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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast am on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Punda Powell. You've described in your book about what was

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Speaker 2: going on in the US, the saucer clubs and organizations

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Speaker 2: being created, and back and forth battles in popular media,

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Speaker 2: radio and magazines and things of that sort. What was

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Speaker 2: going on in the UK at the same time. Was

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Speaker 2: the same kind of UFO fervor underway there? Or was

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Speaker 2: it more reserved and restrained?

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Speaker 3: I would say there was less of it. Certainly there

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Speaker 3: were clubs over here and that they were in contact

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Speaker 3: with the Keyhoe engage along with Nightcap. But certainly I

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Speaker 3: think it's still true there is generally less interest in

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Speaker 3: terms of organized interest. As a shower subject, it's still

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Speaker 3: great interest.

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Speaker 4: I know.

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Speaker 3: It's clubs was a big thing growing America. I think you.

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Speaker 2: Oversee you had a George King who was sort of

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Speaker 2: like the Adamski of the UK, right, he was a

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Speaker 2: contact ee.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he formed the serious so fanity, which is still

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Speaker 3: going I believe, but he was very much like the Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the Flying George's, as referred to them there as George Damski,

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Speaker 3: Van's Hustle and King, and they pretty much all said

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Speaker 3: the same thing, So there was a commer scene among them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, flying George's I like that. So you know, it's

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Speaker 2: sort of the same way today. I get, you know,

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Speaker 2: calls and emails from UK from listeners and to this

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Speaker 2: program and to podcasts, and we'll say, gosh, why doesn't

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Speaker 2: our news media cover it? We barely get any UFO oracles.

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Speaker 2: I do see some in the Daily Mail on occasion,

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Speaker 2: but I think BBC and maybe the bigger newspapers don't

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Speaker 2: dive into it.

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Speaker 3: That's right, Yes it is. It's still very much abloids subjects,

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Speaker 3: and sometimes it deserves to be, I think. But we've

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Speaker 3: had more serious average over here since twenty seventeen when

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Speaker 3: the Department of Defend soon to release those videos. It's

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Speaker 3: still got some way to go with it. Encouraging that

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Speaker 3: we're getting some coverage now in the serious test. Whether

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Speaker 3: that will continue remains to be seen.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about Nightcap, how it was put together, the

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Speaker 2: movement to create it, and how influential it was. I

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Speaker 2: don't think we have an equivalent to Nicap today. We

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Speaker 2: have Moufon, which is large, but not nearly as influential

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Speaker 2: as what Nightcap was based on. Who made up its

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Speaker 2: board and its members.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's true. A Nightcap came to life in late

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Speaker 3: nineteen fifty six, into far as it was undered that year.

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Speaker 3: It's background. I detail got a lot of his tail

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Speaker 3: in the book about the interesting, strange characters who were

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Speaker 3: involved in this formation, And in fact it was really

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Speaker 3: kick started by Washington widow called Clara John and Aid

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Speaker 3: and better buy Rose Tackett, who became secretary at Nightcap,

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Speaker 3: And both of these whomen were close to Thomas Townsend Brown,

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Speaker 3: a man of mystery, a scientist, no, I'm quite sure

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Speaker 3: what he worked on were and so forth. He has

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Speaker 3: a very peculiar association with some rather disreputable characters. And

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Speaker 3: the conclusion reached by the tunny Nightcap was founded and

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Speaker 3: in the following weeks was that he was in it

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Speaker 3: for the manor. He admitted he wanted to use NAP

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Speaker 3: for funding his own projects, but he very for the

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Speaker 3: fill out of favor and that's that down led to

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Speaker 3: don Keyhoe taking it over. It's a sort of desperate movie.

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Speaker 3: They needed someone who was prepared to do that, and

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Speaker 3: so he stepped into the beach.

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Speaker 2: I remember reading years ago about Nightcap members. I think

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Speaker 2: Roscoe Hillencoder was was was involved with NICAP at one point.

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Speaker 2: He was the director of the CIA at the time,

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Speaker 2: which is astounding to think that the CIA director would

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Speaker 2: be a member of this UFO organization.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's a very interesting aspect. Hill and Cotter and

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Speaker 3: Keyhole were rinked because they were both at Annapolis as

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Speaker 3: good as student as Mitchell. And when they left here

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Speaker 3: and Cotton went on to Miniature Service and was sort

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Speaker 3: of shoved into the position of head of the CIA.

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Speaker 3: It hadn't been the CIA to start with, but he

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Speaker 3: was there when it was when it became the CIA.

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Speaker 3: I do quite deep into his time there, but didn't

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Speaker 3: put all of the research in the book because it

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Speaker 3: would make a book in itself. But basically he had

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Speaker 3: a very difficult time at the CIA, and his reputation

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Speaker 3: wasn't very good. But when he joined Nightcap, evidently he

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Speaker 3: had reconnected with you and was of the opinion that

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Speaker 3: there was something going on that needed to be looked at,

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Speaker 3: that the Air Force Exnation was just not good enough,

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Speaker 3: and he was a very important figure to have on board.

