Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
Speaker 2: and speaker.
Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
Speaker 3: and course creator. We are two working parents who love
Speaker 3: our careers and our families.
Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun,
Speaker 2: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 2: This episode is airing in late June of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: We're going to be doing our annual at this point
Speaker 2: midyear goal check in, So in December of most years,
Speaker 2: Sarah and I share our goals for the upcoming year,
Speaker 2: and halfway through the year it's time to check in.
Speaker 1: And we do this for a few reasons. I mean,
Speaker 1: basically to keep ourselves honest.
Speaker 2: Because on some level, there's not a huge point in
Speaker 2: setting goals and then completely forgetting about them, and it
Speaker 2: gives us an idea, a chance to celebrate what's worked
Speaker 2: or maybe pivot on what hasn't right.
Speaker 3: Sarah, Yes, and we hope that if you're anything like us,
Speaker 3: I think, especially me, you enjoy hearing how other people
Speaker 3: approach their goals and either celebrate wins or bemoaned struggles,
Speaker 3: et cetera. So we find the process really valuable. I mean,
Speaker 3: I personally do this five times a year, but Laura
Speaker 3: will not let me have five Best of Both Worlds
Speaker 3: episodes dedicated to this.
Speaker 1: So I think we've come like a good compromise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe your check in two a year is good.
Speaker 2: And you can also go listen to Best Laid Plans
Speaker 2: and hear a few more about Sarah's various goals and
Speaker 2: how she executes on them.
Speaker 3: Because you know, it's it's been a pretty good year
Speaker 3: so far. I mean, Sarah, would you say it's been
Speaker 3: a good year?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: We'll find out, and those sections coming up, we will
Speaker 3: discuss what has worked and what has not.
Speaker 1: Got to leave some mystery. Le's leave some mystery.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, we'll start with our career goals, I guess,
Speaker 2: I mean we could go into any order here, but
Speaker 2: I Sarah, I'll ask you about yours. So you had
Speaker 2: a couple work goals for both clinical work and creative work,
Speaker 2: so maybe you can share what happened.
Speaker 1: And what hasn't.
Speaker 3: Okay, So we will start with a clinical work category,
Speaker 3: and my goal was to keep working on my efficiency
Speaker 3: of checkout, meaning like the work I do kind of
Speaker 3: between when I'm done with the patient and when they
Speaker 3: leave the office to make sure they have everything they need.
Speaker 3: And I've kind of come like a really long way
Speaker 3: where I used to like run around printing everything out.
Speaker 3: Then I moved to this checkout sheet and then I'm like,
Speaker 3: you know what, I can just train the front desk.
Speaker 3: I'm going to like work on the people that can
Speaker 3: just do this without me having to micromanage, and that's
Speaker 3: actually worked pretty well. I also tend to kind of
Speaker 3: say to my patient as they're walking from there to
Speaker 3: the front desk, I'm like, your three things are to
Speaker 3: get your labs, make sure you get your printed instructions,
Speaker 3: and make your appointment. Like I'll say, I'll kind of
Speaker 3: reinforce and then I am done, Like I don't run
Speaker 3: around collecting things. So I will say that's been really
Speaker 3: helpful and definitely has saved time, and thus far, it
Speaker 3: has not to my knowledge, resulted in any like bad
Speaker 3: communication or missed instructions. I had a goal to provide
Speaker 3: some kind of seasonal fun for our staff. And I
Speaker 3: did get cookies from Crumble for Valentine's and I passed
Speaker 3: them around. That was really fun. So I'm going to
Speaker 3: do something for summer, maybe some kind of like little
Speaker 3: sunscreen sample, I don't know something, and definitely some kind
Speaker 3: of school supply for fall, like I'm going to walk
Speaker 3: around with like fun pens. And then our Friday lunch
Speaker 3: tradition is going full swing, and I think it really
Speaker 3: does help to build communities. So I mean, not everybody
Speaker 3: comes every time, but I at least kind of do
Speaker 3: a little bit of socializing most Fridays with colleagues at lunch.
Speaker 3: So that's my clinical side. And then on the creative
Speaker 3: slash business side, my goals were to successfully run Planning
Speaker 3: by season, and I will say, yes, we are three
Speaker 3: out of five sessions in and I feel like they're
Speaker 3: going well. They're nicely attended, people participate, and I'm finding
Speaker 3: out one of the most fun programs to run, Like,
Speaker 3: so yeah, I really like it. Write my book proposal
Speaker 3: during the summer, so I went back to my yearly
Speaker 3: goals and I was kind of beating myself up for
Speaker 3: not making progress on this, but I didn't actually notice it.
Speaker 3: When I wrote in the annual list it said during
Speaker 3: the summer, so I'm not actually behind you signed it
Speaker 3: a time I did, and I think there was a
Speaker 3: reason for that, and I'm kind of happy about it.
Speaker 3: So I have made no progress. But now it's the
Speaker 3: summer and now I have some time blocked off and
Speaker 3: I'm getting started and kind of having a less perfectionistic
Speaker 3: thing about it, like just get something down and then
Speaker 3: you can play with it and that's fine. And so yeah,
Speaker 3: that's definitely in progress. I would not be able to
Speaker 3: give myself any credit for doing it, but I wasn't
Speaker 3: planning on it yet. I had a goal to pitch
Speaker 3: two podcasts per month. Totally fell off the wagon on that.
Speaker 3: I think I probably did it a couple months, but
Speaker 3: then I forgot. I mean, it sucks to get rejections,
Speaker 3: but also too is probably not enough because if you're
Speaker 3: aiming high, you're going to get more rejections then you
Speaker 3: get acceptances. And so if I'm going to do that
Speaker 3: in any meaningful way, there probably needs to be a.
Speaker 1: Higher number there. So I have to rethink about that.
Speaker 3: I had a goal to do best laid plans Live
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, and that is happening, and Laura is
Speaker 3: co hosting, and we're sold out and it's going to
Speaker 3: be awesome, and we're actually about to get into some
Speaker 3: of the kind of nitty gritty planning details coming up.
Speaker 1: But I feel like I'm on track with that.
