Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, welcome to another episode of Beauty Translated. This week.
Speaker 1: We're very excited we're talking to one of james dear friends.
Speaker 2: So proud to say that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so take it away, Jennie, tell us about who
Speaker 1: we're talking to today.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, I've been really fucking excited about doing this ever
Speaker 3: since you asked me to join the show. We're talking
Speaker 3: to Hala Hunt Hendricks, otherwise known as the main mastermind
Speaker 3: behind the transcendental avant garde black metal music outfit Liturgy.
Speaker 3: Her music and her writings and philosophical mindset means a
Speaker 3: lot to me. So this is someone I'm a big
Speaker 3: fan of, someone I'm very honored to call a friend.
Speaker 3: If you're not familiar with us and you're just here
Speaker 3: to hear Hala speak, I am very happy to have you.
Speaker 2: I really walked.
Speaker 3: Away feeling inspired in a way that like, honestly is
Speaker 3: the reason why I she took us to church. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, it's the reason why I was like so
Speaker 3: drawn to her music in the first place, is because
Speaker 3: it's so immense and uncompromising, and it's something that like
Speaker 3: reforms the way my brain sees music, art philosophy, And
Speaker 3: I know that this is like hyping this up a lot,
Speaker 3: so please enjoy Beauty Transcendental Black Metal Edition with Halo Hantendrix.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, Jamie, take it away.
Speaker 3: Hi, I'm so glad to talk to you again. I'm
Speaker 3: a little shit Like You're a very easy person to
Speaker 3: talk to, but like there's just like a lot that,
Speaker 3: like I don't know, there's a lot about you, there's
Speaker 3: a lot about your art, and there's a lot that
Speaker 3: I kind of want to get to and discuss. And
Speaker 3: I feel like our audience might not be like entirely
Speaker 3: familiar with you and what you do. So would you
Speaker 3: maybe want to like introduce yourself like a little bit and.
Speaker 2: What you do and what you've been up too lately.
Speaker 3: Sure, Well, it's just I know that you're like a
Speaker 3: musician and you but you've had your hand in like
Speaker 3: a lot of different pots lately. I've seen you doing
Speaker 3: like live art and like sculptures and got like a
Speaker 3: new art exhibition and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I wanted to say if I could, like Jane introduced
Speaker 1: me to you for the first time. I had never
Speaker 1: listened to liturgy. I am not somebody who is a
Speaker 1: I do not listen to metal However, I did listen
Speaker 1: to your entire catalog this morning and I loved it.
Speaker 1: I listened to it on three time speed. Is that okay?
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, I didn't really, No, no no. I listened
Speaker 1: to the most recent album, and I love the most
Speaker 1: recent album.
Speaker 4: I do like how it sounds better. Effects is like
Speaker 4: it gives it this kind of like tunes energy that
Speaker 4: like it isn't entirely absent in the music anyway, but
Speaker 4: it's kind of more like an undercurrent. Anyway. I've done that,
Speaker 4: so I wouldn't blame you for it.
Speaker 3: I could see that working with a lot of your
Speaker 3: like really like complex like uh Midi compositions and stuff like.
Speaker 3: I definitely see like the arc work sounding like like
Speaker 3: a really like fucked up like bullet Hell video game,
Speaker 3: like when it's like spot up.
Speaker 1: Gosh, it's funny you say bullet Hell video game. I
Speaker 1: was listening to it on my I was on a
Speaker 1: walk this. I'm so sorry. I'm not even letting our
Speaker 1: guests fucking speak right now. I'm so rude. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: on caffeine right now. I don't normally do this. I'm
Speaker 1: normally on a heroin.
Speaker 4: But.
Speaker 1: So I was on a walk and I was listening,
Speaker 1: and I was having this religious experience listening to the
Speaker 1: latest album nine three six Suppules of three, which I love,
Speaker 1: by the way, and I really was having like a religious,
Speaker 1: spiritual experience, and I felt like I hate to be
Speaker 1: this girl, but I felt like I was Baneta and
Speaker 1: I could have started killing some angels, you know. Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're a fan, but it was
Speaker 1: very banned that like up up that alley.
Speaker 4: So as Jennie was saying, like, I integrate the music
Speaker 4: with a philosophy practice as well as an art practicist,
Speaker 4: and those two other aspects are becoming increasingly important. The
Speaker 4: music is derived like especially if I'm black metal, but
Speaker 4: has a lot of other influences from experimental music and
Speaker 4: especially classical music, like I love love classical music, and
Speaker 4: a very interested and kind of like synthesizing that form
Speaker 4: with the form of like kind of rock or like
Speaker 4: just kind of counterculture, like a bit large and in
Speaker 4: in a in a way that in a way that
Speaker 4: like really kind of engages them, you know, and creates
Speaker 4: the best of both worlds, and it's a kind of
Speaker 4: ecstasy that like neither of them heels on its own.
Speaker 4: And then I did two sculpture shows this past in
Speaker 4: the past year and a half or so. And sculptures
Speaker 4: are nice because that medium is so concrete, Like it's
Speaker 4: nice to kind of have like objects, the relics in
Speaker 4: the world because music is so immaterial, and the sculptures
Speaker 4: have like they're intended to have religious significance as well
Speaker 4: as being engaged with the discourse around in the contemporary
Speaker 4: art world. So there's critique elements as well. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: then there's the philosophy to mention, like from from the
Speaker 4: Thesy has been around for a long time, like super
Speaker 4: long time, and when the band first started, I was
Speaker 4: sort of writing visionary texts sort of about you know,
Speaker 4: about using music and counterculture as a medium for religious corscendants.
Speaker 4: And that is on the one hand, very influenced by
Speaker 4: continental philosophy, especially the news and creature. But I'm I'm
Speaker 4: a practicing Christian, so it's it's because a Christian sort
Speaker 4: of foundation, I guess. And yeah, so the idea is
Speaker 4: kind of that it's a total work of art in
Speaker 4: you know, something like the vision of like Richard Wagner.
Speaker 4: There's like like between that and likeseph voice, like there's
Speaker 4: sort of like a plexus version of that, and there's
Speaker 4: sort of a more romantic version of that. I mean,
Speaker 4: Genesis period is also maybe like a more temporary.
Speaker 2: Rest and peace.
Speaker 4: Yeah r I P R P Jen. We listened to
Speaker 4: their memoir in the band.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well yeah, sorry, no, I was just going to say,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm glad that you were able to kind of like, uh,
Speaker 3: explain that, because when I when I tell other people
Speaker 3: like about your music, or people ask like what's that
Speaker 3: tattoo on your leg or whatever, I find it difficult
Speaker 3: to like some because like you are, you know, ostensibly
Speaker 3: like a musician, a black mental musician, but there's so
Speaker 3: much more to it than that, And for me personally,
Speaker 3: as a fan of yours, I don't want to just
Speaker 3: like simply say, you know, like, oh, she's a musician,
Speaker 3: because there's like I I would usually describe it as
Speaker 3: like there's kind of like three kind of things like
Speaker 3: you just said, Like there's like the music which melds
Speaker 3: with like kind of like Hegelian philosophy, which kind of
Speaker 3: melds with Christianity, and that's kind of this trinitarian thing
Speaker 3: that all kind of like works together. Would would that
Speaker 3: be kind of an accurate way to describe what you do?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's very love but yeah, and it
Speaker 4: is trinitarian too, Like I'm very interested in the sort
Speaker 4: of metaphysics of the Holy Trinity. Like there's this term
Speaker 4: paraclesis that the allergencies, which is like the life of
Speaker 4: the Trinity, the three persons in the Trinity, Like like
Speaker 4: the literal is just like dancing around I guess what
Speaker 4: were they alive to just kind of inter penetration, And
Speaker 4: like the basic idea is to treat music, grama and
Speaker 4: philosophy as the person of the Holy Trinity, to sort
Speaker 4: of be in the image image of God, to create
Speaker 4: the likeness of God. That's another mystical theme. Yeah and yeah,
Speaker 4: but also I mean I think being all of that
Speaker 4: is a pretty black metal thing.
Speaker 2: To I totally agree. I totally agree.
