1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:26,756 Speaker 1: Pushkin. On March twelfth, twenty nineteen, the US Attorney's Office 2 00:00:26,756 --> 00:00:31,356 Speaker 1: for the District of Massachusetts unsealed indictments against more than 3 00:00:31,436 --> 00:00:35,236 Speaker 1: fifty people, indictments that were part of a criminal investigation 4 00:00:35,596 --> 00:00:42,476 Speaker 1: code named Varsity Blues. Business leaders, celebrities, actors, rich people 5 00:00:42,516 --> 00:00:45,156 Speaker 1: accused of paying millions of dollars to get their children 6 00:00:45,356 --> 00:00:50,916 Speaker 1: into elite universities millions of dollars in bribes. One by one, 7 00:00:51,356 --> 00:00:55,516 Speaker 1: the parents were arrested, pled guilty, paid massive fines, served time, 8 00:00:55,876 --> 00:01:01,716 Speaker 1: reputations were ruined. The media ran story after story. Fifty 9 00:01:01,876 --> 00:01:05,396 Speaker 1: people facing charges, and more arrests are likely in the 10 00:01:05,396 --> 00:01:06,356 Speaker 1: weeks and months ahead. 11 00:01:06,716 --> 00:01:10,316 Speaker 2: Actresses Lori Laughlin and Felicity Hoffmann are two of the 12 00:01:10,356 --> 00:01:13,396 Speaker 2: dozens of wealthy parents accused in the alleged scheme. 13 00:01:13,196 --> 00:01:16,476 Speaker 3: The biggest college admissions fraud in US history. 14 00:01:16,516 --> 00:01:20,116 Speaker 1: Meantime, the scandal stretches from Hollywood to Boston next week. 15 00:01:20,556 --> 00:01:22,916 Speaker 1: It was the largest investigation of its kind in the 16 00:01:22,996 --> 00:01:27,516 Speaker 1: history of the Justice Department. Fifty six cases a home run, 17 00:01:32,076 --> 00:01:35,156 Speaker 1: and then came the case at the very very end, 18 00:01:35,716 --> 00:01:39,956 Speaker 1: the fifty seventh case. This is me in an email 19 00:01:39,996 --> 00:01:43,156 Speaker 1: to the US Attorney's Office of the District of Massachusetts, 20 00:01:43,356 --> 00:01:48,596 Speaker 1: asking about the final case in the Varsity Blues Investigation. Hello, there, 21 00:01:48,636 --> 00:01:51,036 Speaker 1: I'm looking to interview any of the US attorneys who 22 00:01:51,036 --> 00:01:53,596 Speaker 1: were involved in the Amen Couri case from a few 23 00:01:53,676 --> 00:01:58,836 Speaker 1: years ago. Do you think that might be possible? Thanks m. 24 00:01:58,996 --> 00:02:03,116 Speaker 1: A day later I get an answer three lines received. 25 00:02:04,036 --> 00:02:08,036 Speaker 1: Thank you. While we greatly appreciate the invitation, we must 26 00:02:08,076 --> 00:02:12,676 Speaker 1: respectfully decline at this time. At the Department of Justice, 27 00:02:13,236 --> 00:02:16,076 Speaker 1: they do not want to talk about case fifty seven 28 00:02:16,396 --> 00:02:24,916 Speaker 1: of the Varsity Blues Investigation. Oh but I do. My 29 00:02:24,996 --> 00:02:28,276 Speaker 1: name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening to Revisionist History, my 30 00:02:28,396 --> 00:02:32,996 Speaker 1: podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. This episode is part 31 00:02:33,036 --> 00:02:35,116 Speaker 1: of a little mini series I'm doing to introduce my 32 00:02:35,276 --> 00:02:38,716 Speaker 1: new book called Revenge of the Tipping Point, the sequel 33 00:02:38,756 --> 00:02:41,356 Speaker 1: to my very first book from twenty five years ago, 34 00:02:41,676 --> 00:02:45,236 Speaker 1: The Tipping Point. If you read Revenge, and of course 35 00:02:45,276 --> 00:02:47,916 Speaker 1: I really hope you do, you'll see that halfway through 36 00:02:47,996 --> 00:02:52,236 Speaker 1: chapter five, the Mysterious Case of the Harvard Women's Rugby Team, 37 00:02:52,596 --> 00:02:55,676 Speaker 1: I make reference to a court case called US v. 38 00:02:55,956 --> 00:02:56,276 Speaker 4: Cooory. 