WEBVTT - Becoming Transcendental: with Haela Hunt Hendrix 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:10.800 Hello, Hello, welcome to another episode of Beauty Translated. This week. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:14.400 We're very excited we're talking to one of james dear friends. 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:16.360 So proud to say that. 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.360 Yeah, so take it away, Jennie, tell us about who 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:20.200 we're talking to today. 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:20.640 Yeah. 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:24.400 So, I've been really fucking excited about doing this ever 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.280 since you asked me to join the show. We're talking 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:32.160 to Hala Hunt Hendricks, otherwise known as the main mastermind 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:37.200 behind the transcendental avant garde black metal music outfit Liturgy. 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:43.280 Her music and her writings and philosophical mindset means a 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:45.200 lot to me. So this is someone I'm a big 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:49.280 fan of, someone I'm very honored to call a friend. 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.080 If you're not familiar with us and you're just here 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:56.600 to hear Hala speak, I am very happy to have you. 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:58.600 I really walked. 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.440 Away feeling inspired in a way that like, honestly is 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.199 the reason why I she took us to church. Yeah, 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:07.679 I mean, it's the reason why I was like so 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:09.840 drawn to her music in the first place, is because 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:14.400 it's so immense and uncompromising, and it's something that like 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:20.000 reforms the way my brain sees music, art philosophy, And 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.240 I know that this is like hyping this up a lot, 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:30.240 so please enjoy Beauty Transcendental Black Metal Edition with Halo Hantendrix. 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:40.400 Hell yeah, Jamie, take it away. 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:45.160 Hi, I'm so glad to talk to you again. I'm 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.040 a little shit Like You're a very easy person to 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:50.640 talk to, but like there's just like a lot that, 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.760 like I don't know, there's a lot about you, there's 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:55.520 a lot about your art, and there's a lot that 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:59.400 I kind of want to get to and discuss. And 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:04.320 I feel like our audience might not be like entirely 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:06.920 familiar with you and what you do. So would you 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:10.160 maybe want to like introduce yourself like a little bit and. 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:11.480 What you do and what you've been up too lately. 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:18.200 Sure, Well, it's just I know that you're like a 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.040 musician and you but you've had your hand in like 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:24.120 a lot of different pots lately. I've seen you doing 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.360 like live art and like sculptures and got like a 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.160 new art exhibition and stuff like that. 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:32.840 I wanted to say if I could, like Jane introduced 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:34.720 me to you for the first time. I had never 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:37.880 listened to liturgy. I am not somebody who is a 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.720 I do not listen to metal However, I did listen 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:47.079 to your entire catalog this morning and I loved it. 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.560 I listened to it on three time speed. Is that okay? 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.880 I'm kidding, I didn't really, No, no no. I listened 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:56.600 to the most recent album, and I love the most 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:57.760 recent album. 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.600 I do like how it sounds better. Effects is like 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.760 it gives it this kind of like tunes energy that 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:08.200 like it isn't entirely absent in the music anyway, but 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:13.760 it's kind of more like an undercurrent. Anyway. I've done that, 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.639 so I wouldn't blame you for it. 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:19.919 I could see that working with a lot of your 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:23.799 like really like complex like uh Midi compositions and stuff like. 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.920 I definitely see like the arc work sounding like like 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:30.120 a really like fucked up like bullet Hell video game, 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:31.919 like when it's like spot up. 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.640 Gosh, it's funny you say bullet Hell video game. I 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:36.240 was listening to it on my I was on a 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:38.120 walk this. I'm so sorry. I'm not even letting our 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.000 guests fucking speak right now. I'm so rude. I'm I'm 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.840 on caffeine right now. I don't normally do this. I'm 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:45.080 normally on a heroin. 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:48.640 But. 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:54.920 So I was on a walk and I was listening, 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.640 and I was having this religious experience listening to the 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:01.520 latest album nine three six Suppules of three, which I love, 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.240 by the way, and I really was having like a religious, 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.720 spiritual experience, and I felt like I hate to be 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:10.960 this girl, but I felt like I was Baneta and 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:15.200 I could have started killing some angels, you know. Oh, 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:17.760 I don't know if you're a fan, but it was 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.640 very banned that like up up that alley. 