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 2: My sister the Soul to see my mother, I had 611 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 2: heard several things. I had heard that my mother was 612 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 2: a law shark. I had been told that she stole money. 613 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 2: I had been told if my mother asked me for money, 614 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 2: not to give it to her. I'd been told that 615 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 2: she would act like she needed it and she didn't. 616 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,240 Speaker 2: I'd been told that she stole money from my sister. 617 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 2: Had been told that the way that she and my 618 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 2: father met was that he launed him money when she 619 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 2: was a lawn shark and he. 620 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 3: Refused to give it back. 621 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 2: I had been told that his wife said that if 622 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 2: my mother had an abortion, she would give some of 623 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,439 Speaker 2: the money back that he of my mother and I. 624 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 3: Had been told that. 625 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 2: Eventually, my mother decided to induce labor two months early 626 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 2: because that would be the closest she could come to 627 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,720 Speaker 2: getting an abortion at the time. 628 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:38,000 Speaker 3: She couldn't find a late term abortionist. But there was 629 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 3: a chance that the baby. 630 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,719 Speaker 2: Would not survive and that that would be enough to 631 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 2: appease my father's wife. 632 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 3: So she decided to do it. 633 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 2: And in this way I was able to recover something 634 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,760 Speaker 2: like thirty five thousand dollars. So we went to Seoul 635 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 2: and we arrived at my mother's apartment, and my mother 636 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 2: lived high rise and so it's a big building and 637 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,880 Speaker 2: it's she essentially lived above a luxury. 638 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 3: In your mind at that. 639 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 4: Time, with all of those stories that you had no 640 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:19,760 Speaker 4: way of knowing what percentage if any of them were true, 641 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 4: where was your head at that point? I mean, you know, 642 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,360 Speaker 4: you were exhausted, you stopped eating, you at one point 643 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,279 Speaker 4: right that you were drowning in her. You know, a 644 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 4: biological parent is certainly not everything, but it is a 645 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 4: powerful idea. It's a powerful thing. And you know, what 646 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 4: you end up finding out is that this morass is 647 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 4: part of how you actually are here, you know of 648 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,359 Speaker 4: your existence, and you also wrote at one point her 649 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 4: narrative was an ocean. I wasn't going to. 650 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 1: Escape from it. 651 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,360 Speaker 4: So that sense of just like profound. I don't know 652 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 4: whether you felt trapped or whether you felt claustrophobic, but like, 653 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 4: during this visit with your oma, she asks for your 654 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 4: assurance that you won't abandon her, which is just, you know, 655 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 4: kind of an astonishing irony. 656 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:19,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, So she asked me to promise that I wouldn't 657 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:25,239 Speaker 2: abandon her, and at the time, I said, Okay, I 658 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 2: won't and I really wanted to be there for her. 659 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,840 Speaker 2: In some way that's what she wanted, and I'm not 660 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 2: really sure why, but there was such an immense desperation 661 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 2: and sense of need when she said it to me. 662 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 2: At the same time, I was starting to feel pretty crazy. 663 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 2: I hadn't really been going outside for most of this 664 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 2: time because I was supposed to be self isolating at 665 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 2: my cousin, and I wasn't necessarily eating all the time. 666 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,319 Speaker 2: Early in the visit I had eaten more, but as 667 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 2: time went on, it was like I couldn't done anything, 668 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 2: and so I was sort of moving around almost dizzy 669 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 2: all the time. 670 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:19,759 Speaker 3: With her sleeping right. 671 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,320 Speaker 2: And it's almost like I felt as though that entire 672 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:30,960 Speaker 2: time I was wrapped in this really surreal, screwed up womb, 673 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,920 Speaker 2: and I couldn't get out of it. And because I 674 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,719 Speaker 2: couldn't get out of it, I could no longer even 675 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,840 Speaker 2: tell exactly what was real anymore. 676 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 4: Tracy stays in Korea for thirteen days, five of these 677 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,440 Speaker 4: in the presence of her oma. She's meant to stay longer, 678 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 4: but she cuts her trips short. She just needs to go, 679 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:52,879 Speaker 4: she really does. 680 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 2: When I decided to go, Essentially what happened is I 681 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:04,680 Speaker 2: had gone when my Alma and her little dog that 682 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,759 Speaker 2: she gave the name that she had intended to give 683 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,320 Speaker 2: me on a little trip to one of my aunt's houses. 