Speaker 3: And then finally plan content creation schedule in advance and
Speaker 3: prioritize to reduce deadline stress and overload. Sometimes I'm really
Speaker 3: good with this, and sometimes I'm really not. I still
Speaker 3: struggle around like vacations and call weeks. I think I'm
Speaker 3: more aware of that struggle and sort of prepare myself
Speaker 3: for it better. And I think some of my show
Speaker 3: notes and stuff have been done more in advance.
Speaker 1: But then again, these.
Speaker 3: Were done like yesterday. As I said to Laura, I
Speaker 3: thought we were recording like a week from now. So
Speaker 3: Laura likes a little bit even more buffer than I do,
Speaker 3: which is actually good and probably one of the reasons
Speaker 3: we have not missed a week yet. So I will
Speaker 3: say that one is in progress. I'd give myself like
Speaker 3: a C plus. Yeah, seven years and every Tuesday, and
Speaker 3: there's a process for that, and it's why I'm like, no, no, no, Sarah,
Speaker 3: we will not be recording on this date in June.
Speaker 3: We'll be recording a week earlier. So something goes wrong,
Speaker 3: which you know is partly just hard one experience. We've
Speaker 3: had many things go wrong. We've had to.
Speaker 2: Toss a number of episodes, or sometimes we book a
Speaker 2: guest who then can't make it, or you know, topics
Speaker 2: have kind of been passed by by events, and you know, but.
Speaker 3: The best is when we recorded Dead Air. That was
Speaker 3: our dead Air, was certainly in our podcasting career. The
Speaker 3: Dead Air did not make it out into the distribution channels.
Speaker 3: Don't worry, but we did in fact record about forty
Speaker 3: minutes of dead Air, so that obviously had to be
Speaker 3: redone as well.
Speaker 1: All right, so your work goals, let's hear it. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean I have.
Speaker 2: A goal to finish the book proposal for my next book,
Speaker 2: my next time management book, and sell it and start
Speaker 2: working on it. And I did in fact sell it,
Speaker 2: and in a kind of cool way, we went out
Speaker 2: broadly to a lot of different publishers.
Speaker 1: I had a lot of meetings with me.
Speaker 2: We wound up getting multiple bits, which was cool, and
Speaker 2: I am now doing a two books.
Speaker 1: My next two books with Norton, which is very exciting.
Speaker 2: So Golden Hours is well, that's the second one that'll
Speaker 2: be out in like twenty twenty seven, and Big Time
Speaker 2: is the next one, which will be out in early
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, so working on both of them. It's
Speaker 2: really exciting to start a new book project. I love
Speaker 2: writing books. I don't know how much people want to
Speaker 2: read books anymore in the modern world, but there's always
Speaker 2: some people who do, and hopefully I will find more
Speaker 2: of those people by twenty twenty six and twenty twenty
Speaker 2: seven and create books that I'd like to read and
Speaker 2: find helpful.
Speaker 1: Hopefully everyone else will too.
Speaker 3: I am very excited for both of those topics, both
Speaker 3: of those titles, and.
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of our listeners are too. So
Speaker 1: we're excited. We'll stay tuned, we'll be hearing more about that.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven, I wanted to
Speaker 2: launch vander Hacks, and at the time we recorded our
Speaker 2: Goals episode, I had not really done that yet, but
Speaker 2: I was sort of about too. And this for anyone
Speaker 2: who is listening and as curious, is an every weekday
Speaker 2: morning newsletter through substack and if you want to subscribe.
Speaker 2: It's just called vander Hacks and it's my tips on
Speaker 2: making life better, taking your day from great to awesome.
Speaker 1: There are four.
Speaker 2: Free posts a week, so feel free to just go
Speaker 2: ahead and sign on up if you want that. And
Speaker 2: then there is one post that is behind a paywall
Speaker 2: each week, so if you would like to have that
Speaker 2: as well, you're welcome to get a paid subscription.
Speaker 1: I would appreciate that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I've been doing it first six plus months
Speaker 2: now and it's been good. It's you know, I'm playing
Speaker 2: around with it, errementing with what makes a good post.
Speaker 2: But it's just one more place that I can connect
Speaker 2: with people and get some of my ideas out there,
Speaker 2: and so that's been fun.
Speaker 3: I like today's post. It was like how to create
Speaker 3: a kit to stay organized? I love that.
Speaker 2: Yes, so lots of ideas there. I had a goal
Speaker 2: to speak internationally and that has not happened yet, and
Speaker 2: again we put constraints on it in the goal episode.
Speaker 2: It's not like can I find some book club in
Speaker 2: the UK that would like me to come speak to
Speaker 2: them about it? I mean, as part of my speaking
Speaker 2: business to be hired through my normal channels. With my
Speaker 2: normal fees to come speak internationally and ideally outside I
Speaker 2: mean not Canada, Mexico, I've done those places. I'm talking
Speaker 2: sort of broader internationals. But we'll keep working on it.
Speaker 2: So somebody listening to this and has a business somewhere
Speaker 2: else in the world that is looking for time management speakers,
Speaker 2: feel free to reach out and we will connect. And
Speaker 2: then I was also managing the best of both worlds
Speaker 2: transition over to iHeartMedia.
Speaker 1: That was just happening.
Speaker 2: We were trying to figure out the timeline of that
Speaker 2: when we recorded our Goals episode toward the end of
Speaker 2: the year.
Speaker 1: It happened on January first.
Speaker 2: We can tell from our numbers that we have a
Speaker 2: few new listeners, so welcome to everyone who found us
Speaker 2: through the various iHeartMedia ads and through just.
Speaker 1: Seeing it on their app.
Speaker 2: We're glad to have you, so that will be something
Speaker 2: we're continuing to enjoy and use our new home to
Speaker 2: find new audience members and continue building this podcast.
Speaker 3: And I'm impressed that technically the transition went well, Like
Speaker 3: I don't think our feed got lost.
Speaker 1: I don't think it looked different or anything like that.
Speaker 3: So if you didn't notice that that's also great, totally cool.
Speaker 1: Yes, bonus woo.