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.719 So as Jennie was saying, like, I integrate the music 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:33.080 with a philosophy practice as well as an art practicist, 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:39.560 and those two other aspects are becoming increasingly important. The 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:45.000 music is derived like especially if I'm black metal, but 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:49.400 has a lot of other influences from experimental music and 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:54.520 especially classical music, like I love love classical music, and 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:59.799 a very interested and kind of like synthesizing that form 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.680 with the form of like kind of rock or like 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:09.040 just kind of counterculture, like a bit large and in 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:14.240 in a in a way that in a way that 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.200 like really kind of engages them, you know, and creates 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.599 the best of both worlds, and it's a kind of 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.880 ecstasy that like neither of them heels on its own. 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:25.800 And then I did two sculpture shows this past in 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:31.520 the past year and a half or so. And sculptures 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:37.520 are nice because that medium is so concrete, Like it's 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.920 nice to kind of have like objects, the relics in 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:47.960 the world because music is so immaterial, and the sculptures 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:53.120 have like they're intended to have religious significance as well 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:59.960 as being engaged with the discourse around in the contemporary 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:05.080 art world. So there's critique elements as well. Yeah, and 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.680 then there's the philosophy to mention, like from from the 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:12.360 Thesy has been around for a long time, like super 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:17.200 long time, and when the band first started, I was 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:24.360 sort of writing visionary texts sort of about you know, 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:30.200 about using music and counterculture as a medium for religious corscendants. 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.960 And that is on the one hand, very influenced by 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:38.960 continental philosophy, especially the news and creature. But I'm I'm 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:43.280 a practicing Christian, so it's it's because a Christian sort 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:49.280 of foundation, I guess. And yeah, so the idea is 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.880 kind of that it's a total work of art in 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:56.120 you know, something like the vision of like Richard Wagner. 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:01.880 There's like like between that and likeseph voice, like there's 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.120 sort of like a plexus version of that, and there's 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.480 sort of a more romantic version of that. I mean, 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.280 Genesis period is also maybe like a more temporary. 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:11.720 Rest and peace. 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:16.360 Yeah r I P R P Jen. We listened to 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.480 their memoir in the band. 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.960 Okay, Well yeah, sorry, no, I was just going to say, 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:26.520 I'm I'm glad that you were able to kind of like, uh, 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:31.600 explain that, because when I when I tell other people 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.480 like about your music, or people ask like what's that 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:39.200 tattoo on your leg or whatever, I find it difficult 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.960 to like some because like you are, you know, ostensibly 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.960 like a musician, a black mental musician, but there's so 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:52.160 much more to it than that, And for me personally, 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.400 as a fan of yours, I don't want to just 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:59.600 like simply say, you know, like, oh, she's a musician, 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:04.679 because there's like I I would usually describe it as 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.160 like there's kind of like three kind of things like 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.360 you just said, Like there's like the music which melds 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.760 with like kind of like Hegelian philosophy, which kind of 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:19.200 melds with Christianity, and that's kind of this trinitarian thing 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:23.520 that all kind of like works together. Would would that 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.040 be kind of an accurate way to describe what you do? 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's very love but yeah, and it 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:34.440 is trinitarian too, Like I'm very interested in the sort 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.400 of metaphysics of the Holy Trinity. Like there's this term 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.800 paraclesis that the allergencies, which is like the life of 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:44.120 the Trinity, the three persons in the Trinity, Like like 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.160 the literal is just like dancing around I guess what 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.760 were they alive to just kind of inter penetration, And 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.480 like the basic idea is to treat music, grama and 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:58.320 philosophy as the person of the Holy Trinity, to sort 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.080 of be in the image image of God, to create 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:07.680 the likeness of God. That's another mystical theme. Yeah and yeah, 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.440 but also I mean I think being all of that 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:14.760 is a pretty black metal thing. 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.559 To I totally agree. I totally agree. 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:21.760 I think it totally meshes with being black metal, and 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:23.760 the black metal kind of is the main thing is 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:28.200 what it is. But like there are like another thing 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.560 that is kind of black metal is to not really 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:33.000 fully be in a scene. You know that There's just 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.400 like so I see it as being very faithful to 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.440 what black metal is but there are a lot of 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:42.000 black metal bands that what it means is that they 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:43.439 play the style of black metal. 