39 00:02:57,236 --> 00:03:03,716 Speaker 1: That's the fifty seventh Varsity Blues case. But in chapter 40 00:03:03,756 --> 00:03:06,556 Speaker 1: five of Revenge of the Tipping Point, I tell only 41 00:03:06,676 --> 00:03:09,436 Speaker 1: part of the story of US v. Koory. Did I 42 00:03:09,436 --> 00:03:11,916 Speaker 1: want to tell the whole story? Of course I did. 43 00:03:12,356 --> 00:03:14,916 Speaker 1: I lost sleep over trying to shoehorn the whole coury 44 00:03:14,956 --> 00:03:18,596 Speaker 1: case into my book because I regard usv. Coory as 45 00:03:18,636 --> 00:03:22,436 Speaker 1: one of the old time, most riveting, most unintentionally hilarious, 46 00:03:22,716 --> 00:03:28,556 Speaker 1: most heartbreaking legal battles ever. I mean, it ticks every 47 00:03:28,596 --> 00:03:32,756 Speaker 1: single one of my boxes. It involves a tantalizing philosophical puzzle, 48 00:03:33,036 --> 00:03:36,236 Speaker 1: It has twists and turns, It makes elite schools look 49 00:03:36,316 --> 00:03:39,556 Speaker 1: absolutely ridiculous, And if you are a regular listener to 50 00:03:39,596 --> 00:03:43,476 Speaker 1: this podcast, you know how happy that makes me. Not 51 00:03:43,596 --> 00:03:47,676 Speaker 1: to mention, it features a cross examination so brutal that 52 00:03:48,556 --> 00:03:51,796 Speaker 1: fair warning. If you are triggered by a defense attorney 53 00:03:51,836 --> 00:03:55,556 Speaker 1: disemboweling a witness in open court, you should probably turn 54 00:03:55,636 --> 00:03:58,636 Speaker 1: this off right now and switch to something safe like 55 00:03:58,756 --> 00:04:04,476 Speaker 1: Joe Rogan. But in the end, I could only figure 56 00:04:04,516 --> 00:04:07,556 Speaker 1: out how to put half of my favorite case ever 57 00:04:07,996 --> 00:04:11,436 Speaker 1: in Revenge of the Tip Point, So I thought, just 58 00:04:11,476 --> 00:04:15,276 Speaker 1: to whet your appetite, I'd use this episode to tell 59 00:04:15,316 --> 00:04:18,876 Speaker 1: you about the other half. What I've come to think 60 00:04:18,916 --> 00:04:25,556 Speaker 1: of as the Georgetown massacre. I was actually in Boca 61 00:04:25,636 --> 00:04:28,676 Speaker 1: Ratone on vacation with my family when I first heard 62 00:04:28,676 --> 00:04:32,356 Speaker 1: about the Kori case. My cousin Kyle mentioned it to 63 00:04:32,396 --> 00:04:35,236 Speaker 1: me in passing, and I was a bit bored. Needed 64 00:04:35,236 --> 00:04:39,276 Speaker 1: something to read, so I ordered the trial transcripts twelve 65 00:04:39,556 --> 00:04:44,076 Speaker 1: hundred pages, started reading them over breakfast. Breakfast led to lunch, 66 00:04:44,396 --> 00:04:47,756 Speaker 1: lunch to dinner, then all day. The next day, the 67 00:04:47,836 --> 00:04:53,036 Speaker 1: lazy river was put on hold. I sat poolside, oblivious 68 00:04:53,036 --> 00:04:58,236 Speaker 1: to the children squealing happily around me. The case centered 69 00:04:58,396 --> 00:05:01,516 Speaker 1: on a very rich man named amon C. Koori, who 70 00:05:01,556 --> 00:05:05,036 Speaker 1: is the son of an even richer man, Aman J. Koory. 71 00:05:05,436 --> 00:05:08,436 Speaker 2: So if you look across industries, I mean, my background 72 00:05:08,556 --> 00:05:09,076 Speaker 2: is private. 73 00:05:09,756 --> 00:05:12,516 Speaker 1: Corey Jr. Didn't want to talk to me, but I 74 00:05:12,556 --> 00:05:14,956 Speaker 1: wanted you to get a sense of his voice. So 75 00:05:15,036 --> 00:05:18,836 Speaker 1: here he is speaking on a podcast called Michigan Reimagined. 