Speaker 4: I think it totally meshes with being black metal, and
Speaker 4: the black metal kind of is the main thing is
Speaker 4: what it is. But like there are like another thing
Speaker 4: that is kind of black metal is to not really
Speaker 4: fully be in a scene. You know that There's just
Speaker 4: like so I see it as being very faithful to
Speaker 4: what black metal is but there are a lot of
Speaker 4: black metal bands that what it means is that they
Speaker 4: play the style of black metal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I totally agree, Like, I think it's truly
Speaker 3: like punk rock to be cavalier in a way that
Speaker 3: like no one else is. And I know that this
Speaker 3: is something that you, being a black metal musician, has
Speaker 3: probably like came with like a lot of I guess,
Speaker 3: sort of like cultural hang ups within the scene because
Speaker 3: it is very insular, and a lot of black metal
Speaker 3: fans like for it to be insular, and you being
Speaker 3: so bold about like trying to do something new, it's
Speaker 3: kind of pissed some people off, for lack of a
Speaker 3: better word, but you still keep doing it, and I
Speaker 3: think there's a very I don't know, I just I
Speaker 3: find there's just to be a real like earnestness to
Speaker 3: what you do, and that is a lot more earnest
Speaker 3: than just the same people who are just like doing
Speaker 3: the same like Mayhem riffs and like corpse Pains and
Speaker 3: all the same kind of like cliches that you expect
Speaker 3: from the genre, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I guess what I think maybe makes some
Speaker 4: people uncomfortable is that one thing that's not very black
Speaker 4: metal about me is that I am very like keen
Speaker 4: to besides love, you know, and like like the importance
Speaker 4: of love that's kind of the main thing, you know,
Speaker 4: because I guess characteristically the key word for black metal
Speaker 4: is hate. So so it's like, so there's that, so
Speaker 4: like I get it. And then in that context, that's
Speaker 4: that's kind of like a wild like a wild move
Speaker 4: to make, whereas like in most of the world, provoking
Speaker 4: the importance of love is like not so controversial.
Speaker 3: Sure, I've kind of seen this term pop up around
Speaker 3: like punk and metal scenes a lot where there's a
Speaker 3: sort of like radical empathy towards like a lot of
Speaker 3: kind of newer extreme music, whereas extreme music of yesteryear
Speaker 3: was all about like death destruction and someone like you, yeah, right,
Speaker 3: Like what you're trying to do is make this like
Speaker 3: kind of transcendent art that yeah, like Carmen said, like yeah,
Speaker 3: when I'm like listening to one of your records, like
Speaker 3: when I'm like really feeling it, I feel like I
Speaker 3: don't know, like i feel like I'm like ascending. Like
Speaker 3: there's like a like a true like ascendance to it.
Speaker 3: And I love like a lot of angry hateful music.
Speaker 3: But I think there's something very like unique and inspiring
Speaker 3: to like try to like deviate from that, using similar
Speaker 3: formulas to what these other bands have laid out, but
Speaker 3: using it for a different goal.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there are more and more bands who take
Speaker 4: that approach, which is great. And I mean, in a way,
Speaker 4: everyone knows that any kind of by music is secretly
Speaker 4: about a certain kind of low you know, because it's
Speaker 4: sort of about like there's a scene and there's something
Speaker 4: that matters there in terms of the community and stuff
Speaker 4: like that. But maybe there was a time when everything's
Speaker 4: so contextual and sometimes and things get so cliched, and
Speaker 4: so I feel like maybe in the eighties and nineties,
Speaker 4: you know, being in a kind of like hardcore world
Speaker 4: or something and talking about love would feel like it's coopted.
Speaker 4: In advancer, it sounds, you know, like it's in booking
Speaker 4: kind of hypocacy. Now it's like those gestures that used
Speaker 4: to seem used to be kind of meaningfully ceta cultural,
Speaker 4: you know, now those are kind of the ones that
Speaker 4: seem more cliched.
Speaker 5: Maybe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you bring up Christianity, and I feel like that's
Speaker 3: probably a good springboard to like, I mean, there's a
Speaker 3: lot there we had who was that Monica Helms her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Monica. I mean I've had a We've talked a
Speaker 1: lot with Pascas about our relationships to religion and spirituality
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Monica Helms, Gabby Claiborne and stuff
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's always like I don't know, it's always
Speaker 3: something in the trans scene like when I I remember,
Speaker 3: like I've several times I've had to explain like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm a Christian, but I'm not like in the way
Speaker 3: that like I'm not a Christian in the way that
Speaker 3: like I'm not one of the bad ones, so I'm
Speaker 3: one of the cool ones. Yeah, But like I think
Speaker 3: that there is like for me personally, Like I don't
Speaker 3: know how much I've talked about this on the show,
Speaker 3: but like for me personally, I have a lot, a lot,
Speaker 3: a lot of religious trauma, as a lot of queer
Speaker 3: people do. And it's it's very like understandable to me
Speaker 3: why a lot of queer people would have such a
Speaker 3: knee jerk reaction to Christianity and religion as a whole.
Speaker 3: But for me personally, I had a lot of trauma
Speaker 3: and I was just like raised Christian because I had
Speaker 3: to be, and I saw a lot of really just
Speaker 3: like scary, just like traumatizing shit as a child and
Speaker 3: went through a lot, and then that drove me into
Speaker 3: being like a very like strong lunch like Reddit atheist,
Speaker 3: kind of like Bill Maher type was like very smarmy
Speaker 3: and very like I was the kid that would go
Speaker 3: around telling all the other kids the Santa Claus isn't
Speaker 3: real essentially and just kind of wearing my like atheism
Speaker 3: as like an edgy kind of badge of honor. So
Speaker 3: except you would just be like sky Daddy, is it real?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh you believe in the flying would go.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's the one from that's a throwback.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: So uh So to bring it like full circle and
Speaker 3: like as an adult, like really just kind of wondering
Speaker 3: at my place in the universe and also reconciling with,
Speaker 3: you know, the fact that I am queer and I
Speaker 3: am trans.
Speaker 2: And God made me that way.
Speaker 3: And it's a nice like kind of reverse UNO card
Speaker 3: to all the people that say like, oh, well God
Speaker 3: doesn't make mistakes, you were born this way and blah
Speaker 3: blah blah. It's like, well, no, God made me as
Speaker 3: a trans woman, and that's actually okay, And it brings
Speaker 3: me a lot of power and comfort knowing that I'm
Speaker 3: taking something that brought me so much pain and trauma
Speaker 3: and suffering and using it as a source for like
Speaker 3: comfort and a source for like something that heals me
Speaker 3: and like nourishes me instead of something that I always
Speaker 3: have to be like afraid of. If I may ask,
Speaker 3: were you always a Christian?
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean I believe this pretty much everything
Speaker 4: you said. And I think that part of why it's
Speaker 4: been easier for me personally to invout Christianity is that
Speaker 4: I probably had less Christianity in my life growing up
Speaker 4: than you, you know, like.
Speaker 3: Did you grow up in New York City or you did? Okay, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: And so I had some Christian influence in my family,
Speaker 4: but I was primarily in like a like a secular
Speaker 4: or for it, you know, and and like, but I
Speaker 4: had some experiences that I don't know, I had a
Speaker 4: mix of positive and negative experience as a Christian any way,
Speaker 4: I would say, but it was never like like, oh,
Speaker 4: the whole world around like the experience that like, you know,
Speaker 4: you hear like everybody complains about having had, you know, like, oh,
Speaker 4: the whole world around me is Christian and like I'm
Speaker 4: being abused by it and all that sort of stuff
Speaker 4: like that, and and like I think that it's fairly
Speaker 4: easy to just say, but harder to feel that like
Speaker 4: maybe all of that was a hypocritical use or an
Speaker 4: abuse of the Christian message, you know, and that actually,
Speaker 4: you know, civil rights for clear people and women and
Speaker 4: so forth, is you know that that historical phenomenon, which
Speaker 4: is so sort of new and unique, is a lot
Speaker 4: of ways the flowering of Christendom, you know, like like
Speaker 4: it's if you sort of look look at the history, uh,
Speaker 4: you know, Western secularism, and a lot of the positive
Speaker 4: dimensions of it kind of came, you know, like it
Speaker 4: kind of already is Christianity, you know, like like if
Speaker 4: you really look at the big picture, it's like and
Speaker 4: this is something that like says all the time too,
Speaker 4: you know, like like that and and so yeah, but
Speaker 4: like I guess what I kind of imagine, like the
Speaker 4: world is just kind of changing a lot, and the
Speaker 4: idea generally that religion is just something from the past.
Speaker 4: It's like stupid, you know, and that like only dumb
Speaker 4: people could possibly believe in God. Or that that it
Speaker 4: is only that like that view is dissolving anyway, you know.
