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Speaker 1: I remembert Evans is Behind the Bastards TV podcast Bad

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Speaker 1: People talks about what are you talking about? It's part

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Speaker 1: two of our Elizabeth Holmes podcast. It's actually a TV podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's a TV podcast. The video of this would include

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Speaker 1: even more salad eating than the audio does. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's actually a bonus feature. That is a bonus feature.

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Speaker 1: It's actually something you can just turn on, like audio commentary.

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Speaker 1: You can just watch me eating a salad. It's you

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Speaker 1: watching a salad, eating a salad, and me commenting on

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Speaker 1: the nature of salads over the years. Behind the Salads

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Speaker 1: sounds really big, and I'm not going to finish it.

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Speaker 1: It's too large, it's substantial, it's it's an enormous salad.

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Speaker 1: Closing it part two now in our in our last episode,

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Speaker 1: we've talked about Elizabeth Holmes's rise to prominence and the

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Speaker 1: kind of wealth that people make when they haven't actually

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Speaker 1: made anything, but like because of tech industry voodoo. Everyone

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Speaker 1: says the comedies with billions of dollars, she got that

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Speaker 1: kind of rich. I also, during the break, came up

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Speaker 1: with a nickname for Sonny Balwani, like Welajo for Elizabeth Holmes. Sunball.

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Speaker 1: I I list when I was listening to the ABC

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Speaker 1: News UM podcast about Elizabeth Holmes a few months ago.

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Speaker 1: My dog's name is Sonny Um, and every time they

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Speaker 1: would mention Sonny bow Wannie, my dog would be like

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Speaker 1: Sonny was a known scammer, and then you could just

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Speaker 1: stare at my dog and know that he's also a right.

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Speaker 1: One thing I'm excited for is when we have a

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Speaker 1: mass shooter named Alexa, because the news that it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be quite a trip. That's going to be the time

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Speaker 1: that it's like, you know what, we are never again

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Speaker 1: reporting on a mass shooter's name. Too messy. That'll finally

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Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, yeah, Now, if you watched any documentaries

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Speaker 1: about Holmes, you read much of the more sensational coverage

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Speaker 1: about her life, you were left with a question, how

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Speaker 1: did she trick so many prominent intelligent men into believing

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Speaker 1: her smoke and mirrors were real functioning technology. Jim Mattis

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Speaker 1: is probably the USA's most respected living soldier. He's a

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Speaker 1: general so widely admired that the Democrats in Congress didn't

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Speaker 1: bother fighting when Trump appointed him Secretary of Defense. His

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Speaker 1: nickname is the Warrior Monk. Here's what he told Fortune

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Speaker 1: about why he trusted Elizabeth Holmes. She really does want

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Speaker 1: to make a dent in the universe, one that is positive.

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Speaker 1: The strength of the leader's vision in the military is

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Speaker 1: seen as the critical element in that unit's performance. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be around something again that had that sort

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Speaker 1: of leadership. I just there's a lot of I just

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Speaker 1: have strong opinions about how not not about jam specifically,

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Speaker 1: but about like the like how like all the people

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Speaker 1: specifically men who fell for all of this have never

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Speaker 1: been really asked to like, you know, back it up

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Speaker 1: with I want to get I want to get through

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Speaker 1: all of the different things, and then we'll then we'll

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Speaker 1: discuss okay uh. In two thousand fourteen, Fortune talk to

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Speaker 1: board member Henry Kissinger as well. The year old former

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Speaker 1: Secretary of State and forever war criminal. First said she

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Speaker 1: looks like nineteen and then quote asked to assess her

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Speaker 1: as a leader because he's seen a few, He responds,

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Speaker 1: I can't compare her to anyone else because I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen any one with her very special attributes. She has

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Speaker 1: iron will, strong determination, but nothing dramatic. There's no performance

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Speaker 1: associated with her. I have seen no sign that financial

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Speaker 1: gain is of any interest to her. She's like a monk.

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Speaker 1: She isn't flashy. She wouldn't walk into a room and

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Speaker 1: take it over, but she would once the subject gets

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Speaker 1: to her field. Now, if you read up on Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Holme will hear a number of theories as to why

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Speaker 1: this is all the case. I've run across a lot

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Speaker 1: of speculation on Twitter, mostly by women, that it's just

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Speaker 1: because she's hot and these old distinguished men were just

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Speaker 1: torny for her and let her themselves get fooled. Definitely

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Speaker 1: part of the definitely part of the reason. That's certainly

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Speaker 1: in lined with some of the claims Dr Fuse has made.

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Speaker 1: Remember back in two thousand and five when she convinced

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Speaker 1: that VC Donald Lucas to invest a bunch of money

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Speaker 1: in Tharanos Well. Dr Fuse claims quote Elizabeth called Lucas

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Speaker 1: from China and he would hear her speaking Mandarin in

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Speaker 1: the background. When he saw how attractive she was, he

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Speaker 1: got Oracle chairman Larry Ellison involved and he invested. Now, again,

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Speaker 1: Fuse is biased and a doctor. He's he's a biased physician, psychiatrist.

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Speaker 1: But we do have Lucas's own recollections about why he

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Speaker 1: got involved with Theoranos two That's nine interview with a

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Speaker 1: Berkeley PhD student. He said, this my assistant and I

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Speaker 1: had a call from Beijing. Of course I'll take the call.

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Speaker 1: He said, You've got to meet this young lady, Elizabeth Holmes.

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Speaker 1: I said, John, what, You've got to meet her? She's fabulous. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm figuring twenty minutes, right, This young lady comes in.

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Speaker 1: I think she probably was one years old at the time,

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Speaker 1: and it left Stanford, didn't graduate, and she had a

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Speaker 1: company called Saranos, and I thought this was going to

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Speaker 1: be a short conversation. Well now I'm chairman of the

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Speaker 1: board and I spent a lot of time with her

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Speaker 1: in the company, and she's doing super He didn't went

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Speaker 1: on to tell this grad student that she was also

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Speaker 1: good looking, and then laughed of I mean, of course

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Speaker 1: there's like with with it's which is crazy because it's

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Speaker 1: like everyone now is like in retrospect, being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Holmes is like a mad genius for pitching her

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Speaker 1: voice lower and dressing like more masculine, And we're not

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Speaker 1: going to talk about her voice that much in this

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's I don't think it's relevant super Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but but it's just like, no, it's like there's it

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Speaker 1: is so transparent when you look at it for two seconds,

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Speaker 1: it's like there, it's there's some bias involved. Yeah, one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons I don't want to get her on

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Speaker 1: the voice. She's definitely she objectively altered her voice for

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Speaker 1: it to sound deeper. That's been very well documented. For sure.