Speaker 2: All right, well, we're going to take a short ad
Speaker 2: break and we'll be back talking with more of our
Speaker 2: goals for the year.
Speaker 1: How they are going. Well, we are back doing our
Speaker 1: mid year goal check.
Speaker 2: In the next category, we just did career of various
Speaker 2: sorts of work that both of us do. Our next
Speaker 2: category is relationships and family goals as well. So, Sarah,
Speaker 2: you had some goals that you set for the year.
Speaker 1: How are those going?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, going through my list, I had date night
Speaker 3: one to two times a month. I think it's been
Speaker 3: more on the one time, but I feel like we've
Speaker 3: had some nice, memorable date nights as the year has
Speaker 3: gone on, so I'd give myself credit for that. I
Speaker 3: wanted to do two getaways with me and Josh this year.
Speaker 3: We didn't do two last year, and I felt it
Speaker 3: wasn't enough, so I'm happy to say we're on track.
Speaker 3: We went to Michigan together. I mean, we ran a
Speaker 3: marathon while we were there, but it was also a
Speaker 3: couples getaway and it was really fun. I wanted to
Speaker 3: have some kid one on one time monthly. So I
Speaker 3: don't know if I've met monthly, but I've done two
Speaker 3: rounds of just doing dinner with each kid solo. I
Speaker 3: just put it on the calendar. I let them pick
Speaker 3: the place. I keep it really low key, our nanny stays.
Speaker 3: If my husband's not home. I try to do it
Speaker 3: on tonight. We don't have a lot of late sports
Speaker 3: and stuff, and they love it. They've already asked when
Speaker 3: we're going to do it again. So I think this
Speaker 3: is probably going to replace full on mommy days for
Speaker 3: this summer, just because I'm just not sure that's as realistic.
Speaker 1: I mean, I could probably do it.
Speaker 3: We'll see, but certainly the dinners are going to stay
Speaker 3: because they are a nice way to get some one
Speaker 3: on one time and with a little bit of structure
Speaker 3: family meetings. I wanted to work on our family meeting game.
Speaker 3: I feel like the kids are old enough to just
Speaker 3: do a better prep at the start of the week,
Speaker 3: and then even at the start of the season, we
Speaker 3: do it informally. We have these conversations. They're kind of
Speaker 3: like usually I'm like filling out the board as we're
Speaker 3: cleaning up Sunday dinner. But I still want to make
Speaker 3: them more of a like fun event, so I would
Speaker 3: say that one is still in progress and kind of
Speaker 3: going to work on it over the summer. I wanted
Speaker 3: to cultivate more family reading. This has gone like in
Speaker 3: ways I didn't expect. So Cameron is now like the
Speaker 3: reader of the family, which I did not see coming,
Speaker 3: and I kind of love it. He will read whatever
Speaker 3: it used to be just graphic novels. Now he was
Speaker 3: branched onto like anything, especially if there's kind of sci
Speaker 3: fi element or a sports element, He's into it. Annabel
Speaker 3: will read with the right book, and I feel like
Speaker 3: there are times at night when all of us are
Speaker 3: reading and I love that. But Genevieve cannot read on
Speaker 3: her own yet, so that has been the imagery that
Speaker 3: I had is just not quite there. I'm trying to
Speaker 3: think about how I can get her set up like
Speaker 3: with an audiobook during some of these times, but work
Speaker 3: in progress and may fit a little bit more naturally
Speaker 3: once she can actually read like on her own fluently,
Speaker 3: not just sounding out words declutter the house.
Speaker 1: F Nope, I'm reading a book about it. I mean
Speaker 1: that you're reading a book about it. That's great.
Speaker 2: It's like taking the goal before and adding it into
Speaker 2: this one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to talk about like self goals, and
Speaker 3: I think I just didn't have the physical energy to
Speaker 3: declutter my house the last few month. So it is
Speaker 3: what it is. I still want to do it. I'm
Speaker 3: not ready to outsource it. I know everyone keeps saying
Speaker 3: that and saying it, but it's not happening right now.
Speaker 3: And then finally I have really really positive news because
Speaker 3: I have gotten I would say any topic, like a
Speaker 3: lot of listener feedback on this. People are like actually,
Speaker 3: people are lovely. They tell me stories as to why
Speaker 3: this is very important, a lot of times very personal stories.
Speaker 1: But estate planning, we had.
Speaker 3: That as a goal, and our drafts are done, like
Speaker 3: Lauryers just said it, we need to go to their
Speaker 3: office to sign everything or do something complicated with notaries,
Speaker 3: so we'll probably just go to their office because it's
Speaker 3: not that far away. And we have to do a
Speaker 3: couple of like ill defined things with our bank accounts
Speaker 3: that I need to get clarity on. But we're mostly done.
Speaker 3: And that's super exciting because that had been on my
Speaker 3: list for a very very long time. So I'm gonna
Speaker 3: give myself credit for that one. And I think the
Speaker 3: outlook for being completely done with it by the end
Speaker 3: of the year is very good.
Speaker 1: So yay, yay, Well that's good.
Speaker 2: I mean, you had a list of long term projects
Speaker 2: and that was certainly one of them, and and I
Speaker 2: know it's been on the list many years, and so
Speaker 2: the fact that significant progress has happened is you know,
Speaker 2: testament to sometimes you have to keep trying with goals
Speaker 2: before they actually happen. Yeah, my relationship and family goals.
Speaker 2: I specifically wanted to do time with my big kids.
Speaker 2: So my older kids are seventeen, fourteen, and twelve. Sort
Speaker 2: of the nature of having younger kids, having a nine
Speaker 2: year old and four year old is they can monopolize
Speaker 2: your time and attention just by being needier. And so
Speaker 2: the older kids can kind of drift off to their
Speaker 2: rooms and you don't see them except for meals, and
Speaker 2: I don't know, sometimes they managed to avoid that even
Speaker 2: if you so it's harder to spend time with older kids.