Speaker 4: And so so religion is kind of coming back into culture.
Speaker 4: But a lot of people are converting to Christianity and
Speaker 4: then immediately doing it adopting these reactionary values from a
Speaker 4: sort of like old version of Christianity that we should
Speaker 4: be transcending. And so in a way that makes it
Speaker 4: feel to me more important than ever to sort of
Speaker 4: foreground Christianity by its name and propose a version of
Speaker 4: it that is an improvement on the secularism rather than
Speaker 4: like a regression to like the school version.
Speaker 1: Of a rejection of it entirely.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is something we've talked about on the show
Speaker 2: a lot.
Speaker 3: Is that there does seem to be especially with like
Speaker 3: gen Z and like I don't know.
Speaker 1: As a return to religion for sure, with people who
Speaker 1: aren't like traditionally like conservative and stuff like that. Necessarily,
Speaker 1: I think people are looking for community, looking for something
Speaker 1: to connect with for different reasons. I wanted to say
Speaker 1: something that you talked about like a long time ago,
Speaker 1: related to the Trinity and related to art and music
Speaker 1: and drama and that being a reflection of God, and
Speaker 1: I think it's really funny that. Well, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's just like an interesting thought. I think that like
Speaker 1: art is definitely a reflection of God and of the
Speaker 1: people that make it. But we're seeing now like people
Speaker 1: rejecting art and embracing fake art that is made by
Speaker 1: like AI. I don't want to I don't want to
Speaker 1: have an AI conversation, but I'm kind.
Speaker 2: Of curious Halo's thoughts on AI.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, okay, they say that the death of art
Speaker 1: is like the death of God and vice versa.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I get what you mean.
Speaker 3: I remember thinking about this probably when I was like
Speaker 3: listening to the artwork and all the like, uh, I
Speaker 3: don't know how so immediate, Like there's like Kelvall, like
Speaker 3: that song sounds like it's like a like a colosseum,
Speaker 3: and it sounds like it's very like Gladiator. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of like triumphant kind of sounds in that. And
Speaker 3: I've also heard John Moss say this about his music before,
Speaker 3: where there's something kind of like medieval about it and
Speaker 3: it's kind of like this marriage between the past and
Speaker 3: the future where it's like the far far past merging
Speaker 3: with the far far future and so that's why I
Speaker 3: am a little curious, like what your thoughts are on
Speaker 3: I guess ai and I guess like the future of
Speaker 3: the death of art. Yeah, yeah, just stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Do you have any kind of opinions on that? Have
Speaker 3: you made any videos about that or anything?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I had lots of them for sure. Let's see. I
Speaker 4: was also interested in the previous point. Let me see,
Speaker 4: I think I connected somehow. So yeah, the death of
Speaker 4: our I oh yeah, Younger people getting into religion or
Speaker 4: a sense of community. I think that people are getting
Speaker 4: into religion also because they desired discipline, and that there's
Speaker 4: been especially with you know, the kind of onslaught of
Speaker 4: casino reward, attention and economy, social media stuff that like
Speaker 4: everyone is really battered by not just like stimulation, but
Speaker 4: just sort of like having their attention corn apartment and
Speaker 4: secular liberal values being exploited, like being hijacked to sort
Speaker 4: of justify all that, you know, just like you know,
Speaker 4: like be as free as you want, you know, like
Speaker 4: any discipline is you know, oppressive or whatever like that.
Speaker 4: There's this kind of idea of that, So there's this
Speaker 4: kind of false sense of like more moral justification and
Speaker 4: kind of actually just being taken advantage of by like
Speaker 4: advertising or whatever. And so I think that that's part
Speaker 4: of what the impulse is and then getting into creating
Speaker 4: art and God being art and the depth of all that.
Speaker 4: But like that's again part of why I'm so just
Speaker 4: in the metal classical music nexus. Like in some ways
Speaker 4: I think that with the technological changes that are underway,
Speaker 4: you know, there's an opportunity to be more creative and
Speaker 4: to be better artists than ever and to have you know,
Speaker 4: more people devoting their lives to creative expression and sharing
Speaker 4: and healing than ever, and we should really be leaning
Speaker 4: into that. But there's such a danger of that not
Speaker 4: being what happens, you know, and and almost kind of
Speaker 4: people just losing their capacity to like love or care
Speaker 4: or pay attention, you know, at all, and sort of
Speaker 4: just become like, yeah, just become like Reese in the
Speaker 4: wheels of like some like machine you know that doesn't
Speaker 4: even know we're there or whatever. And I think more
Speaker 4: and more that's like maybe maybe that's just a task,
Speaker 4: you know, a task for the arts generally, in for
Speaker 4: music and everything is to kind of just like keep
Speaker 4: that ember glowing of you know, the idea the identity
Speaker 4: of like God and art, and so as far as
Speaker 4: a I specifically goes like I can see an optimistic
Speaker 4: possible future or something, and I think that, you know,
Speaker 4: what's happening is happening. No one's going to stop happening.
Speaker 3: There's also like in terms of like like people going
Speaker 3: back to religion, I'd say there's kind of a it
Speaker 3: feels it's we're living kind of like hopeless times, especially
Speaker 3: in terms of like politics and stuff, you know, because
Speaker 3: all of this is structured in such a like NonStop
Speaker 3: capitalistic way that like a lot of us like no
Speaker 3: matter what, like if you're like a Marxist third worldiest
Speaker 3: or if you're just a Trump sumporting redneck, like, we
Speaker 3: all see the problems of society. So it kind of
Speaker 3: makes sense to me that people would turn to religion
Speaker 3: or turn to like something that would just be like,
Speaker 3: all right, well, I can't change society. I can't change politics.
Speaker 3: I can't stop the gears from spinning. I don't have
Speaker 3: my hands on the lever of power at all. So
Speaker 3: maybe if I give my faith to God, or if
Speaker 3: I give my faith to you know whatever, like all
Speaker 3: these like weird little like zoomers that are just you know,
Speaker 3: they use like Catholicism as a means to just like
Speaker 3: be racist or crazy or what ever. Like it's it's
Speaker 3: a means for them to try and retain some kind
Speaker 3: of power that none of us have.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Ultimately, Yeah, lately, I've just been myself discovering how much
Speaker 1: like my own brain is not meant to just fucking
Speaker 1: process thousands of people's thoughts and feelings and like all
Speaker 1: of these things every day, like via social media, and
Speaker 1: how overwhelming that is. And you know, listening to your
Speaker 1: music this morning on my walk was like one of
Speaker 1: the first times I felt disconnected from a lot of that.
Speaker 1: And while so I really really appreciated that and enjoyed it.
Speaker 4: Oh cool, that's awesome to hear. Thank thank you for
Speaker 4: saying that, because that's so entumious. What I was about
Speaker 4: to stay responding to Jean's point, which is that I
Speaker 4: think that and so everything's helpless, and so going to
Speaker 4: religion is a way of kind of feeling, you know,
Speaker 4: feeling like you have to meet and see I guess,
Speaker 4: I mean, I think there's a slightly more optimistic way
Speaker 4: of viewing that. I mean, I don't feel like I
Speaker 4: really understand what's happening in the world, you know, and
Speaker 4: like like clearly it's destructive and bad, but it's also
Speaker 4: like kind of beyond comprehension and like certainly in my agency,
Speaker 4: and I'm very interested in cultivating, you know, make having
Speaker 4: the music be really complex, really intense, and really kind
Speaker 4: of like a funnel into contemplation and references in world
Speaker 4: history and like the kinds of things that foster agency,
Speaker 4: you know, like being able to pay attention, being able
Speaker 4: to feel hopeful, like being able to feel like you
Speaker 4: don't know for sure that everything is fucked in a way.
