Speaker 1: Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King.
Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your
Speaker 1: favorite shows from the Real Housewives in Atlanta, New Jersey
Speaker 1: and my own creation, The Love and Marriage Franchise and
Speaker 1: Bell Collective. Every episode, we recap reality television from the
Speaker 1: Real Housewives Franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset. In
Speaker 1: addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or
Speaker 1: scripted as well. Rain drops on today's episode of Reality
Speaker 1: with the King. Look, he is not only my friend,
Speaker 1: he's one of my faves. He also has been one
Speaker 1: of my most requested interviews. We've been trying to do
Speaker 1: this since I started my podcast in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: but God's timing is always perfect. Please give it up
Speaker 1: for the iconic. He goes by one name only, Karama.
Speaker 1: You ain't gonna come Beyonce, Janet, Brittany Shaka Aria.
Speaker 2: In there.
Speaker 1: You look good. I listen the rain jobs. I have
Speaker 1: to know he is like one of my good Judy's
Speaker 1: good friends. And I have to say thank you for
Speaker 1: saying yes. Finally, bitch, I said yes.
Speaker 2: It's always been scheduling and what I tell you for
Speaker 2: the interview, I said, there's nothing off limits. You can
Speaker 2: ask me anything, you know. I'm open book with you, baby,
Speaker 2: you are. You ain't know what the skeletons buried. I
Speaker 2: can't even lie about it if I wanted to.
Speaker 1: But you don't listen. The thing about you and this,
Speaker 1: you are an open book. And I think that's the
Speaker 1: reason why none of this to me is a surprise,
Speaker 1: because I never said this publicly, because I've been waiting
Speaker 1: for the moment to give your flowers publicly. I do
Speaker 1: it privately because he and I always are texting and
Speaker 1: dming and all those things. But as we celebrate pride,
Speaker 1: I'm not here to celebrate you just being, you know,
Speaker 1: a gay activist, an ubly gay black man, the first
Speaker 1: ever to come out on reality television. You are icon
Speaker 1: for sure. And it's not something I'm saying loosely. It's
Speaker 1: because you are genuinely a good person. You have never changed,
Speaker 1: you have never switched up. And the thing that I
Speaker 1: want to say to people when I was casting for
Speaker 1: the next fifteen, you don't know this.
Speaker 2: You know. You told me you had a story and
Speaker 2: I was like, what story is this? I don't know.
Speaker 1: It wasn't supposed to be a co ed show.
Speaker 2: It wasn't.
Speaker 1: The network was toying with the idea, do you want
Speaker 1: to make it like Hollywood Divas, which was my successful
Speaker 1: show on TV one all women. Do you want to
Speaker 1: make it about women or do you want to make
Speaker 1: a co ed And I said, I don't know, let
Speaker 1: me just start casting. You are the reason why we
Speaker 1: made the show co ed.
Speaker 2: Did not know that because.
Speaker 1: When I was auditioning people, you know that we met
Speaker 1: because I listen. They don't know this. I did the
Speaker 1: casting myself.
Speaker 2: You did.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like somebody was there interviewing you. It was
Speaker 1: me and not only were you early. I do stay
Speaker 1: on time like he was today. I do stay on
Speaker 1: time like I'm five minutes away. He's like, that's okay,
Speaker 1: I'm in the lobby. I'm like, this bitch was always earlier.
Speaker 1: You were early. You were the consummate professional, and I
Speaker 1: was so impressed by you. And I remember you leaving
Speaker 1: the interview and I called the network and I said,
Speaker 1: we have to make the show co ed because I
Speaker 1: said I have to cast time.
Speaker 2: I did not know that you are a star to
Speaker 2: me that hold on, but I told you earlier. So
Speaker 2: first of all, thank you for telling me that story.
Speaker 2: And it goes to what I was not to give
Speaker 2: your flowers publicly because the way you put us as
Speaker 2: black folks on in front of the camera, behind the camera,
Speaker 2: people out there, y'all need to understand how hard this
Speaker 2: is for people of color. And this man consistently puts
Speaker 2: people on and y'all might want to attack, but y'all
Speaker 2: don't realize this a network people above that do this
Speaker 2: stupid stuff. This man is always protecting us, always putting
Speaker 2: us on, always caring for us. And that next fifteen
Speaker 2: I was trying to break in after being on the
Speaker 2: real world. This is years later, and I needed something
Speaker 2: that was going to make me put me in a
Speaker 2: position where people saw me back as a household name,
Speaker 2: saw me as somebody with value. And I couldn't find
Speaker 2: that opportunity because everyone was still this is the time
Speaker 2: when like, you know, we both get black. They was
Speaker 2: like mm hmm, no, no, no, no, no, you definitely you
Speaker 2: might come on as a friend, you might come on here,
Speaker 2: but you're not gonna be leading anything.
Speaker 1: You're not You're not on the poster.
Speaker 2: You're not on the poster. You are not on the poster,
Speaker 2: and Carlos said, you're on the poster, and I'm gonna
Speaker 2: put you next to these women who are iconic. Man
Speaker 2: Benzino was there too, these people who have large careers,
Speaker 2: and I was so thankful that another gay black man
Speaker 2: put me on and I told you, I said, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna do whatever you want. You tell me, you tell
Speaker 2: me what you want better, I'm gonna show up. I'm
Speaker 2: but I just had to give you that Flowers because
Speaker 2: that was really the catalyst for me having a name
Speaker 2: to walk in the rooms that right there was the
Speaker 2: one where people were like, oh I saw you on
Speaker 2: a carpet, were Claudia Jordan, Oh oh I saw you're
Speaker 2: with that guy who started that magazine, Benzino. It just
Speaker 2: all of a sudden put me in conversations that I
Speaker 2: wasn't in before. And that's solely because of you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that, Thank you for that. No, the
Speaker 1: thing for me has always been, you can't be in
Speaker 1: this position and not open doors for people who look
Speaker 1: like you. And when it comes to the reality genre,
Speaker 1: it listen, the sort of surrounding narrative is mess, mess, mess, mess, mess,
Speaker 1: and we don't talk enough about the opportunity and the
Speaker 1: way the doors open enough for you, which is why
Speaker 1: all of your success is not a surprise to me.
Speaker 1: But I do want to start back early, explain to us,
Speaker 1: like who was Caramo Brown? As a young black kid
Speaker 1: growing up.
Speaker 2: I think the things I was a bit about the dichotomy.
Speaker 2: I was pretty insecure because I grew up in a household,
Speaker 2: a Caribbean household. My parents aren't from this country. My
Speaker 2: family's Jamaican Cuban, where I was consistently bombarded with with
Speaker 2: with comments that I was less than because of my sexuality,
Speaker 2: because you know, I told everyone that I was gay
Speaker 2: when I was fifteen, and so people don't realize that
Speaker 2: that was what year that was though, because this is
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five. So y'all gonnaderstand growing nineteen ninety five,
Speaker 2: I'm walking through here like this is who I am.
Speaker 2: And it was constant, you know, berating, constant this, you're
Speaker 2: not that, You're not that, and it broke me. But
Speaker 2: on the flip side, even though it was breaking me,
Speaker 2: and when I was alone, I would be like, I'm hurting,
Speaker 2: this is so bad. In public at school, I was
Speaker 2: a shit. I ain't give a fuck, what tell me something?
Speaker 2: And so I had this like broken but fearless thing
Speaker 2: that was happening consistently, like I feel fearless, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: do it because if I can stand up to my
Speaker 2: father who was playing you know, Bojo bonton at this time,
Speaker 2: boom bye and bye and a box, you know, like
Speaker 2: you're fifteen years old, and they're like you, like, oh okay, dad,
Speaker 2: you know you know. And so I was fearless but
Speaker 2: also broken, and that little boy just said he's gonna
Speaker 2: do whatever he can to make sure that no one
Speaker 2: else feels broken. And that was literally the catalyst. It
Speaker 2: was like the catalyst for why do everything that I do?
Speaker 2: Is that I said, I'm not no one else is
Speaker 2: going to be broken.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the first time you knew like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gay?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: When was it?
Speaker 2: I saw Samar Morris fine ass that whatever.
Speaker 1: That not our look, not our mutuals friends X.
Speaker 2: Oh listen, I've heard the story about Samar.
Speaker 1: Girl, our mutual our mutual girlfriend that dated.
Speaker 2: Hell, yes, but I'll tell you that man in the nineties,
Speaker 2: I mean everything, and I just said, oh, that's this
Speaker 2: is the option maybe that I want that that's there's
Speaker 2: options and yeah, but you know, in reality, I kind
Speaker 2: of knew before then, Like there's always whispers for us
Speaker 2: as kids from adults. And this is the thing that
Speaker 2: sometimes I try to tell people as a father. You know,
Speaker 2: people always want to say that gay people are sexualizing children.
Speaker 2: They make that as some narrative to dig at us,
Speaker 2: but the truth is that we're not. Every story I
Speaker 2: have of someone over sexualizing me or sexualizing me before
Speaker 2: I was ready was from from strade people, all the
Speaker 2: girls in my life, women in my lifetime, about that's
Speaker 2: your girlfriend. You don't want to give her a kiss,
Speaker 2: you don't want to hold dud I'm three, I'm four,
Speaker 2: I'm five. I haven't even thought of that. And it was, oh,
Speaker 2: this is my little man, this is my boyfriend, this
Speaker 2: is my husband. Oh come here, oh baby, if you
Speaker 2: was older, those are the comments that I received, And
Speaker 2: it made me immediately realize first of all that like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be sexual and you know, like this
Speaker 2: is required of me as a man, Like I'm supposed
Speaker 2: to put on this presence of this. But then at
Speaker 2: the same flip side, I was like, you call me
Speaker 2: your boyfriend. I don't like that. Like, not just because
Speaker 2: you're older, but also because let your husband call me that,
Speaker 2: and so you know that was that was when I
Speaker 2: really realized.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's funny you say that too, because one
Speaker 1: thing that I find so disturbing and odd people think
Speaker 1: there's this gay agenda. And what is so interesting is
Speaker 1: because you see two men kissing in front of the
Speaker 1: cameras and stuff, it doesn't make anyone gay. We grew
Speaker 1: watching nothing, but it did nothing for me. Nothing nothing
Speaker 1: for me, And that that's what's so fascinating about me.
Speaker 1: Like I knew that. I knew when I was a
Speaker 1: little kid, but it wasn't until I watched Ello COOJS
Speaker 1: on bad Video. Yeah, I was like, oh huh, Jenna Jackson,
Speaker 1: I find iconic. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: I find her iconic. I want to I want to
Speaker 2: do dance, but baby, I'm not. I don't want to
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 1: I want to. I'm into this.
Speaker 2: And that was makes so much sense now the people
Speaker 2: you date, this, this takes so much sense now when
Speaker 2: we look at Okay, okay, now I know where this
Speaker 2: came from. My take when I tell y'all, one day
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do the Carlos King exclusive, because actually, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do the Carlos King exclusive. I'm gonna sit
Speaker 2: down and let you tell your tea one day, because baby,
Speaker 2: you you got all the tea, baby, and you also
Speaker 2: have a life story that people need to hear. I
Speaker 2: actually do, and I look you do, I will give
Speaker 2: it to you. Yeah, we're gonna sit down in miss story.
Speaker 2: We're gonna.
Speaker 1: But you obviously had a child, which means you you
Speaker 1: slept with the woman. So talk to us about that
Speaker 1: decision and were you trying to just see if this
Speaker 1: is what I want because I can't get interaction with
Speaker 1: the woman. So the fact that you've proceeded to do that.
Speaker 2: Well, it was only because I was fifteen and so
Speaker 2: like you know, the wind cablow and she was ready, okay,
Speaker 2: like the wind could just someone can sneeze, and I
Speaker 2: was ready. Okay, it was you know, that's the Caribbean roots. Okay,
Speaker 2: But is.
Speaker 1: It true what they say about Jamaican men.
Speaker 2: It is everything about us, really.
Speaker 1: Scorpio Scorpio November that.
Speaker 2: I am a freak. I am yeah mm hmm yeah,
Speaker 2: I have no no issues.
Speaker 1: Do you have any boundaries?
Speaker 2: No? See, this is the thing the loving personality. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna give y'all the loving personality that sweet and want
Speaker 2: to fix stuff. I I am the exact opposite in
Speaker 2: the bedroom, you know what I mean, Like I like
Speaker 2: my partner calls me daddy. You know what I mean,
Speaker 2: and I take that to heart. Like I pay bills
Speaker 2: like I do it all. Yeah, you see it, Like.
Speaker 1: Oh, I am the exact same way.
Speaker 2: I'm paying the bills. I'm opening up every car door
Speaker 2: for you. I'm taking care of you, baby, like in
Speaker 2: all ways, financially, mentally, emotionally, sexually, I'm taking care of you.
Speaker 2: And that's that's how it goes.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you have sex with one girl.
Speaker 2: She was my best friend and she was one of
Speaker 2: the sweetest people. She's still we you know, she's in
Speaker 2: my child's life. There's not a moment that passes. But
Speaker 2: she's just an amazing girl. And we were fifteen, and
Speaker 2: we had a conversation about trying this, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, and it literally, I promise you lasted five seconds,
Speaker 2: not even six seconds, ten seconds. I know it wasn't
Speaker 2: no more than two minutes. I know that it was
Speaker 2: very quick and in and out. And I said after that,
Speaker 2: I said, I'm not doing this again. That's not happening again.
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it again. And it's not because I
Speaker 2: don't like I'm actually one of these gay guys that
Speaker 2: on there's the female body, like I like when my
Speaker 2: girlfriends are standing front of me and I look back
Speaker 2: and I'd be like, God, damn you fine, look at
Speaker 2: that body. I don't want to do nothing with it,
Speaker 2: but I honor it. So when I was with my
Speaker 2: son's mother, it wasn't that I was like, oh, scirls.