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Speaker 1: I've known a number of women who like had to

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Speaker 1: manage men, particularly in male dominated fields like agriculture, and

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Speaker 1: they do the same thing because, like it's just what

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Speaker 1: you do. If you're trying to get a bunch of

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Speaker 1: mentalism to you, you have to, Yeah, you have to

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Speaker 1: like affect a more masculine tone because men have worms

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Speaker 1: in their brains. Because men have worms in their brains. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not sure why or how much importance I

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Speaker 1: give to the fact that she was hot, But I

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Speaker 1: will admit that watching early videos of her before she

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Speaker 1: was as media savvy as she got makes it seem

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Speaker 1: like hotness must have been a bigger factor than her

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Speaker 1: rock charisma and brilliance. Here is an exerpt from her

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Speaker 1: very first TED talk in two thousand fourteen. So it's

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Speaker 1: just like one of the very first This is a

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Speaker 1: classic Yeah, and it's the individual is the answer to

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Speaker 1: the challenges of healthcare. But we can't engage the individual

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Speaker 1: in changing outcomes unless individuals have access to the information

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Speaker 1: they need to do. So, Okay, that's that's probably about enough.

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Speaker 1: That's not a great speech. That was a lot of

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Speaker 1: words delivered in random ortar that was It's bad. It's

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Speaker 1: not charismatic, it's not like there's nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: the deepness of her voice. It's just like not good presentation.

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Speaker 1: And and it's totally unclear what the company is based

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Speaker 1: on that conversation exactly. Um. Now, with her body language

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Speaker 1: and her outfit, which of course the people listening won't

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Speaker 1: have seen, she's very clearly imitating Steve Jobs. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's egregious. Yeah, it's egregious. And everybody, everybody, even

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Speaker 1: in the praiseful Fortune article, they noticed that like she

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Speaker 1: dressed identical every day, uh, and specifically in order to

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Speaker 1: like look like Steve Jobs, that he was a hero

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Speaker 1: for her or she she hung a portrait of his

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Speaker 1: Apple Internet bio like that she printed out on the

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Speaker 1: day he stepped down a CEO because of cancer hung

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Speaker 1: it up in her office. Yeah, it didn't seem to

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Speaker 1: be much of a secret. No. No, she kept all

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Speaker 1: the thermostats a Thereanos offices extra low so she could

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Speaker 1: always wear her trademark turtleneck. Um, that's also just another

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Speaker 1: another vase of frank thing. Yeah, it's always fifty five

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Speaker 1: degrees in those offices. Well, that I agree with, because

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Speaker 1: I prefer it to be cold. You're wrong, No, I'd

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Speaker 1: like to be cold. I am not soon, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I forgot. I was sad about it. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: just don't like it warm. Um. Now, Elizabeth Holmes did

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Speaker 1: not just affect jobs, is choice and outfit. She went

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Speaker 1: well out of her way to present the perfect image

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Speaker 1: of the aloof eccentric genius founder. Here's fortune again. Homes

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Speaker 1: grips a plastic cup of an appetizing green juice, her

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Speaker 1: first of the day. It is made from spinach, partly parsley, wheat, grass,

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Speaker 1: and celery. Later she'll switch to cucumber vegan. She long

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Speaker 1: ago dropped coffee in favor of these juices, which she

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Speaker 1: finds are better able to propel her through her sixteen

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Speaker 1: hour days in seven day weeks. She admits laughing nervously

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Speaker 1: at the eccentricity of it, but after a meal, she

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Speaker 1: sometimes examines a drop of her own or others is

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Speaker 1: blood on a slide and says she can observe the

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Speaker 1: difference between when someone has eaten something healthy like broccoli

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Speaker 1: and when he splurged on a cheeseburger. When we dine

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Speaker 1: one night in an Italian plate placed downtown with fourteen

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Speaker 1: dollar pastas, the manager knows what she'll have, a spartan dressing,

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Speaker 1: less mixed salad in an oil free spaghetti with tomatoes

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Speaker 1: prepared from a whole wheat noodle she has provided the

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Speaker 1: restaurant in advance since it doesn't stock them. No wine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what a what a weird self mythologizing pack of lies.

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Speaker 1: But so many Silicon Valley people do ship like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so here's here's the question. I wanted a literal vampire.

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Speaker 1: Peter Hill is a literal vampire. This is the question

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Speaker 1: I want to ask. So we've got the one speculation

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Speaker 1: that like all these old guys bought into her because

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Speaker 1: she was hot, And we've got the other speculation, which

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Speaker 1: I think is at least as big a part of it,

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Speaker 1: and maybe a bigger part of it is that she

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Speaker 1: made herself look like a crazy Silicon Valley genius, and

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Speaker 1: these guys were just they were looking for that. And

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Speaker 1: then gender was a component in that. Gender was a

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Speaker 1: component in that, but the thing, but not the entire

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Speaker 1: like the fact that these guys thought she was a

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Speaker 1: track was part of their magnetism to her, But I

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Speaker 1: think it was more the part that, like they were,

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Speaker 1: they all wanted to get a shipload of money by

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Speaker 1: being involved with the next Steve Jobs. And what do

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Speaker 1: you look for in the next Steve Jobs? A crazy

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Speaker 1: asshole who does weird things right because which she was

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Speaker 1: imitating to a t Yeah, um, yeah, no, I mean

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Speaker 1: I agree. I think it's like reductive to say that

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Speaker 1: it's like completely because of her looks. But I also

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Speaker 1: think that like, especially like old dudes are always like

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that they thought they were supporting most like

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Speaker 1: people like early supporters of like Cheryl Sandberg when she

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Speaker 1: was starting to do funked up stuff, They're like, they're like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm supporting a woman, so I'm not a bad person.

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Speaker 1: Where they just started like searching for the easiest, least

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Speaker 1: challenging version of what they're what they think is feminism

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Speaker 1: and then being like, oh, so, I'm it's like the

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Speaker 1: equivalent of like saying, you have a black friend and

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Speaker 1: I gave money to a woman. I don't this is

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Speaker 1: this gets on like a totally different issue I have.

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Speaker 1: But it's like umbor when Josh Weeden it came out

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Speaker 1: that he like cheated on his wife a bunch and

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Speaker 1: everybody was saying he was a ake feminist or like, no,

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Speaker 1: he can be a feminist and cheat on his wife

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're a good husband. You can be a

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Speaker 1: shitty person and a feminist. It's not a high bar.

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Speaker 1: It's the bottom. It's like you're not a good person

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Speaker 1: for saying black people and white people should have equal rights.

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Speaker 1: That's the bottom. They're serial killers who aren't racist there yeah,

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Speaker 1: like there, I don't know. I mean, and I think

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Speaker 1: that a lot of these like investors, that's just like

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Speaker 1: it's at least in part them failing to meet that

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Speaker 1: bottom because they're just like, well, I threw money at

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Speaker 1: a woman's company and a woman's company. But she she

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Speaker 1: is imitating one of the I mean, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: A lot of it is a testament to her commitment.