Speaker 4: And then you know, because also politically speaking, like there
Speaker 4: could be a moment where that little bit of agency
Speaker 4: that there is could come and hindy maybe in like
Speaker 4: old school you know versions, like in like early Marks writings,
Speaker 4: you know, the idea what it is that you know,
Speaker 4: capitalism builds up as much productive force as it possibly can,
Speaker 4: and then there's a moment when like it's time to
Speaker 4: like season in the production of it, you know, and
Speaker 4: like that you sort of have to like not miss
Speaker 4: that moment. But yeah, I mean I feel like the world,
Speaker 4: whatever is happening to the world, it's like it isn't
Speaker 4: anything that I think is going to happen, you know,
Speaker 4: It's like and so I don't know. Yeah, the most
Speaker 4: the most one can do is it's kind of hang
Speaker 4: on structures that keep some sort of sense of agency, freedom, hope,
Speaker 4: like beauty love.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think that's interesting because, yeah, that's another
Speaker 3: kind of side of it, where like a lot of
Speaker 3: this could be the result of people, like I said,
Speaker 3: like knowing what's going on and having like an idea
Speaker 3: of what's going on and it being hopeless. But alternatively,
Speaker 3: it could also be people like I don't know what
Speaker 3: the fuck is going on, So I'm going to put
Speaker 3: my faith into these structures that have always existed, that
Speaker 3: are like tried and true to a certain degree, and.
Speaker 1: They reflect like the natural patterns of like the planets
Speaker 1: of the unit like are solar. It's like all of
Speaker 1: this is.
Speaker 3: This is this is sort of the plot of Exorcist
Speaker 3: three a little bit. Why when she jumps out of
Speaker 3: the window, No, Exorcist three, Oh is that two? When't
Speaker 3: she I've actually never seen two because everyone says it's bad,
Speaker 3: but Exorcist three is amazing. It's all about like the
Speaker 3: pillars of society like it's it's like a mystery movie
Speaker 3: where this detective has to figure out who's doing these
Speaker 3: murders that are completely unexplainable, and it's kind of like,
Speaker 3: I guess in a trinitarian sense, it's there's like the
Speaker 3: medical system that is failing this person, and there's like
Speaker 3: it's like the medical system, the police, and religion, you know,
Speaker 3: these three like pillars of society, and like none of
Speaker 3: them can figure out what's going on because it's something cosmic.
Speaker 3: And the main character is like an atheist and he's
Speaker 3: trying to deny that there's anything cosmic happening until the
Speaker 3: end of the movie, where it's like completely undeniable that
Speaker 3: this is absolutely something like cosmic that's happening.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's a really good movie.
Speaker 1: I want to watch that now. I just told that
Speaker 1: to me, Jane.
Speaker 4: I've had something speaking of attention, and I mean, like
Speaker 4: I have such a so much difficulty watching movies based
Speaker 4: for some reason.
Speaker 3: Like really, I saw you post something about David Lynch
Speaker 3: not too long ago.
Speaker 4: Lynch has been dear to me for a very long time.
Speaker 2: So oh, yeah, he's the best.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know, I don't.
Speaker 4: Know if there's some reason, like my my own attention
Speaker 4: span is definitely kind of.
Speaker 2: You're kind of like a zoomer in that regard.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I mean I watched a lot of
Speaker 4: like informational stuff. Do you have, like the family guy
Speaker 4: on the subways? Right now, I'm into this YouTube channel
Speaker 4: called Geography now, which is like it's really big, like
Speaker 4: it has like three million subs, Like it's like bigger
Speaker 4: than my antenna, like and and it's this guy who's
Speaker 4: kind of similar to Fantanda, this kind of like fun
Speaker 4: you know, fast concert, but he's just like.
Speaker 2: But he's reviewing geography. Yeah, and he's like Eastern Siberia
Speaker 2: three out of red Flotel.
Speaker 4: His little theme song and like a little like like
Speaker 4: weird voice, like funny voice, and like like all this
Speaker 4: like really intense cgi going on and like but it's
Speaker 4: it's actually really I don't know right Like my I'm
Speaker 4: gonna check it out because I'm just thinking more and
Speaker 4: more just like oh I need I need to understand
Speaker 4: the world, Like what what's going on in all these
Speaker 4: different places? You know, like and so yeah, I don't
Speaker 4: know anyway. Do you.
Speaker 3: Do you think that maybe your attention span is like
Speaker 3: just shorter for like fictional stuff, but like easier for
Speaker 3: you to like take a like informational stuff like that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess in a way, I guess in a way,
Speaker 4: it's a positive motivation because I think I am learning
Speaker 4: a lot, which is good. But yeah, I feel like
Speaker 4: I there's a deeper kind of attention that goes with
Speaker 4: consuming long form dramas and like that there's this cheapness,
Speaker 4: you know. I don't know if I'm like like passing out,
Speaker 4: like watturing like twelve geography videos in a row half away,
Speaker 4: but that's not real learning. But and yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: There's an emotional ativement that goes with long form drama
Speaker 4: that I yeah, I have difficult to be like.
Speaker 3: Sitting still for too much to commit yourself too. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm certainly like that with TV. I think there's too
Speaker 3: much fucking TV. But I always watched me, Like I
Speaker 3: watched two movies yesterday, Like I'm always watching movies.
Speaker 4: I mean, I really wish that I was doing that, like,
Speaker 4: like I feel like it's really healthy and important.
Speaker 3: I think it's something you go in and out of.
Speaker 3: Like I like there's been like droughts where I don't
Speaker 3: like watch a lot of movies or listen to a
Speaker 3: lot of music, and then like I get back into
Speaker 3: it and I'm just like just consuming all day.
Speaker 4: But I kind of agree that TV. To me, TV
Speaker 4: seems like actually toxic.
Speaker 2: I think it's a puns.
Speaker 3: I think there's definitely a lot of television that is
Speaker 3: worthwhile art, but like I just I think there's like
Speaker 3: too much of it. Like I don't I don't necessarily
Speaker 3: think that a lot of like TV shows justify being
Speaker 3: TV shows.
Speaker 2: I think they could just be like a movie and
Speaker 2: you just won and done.
Speaker 1: Like there are some movies though that I think should
Speaker 1: be TV shows, Like maybe Doctor Sleep should have been
Speaker 1: a fucking mini series.
Speaker 2: Okay, I watched May December last night.
Speaker 3: I could I could have watched like twelve, I could
Speaker 3: have watched hours of that movie.
Speaker 1: I want to watch it. I want to watch it.
Speaker 1: It's just such a creepy content. I remember when that
Speaker 1: was in the news, Like that was here in Georgia.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. No, it was actually in Seattle, but they
Speaker 1: set it in Savannah. They set the movie in Savannah.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, I thought that lady was from Georgia.
Speaker 2: I don't know, that's what my boyfriend told me, but.
Speaker 4: Was supposed to be a TV suit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's very interesting to me.
Speaker 3: I don't I mean, David Lynch is good, like obviously
Speaker 3: you made Twin Peaks, which is a great tea TV show.
Speaker 3: It's probably the best TV show of all time. Yes,
Speaker 3: but yeah, I don't know. I Maul Holland Drive also
Speaker 3: is my favorite, like like gun to my head, like
Speaker 3: I always say, like that's my favorite movie.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, I'm curious.
Speaker 3: I wonder what that world would look like living in
Speaker 3: and the Mulhallan Drive TV show.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know if that would have like resonated with
Speaker 3: me as hard it being like a long form thing
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: But this is a part time movie podcast, by the way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we love talking about movies.
Speaker 4: Too.
Speaker 2: To just start making them, Yeah, oh I think they
Speaker 2: already are.
Speaker 3: Are I'm not fully convinced that a lot of the
Speaker 3: like kind of you know, Superhero cape shit stuff out
Speaker 3: there isn't at least partially written developed in some way
Speaker 3: by artificial intelligence.
Speaker 4: Well you saw that, I mean you saw a South
Speaker 4: Park thing right, Like I did not know. I mean,
Speaker 4: I mean they have like a.
Speaker 1: So you watch South Park, so you hate trans.
Speaker 4: That's not what I meant, and then we always But
Speaker 4: I also I have seen some stuff like, uh.
Speaker 2: I love I love Sealth Park.
Speaker 4: There's there's like an AI TV show making tool that
Speaker 4: was kind of trending a couple of months ago, and
Speaker 4: the demo was South Park and they were they did
Speaker 4: they were doing generative procedural Soft Park episodes and it
Speaker 4: really was not that much different like it was. It
Speaker 4: was like kind of like pretty much just as funny
Speaker 4: as South Park.
Speaker 1: How many times did Kenny die?
Speaker 4: Five million times? I mean, maybe AI making Jared aren't
Speaker 4: like succeeding in making kind of media for art will
Speaker 4: just kind of raise the bar for real art.
Speaker 2: No, that's a very good point.
Speaker 3: I've never actually really thought of that, but yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean there's a really cool Nick Cave quote that I
Speaker 3: want to pull up about AI and how like the
Speaker 3: whole thing about like making art is that it's meant
Speaker 3: to be channeling something human, you know, like it's meant
Speaker 3: to be human.