684 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 2: And so with me and Almah and a couple aunts 685 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:25,719 Speaker 2: and an uncle, and the aunts were so nice to me. 686 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:32,799 Speaker 2: They made mandu, these very large dumplings. They ordered this 687 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 2: pork belly to eat. And at some point when I 688 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,879 Speaker 2: was there, I said to my mother, so when will 689 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,719 Speaker 2: I meet my brother down Ben come. 690 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 3: Ben was the younger brother. 691 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 2: And one of the uncles who had gone on some 692 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,560 Speaker 2: business trips to the United States, and therefore spoke more 693 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:56,560 Speaker 2: English was sort of translating, and he said to me, 694 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 2: your mother says you're not going to meet him, you understand, 695 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,799 Speaker 2: And I said, I know that she's saying that I'm 696 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,680 Speaker 2: not going to meet him, because I could see she 697 00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,320 Speaker 2: was shaking her head and saying honey yo, which is 698 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:07,640 Speaker 2: like no. 699 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 3: So she was saying honeyo an yow, honey yow. 700 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 2: I said, but why, And he said, you're not going 701 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 2: to meet count Ben because you don't know about you. 702 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:23,680 Speaker 2: So I realized in that moment that there was not 703 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:29,680 Speaker 2: really going to be a real reckoning with either like 704 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 2: my relationship to this person or the stories that she 705 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:40,640 Speaker 2: had told me, and that she essentially was ashamed because 706 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 2: I had been the child that she had out of 707 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 2: this affair, and you know, it had been pretty bad 708 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,560 Speaker 2: and she had to leave town, but. 709 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 3: She had started over again, comforter the word. 710 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:59,640 Speaker 2: She remarried, she had another child, she did separate from 711 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 2: that house spend. But I'd lived a very different life 712 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,800 Speaker 2: in which she ended up doing very well. In fact, 713 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,720 Speaker 2: she claimed that after everything that had happened with my father, 714 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,520 Speaker 2: she went from being totally impoverished to becoming a millionaire. 715 00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 2: So the life that she had had, you know, with 716 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 2: Young Bin and as Kiang. Ben's mother was very different 717 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,120 Speaker 2: and there was nothing to feel ashamed about there, and she, 718 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:30,000 Speaker 2: I think, wanted to sort of protect that story, protect 719 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 2: that part of her life where she didn't have to 720 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:36,759 Speaker 2: feel ashamed and where perhaps she had a child who 721 00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 2: maybe thought of her as a really great lom. But 722 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,960 Speaker 2: I just could see that even though I understood that 723 00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,080 Speaker 2: there wasn't really a place for me there, and there 724 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:51,080 Speaker 2: was something somewhat unbearable about the way in which my 725 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 2: mother would sort of vacillate between being desperately needy, you know, 726 00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,840 Speaker 2: asking me not to abandon her, becoming frenetic if I 727 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,120 Speaker 2: wanted to leave the house, and then essentially wanting to 728 00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,200 Speaker 2: pretend that I didn't exist. 729 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,840 Speaker 4: You head home early, and she's literally holding onto the 730 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:13,560 Speaker 4: side of the taxi as you're pulling away. 731 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,239 Speaker 2: I came back to New York City after the trip, 732 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:23,279 Speaker 2: and I wanted to write about the experience, Partially, I 733 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:27,560 Speaker 2: think because the story had changed so many times, and 734 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,279 Speaker 2: I at least wanted to be able to remember how 735 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,839 Speaker 2: the story was told to me in the moments at 736 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 2: which I realized things weren't true. 737 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,239 Speaker 3: But also because even after I. 738 00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:44,600 Speaker 2: Left, I felt like I still didn't understand who this 739 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,640 Speaker 2: person who had given birth to me was, and I 740 00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,360 Speaker 2: think I hoped that somehow, in writing about it, it 741 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:57,600 Speaker 2: was going to become clearer to me. So I was 742 00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 2: still teaching, you know, seeing frogs, and life kind of 743 00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 2: continued in the messy way that life does. 744 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:09,719 Speaker 3: Broke up with another boyfriend. 