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.679 Yeah, and I totally agree, Like, I think it's truly 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.480 like punk rock to be cavalier in a way that 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:54.360 like no one else is. And I know that this 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:58.360 is something that you, being a black metal musician, has 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:02.679 probably like came with like a lot of I guess, 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:06.440 sort of like cultural hang ups within the scene because 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.720 it is very insular, and a lot of black metal 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:14.960 fans like for it to be insular, and you being 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:19.280 so bold about like trying to do something new, it's 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.640 kind of pissed some people off, for lack of a 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:24.920 better word, but you still keep doing it, and I 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.640 think there's a very I don't know, I just I 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:32.079 find there's just to be a real like earnestness to 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.160 what you do, and that is a lot more earnest 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.760 than just the same people who are just like doing 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.080 the same like Mayhem riffs and like corpse Pains and 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.720 all the same kind of like cliches that you expect 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:46.360 from the genre, you know what I mean. 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:51.040 Yeah, And I guess what I think maybe makes some 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:55.400 people uncomfortable is that one thing that's not very black 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:59.640 metal about me is that I am very like keen 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:04.439 to besides love, you know, and like like the importance 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.400 of love that's kind of the main thing, you know, 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:11.559 because I guess characteristically the key word for black metal 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:15.040 is hate. So so it's like, so there's that, so 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.440 like I get it. And then in that context, that's 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:23.120 that's kind of like a wild like a wild move 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.760 to make, whereas like in most of the world, provoking 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.280 the importance of love is like not so controversial. 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:31.439 Sure, I've kind of seen this term pop up around 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.680 like punk and metal scenes a lot where there's a 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.680 sort of like radical empathy towards like a lot of 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:43.800 kind of newer extreme music, whereas extreme music of yesteryear 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:50.840 was all about like death destruction and someone like you, yeah, right, 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.240 Like what you're trying to do is make this like 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:58.560 kind of transcendent art that yeah, like Carmen said, like yeah, 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:00.560 when I'm like listening to one of your records, like 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.439 when I'm like really feeling it, I feel like I 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.360 don't know, like i feel like I'm like ascending. Like 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.600 there's like a like a true like ascendance to it. 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:14.000 And I love like a lot of angry hateful music. 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:21.720 But I think there's something very like unique and inspiring 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:28.000 to like try to like deviate from that, using similar 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:33.240 formulas to what these other bands have laid out, but 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.720 using it for a different goal. 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.719 Yeah, and there are more and more bands who take 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.600 that approach, which is great. And I mean, in a way, 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:48.160 everyone knows that any kind of by music is secretly 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.439 about a certain kind of low you know, because it's 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.199 sort of about like there's a scene and there's something 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.480 that matters there in terms of the community and stuff 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:02.560 like that. But maybe there was a time when everything's 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:07.840 so contextual and sometimes and things get so cliched, and 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:11.480 so I feel like maybe in the eighties and nineties, 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.800 you know, being in a kind of like hardcore world 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.960 or something and talking about love would feel like it's coopted. 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.320 In advancer, it sounds, you know, like it's in booking 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:26.120 kind of hypocacy. Now it's like those gestures that used 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:30.560 to seem used to be kind of meaningfully ceta cultural, 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:32.840 you know, now those are kind of the ones that 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:34.040 seem more cliched. 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:34.640 Maybe. 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.520 Yeah, you bring up Christianity, and I feel like that's 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:42.280 probably a good springboard to like, I mean, there's a 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:46.480 lot there we had who was that Monica Helms her. 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:48.600 Yeah, Monica. I mean I've had a We've talked a 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:53.199 lot with Pascas about our relationships to religion and spirituality 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.760 and stuff like that. Monica Helms, Gabby Claiborne and stuff 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:56.120 like that. 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.439 Yeah, And it's always like I don't know, it's always 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.280 something in the trans scene like when I I remember, 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.680 like I've several times I've had to explain like, yeah, 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.280 I'm a Christian, but I'm not like in the way 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.240 that like I'm not a Christian in the way that 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.720 like I'm not one of the bad ones, so I'm 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.480 one of the cool ones. Yeah, But like I think 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:21.080 that there is like for me personally, Like I don't 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:22.800 know how much I've talked about this on the show, 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.520 but like for me personally, I have a lot, a lot, 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.400 a lot of religious trauma, as a lot of queer 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:34.520 people do. And it's it's very like understandable to me 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.640 why a lot of queer people would have such a 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:42.040 knee jerk reaction to Christianity and religion as a whole. 