1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to it could happen here once again, 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: posted by myself Andrew from the YouTube channel andrewism as 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: we talked about whatever and whatever in question is the 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: second most populous country in the world, and one potential 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: vision for its future drawn from its anti clunial past. 6 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: Are speaking, of course about India, a sub concern from 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: which I draw a good portion of my heritage, and 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: when I boasts over nine thousand years of recorded history 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: and roughly fifty years of knowing human settlement, India is 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: an incredibly diverised country ethnically, linguistically, religiously and otherwise. But 11 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: unfortunately it has suffered much of the same fate that 12 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: the rest the world has fallen free to the rapacious 13 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: appetite of British clunialism. Well, historically, the Indian local economy 14 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: was dependent upon the most productive and sustainable agriculture and horticulture, 15 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: and of course pottery and food and Jamaican jewelry was 16 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: very well known for jewelry, and in fact Indian jewelry 17 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: makers ended up starting some very successful jewelry businesses when 18 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: they were freed from indentionship in Trinidad Um. They also 19 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: got involved in leather work and a lot of other 20 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: economic activities in India. Um, but the basis of India 21 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: has traditionally, historically, you know, for thousands of years been textiles, 22 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: different types of tex styles. Each village had its spinners 23 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: and carters and dyers and weavers who were of course 24 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: at the hearts of that village's economy. But an interesting 25 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: outcome of British cleanism in India has been the flooding 26 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: of India with the machine made, inexpensive, mass produced textiles 27 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: from Lancashire during you know, in brit terms Industrial Revolution. 28 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: The local textile artists were very quickly put out to 29 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: business and village economies suffered very terribly. So I mean, 30 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: you know, well, I think we're familiar with this sort 31 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: of general story. Smaller cottage industries became overrun by you know, 32 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: mass production. And of course I don't mean to sound 33 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: like I'm entirely demonizing mass production, just describing what has happened. 34 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: Of course, mass production has had its many benefits in 35 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: providing access to resources and two products many different people. 36 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: But of course it's also had its many drawbacks, including 37 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, the share environmental impact as well as the 38 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: impact on people, um. You know, as Mark spoke about, 39 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: of um, their alienation from the process of production, as 40 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: the industrial system basically separated each step in the process 41 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: of production two different workers, and so no one had 42 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: a hand in the production of a product and start 43 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: to finish. And of course that that had significant social 44 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: and I would also assume mental impact on the people 45 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: with you know, that whole era of British economic imperialism 46 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: happening India. The changes that took place within a generation 47 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: was so rapid, you know, your headwards spin, that evolution 48 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: of you know, the India home economy. It was really 49 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: a site to behold. And another element of British economic 50 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: imperialist on British imperialism more broadly was the introduction of 51 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: British education under colonial rule in the eighteenth century. UM. 52 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: When Lord McCaulay introduced the Indian Education Act in the 53 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: British Parliament, UM, he said, and I quote, a single 54 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: shelf of a good European library was with the whole 55 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: native literature of India. Neither as a language of the law, 56 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: nor as a language of religion, has a sand script 57 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: any particular claim to our engagement. We must do our 58 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 1: best to former class of persons Indian in blood and color, 59 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: but English in taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect. 60 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: So the typical racism, typical white pants, burt and typical 61 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: you know. Um, of course this phrase was used in 62 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: a North American Indigenous American context, but I believe the 63 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: phrase is taking the Indian out of the man. Yeah, 64 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: kill the Indians, save the man, right. Um, So it's 65 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: kind of interesting. It's a different type of Indian talking 66 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: about there, but that sort of idea still applies. And 67 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: really that sort of sentiment is something that has existed 68 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: throughout the history of communism, something that you know, is 69 00:04:54,760 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: seen in all of Britain's former colonies. Because Monster's Aim 70 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: was put into Parliament and pushed forward, it was pursued 71 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: with the mine to the British Raj. All the traditional 72 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: schools that took place in different village communities were gradually 73 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: replaced by colonial schools and universities. Of course, take advantage 74 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: of the cast and class system that was in place 75 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: in India prior to their arrival. The British would have 76 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: selected wealth year Indians to be sensed the public schools 77 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: such as Eton and Harew and universities like Oxford and Cambridge, 78 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: and those Indians that you know, they learned English poetry, 79 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: English law, English customs, to the neglect of their own culture. 