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Speaker 1: She really knows how to commit she is. I mean

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Speaker 1: I wish I could. I would be a lot more

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Speaker 1: successful if I could commit to the bit like that.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I think if I had only used my my

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Speaker 1: power as a as a tall, confident white man to

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Speaker 1: start a Silicon Valley company making I don't know an

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Speaker 1: app that does your laundry. I could have a billion

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Speaker 1: dollars right now laundry at time. But that exists. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: they've tried it a couple of times. Probably like half

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Speaker 1: of Silicon Valley right now is just doing things that

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Speaker 1: nineteen year old millionaire's moms used to do for them.

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Speaker 1: Cool cool, cool, totally sustainable, great part of the world,

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Speaker 1: terrifying place. Yeah, now, uh it didn't hurt um Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Holmes's ability to con all these uh statesmen who people

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Speaker 1: think are brilliant. I don't think being a Secretary of

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Speaker 1: State makes you brilliant. I don't think Hilly christ. I

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Speaker 1: don't think Kissinger is all that smart. Whatever I think

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Speaker 1: he's I think he's smart in certain ways. That's a

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Speaker 1: whole other, that's a whole were Let's not talk about Kissinger.

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Speaker 1: When we talk about Kissinger, it's got to be like

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Speaker 1: a four hour talk about I don't even know where

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Speaker 1: to step, but I think it helped a lot that

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Speaker 1: Like everyone always talked about when before Tharonos, like the

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Speaker 1: con was revealed that she had the most distinguished board

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Speaker 1: of any company in the history of the world. They

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Speaker 1: were like three secretaries of State on it, like it

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Speaker 1: was and it was like you look at just like

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Speaker 1: the like that's part of what trick that Fortune article

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Speaker 1: is He's talking to all these people who are like, well,

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Speaker 1: all of you are some of the most famous people

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Speaker 1: in the history of American politics, and you're all for

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Speaker 1: the same company. And the coasties around both sides of

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Speaker 1: the aisle too, Like there was like Bill Clinton and

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden put in like a hundred fifty million dollars

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden and Clinton Clinton approved it. Yeah, so it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's got bipartisan that's yeah. And it and here's what

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Speaker 1: the most important is that, like all of those people

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Speaker 1: were very distinguished. None of them had any background in

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Speaker 1: mediciner sites, Like, none of them were quite like anyone

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Speaker 1: is equipped to look at a phone and be like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I bet people who want to put this in their pocket.

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Speaker 1: Anyone's qualified to use a phone like almost no one's

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Speaker 1: qualified test blood. Yeah, like the bizarre footage of Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden going to like cool blood curious guys, and it's

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Speaker 1: one of those things like I can't even attack, Like

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Speaker 1: I don't like Biden, but I can't attack him for that.

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Speaker 1: He's like what was he supposed to do? Like like

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Speaker 1: walks into a lab and it's like, yeah, it looks

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Speaker 1: it looks like like like I'm Joe Biden, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a doctor, but yeah, there's Joe Biden Hills to die on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean speaking of like who you, as the administration

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Speaker 1: send to look at theos maybe the what do you

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Speaker 1: call the boss doctor? What the boss doctor of the country,

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Speaker 1: the doctor in charge? Yeah, the president doctor, big doctor,

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Speaker 1: surgeon general. You send the surgeon general, Like that would

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Speaker 1: have been a better person to see doctor, but that's

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Speaker 1: not as famous. The big doctor, the big doctor, doctor

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Speaker 1: b he's just the biggest doctor. They have to fight

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Speaker 1: each other. They have to fight each other. So Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Holmes and Paranis were actually incapable of selling themselves to

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Speaker 1: people who knew the first thing about medical science, which

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Speaker 1: is why they focused on grifting secretaries of state and

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Speaker 1: retired generals. According to Dr fuse, Holmes was expert at

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Speaker 1: talking her way through little matters like her technology not

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Speaker 1: actually working, mainly by bringing up her famous dead relatives quote.

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Speaker 1: That family background was part of the con she would

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Speaker 1: be introduced, and when questions were asked about her scientific

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Speaker 1: knowledge or business acumen, these family members would be brought up. Now,

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Speaker 1: Fusapsy again has an ax to grind and as a doctor.

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Speaker 1: But the two thousand nine interview with that venture capitalist

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Speaker 1: Donald Lucas, back when Tharanos was still king shit backs

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Speaker 1: all this up. Quote. Here's what Lucas said when he

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Speaker 1: was explaining why he invested. She had no background at business,

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Speaker 1: So it's quite presumptuous for somebody to say I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be president of the company. But there's an important distinction.

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Speaker 1: That's what I felt when I first met her. After

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Speaker 1: spending a lot more time with her, I learned her

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Speaker 1: great grandfather was an entrepreneur and started Fleishman's Packaged East.

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Speaker 1: It was very successful, So that was one side, that's

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Speaker 1: the entrepreneurs side, but she was in the medical side. Ah.

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Speaker 1: It turns out later the hospital very near where they

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Speaker 1: lived is named after her great uncle, who was involved

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Speaker 1: with medicine, So she came by both of those talents

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Speaker 1: necessary here, one medicine and the other entrepreneurship quite naturally complete.

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Speaker 1: That's insane, and he's literally saying I thought it was

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Speaker 1: crazy that a nineteen year old run a company, but

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Speaker 1: then I learned out one of her relatives was a

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Speaker 1: doctor and another two hundred years ago started a business

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Speaker 1: that is completely unhitched. The I mean the fact that

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Speaker 1: she constantly is like deploying this excuse of like but yeast,

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Speaker 1: and then they're like, oh yeah, totally the yeast. And

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Speaker 1: when I first read that fuse quote, I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this seems like he's exaggerating, But then you read this

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Speaker 1: thing from Lucas and it's like, oh no, that's exactly

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Speaker 1: what she did and it worked. My grandfather was a

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Speaker 1: prisoner of war in Korea. That doesn't make me a

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Speaker 1: prisoner of war in Korea. It just doesn't make it.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't Jamie. Thank you for your service. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: So I listen, I use the cloud. I got to

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Speaker 1: break traffic laws constantly. That's mainly what she shouted at

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Speaker 1: the traffic cops as you drive past. Yeah, just flip

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Speaker 1: them off and say, by purple hearts that keep like

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Speaker 1: a pile of purple hearts in the center console. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it stays trapped with my purple hearts out. That's fucking absurd,

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Speaker 1: It's ludicrous. Imagine that and meaning it. Imagine imagine saying

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Speaker 1: that as Donald Lucas distinguished venture capitalist and not realizing

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Speaker 1: that all of venture capitalism is a fraud. Right, You're

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Speaker 1: literally saying because two dead people that she never met

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Speaker 1: were good at two parts of her business, that she's

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Speaker 1: equipped to run a bus genetically qualified? Are you? Are

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Speaker 1: you fucking serious business? That is? I've never heard that

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Speaker 1: quote before that. It's fucking insane. Wow. Man, it's like

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Speaker 1: the stupidity you know, infects at every level. That's wild.