Speaker 2: Life threshing them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's something that like even if an AI could
Speaker 3: conceivably make something that like resembles like real art, at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, people that like art aren't
Speaker 3: going to want that because we want something that's human,
Speaker 3: something that's flawed, something that you can relate to, and
Speaker 3: you can't relate to a machine. Like I mean, if
Speaker 3: anything that's very like insulting to like compare human life
Speaker 3: to you know, something that just like a machine can do.
Speaker 3: How would you feel about an AI liturgy song? What
Speaker 3: if it was like really good?
Speaker 4: I mean there's well, I mean, like years ago they
Speaker 4: already you know, they made that, like AI Pallas album
Speaker 4: and Ai Doinger.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I do remember that.
Speaker 4: Because those were not that like like like it sounded
Speaker 4: like like the Doinger one sense a lot like Donder.
Speaker 3: Yeah and krallis being so like, I don't know, like
Speaker 3: the way they sound like, I could see that like
Speaker 3: translating into something that like I don't know, like I
Speaker 3: could see like a robot like kind of learning how
Speaker 3: to do that.
Speaker 2: I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I would Yeah, but I guess that's what
Speaker 4: I mean, Like if I guess I would feel it's
Speaker 4: pretty just what you said, like like as if it
Speaker 4: were to become really easy to just feed energy's back
Speaker 4: catalog into an AR and then generate new stuff that
Speaker 4: was very similar to it that would just inspire me
Speaker 4: to do something different from that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, go ahead and make AI. It'll just make me
Speaker 3: grind harder.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's almost like it's almost like we're learning
Speaker 4: what we still don't really know what it is to
Speaker 4: be human in a lot of ways, you know, And
Speaker 4: so like the more AI steals from us of what
Speaker 4: we thought was human, the more we can come in
Speaker 4: on what really is human.
Speaker 5: Maybe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like the every like doomer thing we've brought up.
Speaker 3: You've found a way to like like, oh pull, that's
Speaker 3: very That's what our listeners need to hear. Honestly, we
Speaker 3: used to have a segment where we talked.
Speaker 2: About why we hated here.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, we did full disclosure. I do think
Speaker 4: that was the most likely thing is it's a will
Speaker 4: collapse and it would be really terrible. So I'm gonna
Speaker 4: say that because they do, because there is I mean,
Speaker 4: because maybe not.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I want to change the subject a little bit.
Speaker 1: I want to so obviously, like I said, I Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm new. I'm a new fan of liturgy, and I
Speaker 1: did some research and like Janie said, there is some
Speaker 1: like people have some like hatred for the band for
Speaker 1: whatever reason. And and like you said, that's because you
Speaker 1: bring like different els of like religion and love into
Speaker 1: your music, which I definitely felt. And that's a reason
Speaker 1: why I personally have like avoided black metal because it's
Speaker 1: usually so like hateful and like heavy and dark, whereas
Speaker 1: this felt so much like like we set up. I
Speaker 1: don't want to use the term uplifting, but Janey said ascending,
Speaker 1: you know, but like uplifting makes me think of like gospel.
Speaker 4: Means it's a mix of dark and uplifting for sure, Like, yeah,
Speaker 4: sometimes it's easy to forget, forget.
Speaker 1: That how much? Yeah, yeah, it is someone.
Speaker 4: Who doesn't listen to metal, like it's pretty brutal.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite albums is Sousing in the Banshees
Speaker 1: the Rapture, the very last album, and that for me
Speaker 1: personally is like kind of uh, I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's what that sounds about me, but it says that
Speaker 1: you're trans and gay, trans and gay and fucking lame
Speaker 1: because I don't listen to anything new. But how much
Speaker 1: do you do you feel like? And I feel like
Speaker 1: this happens a lot. I feel like people will find
Speaker 1: like one thing that they don't like about a trans woman.
Speaker 1: And maybe I'm maybe I don't know if you feel
Speaker 1: like it's not fair for me to bring trans women
Speaker 1: into that. But I feel like a lot of times
Speaker 1: people will find one thing about a trans woman that
Speaker 1: they don't like to completely write off what they do,
Speaker 1: what their talents are. Does that ever feel like in
Speaker 1: your experience and that happens to you?
Speaker 4: It's hard to say. I mean, I think that something
Speaker 4: that happens to women in general, like American female politicians,
Speaker 4: you know that they have harm time, you know, and
Speaker 4: like it's like you see a woman like in a
Speaker 4: place of power or something kind of like calling the shots,
Speaker 4: and it's just like, you know, if the man were
Speaker 4: doing it, it would be like, oh, yes, of course,
Speaker 4: thanks for being so strong with the woman doing it,
Speaker 4: Like what is this bitch thinks she is? And like
Speaker 4: and like everyone is like that, you know, you know,
Speaker 4: and there's a lot of trans book in the world,
Speaker 4: for sure. I think that, like.
Speaker 2: And I don't.
Speaker 1: I think people are sometimes not upfront with like the
Speaker 1: fact that they don't like somebody because they're trends, so
Speaker 1: they'll find like some other reasons, yeah, or a woman
Speaker 1: just to be like, well fuck them entirely, you know.
Speaker 1: And when I was researching, I mean when I was
Speaker 1: looking at you and learning about who you were, I
Speaker 1: was reading just stupid you know, stupid people online and
Speaker 1: just being like, wow, people are dumb.
Speaker 4: Like I think, I think there's the way that people
Speaker 4: have of like not even realize that like forming a
Speaker 4: boys club and not really realizing that they're doing it
Speaker 4: by sort of skat goading the more emotional outsider or
Speaker 4: something just like very unconscious sort of way of like
Speaker 4: doing like in group out of group signaling that like
Speaker 4: you don't even know that you're doing because part of
Speaker 4: any music community is you know, like it's also people
Speaker 4: sort of trying to like have a friend group and
Speaker 4: sort of likes in that friend group, and like you know,
Speaker 4: like that's like that that that's a very complicated thing
Speaker 4: that you know.
Speaker 1: You sort of like a congregation a little bit.
Speaker 4: You have a psychoanalytics sort of you know approach to
Speaker 4: where like there you know, there needs to be if
Speaker 4: there needs to be like a master, and there needs
Speaker 4: to be escape good and an outsider, and there's you know,
Speaker 4: an object of desire and like you know, people are
Speaker 4: sort of you know, displaying themselves and saying things to
Speaker 4: form alliances, and you know, I mean, I mean, the
Speaker 4: world is a really complicated place with a lot of
Speaker 4: unconscious forces. Like we're so like conscious of so much
Speaker 4: of what we do, I mean, and that can be
Speaker 4: true in freer communities too, you know, like like like
Speaker 4: it's not it's not like the straight world. I mean,
Speaker 4: like I mean, metal magazines still don't cover liturgy almost
Speaker 4: at all. And I think generally, I think it's because
Speaker 4: like a lot of the journalists really like the band,
Speaker 4: but like they just don't quite want to go to
Speaker 4: bat for it, you know, because yeah, you know, but
Speaker 4: but I don't know, because it's also like I mean,
Speaker 4: there are more and more clear metal bands, and so
Speaker 4: I think that the culture is changing, and so you know,
Speaker 4: that's a really wonderful thing. It's so much different. I mean,
Speaker 4: it's it is so much different now than it was
Speaker 4: ten years ago or like fIF ten years ago. But
Speaker 4: I did but anyway, but I don't mean to say
Speaker 4: no by any means to what you're asking either. But
Speaker 4: I also don't mind because I also, you know, again,
Speaker 4: I also kind of understand people being that because because
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't mind, Like I don't, I don't
Speaker 4: totally MND you know, like why why not make people nah.
Speaker 1: A little bit uncomfortable?
Speaker 2: I think the same.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I also think like if someone wants to write
Speaker 3: me off for being trans, I don't want them as
Speaker 3: a fan anyway, Like I don't, like, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I also I feel like at this point, like trans people,
Speaker 3: I mean really especially trans women, no offense guys, but
Speaker 3: like trans women are crushing the music world right now.
Speaker 3: Like I mean, there's so many trans women that are
Speaker 3: like the fucking best at their respective genre.
Speaker 2: I feel like, like.
Speaker 3: Sophie like undeniably like the greatest producer of our time
Speaker 3: in my opinion, And I just I feel like it
Speaker 3: was something that like if you respect music, you know, music,
Speaker 3: it's something that like you have to like see and accept.