76 00:05:19,316 --> 00:05:23,316 Speaker 1: One of his current projects is disrupting the trailer park business. 77 00:05:23,756 --> 00:05:31,836 Speaker 2: Here look across industries, from pagemakers to automobiles, to jet airplanes, 78 00:05:31,956 --> 00:05:38,996 Speaker 2: to helicopters to computers. The only industry that hauls materials 79 00:05:39,556 --> 00:05:44,276 Speaker 2: and men to locations and for the homebuilding industry. The 80 00:05:44,276 --> 00:05:47,476 Speaker 2: home building industry is archaic and it's approach. 81 00:05:49,196 --> 00:05:52,956 Speaker 1: Corey is in his fifties, graying nicely at the temples, 82 00:05:53,476 --> 00:05:56,956 Speaker 1: a long, narrow face framed by a pair of exuberant ears. 83 00:05:57,556 --> 00:06:00,956 Speaker 1: A man who takes care of himself, and his great 84 00:06:00,996 --> 00:06:05,996 Speaker 1: passion is tennis. He played varsity tennis at Brown University. 85 00:06:06,236 --> 00:06:08,596 Speaker 1: He played at the country clubs of Palm Beach and 86 00:06:08,636 --> 00:06:12,396 Speaker 1: Cape Cof. He played with his kids. Something about hitting 87 00:06:12,476 --> 00:06:16,236 Speaker 1: a round, fuzzy ball over a net clearly made him very, 88 00:06:16,396 --> 00:06:21,276 Speaker 1: very happy, And what he really wanted was his oldest daughter, Katherine, 89 00:06:21,676 --> 00:06:25,476 Speaker 1: to play tennis in college, just like he had. So 90 00:06:25,596 --> 00:06:29,996 Speaker 1: one day back in twenty fourteen, Amon Curry goes to 91 00:06:30,076 --> 00:06:32,716 Speaker 1: his college reunion and has a boozy dinner at the 92 00:06:32,716 --> 00:06:36,156 Speaker 1: Capitol Grill in Providence with his old teammates from the 93 00:06:36,156 --> 00:06:42,436 Speaker 1: Brown tennis squad, one of whom is Gordon Ernst aka Gordy, 94 00:06:42,956 --> 00:06:47,156 Speaker 1: who was then the tennis coach at Georgetown University. Gordy 95 00:06:47,236 --> 00:06:50,316 Speaker 1: Ernst was not yet notorious, but after the launch of 96 00:06:50,356 --> 00:06:56,396 Speaker 1: the Varsity Blues investigation, he would be the US Attorney's 97 00:06:56,436 --> 00:06:59,836 Speaker 1: Office for the District of Massachusetts. On the occasion of 98 00:06:59,836 --> 00:07:06,036 Speaker 1: Gordie's sentencing hearing said this about him, Mister Ernst was 99 00:07:06,076 --> 00:07:09,076 Speaker 1: one of the most prolific participants in cheating the college 100 00:07:09,316 --> 00:07:13,956 Speaker 1: admissions system. He put nearly three point five million dollars 101 00:07:14,036 --> 00:07:17,396 Speaker 1: in bribes directly into his pocket and sold close to 102 00:07:17,476 --> 00:07:22,156 Speaker 1: two dozen slots at Georgetown to the highest bidder. And 103 00:07:22,236 --> 00:07:25,436 Speaker 1: according to the US Attorney's Office, one of those two 104 00:07:25,516 --> 00:07:29,116 Speaker 1: dozen slots on the Georgetown tennis team was sold at 105 00:07:29,116 --> 00:07:33,036 Speaker 1: the Boozy Brown reunion dinner to Aim and Coury on 106 00:07:33,156 --> 00:07:37,876 Speaker 1: behalf of his daughter, Catherine. Gordy went down and he 107 00:07:37,916 --> 00:07:42,316 Speaker 1: brought his old teammate with him, Case number fifty seven. 