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Speaker 1: It sure does. That should be that should replace eplurbous

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Speaker 1: as our as our national motto. Stupidity effects everyone. Now,

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Speaker 1: one thing Elizabeth Holmes could not fool were the laws

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Speaker 1: of physics. Fairness's equipment did not work in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and fourteen, but they were performing tins and then hundreds

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Speaker 1: of thousands of blood tests and multiple states while Tharoness

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Speaker 1: marketing focused around the nanottainer, the friendly little capsule that

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Speaker 1: only required a teeny bit of your blood that was

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Speaker 1: only capable of handling a couple of different tests. Thoroness

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Speaker 1: used traditional vena puncture, a k a. The thing everyone

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Speaker 1: in the industry did for the others, and just continued

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Speaker 1: to lie on their marketing that they could handle more

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Speaker 1: than two hundred tests. Roger Parloff, the author of that

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Speaker 1: Fortune article, I keep going back to pinned a mia

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Speaker 1: colpa in two thousand fifteen, after thearoness exploded talking I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: he well, I'm sorry, talking about how Holmes had misled him.

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Speaker 1: He thought it was weird when he learned they still

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Speaker 1: did vena puncture for many of their tests, and he

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Speaker 1: asked her about it. Quote. The biggest reason Holmes told

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Speaker 1: me in May two thousand and fourteen is we're scaling.

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Speaker 1: As we're building out this infrastructure, we're also building out

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Speaker 1: our inventory and our capacity in terms of the number

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Speaker 1: of samples that we can handle at any given point

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Speaker 1: in time. We'll use vnapuncture in addition to the micro samples,

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Speaker 1: just to handle the volume of sample that we're processing. Now.

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Speaker 1: Parlav noted correctly that this made no goddamn sense, drawing

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Speaker 1: way the funk more blood would not help in handling volume.

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Speaker 1: He kept asking her about it until she told him

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Speaker 1: answering this question would be revealing the trade secret, right,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that, I mean, that's what I hope

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Speaker 1: is one of the outcomes of this whole mess is

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Speaker 1: that like, you can't say you can't like withhold information

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Speaker 1: when it's a medical company like that can't There can't

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Speaker 1: be all these n d A s surrounding medical equipment

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Speaker 1: that is happening. Goddamn iPhone, right, like, yeah, keep your

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Speaker 1: iPhone secret? Who gives a ship? You know? I find

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Speaker 1: the facial unlocking to be triggering. I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: do that. It doesn't recognize me when I look nice. Oh, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: I know it hurts. Here's my feeling, that's hurtful. Was

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Speaker 1: it hurt my feeling? Let's go on, Steve jobs is grave. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: it was gonna was gonna dump my Diva cup and Steve,

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Speaker 1: that sounds like a fun road trip, ye now. And

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Speaker 1: obviously two, the FDA did it's goddamn job and surprised

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Speaker 1: there in US with an inspection, according to Vanity Fair Quote.

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Speaker 1: According to someone close to the company, Holmes was sent

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Speaker 1: into a panic, calling advisers to try and resolve the issue,

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Speaker 1: and around the same time, regulators from the Centers for

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Speaker 1: Medicare and Medicaid Services, which regulates laboratories, visited the labs

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Speaker 1: and found major inaccuracies in the testing being done on patients.

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Speaker 1: CMS also soon discovered that some of the tests theiriness

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Speaker 1: was performing were so inaccurate that they could leave patients

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Speaker 1: at risk of internal bleeding or of stroke among those

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Speaker 1: prone to blood clots. The agency found that Tharinis appeared

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Speaker 1: to ignore the erratic results from its own quality control

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Speaker 1: checks during a six month period last year, and supplied

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Speaker 1: eighty one patients with questionable test results. Cool. Cool. Some

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Speaker 1: of the most unfortunate things about like this story is

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Speaker 1: that one of the major people who like exposed Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Holmes his name is Tyler. Yeah. That's a frustrating thing.

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Speaker 1: I don't like when Tyler's win this case. He was right,

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Speaker 1: and he seems like a nice guy. He seems like

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Speaker 1: someone who really hasn't like a conscience. I just don't

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Speaker 1: want to chalk one up for a Tyler. No, it's

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Speaker 1: like when you meet a nice guy named Chad, which

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Speaker 1: I have a couple of times, and it's always like

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Speaker 1: you like, I don't like this, just I would prefer okay,

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Speaker 1: I just wish he wasn't, but like, good for him,

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Speaker 1: but good for him, Good for you for breaking the mold.

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Speaker 1: You know, speaking of breaking the mold, you know it

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Speaker 1: really breaks the mold. Jamie loftus these products and these

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Speaker 1: services and products products. We're back now. The next month,

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Speaker 1: after that surprise f D a you know, inspection thing

404
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Speaker 1: that found out nothing worked, the FDA declared the nanottainer

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Speaker 1: to be an uncleared device, removing it from availability for

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Speaker 1: all but one test. Arenas was now using traditional old

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Speaker 1: fashioned vena puncture for nearly all of their tests, and

408
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Speaker 1: since neither the Edison nor its successor, the Mini Lab

409
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Speaker 1: worked for ship, they were doing most of the analysis

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Speaker 1: on equipment they bought from other companies, including the companies

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Speaker 1: they were claiming to want to disrupt. It's sort of

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Speaker 1: like if Apple had just been ripping apart HP laptops

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Speaker 1: and putting a fancy looking case on the outside. They're

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Speaker 1: just like, here's an iPhone, but it's a Sony Via. No.

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Speaker 1: At this point, you're probably wondering what the hell was

416
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Speaker 1: going on with the rest of Farinos. At this point

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Speaker 1: was anyone inside like standing up and saying, what the fuck?

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Speaker 1: Nothing works? Yeah, Well, like any good cult leader, Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Holmes organized the entire company in such a way that

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Speaker 1: everyone's job was incredibly compartmentalized. People knew about their specific

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Speaker 1: project and nothing else that was going on at the company.

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Speaker 1: Employees were often banned from communicating with one another about

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Speaker 1: their work. This didn't seem super insane because many Silicon

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Speaker 1: Valley companies like Apple had similar policies and but stopping

425
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,679
Speaker 1: devices from leaking out, but was weird because this is

426
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 1: literally the opposite of the way good medical science is done.

427
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 1: Kind of when everyone talking, you want there to be transparency.