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.480 But for me personally, I had a lot of trauma 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.360 and I was just like raised Christian because I had 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.040 to be, and I saw a lot of really just 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:55.080 like scary, just like traumatizing shit as a child and 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.280 went through a lot, and then that drove me into 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:02.320 being like a very like strong lunch like Reddit atheist, 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:06.800 kind of like Bill Maher type was like very smarmy 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.440 and very like I was the kid that would go 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.920 around telling all the other kids the Santa Claus isn't 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.920 real essentially and just kind of wearing my like atheism 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.040 as like an edgy kind of badge of honor. So 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:21.920 except you would just be like sky Daddy, is it real? 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:22.400 Yeah? 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.800 Yeah, oh you believe in the flying would go. 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.280 Oh my god, that's the one from that's a throwback. 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:28.240 Yeah yeah. 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:32.760 So uh So to bring it like full circle and 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.520 like as an adult, like really just kind of wondering 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:40.760 at my place in the universe and also reconciling with, 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:42.600 you know, the fact that I am queer and I 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:43.800 am trans. 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.600 And God made me that way. 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.400 And it's a nice like kind of reverse UNO card 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.040 to all the people that say like, oh, well God 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.600 doesn't make mistakes, you were born this way and blah 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:57.920 blah blah. It's like, well, no, God made me as 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:02.520 a trans woman, and that's actually okay, And it brings 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.920 me a lot of power and comfort knowing that I'm 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.880 taking something that brought me so much pain and trauma 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.960 and suffering and using it as a source for like 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:18.560 comfort and a source for like something that heals me 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.480 and like nourishes me instead of something that I always 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.320 have to be like afraid of. If I may ask, 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:26.080 were you always a Christian? 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:31.480 I mean, I mean I believe this pretty much everything 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.880 you said. And I think that part of why it's 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:41.720 been easier for me personally to invout Christianity is that 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.960 I probably had less Christianity in my life growing up 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:47.120 than you, you know, like. 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:53.720 Did you grow up in New York City or you did? Okay, Okay, 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:54.960 I'm sorry. 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.800 And so I had some Christian influence in my family, 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.120 but I was primarily in like a like a secular 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:06.159 or for it, you know, and and like, but I 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:12.239 had some experiences that I don't know, I had a 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.439 mix of positive and negative experience as a Christian any way, 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:19.360 I would say, but it was never like like, oh, 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.480 the whole world around like the experience that like, you know, 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.919 you hear like everybody complains about having had, you know, like, oh, 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.840 the whole world around me is Christian and like I'm 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:30.639 being abused by it and all that sort of stuff 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:36.080 like that, and and like I think that it's fairly 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.320 easy to just say, but harder to feel that like 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:44.520 maybe all of that was a hypocritical use or an 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.600 abuse of the Christian message, you know, and that actually, 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:53.920 you know, civil rights for clear people and women and 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:59.960 so forth, is you know that that historical phenomenon, which 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:04.239 is so sort of new and unique, is a lot 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.080 of ways the flowering of Christendom, you know, like like 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.840 it's if you sort of look look at the history, uh, 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:15.240 you know, Western secularism, and a lot of the positive 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:18.639 dimensions of it kind of came, you know, like it 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.000 kind of already is Christianity, you know, like like if 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:26.440 you really look at the big picture, it's like and 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:28.560 this is something that like says all the time too, 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:33.520 you know, like like that and and so yeah, but 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.879 like I guess what I kind of imagine, like the 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.639 world is just kind of changing a lot, and the 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.959 idea generally that religion is just something from the past. 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.480 It's like stupid, you know, and that like only dumb 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.520 people could possibly believe in God. Or that that it 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:56.119 is only that like that view is dissolving anyway, you know. 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.840 And so so religion is kind of coming back into culture. 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.080 But a lot of people are converting to Christianity and 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:09.000 then immediately doing it adopting these reactionary values from a 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.399 sort of like old version of Christianity that we should 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.080 be transcending. And so in a way that makes it 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.639 feel to me more important than ever to sort of 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:23.199 foreground Christianity by its name and propose a version of 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:27.840 it that is an improvement on the secularism rather than 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.919 like a regression to like the school version. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.040 Of a rejection of it entirely. 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:33.520 Yeah. 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.240 Yeah, that is something we've talked about on the show 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:37.520 a lot. 