80 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: You know, it's like why read the classics of the 81 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: Vedas when you have Shakespeare and the London Times. And 82 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: so having been raised in that environment, having grown up, 83 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: having basically their minds colonized from the crib, they began 84 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: to see their own cultures as backward, uncivilized, old fashioned, 85 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: regressive and again and something you see all over the world. 86 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: You sort in the residential schools, you see it in 87 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: the schools in the Caribbean, and you see it in 88 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: schools in Africa. Basically everywhere they colonized went Um. They 89 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: would take a generation, they were take generations of young people, 90 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: and they would develop that self hatred um not the 91 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: stained for their own culture by you know, positioning um, 92 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: their education, British education, as you know, superior. In fact, 93 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: during the process of decolonization could and quote um of 94 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, formal political independence. So many of the former 95 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: colonies of Britain, particularly in the Caribbeans, that's way most 96 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: familiar Um. A lot of the people who became you know, 97 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: the fullest prime ministers of the country, the one that 98 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: would establish the trajectory of the country for years of 99 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: decades to come. UM thinking of people like Bustamante and Jamaica, 100 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: Eric Williams, Dr Ric Williams, in Trance people, UM, among others. 101 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: Basically all of the fullest prime ministers basically every single 102 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: Caribbean country. They had all been educated UM in English schools, 103 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: in English universities, in well in the prestige schools of 104 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: their countries. Didn't end up being flown out to writain 105 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: itself and they basically became the rulers, became the leaders. 106 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: Um were handed power over by the British to basically 107 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: rule in their stead. Of course, with all the talk 108 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: of finally independence, UM people got caught up in that 109 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: energy of political independence and freedom from the control of 110 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: the British after all the decades and centuries of struggle. 111 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: But unfortunately it proved I believe to be a rules 112 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: as very little changed for the average person in the 113 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: years post political independence. Yeah, this is something that Phnan 114 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: talks about UM in in the sort of Francophone context 115 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: of like even even in countries you have like Atward, 116 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: you know that the colonizers are thrown up actual revolutions. 117 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: You get this class of like like lawyers and intellectuals 118 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: who are like have been educated like in imperialist powers 119 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: or in sort of their schools, who wind up as 120 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: like the first generation of of post independence leaders. And 121 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: those people, like you know what, whether they want to 122 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: or not, end up sort of like reflecting the sort 123 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: of values and political positions of like of the form 124 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: of colonial powers. And there's this whole sort of dynamic 125 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: that like, I feel like, I feel like this is 126 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: the part of Penon that people don't read very much. 127 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: But that's about how these leaders sort of like lose 128 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: touch with it with the sort of like anti colonial masses, 129 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: and how they sort of like wind up reincorporating their 130 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: country back into sort of colonialism. Yeah. Yeah, that's really 131 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: how you see that new clonal dynamic developing UM. And 132 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: it's really it's hard to tell retrospectively whether these leaders 133 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: thought they were actually you know, anti colonial, or if 134 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: they knew that they were you know, carrying on a 135 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: particular legacy. But I find that because is only UM 136 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: only recently celebrated just last year sixty years of independence. 