428
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 1: That's the point. That's the point, not it's crazy. Like

429
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Holmes at no point was like wait a second,

430
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: lives aren't phones. But that's not her vibe. Lives aren't phones. Yeah,

431
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: I'll say that. For Steve Jobs, he never was like

432
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: like after Apple. He was like, I guess I'll make

433
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 1: fun movies and different computers. He wasn't like he was

434
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: like a repulsive person, had a stink and harassed everyone,

435
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 1: but he wasn't trying to kill anyone. He knew was Yeah,

436
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: he's like, I can you know, this is what I

437
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,199
Speaker 1: can get away with, and I'm going for it. He

438
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 1: wasn't like, I'm gonna make a machine gun next. I

439
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 1: bet I can make a really good machine gun. But

440
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: that's that's classics. She's really disrupting people's health. Yeah, yeah,

441
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: disrupting people's health. That's that's a good tagline for this. Yeah,

442
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 1: oh boy, you want to? You want to the tagline

443
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 1: that I initially had for this episode. Elizabeth Holmes, the

444
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:36,439
Speaker 1: white woman who became a white man. What brave, brave

445
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 1: of her had? I mean, I just want girls to

446
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: also have access to the spoils of lake capitalism is

447
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: don't we all? Oh my god? Now? Uh? The secrecy

448
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,640
Speaker 1: and stress of managing a nine billion dollar company did

449
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: not actually do anything. That didn't actually do anything required

450
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: an insane schedule from homes. She reportedly slept four hours

451
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: a night and ate chocolate covered coffee beans all day

452
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 1: in order to stay a white corporate grifter. Recognition tip,

453
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: be wary of anyone who brags about how little they sleep.

454
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 1: It is not a good thing. No one makes better

455
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 1: decisions when they don't sleep. Absolutely agree, in order to

456
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 1: keep ship further under wraps. She hired her brother Christian

457
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: to be the associate director of project management in two

458
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 1: thousand and eleven. Super cool. He had been out of college. Yeah,

459
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: he'd been out of college for two years and had

460
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: no relevant educational experience that would help him manage products

461
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: in a blood diagnostics company. Amazing. Yeah, well, he'll foot

462
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: right in sending the president of the company. He's going

463
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: to shout his way into a medical breakthrough, and he's like,

464
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,959
Speaker 1: we're just screaming in a cold building and ruining people's lives.

465
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: That's kind of Numerous employees did, of course, recognize that

466
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: something was up. Aarons had at rageous rates of turnover.

467
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 1: At one point, Holmes hired a bunch of employees from

468
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: her favorite company, Apple that were all gone inside of

469
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: two years. But Aaron has kept any former employees from

470
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: talking by threatening to sue anyone who so much has

471
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: wrote about their job in detail on LinkedIn. I think

472
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 1: it's also a dead giveaway when your company hires a

473
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: disproportionate amount of people fresh out of call who don't

474
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: have other options. Yeah, that's it. She did a lot

475
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: of She did a lot of that. Now Farness's law

476
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: team was incredibly expensive and headed by David Boys, another

477
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: incredibly respected old white dude. He was Al Gore's lawyer

478
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: during the recount, among other things, there's a big lawyers

479
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: behind marriage equality. He's like, he's like, he's like the

480
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs of lawyers. I guess you'd say, but that

481
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: doesn't really translate because he's actually he's bad. He's bad.

482
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: I was like, he's I was like, he's bad. Right,

483
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: He's a bad person who was a lawyer on good cases.

484
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: But that happens. Lawyers or often bad, whether or not

485
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: they do good or bad things, are lawless people there, Yeah,

486
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: exactly all lawyers are anarchists. Justin Maxwell was one of

487
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: the designers behind the Edison. He later spoke to Carrie

488
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: Row for the book Bad Blood. His story provides a

489
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: good look at just how Holmes treated her employees on

490
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: a one on one basis. Quote, during an email exchange

491
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: one evening, he asked her for a piece of information

492
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: he needed to write a section of software. She responded

493
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: that she'd looked for it when she was back at

494
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: work the next morning. The clear implication was that she

495
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: had gone home, but minutes later he stumbled on her

496
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: in Tony Nugent's office down the hall, just got angry

497
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: and stormed off. Elizabeth came by his office a little

498
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: later to say she understood what he was upset, but

499
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: warned him don't ever walk off on me again. Just

500
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 1: and try to remind himself that Elizabeth was very young

501
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: and still had a lot to learn about running a company,

502
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: and one of their last email exchanges, he recommended to

503
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: management self help books to her, The No Asshole Rule,

504
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 1: building a civilized workplace and surviving one that isn't and

505
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: beyond bullshit Straight talk at Work included their links on Amazon.

506
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: He quit two days later. His resignation email read, in part,

507
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: good luck and please do read those books, watch the office,

508
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: and believe in the people who disagree with you. Lying

509
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: as a disgusting habit, and it flows through conversations here

510
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: like it's our own currency. The cultural disease here is

511
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: what we should be cering before we try to tackle obesity.

512
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, no ill will towards you. Since

513
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: you believe in what I was doing and I hoped

514
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 1: I would succeed at theories, I feel like I owe

515
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: you this bad attempted an exit interview. Since we have

516
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: no hr To officially recorded that's that's a great resignation,

517
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 1: savage moment for Savov Another sav mom, that's great. I

518
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: don't understand why recommend as she watched the office. That

519
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: just seemed like a fun thing to I think it

520
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: might just be because she was that bad of a

521
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: He was like, maybe you'll understand what you're doing if

522
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: you watched. I think he's say, you're like Michael Scott.

523
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 1: That seems generous. Honestly, yeah, because at least he had

524
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: a Michael Scott. Well, no, Michael Scott would totally have

525
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: tried to create a medical device company. She carries herself

526
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: more like a Jan Levinson Goold, but Joan Levenson gool

527
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: was good at her job. That's the difference at the start.

528
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: At least now Elizabeth did not respond. I found no

529
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: evidence that she ever watched the office either. God damn it,

530
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: God damn it. The areas where she most shown seemed

531
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: to be one talking people into investing in therapnos and

532
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: to motivating employees at company white events and parties. She

533
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: was legitimately talented at inspiring people. During one company Christmas party,

534
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: she gave this speech, The mini lab is the most

535
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: important thing humanity has ever built. If you don't believe

536
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: this is the case, you should leave now. Everyone needs

537
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: to work as hard as humanly possible to deliver it.

538
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: Cool Cult. Cool Cult. During the company party to celebrate

539
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,479
Speaker 1: the deal with safe Ways, told everyone, if anyone here

540
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 1: believes you are not working on the best thing humans

541
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: have ever built, or if your cynical, then you should leave.

542
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: Ever for all these speeches, I like to imagine she's

543
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: sipping from a mug of human blood and just getting

544
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: a little milk mustache. She's like, anyways, slurb Yeah, I

545
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 1: do give Sophie almost that the same speech before every

546
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: single episode. Behind the Bastards, behind the Bard is the

547
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,719
Speaker 1: most you don't believe this is the most important thing

548
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: anyone's ever done. And then you and then you chug

549
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: a forty of blood. That's generous. I've seen it. It's

550
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: malt liquor. I okay, it's a very dark and biscus. Well,

551
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: I mean you put my protein powder and pump on.

552
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 1: I pour a protein shot into my malt liquor, stir

553
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: that up. Get it really thick. I feel sick. My

554
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: My big problem with cold is that it's not quite

555
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: thick enough. I wish that beer was thicker. I wish

556
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: that malt liquor. We're not talking about beer when we

557
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: talk about and steel reserve. I wish that Mike's hard

558
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 1: lemonade came in a solid Mikes are jello. Oh my god, Jamie,

559
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: that's our billion dollar idea. We make ice cubes to

560
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: get them on the fucking Someone called Mike. Some call Mike.