Speaker 2: It just was I was like, again, this don't feel right,
Speaker 2: this don't feel right. But what that moment was was
Speaker 2: realizing that God had a greater plan for me. And
Speaker 2: it's one of the things that I always hold on
Speaker 2: to anytime I feel lost, anytimes i feel like a
Speaker 2: decision I'm making, if it's supposed to work out, I'm
Speaker 2: always like, there's some bigger plan. There's some bigger plan.
Speaker 2: Because fatherhood, as you know, you know my son, it
Speaker 2: is the most important thing to me. I'm about to
Speaker 2: be a grandfather. It's like, really, yes, well I call
Speaker 2: myself a grand zaddy. You are a granddaddy. Congratulation, thank you.
Speaker 2: And I'm just saying the thing is that that is
Speaker 2: so important to me, fatherhood, being there for my grandchild,
Speaker 2: like I'm there for my son and his girl, and
Speaker 2: and I'm like, my son saved my life. He literally
Speaker 2: saved my life. I don't know where I'd be today
Speaker 2: if it wasn't for Jason. He he is the reason
Speaker 2: that I'm alive, that I strive to do things. He's
Speaker 2: He's my everything. And so I realized God had a
Speaker 2: bigger plan for that one moment that you know wasn't
Speaker 2: supposed to happen when you.
Speaker 1: Got the call that she was pregnant.
Speaker 2: What was your reaction, You mean when I got the
Speaker 2: paper work, paper work nine years later, the paperwork, the
Speaker 2: paper work. Yeah, I wasn't in his life for the
Speaker 2: first nine years.
Speaker 1: And this is this she decided to keep it to herself.
Speaker 2: Well, it's because I moved away. We both moved away.
Speaker 2: And so this is this is nineteen ninety five again,
Speaker 2: and like people of our generation understand, there was no
Speaker 2: cell phones, there was no social media. If someone moved
Speaker 2: and you didn't have a Mama house number or the
Speaker 2: mailing address, you weren't in contact. And so again I
Speaker 2: had already identified as gay and was letting people into
Speaker 2: my life. So at that point, I don't use the
Speaker 2: term coming out. It's been something that I've been saying
Speaker 2: for the past ten years to try to like to
Speaker 2: change the culture, and it's been working. I see people
Speaker 2: starting to say it now, but the term we are
Speaker 2: not coming out. The term is actually letting people in.
Speaker 2: That is the actual act. And I believe that when
Speaker 2: we start to give people that language, it changes their
Speaker 2: mental health, their emotional health, because when you let come out,
Speaker 2: you're giving someone else the power to accept or deny you.
Speaker 2: But when you let someone in, you have that power.
Speaker 2: You say, I can let you in, and some people
Speaker 2: don't deserve to be let in. That whole thing that
Speaker 2: we need to make grand announcements, I don't need to
Speaker 2: make a grand announcement of none. If you're not telling
Speaker 2: me who you fucking ad fucking Christmas Dinna. I don't
Speaker 2: even tell you who I'm fucking unless I want to
Speaker 2: let you in, and there's no shame in me. I
Speaker 2: believe at one point in our community it was important
Speaker 2: to come out. Visibility was so important, and not saying
Speaker 2: that visibility is an important now, but the pressure that
Speaker 2: we put on people to feel like they have to
Speaker 2: come out to prove that they love themselves. No, I
Speaker 2: love myself more when I'm selective about who I let in.
Speaker 2: I have the power, Like if you knock on my
Speaker 2: door and I open the door and I realize you
Speaker 2: crazy bitch, and I don't let you in, I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna be at my house and be like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: I didn't let bitch. No, I'm happy I didn't even
Speaker 2: come in here and destroying my shit. And I think
Speaker 2: we come out when you come out, you allow too
Speaker 2: many people in your life to start destroying your shit.
Speaker 1: And when I look at que Latifah ooh, I love her,
Speaker 1: who I idolize in the sense of protecting her own
Speaker 1: personal life. Yes, at a time that worked for her.
Speaker 1: And the thing about it is she was never in
Speaker 1: the closet, like you said, in the sense of like
Speaker 1: not being herself, and.
Speaker 2: When she always herself.
Speaker 1: Always herself. And we have mutual friends who is friends
Speaker 1: with her, They call her Dana by her real name,
Speaker 1: and they all said to me, like, Dana has never
Speaker 1: been in the closet.
Speaker 2: Never. Each time I ever had seen her, I just
Speaker 2: saw like a year ago and we were at this
Speaker 2: old house together and she came up. We were hugging
Speaker 2: and talking and I'm like, this is the woman I've
Speaker 2: always seen, just powerful and knowing herself, and she is
Speaker 2: a prime example of bitch, I'm gonna let yall in
Speaker 2: when I need to let y'all in. I'm not ashamed
Speaker 2: of who I am, and I honor her and I'm
Speaker 2: so glad you brought her up because she is the
Speaker 2: example of what I hope this next generation does when
Speaker 2: it comes to how they love themselves and how and
Speaker 2: when they decide to tell the world of who they love.
Speaker 2: It's your power. You don't have to give it all away.
Speaker 2: You said when you god damn ready.
Speaker 1: Could not agree more day, I could not agree more
Speaker 1: So you found out nine years later and you immediately
Speaker 1: had to fall into fatherhood. And I'm always curious because
Speaker 1: you our mutual friend, Ty Hunter. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: gay men are a who are fathers, And I've always
Speaker 1: been curious in terms of, like, what is that life
Speaker 1: like for you because you are openly gay and you
Speaker 1: are at this point you're raising a black son. Were
Speaker 1: you prepared for the job and were you did you
Speaker 1: accept that Okay, this is my life is going to
Speaker 1: be moving forward.
Speaker 2: I think I was more prepared than most fathers. And
Speaker 2: I say this because when you grow up as a
Speaker 2: gay black boy in America, even so like me in
Speaker 2: the South, there are there's discrimination from outside of your
Speaker 2: community and within your community. You are constantly having to
Speaker 2: figure out how to protect yourself, how to continuously love yourself,
Speaker 2: how to navigate spaces. I tell people we went to
Speaker 2: church Wednesday, Sunday, Saturday, and Sunday. And imagine going into
Speaker 2: places that are supposed to be safe and full of love,
Speaker 2: and people will tell you, probably that they love you,
Speaker 2: but then be preaching against you and not protecting you.
Speaker 2: You know. Like what hurt me the most when I
Speaker 2: was a child was the silence that aunts or people
Speaker 2: who said they loved me had when their husband would
Speaker 2: say something. I'd be like, girl, like you just told
Speaker 2: me you rock with me, and like I'm your friend,
Speaker 2: and like you love me. And then when your husband
Speaker 2: or somebody in your family is saying something derogatory that
Speaker 2: you know is not true about me, your silence cut
Speaker 2: deeper than anything. And so having those experiences and understanding
Speaker 2: what I needed from a man, what I needed from
Speaker 2: a father, what I needed from a leader, I said,
Speaker 2: once I became a father, Oh, you're getting all those things.
Speaker 2: You're getting all those things. You're going to get a
Speaker 2: man who's going to be there twenty four to seven.
Speaker 2: You're going to get a man who's going to make
Speaker 2: sure that you are strong while also being able to
Speaker 2: be vulnerable. You're going to know that I'm going to
Speaker 2: step into spaces and I'm always going to speak up
Speaker 2: for you. I will always defend you, I will love
Speaker 2: you always. And that's that's why me and my son
Speaker 2: to this day have the best relationship because I was
Speaker 2: equipped because of my struggles to make sure that I
Speaker 2: was a great father.
Speaker 1: Did you always know that you wanted to get in
Speaker 1: the entertainment business?
Speaker 2: Yes? Like when did you?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: When did it hit you like I want to be this?
Speaker 2: It was watching any Tony Braxton video where she had
Speaker 2: what's the guy? What's the guy from Groove Theory? What's
Speaker 2: his name?
Speaker 1: Bryce?
Speaker 2: Bryce? So in my mind I thought I was as
Speaker 2: fine as Bryce. Okay, you are fine, but Bryce was fine.
Speaker 1: Fine.
Speaker 2: That man was fine, fine, back guy. If y'all don't
Speaker 2: know who that man is, go google him. And every
Speaker 2: time I saw him, I was like, I want to
Speaker 2: do that, and so I just I just knew I
Speaker 2: wanted to be in that. I didn't know what that was,
Speaker 2: but I knew I wanted to be in. And then
Speaker 2: I remember watching Ashton Kutcher on They used to have
Speaker 2: this thing on VH one called Fashion TV, and Ashton
Speaker 2: Kutcher had just one model of the year and part
Speaker 2: of his deals that he got to be a correspondent.
Speaker 2: And I didn't even know what that word correspondent was,
Speaker 2: but baby, I tell you, for the rest of the
Speaker 2: year that school year, I was I'm a correspondent of corspondent, okay, baby,
Speaker 2: And I just was like, that's now I know what
Speaker 2: I want to do, which I have a mouth. I
Speaker 2: love to talk. That's what I want to do. And
Speaker 2: it was very clear and so, but that's not something
Speaker 2: I could express. My family, we again were we were
Speaker 2: an immigrant family and so my parents came here so
Speaker 2: that we went to school. And I'm also the youngest.
Speaker 2: I have all older sisters, and all of my older
Speaker 2: sisters are the most intelligent, degreed up women. You know,
Speaker 2: my sisters got master's doctor them. Women are so intelligent
Speaker 2: that here I come the last Baby TV that ain't.
Speaker 2: That's not a career. Take your ass into school, go
Speaker 2: to school, be successful, do these things. And I'm glad
Speaker 2: I did because the experiences I had going to like
Speaker 2: fam you that's why I went undergrad Florida m University,
Speaker 2: go od ratless. We strike those relationships, the things I learned,
Speaker 2: the pride I had being a back black man, walking
Speaker 2: those those those highest of hills are invaluable. It's the
Speaker 2: way I walk in a room still to this day.
Speaker 2: If my parents would not have said go to college,
Speaker 2: what matriculating through an HPC you did for me is
Speaker 2: I walk into every boardroom meeting knowing that I am
Speaker 2: the shit, not because I'm arrogant or ego, but because
Speaker 2: being at an HPC you taught me that black people
Speaker 2: belong in every room and that we are smart and
Speaker 2: we are amazing. And it is one of the reasons
Speaker 2: why I feel like I can have titles like the
Speaker 2: first openly gay black man on reality television, the first
Speaker 2: gay man to ever have a daytime talk show, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like, these are things because I
Speaker 2: walk in a room demanding because when I was when
Speaker 2: I was at you know, at HBCU, they were like
Speaker 2: you know, this is who you are. You you you
Speaker 2: are old the world and so yeah, how.
Speaker 1: Did you know to audition for the real world in
Speaker 1: the first place?
Speaker 2: I didn't. You didn't know this story about all the
Speaker 2: real story. Hold by the way, before I go to HBCUs,
Speaker 2: you want a little HBCU fact What this is an
Speaker 2: HBCU real pizza tea. You know who I was friends
Speaker 2: with and went to school with, and we were on
Speaker 2: what is if you've ever been to HBCU. They had
Speaker 2: the Royal Court. That's like when we have the queens,
Speaker 2: and you know Kimberly k Michelle shut off.
Speaker 1: Came.
Speaker 2: Michelle and I were on the royal court together. We
Speaker 2: have known each other since then. And when I tell y'all,
Speaker 2: I just love that woman and I just see her
Speaker 2: and I'm just like so proud. And she also needs
Speaker 2: her flowers because I love Beyonce. You know, I'm a
Speaker 2: stand But that girl been yodeling, yell and putting on
Speaker 2: in the country world before anybody, any of y'all hoes,
Speaker 2: that girl was. I am country through and through.
Speaker 1: But anyway, digress, no, no, no, we can regress now.
Speaker 1: The thing give Kimberly Michelle all her flowers, Kimbell, Kimberly,
Speaker 1: Michelle Pate. I could not agree more.
Speaker 2: Like people you know, like, yes, she's a great personality,
Speaker 2: but that talent and what in the room she has
Speaker 2: had to go into this again, there's a common theme
Speaker 2: and this way I appreciate talking to you. People look
Speaker 2: at us and see our careers, and I could get
Speaker 2: emotional right now. They don't understand the bullshit we have
Speaker 2: to go through when we go to these production companies.
Speaker 2: When we go to these networks, you walk in a
Speaker 2: room and if there is fifty, it is only two
Speaker 2: of us, sometimes none of us. And we are fighting
Speaker 2: for out of one hundred jobs, don't you know we
Speaker 2: it's sixty white crew members and three of us. And
Speaker 2: when I look at things like Kay Michelle, when I
Speaker 2: look at you, when I look at me, I know
Speaker 2: I'm looking past all the accomplishments. What I'm impressed by
Speaker 2: on top of that is I know what you have
Speaker 2: to do in those rooms. You know what came Tochelle
Speaker 2: had to do without knowing. I know what she had
Speaker 2: to do to be in rooms where now these young
Speaker 2: country girls are just walking through freely. I know what
Speaker 2: you had to do to get your for you to
Speaker 2: get all these shows on air. People don't realize how
Speaker 2: difficult that is. And then to say I want to
Speaker 2: make it all black cast.
Speaker 1: Baby.
Speaker 2: I have been in rooms and they have said, we
Speaker 2: don't want that, straight to my face, we don't want that.
Speaker 2: What we don't want we don't we don't need enough
Speaker 2: bunch of women, whatever derogatory thing.
Speaker 1: I had a never exact tell me a year ago.
Speaker 1: You know, look, we're just not he said this to
Speaker 1: me on some off the record type ship. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna of course networks, but I was told that, like,
Speaker 1: we're not looking for any black ensembles, and.
Speaker 2: They say it so clearly, like we're just And I've
Speaker 2: never heard from one of my white friends in the industry,
Speaker 2: They've never when I tell them that, people will have
Speaker 2: the audacity to say to me, we're not looking for
Speaker 2: black gay people. I'm like, have they ever said that
Speaker 2: I look for a white guy? And they're like, no,
Speaker 2: I've never heard them say we're not looking for an
Speaker 2: all white cast. And so I just I just wish
Speaker 2: people could understand and sometimes yes, we're personalities, and you know,
Speaker 2: like we're in front of the camera, we have to
Speaker 2: entertain things getting missy, things get fun, things get emotional.