Speaker 2: So we've had some extra childcare for Henry, for instance,
Speaker 2: so we can have time with the older kids to
Speaker 2: do things. But I've actually thought up taking some really
Speaker 2: cool trips with the older kids. So I went to
Speaker 2: Space with my two older boys over spring break, and
Speaker 2: as part of that got some time with each of them,
Speaker 2: you know, I think about doing like a cooking class
Speaker 2: with Sam, for instance, and chatting with Jasper at various points.
Speaker 2: I then took Ruth to Paris in May, and we
Speaker 2: had a great time there and spent a lot of
Speaker 2: time with each other and really enjoyed that. And when
Speaker 2: this airs, I will have taken another short trip with Jasper,
Speaker 2: sort of figuring out he had asked for a trip
Speaker 2: for Christmas, and so that will have happened by the
Speaker 2: time this aired. Sam asked for a diving trip and
Speaker 2: he and Michael took that together. So getting parental time
Speaker 2: with the older kids doesn't always have to be me.
Speaker 2: I certainly enjoy it when it can be me, but
Speaker 2: it's also good to have my husband do some of
Speaker 2: this too.
Speaker 1: But it's also just.
Speaker 2: Like the mindset of if I am in the kitchen
Speaker 2: and I am about to leave and some of my
Speaker 2: older kids are there and they are kind of talking
Speaker 2: with me, I don't have to leave, like I don't
Speaker 2: have to go do whatever it was I was about
Speaker 2: to do, probably for another few minutes, so just linger
Speaker 2: and have the conversation and see what else is going on,
Speaker 2: and I think it's just trying to do that as
Speaker 2: much as possible and prioritize it.
Speaker 1: I also wanted.
Speaker 2: To see friends, like spend time with friends, and recognize
Speaker 2: that I could travel if I needed to to make
Speaker 2: this happen.
Speaker 1: I had a.
Speaker 2: Fun trip in early April to New York City with
Speaker 2: a couple of people. We went to the Botanical Garden
Speaker 2: and went to a museum. The Paris trip was with
Speaker 2: some friends from college, so I got to see them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just just.
Speaker 2: Good to connect with people. I was seeing Sarah in
Speaker 2: March in Florida, and she'll be in Philadelphia at some
Speaker 2: point this so that's great. And just been doing more
Speaker 2: regular runs and walks with local friends. I had a
Speaker 2: small dinner party in April that was also a lot
Speaker 2: of fun.
Speaker 1: I hadn't really done that since moving here, so glad
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 2: As for Michael and my twentieth wedding anniversary, nothing has
Speaker 2: been planned.
Speaker 1: And is it soon?
Speaker 2: It's in September, Okay, September fourth. We got married September fourth,
Speaker 2: two thousand and four, so this will be twenty years.
Speaker 2: So maybe we'll try to do something small that first,
Speaker 2: like not Labor Day weekend, but the next weekend in September.
Speaker 1: Maybe we can do something then, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean I've planned a lot of elaborate family stuff,
Speaker 2: and I just get like, I don't know. It's the
Speaker 2: thing that probably doesn't get planned, but maybe somebody else
Speaker 2: will plan it.
Speaker 1: Surprise.
Speaker 3: Mepul se, Well, be exciting. I hope you do something.
Speaker 3: Twenty is big, that's exciting. We have joshed his fiftieth birthday,
Speaker 3: so kind of similar, like, got to do something I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we recently got Michael and I went into
Speaker 2: New York for the celebrate his brother's fiftieth birthday.
Speaker 1: And Michael went in for two nights. I went in
Speaker 1: for one.
Speaker 2: We saw a show, we went out to dinner, hung
Speaker 2: out with his all his siblings and some of their
Speaker 2: spouses and his mom and so, yeah, it was a
Speaker 2: fun trip. So that could be the kind of thing
Speaker 2: one could do for a fiftieth birthday.
Speaker 1: Awesome.
Speaker 3: So you would say your relationships category is going mostly
Speaker 3: pretty good and you need to figure out the anniversary.
Speaker 1: Well I need to figure Yeah, I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: that guy. I don't have a grade for it.
Speaker 2: I mean, because it's all long ongoing stuff, right, Like
Speaker 2: every day it's an opportunity to at least think about
Speaker 2: how I would spend time with the big kids. So
Speaker 2: just continuing to remind myself to have that mindset for
Speaker 2: the rest of the year.
Speaker 1: Awesome.
Speaker 3: All right, well we have our self category and fitness category.
Speaker 3: I know you're going to talk about your year long projects,
Speaker 3: so let's hear about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So my goal for the year was to listen
Speaker 1: to all the works of Bach.
Speaker 2: And this is because I've been doing a year long
Speaker 2: project every year for the past few years. So one
Speaker 2: year I read all the works of Shakespeare, you know,
Speaker 2: another year I read all the works of Jane Austen.
Speaker 2: So this year I am listening to all the works
Speaker 2: of Bach. I am a big Bach fan, and this
Speaker 2: has been quite doable. I am, in fact about halfway
Speaker 2: through when this is airing. I've created a calendar so
Speaker 2: for anyone who follows Bach, there's a catalog of BWV
Speaker 2: numbers representing there are one thousand and eighty works of
Speaker 2: the original BWV.
Speaker 1: And then people find more, or they realize ones that.
Speaker 3: Were in the original or not, or there's works that
Speaker 3: are possibly attributed to him or not.
Speaker 1: There's like another one hundred.
Speaker 2: Works that will probably get through in the course of
Speaker 2: the year as well, But anyway, I'm on track. I've
Speaker 2: been sharing the calendar with a couple of other people
Speaker 2: who are doing this project with me, which is awesome,
Speaker 2: And yeah, every day I just listen to a couple
Speaker 2: of them. Usually most days it's three or four of
Speaker 2: the BWV. I decided to start with a cantata and
Speaker 2: then starting in the middle of the BWV. So the
Speaker 2: cantatas are the first two hundred and twenty or so,
Speaker 2: and they're all about twenty minutes. So if you are
Speaker 2: only working through chronologically, you'd just be listening to all
Speaker 2: cantatas all the time for the first few months. So
Speaker 2: we split it up and started with the organ works,
Speaker 2: which are like five twenty five. So you do BWV
Speaker 2: one and BWV five twenty five on January first and
Speaker 2: so on. And yeah, about thirty to forty minutes of
Speaker 2: listening a day. I do it in the car a
Speaker 2: lot of the time, or while I'm doing sort of
Speaker 2: low key work answering emails or doing something that doesn't
Speaker 2: require a whole lot of thinking. I can have it
Speaker 2: on in the back and it's awesome.