561
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: We need this ship cubed cube your ship, Mike, Are

562
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: you fucking fool? One of the few distinguished older men

563
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,479
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Holmes was unable to brainwash was John carry Row,

564
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: a multiple Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalists with The Wall

565
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: Street Journal. He received a tip from a former Thearonos

566
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: Lab director that led to a much deeper investigation. In

567
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: October of two fifteen, he published the first of two

568
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: dozen articles. His first piece revealed Aaronus problems with the

569
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: nanotainers and the fact that very very little of the

570
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: promised revolutionary technology actually worked, in that they were using

571
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: other companies technology to do their blood tests. This was

572
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: not great for the Ainos. The company went into lockdown

573
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: for two days and nights. She hold up in what

574
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: was probably a very smelly conference room with Sunny Bowa,

575
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: all the company's lawyers, plus a team of crisis management professionals.

576
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: Forming a good plan proved impossible because their noosis technology

577
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: was fucking vapor and had been for ten years. And

578
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: been for ten years, according to Vanity Fair. Absent to plan,

579
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: Holmes embarked in a familiar course. She doubled down on

580
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: her narrative. She left the war room for her car.

581
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: She's often surrounded by her security detail, which sometimes numbers

582
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: as many as four men, who, for safety reasons, refer

583
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: to the young CEO as egal One, and headed for

584
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: the airport. She's been known to fly alone on a

585
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: six point five million dollar gulf Stream G one fifty.

586
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: Holmes subsequently took off for Boston to attend to Luncheon

587
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: for a previously scheduled appearance at the Harvard Medical School

588
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: Board of Fellows, where she would be honored as an inductee.

589
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: During the trip, Holmes fielded calls from her advisors in

590
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: the war room, She and her team decided on an

591
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: interview with Jim Kramer, the host of CNBC's Mad Money,

592
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: with whom she had a friendship that dated from a

593
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: previous interview was quickly arranged friends with Jim Kramer. That's

594
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: not that's I mean, that's such a bad look where

595
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: you're like, well, here's the here's the trusted, very rational

596
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: source I've chosen. It's like, oh, okay, a guy who's

597
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: won two Pulitzers is attacking us. We gotta fight back

598
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: with Jim Kramer with the bastion of truth. Jim Kramer.

599
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: There god her interview, and that is Oh yeah, I'm

600
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: gonna play every selection from that interview right now. It's amazing.

601
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: Just a fucking liar. She does get she is, if

602
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, compared to the first fit clip we played,

603
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: she's gotten a lot betters. Her pr trainer nailed it.

604
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: That person. Yeah, they should get a pulitzer for lying.

605
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: This is what happens when you work to change things

606
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: and first they think you're crazy, then they fight you,

607
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden you change the world.

608
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: And I have to say, I personally was shocked to

609
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: see that the Journal would publish something like this when

610
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: we had sent them over a thousand pages of documentation

611
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: demonstrating that the statements in their piece were false. But um,

612
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: what we're doing things differently and we're working to make

613
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,479
Speaker 1: a difference, and that means people raise questions and and

614
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: that's okay. Yeah, but in this case, it was pretty

615
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: disappointing to see that after every single one of the

616
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: sources that we spoke with who the Journal had contacted,

617
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: told us that the statements that were being attributed to

618
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: them were false or misleading, and the only sources who

619
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: were left were ones who wouldn't speak with us, who

620
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: on their own website say that they now do business

621
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: with lab Corps in their office, or in the other case,

622
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: demanded in writing that we pay them in cash upfront

623
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: for an hour to talk to them about their statements

624
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: to the journal. Those things were interested. Did the journal

625
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: know everything that you just said before they wrote the article?

626
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: Of course absolutely, that was all lies. Of course, just

627
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: I mean commit to the There is something to be

628
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,479
Speaker 1: I like, she's horror I like, no doubt she's bad person.

629
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: But there is something kind of majestic about watching someone

630
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: go down with the ship just complete ignorance. Yeah, it's

631
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,719
Speaker 1: it's there's a little bit of the l Ron Hubbard

632
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: in her, where it's like, well, okay, you didn't you

633
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: didn't just run away and blame someone else, you just

634
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: denied there was ever a problem. She is not gonna

635
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: admit she's done anything wrong. So what she has said,

636
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: like six hundred sixty six, I don't recalls, like, yeah,

637
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: it's amazing, it's Ronald Reagan level. I don't recalls. Yeah,

638
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: not genius, but consistent. Now, it was obviously not super

639
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: compelling rebuttal to again one of the best reporters on

640
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: the planet, tearing you a partner article for the Wall

641
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: Street Journal. But it was the best she could do,

642
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: getting the fact that you know, everything that carry sent

643
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: was accurately. Yeah, she's got she's she's got that mad money,

644
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: mad money. Why is he on the air? Why why

645
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: is he in the documentary? How is his heart not

646
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: exploded from what I assume is a daily cocktail of

647
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: cocaine and red bull. I will say it was when

648
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: when he appears in the documentary, it was very jarring

649
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: to see him outside of that set. It seems like

650
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: he has not left in many years. Cheff. Seems like

651
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: they must lock him in there. I think he lives

652
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: in a tent on just off screen. There's guys with

653
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: like rifles hanging out outside the set. We've got to

654
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: make sure Kramer doesn't get out. I've never seen him

655
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: outside of that set. It was very it's weird. Yeah,

656
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: I guess he just had to now. Uh. When she

657
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: got back to Palo Alto, Holmes had to finally address

658
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: her employees. She insisted again that the journal had gotten

659
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: the story wrong and that the reporter, John Carrierew, was

660
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: just picking a fight with her company to make a

661
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: name for himself. You know, a better name than having rises. Okay, yeah, Now,

662
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: as Holmes and Bowan, he pumped up the crowd, a

663
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: chance started up. Fuck you Carrie ru Fuck you Carrierew,

664
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: Fuck you Carrie Rew. First of all, original, very original,

665
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: super love it kind of start shooting out Baroness T

666
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: shirts out of T shirt guns. You know it. You

667
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: know she was just tossing blood vials and purple hearts.

668
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: Should have got nano tanners. Jock Sham started to play

669
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: d I. You know, go down, go down in style,

670
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: and if you want to go down in style, you

671
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: need the stylish products and services advertised by our advertisers.

672
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: Thank you, We're back. For a while, employees and management

673
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: at THEOIS hunkered down and tried to wait out the storm.