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Speaker 3: He came on board the M seven one of their appointments,

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Speaker 3: key Homemade and he took over and then he departed

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Speaker 3: a few years later under what he's a very strange

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Speaker 3: circumstances that were not to be down choosing, but certainly

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Speaker 3: a key figure. And he gave enormous kudos to NAP because.

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Speaker 2: I would think, you know, on our wildcard line. Tom

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Speaker 2: in Tennessee has a question about Nightcap Nightcap. Hi Tom,

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Speaker 2: good morning.

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Speaker 5: Good more in George, and it's a pleasure to speak

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Speaker 5: to you. I consider you probably the former journalists in

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Speaker 5: the UFO field today.

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Speaker 2: Well thanks, there's a lot of good.

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Speaker 5: Probably doing a lot more than Major Keyo did. There

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Speaker 5: has been rumors and I talked to one of her

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Speaker 5: I think producers, Jeane Steinberg. I believe he has a podcast,

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Speaker 5: but he seemed to know Keyho and he said that

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Speaker 5: towards the end of the Nightcap era that Keo would

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Speaker 5: leave like FX laying around his house and that he

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Speaker 5: just lost interest in NCAP for some reason. Has this

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Speaker 5: ever been confirmed?

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Speaker 2: Well, Linda's the person to ask. I think he was

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Speaker 2: booted out of it, wasn't he, Linda.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he was. He certainly never lost interest in mycap

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Speaker 3: that he became detached from it. The officers in Washington,

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Speaker 3: d C. And His home was in the Ray the Gene,

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Speaker 3: which is about one hundred miles away. His timely reason

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Speaker 3: for keeping away was because of his wife's health. She

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Speaker 3: had heart problems and other issues, for which Keho felt

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Speaker 3: rather guilty because he felt the treasure of Nightcap, of

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Speaker 3: the financial crisis is inflicted upon his family was his

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Speaker 3: own fault, and it was really But also he would

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Speaker 3: be a way of doing erected himself forth so if

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Speaker 3: he wasn't really in the office. But he never was interesting,

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Speaker 3: not for a moment.

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Speaker 2: Tom, Thank you for the call.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: One of the things I had read before, Linda was

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Speaker 2: that by the end the CIA infiltrated Nightcap, that it

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Speaker 2: basically took over the organization. I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: found anything to support that or not.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a difficult one because certainly there were CIA

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Speaker 3: people involved or suspected to be involved, right from the

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Speaker 3: Verish start, even from terms and Browns parts and Keiho

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Speaker 3: left the person I were former CIA people and the

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Speaker 3: CIA itself. I saw a CIA memo which mentioned that

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Speaker 3: there were there were quite a number of CIA people

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Speaker 3: in the organization or VAA people, and the memo took

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Speaker 3: the view that well, that's more or less just a coincidents,

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Speaker 3: and anyone can join that tap anyway if you've got

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Speaker 3: the c So that was where I've played down. So

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Speaker 3: I don't know what prompted that memo or or or

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Speaker 3: I don't know it if I had a ceature on it.

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Speaker 3: But yes, that it is a bit stranger with the

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Speaker 3: cryeah kind.

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Speaker 2: Of heavy handed, I'd say, uh. On the wild Card Line,

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Speaker 2: Mike in Freeport, New York High Mike, good morning, you're

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Speaker 2: on with Linda Powell.

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Speaker 6: Yes, I have a nineteen seventy six UFO Annual, and

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Speaker 6: in there there's an article by John A. Keel and

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Speaker 6: he says that this of the men in Back, he says,

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Speaker 6: in my own investigations into hundreds of men in black

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Speaker 6: cases and Wargate style break ins, I uneasily recognize a

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Speaker 6: common factor in the mall or men and back are

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Speaker 6: mainly interested in retrieving evidence which might point to terrestrial

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Speaker 6: origin of UFOs. Like most of the professional scientists and

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Speaker 6: journalists who have undertaken a serious stead of UFOs, doctor

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Speaker 6: j Allen Heinik, Jack Malay and their colleagues have found

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Speaker 6: the popular extraterrestrial hypothesis untenable.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's probably true that a lot of

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Speaker 2: them have a more ambitious kind of explanation. Jacques la

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Speaker 2: very interested in UFOs in general, but he thinks maybe

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Speaker 2: extraterrestrialists too simple an explanation. If, as he has said

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Speaker 2: to me on a couple of occasions, if you can

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Speaker 2: bend space time and I'm sorry to repeat this quote,

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Speaker 2: but if you can bend space time in ways that

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Speaker 2: UFOs have demonstrated, you could be extraterrestrial, interdimensional time travelers,

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Speaker 2: all the above, Linda, I think Mike is quoting John Keel,

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Speaker 2: who of course soured on the et idea and thought

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Speaker 2: it was something very strange but not necessarily from other planets, right.

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Speaker 3: I focused on what you had to say during the

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Speaker 3: life of Nightcaps, so I can't comment on that. I

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Speaker 3: certainly had a low opinion of Luba canvary investigations that

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Speaker 3: at that time during his during the Nightcap years, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you was something being hidden.