Speaker 3: Do you feel like you now could hear Bach and
Speaker 3: be like, oh, that sounds like it's from like this era,
Speaker 3: Like I don't know.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's been some really cool historical matchups. He
Speaker 2: was very prolific in the year seventeen twenty four. Curiously enough,
Speaker 2: a lot of the kantatas are from then, and so
Speaker 2: it's fun to sort of match them up. I didn't
Speaker 2: match them up. That would have been a great way
Speaker 2: to do this calendar, but whatever. Sometimes it happens and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that was the kantata for two weeks
Speaker 2: after Easter, and we're shortly after Easter, and so you
Speaker 2: sort of have this connection with Bach three hundred years
Speaker 2: ago doing this music in Leipzig and elsewhere. I can
Speaker 2: definitely see themes. I've been to a couple of Bach concerts.
Speaker 2: I went to one that had works from all over
Speaker 2: the bwv's so different things like a two harpsichord thing,
Speaker 2: a cantata. I went to an all kantata performance in
Speaker 2: downtown Philly with a small chamber group that was doing that,
Speaker 2: and you definitely start to hear his themes and you
Speaker 2: know his structure, and then I went to the Backchoir
Speaker 2: of Bethlehem annually does the B Minor Mass, which is
Speaker 2: of course the ultimate Bach work that he composed not
Speaker 2: long before his death. And having heard so many of
Speaker 2: the cantatas, now I know when I'm hearing those cantatas
Speaker 2: and I'm hearing a theme that was then in the
Speaker 2: B Minor Mass, I know he was experimenting with in
Speaker 2: the cantatas and then he pulled it into the B
Speaker 2: Minor Mass because it's something he just liked, and so
Speaker 2: then he would use it again for that great work
Speaker 2: toward the end of his life.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's been awesome. That's cool.
Speaker 3: I like the idea of becoming like a more nuanced
Speaker 3: expert or like to like understand things at a level
Speaker 3: that you know, if I heard Bach, I would just
Speaker 3: be like, oh that sounds Baroke and you can say
Speaker 3: so much more.
Speaker 1: About Nako and work. So cool, all right, What else
Speaker 1: was on your personal list? Oh?
Speaker 2: Gosh, Well, I wanted to do more strength training. It
Speaker 2: was going to be the year of Bach and my back.
Speaker 2: I was trying to work on my back, and then
Speaker 2: long time listeners know I had a rather huge setback
Speaker 2: in January where had like shooting nerve pain down my
Speaker 2: legs from some back issue and I couldn't walk for
Speaker 2: over a week. Wound up on steroids and painkillers and
Speaker 2: doing physical therapy and such, and I'm aware of it.
Speaker 2: Still there's nothing really that can be done. I mean,
Speaker 2: I just I do need to keep strengthening my back
Speaker 2: and my abs and I live with it. But the
Speaker 2: good news is it doesn't keep me from living life.
Speaker 2: Like I stood at the Taylor Swift concert for five
Speaker 2: hours with my horrible back. I walked all over Disney
Speaker 2: World with my horrible back.
Speaker 1: You know, you live, you have to live life. And
Speaker 1: I guess I have a reasonable pain tolerance and maybe
Speaker 1: it will improve.
Speaker 3: I mean, you don't have to assume this is like
Speaker 3: where it's going to be forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but partly from my own psychologic like not. I
Speaker 2: need to set my expectations low.
Speaker 3: Got it right, Like I need to learn how to
Speaker 3: live with this because it might. It might, And I
Speaker 3: don't want to feel like my life is over if
Speaker 3: I have back pain, because it's not like I can
Speaker 3: deal with it.
Speaker 2: I will live with it. But you know, obviously it'd
Speaker 2: be great if it would have improve So I'd have
Speaker 2: to hold those two thoughts in mind that I can
Speaker 2: live my life with it. I can also do things
Speaker 2: that maybe over time will improve it, or maybe just
Speaker 2: on my own, my body will start to heal itself.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's been fun going through the world
Speaker 2: of specialist doctors and MRIs and all that great stuff
Speaker 2: that I never would have experienced.
Speaker 3: Otherwise, you definitely would not have experienced it because that
Speaker 3: is not your favorite genre.
Speaker 2: No, and I would like to stay as much away
Speaker 2: from it as possible in the future. But I will
Speaker 2: do more strength training because I I've been doing more
Speaker 2: of that. I kept working out with my trainer and
Speaker 2: now I've decided I put it on my to do list.
Speaker 2: And then two other times a week I do at
Speaker 2: least ten minutes of the stuff that he gave me
Speaker 2: during our time together. And then the last thing with
Speaker 2: self is that I'm doing my sonnets. I wrote two
Speaker 2: lines in a sonnet every day in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: so ended the year with fifty two sonnets because each
Speaker 2: one is fourteen lines, so you can write one a
Speaker 2: week at that pace. And I found it was actually
Speaker 2: a really good practice for me, and I liked some
Speaker 2: of the poems I was creating by the end, and
Speaker 2: so I decided to keep going with it.
Speaker 1: So I now I have what like seventy eight.
Speaker 2: I guess that's a fifty two plus twenty six seventy
Speaker 2: eight poems. By the end of the year, I'll have
Speaker 2: one hundred and four more or less, maybe one hundred
Speaker 2: and five, depending on how the weeks work.
Speaker 1: And yeah, awesome, And sometimes you publish them on your blog.
Speaker 1: I do, so if you want to see them, come
Speaker 1: check them out.
Speaker 2: We're going to take one more quick ad break and
Speaker 2: we'll be back to hear about Sarah's amazing personal accomplishments
Speaker 2: this year. All right, Well, we are back doing our
Speaker 2: mid year goal check in. So, Sarah, you had some
Speaker 2: big personal goals that you kind of knocked out of
Speaker 2: the park, so let's hear about that.