Speaker 2: But especially when you look at black talent, I wish
Speaker 2: people could look at that lens and say, damn, I
Speaker 2: know what they are going through because the things that
Speaker 2: you see. For the few of us that have a lot,
Speaker 2: there has been so many times when people told us
Speaker 2: that we shouldn't have shit.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and and and and they and they still
Speaker 1: do and what's unfortunate is and we'll get to this
Speaker 1: much later, but I'm disappointed in some of the black
Speaker 1: folks on social media who want to put us down
Speaker 1: to uplift the white man, like you don't listen, you
Speaker 1: don't have to like me, like everybody. The moment we
Speaker 1: decided to become public figures is the moment we knew that, Okay,
Speaker 1: we are subjected to shade and all that, and I'm
Speaker 1: cool with that. Yes, I don't care about all that.
Speaker 1: Don't make up allow on me. That's my thing, and
Speaker 1: don't put me down to in the same breadth of
Speaker 1: lift my white counterparts. And you get that a lot.
Speaker 1: And we'll get to that later because because we have
Speaker 1: a lot to talk about there as well.
Speaker 2: Okay, you said, the real world, I keep derailing you no, no, no,
Speaker 2: real quickly. The reason I got in the rail world
Speaker 2: format here, there's the reason I got in the real
Speaker 2: world is because I was protesting MTV. People don't know that.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that I was protesting MTV, like publicly, publicly.
Speaker 2: So I was working for a non profit organization in
Speaker 2: South Central at the time. This after I graduated, and
Speaker 2: my kids were getting locked up because they were mimicking
Speaker 2: a show called Pimp My Ride. You remember that with
Speaker 2: exhibit So these kids were going and stealing things, small things.
Speaker 2: They weren't This was not grand theft auto or something,
Speaker 2: but they were taking things off of cars as silly
Speaker 2: kids do, trying to put it on, you know, their bikes,
Speaker 2: put it on like their mom's car, like the the
Speaker 2: you know, like the the what is the thing called
Speaker 2: in the front of the car, like when the logo's up,
Speaker 2: like it's you know, straight man in the room. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the emblem. Yeah, the emblem?
Speaker 1: What that got the straight and gentlemen.
Speaker 2: So they were taking off and so I'm fresh again.
Speaker 2: FAM you Fam you taught me you fight, you don't,
Speaker 2: I mean I started protesting at FAM. You We used
Speaker 2: to go on marches all the time. To the Capitol,
Speaker 2: and this is the time when Jeb Bush was in
Speaker 2: and we would be we would be protesting. We would
Speaker 2: be protesting all the time. Because I was also in
Speaker 2: student government and so my mindset was, if my kids
Speaker 2: are getting locked up, I have to look at the
Speaker 2: source and fight the source. And so the source is MTV.
Speaker 2: So I got a couple of parents together, friends together.
Speaker 2: It was only about twenty of us, and we went
Speaker 2: to the MTV offices and you were out there protesting,
Speaker 2: didn't have a meeting, didn't know what it was gonna do,
Speaker 2: and we had poster boards and all this. And this
Speaker 2: woman came out and said who organized this? And I
Speaker 2: said me and my boyfriend. And that bitch looked at
Speaker 2: me and she said black, gay and angry. She said
Speaker 2: come back to the next day. And so I went home.
Speaker 2: Was so excited. I went home put together a PowerPoint presentation. Baby,
Speaker 2: you have always been an over time because I'm like,
Speaker 2: if you tell me to come back and I'm gonna
Speaker 2: get to meet with people, bitch, I want to be prepared.
Speaker 1: Girl.
Speaker 2: I need to tell you the data of what I
Speaker 2: have learned of why these show need to be off
Speaker 2: and this is nothing against exhibit. I didn't know the man,
Speaker 2: I said on the man, but it was just like,
Speaker 2: you know, bitch. I got to the next day and
Speaker 2: they said, no, we don't want to talk about that.
Speaker 2: This is a castle for real world. God bless myself.
Speaker 2: I ain't never seen them kids ever again. Baby, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I said, what do you want to put me in
Speaker 2: the house. We're two hot tubs, my bitch. This is
Speaker 2: why I do the work I do. Now I'm making up.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to make amends brothers that I just baby,
Speaker 2: and it was on I said, I'm doing it.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I remember again the power of and I'm
Speaker 1: not going to get emotional. I say this and I
Speaker 1: never said this to you the I don't think people
Speaker 1: understand the power of representation. We're the same age. Right
Speaker 1: when the real world happened is when we started to
Speaker 1: see you. And because your mask presenting right and the
Speaker 1: way not that I'm a reality producer, I can I
Speaker 1: cannot look back on your season and say, well played production,
Speaker 1: because they sort of made us fall in love with
Speaker 1: you like you and then it was, you know, we wait,
Speaker 1: they waited to like drop the bomb that I'm gay.
Speaker 2: It was like.
Speaker 1: K this mask presenting gorgeous black ben.
Speaker 2: With the fitted You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Original that you are the original trade. And I remember
Speaker 1: I came out around that time and my older sister,
Speaker 1: and again it's no shade to her time.
Speaker 3: The thing is you let the men around that time
Speaker 3: your family. Yes, thank you. I let them in around
Speaker 3: that time. And my sister asked me because she said,
Speaker 3: are you Karamo? I said, and I knew what that meant,
Speaker 3: and she said to me, you better tell me now.
Speaker 3: I won't accept it.
Speaker 1: And again and guys, this is back in the nine
Speaker 1: and we're so don't This is not even like shade,
Speaker 1: it's just truth. But my point was you opened the
Speaker 1: doors for black men like me. That was in my twenties.
Speaker 1: I've always been effeminine. It wasn't like I could hide
Speaker 1: being gay. But like you said, I did not let
Speaker 1: people in because of where society was at that time.
Speaker 1: And I don't think you get enough credit for And
Speaker 1: I'm sure listen, and I want you to talk about
Speaker 1: this because I'm sure it's not just me. I'm giving
Speaker 1: you all your flowers, the fucking bouquet of roses, because Karamo,
Speaker 1: you made it easier for me to let people in.
Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure you must get that we were scared.
Speaker 1: We didn't have any images. We had Lcuta and were
Speaker 1: contracted to and they're straight and we have RuPaul, but
Speaker 1: that was a you know, at that time, the terms
Speaker 1: of drag queen. But we didn't have anybody that was like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's he's gay, he's black, and oh he's like me.
Speaker 1: He wears like boy clothes and all those things, like
Speaker 1: are you aware of that?
Speaker 2: I am, and just recently start to receive it, because
Speaker 2: you know, like when you're in the trenches as we are,
Speaker 2: you can't stop and be like, oh, maybe I did
Speaker 2: you sort of just hustling. You're like, oh, thank y'all.
Speaker 2: I'm glad, you know what I mean, because for the longest,
Speaker 2: the real world had a different feeling for me, Like
Speaker 2: you know, so when people tell me like these stories,
Speaker 2: like now, I'm so honored and I receive it. I'm
Speaker 2: so thankful that I could be there because You're right.
Speaker 2: When we were coming up, the thing that people used
Speaker 2: to say is like, are you RuPaul? Because that was
Speaker 2: their only reference. And I'm aware that once I came
Speaker 2: on the scene that shifted again, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: for better or worse, whatever that is. And but for me,
Speaker 2: what I remember during that time is, and you, as
Speaker 2: a producer, you understand this. They told me go to
Speaker 2: the club and go to my clubs. Dude, go where
Speaker 2: I go. You're supposed to live your life openly. This
Speaker 2: is two thousand and four. I will go to the
Speaker 2: black gay club and when that light will go on
Speaker 2: for that camera. It's not like today where all the
Speaker 2: girls want to be on camera. Oh no, they were scattered.
Speaker 2: Any club I went to, they would I mean literally
Speaker 2: all everybody will leave. Everybody would leave, and I would
Speaker 2: be in a club that, now on camera seemed empty,
Speaker 2: and the producers was like, we don't want to We
Speaker 2: can't go to these clubs. This looks horrible, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. They would sit me down and they'd be like,
Speaker 2: there's nobody in the club, and I'd be like, it's
Speaker 2: because the camera whatever. Is there a way you can
Speaker 2: turn off the light, you know? And they're like, no,
Speaker 2: we can't turn off the light, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And then at some point the black clubs in Philly
Speaker 2: stopped asking me to come because I was fucking with
Speaker 2: they money, and so imagine I'm twenty three, I now
Speaker 2: always live. I used to be at Atlanta at tracks. You know, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, hey, in the club, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But the old girl, they know where I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: But as tracks, baby, it's an aquarium now right, I
Speaker 2: think it's an aquarium. It it's an aquarium now right. Anyway,
Speaker 2: but I would But so, now imagine that's the mindset
Speaker 2: I'm going to is that, like, I come from my community,
Speaker 2: we black folks, we'd be all around and now y'all
Speaker 2: are scattering from me. Now I'm kryptonite. Y'all don't want
Speaker 2: to be around me. It hurt my feelings, like you
Speaker 2: can't imagine. I was like what And so I had
Speaker 2: never dated outside my race until that point and never
Speaker 2: dated outside my race. But now I'm on a show,
Speaker 2: I'm with all these white cast mates. I am feeling
Speaker 2: alone and isolated. And they say, well, if you got
Speaker 2: to go to the white gay clubs, because those are
Speaker 2: the ones that are accepting you to come in. And
Speaker 2: this is not bullshit. Anybody will tell you them. Club
Speaker 2: said this, nigga ain't coming in no more. So the
Speaker 2: white clubs were the white girls were like this. They
Speaker 2: were like, yeah, girl, coming.
Speaker 1: To round because the fingers says, first of all, he's
Speaker 1: not lying. And because we're the same age in two
Speaker 1: thousand and three, in the in the in the that decade,
Speaker 1: for sure, it wasn't safe to be out. And are
Speaker 1: you mean to tell me you want my mama and
Speaker 1: my day back at home to see me on cameras
Speaker 1: in the club, in the club in Atlanta, Hey they Philly,
Speaker 1: hey day, all those things. So the white gay experience
Speaker 1: is vastly different because listen, when it comes to black households,
Speaker 1: it's the church.
Speaker 2: It's a church.
Speaker 1: We get kicked off the house. No I'm not saying
Speaker 1: white boys don't either, but it's grossly different our experience.
Speaker 1: And I never knew that you were sort of unfortunately
Speaker 1: forced to partake in the gay white spaces because.
Speaker 2: Because I was told you can't come back to our clubs,
Speaker 2: you had a camera on you, and and so the
Speaker 2: when I went to these gay spaces, I couldn't deal.
Speaker 2: So I found the one Puerto Rican that acted black
Speaker 2: that was and that's what that's what I went for.
Speaker 2: I was like, who in here? Like a black guy?
Speaker 2: Who in here? And so I found a Puerto Rican
Speaker 2: dude who's from Philly that was like yo, yo yo,
Speaker 2: not you know, like whatever, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: and so that was the first time I ever dated.
Speaker 2: But I'm also, as you know this, I'm one of
Speaker 2: these monogamous girls. Once I get into a relationship, baby,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to make it work. And so now the
Speaker 2: real world ended and I'm continuing the relationship, and you know,
Speaker 2: that's that's we I still was only going to black clubs,
Speaker 2: but like you know, now this narrative had come out
Speaker 2: where like it was like, you know, he don't like
Speaker 2: black boys, and I'm like, that's not the truth.
Speaker 1: Well let's go there.
Speaker 2: Oh you want to go there, Let's go there. Let's
Speaker 2: go there.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the perfect segue talk show host. The
Speaker 1: thing is this, you have a reputation where the gay
Speaker 1: black community feel like you are whitewashed. They feel like
Speaker 1: you don't date other gay black men, You only day
Speaker 1: white men, you love being in white spaces. And I'm listen,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen a lot of conversation about that
Speaker 1: on social media where people do feel like Karamo is
Speaker 1: one of those black gay male celebrities that once they
Speaker 1: make it they start to date white. What are your
Speaker 1: thoughts on this perception that the community has of you.
Speaker 2: They ain't wrong, They're not wrong. I would feel the
Speaker 2: same exact way. I think that there is a lack
Speaker 2: of fucking representation in Hollywood of gay black men being together.
Speaker 2: And as much as I wanted to add to that
Speaker 2: and be something like what we see now with Queen,
Speaker 2: I want to be that. You know what I mean,
Speaker 2: But you also can't help sometimes who fall in love with.
Speaker 2: But as you know, as my friend, I'm always in
Speaker 2: black spaces. I'm not just with the white girls. I'm
Speaker 2: always with black folks. I'm all like, I love my people.
Speaker 2: And as you also know, I date black men just
Speaker 2: so happens that they're public only picks up on the
Speaker 2: ones when they not my race. Like I am in relation.
Speaker 2: I'm in a relation.
Speaker 1: Do you guys you want to tell me you already
Speaker 1: know I'm in a relationship now with I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's but I do understand.
Speaker 2: This is like when people come out here and they're
Speaker 2: defensive about that. I'm never gonna be defensive because I
Speaker 2: get it. Like, yeah, if I if I was sitting
Speaker 2: at home, I would think the exact same thing. I
Speaker 2: would think the exact goddamn same thing. And I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna lie. When I'm in spaces with other gay black men,
Speaker 2: people who are slipties that you know, I bring it up.
Speaker 2: I'm always the one that makes the uncomfortable topic like oh,
Speaker 2: ain't nobody in here like and usually I'm the blackest
Speaker 2: in that room. No shade to some of them. But
Speaker 2: but I understand why, and there needs to be more
Speaker 2: representation and that's the point blank. But I will tell
Speaker 2: you this, like, it's my love for black gay man
Speaker 2: has never changed and will never die down. I love us.
Speaker 2: I am so deeply attracted to us, and that's just
Speaker 2: what it is. And I know that the so it's
Speaker 2: only been three but because it was at the height
Speaker 2: of my fame, Yeah, it just seems like that's it
Speaker 2: because in between when I'm dating you don't get those
Speaker 2: when a show's not on, and then I break up
Speaker 2: and so it is what it is, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I also think this, first of all, I
Speaker 1: love it accountability of you being like, no, I get it.