674
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: They attempted to ignore the mounting problems by focusing their

675
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: rage against carrierew and one company party sans staff, programmed

676
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: a video game based on Space Invaders. The gun was

677
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: the Mini Lab, the bullets were nanotainers, and the aliens

678
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: were John Carreyrew's face. Kind of a niche game. Kind

679
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: of a niche game, feel like, not a lot of

680
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: traveling power. Tragically, for the AOOS, that was not enough

681
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: to stop carry Row's reporting. In the inevitable unraveling of

682
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: theories that it triggered, Walgreen's cut all ties with the

683
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: company and closed their wellness centers. The FDA banned the

684
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: company from using the edison to the centers for Medicare

685
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: and Medicaid services, ban homes from owning or running a

686
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: medical lab for two years. The SEC and the U. S.

687
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: Attorney's Office opened investigations. Two class action lawsuits from people

688
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: who had their blood analyzed by Tharonos are still underway.

689
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: Ford's removed homes from its list of America's richest self

690
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: made women, lord its estimate of her net worth to nothing.

691
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 1: Something like a million people were told their blood test

692
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 1: results had been complete bullshit and they would need to

693
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: retake them now, Holmes tried to stage a comeback for

694
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 1: some reason. She started this by adopting a husky puppy

695
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 1: and naming it Balto, after the dog that led a

696
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: sled team filled with medicine to save an Alaska village.

697
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: In Balto became a constant companion, both at the Los

698
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: Altos mansion Aaronos rented for Elizabeth and at the Paronos offices.

699
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: Even though all her scientists warned her that dog Harey

700
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: did not mix well with blood testing laboratories, she had

701
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: not bother to potty train Boltop, so he pissed in

702
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: ship Oliver what was ostensibly again a medical lab. Holmes

703
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,399
Speaker 1: also started to claim that her husky was a wolf

704
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 1: at this point, telling everyone who asked, and probably also

705
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: a lot of people who did not ask. By the

706
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: end of two dozen seventeen, things were bad enough that

707
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Holmes had to stop traveling by private jet. The

708
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: company was forced out of the office that had been

709
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,280
Speaker 1: expensively redesigned and spent more than a million dollars a

710
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: month in rent On. They moved into a lab facility

711
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: in Newark, which is not generally seen as nice as

712
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: Palo Alto. Balto continued to shoot on the floor in

713
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 1: this new facility. According to Vanity Quair fair Quote, it's

714
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 1: been a long according to Vanity fair Quote. Through all this,

715
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: former employees of the company have told me Holmes had

716
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 1: a bizarre way of acting like nothing was wrong. Even

717
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 1: more peculiarly, she seemed happy the company was falling apart,

718
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: their countless indictments piling up. Employees are leaving in droves,

719
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: and Elizabeth, that's just weirdly chipper, one former senior executive

720
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: told me. One former board member also noted that Holmes

721
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: would come to board meetings chirpy and acting as if

722
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: everything was great. She would walk up to people in

723
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: the office who have just testified in front of the

724
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: SEC or been questioned by lawyers at the FDA, and

725
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: she would give them a hug and ask how they

726
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: were doing. She was so confident that the company would

727
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: be fine. Executives who worked with her said that she

728
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: enrolled Balto in a search and rescue program homes spent

729
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: weekends training him to find people in an emergency. Unfortunately,

730
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: huskies are not bred for rescue their long distance runners,

731
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: and Balto failed out. Her dog failed out of school,

732
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: dog failed out of school. I bet her narrative was

733
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 1: like he actually dropped doubt, he dropped out, he actually

734
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: search and company. Oh god, I mean these are like

735
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: classic things of just like ignoring reality. Your best friend

736
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: is not a person, uh not. I mean, listen, I

737
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: love my dogs who is named after Sonny Bowani. But

738
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: my best friend is a cat that lives in Texas.

739
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: So it's it's not that but but you know, like

740
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: the completely ignoring reality and being like my dog's a cop.

741
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: Baroness officially died in September two, eighteen. All nine million

742
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: dollars Elizabeth Holmes had raised via grifting evaporated into a

743
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: pile of broken nanotainers and dogshit. Numerous lawsuits and investigations

744
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: into Holmes and Thearinos are still ongoing. She faces up

745
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: to twenty years in prison if convicted for all her crimes.

746
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: Her defense and the defense of her co defendant, Sonny Balwani,

747
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: seems to rest on the idea that they didn't actually

748
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: commit fraud. Aaroness was just a normal business failure. Also, technically,

749
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: neither of them made money off the company. This is

750
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: sort of true, but for more than a decade, Holmes

751
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: is Apple, bodyguards, mansion bills, et cetera. Were all paid

752
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: for by THEANOS. One former employee later recalled quote the

753
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: company paid for everything. She would submit her miles if

754
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: she drove the six miles to her house in a

755
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: loss altos, this's what you do if you're working for

756
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: like twenty bucks an hour. Now what you do you're

757
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: the CEO and they're renting you a mansion, Elizabeth. Former

758
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 1: THEONIS executives who were close to Elizabeth Holmes during the

759
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: end of THEANOS noted that she never really accepted any

760
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: responsibility for what had happened. When former colleague said, Elizabeth

761
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: sees herself as the victim. She blames John Carrirew, she

762
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: blames David Boys, and she blames hed their King. Boys

763
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: and King were both her lawyers. Holmes thinks that her

764
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: lawyers should have somehow been able to contain the bad

765
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: pr from again a Pulitzer Prize wedding reporter tearing their

766
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: company open with unimpeachable facts in a Wall Street Journal article.

767
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: At this moment, Elizabeth Holmes lives in San Francisco in

768
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: a very nice apartment that seems to be paid for

769
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 1: by their rich kids. She is dating. She now dresses

770
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: like a normal person. Last year she and her boyfriend

771
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: went to Burning Man. She looks weirdly normal in the pictures,

772
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: like an an actual adult person. She seems to be

773
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: trying to turn her dog into an instant m star.

774
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: Here's her some of her Instagram pictures. Oh my god,

775
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: this could have been your life. Girl. She looks like

776
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: a normal person that looks like a normal, basic white lady. Wow.

777
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: Look at that hat her vest. It is a great dog.

778
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: No shade on the dog. The dog did nothing. The

779
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: dog did nothing wrong. The dog was just trying to

780
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: could have learned how to. Yeah, it seems like it is.

781
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: He's got nicknames for him. I'm very interested as into

782
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: like what happens with her, because it's like I could

783
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: see it going one way of like you know, classics

784
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: cammer and getting the minimum punishment and then you know,

785
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: staging a comeback ten years from now. But I could

786
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: also see it as like I'm making an example for

787
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley and actually putting her away. Maybe she'll get

788
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: to go to prison, even though like none of the

789
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 1: guys in the financial industry who did irreparably more harm. Ever,

790
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: exactly like one of those example makers. She's more criminal

791
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: than she is victim, but part of her seems to

792
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: be a victim. And we just I just don't know

793
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: enough about the relationship with Sonny, but it does seem

794
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: like something fucked up happened there. I mean, it's and

795
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there's some relationships with each gap that

796
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: have turned out fine by and large, but I don't know.