108 00:07:44,956 --> 00:07:48,436 Speaker 1: Midway through my long days in Bocha, devouring the trial transcript, 109 00:07:48,676 --> 00:07:51,796 Speaker 1: I realized that Cooury's lawyers were based just down the road, 110 00:07:52,236 --> 00:07:55,436 Speaker 1: so I called them up. I said, I'm in Boca. 111 00:07:56,156 --> 00:07:59,916 Speaker 1: I'm up to page eleven hundred. They said, come on down, 112 00:08:00,636 --> 00:08:02,996 Speaker 1: and I made a bee line from Miami. Met up 113 00:08:02,996 --> 00:08:06,356 Speaker 1: with Roy Black, his partner Howard Shrebnick, and their two 114 00:08:06,396 --> 00:08:11,156 Speaker 1: longtime partners, big shiny office tower, conference room, stacks of 115 00:08:11,236 --> 00:08:15,756 Speaker 1: documents on the table. That's great, sure, yeah, So Roy 116 00:08:15,836 --> 00:08:20,356 Speaker 1: Black is tall, slender, usteer almost eighty years old, an 117 00:08:20,396 --> 00:08:25,796 Speaker 1: apex legal predator, completely and utterly intimidating. His nickname is 118 00:08:26,036 --> 00:08:30,276 Speaker 1: the Professor. Howard Shrebnick is much younger. He looks like 119 00:08:30,316 --> 00:08:32,916 Speaker 1: he's in the nineteen eighties hair metal band. He races 120 00:08:32,916 --> 00:08:37,676 Speaker 1: his motorcycles around Miami in the early morning hours. Oh, 121 00:08:37,716 --> 00:08:40,196 Speaker 1: I nearly forgot to mention, well. 122 00:08:39,996 --> 00:08:43,796 Speaker 5: Your argument next in case fourteen four nineteen Luis versus 123 00:08:43,876 --> 00:08:44,636 Speaker 5: United States. 124 00:08:44,956 --> 00:08:46,476 Speaker 3: Mister Shrebnick, thank. 125 00:08:46,316 --> 00:08:48,876 Speaker 5: You, mister Chief Justice, and may it please the court. 126 00:08:49,836 --> 00:08:52,916 Speaker 1: Has also argued two cases before the Supreme Court. 127 00:08:53,116 --> 00:08:57,316 Speaker 6: Howard is the intellectual, does all the legal work as 128 00:08:57,316 --> 00:08:59,956 Speaker 6: well as working on the fact. But I leave for 129 00:09:00,076 --> 00:09:02,756 Speaker 6: him all that kind of stuff. That's the great thing 130 00:09:02,796 --> 00:09:05,236 Speaker 6: about the way that we work. And he'll read cases 131 00:09:05,276 --> 00:09:08,316 Speaker 6: all day and all night. And his only dream in 132 00:09:08,396 --> 00:09:10,796 Speaker 6: life as if the case can go to the Supreme Court. 133 00:09:11,196 --> 00:09:14,116 Speaker 6: But I'm trying to make sure it doesn't go into 134 00:09:14,156 --> 00:09:16,436 Speaker 6: appeals by winning the trial. 135 00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:19,716 Speaker 1: And Roy began by telling me what Amon said when 136 00:09:19,756 --> 00:09:21,116 Speaker 1: they first talked about the case. 137 00:09:21,756 --> 00:09:24,036 Speaker 6: He said, when he came here, said I want to 138 00:09:24,076 --> 00:09:26,476 Speaker 6: go to trial. I don't want to take a plea. 139 00:09:26,756 --> 00:09:30,276 Speaker 6: I don't feel that I did was a crime. Now, 140 00:09:30,396 --> 00:09:33,516 Speaker 6: maybe people will disagree with the way I did it, 141 00:09:33,596 --> 00:09:35,516 Speaker 6: and of course then I did it in a stupid 142 00:09:35,596 --> 00:09:38,636 Speaker 6: way that it makes it look bad and all of that. 143 00:09:38,756 --> 00:09:41,156 Speaker 6: But I don't feel I committed a crime, and I 144 00:09:41,196 --> 00:09:44,396 Speaker 6: think it would be against my own integrity if I 145 00:09:44,436 --> 00:09:46,476 Speaker 6: went in there and played guilty just to get a 146 00:09:46,636 --> 00:09:49,436 Speaker 6: shorter sentence, and if they give me a longer sentence, 147 00:09:49,476 --> 00:09:54,196 Speaker 6: so be it. I would rather have my day in court, 148 00:09:54,436 --> 00:09:57,556 Speaker 6: let a jury make the decision and what I want 149 00:09:57,596 --> 00:09:59,916 Speaker 6: to do. And this is about six to