745 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:12,759 Speaker 2: You know, I don't know if this is a sort 746 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 2: of advanced mode of repression or something, but I was 747 00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,919 Speaker 2: sort of sick for a long time in a weird way, 748 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,479 Speaker 2: which is essentially that I just I couldn't stop falling 749 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 2: asleep for a long time. I think I was just 750 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,760 Speaker 2: trying to get through a day write down what had happened. 751 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 2: And then eventually I went on a trip to see 752 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,680 Speaker 2: my very close friend Ali in Berlin. 753 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,640 Speaker 3: And you know, I refer. 754 00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,440 Speaker 2: To him as my brother, and I have since we 755 00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,359 Speaker 2: were in college together, and even though we don't see 756 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,759 Speaker 2: each other all the time, we do talk almost every day. 757 00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:58,680 Speaker 2: So you know, I went to Berlin just did regular 758 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:04,600 Speaker 2: things with him, like making coughing, walking his dog TV, 759 00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,120 Speaker 2: going to the little dive bar that he had been 760 00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,920 Speaker 2: going to for years, Mini bar Sown, and so forth, 761 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 2: and in a lot of ways. I think the thing 762 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 2: that ended up recovering me or helping me to start 763 00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:27,680 Speaker 2: feeling like myself again was just having this time with 764 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,040 Speaker 2: this person who I chose it as my family. 765 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:34,520 Speaker 3: That's beautiful. Are you glad that? 766 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:34,920 Speaker 2: You know? 767 00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,800 Speaker 4: Glad is perhaps the wrong word, But in a universe 768 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,600 Speaker 4: where you had never made this trip, and you had 769 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,880 Speaker 4: never met Oma, and you had never found all this out, 770 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:45,839 Speaker 4: is one preferable to the other. 771 00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, in a way I would say that 772 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,759 Speaker 2: I still don't know, but I'm glad that I went, 773 00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,080 Speaker 2: and I'm glad that I met this person. I'm glad 774 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:58,359 Speaker 2: that I experienced her. I mean, of course, when I 775 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:02,600 Speaker 2: was born, I'm sure there was someumb experiencing of her, 776 00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:04,920 Speaker 2: but that is before my conscious mind. 777 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:06,359 Speaker 3: Had no memory of that. 778 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,920 Speaker 2: And you know, I think that I'm just somebody who. 779 00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:11,359 Speaker 3: Wants to live. 780 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:21,720 Speaker 4: Here's Tracy reading one last passage from Woman of Interest. 781 00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,319 Speaker 2: This might have been the moment I understood the inimitable 782 00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:29,880 Speaker 2: bond of mothers and children. 783 00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:30,760 Speaker 3: I didn't. 784 00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,760 Speaker 2: I held this woman like a metal music stand wrapped 785 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,799 Speaker 2: in a packing blanket. Her ammoniac smile fastened over me 786 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,640 Speaker 2: like an assaulting myt and I did feel as though 787 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,120 Speaker 2: I might cry, but not anymore than I'm watching a 788 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 2: conventional movie that went. 789 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:47,440 Speaker 3: Through the cheap blows. 790 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,240 Speaker 2: I let my Ama Babel and hold Babel, and hold, 791 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:54,719 Speaker 2: and with dumb hope, I held on longer, as though 792 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 2: then the ineffable would come, a recognition of some unimpeachable link, 793 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,080 Speaker 2: shared compulsion to want more or else, a love prior. 794 00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:05,520 Speaker 3: To election in a world of hard. 795 00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,839 Speaker 2: Choices, I held her. I did, though there was no 796 00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,759 Speaker 2: way out of the truth. I was nothing but a 797 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,680 Speaker 2: stone colds cardboard cut out of stranger come to town 798 00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,719 Speaker 2: in the iron clench of a shuddering old woman. 799 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:18,680 Speaker 3: With a red dye job. 800 00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,640 Speaker 2: She'd missed a handfull of t hair at the back 801 00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:26,200 Speaker 2: of her head. I kneweds Tracia, Tracia, he whispered, like 802 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,600 Speaker 2: a question. Nay, I said, we've met once before. 803 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,799 Speaker 3: Then, for the second time in my life, she let 804 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:34,040 Speaker 3: me go. 805 00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,279 Speaker 4: Mollie's Acre is the story editor and Dylan Fagan is 806 00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 4: the executive producer. If you have a family Secret, you'd 807 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,520 Speaker 4: like Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio Pere. On 808 00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:54,080 Speaker 4: an upcoming episode, our number is one eight eight eight 809 00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,480 Speaker 4: Secret zero. That's the number zero. You can also find 810 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:03,120 Speaker 4: me on Instagram at Danny Rider, and if you'd like 811 00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,520 Speaker 4: to know more about the story that inspired this podcast, 812 00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:07,799 Speaker 4: check out my memoir Inheritance. 813 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,640 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 814 00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.