Speaker 1: I'm not dumb. I'm aware.
Speaker 2: Anybody who don't say that they get it. I mean,
Speaker 2: who don't say it is a stupid like, I get it,
Speaker 2: and it is a problem. It is a fucking problem.
Speaker 2: But also on top of this, and this islet's be real,
Speaker 2: there are also profound, beautiful black day couples that outlets
Speaker 2: won't cover, Like they don't invite them. There's so many,
Speaker 2: and the carpenters who don't invite them, the magazines won't
Speaker 2: put them in, and so there's this layer of homophobia
Speaker 2: and toxicity, and that even goes for the black outlets,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like they won't put on
Speaker 2: on certain people. They won't and so there should be
Speaker 2: more representation, you know what I mean. Maybe my next relationship,
Speaker 2: I'll be open with it and y'all get some representation.
Speaker 1: You are currently dating a black man, you know him? Yes,
Speaker 1: I know him. I recently ran into you guys, Yes,
Speaker 1: and I was first of all gagged. And I didn't
Speaker 1: gag because you use of the black man, because I
Speaker 1: know you, I know you they black man like behind
Speaker 1: the scenes, we know a lot about each other, so
Speaker 1: I understood why they say that to un That's why
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said this yourself, because we didn't
Speaker 1: talk about this before the interview, I also understood, like, no,
Speaker 1: I get bother saying it because obviously when you were
Speaker 1: in those relationship, they were public, it.
Speaker 2: Was at the height. And then also on top of that,
Speaker 2: I was on a white show and that was like
Speaker 2: that was Remember I just went from a black show
Speaker 2: your show. I literally went from your show, yes too,
Speaker 2: queer eye.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: So I went from a black show to a white show,
Speaker 2: white proc show. And now all of a sudden, it's
Speaker 2: like at the same time, oh, you gotta because when
Speaker 2: I was on your black show and I was dating
Speaker 2: a white guy, yes, no one questioned if I like
Speaker 2: black people.
Speaker 1: It was never a question. And you and you weren't
Speaker 1: hiding him from I wasn't him covered and we covered it,
Speaker 1: but no one questioned.
Speaker 2: Then compound that with me being on a white show.
Speaker 2: They was like, oh, this nigga don't like us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like you said, then your the next relationship
Speaker 1: was with the latino Latino Yeah yeah, and it was.
Speaker 1: And the thing is you publicized it on social media.
Speaker 1: That's it, and and that's and that's why it became
Speaker 1: this thing. But no, you are dating a black man,
Speaker 1: and you can tell me when to stop because I'm
Speaker 1: not going to reveal his identity. That's your story to tell.
Speaker 1: He is a celebrity, I am dating a celebrity. And
Speaker 1: I wasn't gagging like you were the black man. I
Speaker 1: was gagging because of his identity. So after I gagged
Speaker 1: and I said this to the buff of you guys,
Speaker 1: I said, oh, bitch, hop to break the motherfucking internet
Speaker 1: because you two are such a beautiful couple, and I
Speaker 1: it makes sense to me. It makes sense to me.
Speaker 1: He is I've always said this about about him to
Speaker 1: the too people. He is a sweetheart. And he and
Speaker 1: I aren't like the best of friends or anything, but
Speaker 1: when you are in these spaces, you run into the
Speaker 1: same people. And what I will always say about that man,
Speaker 1: I would be on the red carps doing my thing
Speaker 1: and he would be he would be like, and I'd
Speaker 1: be like, Hey, he'd like you good, like I'm great.
Speaker 1: He'd like, you know, tell my friends and say hi,
Speaker 1: mut your friends. And he's always just been a sweet heart.
Speaker 1: And I and I and I know you have had
Speaker 1: experiences being unlucky in love. Yes, do you think he's
Speaker 1: the one?
Speaker 2: I know? I'm one hundred percent sure I could get emotional.
Speaker 2: I've never I've met my equal, and it is it's
Speaker 2: powerful when you meet someone who you feel one hundred
Speaker 2: percent safe with, you feel one hundred percent secure with
Speaker 2: who you you can just trust with your heart because
Speaker 2: you know they are just a great human being and
Speaker 2: they get everything. You know. It's just it's special. It's
Speaker 2: pretty amazing and so and that's the reason why we're
Speaker 2: taking it slow and not you know, not taking it slow.
Speaker 2: We don't taking it as low. We are deep in love.
Speaker 2: But while we are not publicly yet because we don't
Speaker 2: want comments. We you know what I mean, and so
Speaker 2: we are. We are protecting the love we have because
Speaker 2: you know, I do believe this is gonna be my husband.
Speaker 2: I believe this is gonna be my forever person. I
Speaker 2: feel it every single day. You know, we don't have
Speaker 2: any arguments. Everything is just easy. And not saying that
Speaker 2: we don't have discussions, but everything is just easy. Us
Speaker 2: get each other. It's constant laughter, it's constant love, it's
Speaker 2: just constant everything.
Speaker 1: As much as I do believe that the world deserves
Speaker 1: representation in all forms, as your friend, I will selfishly say,
Speaker 1: keep it quiet as long as you can. You know,
Speaker 1: what I mean, like, because I what I what I witnessed.
Speaker 1: I was like I said, I I think he's the
Speaker 1: one because because the thing is this, You're such a
Speaker 1: beautiful spirit, and so is he. He's, he's, he's he's
Speaker 1: such a sweetheart. I just can't keep saying.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll give you the exclusive. I am dating someone
Speaker 2: and his name is Wayne Brady. I'm a dating Wayne Brady. No, Dad,
Speaker 2: I'm not going with I'm making with John. I love
Speaker 2: Wayne Brady. He's one of the most talent. It's not
Speaker 2: like we're not it's not like we're hiding.
Speaker 1: You're not hiding.
Speaker 2: We go, we go out, we do whatever. You know
Speaker 2: what I mean. We were together, we hold hands everywhere where.
Speaker 2: You know. It's just that once the public gets involved,
Speaker 2: they want to, you know, things just you know, and
Speaker 2: I just want to protect my I'm doing. I'm following Dana, Okay, Dana,
Speaker 2: I'm following data. Okay, Dana.
Speaker 1: Is the goat.
Speaker 2: The goat.
Speaker 1: They talked and said, that's my son of the rick.
Speaker 2: Okay, we didn't know. She said, that's my children.
Speaker 1: That is my wife I met. I met her wife recently.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Larry Simms yeah, he does her hair,
Speaker 1: Gabrielle Union. He's iconic, iconic. Larry Sens is fucking iconic.
Speaker 1: Larry Sims was like, you know this Dana's wife. And
Speaker 1: I was like, and she was like hey, and I said,
Speaker 1: come my podcast.
Speaker 2: She said, bitch, just I love watching it, but Carlos
Speaker 2: leave you alone. Bah. Can I just say one more thing?
Speaker 2: I hate that I always keep preaching on this, but
Speaker 2: Dana is somebody else who people forget, like though she's
Speaker 2: never walked into spaces not herself, meaning like the meeting,
Speaker 2: I've only heard people I know, producers of work. She
Speaker 2: walks in as herself, and that makes her even more powerful,
Speaker 2: because y'all girls are just catching on. But she has
Speaker 2: been her authentic self in every space she's walked into,
Speaker 2: and she's powerful. She's amazing.
Speaker 1: I was an intern at the View and she was
Speaker 1: promoting whatever blockbuster movie she was doing at the time.
Speaker 1: And she did her thing, and she got her dressing
Speaker 1: room and I had to walk her out. Mama had
Speaker 1: on a sweatsuit, her hair back in a ponytailer, and
Speaker 1: she said, so what you're about to get into?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 4: And I said that the original trade she was with
Speaker 4: other women, who are you know whatever?
Speaker 1: You know, I would say, now lesbian is And to
Speaker 1: your point, she wasn't hiding it. She was just like,
Speaker 1: this is my life if and I have the right
Speaker 1: to tell you're not so listen. I love that you're
Speaker 1: you're falling.
Speaker 2: In love and not falling. It's already done. No, it's done,
Speaker 2: it's done. It's done. I'm telling you've seen us, you
Speaker 2: know it's together. I'm I'm confident. I'm confident that I am.
Speaker 1: I feel like this is it. I do feel like
Speaker 1: he's the one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is. We are. We align on everything. We
Speaker 2: the way that we feel about our futures. You know, kids,
Speaker 2: you know every single thing. It just everything aligns. Families,
Speaker 2: everything just aligned. And so I'm just like, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: I do want to get into the next Beteen.
Speaker 2: You know, I still talk to every castmate on that show.
Speaker 2: You do.
Speaker 1: I know you been Claudia. You and Claudia met on
Speaker 1: set and became tight.
Speaker 2: Claudia needs to have five shows on air, and I
Speaker 2: cannot wait for that comeback because y'all girls played the
Speaker 2: kiff all over and over again of how that was
Speaker 2: the only one who could go toe to toe with
Speaker 2: Needy leaks. Y'all are missing out on good television by
Speaker 2: not having her on. Okay, y'all need to start petitions
Speaker 2: to put Claudia Jordan back in every show. You know
Speaker 2: what I mean. You've tried, You've done it.
Speaker 1: Oh. I'll go on record saying this about Claudia Jordan.
Speaker 1: She to me is a prime example of someone that
Speaker 1: I feel like, if you want to make a good show,
Speaker 1: get her on it. You guys should be petitioning Claudia
Speaker 1: Jordan to be back on Atlanta Housewise to make the
Speaker 1: show great, because you need somebody who is fearless, comedic,
Speaker 1: her comedic timing her fearlessness. She's gorgeous to look at.
Speaker 1: She tells you all her business. She has so many
Speaker 1: amazing old Hollywood tales, and she to me, is like
Speaker 1: Kenya Moore. And that's why I find it's so strange
Speaker 1: when it comes to some other people on social media
Speaker 1: and some of the girls on TV, whereas like y'all
Speaker 1: don't want a good show, I feel like Claudia Jordan
Speaker 1: is the most underrated reality Sorry ever, I agree with you.
Speaker 2: On top of that, when we were on Next fifteen
Speaker 2: something with her character that has always stayed the same.
Speaker 2: And the reason that I'm close with everybody is that.
Speaker 2: But Claudius particularly is she is one of these people
Speaker 2: who is such a woman of her word and will
Speaker 2: love you to success, which is sorry, girl, but you
Speaker 2: picked the wrong man, sister. But and I say this
Speaker 2: to use this also example for other people. She loves
Speaker 2: people's success. She's so committed to saying I'm loyal, loyal
Speaker 2: by fault and like when our loyalty because when you
Speaker 2: read somebody who's also equally loyal, it works. But when
Speaker 2: you have that big of a heart like she does,
Speaker 2: you end up finding people who want to take advantage
Speaker 2: of that. And I always say when people when I
Speaker 2: see girlfriends who are with men who are just using
Speaker 2: them because they know this woman is gonna love them
Speaker 2: to success, I always say, run because he's gonna deplete you.
Speaker 2: He's gonna take everything he can, and then he's gonna
Speaker 2: walk away. Claudie is not the first she walks away.
Speaker 2: She's strong, but her nature on the next fifteen was
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna guide you because again, like I said,
Speaker 2: this was the first reality show since the Real World,
Speaker 2: this is the black cast. This show everyone was successful.
Speaker 2: Let me give you a little bit of tea. You
Speaker 2: know this already. So I was living in the small
Speaker 2: apartment with my kids, and you know, they all have
Speaker 2: fancy ass homes and mansions and Bentley's all of them,
Speaker 2: the whole cast, Laura go vad you know, Benzino, Tiffany,
Speaker 2: they all had, Jennifer, they all had They was rich. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm working on a social worker salary. So baby, I'm
Speaker 2: in my two bedroom and my little pee peeple little whatever.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, it ain't it ain't pumping.
Speaker 2: I had to ask a friend to use their home
Speaker 2: to film in you remember, I do not because the
Speaker 2: camera crew couldn't fit my partner. But Claudia was so like,
Speaker 2: it don't matter who you are, you're gonna be the
Speaker 2: most successful. She just loved me. She just loved on
Speaker 2: top of me and being like, just no, it's okay,
Speaker 2: you you just be you. You are great, You're gonna be.
Speaker 2: She just loved on me and said and guided me
Speaker 2: in a way that I'm like, And I've heard other
Speaker 2: people on other shows said she does the same thing
Speaker 2: for them.
Speaker 1: She does the same No, she I've been privy to it.
Speaker 1: She does. She does, and I feel like she gets
Speaker 1: the bad rap. But when it when it came to
Speaker 1: you on next fifteen, I said to the producers, I said,
Speaker 1: because I didn't have had any money, no, no, no, but
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you what you had. I literally said
Speaker 1: this to them. I say, he wants to the most.
Speaker 2: Oh I did? I did?
Speaker 1: I said, I know that there's a there's a look
Speaker 1: that someone has and listen not to blow smoke up
Speaker 1: your ass. It's a look, Beyonce has I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? It's it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a look where you know this person wants it more
Speaker 1: than anybody. And that was you. You were always nice to
Speaker 1: the crew. You wanted it more. And I remember one
Speaker 1: of your cast members said to you at the time, girl,
Speaker 1: you got the least followers here, and maybe two years
Speaker 1: later you did cry and you surpassed all of their
Speaker 1: following times two.
Speaker 2: And you no.
Speaker 1: No, I will always say to the world, I'm not
Speaker 1: surprised by your success. And when Kray was auditioning, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you know this your position in getting
Speaker 1: that gig, do you realize similar to Carrie Washington getting scandal,
Speaker 1: how every black actress in Hollywood wanted the role of
Speaker 1: Olivia Pope because it was the first time since Diane
Speaker 1: Carrol that a black woman was going to start on
Speaker 1: a drama network television show. So every black actress wanted
Speaker 1: that show. When it came to Karai, every black man
Speaker 1: who whether they put a candle on a shelf and said,
Speaker 1: I'm materior designer. Where did they they? Grandma had Church,
Speaker 1: I'm a stylist. Every gay black man in Hollywood, Atlanta,
Speaker 1: New York City? Do you know this? They all auditioned
Speaker 1: for the show.