797
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: I mean it not to not to continue to stand

798
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: for with Helms. It does seem like she has deluded

799
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 1: herself into thinking she did nothing wrong. I do believe

800
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: that she thinks that. Yeah, I don't think she's taken

801
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: a look in the mirror, and it's partly because she

802
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: was doing Again, when I say Steve Jobs was a grifter,

803
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: it's not that he didn't eventually produce great stuff. It's

804
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 1: that he knew how to lie an obvious skate and

805
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: con people until the product was ready. And that's what

806
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: I think, that's what she was trying to do. And

807
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: I think, but I think that it My impression of

808
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs was always like he knew more what he

809
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: was doing and like just didn't care, versus like totally

810
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: scissor fucking your own brain. Into believing something that is

811
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: patently untrue. Yeah. I think he was a very comfortable

812
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 1: person with himself, and I doubt she ever was. Maybe

813
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: she's now maybe. I mean, she looks happy in the picture.

814
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: She's got a hot boyfriend. They're going to burning man.

815
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: That's everything that's annoying to me. So it's possible that

816
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 1: if she doesn't wind up doing twenty years behind bars,

817
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Holmes may have gotten over the need to cause

818
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: play as Steve Jobs. I don't know. What I do

819
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: know is that the system that allowed her to funk

820
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: with so many people's lives and cost so much money

821
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: and count so much money is still alive and well.

822
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: That Vanity Fair article I keep referring to has a

823
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: great breakdown of this quote. It generally works like this.

824
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: The venture capitalists, who are mostly white men, don't really

825
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: know what they're doing with any certainty. It's impossible, after all,

826
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: to truly predict the next big thing, so they bet

827
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: a little money on every company that they can, with

828
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 1: the hope that one of them hits it big. The entrepreneurs,

829
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: also mostly white men, often work on a lot of

830
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: meaningless stuff, like using code to deliver frozen yogurt more expeditiously,

831
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: or apps that let you say yo and only yo

832
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: to your friends. People are so hard on yo. It

833
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 1: was a fun app. The entrepreneurs generally glorify their efforts

834
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: by saying that their innovation could change the world, which

835
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:01,959
Speaker 1: tends to appease the venture capitalists because they can also

836
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: then pretend that they're not only there to make money. Also,

837
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: this helps to seduce the tech press, also largely composed

838
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: of white men, which is often ready to play a

839
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: game of access in exchange for a few more page

840
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: views of their story about the company that is trying

841
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: to change the world by getting frozen yogurt to companies

842
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,479
Speaker 1: more expeditiously. The financial rewards speak for themselves. Silicon Valley,

843
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: which is fifty square miles, has created more wealth than

844
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: any place in human history. In the end, it isn't

845
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: in anyone's interest to call bullshit. Heart degree, Yeah kind

846
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: of kind of nailed it. Well, yeah, no, that's like

847
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 1: a terrific piece. That is everything that's happening in that

848
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: little chunky California, and it's and it's very unclear of

849
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: like whether anything will actually be done to uh nothing,

850
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,959
Speaker 1: she might I mean she might, but it's but there's

851
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: always so many cases of like sacrificial lambs in just

852
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: so like Silicon Valley can move forward and being like, look, no,

853
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: we took care of that. Elizabeth Holmes is in jail,

854
00:42:54,480 --> 00:43:00,959
Speaker 1: the one grifter in Silicon Valley, like they're so, Mark

855
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg is disrupting AIDS medicine. I mean, either way, I

856
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: feel confident that bullshit will prevail. That also could be

857
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: this country's new motto, bullshit will prevail, will prevail. I

858
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: hope that, you know, Elizabeth Holmes goes to prison, she

859
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: does do Facebook live streams from her gorgeous cell um.

860
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: I hope that she tries to write a novel Allah

861
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: Lauren Conrad, I bet it'll be great. I hope she

862
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: tries to start a lifestyle comming. I hope she does

863
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: every scand I hope she tries to write a novel

864
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: that is like a fictional way of addressing America's race problem,

865
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: because I think if anyone's qualified, it's qualified, it's li

866
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: ho oh god, I don't know. I guess we just

867
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: have to sit tight and hope that this Jennifer Laurence

868
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: movie doesn't come out because it sounds insufferable. Yeah, I

869
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: hope it proves to be like Theanos, a giant, overfunded,

870
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: unworkable mess. Still, I mean, blood curing a good idea,

871
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,919
Speaker 1: a great idea, A great idea for a haunted house,

872
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: a great idea for like the sequel to what we

873
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: do in the Shadows, like a fantastic idea. Absolutely, a

874
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: great idea for that. Well, she should have just been

875
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: in in Hollywood. She was just in the wrong area

876
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: of California. Yeah, And I think it was just that

877
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: she came in too late to try to make a

878
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: tech product like she saw that. Like, well, no, like

879
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: that's that clearly we're near the end of where you

880
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 1: can just jump into that company with a new gadget.

881
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 1: So blood blood Yeah, hey, hashtag relatable. We've all got

882
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: blood except for Peter Teel, which is why he needs

883
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: your blood vampire narrative. That's what I want Adam McKay

884
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: movie about. I wanted to Peter Teel vampire, Peter Teel,

885
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: the vampire nerd who is helping the government track undocumented

886
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: immigrants in using like appropriating toking term to do it,

887
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: Like that's a better use of stealing the name of

888
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: the worst guy in those books's device to name his

889
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: company after. Like, stop it, stop it, Peter. I don't

890
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: think we need to run Elizabeth Homes over with another

891
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: intellectual property car. Like, I just don't think we go

892
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:24,240
Speaker 1: so Jamie Loftus, Yeah, we're back in the PI zone.

893
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: It's very cool. It's for my turtlenext Uh. Yeah, you

894
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: can listen to the Bechtel Cast every Thursday with me

895
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: and Caitlin Durante. I can find me on Twitter at

896
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: Jamie Lefts Help. And I'm touring my show Boss whome

897
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: is Girl about a fictional girl boss called Shell Gasoline Sandwich. Uh,

898
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 1: touring that around the country in the springing summer. Well

899
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: that sounds great. Uh check out her show even if

900
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 1: you're not in Cleveland. What did I get you to say? Pronouncing?

901
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: I don't apologize for ouncing Steve Jobs ten different ways

902
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: throughout this episode. And you know why, because he was

903
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: a dicky he burn. I'm kidding. I don't feel her strong. Yeah,

904
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: I don't feel that strong about it either. I just

905
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: feel badly for Steve Wozniak, who I'm sure still mourns

906
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: him beautifully. Oh that's a heartbreaker. Bad dad, Bad dad Dad.

907
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: Check out our website Behind the Bastards dot com. Check

908
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: us out on the Twits and the Grahams that at

909
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: Bastards bod Listen to our T shirts by them. Listen

910
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: to our T shirts on t public. Behind the Bastards.

911
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: I have a new podcast called it Could Happen Here.

912
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 1: It's a sad podcast about how we're all going to

913
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: die in horrible, horrible conflict soon. Awesome. Can't wait. I

914
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: love you