seven months 150 00:09:59,956 --> 00:10:02,636 Speaker 6: before his trial. He said, I will Are you willing 151 00:10:02,716 --> 00:10:05,196 Speaker 6: to take the case with an agreement you're going to 152 00:10:05,196 --> 00:10:07,356 Speaker 6: go to trial? I said, yes, that's what we do. 153 00:10:08,196 --> 00:10:11,356 Speaker 1: A little digression. Many years ago, I went hiking in 154 00:10:11,436 --> 00:10:13,876 Speaker 1: Portugal with a good friend of mine whose dad was 155 00:10:13,996 --> 00:10:17,356 Speaker 1: very wealthy, and we got lost and I said to her, 156 00:10:17,716 --> 00:10:20,476 Speaker 1: are you worried? And she said no, because I have 157 00:10:20,636 --> 00:10:25,436 Speaker 1: the number. And I said what's the number? And she said, oh, 158 00:10:25,916 --> 00:10:28,956 Speaker 1: my dad has these ex Massad guys on retainer, and 159 00:10:28,996 --> 00:10:31,556 Speaker 1: if you're ever in trouble, you call them and they 160 00:10:31,556 --> 00:10:37,156 Speaker 1: come and get you. Massaud Israel's secret intelligence service. It 161 00:10:37,276 --> 00:10:40,596 Speaker 1: is entirely possible she was pulling my leg I don't know. 162 00:10:41,276 --> 00:10:44,036 Speaker 1: So why am I telling you this? Because Roy Black 163 00:10:44,316 --> 00:10:47,556 Speaker 1: and Howard Shrebnik are the legal version of those ex 164 00:10:47,636 --> 00:10:50,676 Speaker 1: massad guys. If you are a very rich person in 165 00:10:50,756 --> 00:10:53,676 Speaker 1: America and you find yourself in a great deal of 166 00:10:53,796 --> 00:10:56,876 Speaker 1: legal peril, your best bet is to call on the 167 00:10:56,916 --> 00:11:01,036 Speaker 1: offices a Black and Shrebnick. We're going to be spending 168 00:11:01,436 --> 00:11:03,436 Speaker 1: a lot of time with Roy and Howard over the 169 00:11:03,436 --> 00:11:06,756 Speaker 1: course of the next two episodes. Oh yeah, I'm doing 170 00:11:06,836 --> 00:11:09,916 Speaker 1: two episodes on the Georgetown massacre, and they will come 171 00:11:09,916 --> 00:11:13,516 Speaker 1: a point when you will ask yourself, is Malcolm Glabwell 172 00:11:13,636 --> 00:11:15,476 Speaker 1: totally in the tank for the law firm of Black 173 00:11:15,476 --> 00:11:18,996 Speaker 1: and Shrebnik And the answer is, of course, I am. 174 00:11:20,076 --> 00:11:21,476 Speaker 1: Wait where were we? 175 00:11:22,876 --> 00:11:22,996 Speaker 6: Oh? 176 00:11:23,076 --> 00:11:23,916 Speaker 4: Yes, am? 177 00:11:23,996 --> 00:11:27,716 Speaker 1: And Koory is charged and indicted one count of conspiracy 178 00:11:27,716 --> 00:11:31,436 Speaker 1: to commit mail fraud, one count of bribery. He retains 179 00:11:31,556 --> 00:11:34,916 Speaker 1: Roy Black and Howard Shrebnik, and he decides that he's 180 00:11:34,996 --> 00:11:38,996 Speaker 1: not going to take a plea. Now understand that everyone 181 00:11:39,156 --> 00:11:43,676 Speaker 1: else charged in the Varsity Blues investigation, all fifty six 182 00:11:43,796 --> 00:11:49,316 Speaker 1: of them pled guilty. The famous actresses Felicity Huffman Laurie Lochlin, 183 00:11:50,156 --> 00:11:53,076 Speaker 1: folded their cards, paid a fine. Some of them did 184 00:11:53,116 --> 00:11:56,156 Speaker 1: short stints in prison. How could they not They were 185 00:11:56,156 --> 00:11:59,636 Speaker 1: caught paying money under the table to college coaches to 186 00:11:59,676 --> 00:12:03,116 Speaker 1: pretend that their kids could play sports when they actually couldn't, 187 00:12:03,916 --> 00:12:06,956 Speaker 1: and why so their kids could get into a school 188 00:12:07,236 --> 00:12:12,636 Speaker 1: that they otherwise could not. That's illegal, right. 