Speaker 2: I do well because I came in last. I came
Speaker 2: in late. I came in late for that show. So
Speaker 2: another story about my casting. My cast is always unique.
Speaker 2: So they had already been casting Queri for a year
Speaker 2: and they were at now the final thirty or whatever.
Speaker 2: I don't remember what the final number was. I didn't
Speaker 2: know anybody. I didn't know what existed. I know that
Speaker 2: Queri was saying. I didn't know nothing about it. And
Speaker 2: I was sitting in bed watching Watch What Happens Live,
Speaker 2: and Andy Cohen had Carson Kresley on, who was in the
Speaker 2: original Queri, and they Carson was like being shady and
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, they're bringing back Queer Eye and they're
Speaker 2: not bringing us back. They're doing a new cast. And
Speaker 2: I said, a new cast of gay people. Bitch. I
Speaker 2: gotta be on that, bitch. I just got off for
Speaker 2: the next fifteen Baby, I got to be on that show, okay.
Speaker 2: And I called my agent and he had said they're
Speaker 2: done casting. They are now in chemistry test. This is
Speaker 2: where they bring the top thirty that they want together
Speaker 2: to see out of that. And I said, You've got
Speaker 2: to figure out how to get me in there. You
Speaker 2: gotta If you get me in that, I promise you
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get it. And he was like, oh, you
Speaker 2: can promise you're gonna get it. And I said, I
Speaker 2: promise you, I'm gonna get it if you put me
Speaker 2: in there. And he found a friend that he knew
Speaker 2: who's in the casting environment, Gretchen, who's one of the
Speaker 2: most amazing women, and you know Gretchen, and Gretchen said,
Speaker 2: we will let him just get on the Zoom, but
Speaker 2: we've already done. They let me get on a zoom. Baby,
Speaker 2: I knew I'd already done the research because I'm a
Speaker 2: very well researched person. Any job I'm gonna do, you
Speaker 2: have to know who's coming in, what they're looking for,
Speaker 2: know the players people don't see. People forget And I
Speaker 2: try to teach young people when you're talking about Hollywood,
Speaker 2: understand that it's called show business. You have to pay
Speaker 2: attention to the business side as much you paid attention
Speaker 2: to the show side. That's why you're successful. You're a
Speaker 2: great showman. You know how to entertain, you know how
Speaker 2: to host, you do it all. But baby, the business
Speaker 2: side baby equally important. Baby, and people forget as talent,
Speaker 2: especially that if you don't know the players when you
Speaker 2: walk in a room, if you don't know what they
Speaker 2: were looking for, if you haven't read every article, then
Speaker 2: you're going to find yourself. So I saw that culture
Speaker 2: also had an opportunity for me to make it what
Speaker 2: I wanted. So I went in there about mental health.
Speaker 2: I talked to her. She was like, you know what,
Speaker 2: They're never going to cast you, but I'm gonna bring
Speaker 2: you to the chemistry test. I said, bitch that you
Speaker 2: don't fucked up now because the door, baby. That has
Speaker 2: always been my philosophy, like, don't let me in, baby,
Speaker 2: don't let me, I'm moving in. This is my ship.
Speaker 2: This is gonna be my ship now, okay. And I'm
Speaker 2: a squatter bitch. I'm squatter bitch. I'm coming in but
Speaker 2: not taking me out. And so I got to that
Speaker 2: that chemistry test and they only I mean, it was
Speaker 2: like they were at the last week like that. That
Speaker 2: was like the last two weeks where they were going
Speaker 2: to pick the cast.
Speaker 1: Do you remember how many other black men were there
Speaker 1: in the room.
Speaker 2: It wasn't a lot. And this is what we talk
Speaker 2: about again. I think there was like six of us,
Speaker 2: five of.
Speaker 1: Us because they knew they maybe maybe maybe one.
Speaker 2: Exactly maybe one was a majority white man, and they said,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe you know what I mean. I think
Speaker 2: there was a couple of Asian guys, you know, you know,
Speaker 2: I think ten was the only Kashmirian or I don't
Speaker 2: think there was. For anybody who watches the square, I
Speaker 2: don't think they, you know, had it. But I knew
Speaker 2: once I got in that room. I said, bitch, I'm
Speaker 2: getting this. I'm getting this. And so she likely said
Speaker 2: you'll probably go out a round one. But I'm excited
Speaker 2: for them to see because they cast other projects. So
Speaker 2: I'm glad they could see you. And this is why
Speaker 2: on Aggretchen again, people if y'all don't know, if you're
Speaker 2: trying to be in show business, I just we just
Speaker 2: gave you a name. We both said, we love y'all.
Speaker 2: Better go do y'all.
Speaker 1: Research, child, They ain't gonna do it because they expect
Speaker 1: things to be handed to don't. We didn't grow up
Speaker 1: on YouTube, Google. Okay, you don't have so many resources.
Speaker 1: But not complaining.
Speaker 2: About listen, I have faith, y'all, go I have faith.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, do it.
Speaker 2: But she said they're gonna probably kick you out after
Speaker 2: round one, you know. And I was like, I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: and she just she's prepping me, like they already have
Speaker 2: their favorites. They're going to kick you out, you know. Like,
Speaker 2: and so I got on the show. I was I
Speaker 2: got on the show. There was no kicking out. No,
Speaker 2: there's no kicking out.
Speaker 1: I remember, we never talked about this. So at the time,
Speaker 1: I had an overall deal with the production company, and
Speaker 1: this was the biggest show that company had at that
Speaker 1: time in terms of it going to two series on Netflix.
Speaker 2: It was the first nonscriptive that yes to the original Yeah,
Speaker 2: j Levy.
Speaker 1: Shout out to gen Levy who's now at Amazon. Genius Woman.
Speaker 2: She is genius another another name go look up.
Speaker 1: And Genius Love. She also greenlst starling Hollywood with Jason
Speaker 1: Madare like she's all about representation.
Speaker 2: She was Jen Levy, and I honor her as part
Speaker 2: of the reason why I think they saw me because
Speaker 2: she was like, yes, she was in that room and
Speaker 2: she said that one right there.
Speaker 1: I believe you. That is she walks the walk and
Speaker 1: talks and talks and she cares about representation. Yes, your
Speaker 1: name came up because I'm I'm I'm I'm in the
Speaker 1: rooms at the company at the time, and they said
Speaker 1: Carrama Brown, I said, And I remember telling them they said,
Speaker 1: do you know him? I said, I actually do. I said,
Speaker 1: you would not be disappointed he is, I say, he
Speaker 1: is the consummate professional and he's good at his job.
Speaker 1: And once again another advice to the young people out
Speaker 1: there or even older people like there's people in general,
Speaker 1: don't be burning bridges if you don't have to, because
Speaker 1: you never know who else is in the room that
Speaker 1: can also vouch for you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, you know what I mean, because if this
Speaker 2: bridge would have been burned that room. You could have
Speaker 2: been like, yeah, it's not gonna work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I remember being like, no, he's the one.
Speaker 1: He's the one that show instantly became an international hint
Speaker 1: excuse meal, like international Query on Netflix is seen in
Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety countries. How did you deal with
Speaker 1: that fast track of fame?
Speaker 2: It was fast track? But again, my life is this
Speaker 2: weird dichotomy because of how queer I was. There weren't
Speaker 2: a lot of the black folks that watched it, Like
Speaker 2: like I still walk in his faces and people will
Speaker 2: be like, we know him from his talk show. He's
Speaker 2: on a show called Queerrac. They have no idea about
Speaker 2: Queer Eye, And so it was it was weird because
Speaker 2: love us what show is that. I'll be like, bitch,
Speaker 2: ho goamis from it. They do not have no idea
Speaker 2: what it is. And but so so it was weird
Speaker 2: because like I walk in I go to Japan, I
Speaker 2: go to China. I was in the jungle and Bali
Speaker 2: and the guy cutting some tree or bark he looked
Speaker 2: up and he was like quere i, And I'm like, bitch,
Speaker 2: I am in the jungle of Bali. That's the power
Speaker 2: of Netflix. I will be in France, I will be
Speaker 2: in Australia. I have a fan base wherever I go
Speaker 2: and I'm so thankful for them because they keep me going.
Speaker 2: But at the flip side, there wasn't a lot of
Speaker 2: black folks coming up to me. I wasn't invited to
Speaker 2: black events like I like I after okay, this is real,
Speaker 2: after next fifteen. One of the jobs you got me
Speaker 2: from that was me hosting the NAACP Awards. That was Carlos.
Speaker 2: It was my first like correspondent job. You made me
Speaker 2: the correspondent baby. Okay, actually Couch might have shown me,
Speaker 2: but you actually made me a correspondent. If you said
Speaker 2: TV one and WACP, y'all gotta use him and and
Speaker 2: I loved it. It was I was so excited to
Speaker 2: be at the NAACP Image Awards. I have never been
Speaker 2: invited back to lac ANDWE Awards to this day. And
Speaker 2: this this is no shape to NLACP, NAACP. I love them,
Speaker 2: I support them. They do amazing work. But that's what
Speaker 2: I'm saying with queer eye. So though I'm popular, the
Speaker 2: people that I want to see me don't see me
Speaker 2: no more. They're not seeing me. We would get all
Speaker 2: these outlets and like I remember, we started getting in
Speaker 2: Vanity Fair and GQ and all these things. At l
Speaker 2: we were on the cover of all We were on
Speaker 2: the cover of these magazines, like it was. It was amazing.
Speaker 2: And I kept saying like, hey, do you think so
Speaker 2: and so would want to talk to me? And they
Speaker 2: were like nope, And it was a it was And
Speaker 2: I'm not complaining. Let me be very real because somebody
Speaker 2: go wat says some thing. I'm complaining. Baby. I'm so
Speaker 2: thankful for my success, but I was also heartbroken that,
Speaker 2: like you know, the people I wanted to see me
Speaker 2: in this success didn't see me. Didn't see me at all.
Speaker 2: I've never been invited to the BET Awards. I've never
Speaker 2: I've been denied from both carpets. What this is crazy
Speaker 2: to me Because me and my partner right now we
Speaker 2: talk about this. He's always like, baby, what do you mean.
Speaker 2: I'm like, maybe they have never invited me. I've went
Speaker 2: to the Emmys, the Gravits, the Oscars, I've been a
Speaker 2: bandy fair. I've never I have gotten denied to the
Speaker 2: BT carpet several times. My papaceys have been told we
Speaker 2: do not have space for him, and this is the
Speaker 2: god on the truth and then on the flip side,
Speaker 2: I'll get invited to like this white event, but I
Speaker 2: understand it's because Queer Eye had that type of success
Speaker 2: and so those individuals saw, you know, value in me.
Speaker 1: Do you think a part of that?
Speaker 2: So I understanding to say it was hard because I'm
Speaker 2: caught apaulic success and I'm loving it, but at the
Speaker 2: same time, I'm being denied where I really want to be.
Speaker 1: When you were the only black person, we know what
Speaker 1: it feels like to be the only in the room.
Speaker 1: Was that painful for you? With microaggression?
Speaker 2: And one hundred percent, one hundred percent, there's not even
Speaker 2: a thing you and I talked before we got here,
Speaker 2: and you know, you know what I just talked about
Speaker 2: my People magazine, my cover story, and you got to
Speaker 2: see an advanced screening. You have to see an advanced screening,
Speaker 2: and you saw the thing where they you know, they
Speaker 2: used the cop to pull me over and did it
Speaker 2: as a trick, you know, like anybody who doesn't know.
Speaker 2: In episode two of season one, we were helping a
Speaker 2: police officer, that's who we were supposed to make over.
Speaker 2: But before we got to the person we were making over,
Speaker 2: a cop stopped up and I was doing driving and
Speaker 2: I don't have my license because I left it at home.
Speaker 2: And I told them I didn't want to drive, and
Speaker 2: they they pushed me to drive. They said you must.
Speaker 2: We were an hour late that day in production, an
Speaker 2: hour day. My former cast me, Bobby has confirmed this
Speaker 2: an hour late in production because I said I don't
Speaker 2: want to drive. I don't have my license, and they
Speaker 2: said you gotta drive, and I said fine, got in
Speaker 2: the car and then we get pulled over and the
Speaker 2: stunt was let's trigger this black man in this front
Speaker 2: seat so that we can have an episode that we're
Speaker 2: going to have about blacks and a cop and whatever.
Speaker 2: And it won us our first semi, but it was
Speaker 2: also fucked up. And you said that when you saw
Speaker 2: the advanced screening, you turned to the other black person
Speaker 2: you was yes, and said what the fuck?
Speaker 1: We both were shocked by that, like what is this?
Speaker 1: And I had nothing to do with the show, obviously,
Speaker 1: but I remember watching it being like, this isn't entertainment.
Speaker 2: So when people asked me about the microaggressions that I
Speaker 2: have to deal with for ten years, I'm like, I
Speaker 2: don't even gotta pretend and tell y'all stuff behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: You can see what was on the show. Like, I
Speaker 2: don't even have to tell y'all what was behind the scenes,
Speaker 2: because you can see it on the show. And that's
Speaker 2: what I've been trying to show people like and the
Speaker 2: things we go through, and this is why I give
Speaker 2: you your flowers and any black talent in this industry.
Speaker 2: The things we goddamn go through that you just have
Speaker 2: to smile because they tell you directly, I will not
Speaker 2: hire you, I'll replace you. They say it to you.
Speaker 2: It's not as if they even like having a chatter
Speaker 2: behind you. They tell you, damn to your face, I
Speaker 2: replace you. You're not worth anything. And that's what ten
Speaker 2: years of this show was like. And so though I
Speaker 2: had the most massive success, I was at so many
Speaker 2: points sad, depressed, down. It was a it was a
Speaker 2: train wreck of up and downs, train wreck, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. It was. It was it was a
Speaker 2: horrible time while also being the best time. Well, and
Speaker 2: that weird two the worst two things can be true.