Speaker 3: And as far as like metal goes, like yeah, you're right,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of trans people in metal, and there's
Speaker 3: a lot of like I don't know, like just trans
Speaker 3: people in general are just like really on the cutting edge,
Speaker 3: like by and large and really always have been.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Part of that, like, in my opinion, there's kind of
Speaker 3: like a two part thing where like one, I feel
Speaker 3: like it kind of like commands respect in a way
Speaker 3: that's like good because I I don't know, maybe this
Speaker 3: is like too optimistic of me, but like I feel
Speaker 3: like a lot of people that like aren't necessarily like hateful,
Speaker 3: but are maybe like ignorant towards like trans people and
Speaker 3: like queer people in general, like they could be they
Speaker 3: could become more open minded by being like, oh, well
Speaker 3: I really liked against me and now Laura Jane Grace
Speaker 3: is trans and I respect her as a musician, So
Speaker 3: it might kind of like soften people's hearts in a
Speaker 3: way that otherwise might not. So I don't know, there's
Speaker 3: like there's yeah, there's what you said that There's definitely
Speaker 3: going to be people who are just like bigoted and
Speaker 3: are like, oh this this is a woke band.
Speaker 2: And I'm writing this off immediately because.
Speaker 1: The Black Rifle coffee drinker, Yeah.
Speaker 3: She's trans, Therefore this band's woke and it's bad. But
Speaker 3: there's also going to be plenty of people that like
Speaker 3: what you do and respect what you do and your transness.
Speaker 3: If anything is going to be like kind of something
Speaker 3: that will maybe make them a better person. You know,
Speaker 3: like maybe make them less inclined to write off queer
Speaker 3: people in general.
Speaker 2: Do you have any thoughts on that maybe.
Speaker 4: I mean I think that that that's a great point,
Speaker 4: and it also leads to another part of the point,
Speaker 4: which is that, you know, it's much easier to be
Speaker 4: a trans musician or artist than a trans anything else,
Speaker 4: you know, like like like oh, you're a transmusian, okay, whatever,
Speaker 4: you know, Oh you're a trans artist, great, you know,
Speaker 4: like I love you know, but like, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: It's easier than being a trans bartender, I'll tell you that, yeah.
Speaker 4: Or like a trans like lawyer, you know, or judge.
Speaker 4: People don't really let trans people have real power, and
Speaker 4: so it's like if you're sort of an entertainer, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think of myself as like an entertainer,
Speaker 4: you know, but like we are kind of like cordoned off.
Speaker 4: Like there's still transphobia in the arts for sure, but
Speaker 4: like yeah, and also in some ways it can make
Speaker 4: it easier, you know, but like it's you know, that's
Speaker 4: a world where it's accepted relatively, you know, but like
Speaker 4: having your hands on levers of power of some kind,
Speaker 4: like like people like they don't like you don't let
Speaker 4: transform men do it, and and and and that, and
Speaker 4: that's you know, that's not something that people really talk
Speaker 4: about in a way, you know, like my like like
Speaker 4: I don't mean these days, I don't think about being
Speaker 4: trans all that much. I really like one thing that's
Speaker 4: nice is to have traveled so much this year and
Speaker 4: to have traveled like all over the world, you know,
Speaker 4: like all over the world basically you know, any country
Speaker 4: that like it's fairly normal for a rock band to
Speaker 4: go play like we played in you know, and like
Speaker 4: I didn't encounter Penn Shybia once like like not once
Speaker 4: like not. I mean maybe there was maybe there was
Speaker 4: transphobic pops that people had or something like that, but
Speaker 4: like no no one at shows or no one at
Speaker 4: airports or at you know, no cashiers, like no one,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So and you didn't get the famous TSA pat down
Speaker 1: at any point.
Speaker 4: I got, but like people were really you know, they
Speaker 4: were like, yeah, I mean anyway, there was no It
Speaker 4: was actually a lot better than I expect, to be honest,
Speaker 4: because you don't really know it's like okay, if I
Speaker 4: go to Poland, like what's going to happen, you know,
Speaker 4: like you know, and it was like all just fine,
Speaker 4: and like, there are so many people out there who
Speaker 4: just like don't. Yeah, I do like the idea of
Speaker 4: just kind of being an emissary for being trans, just
Speaker 4: being completely normal, because that's all it is, you know,
Speaker 4: it's just normal, and there's so many people who just
Speaker 4: like happen to not know that, and like, you know,
Speaker 4: especially older people like I like, I find generally like
Speaker 4: people who are in their forties or whatever even that
Speaker 4: I know, don't they just don't understand being trans. And
Speaker 4: you know, most most younger people, regardless of their political orientation,
Speaker 4: you understand it way better. You know, like it's kind
Speaker 4: of something that's just gone to shake out because anybody
Speaker 4: who's like, you know, seventeen or something just knows the
Speaker 4: trans people are normal.
Speaker 1: I've just been bombarded with like yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a lot of people have trans friends,
Speaker 3: trans coworkers, like yeah, it's it's certainly, but but there's
Speaker 3: no trans people, which is exactly yeah, yeah, but I've
Speaker 3: never been arrested by a trans woman.
Speaker 2: Can we fix that?
Speaker 4: Exactly? What's the trans cop?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I agree, and that's that's definitely something I've said a
Speaker 3: lot too, is that my my transness is very It's
Speaker 3: something I don't think about a lot.
Speaker 4: Like I don't know how many trans people I would
Speaker 4: know for but I do kind of connect better with
Speaker 4: trans women than anything else. Like it's like, oh, there's
Speaker 4: there's another person just like me, and like, uh, it's nice,
Speaker 4: nice sister for me to kind of find that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: You you have played with a few of like my
Speaker 3: favorite artists working right now, Boa and the hero Is
Speaker 3: Collective who I actually saw and met Jenna like week ago.
Speaker 2: Shout out to them. I love them a lot.
Speaker 4: Okay, that's awesome. Uh, underscore that the Boa is awesome.
Speaker 2: She is, she rolls. I want to hear some new
Speaker 2: music from herself.
Speaker 6: We we hung out for a bunch, you know, in
Speaker 6: Australia actually because my I did a philosophy seminar in
Speaker 6: Melbourne after our Melbourne show that was three days long
Speaker 6: and that's where she lives and came to it, and uh,
Speaker 6: it was like super involved and.
Speaker 4: I mean it's nice. It's I don't know why that
Speaker 4: is exactly what it is about, like whether there's even
Speaker 4: a correlation or not, but it seems like a lot
Speaker 4: of the trans people I know who are into experimental
Speaker 4: music are also more likely to be into philosophy, and
Speaker 4: uh so, like like like she's an example of someone
Speaker 4: who you know, I can like spend hours like discussing
Speaker 4: bagel and well or whatever with.
Speaker 3: I did have one more question in my notes if
Speaker 3: we have time, But what do you think that is?
Speaker 3: Like what do you think it is about, like being
Speaker 3: queer or being trans that like draw because there is
Speaker 3: a lot of trans people that really like black metal
Speaker 3: and grindcore and like horror movies and shit. And do
Speaker 3: you have a theory as to why that is?
Speaker 4: I mean, maybe there's something about a kind of baseline
Speaker 4: of alienation one experiences that like makes that kind of
Speaker 4: Catharsis makes sense or something like I feel like I've
Speaker 4: had to wonder about like why things are the way
Speaker 4: they are more than a lot of people maybe you know,
Speaker 4: and and that sense of just like what what is
Speaker 4: it that's not working? You know, like why like why
Speaker 4: isn't this easier? I don't know. I mean everyone experiences
Speaker 4: that I don't know definitely know anyone else's experience is
Speaker 4: like that.
Speaker 3: But there's something unique to like the trans experience that
Speaker 3: like other like, you know, if if you don't have
Speaker 3: like gender dysphoria, if you don't have like I don't know,
Speaker 3: if you've never had that like splinter in your mind
Speaker 3: to quote the matrix, then yeah I could definitely Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I go.
Speaker 4: I sort of I sort of like feel bad for
Speaker 4: anyone who's never gone through the experience of gender transition,
Speaker 4: like because it feels so natural to be you know,
Speaker 4: it's like, okay, like the whole world is addressing me
Speaker 4: as this one gender and now like now now we're
Speaker 4: going to switch, you know, and like just kind of
Speaker 4: seeing that that that can be a contingent thing and
Speaker 4: that it's not set in stone is like I feel
Speaker 4: like it sort of teaches you. It gives you an
Speaker 4: experience of just how much like anything can change or something,
Speaker 4: you know, how how non natural a lot of things
Speaker 4: that we take to be natural.