189 00:12:14,036 --> 00:12:18,596 Speaker 3: You know. Bribe is one of those basic crimes kind 190 00:12:18,596 --> 00:12:21,636 Speaker 3: of like murder, theft, rape, by which I mean not 191 00:12:21,716 --> 00:12:24,476 Speaker 3: that it's as grave as that, but it's one of 192 00:12:24,476 --> 00:12:28,636 Speaker 3: those crimes that are in criminal law scholars called malum incee, 193 00:12:29,036 --> 00:12:32,436 Speaker 3: meaning the earliest crimes, the ones conduct that was immoral, 194 00:12:32,516 --> 00:12:37,356 Speaker 3: and that's indisputably immoral. That's why it became immediately part 195 00:12:37,396 --> 00:12:39,796 Speaker 3: of every criminal code going back I don't know, probably 196 00:12:39,796 --> 00:12:40,836 Speaker 3: Hamlabi's days. 197 00:12:41,316 --> 00:12:44,956 Speaker 1: This is Leo Katz, Professor of Law, University of Pennsylvania. 198 00:12:45,036 --> 00:12:47,876 Speaker 1: In the midst of my infatuation with US v. Korry, 199 00:12:48,356 --> 00:12:51,476 Speaker 1: I asked one of the countries leading legal experts to 200 00:12:51,516 --> 00:12:53,476 Speaker 1: read up on the case so I could ask him 201 00:12:53,596 --> 00:12:54,396 Speaker 1: questions about it. 202 00:12:54,756 --> 00:12:56,876 Speaker 3: And then, of course there are crimes that are they're 203 00:12:56,876 --> 00:13:01,036 Speaker 3: called malum prohibitum, like you know, not registering for the draft, 204 00:13:01,236 --> 00:13:04,716 Speaker 3: or selling illegal drugs, or even not paying taxes, which 205 00:13:04,756 --> 00:13:07,796 Speaker 3: only became crimes because we decided to make them. 206 00:13:07,836 --> 00:13:11,836 Speaker 1: That point is that we expect to have arguments and 207 00:13:11,916 --> 00:13:16,916 Speaker 1: complications and gray areas about malum prohibitum, the made up crimes, 208 00:13:17,196 --> 00:13:22,556 Speaker 1: but not malaman sa, the indisputably immoral acts. Those are 209 00:13:22,596 --> 00:13:25,276 Speaker 1: supposed to be open and shut for Aim and Curry 210 00:13:25,316 --> 00:13:28,236 Speaker 1: to say, I'm going to fight this bribery charge. I 211 00:13:28,276 --> 00:13:30,636 Speaker 1: don't think what I did was wrong. Was an act 212 00:13:30,716 --> 00:13:35,876 Speaker 1: of extraordinary audacity, bordering on just plain foolishness. He decided 213 00:13:35,916 --> 00:13:38,916 Speaker 1: to be done Quixote and tilt at the windmill that 214 00:13:39,076 --> 00:13:42,756 Speaker 1: was the US Attorney's office of the District of Massachusetts. 215 00:13:43,156 --> 00:13:45,956 Speaker 1: So he came to the same conference room I was 216 00:13:45,996 --> 00:13:47,916 Speaker 1: sitting in to ask for help. 217 00:13:48,596 --> 00:13:51,476 Speaker 6: So that's really what happened. He wanted to have a trial, 218 00:13:51,556 --> 00:13:53,916 Speaker 6: and we said, yes, we will do it and dedicate 219 00:13:53,956 --> 00:13:57,596 Speaker 6: ourselves to get ready for this case. No, and that's 220 00:13:57,636 --> 00:13:58,316 Speaker 6: how it started. 221 00:13:58,436 --> 00:14:02,636 Speaker 1: So when you have a case like this, you must 222 00:14:02,716 --> 00:14:06,036 Speaker 1: have a kind of gut instinct about whether it's winnable 223 00:14:06,036 --> 00:14:09,476 Speaker 1: at the outset. So I'm curious about what you're well, 224 00:14:11,196 --> 00:14:11,596 Speaker 1: I don't know. 225 00:14:11,676 --> 00:14:14,196 Speaker 6: We did not, at least I didn't have that. I 226 00:14:14,236 --> 00:14:17,196 Speaker 6: thought that we were behind the eight ball from the beginning, 227 00:14:17,756 --> 00:14:21,516 Speaker 6: that everybody else had either lost or pled guilty. And 228 00:14:21,596 --> 00:14:26,236 Speaker 6: I didn't have great optimism about the case, you know, 229 00:14:26,276 --> 00:14:29,956 Speaker 6: when the client came in. But I said, listen, that's 230 00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:33,636 Speaker 6: been my whole career is taking cases where things look bleak. 