Speaker 1: Two things can be true simon taneously and that's your experience.
Speaker 1: And I didn't know this until the people cover that
Speaker 1: you did. I had no idea that there was a
Speaker 1: sexual harassment claim on you.
Speaker 2: Yeah there was.
Speaker 1: Was it by a cast member or the identity was
Speaker 1: never revealed?
Speaker 2: No, it was, Oh I know exactly who it was.
Speaker 2: So a cast member and I had a little flirty situation,
Speaker 2: little situation going on, and one of the Toxic higher
Speaker 2: ups caught us leaving an apartment together and like you know,
Speaker 2: being a you know, a grown folks do whatever, hanging
Speaker 2: And they went to this cast member and said, hey,
Speaker 2: if you don't, if you don't say that he's harassing you,
Speaker 2: you're fired. And I don't know about any of this
Speaker 2: because I don't know that's happening this cast made. I
Speaker 2: just still don't know if they said yes or no.
Speaker 2: But what I do know is that Toxic executive took
Speaker 2: this to HR and then HR said called me and
Speaker 2: was like, hey, you know, you can't go to set
Speaker 2: because we've gotten a complaint that you're sexually harassing somebody.
Speaker 2: And I was like what they were like? I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm sexually harassing, Like I'm the father on the show.
Speaker 2: I don't do any of that. Like it killed me
Speaker 2: and look at me you got me eyes all watered
Speaker 2: up and shit because you just, uh, this is my
Speaker 2: first big show, after your show, after the next fifteen
Speaker 2: and now do opputune is going to be gone because
Speaker 2: someone's lying on me, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 2: so this now is in front of people, so the
Speaker 2: crew know that I've been called this sexual predator or
Speaker 2: whatever that may be. And I'm like, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. I was I was shocked. I
Speaker 2: was devastated. And so they told me who and so baby,
Speaker 2: I'm a stunt queen at the heart, Okay, I'm a
Speaker 2: stunt queen. Okay. So the minute they told me who
Speaker 2: I was allegedly sexually harassing, I said, oh, baby, let
Speaker 2: me send you every text, message, video, a photo that
Speaker 2: I have and you tell me if I'm sexual harassing.
Speaker 2: And they called me back and they said, we are
Speaker 2: so sorry that we even called you, and baby, it
Speaker 2: was dismissed. And as People Magazine and all the outlets
Speaker 2: have confirmed, they confirmed with Netflix that it was the
Speaker 2: dismissed that I was never But the problem was is
Speaker 2: that when I walked back to set, no one addressed it.
Speaker 2: No one addressed that that wasn't true. So now I'm
Speaker 2: walking into a space where now people are looking at
Speaker 2: the only black man as some type of predator, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, y'all not gonna say nothing, y'all not gonna
Speaker 2: tell these people this ain't true. Obviously people know it's
Speaker 2: not true because I'm still here and I was here
Speaker 2: for ten seasons, but people still haven't the fact it
Speaker 2: always has hurt my feelings knowing that there's possibly somebody
Speaker 2: in the back of their mind that thought that I
Speaker 2: could do something like that. And I know I shouldn't care,
Speaker 2: but like it just it's always killed me that somebody
Speaker 2: in the back of their mind could think I could
Speaker 2: do something like that. And I said, I but bullshit
Speaker 2: I was putting up with, like could you imagine if
Speaker 2: I said, Carlos King stole all this money, and then
Speaker 2: it's found that you didn't steal the money, and then
Speaker 2: I don't tell nobody you didn't stell the money. So
Speaker 2: now hearverybody around here thinking you stole the money.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that executive did that to you?
Speaker 2: Why I know why the executive wasn't in their right mind.
Speaker 2: I'll leave it at that. Okay, they weren't in their
Speaker 2: right mind and shouldn't have been on set, and so
Speaker 2: you know you're not in your right mind, you're doing
Speaker 2: things that are erratic, and that's It's these situations where
Speaker 2: I when people have asked me about my former cast
Speaker 2: I have always said that I respect them. They are
Speaker 2: hard workers, and I actually do wish one day that
Speaker 2: the six of us can get back together. I've healed.
Speaker 2: I'm willing to own any parts, you know, like anything.
Speaker 2: If they ever came to me right now and said,
Speaker 2: you know what you made me feel this way, I
Speaker 2: would own it so quickly. That's just my personality. I
Speaker 2: would tell them I'm sorry, and I wish they could
Speaker 2: do the same for me, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: because we were all all in this situation together. And
Speaker 2: what kills me is that, Like since my People magazine cover,
Speaker 2: I've seen one particularly given interview where they were surprised
Speaker 2: and I'm like, surprised about what it broke my I
Speaker 2: just want to be like you surprised about what what
Speaker 2: you're surprised about, Like, don't let me, don't let me,
Speaker 2: don't let this stuff queen to me. Come on, No
Speaker 2: girls are lucky. But I went on this thing and
Speaker 2: did not say no names. I spoke on me and
Speaker 2: my truth because I'm one of those I'm one of
Speaker 2: those girls. I'm gonna speak on me in my situation.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna tell y'all tea. But you surprised, baby, don't.
Speaker 2: Don't let me go down the list of things and
Speaker 2: see if you're surprised about that pissed me off. But
Speaker 2: even through me being upset for like five seconds, I
Speaker 2: was still like, you know what, you were still hurt.
Speaker 2: You were still hurt. That's what the problem. Don't realize
Speaker 2: that we all experienced the thing. So like when we
Speaker 2: talk about that car situation, I wasn't the only one
Speaker 2: in that car. There was five other people for other
Speaker 2: people who didn't know, you know what I mean, who
Speaker 2: were equally affected by that, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And whether they processed the same way I process that.
Speaker 2: You're equally affected the thing I'm talking about, that this
Speaker 2: sexual thing. Though yes I was on the there was
Speaker 2: another person that got thrown into something they didn't have
Speaker 2: no reason to get thrown into that caused tension. It
Speaker 2: wasn't just one person me getting affected. It was all
Speaker 2: of us. And I wish that one day we could
Speaker 2: come together and do a healing session and go through it,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And one thing I have always heard about the CURI
Speaker 1: cast that I never once called you about because I
Speaker 1: was sort of like, if he needs me, he'll call me.
Speaker 1: I can't confirm. I've always heard that in real life,
Speaker 1: you guys were not getting along. I heard that you
Speaker 1: guys were similar to the cast of Desperate Housewives, where
Speaker 1: it was sort of like who's the star of the cast,
Speaker 1: if that person gets more screen time, if that person
Speaker 1: is in the middle. This is a true story. I've
Speaker 1: heard that, like Terry Hatcher was deemed as like the
Speaker 1: star of the show and the famous Vanity fair cover.
Speaker 1: They were like, she cannot be in the middle. I
Speaker 1: heard that when it came to the cast, a cry
Speaker 1: when it came to you, he can't be in the middle,
Speaker 1: he can't be the star, he can't be the star.
Speaker 1: I was told that directly, directly, And so like what I.
Speaker 2: Love about you, Carlos, is because you were in this
Speaker 2: industry and so you can confirm these things. Like so
Speaker 2: when people be like, what baby, you know this stuff?
Speaker 2: They they said who they star was. Some people believed
Speaker 2: it and then other people got told it, and the
Speaker 2: other people got told you are not it, and the
Speaker 2: black guy on the cast got told you are not
Speaker 2: it directly many times. Stay your place, stay in your lane.
Speaker 2: And I used to be hurt by that. The show
Speaker 2: was originally the slogan of the show was originally We're
Speaker 2: gonna turn Red States Pink. That was the original slog
Speaker 2: it was, and the show had was always supposed to
Speaker 2: be about funniness, like because that's what the original show
Speaker 2: was out, like, you know, like you know, we're gonna
Speaker 2: go in the house, we're gonna rip it up, and
Speaker 2: we're gonna tell you, like how to be a metrosexual,
Speaker 2: you know whatever. That's what it was always supposed to
Speaker 2: be about. And then I came in and I do
Speaker 2: what I do, which is always connect and get deeper.
Speaker 2: And I built a brand off of that, and people
Speaker 2: started having emotional reactions and the show started becoming emotional
Speaker 2: equally as emotional as it was funny. And I remember,
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, the campaign came out after I
Speaker 2: told to stop making people cry, stop getting deep. I'd
Speaker 2: been told all of that, screamed at the network came
Speaker 2: out and they switched the sloganto I'm not crying, you're crying,
Speaker 2: And I said, these bitches, baby, when I tell you
Speaker 2: the heat that rolls from my toes to that my head,
Speaker 2: you telling me every day that I am wrong, that
Speaker 2: I am the worst, that I should not be knowing, that,
Speaker 2: that you're gonna fire me for making somebody cry, and
Speaker 2: then bitch, your slogan is bitch, I'm not crying, you're crying.
Speaker 2: And now all of a sudden it is the promos
Speaker 2: have been cut around emotion and tears. I said, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: I see I knew right then and there how we're
Speaker 2: playing this. So you'll take what I can offer, but
Speaker 2: you're never gonna give me credit. You'll you'll you'll grab
Speaker 2: and take from me and give it, but you're not
Speaker 2: gonna give me the same things you given. And listen,
Speaker 2: I am not over here claiming by any means, because
Speaker 2: the cast that I work with are exceptional at what
Speaker 2: they do, exceptional, that them people are exceptional, exceptional, the
Speaker 2: best in the business. But that didn't mean that I
Speaker 2: wasn't equally exceptional. And it's hard when their greatness is
Speaker 2: being honored and mine is being told shut up.
Speaker 1: Were you all paid the same.
Speaker 2: We were all paid the same. So there was a
Speaker 2: favorite nation, there was a favorite nations. And that happened
Speaker 2: because we all had three of us had similar agents,
Speaker 2: so it made it easier, you know. But I always
Speaker 2: think to this day, did have you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Because I was the only one that came to that
Speaker 2: show with credits? You know, I was the only one
Speaker 2: that already had a name, the only one yet, Girl,
Speaker 2: y'all want to tell me that, girl, I'm not okay, okay.
Speaker 1: Girl, whatever looked at it that way, that's true, only one.
Speaker 2: And when y'all first started promoting it, all the things
Speaker 2: that went out, you put my name first because you
Speaker 2: needed them to say, think somebody was on the show.
Speaker 2: Got it, girl? But then once the show came out, girl,
Speaker 2: you won't do that no more. Okay, I got it.
Speaker 1: Were the og cro cast receptive of you guys?
Speaker 2: Yeah? They were fine. Okay, they were fine. What is
Speaker 2: funny is because Jay Rodriguez, who was on the original cast,
Speaker 2: recently just came out and said, thank you Cromer for
Speaker 2: speaking up. I experienced the same thing.
Speaker 1: On a whole different network, on a whole different cast.
Speaker 2: If it's the thing the reason I almost feeling the
Speaker 2: girl over there spelling t with Carlos. A disclaimer let
Speaker 2: me list my camera here A disclaimer. If you are
Speaker 2: coming on the Carlos King show, just know he is
Speaker 2: about to get you this feel every bit of tea
Speaker 2: that you wanted to speel and that you did not
Speaker 2: want to speel. Okay, just let you know comfor parent.
Speaker 2: See I didn't come on a publishists today. Bring your publicists,
Speaker 2: bring your manager, bring your mama, bring your cousin, bring
Speaker 2: bring bring the nigga, pick up your trash, bring everybody
Speaker 2: so they could all be like Carlos, stop it.
Speaker 1: I just act the classes. I love you and I
Speaker 1: appreciate that. And the thing is this, That's why I
Speaker 1: do get upset when listen, regardless of you being in
Speaker 1: white spaces dating white men like like you and I
Speaker 1: both agree on we both understand it. I also, though,
Speaker 1: imploy people. If you don't know this person personally, then
Speaker 1: try to have a little bit of discernment based on
Speaker 1: what they do for the community. You have always been
Speaker 1: there for the black and community. You have always been
Speaker 1: somebody who stood up for us. You lead with your
Speaker 1: blackness just because you made it doesn't mean that all
Speaker 1: the girl please. He was happy to be in the
Speaker 1: white spaces. He was happy to be there. This person,
Speaker 1: this person was happy to have a job. Do you
Speaker 1: guys not get like job? You've been the gap between
Speaker 1: real world and the Next fifteen. You were a social worker,
Speaker 1: you were making minimum wage. The Next Fifteen was on
Speaker 1: TV one. It wasn't a mainstream show. It lasted one season.
Speaker 1: You were still figuring things out. And I hate the
Speaker 1: fact that there's some people in our community who can't
Speaker 1: just celebrate one of us made it unless celebrate him.
Speaker 1: You know, I've always celebrated you. You have never changed.
Speaker 1: When you first bought your multimillion dollar home in La,
Speaker 1: this is my friend, he called, I have no pool party, bitch,
Speaker 1: come through. And I came through and it was other
Speaker 1: gay black people there. You've never whitewashed yourself at all.
Speaker 1: And I had no idea. I'm not gonna emotional, but
Speaker 1: I had no idea you were struggling because I was
Speaker 1: too busy celebrating you like he made it.
Speaker 2: Is your celebration, and so I thank you because I
Speaker 2: needed to celebrate, because, like I said, when you start
Speaker 2: to be honest about these things, you're going through. The
Speaker 2: only thing that kept me going was like people like you,
Speaker 2: who I know would celebrate me, and who I also knew,
Speaker 2: understood because you were in the trenches. You were in
Speaker 2: the trenches. I know what it was like for you
Speaker 2: to get these deals, to create these shows and put
Speaker 2: people on, and the struggles you had when people will
Speaker 2: come against you online for bullshit. I understand the struggles,
Speaker 2: and so your celebration made it easy because at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, this is what I say about
Speaker 2: black talent, It's not a lot of opportunities that go
Speaker 2: around for us. We try and we push and we
Speaker 2: try to make it and we doing our things, and
Speaker 2: I anytime somebody put something on, I'm gonna be the supporter,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna show up because there's not a lot of
Speaker 2: opportunities for us that when we get a job, bitch,
Speaker 2: we just be so happy to get the job. We'd
Speaker 2: be so happy to get the job. And you can't
Speaker 2: always choose what space that job is in, and you
Speaker 2: just have to And this is the thing is on
Speaker 2: a on a grande, a singular level. Black people understand
Speaker 2: that when you going to corporate corporate America, when you
Speaker 2: go on your blue collar job, whatever job it is.