Speaker 3: Yes, the first goal on my personal list was to
Speaker 3: train to try to qualify for the Boston Marathon, and
Speaker 3: I did that last month. Yay, it was awesome. I
Speaker 3: mean I had definitely had this on my like one
Speaker 3: hundred dreams lifeless for almost two decades at this point.
Speaker 3: It's been something I've wanted to do not for you know,
Speaker 3: it's one of those things like I'm not curing anything,
Speaker 3: I'm not achieving anything that's necessarily adding to the world's canon.
Speaker 3: But I just wanted to do it for me to
Speaker 3: like see if I could work towards something and achieve it.
Speaker 3: And it was just the right level of hard that
Speaker 3: it just took a lot and was really.
Speaker 1: Really gratifying to make it come true. So I did
Speaker 1: continue to work with my coach.
Speaker 3: I think I don't know if I could have done
Speaker 3: this with it because I really needed the guidance to
Speaker 3: achieve the level of my ledge that I did, and
Speaker 3: my husband and I actually fun fact, so the way
Speaker 3: Boston works is you have to qualify, but then you
Speaker 3: also have to get a certain amount under the qualifying
Speaker 3: time to actually run the race. Most years, and my
Speaker 3: time ended up being three hours and thirty five minutes
Speaker 3: and one second, just like an eight to twelve pace,
Speaker 3: which is four minutes and fifty nine seconds below the cutoff.
Speaker 3: And then for him, he ran like three nineteen fifty one,
Speaker 3: which ended up being five minutes and nine seconds below
Speaker 3: the cutoff.
Speaker 1: So the fun part about that.
Speaker 3: Is that like unless the cutoff were to fall at
Speaker 3: like five minutes and five seconds, which it could, but
Speaker 3: like probably what we would either both make it or not.
Speaker 3: And so that was actually kind of like a really
Speaker 3: sweet ending for us to both like kind of have
Speaker 3: the same awesome result. The funny part is that it
Speaker 3: took me about twice as much work as it took him.
Speaker 3: But you know, hey, that means you can compensate for
Speaker 3: lack of talent by trying hard.
Speaker 2: Because what was in his marathon time? I was like
Speaker 2: three nineteen or something.
Speaker 1: Was that?
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, but that part, I mean, men are
Speaker 3: going to be expected to run faster than women on average,
Speaker 3: but the cutoff for him is faster than me. So
Speaker 3: like for a forty nine year old man, I think
Speaker 3: the cutoff was like three twenty five, Yeah, through twenty five,
Speaker 3: and he ran just under three twenty and mine was
Speaker 3: three forty and I ran just over three thirty five. Well,
Speaker 3: it's so funny because the BQ time is then not
Speaker 3: really the BQ time. It's like the the official BQ time,
Speaker 3: but then not. Yeah, historically it used to be, and
Speaker 3: then they started to have to add cutoffs in there.
Speaker 3: And then the other funny part is that Queen of
Speaker 3: All planners. I had booked a Disney cruise that was
Speaker 3: during twenty twenty five Boston Marathon already. Not only did
Speaker 3: I book this, but I booked it like with friends,
Speaker 3: so I actually and I knew this going in. So
Speaker 3: I am not actually planning on submitting our times for
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, but I feel really really confident that
Speaker 3: it will work out for twenty twenty six. Well, can
Speaker 3: you use your time from this year? You can't, so
Speaker 3: you're gonna have to do it again. Yes, but I
Speaker 3: get ten more minutes.
Speaker 2: So oh well, because when you're forty five, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: that makes sense. Well wow, I mean that seems like
Speaker 2: you should be able to do that.
Speaker 3: Yes, I feel really confident at this time. I mean,
Speaker 3: obviously anything could happen. It can happen, and I really
Speaker 3: feel like I achieved my aim. My aim was to qualify.
Speaker 3: My ame was not actually specifically to run. I wanted
Speaker 3: to meet that BEKU standard and now I can say
Speaker 3: I did so yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I also had on my personal that was the biggest thing,
Speaker 3: and it was the most time consuming thing. So everything
Speaker 3: else you'll hear. But I wanted to go to a
Speaker 3: yoga class and that did not happen yet, probably because
Speaker 3: I was too busy marathon training, So that's fine, that's
Speaker 3: going to be for later. I wanted to read every
Speaker 3: day and record the pages read, and I kind of did.
Speaker 3: I kept it on this little calendar. In May, I
Speaker 3: slacked off, but I was still writing it all my
Speaker 3: daily planner. So there's something cool for me about being like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I got through thirty pages or I read one hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty pages because I finished the book. And it
Speaker 3: does help me to know when it's timed. I don't
Speaker 3: abandon books often, but I will once in a while,
Speaker 3: and if I'm like, oh my god, I'm making zero progress,
Speaker 3: it's been like ten days, I've read three pages, like
Speaker 3: it's time, and I will let something go. So that
Speaker 3: has been helpful. I didn't have any goal about like
Speaker 3: number of books to get through. I've done that in
Speaker 3: the past, but I didn't this year, and I'm kind
Speaker 3: of glad. I prefer it this way. I almost always
Speaker 3: read the same number of books anyway, like right around
Speaker 3: fifty and I think I'm it as we're recording this,
Speaker 3: like low twenties and it's not the end of June yet,
Speaker 3: so I'm exactly on track for myself. I wanted to
Speaker 3: improve my wardrobe, the only wardrobe improve with my running wardrobe.
Speaker 3: I have a complete race day which looks great now
Speaker 3: I have really pricey race shoes. But the thing is,
Speaker 3: you know, we have this allowance system, and I don't
Speaker 3: have the money to buy like two hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: dollars shoes multiple players and then also upgrade my actual clothing.
Speaker 3: So that was the choice I made, and I'm fine.
Speaker 3: I wanted to try to get regular manny petties and
Speaker 3: massage when I can, and I've gotten some. I've gotten enough.