137 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: There of course people who were alive prior to independence, 138 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: and so you find a lot of the older generation 139 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: how they how some of them speak, particularly the more 140 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: educated ones, how they carry themselves, or they dress, the 141 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: attitudes their spouses very much like to get any kind 142 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: of respect in their time, you had to behave to me, 143 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: had to present yourself to me, and to present yourself 144 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: in a as approximate to Britishness as possible, the whole 145 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, conversation of respectability, politics and stuff. So I 146 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: have understanding of what they had to go through and 147 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: where they're coming from when they hold onto these perspectives 148 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: still because that's what they grew up in. But there 149 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: really is a shame that they've been holding back progress 150 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: for so long now because they still hold onto these 151 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: deeply conservative, deeply religious, deeply reactionary ideas that were just 152 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, they just inplicated within the education system and 153 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: in the cultural pygeist of their time. I was just 154 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: when May was talking about Fan, I was thinking as 155 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: well about like, have you read a book called Beyond 156 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: the Boundary by seller James Andrew. I haven't because it's 157 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: about cricket and I'm not too integrated cricket. But I've been. Um. 158 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: I know it's an iconic and that's I think he 159 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: explains a lot of it very well. I think people 160 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: could read it even if they don't. Like I'm not 161 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: a big cricket person, but it's certainly one of the 162 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: best sports books I've read, maybe one of the best books. 163 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: And he doesn't he put a lot of bangers in 164 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: his time. Yeah, he did have some bangs, highly recommended. Yeah, 165 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: if you don't want to read about cricket. He also 166 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: talks about this in The Crewmen and the Ghana Revolution. Yeah, 167 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: but it's not about cricket. It's more of an autobiography, 168 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: like seen through the lens of his his cricket, I think. 169 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's cool because I know he spent a 170 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: lot of time he grew up of course born readers 171 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: and stuff. I'm truing that, so be interested to see 172 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: um sort of if he talks about his political development, 173 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: how battery was in his time in Ta, yeah, I 174 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: think he does. It's been a while since I've read it, 175 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: but I think he talks about like how he sort 176 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: of saw himself constituted a colonial subject, like through his 177 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: experiences interacting with British people on one of the places 178 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: where the terrains where he did encountered them, I guess 179 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: was playing cricket because great, yes, of course, and you know, 180 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: thankfully we've come to decimate them at their own game 181 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: as usual. It's true. Yeah, yeah, And even like English 182 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,839 Speaker 1: cricket at a certain point, like getting really into cricket, 183 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: which I know it's a diversion, but like they had 184 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: rules where you could only have a certain number of 185 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: international players playing for each English county. It's extremely like 186 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: if you look at how the Empire constituted White Us 187 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: through sport, and like who was allowed to play rugby, 188 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: which is a touching sport, and who was allowed to 189 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: play cricket, which which isn't normally a touching sport like 190 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: it did. It's racist as fun. Yeah, I mean, of 191 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: course it's hilarious in sports history. Sorry for the cricket diversion. Sorry, 192 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: please continue. It's entirely fine. I see, it's all Greek 193 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: to me because I don't know what any of those 194 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: points or numbers or anything means um to many different 195 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: types of cricket. I mean, I've had trying to explain 196 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: to me be for it's just the fine thing. Um, 197 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: I know, people who play it though, so you know, 198 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: good for them at all. But back to India, right, 199 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: If there's one particular person in India's history that really 200 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: represented to this type of Western educated, colonized subject trying 201 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: to be something bigger than that kind of mentality, it 202 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: was Jawaharlal Never who became the first Prime minister after independence. 203 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: Nu of course sought to promote the industrialization of India, 204 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: not be a capitalist route, but by more of a 205 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: centralized plane and route, which is why if you look 206 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: at the India India's constitution, you will see that it's 207 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: refers to itself as a socialist country. Yeah. Actually, really, 208 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: if I'm remembering right, neighbor was like he was like 209 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: a Fabian socialist or something. Yeah, yeah, be his inspiration. 210 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 1: His inspiration came from the intellectuals of the London School 211 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: of Economics and the Phobian society. So yeah, he's quite 212 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: the character. You see the sort of direction that he 213 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: ends up putting the country. And I mean even today, 214 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: India in many ways continues to be ruled in the 215 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: English way without English rulers. Um, just like in the 216 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: Caribbean continues to be ruled in the English way. Without 217 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: English rulers in Africa, you know, the various countries have 218 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: been ruling their various colonize and powers way rather than 219 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: in their own way without the colonizes rulers. The other 220 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: colonizing rulers. UM. The industrialists, the intellectuals, the entrepreneurs, all 221 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: of them are working with the government to see the 222 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: salvation of India taking place in a subordination to the world. 