Speaker 2: You understand, like you look around, ain't nobody else there,
Speaker 2: and you'd be like, God, damn it, but bitch, I
Speaker 2: gotta go to work every day because I can get
Speaker 2: my check. Now, I gotta deal with this shit. I
Speaker 2: gotta get my check, I gotta pay my bills. I
Speaker 2: gotta do the things and are I'm thankful your celebration.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: No, you can have it all the time. And as
Speaker 1: we sort of close in on that experience, obviously you
Speaker 1: know you stop doing press with Krai the final season the.
Speaker 2: Stunt Queen, because that's not Atlanta.
Speaker 1: Day's coming out there.
Speaker 2: Stop quin. I'm gonna say a note that Gail King
Speaker 2: ten minutes before stunt Okay, let's talk it.
Speaker 1: I love you for your transparency and honesty because this
Speaker 1: is everything. I listen. I'm on Instagram in between my
Speaker 1: workout sets at the gym, and Gail King is like, well,
Speaker 1: Carramos in here, he was supposed to be here. Your
Speaker 1: what we what we what we now learn is during
Speaker 1: the press run your your mother, which I mean I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna cry because to have someone's mom hears something
Speaker 1: that is against her son based on something that as
Speaker 1: a black mother immigrant my only boy, he made it.
Speaker 1: And you know black mamas they love when they see
Speaker 1: they son on TV. You know what I'm saying, They like,
Speaker 1: that's my baby, right. You know that she overheard conversations
Speaker 1: about her baby amongst your cast mates when she told
Speaker 1: you what was said, and you a mama's boy.
Speaker 2: Yes, fully, I protect that woman with all my heart.
Speaker 2: I'm a I'm a I'm a girl's gate. That'sir. You
Speaker 2: a girl's gate too, girls, Yes, but I love a woman. Okay,
Speaker 2: tag line. My mama crying. I couldn't.
Speaker 1: So she came to you crying, yes, and said what
Speaker 1: she said?
Speaker 2: I didn't know. She said, why didn't you tell me?
Speaker 2: And I was like, tell you what she's like that
Speaker 2: they don't like you and that just because the thing is,
Speaker 2: you have to understand I was also hiding this experience
Speaker 2: for my mother because I wasn't telling people because you can't,
Speaker 2: like unless you're in it like you are. It sounds
Speaker 2: like I'm complaining or that's the mindset I had, is
Speaker 2: that like you know, you receive it, you feel like
Speaker 2: I can't complain about this like and so I just
Speaker 2: couldn't say anything, and so I hit from even my
Speaker 2: own family, the experiences, the micro aggressions. They didn't know
Speaker 2: in their world. Life is great, Karma's life is great.
Speaker 2: They don't understand the ups and downs of depression and
Speaker 2: all that. And so when she said it, I felt
Speaker 2: first of all sad because oh my gosh, like the
Speaker 2: secrets out. I felt embarrassed, But then I felt pissed
Speaker 2: because I'm like, now you got my mama involved, and bitch,
Speaker 2: I can take a whole lot. I and this has
Speaker 2: been the story of my life. I can take on
Speaker 2: a whole lot. But bitch, when you start fucking with
Speaker 2: people I love, oh, it's over. It's over. It's like,
Speaker 2: that's the part of me, that's Scorpio's things that come out.
Speaker 2: You start fucking with people I love, who I ride with. Oh,
Speaker 2: it ain't playing that way, which is why I have,
Speaker 2: like I have long relationships with people because they know
Speaker 2: I'm righty or die. They know they call me you
Speaker 2: have the same way, call me I'm coming. I'm just
Speaker 2: showing up. And so that was the catalyst. I said, Oh,
Speaker 2: you got ma mama crime, bitch, fuck you?
Speaker 1: Did she tell you what they said? Exactly.
Speaker 2: I didn't ask. I was too embarrassed till this day.
Speaker 2: Oh no, don't care. And I don't care because for
Speaker 2: my own growth, my own growth, because I think a
Speaker 2: lot of times and this is a lesson for people,
Speaker 2: we feel like we need to know every detail so
Speaker 2: that we can like, what what's that detail gonna do
Speaker 2: for me? Mitch, I already know y'all was talking shit. Bitch,
Speaker 2: I don't even know what you were saying. Girl, figive
Speaker 2: a fuck, because on first of all, not gonna qualify
Speaker 2: it or defend it. So but what I do know
Speaker 2: is that the person you are, and that gives me
Speaker 2: all the knowledge I need to know how to move next,
Speaker 2: how to move out of the situation to grow. You
Speaker 2: un'er saying I know y'all full of shit, so bitch,
Speaker 2: I don't need to know. I don't even know the
Speaker 2: details of it, and people get boggled down. I need
Speaker 2: to know what you said, bitch, I don't know. You
Speaker 2: know how they made you feel, And I think that's
Speaker 2: where the shift is. Remember how they made you feel.
Speaker 2: Once you know how they made you feel, it don't
Speaker 2: matter what they said, because all you now is going
Speaker 2: to This is the problem with like, when we find
Speaker 2: that information out, if your self esteem is not strong enough,
Speaker 2: it will seep in and it will start to ruminate,
Speaker 2: and you'll ruminate over and it will start to affect
Speaker 2: your self esteem. And I see so many people who
Speaker 2: thought they were being empowered by finding out the information,
Speaker 2: and they end up allowing that loop to be to
Speaker 2: affect their self worth and how they move through the world.
Speaker 2: I don't need to know what they had said about me.
Speaker 2: What I need to know is how I was going
Speaker 2: to react out of that situation. And I reacted properly,
Speaker 2: you know, But you have to do what you gotta do,
Speaker 2: because I know if I would have said anything, they
Speaker 2: would have done what they've always done. They would have said,
Speaker 2: show up, you know, play your role, do what the
Speaker 2: fuck you gotta do. And again, you have to learn
Speaker 2: how to respond in a way that's going to empower
Speaker 2: you and help you to grow.
Speaker 1: And I listen on some real shit, I would have
Speaker 1: done it the same way you have because and not
Speaker 1: just solely the exit plan, more so like listen sticking
Speaker 1: through the sort of like Okay, I get it, we're
Speaker 1: not friends, we're coworkers. This is bigger than you and
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let any of you take me off
Speaker 1: of my trajectory because your career continue to catapult. You
Speaker 1: have a talk show. Congratulations on the multiple both seasons
Speaker 1: you had as the first gay person.
Speaker 2: To have mail because they ellen had it, but mail.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the first gay male to have a daytime talk show,
Speaker 1: and daytime talk is so difficult to even get.
Speaker 2: So do you have it?
Speaker 1: For multiple seasons? And again the next fifteen if you
Speaker 1: guys watched it. Your whole goal was I want to
Speaker 1: talk show that.
Speaker 2: Hold on this, Charlot, hold on, you brite this up.
Speaker 2: Hold on, this is the thing why this is so beautiful.
Speaker 2: I'm getting chills. Next, you brought former reality show stars
Speaker 2: together to see what they were gonna do with the
Speaker 2: next fifteen minutes of the career. That was the premise
Speaker 2: of the show, what are you gonna do with the
Speaker 2: next fifteen minutes of your career? And you said, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna give you all an opportunity to become talk show hosts.
Speaker 2: And Bitch, when I heard that, I said, bitch, Carlins
Speaker 2: gonna let me do what I said. Bitch, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: do everything I can to make sure this man sees
Speaker 2: and knows I am serious about this, and you know
Speaker 2: how to show with bitch. I was the only one
Speaker 2: at the end, me and Claude would yeah yeah. But
Speaker 2: I walked off that show and I said, oh, this
Speaker 2: is not done. I'm going to be a talk show host.
Speaker 2: I was convinced because you planted a seed in me
Speaker 2: that it was possible. You planted a seed. You planted
Speaker 2: a seed. So when I'm helping these millions of people
Speaker 2: with my daytime talk show, you planted that seed. Because again,
Speaker 2: you talk about representation, what you saw in me when
Speaker 2: I was on Real World, no one said to me
Speaker 2: before you you know, you give me a talk show host,
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna show you how. I'm gonna give you
Speaker 2: a whole season to do it when it's small on
Speaker 2: my face and I was like, bitch, you gonna so
Speaker 2: You're gonna get me every resource I can so I
Speaker 2: can show the world I'm gonna talk show host. I
Speaker 2: was not gonna take that. And you know this from
Speaker 2: being there. I did not take that opportunity lightly at all. Bitch.
Speaker 2: I was showing up every meet and everything. Girl, I'm like,
Speaker 2: what we we gotta do?
Speaker 1: You did you came in early, you did the job,
Speaker 1: you did everything.
Speaker 2: No, but you are the reason that the seed got planted,
Speaker 2: that it was possible. And so this is the given
Speaker 2: exchange of why I love you and what you do
Speaker 2: for us. You help us, you plant seeds, you do
Speaker 2: these things. Because when I walked in my show set,
Speaker 2: they're in my office. I wish I had a photo it.
Speaker 2: I should have brought one. I had a thing of
Speaker 2: the next fifteen because this was my next fifteen. This
Speaker 2: is literally what this was.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 2: I was like, bitch, this is what Carlos said I
Speaker 2: could do, and here it is.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm gonna say this, Alice Cameron me now,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna say this because this is the prime
Speaker 1: example of this. The reason why a lot of reality
Speaker 1: stars don't make it is because they're not grateful for
Speaker 1: the small wins. They're not grateful for the small beginnings.
Speaker 1: They're not grateful for the small opportunities that come their way.
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to be Nanni Leagues or Kim Kardashian, and
Speaker 1: they don't want to do the work that's necessary to
Speaker 1: get there. Everybody wants social media to love them. Everybody
Speaker 1: is not doing their job. The fact that he didn't say,
Speaker 1: I'm on TV one care like this small ass network.
Speaker 1: It was the fact that you showed up and said,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to be the best I can be.
Speaker 1: And the reason why God has always propelled you to
Speaker 1: unforeseen heights is because Karamo is what I try to
Speaker 1: tell all my reality stars I work with that take
Speaker 1: the small wins and be grateful for it, and God
Speaker 1: will bless you with all of your heart's desires. There's
Speaker 1: reality stars that I worked with before that I have
Speaker 1: seen so much potential in, but they never appreciate the
Speaker 1: opportunity because they were like, oh, I should be on
Speaker 1: a bigger network. A lot of them, i'most be real
Speaker 1: with you, a lot of them want to be on Bravo.
Speaker 1: They want to be a housewife. And that's fine. Do
Speaker 1: you but also know that if you're not appreciating the
Speaker 1: actual opportunity he's in front of you while would God
Speaker 1: bless you with something bigger? And when they fumble the
Speaker 1: bag and they lose the opportunity, that's when they start
Speaker 1: blaming everybody else except them. You did not protect your opportunity.
Speaker 1: And Karamo Brown is the prime example of being on
Speaker 1: a show the next fifteen, the least followers, the like
Speaker 1: not the most popular, broke baby, okay, the least paid.
Speaker 1: But he was the most grateful. And this is a
Speaker 1: prime example of how you are grateful for every single
Speaker 1: opportunity that comes your way. And you don't have to
Speaker 1: be an entertainment to get that lesson. All of you
Speaker 1: guys to get the lesson up. When God sees you
Speaker 1: be grateful for the small opportunities, give you a baby.
Speaker 1: He's planting the sea for something bigger. Because when God
Speaker 1: can see if you can handle this small blessing, then
Speaker 1: my child, I know you can handle the bigger one,
Speaker 1: the big.
Speaker 2: The big.
Speaker 1: And you have been the preach because you have been
Speaker 1: the personification of that. And that's why I have to
Speaker 1: bring it back to Even when he made it bought
Speaker 1: his fabulous home in La he said, hey girl, I'm
Speaker 1: having a pool party. You want to come, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'll be there for you. And he gave me I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna get chills, I'm not gonna cry to see
Speaker 1: someone that looks like me when and you gave me
Speaker 1: a tweet said, look, Carlos, like this is my bedroom,
Speaker 1: this is this and and you know for black people.
Speaker 1: I got a pool a black post, and you have
Speaker 1: a pool. You made it, bit kid, and you went
Speaker 1: from I'm you know, I'm a social worker and I
Speaker 1: have a small apartment. But Carlos, if you give me
Speaker 1: the opportunity, I'm to be here and you and I
Speaker 1: just I'm I'm so proud of you and I you know,
Speaker 1: and vice versa. So what what is next for Kramo Brown?
Speaker 1: Because I know this, This ain't it.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's not it. It ain't it. Well, I'll tell
Speaker 2: you this. What I am focused on right now is
Speaker 2: like for the past two years, I've been on a
Speaker 2: complete wellness journey, like one hundred percent sober, focusing on
Speaker 2: my mental health, my physical health. I launched an app
Speaker 2: called Key and I it's it's the first app that
Speaker 2: is where you can get a customized fitness plan, customized
Speaker 2: nutrition plan, a grocery list, sobriety support, mental health support.
Speaker 2: I record videos in there all the time. I do
Speaker 2: everything in this app because there's I also have an
Speaker 2: AI where you can talk to me. I also do
Speaker 2: webinars where people can actually ask me real questions and
Speaker 2: talk to me. You go to live key dot com.
Speaker 2: L I B e k E dot com to get that.