Speaker 3: I feel like, I would say enough for me to
Speaker 3: use screens thoughtfully, okay, fair good, sometimes not as good
Speaker 3: to other times.
Speaker 1: To write daily in my experience journal.
Speaker 3: So I had this really cute little planner that I
Speaker 3: was going to write an experience every day, and I
Speaker 3: did for about five months, and I would be still
Speaker 3: doing it except that I also have this five year journal,
Speaker 3: and I just was finding day after day that I
Speaker 3: was like writing the same thing in both of them.
Speaker 3: And the five year journal is awesome, Like it is
Speaker 3: so cool. I love looking at it right now and
Speaker 3: has four years filled out, and like it's such a
Speaker 3: keepsake and I know I'm going to want to keep it,
Speaker 3: and I wasn't planning on keeping the other ones, so
Speaker 3: I was like, well, I don't really need both, so
Speaker 3: I'm abandoning that.
Speaker 1: I'm crossing it off my list.
Speaker 3: I'm just going to use my five year journal as
Speaker 3: I have been and make sure to try to include
Speaker 3: an experience every day and I will achieve the same aim.
Speaker 1: And then finally, I just wanted to quote.
Speaker 3: Say yes and save our experiences, and I think I've
Speaker 3: done pretty well with that so far. I have a
Speaker 3: lot of experiences. I'm also excited about to come this year.
Speaker 3: But we've had some really fun ones, from travel to
Speaker 3: skiing to seeing some concerts and things like that. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: And then I say both of us have hit a
Speaker 3: major goal that we had stepped the year with this
Speaker 3: check in. I was like, well, it's our December episode.
Speaker 1: Gonna be really boring. But I guess more stuff will
Speaker 1: either happen.
Speaker 2: Or not happen in the course of the year and
Speaker 2: we can check in on that, you know, if we've
Speaker 2: stuck with the longer term ones and how that's gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I still have enough on here that I mean, people
Speaker 3: are going to want to know if I decluttered my house.
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true, just kidding. And if you've written
Speaker 1: your book proposal.
Speaker 3: Exactly, and I'm sure, I don't know, maybe you'll have
Speaker 3: to come up with some other big goal.
Speaker 2: Well, there are things, I mean, there's certainly things I'm
Speaker 2: gonna have to happen and the rest of the year.
Speaker 2: But I probably didn't set quite as many goals as
Speaker 2: you did because I'm wary of setting ones that I'm
Speaker 2: not going to hit, and I put a few that
Speaker 2: were uncertain, and so it's like, you know, put all
Speaker 2: your effort into the uncertain ones.
Speaker 3: Versus I don't know. I guess it's a different mindset
Speaker 3: about it. Do you feel like you achieved anything like
Speaker 3: serendif it is, or anything that wasn't on your list
Speaker 3: that you're excited about.
Speaker 1: I don't know that there was.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, like coming back from a back injury
Speaker 2: was a big thing that had to happen. This is
Speaker 2: a big spring and took time and a lot of
Speaker 2: sort of adjustment in life and how I do stuff.
Speaker 2: But people listening to this, I still cannot empty the
Speaker 2: dishwasher without like pain, and like I have to do
Speaker 2: it in a certain way.
Speaker 1: Anyway, long story, we don't need to get into this,
Speaker 1: so still in progress. You came back in progress.
Speaker 2: So it's more like I didn't have a goal to
Speaker 2: like try to live my life without daily pain, but
Speaker 2: that is kind of a goal that will have to
Speaker 2: be worked on. But you had a big goal with
Speaker 2: like your kids schooling, right, I mean.
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, Like it wasn't a goal just like you said,
Speaker 3: Like it certainly wasn't when I set out to do
Speaker 3: all this stuff.
Speaker 1: I wasn't like.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to pull out one contract and help
Speaker 3: a kid apply to schools and like start all over again.
Speaker 1: But we ended up doing that and it.
Speaker 3: Worked itself out, and I'm super happy, and I feel
Speaker 3: like it did take a ton of my bandwidth during
Speaker 3: the spring, and so I want to give myself credit
Speaker 3: for that because it was just an undertaking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, applying to schools is always challenging, and that's something
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not my project, it's one of my
Speaker 2: children's projects. But in the second half of this year,
Speaker 2: Jasper is going to be doing all of his college applications.
Speaker 2: I mean some Arede earlier, but a lot of them
Speaker 2: are due January first, which means that that is going
Speaker 2: to be a twenty twenty four project for him, again,
Speaker 2: not for me, but I will be assisting him with
Speaker 2: making sure it happens and helping him do as best
Speaker 2: as he can on it. And so yeah, that's I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess that'll be something. But that's not like an
Speaker 2: outcome goal for me. The goal is that I hope
Speaker 2: he feels happy with how it's going, that it's a
Speaker 2: non stressful part of family life. I don't have any
Speaker 2: particular goal about where he would get in because that's
Speaker 2: not me.
Speaker 1: It's not my life.
Speaker 3: Your goal could be like support him peacefully the application season. Exactly, Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 3: that is the personal goal that's actually big.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure, yeah, that's gonna take a lot.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: So Sarah, the question for this week is related to goals,
Speaker 2: which you get this a lot, like where do you
Speaker 2: actually keep your goals and all your beautiful and amazing
Speaker 2: paper products which is the official goal keeping place.
Speaker 3: Well, unfortunately we're not on video, but I am holding
Speaker 3: this up. So I have this leather discbound planner that
Speaker 3: I actually got from cloth and paper. They send it
Speaker 3: to me, and I was kind of like, what am
Speaker 3: I going to do with this? I don't use a
Speaker 3: lot of diskbound in my normal planning, but I was like,
Speaker 3: this might be really nice to keep, like kind of
Speaker 3: like things I just want to file and have handy,
Speaker 3: and their stuff happens to be like incredibly aesthetically pleasing,
Speaker 3: like their paper is beautiful. And so I've been using
Speaker 3: this all year and it's awesome, like we can hear
Speaker 3: the sound effects to be turning the pages. But I
Speaker 3: have like all my PTO in here, and one of
Speaker 3: the first things in here is my annual goals from
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, and every time I seasonally set out
Speaker 3: to create my goals for the season, I know exactly
Speaker 3: where to find that annual goals list. I have taken
Speaker 3: pictures of that and put it in Apple Notes in
Speaker 3: case I ever want to refer to it on the go.