223 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: Back can the I M F from the G A 224 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: T T. You know, they see India as part of 225 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: this global economy, meant to submit into sue to moultinary 226 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: no corporations. UM. But of course the people of India 227 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: UH not to please in the people of India suffering 228 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: under the brunt of that um. After seeing the failures 229 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: of of course the Congress Party under Nehru and his 230 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: daughter Indira Gandhi and her son Rajiv Gandhi. Um, the 231 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: poor continues to be poor than ever the middle classes 232 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: and tuning towards uh just say certain directions. UM. And 233 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: of course, as we've seen in the past few years, 234 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: the farmers have been agitating against various pressures. They've been 235 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: placed under things kind of stuff and it was pretty 236 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: much how Mahatma Gandhi predicted that it would because, unlike 237 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: Nehru and unlike other western that he here to think 238 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: of his time, UM, Gandhi thought differently about what India's 239 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: potential could be, what it looked like. And that's part 240 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: of the reason they killed him. And I must preface 241 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: this discussion of Gandhi's vision of a free India by noting, 242 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: of course that Gandhi himself was a very flawed person. Um, 243 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: you know, racist, sexist, Um, pretty sure he assaulted somebody, 244 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: He did some very um fucked up stuff to his knees. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 245 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: I just well, we leave it at that. But I 246 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: mean that's not something you can put aside, so something 247 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: to be cognizant of. But one of the aspects of 248 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: UM his time on this planet UM had been his 249 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: development of a sort of a vision of a free India, 250 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: not as a nation state, but as a confederation of 251 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: self governance, self reliance, self employed people living in village 252 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: communities deriving their right livelihood from the products of their homesteads. 253 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: It would have been a sort of bottom up system 254 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: where the power to decide what could be important into 255 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: or expert from the village where economic and political power 256 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: all I mean in the hands of village assemblies, where 257 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: people in these village assemblies, in these communities would continue 258 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: to live in relative how many with their surroundings with 259 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: They would continue to weave their homespun clothes, eat their 260 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: home and grown food, use their home made goods, care 261 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: for their animals, their forests and their lands, take care 262 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: of the fertility of the soil, enjoy the home grown 263 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: stories and epics of India, and continue to build their 264 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: temples and appreciate their various regional distinctive cultures. This were 265 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: is meant to be the system, the practice the idea 266 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: of the philosophy of Swedeshi, which is a conjunction of 267 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: two Sanskrit words Swa which meeting self or own and 268 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: desh meaning country, Swadeshi as an adjective meaning of one's 269 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: own country. According to the principle of Swadeshi, the idea 270 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: is that whatever has made or produced in a village 271 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: must be used first and foremost by the members of 272 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: that village. So I mean there could be traded and 273 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: collaboration between villages and communities, but Gandhi thought it should 274 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: be minimal, like sort of an ice and on the 275 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: cake um goods and services to him was something that 276 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 1: should have been generated within the community. The things that 277 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: needed to be used by the community should be created 278 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: in that community. Another influential, perhaps the most influential aspect 279 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: of Swadeshi and Swadeshi philosophy, took place in the early 280 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: twenty tieth century as a direct fallout the decision of 281 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: the British India governments to partition Bengal. The use of 282 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: Swedeshi goods or the goods that are produced and made 283 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: in India buy and he here for Indians and the 284 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: boycott of foreign made goods were among the two main 285 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 1: objectives of the Swadeshi movement, and so the boycott resolution 286 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,959 Speaker 1: ended up being passed in the City Hall in August 287 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: seven nine four UM boycott in the use of Manchester 288 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: cloth and sold from Liverpool in the district to barrisl 289 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: The masses adopted the message of boycotts of formad goods 290 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: and the value of the British cloth sool. They have 291 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: fell very rapidly. Various songs and cultural works ended up 292 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: being produced in the time UM to sort of bolster 293 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: the movement. At one point, one English cloths were burned 294 00:19:54,640 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: as part of the boycott, and the symbol of caddies spinners, 295 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: the sort of tool that was used to weave cloth 296 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: to we've fibers to create theon, became a major force 297 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: in the movement and the representation of the movement. I 298 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: think I get what you're saying, like, we can all 299 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: benefit from a little specialization and the like improvements that 300 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: that brings, while still sort of acknowledging that autonomy is desirable. Yeah, 301 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: I think there needs to be some some balance between 302 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: you know, autonomy and seft reliance and that kind of thing, 303 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: and also collaboration. I think he goes a bit too 304 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: much in that autonomy direction, But in the context of 305 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: when these ideas being developed, it's sort of understandable because, um, 306 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: in this time, you know, the self reliance of the 307 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: people as being vastly eroded, people being forced into you know, cities, 308 00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: they've lost their livelihoods, um, and they were there was 309 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: a sort of developing reliance and the global economy. Whereas 310 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: as she proposes a you know, India avoids economic dependence 311 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: on external market forces that create these vulnerabilities and communities 312 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: that end up um, you know, really harming the members 313 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: of that community, so that she's meant to avoid the 314 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: unhealthy and wasteful environmental destructive transportation of goods um between communities, 315 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: avoiding the excessive emissions that would cause UM, and promoting, 316 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: of course, the development of a strong economic base to 317 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: satisfy the needs of the community, to satisfy the uh 318 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: local production consumption, so that she is kind of about 319 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: both creating a self reliant India and also creating self 320 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: reliant villages within India, so that each village is a 321 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: microcosum of the greater in a web of sort of 322 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:19,719 Speaker 1: a distributed, decentralized web of loosely interconnected communities. In a 323 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 1: time where the British were promoting the centralized, industrialized and 324 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: mechanized mode of production, Gandhy was turning to the principle 325 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: of decentralized, home, crowd and handcrafted modes of production h 326 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: rather than mass production production by the masses. I think 327 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: there was also a spiritual component of the idea of Sweeshi, 328 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: because at the time Gandhy was not a fan of 329 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: the idea that people were not using their hands to produce. 330 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: The idea that you know, everyone should be involved in 331 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: some kind of um trade or skill of some kind 332 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: that utilizes their hands because of you know, the whole 333 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: spiritual component of using the body that you have fully 334 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: and another aspect of the spirituality. So that she was 335 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: of course, the idea of this locally based community enhancing 336 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: a community spirit, community relationships, and community well being, an 337 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: economy that actively encourages mutual aid, that encourages the principle 338 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: of care between families, neighbors, animals, lands, forestry, natural resources 339 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: for present and future generations. It's, uh, there confrontation of 340 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: the driving force between mass production which Gandhi so has 341 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: this cult of the individual, where there must be to 342 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: expandsion of the economy of global scale uh and expand 343 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: the consumption production of the sake of economic growth out 344 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: of a desire for the individual's personal whims, for the 345 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: desire for you know, personal and corporate profit. Another reason, 346 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: of course, that Gandhi rallied against this idea of mass 347 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: production and promoting into the production for the masses by 348 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: the masses. It's because mass production leads people leave in 349 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: their villages, they land their crafts and their homesteads to 350 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: go work in factories where they became cogs in a 351 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: machine standing in a conveyor belt, living in enchanty towns, 352 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,479 Speaker 1: and dependence upon the movies see the bosses. And of course, 353 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: as those bosses gained access to more efficient technologies because 354 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: they were constant in pursuit of greater productivity in this 355 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: creative profit, the masters of this economy, you know, they 356 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: want more efficient machines working faster, and so they want 357 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: less people. We can those machines as so the result 358 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: was that the people who had to move to these 359 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: cities to working these factories we eventually thrown out when 360 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: they were no longer