Speaker 2: But I created this because I knew the next journey
Speaker 2: was giving all the people who have watched me some
Speaker 2: space that they could go to to have access to to,
Speaker 2: you know, all the resources that I didn't have when
Speaker 2: I was trying to build myself up. I will also
Speaker 2: tell you this, I have written three books, children's book,
Speaker 2: one memoir, but and I have been asked for ten
Speaker 2: years to write a self help book. And I always
Speaker 2: said I will not write a self help book. I
Speaker 2: said I will not do it. And the reason I
Speaker 2: said I wouldn't do it is because I said, until
Speaker 2: I'm living one hundred percent the truth, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to do what these snake oil salesmen do and lied
Speaker 2: to nobody. I'm going to have to live it to
Speaker 2: give it. I'm not going to be over when I
Speaker 2: give advice. It's partly based on my training, but it's
Speaker 2: also based on my life experiences. That's why I'm so transparent.
Speaker 2: But I said, a self help book that's going to
Speaker 2: live for years, it has to come from a place
Speaker 2: of truth. So I just actually turned in the manuscript
Speaker 2: for my first self help book, which I'm super excited about.
Speaker 2: I also have two brand new shows that are be
Speaker 2: coming out that I'll tell you about off on camera
Speaker 2: because the network has announced them. First, I'm gonna cut
Speaker 2: you off.
Speaker 1: I was the first to know Alex camera me. I
Speaker 1: was the first to know his talk. So he said, hey, bitch,
Speaker 1: I'm having to talk show off the record. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do Dancing with the Stars first. I tell you you
Speaker 1: said you said it's a strategy. I'm doing that first.
Speaker 1: I will be going by Coramo one name only, and
Speaker 1: then after that my talk show with debut. And I said,
Speaker 1: not a strategy, strategy.
Speaker 2: That word that, bitch. When I tell you that, people
Speaker 2: read me. They were like, what are you doing on
Speaker 2: Dancing with the Stars? This is that is not And
Speaker 2: I said, bitch, I want a daytime talk show, and
Speaker 2: I want people around the country who are not used
Speaker 2: to watch Netflix or whatever, who's not watching Quera to
Speaker 2: know who I am. And I'm not gonna tell him
Speaker 2: my last name. I'm just gonna give him one name.
Speaker 2: And bitches, did what I need to do what I
Speaker 2: need to do? So what what is everything that's coming next?
Speaker 2: And you'll see is is elevating what of how I'm
Speaker 2: helping people I'm so clear now about my mission in
Speaker 2: this world. I'm so clear about my purpose. I don't
Speaker 2: even have a question. I know I'm here to heal people.
Speaker 2: I am here to heal. And that looks fun sometimes,
Speaker 2: that looks messy sometimes, and it looks straightforward sometimes. But
Speaker 2: I know I am here to heal. I am here
Speaker 2: for people to know that they can call me at
Speaker 2: any time. I can guide them. People stop me on
Speaker 2: the street and I sit and I talk to them,
Speaker 2: give them advice. People hit me up. Don't be doing
Speaker 2: this all the time, but people hit me up ask
Speaker 2: me for money, and I get money. I'm not joking.
Speaker 2: I swear to God. People, you know how you get
Speaker 2: that part of your Instagram where you it's like you can't.
Speaker 2: You got to accept the message. I read those and
Speaker 2: someone will be like, you know, I'm struggling right now,
Speaker 2: and I will immediately send them some money because I
Speaker 2: also know what it is like to be a single
Speaker 2: father raising two boys in a two bedroom apartment, lying
Speaker 2: on the next fifteen about because I was taking a bus,
Speaker 2: can somebody let me borrow the car so I can
Speaker 2: come drive to this set and seem like I got
Speaker 2: a chick card.
Speaker 1: Your purchase a steph and he would sometimes drop you
Speaker 1: off at home.
Speaker 2: Dephanie would drop me off at home because everybody else
Speaker 2: had Badley's baby. But I was like, baby, I gotta
Speaker 2: get off the bus. I gotta get home. It's about
Speaker 2: to be home, Like this is the real. So when
Speaker 2: people hit me up now and this is what I
Speaker 2: mean about my purpose and I know I'm here, God
Speaker 2: has blessed me, I am completely bursting you talking about
Speaker 2: my home. You talk about the things that I've getten
Speaker 2: and so I can talk about those things without feeling
Speaker 2: fear of people being like he's bragging. Because I give,
Speaker 2: I give, I give, I give quietly as we most
Speaker 2: people should give quietly. And I know I'm talking about
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: Don't let your right hand up to the left hand
Speaker 1: is doing exactly.
Speaker 2: And so like, I do this because I know I'm
Speaker 2: here to help. I know I'm here to heal. I
Speaker 2: know what my purpose is. And when me telling my
Speaker 2: truth recently in the People magazine and sharing thing, I've
Speaker 2: had all these executives and people telling me who are
Speaker 2: higher up saying, oh my gosh, I've been through that.
Speaker 2: I've experienced that, I've went through that I know what
Speaker 2: you've gone through. We even talked about this in the elevator.
Speaker 2: You were like, oh, bitch, I know exactly what you're
Speaker 2: talking to. I went through the same thing with these
Speaker 2: these exact same people. And I'm not calling the names
Speaker 2: out because I don't need to, because the names I'm
Speaker 2: gonna call out are the people who are now accepting
Speaker 2: me in new rooms and opening up new doors for you,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And so I'm just I'm
Speaker 2: just excited. I'm just excited about what's coming next, Like
Speaker 2: twenty then the twenty six, twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven,
Speaker 2: twenty eight. Baby, your thought, your thought. There's a reason
Speaker 2: that I've been here since two thousand and four, baby,
Speaker 2: over twenty years. Okay, there's a reason. Baby. I know
Speaker 2: how to keep reinventing. Girl. Madonna taught us. Beyonce thought
Speaker 2: us the reinvent do what you gotta do it. No,
Speaker 2: I'm jerk, and.
Speaker 1: Hey, listen for you. Even I know for you, it
Speaker 1: must feel nice to be financially blessed. It feels good
Speaker 1: you are a millionaire. Do you okay, okay, okay, I'll
Speaker 1: get between us. Boys.
Speaker 2: Do you.
Speaker 1: Do you sometimes go to your account. Just check it
Speaker 1: and be like, Okay, it's still there. You know, you're like,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like okay, Nini Lee said.
Speaker 1: Nini Lee said when she first made her first million,
Speaker 1: and this is the course back in the day where
Speaker 1: we all went to ATM machines, Niini Lee said she
Speaker 1: will randomly go to the at machine and print off
Speaker 1: the receipt and she were reading to say and she
Speaker 1: said her cup holder her car was full of ateen receipts.
Speaker 1: Bick said, I can't believe I have this much money
Speaker 1: my bank account, like me, knowing me, knowing your humble
Speaker 1: beginnings and your struggles. And I think this listen, I
Speaker 1: think this is empowering for people. Because when Nini shut
Speaker 1: that story, I think it's very empowered and said the
Speaker 1: same to me. She said, first of all, bitch, check
Speaker 1: your ban count every single day. And I'm like every day?
Speaker 1: She said, what are you afraid of? And I said, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I just don't want She said, check it
Speaker 1: every day. And I said, okay, Like do you sometimes
Speaker 1: be like damn, So.
Speaker 2: I'll say this, I talk about this, I'll talk about this.
Speaker 2: In this instance, I don't take my bank account every
Speaker 2: day because the way that my money is set up,
Speaker 2: I don't have access to check it like a bank account.
Speaker 2: There's no see coming out. You know, like when you
Speaker 2: know you have to understand that, you know, you start
Speaker 2: putting your money in trust and sort of investments, sort
Speaker 2: of things. You know, when you have those things, you're
Speaker 2: not taking out of an ATM because you know there's
Speaker 2: and this is there's a deeper conversation that we need
Speaker 2: to have as black folks about like putting your money
Speaker 2: just in some financial institution that is not really paying
Speaker 2: you the dividends you deserve. That it's not making money
Speaker 2: for you. It's a different thing. So I can't see
Speaker 2: my money just from ATM because my money is out
Speaker 2: there working right now. She's at work, she has a job.
Speaker 2: She has a job to do right now. So bitch,
Speaker 2: And like just like any employee, bitch, if I see
Speaker 2: you hanging around, bitch, I'm gonna say what you doing?
Speaker 2: What is going on? Why you ain't got no work
Speaker 2: to do. It's like when I was young and my
Speaker 2: mama walking in the house and she'd be like, yell,
Speaker 2: ain't got none to do right now. That's how I
Speaker 2: feel about my money. You ain't got none to do
Speaker 2: right now. So but I am very thankful because I
Speaker 2: am I will never go back to where I was
Speaker 2: because I know what it's like, and I will always
Speaker 2: make sure that I am putting my money right, putting
Speaker 2: in things. Literally, one day we should have a conversation
Speaker 2: about black finances and what to do.
Speaker 1: We gotta Yeah, black people with financial literacy is a thing,
Speaker 1: and you know, hide and get under your mattress or
Speaker 1: just in the in the financial institution is not the move.
Speaker 2: I was giving a girlfriend the other day who is
Speaker 2: struggling right now because she just got through a divorce,
Speaker 2: and I said, go buy you an insurance, a life
Speaker 2: a life insurance policy. And she said what for And
Speaker 2: I said, go buy it and then put it into
Speaker 2: a trust. Now, we can't go deep into this because
Speaker 2: this is not the space. But I just put out,
Speaker 2: y'all on game. This is not something for the wealthy
Speaker 2: to do. You are got some money right now, go
Speaker 2: get a life insurance policy a million dollars, Go put
Speaker 2: in a trust because then that's what you borrow against
Speaker 2: and you'll be making money off of that. Now, Go Google,
Speaker 2: Go go putting chat GBT and claude and learn. But
Speaker 2: these are the conversations that I'd be saying to people,
Speaker 2: like they think you have to have money to make money.
Speaker 2: They think you have to be rich to do things.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, any nigga out there who's ever had
Speaker 2: to work and do something, you are smart enough. If
Speaker 2: you were smart enough to figure out your bus schedule
Speaker 2: to get to work, you smart enough to make a
Speaker 2: million dollars. Baby, you are smart enough. You have it
Speaker 2: in you. And just I just I just can't wait
Speaker 2: to have more of those real conversations of how what
Speaker 2: I learned? What I learned, Like how I said, Okay,
Speaker 2: what do I do with this? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Because again you know me, like I'm taking a bus
Speaker 2: and doing whatever. And now I'm like, I don't do
Speaker 2: that no more. Well I still do sometimes?
Speaker 4: Why no, No?
Speaker 2: And the thing is, actually I rode my bike here.
Speaker 1: Good, well the range.
Speaker 2: I know this.
Speaker 1: I recently saw my house. I said, I don't need
Speaker 1: this big ass house.
Speaker 2: It was it was.
Speaker 1: Because the thing is, I'm like, it's just me.
Speaker 2: I have no kids, no young people.
Speaker 1: I don't have a family.
Speaker 2: They told us nobody. It's a scam. I mean serving
Speaker 2: all the extra fees, baby, I will rent all day.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Home Ownership is not the flex.
Speaker 2: Not the flex, baby, listen, And I'm not saying if
Speaker 2: this for you, do it.
Speaker 1: If you have a family and you want to live
Speaker 1: in a house for ten plus years, bye, buy a house.
Speaker 1: If you like me and you doing it traveling living.
Speaker 2: I don't need to show off with no big house
Speaker 2: some more. That's when when I first made it, that
Speaker 2: was what I needed to do. I felt like I
Speaker 2: needed to do it to prove to myself I made it.
Speaker 2: Now I don't know better. I don't need to. I
Speaker 2: need to. And what I do want is investment properties. Yes,
Speaker 2: what I do want is to be in my apartment
Speaker 2: and when something go break down, I call somebody else
Speaker 2: and don't have to worry about no warranty, no fixing. Bitch,
Speaker 2: come in here eleven o'clock at night. The building I living.
Speaker 2: I'd be like, hey, the oven light's not out, can
Speaker 2: you come fix it? And they'd be like, yes, sir.
Speaker 2: They get tired to be putting together a quest request
Speaker 2: all the time.
Speaker 1: Mister kinger be like are you at home? I'm actually not,
Speaker 1: but going going.
Speaker 2: Look e shit is motherfucker because everything is gone. And bitch,
Speaker 2: when I'm done with you'all, I'm gone tell you we're
Speaker 2: gonna put these kids on one day. Let's put the
Speaker 2: kids off. I thank you, thank you for this. God's
Speaker 2: timing is always perfect. This was a time for us
Speaker 2: to talk. And I'll say it over and over and
Speaker 2: over again. I'm thankful for our friendship. But I'm also
Speaker 2: proud of the man that you are. And from one
Speaker 2: fellow gay black man to another, keep soaring.
Speaker 1: You. You make us proud. You, you make us proud.
Speaker 2: If I can leave your audience with one thing, go ahead, baby,
Speaker 2: message for them, go ahead. This is something I've been
Speaker 2: telling people recently that I want people to hear, and
Speaker 2: I've been saying this a lot lately. The compass was
Speaker 2: invented before the clock, so it's not about the amount
Speaker 2: of time. It's about the direction. And I think sometimes
Speaker 2: people get caught up with the amount of time it's
Speaker 2: gonna take for their goals to get the family they want.
Speaker 2: They feel like I gotta hit it by this time. Baby.
Speaker 2: It's about the direction you're going in. Look at what
Speaker 2: you're doing, the steps that you're taking, how you're guiding yourself,
Speaker 2: who you're aligning with, how you're acting. That's more important
Speaker 2: than the time it takes, because what we are true
Speaker 2: testaments of is baby. I could have, like you said before,
Speaker 2: with all these reality stars, I could have saw an
Speaker 2: opportunity and said, oh fuck. It's also what happened now.
Speaker 2: I still don't even know what greater is coming, because
Speaker 2: but I do know the direction I'm going. And that's
Speaker 2: my little last little piece of for y'all.
Speaker 1: Karama Brown, y'all, I'm sorry, Karama. Reality with the King
Speaker 1: is executive produced by me Carlos King, produced by Lizzie Mimics,
Speaker 1: and a partnership with the Lack of Effect Network. You
Speaker 1: can also find us on my YouTube channel at Being
Speaker 1: Carlos King Underscore