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Speaker 2: You write about Keel and his inter relationship with Keho

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Speaker 2: and his involvement with Nightcap in those era. Can you

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Speaker 2: summarize it?

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Speaker 3: Yes, he had an interview of note, he had an

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Speaker 3: interview with May. I think it's a major Master that Jack's.

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Speaker 4: Who was.

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Speaker 3: The information man at Good Book at the time, and

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Speaker 3: Jack's appeared to know absolutely nothing about the subject. Keel

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Speaker 3: was very supportive of Nightcap and basically made a fool

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Speaker 3: of Jackson. They they ultimately chief us on they're just

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Speaker 3: conclusional war that there was definitely something being a hidden.

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Speaker 3: As a result of this meeting he had with the

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Speaker 3: Master and Jacks.

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Speaker 2: East of the Rockies Captain Bob and Long Island Hi,

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Speaker 2: Captain Bob, Welcome to Coast to coast. What's on your mind?

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Speaker 4: Good money, Gord, good money? Render a doubt?

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Speaker 2: Yes, oh, thank you, I.

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Speaker 4: Without a doubt. Ustin Wells was ordered to do that

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Speaker 4: broadcast to see the reactions of human beings, and unfortunately

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Speaker 4: we failed the test. The panic that he created, which

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Speaker 4: is worn't the time to reveal ourselves or themselves will

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Speaker 4: be a little bit more time, and then the world

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Speaker 4: would say that they are they. We are peaceful people.

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Speaker 4: And at the present time the good and the evil

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Speaker 4: are having such a battle, but we are running out

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Speaker 4: of time for the good. Extraterrestrials or entities or beings

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Speaker 4: from other places in the universe will reveal themselves right

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Speaker 4: now is not the time. Thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: All right, Captain Bob, thanks you know you you had

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Speaker 2: an interesting piece of information in your Booklend about that

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Speaker 2: Orson Welles broadcast. I don't recall the source of this study,

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Speaker 2: but you mentioned that there had been some sort of

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Speaker 2: a study done about the impact of that broadcast, and

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Speaker 2: it found that there was a million Americans, a million

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Speaker 2: who actually were panic that misinterpreted that thing as being real.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that was the Hadley Control study, which emphasized how value,

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Speaker 3: which has then the main medium, could affect the general public,

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Speaker 3: and there were some weals broadcast created such an opset

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Speaker 3: that it was worthy of an independent study. The problem.

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Speaker 3: Part of the problem was that World made a perfectly

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Speaker 3: clear explanation at the start of the broadcast that this

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Speaker 3: is a dramatization of H. G. Wells's fictional story. But

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Speaker 3: it was very brief, and many people missed it, and

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Speaker 3: so consequently, because it was so convincing, they free to pants.

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Speaker 3: So Cantrill wrote, I did the study of this, and

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Speaker 3: it basically concluded that radio was so influential that it

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Speaker 3: could create this effects, and that then set the ground

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Speaker 3: work for people to work be afrade of something like

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Speaker 3: that happening game.

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Speaker 2: We didn't have time tonight to get into the Condon Report,

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Speaker 2: which is you indicated in your book. You know it

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Speaker 2: was was rigged. It was, as Keyho found out it was.

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Speaker 2: There were memos that were written before the study was

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Speaker 2: even conducted that they were going to pretend to be

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Speaker 2: fair and balanced, but actually they knew what their conclusion

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Speaker 2: was going to be. And that ended Project Blue Book

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Speaker 2: and the Air Force supposedly got out of it forever.

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Speaker 2: But you write something at the end that I thought

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Speaker 2: was really interesting is that Keyho was very meticulous about

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Speaker 2: protecting certain files. He had a security system or elaborate

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Speaker 2: system at his home where he kept his most sensitive materials,

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Speaker 2: and after he died, somebody got in there and took

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Speaker 2: it away. Can you tell us about that?

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Speaker 3: Yes, he returned files which were not married, which was

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Speaker 3: not known to Nightcap. Richard Hall, who's assistant director for

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Speaker 3: a time. Nightcap thought that these were primary to be

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Speaker 3: used in Keyho's own writing for art couldn't perform. But

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Speaker 3: that doesn't seem to be the case. Key Hoose letters

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Speaker 3: from the nineteen eighties indicate that he held the material

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Speaker 3: which had been given to him by high level sources,

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Speaker 3: which supported strongly his view that there was an antiplanetary

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Speaker 3: answer and that something rather terrible was being He was

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Speaker 3: going to write a book on it at that time,

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Speaker 3: but anyway, that never happened, and that room, I infer,

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Speaker 3: would have also contained the moments of his secret contacts.

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Speaker 3: He had many in the.

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Speaker 2: Military and sare so it's just a rumor that somebody

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Speaker 2: came in secret service agents and took away boxes of material.

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Speaker 3: And that's right. Yeah, after he died. I inferred that

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Speaker 3: it was very soon after we died his home was

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Speaker 3: raised and that strong room was broken into and all

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Speaker 3: the files were removed by whom there were thought to

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Speaker 3: secrets devastagents. Is not there, and what happened to the

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Speaker 3: file is not more contained, isn't now?

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