considered useful and became and joined 361 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: the millions of unemployed, you know, rootless, job less people 362 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: in uh Indian society. Sweeter, she instead encourages the idea 363 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: that the machine should be something that subordinates the worker, 364 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: but instead something that is subordinated to the worker, that 365 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't become the master, but instead it is mastered 366 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: and allows us to orchestrate our own pace of you know, 367 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: human activity. It's not that Sweeter, Sweaters, she is necessarily 368 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: against automation, against technological development, but it's more so that 369 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: it aims to circumvent the harms that could be caused 370 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: by such technology as being out of the control of 371 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 1: the people themselves and in the control of the select 372 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: private few. I think swear that she has a sort 373 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: of an element of glorification of the past. Um. They 374 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,719 Speaker 1: weren't doing my research for this episode. I ended up 375 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: looking into um of course, the writings of proponentsswether she 376 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: um and people discussing Andy's thoughts on the subject. And 377 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: I'll just quote one particular passage. So what as she 378 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: is the way to comprehensive peace, peace with oneself, peace 379 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: between peoples, and peace with nature. The global economy drives 380 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: people toward high performance, high achievement, and high ambition from 381 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: materialistic success. This results in stress, loss of mening, loss 382 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: of in a peace, loss of space for personal and 383 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: family relationships, and loss of spiritual life. Gandhi realized in 384 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: the past life in India was not only prosperous but 385 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: also conducive to philosophical and spiritual development, so that she, 386 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: for Gandhi, was a spiritual imperative. I think it's understandable 387 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: that a de colonial project would attempt to develop a 388 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: pride in the history of the people who have gone 389 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: through so much UM and you know their legacy and 390 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: their traditions and their ideas. But I think it's a 391 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: bit of a stretch to um glorify h India's past 392 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: and and precluling your past in such a respect. I 393 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: don't think any people's freakling your past should be excessively 394 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: glory glorified or um like mythologiized. Mythologized, Yeah, romanticized, because 395 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: I feel as though one that clouds our judgments UM 396 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: and a critical eye for the aspects of past societies 397 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: that do do it need to be challenged, do need 398 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: to be changed? Um? I think that's part of my 399 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: issue is with A. She is this idea that you know, 400 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: if things just go back to uh, these sorts of 401 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: villages and village community, is that everything else that would 402 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: just be okay. But of course there were other issues 403 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: that Inky was teeing with, even priortic colonization, you know, 404 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: in terms of sexism, in terms of the control of 405 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: the cast system and the higher casts, UM, and the 406 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: other aspects of Indian society that of course we made 407 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: um more surveyor by British communism. Colorism, I think is 408 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: one of those issues that of course existed practical colonization 409 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: but was made worse by the British and their presence 410 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: in the subcontinent. But I think striking that balance of 411 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: uh cleaning, learning from respecting that um, that prequeling the past, 412 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: but also in art equal in our projects, not excessively 413 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: romanticizing the past in an effort to progress towards the future. 414 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: These days, I believe sweet actually is most known for 415 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: its focus on protect protectionism. It's the staining you foreign 416 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: important investment. But it was of course a very wide 417 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: spanning philosophy. It was a vision um and a philosophy 418 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: of life that Gandhi held his entire life. That's i 419 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: It's not something that I was familiar with prior to 420 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: looking into it and my continued pursuit of decluding your 421 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: perspectives and explorations of various post cludon projects and philosophies. 422 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: But it's something that I've appreciated, despite my criticisms or 423 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: some aspects of it. Asked about all I have FIOL today. 424 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: You can find me on YouTube at andrewism on Twitter 425 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: dot com, slash and It's Saying True, and you could 426 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: support me on Patreon dot com, slash State, Drew Ill 427 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: m M. It could happen here as a production of 428 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media or more podcasts from cool Zone Media. 429 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: Visit our website, cool zone media dot com, or check 430 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 431 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,959 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources 432 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: for It could happen here, updated monthly at cool zone 433 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.