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.840 Is that there does seem to be especially with like 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.720 gen Z and like I don't know. 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.959 As a return to religion for sure, with people who 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:50.520 aren't like traditionally like conservative and stuff like that. Necessarily, 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.800 I think people are looking for community, looking for something 0:19:54.840 --> 0:20:05.760 to connect with for different reasons. I wanted to say 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:07.680 something that you talked about like a long time ago, 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:13.160 related to the Trinity and related to art and music 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:17.320 and drama and that being a reflection of God, and 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.520 I think it's really funny that. Well, I don't know, 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.639 it's just like an interesting thought. I think that like 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.320 art is definitely a reflection of God and of the 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.639 people that make it. But we're seeing now like people 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:34.680 rejecting art and embracing fake art that is made by 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:36.359 like AI. I don't want to I don't want to 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:38.960 have an AI conversation, but I'm kind. 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:41.199 Of curious Halo's thoughts on AI. 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:44.760 Well, okay, okay, they say that the death of art 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.040 is like the death of God and vice versa. 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:50.719 You know, yeah, I get what you mean. 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.560 I remember thinking about this probably when I was like 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.919 listening to the artwork and all the like, uh, I 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.439 don't know how so immediate, Like there's like Kelvall, like 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.480 that song sounds like it's like a like a colosseum, 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.200 and it sounds like it's very like Gladiator. There's a 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.000 lot of like triumphant kind of sounds in that. And 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.240 I've also heard John Moss say this about his music before, 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:16.399 where there's something kind of like medieval about it and 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:20.320 it's kind of like this marriage between the past and 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.800 the future where it's like the far far past merging 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.080 with the far far future and so that's why I 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:30.879 am a little curious, like what your thoughts are on 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:34.760 I guess ai and I guess like the future of 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.280 the death of art. Yeah, yeah, just stuff like that. 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:41.199 Do you have any kind of opinions on that? Have 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:42.679 you made any videos about that or anything? 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:44.720 Yeah? 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:48.439 I had lots of them for sure. Let's see. I 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:52.960 was also interested in the previous point. Let me see, 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:58.560 I think I connected somehow. So yeah, the death of 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:04.000 our I oh yeah, Younger people getting into religion or 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:08.960 a sense of community. I think that people are getting 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:16.399 into religion also because they desired discipline, and that there's 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:20.080 been especially with you know, the kind of onslaught of 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:26.320 casino reward, attention and economy, social media stuff that like 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.840 everyone is really battered by not just like stimulation, but 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:34.440 just sort of like having their attention corn apartment and 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:41.640 secular liberal values being exploited, like being hijacked to sort 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:43.919 of justify all that, you know, just like you know, 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:47.119 like be as free as you want, you know, like 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:52.240 any discipline is you know, oppressive or whatever like that. 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:54.800 There's this kind of idea of that, So there's this 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:58.480 kind of false sense of like more moral justification and 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:02.399 kind of actually just being taken advantage of by like 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:05.880 advertising or whatever. And so I think that that's part 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:10.760 of what the impulse is and then getting into creating 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:14.240 art and God being art and the depth of all that. 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:16.920 But like that's again part of why I'm so just 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:22.560 in the metal classical music nexus. Like in some ways 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:27.280 I think that with the technological changes that are underway, 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:32.800 you know, there's an opportunity to be more creative and 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:36.879 to be better artists than ever and to have you know, 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:42.920 more people devoting their lives to creative expression and sharing 0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:48.240 and healing than ever, and we should really be leaning 0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:51.800 into that. But there's such a danger of that not 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:55.120 being what happens, you know, and and almost kind of 0:23:55.840 --> 0:24:01.400 people just losing their capacity to like love or care 0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:05.639 or pay attention, you know, at all, and sort of 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:10.159 just become like, yeah, just become like Reese in the 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:13.439 wheels of like some like machine you know that doesn't 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:15.959 even know we're there or whatever. And I think more 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:19.280 and more that's like maybe maybe that's just a task, 0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:23.040 you know, a task for the arts generally, in for 0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:25.240 music and everything is to kind of just like keep 0:24:25.280 --> 0:24:30.480 that ember glowing of you know, the idea the identity 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:33.199 of like God and art, and so as far as 0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:36.160 a I specifically goes like I can see an optimistic 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:40.919 possible future or something, and I think that, you know, 0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:46.160