Speaker 3: I think that's a very hopeful note to end things on.
Speaker 3: This was a lot more like I don't know, I know.
Speaker 2: That you're.
Speaker 3: A very peaceful person, but like this still was just
Speaker 3: a very like don't it was very hopeful conversation. But
Speaker 3: I'm very glad that you came on the show to
Speaker 3: talk with us about.
Speaker 4: Thanks, thanks so much.
Speaker 1: Wow, she really took us down a cerebral path there, Jane.
Speaker 2: I love cerebral paths.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think it would be a good idea for our
Speaker 3: listeners to kill all those brain cells that they just
Speaker 3: grew by by taking some calls, because I always think
Speaker 3: it's a good idea to give your brain cells like
Speaker 3: a little haircut, you know, like after you read War
Speaker 3: and Peace, you have to like watch like Writt and Stimpy, Yeah,
Speaker 3: to balance it out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Nettie is like the innocent version of Ritten Stimpy.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I could have thought of something dumber.
Speaker 3: Probably Neddie is a little even too too cerebral for me.
Speaker 1: I love some of the episodes, those cerebral episodes about
Speaker 1: it Nettie, the one where they take the outlines away, you.
Speaker 2: Know that one. Oh yeah that is cool. Yeah, this's
Speaker 2: pretty cool. Actually fucking bind reality.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, well let's let's bend some realities and take
Speaker 3: some calls from our listeners.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Hi, my name is Violet. I'm twenty two year old
Speaker 5: trans woman being in the South, and I'm calling because
Speaker 5: me and my girlfriend don't have sex anymore. We started
Speaker 5: dating before my transition, and we've been together the whole thing.
Speaker 5: We used to have sex, like crazy, very straight, normal sex.
Speaker 5: And I've been transitioning for about two years now, and
Speaker 5: I'd say we have sex maybe, I don't know, once
Speaker 5: every two months. It's not the best. I don't really
Speaker 5: know what to do, and I don't know if it's
Speaker 5: a fixable situation. And a lot of times I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 5: I don't know. I mean, we could chuck me right now.
Speaker 5: Oh good, But she's just kind of all the time,
Speaker 5: like she's just very sleepy. And sometimes I think about
Speaker 5: my coworker and I think about putting his stake in
Speaker 5: my mouth. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, what what happened at the end of the
Speaker 1: wait threw me a curveball.
Speaker 3: I have a lot of thoughts on this actually, because look,
Speaker 3: I'll just say this, baby, sweetheart, darling, sweet baby, sweetness,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go out on a limit. I mean, you
Speaker 3: said this was straight sex before, and assume that this
Speaker 3: is a CIS girl that you were dating.
Speaker 1: Before likes sis men or you know men.
Speaker 3: Look, I'm just gonna say this, like I've I've experienced
Speaker 3: this in my personal life I've seen this in other
Speaker 3: people's relationships, but it's really not an uncommon story at
Speaker 3: all for a transfeminine person to who's dated. Like so
Speaker 3: I mean this this basically is my story. Like I
Speaker 3: dated like CIS women like my whole life. I can't
Speaker 3: out while I was dating a SIS woman, my SIS
Speaker 3: partner was for the most part, really supportive, you know, supportive,
Speaker 3: so she could have been. But as your body changes
Speaker 3: and also as you know, I mean, it's a hard
Speaker 3: thing to square because like I don't really hold it
Speaker 3: against a CIS woman for like doing everything she can
Speaker 3: being supportive, but at the end of the day, like
Speaker 3: she like wants to date her boyfriends, you know, like
Speaker 3: she doesn't necessary Like I don't know, like there's no
Speaker 3: really Like I'm trying to say this like as delicately
Speaker 3: as possible, because I have seen relationships where someone transitioned
Speaker 3: and then they stay together a long time and it's
Speaker 3: it's worked out for the most part. But by and large,
Speaker 3: I see a lot of transfend people just kind of
Speaker 3: drift from their CIS female partner because I mean, because
Speaker 3: of a lot of reasons, like everything it's different, Like
Speaker 3: your partner didn't really like plan on signing up for
Speaker 3: a lesbian relationship, and a lot of times like you
Speaker 3: can see them kind of feign excitement there, like ooh,
Speaker 3: I get to be bisexual now, and there's a lot
Speaker 3: of sexuality. Yeah, and there's a lot of like I
Speaker 3: don't know, I just I don't like. This is just
Speaker 3: a stupid podcast. So I don't want to like tell
Speaker 3: you to break up with your girlfriends or anything.
Speaker 1: Oh, you know, we can't tell anyone to break up ptunity.
Speaker 2: This is not financial advice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I really I gotta be honest with you, baby,
Speaker 3: Like I think you really need to like take a
Speaker 3: look at your relationship right now. I think you need
Speaker 3: to have a very like tough conversation with your partner.
Speaker 3: Another thing that I always like, this is one of
Speaker 3: the truest things and like any relationships, is that sex
Speaker 3: is the first thing to go when a relationship is
Speaker 3: like near its end, it's the first thing to go,
Speaker 3: Like if you find yourselves like masturbating separately, or like
Speaker 3: if you maybe are exploring like open options and stuff
Speaker 3: that aren't quite as exciting to the other partner. No
Speaker 3: matter what it is, having sex less should always be
Speaker 3: like a warning sign red flag for anyone in a relationship.
Speaker 3: It just sounds like to me that you need to
Speaker 3: have a serious conversation, like with your partner about what
Speaker 3: she wants out of this relationship, because I mean, it's
Speaker 3: very possible that she is very supportive and she does
Speaker 3: love you, and it just might not be completely in
Speaker 3: the cards. And also I think also not just to
Speaker 3: put this all on her, I've also seen a lot
Speaker 3: of like transferm partners with their like sis girlfriend that
Speaker 3: they came out with and the trans girl like is
Speaker 3: as their body changes, they're like, oh shit, I've never
Speaker 3: experienced this whole life of like hoeing it up, sucking
Speaker 3: guys dix hooking up with other guys, hooking up with
Speaker 3: trans people. You know, like there's a whole like sexual
Speaker 3: world out there that you're probably like feeling a bit
Speaker 3: like isolated from.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, she said she wanted to suck her coworker's dead.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she didn't have to throw that in there at
Speaker 3: the end, but she did. So Yeah, I'd say, if
Speaker 3: you want to stay with her, first of all, I
Speaker 3: need I think you need to find out the answer
Speaker 3: to that yourself first. If you want to actually stay
Speaker 3: in a committed relationship with this person, and then two
Speaker 3: decide if you want it to be, like maybe if
Speaker 3: you want to try like opening your relationship or what.
Speaker 3: But I feel like a lot of this is going
Speaker 3: to begin with a conversation that you are going to
Speaker 3: fucking hate. Yeah, And I can't help you all that
Speaker 3: much with that, but that's my advice. Yeah, which is
Speaker 3: what people avoid. They have with that tough conversation and
Speaker 3: it just goes on forever and ever and ever, you know,
Speaker 3: and yeah, and ultimately you got to have that tough conversation.
Speaker 2: Do we want to take the next call?
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 7: This is more like a platonic thing. But I feel
Speaker 7: like a lot of my friends from college only want
Speaker 7: to hang out by just like trilling at somebody's house
Speaker 7: and like eating dinner and watching shit on TV or whatever,
Speaker 7: and like that finds per me. But I feel like
Speaker 7: as I am getting older, I'm having trouble maintaining friendships
Speaker 7: for people don't want to like go out and do
Speaker 7: ship because I.
Speaker 1: Want to go out?
Speaker 7: What do I do?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 5: Girls, what do I?
Speaker 7: I want to stay friends with these people, but like
Speaker 7: what do.
Speaker 2: I You're boring? Ass friends? Snooze alert.
Speaker 3: You want to stay home and watch anatomy of a fall,
Speaker 3: Get the fuck out. No, no, you gotta, baby, you
Speaker 3: gotta go to the club. You gotta try drugs that
Speaker 3: you can only do with your nose. You gotta you
Speaker 3: gotta uh be scared to leave your drink unattended.
Speaker 2: You gotta like.