Speaker 3: So it's kind of a funny hybrid tech, you know,
Speaker 3: handwritten thing, but I like to actually do the writing
Speaker 3: on paper. And because it's in this book that I
Speaker 3: kind of refer to all year, it's just nice. And
Speaker 3: I put my seasonal goals and my monthly goals in
Speaker 3: there as well. I also track my reading in there,
Speaker 3: kind of have things like yeah, I mentioned like all
Speaker 3: my paid time off for the year kind of figured out,
Speaker 3: and then even things like reminding myself what I like
Speaker 3: to do during various planning sessions. I have like guidelines
Speaker 3: in there, so it's like a reference binder. But it's
Speaker 3: been super helpful.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, mine is not that fancy, but I do have
Speaker 3: it's a slightly nicer notebook, and that the cover is
Speaker 3: hard versus fancy.
Speaker 1: Tell us about that fancy. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I bought this one or not,
Speaker 2: if somebody gave me this notebook. That's about the level
Speaker 2: of thought I put into it. But in advance of
Speaker 2: Sarah was Best Laid Plans Live last year. I knew
Speaker 2: coming in and because we would have this goal setting
Speaker 2: episode in November we would record it. I had to
Speaker 2: get organized on what my goals were for the year,
Speaker 2: so I sort of brainstormed in there, and then when
Speaker 2: I went to her retreat, I sort of refined them
Speaker 2: a bit more and wrote like a real list of
Speaker 2: them and some of the stuff that she gave me,
Speaker 2: so it was all there and yeah, I mean, if
Speaker 2: anyone is, I'll put in a plug here. Obviously, Best
Speaker 2: Laid Plans Live is sold out for twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: but if you would like some more of a goal
Speaker 2: setting annual experience, keep that in mind for twenty five.
Speaker 2: And I suspect Sarah may teach a course of goal
Speaker 2: setting that is available for people who can't make the
Speaker 2: live in person event. She'll do an online one that
Speaker 2: you could probably sign up for in November to somewhere
Speaker 2: somewhere in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 3: We did that last year and it was great, and
Speaker 3: it was I think people found it really helpful. So
Speaker 3: you use that, But then let's get to the notebook.
Speaker 3: So then you did you transfer everything to the notebook
Speaker 3: and then you just know where to refer to it,
Speaker 3: like as the year's gone on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean when you reminded we were doing
Speaker 1: this episode, I had to go back and look.
Speaker 2: But most of them I remember because they're so I mean,
Speaker 2: they're either so big, like I knew that I was
Speaker 2: professionally aiming for the book contract for much of the spring,
Speaker 2: or it's daily like the Sonnets and box. So I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna forget that. I wanted to do sonnets and box,
Speaker 2: so you know, I had to remind myself of a
Speaker 2: few things, like the twentieth anniversary, although I sort of
Speaker 2: have that in the back of my brain that it's
Speaker 2: gonna happen, but something will happen, Something will happen.
Speaker 1: Awesome.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's no right answer as to where you
Speaker 3: keep them, except that you have them somewhere where you're
Speaker 3: gonna remember and be able to find later. For some people,
Speaker 3: digital works better for that. For other people, some kind
Speaker 3: of physical item works better. But there's no one right answer.
Speaker 1: There, all right, Sarah, I love of the Week.
Speaker 3: I love these episodes. They're so fun, they're fun to do,
Speaker 3: they're fun to listen to. I hope other podcasts are
Speaker 3: doing midyear check ins. I feel like Happier usually does one.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: People, let me know if you've heard a good midyear
Speaker 3: check in episode. Please send me an email Sarah dot
Speaker 3: Heart dot Hunger at gmail dot com alert me to
Speaker 3: where I can find these episodes because I enjoy listening
Speaker 3: to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean I enjoy them too, and it's
Speaker 2: good that we do them because it reminds me to
Speaker 2: check in on my annual goals and that level of
Speaker 2: accountability is good for all of us. But if you
Speaker 2: don't have that built into your life, take this as
Speaker 2: the opportunity to think back. Did you set any New
Speaker 2: Year's resolutions? Did you make any goals for the year?
Speaker 2: Did you have to sort of set anything as professional
Speaker 2: goals at work, like when you were doing a check
Speaker 2: in with your manager at the beginning of the year.
Speaker 2: Do you have any that you set personally apart from that,
Speaker 2: did you and your partner discuss anything that you would
Speaker 2: like your family to look like. See if you can
Speaker 2: kind of retrace these if you wrote them in one place, awesome,
Speaker 2: But if you didn't, I don't know, maybe sort of
Speaker 2: think back and look at what you were doing at
Speaker 2: the time or anything that you thought was important to
Speaker 2: you then. But you can also set new goals now,
Speaker 2: like even if you didn't set goals at the beginning
Speaker 2: of the year. There is nothing magical about January first.
Speaker 2: I mean sometimes it feels a little magical, but there's
Speaker 2: nothing actually magical about it. You can absolutely set goals
Speaker 2: that start July first, right in the middle of the year.
Speaker 2: They could be annual goals, like to see how you
Speaker 2: do at the end of fiscal year of going through
Speaker 2: in the summer, or just check in in December again,
Speaker 2: or you can set quarterly goals right or quintile goals,
Speaker 2: whatever you want, but starting July first to September thirty,
Speaker 2: that would be a great length of time to set
Speaker 2: some goals for and see how you do with that.
Speaker 2: So we always think it's worthwhile to at least try yes,
Speaker 2: love it all right, Well, this has been best of
Speaker 2: both worlds with our mid year goal check in. We
Speaker 2: will be back next week with more on making work
Speaker 2: and life fit together.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com
Speaker 3: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you.
Speaker 2: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
Speaker 2: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
Speaker 2: us next time for more on making work and life
Speaker 2: work together.