Speaker 3: You will make friends if you start like living like
Speaker 3: a sleazy like Paul Schrader esque life, like, if you
Speaker 3: do some lou reed walk on the wild side, you
Speaker 3: will make friends, baby like. And those friends, I promise you,
Speaker 3: they're gonna be the worst friends you've ever met in
Speaker 3: your life.
Speaker 2: They're tear buy and large, horrible.
Speaker 3: People, and they will influence your life in truly negative ways.
Speaker 2: So it's great, it's what I do.
Speaker 3: I can't really recommend it at all. I'm really depressed
Speaker 3: all the time. Milea's falling apart, and I don't have
Speaker 3: any money. But yeah, at least my friends aren't boring.
Speaker 1: That's how you know. Jane and I are and she
Speaker 1: never ever calls me ever for a movie.
Speaker 3: Don't give me that. I'm about to call in to
Speaker 3: the helpline, be like, my friend is so mean to me.
Speaker 2: I don't want to watch.
Speaker 1: A movie with you, Janey, That's all I want to do.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I have a hard time relating to this.
Speaker 1: I am not a going out girl. I am the
Speaker 1: girl who is thirty and looking for friends that want
Speaker 1: to eat food at home, watch a movie and just
Speaker 1: that's honestly not like a vegetable with me. Did the
Speaker 1: caller say how old she was, because I would say.
Speaker 3: Like, if you're in your early twenties, like, hell yeah,
Speaker 3: that's boring as fuck.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like when I was like up until I was maybe
Speaker 3: like twenty eight, like I was just addicted to the rage,
Speaker 3: Like I was going out all the time.
Speaker 2: Now I usually just go out like once on the weekend.
Speaker 1: Okay, well let me ask you this.
Speaker 2: But I real quick.
Speaker 3: I love I love having nice little like all like
Speaker 3: dinner parties and stuff like that. Like I do enjoy that.
Speaker 3: But I do also get like if your friends like
Speaker 3: never want to go out, You're like, come on, like
Speaker 3: it's such and such as birthday, it's this holiday it's
Speaker 3: like and everyone's like, no, we're gonna do the same
Speaker 3: thing we always do. That is very boring. My honest
Speaker 3: advice in this situation would be, I feel like there's
Speaker 3: got to be someone in the friend group that is
Speaker 3: feeling the same way you do, and I feel like
Speaker 3: you got to get closer to them, because I've I've
Speaker 3: had friend groups like this, or at least i've like,
Speaker 3: no like people like this. And what you have to
Speaker 3: do is just find the ones that also kind of
Speaker 3: feel the same way and start asking them out and
Speaker 3: start going out with them, mentoring drinks with them and stuff.
Speaker 3: And then either you'll make new friends while you're going out,
Speaker 3: or your old friend group will will if it have
Speaker 3: no choice but to follow you out.
Speaker 1: I just want to say, when I was a kid
Speaker 1: and I was looking around the club, the people that
Speaker 1: were old to me were the weirdest fucking people.
Speaker 2: Oh they're losers, they are. Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that time that what's his name showed
Speaker 1: up to that house show?
Speaker 2: No, the actor Andy Dick. Are you talking about Dick?
Speaker 1: He showed up to the house show and it was
Speaker 1: like I was at that same venue like a week before,
Speaker 1: and he like showed up. You know, it's just that one.
Speaker 3: I don't really know what you're related all that much, but.
Speaker 1: But that's just weird. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: To be the one like forty year old guy at
Speaker 1: the at the club.
Speaker 2: Well it's I don't know, it depends. It's like he
Speaker 2: really does.
Speaker 3: If you go somewhere that like it's like a bar
Speaker 3: that old people hang out at. That's like sweet, it's
Speaker 3: like cool, Like it's like the Median Age, like it's fifty.
Speaker 3: The Earl in East Atlanta Village is a very kind
Speaker 3: of like older people place. Like that wasn't a joke.
Speaker 3: Older people hang out there, Like it's that's where older
Speaker 3: people hang out.
Speaker 1: I feel like Kurt hangs out there. Kurt, do you
Speaker 1: hang out there?
Speaker 3: I hang out there? I like the girl I this
Speaker 3: is getting like I'm just saying, like there's not no
Speaker 3: what is that.
Speaker 1: Johnny's Hideaway?
Speaker 2: I think I know what you're getting at that, Like.
Speaker 3: There is like a certain age where it's like come on,
Speaker 3: like you're still out here with like twenty year old
Speaker 3: drinking every night, Like there is like, yeah, there is
Speaker 3: something like weird about that. I don't think that really
Speaker 3: applies to this call that much though, because like no,
Speaker 3: I think if they're I think if they're like young
Speaker 3: and like want to party, I look jokes aside, you know,
Speaker 3: I encourage that like life is fucking short, and I
Speaker 3: think that you should have fun.
Speaker 1: And like also if your friend group is a bunch
Speaker 1: of lesbian women bisexual women, I would branch out and
Speaker 1: find some gay men to be friends with. Because gay
Speaker 1: men want to go out all the fucking time. I
Speaker 1: don't know who wants to fucking stay at home and
Speaker 1: watch a movie.
Speaker 3: That's true too, and that anecdote I just said, like
Speaker 3: it was about like finding the one person in the group.
Speaker 3: It was usually like the gay guy that was like,
Speaker 3: you know, actually I do want to go out. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, girl, I think you deserve to have fun.
Speaker 3: And yeah, just like I will say though, like just
Speaker 3: do know if this isn't something you've done a lot,
Speaker 3: like it does kind of get old like it does
Speaker 3: like you can get burnt out, and like Carmon said,
Speaker 3: you don't want to end up being like the old
Speaker 3: the old person there that's always hanging out and it's like,
Speaker 3: what are you doing? Man, don't you have kids? Like
Speaker 3: I don't know if you can really like convince because
Speaker 3: some people are just boring, Like some people like do
Speaker 3: just want to like have missionary sex and watch the
Speaker 3: Office like that's just what they like I want that,
Speaker 3: and you know, there's nothing wrong with that either. But yeah,
Speaker 3: i'd say, you just gotta really, you just got to
Speaker 3: find one person because like when you're going out, people
Speaker 3: are social, people will talk to you like you you
Speaker 3: sound you sounded fun. I feel like you know each
Speaker 3: other and we're best friends now, so we can go
Speaker 3: out sometimes.
Speaker 2: Hit us up.
Speaker 1: That was fun. I feel like we actually did genuinely
Speaker 1: help some people today, which is kind of a first
Speaker 1: for the pod. You know, Yeah, so let's celebrate that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's go out. Let's go out and celebrate thought. If
Speaker 1: you invite me, I will go out. But call us
Speaker 1: and you may hear your voicemail on next week's episode,
Speaker 1: call Us at our Beauty translated leveline, which is.
Speaker 3: Six seven eight five six one two seven eight five.
Speaker 3: For whatever problems you have, will make them worse. And also,
Speaker 3: you know, if you got anything you just want to
Speaker 3: like brag about, like any like hot gossip or tea
Speaker 3: or something like that, it doesn't always necessarily have to
Speaker 3: be like I'm having this problem, we're sex with my
Speaker 3: If you if you just have like a spicy, juicy
Speaker 3: topic for us, like hit us with that too, well.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in this week's episode,
Speaker 1: and we're so excited for next week's episode. It's going
Speaker 1: to be our homies from the Ant Show.
Speaker 3: Yes, oh yes, we go from our most intellectual episode
Speaker 3: to easily the dumbest ones.
Speaker 2: I can't wait for you all to hear that.
Speaker 3: If y'all were repulsed at the UH at all the big,
Speaker 3: big words we used here.
Speaker 2: Don't worry. We're going to be using a lot of
Speaker 2: tiny ones on the next episode.
Speaker 1: So a lot of tiny ones, but big concepts for
Speaker 1: you to wrap your brain around.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that concepts.
Speaker 2: That is true. That is true.
Speaker 3: So stay tuned for our episode with UH with our
Speaker 3: friends at.
Speaker 2: The hit show. Stay beautiful, y'all, Stay beautiful.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Beauty Translated. Beauty Translated is
Speaker 1: hosted by me Carmen Laurel and Janie Danger.
Speaker 3: Produced by Kurt Garon and Jess Crunchinch so special thanks
Speaker 3: to Ali Perry and Ali Cantor. Our theme music is
Speaker 3: done by Aaron Kauffman and Beauty Translated as proud to
Speaker 3: be a part of the Outspoken Network from iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 1: For more iHeart podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.