231 00:14:33,716 --> 00:14:36,236 Speaker 6: I mean, that's what we specialize in. 232 00:14:36,876 --> 00:14:39,876 Speaker 1: Black shook his head. The lawyer's nightmare is a client 233 00:14:39,916 --> 00:14:42,716 Speaker 1: who will not take the easy way out. On the 234 00:14:42,756 --> 00:14:45,596 Speaker 1: other side of the conference room table, Howard was shaking 235 00:14:45,596 --> 00:14:46,356 Speaker 1: his head as well. 236 00:14:47,276 --> 00:14:48,436 Speaker 6: He wanted to testify. 237 00:14:48,956 --> 00:14:51,716 Speaker 5: In fact, it was a battle to convince him he 238 00:14:51,756 --> 00:14:54,796 Speaker 5: should not testify, because he wanted the jury to know 239 00:14:54,876 --> 00:14:57,356 Speaker 5: the truth that he did not bribe the coach, and 240 00:14:57,396 --> 00:14:59,716 Speaker 5: that what he did was an act of generosity after 241 00:14:59,796 --> 00:15:01,716 Speaker 5: the fact, not a crime. 242 00:15:01,476 --> 00:15:02,396 Speaker 4: Before the fact. 243 00:15:02,836 --> 00:15:05,756 Speaker 1: A man attacking a windmill, armed only with a tennis 244 00:15:05,876 --> 00:15:09,836 Speaker 1: racket a lost cause to I tell you that this 245 00:15:09,996 --> 00:15:12,716 Speaker 1: was my favorite legal case ever, I think I did. 246 00:15:27,876 --> 00:15:30,436 Speaker 1: The first witness for the government was a man named 247 00:15:30,476 --> 00:15:33,956 Speaker 1: Timothy Donovan. He was one of the former Brown tennis 248 00:15:33,996 --> 00:15:37,436 Speaker 1: players who attended the Fateful Dinner at the Capitol Grill. 249 00:15:37,996 --> 00:15:42,676 Speaker 1: He now runs a tennis academy in Milton, Massachusetts. There's 250 00:15:42,676 --> 00:15:46,236 Speaker 1: no tape of the trial proceedings, but we've recreated testimonies 251 00:15:46,236 --> 00:15:49,636 Speaker 1: for you using two loyal members of the Greater Pushkin community, 252 00:15:50,036 --> 00:15:53,636 Speaker 1: Dak Shepherd and Britt Marling. Here's Britt as one of 253 00:15:53,676 --> 00:15:57,276 Speaker 1: the prosecutors examining Donovan, as played by Dak Shepherd. 254 00:15:57,716 --> 00:15:59,316 Speaker 7: Are you familiar with the defendant? 255 00:15:59,476 --> 00:15:59,676 Speaker 2: Am? 256 00:15:59,756 --> 00:16:00,196 Speaker 7: And Corey? 257 00:16:01,316 --> 00:16:01,716 Speaker 4: I am? 258 00:16:02,516 --> 00:16:03,236 Speaker 7: How do you know him? 259 00:16:04,636 --> 00:16:07,796 Speaker 4: We were teammates on the tennis team at Brown University 260 00:16:08,276 --> 00:16:09,116 Speaker 4: in the late eighties. 261 00:16:10,756 --> 00:16:12,716 Speaker 7: Did there come a time when you entered into an 262 00:16:12,796 --> 00:16:14,916 Speaker 7: arrangement with the defendant concerning his daughter? 263 00:16:16,156 --> 00:16:16,436 Speaker 4: Yes? 264 00:16:17,756 --> 00:16:19,236 Speaker 7: What was the nature of that arrangement. 265 00:16:21,076 --> 00:16:23,476 Speaker 4: The nature of it was, I was going to help 266 00:16:23,596 --> 00:16:26,876 Speaker 4: facilitate a deal where the defendant would pay two hundred 267 00:16:26,876 --> 00:16:30,476 Speaker 4: thousand in cash in exchange for a recruiting slot at 268 00:16:30,516 --> 00:16:31,716 Speaker 4: Georgetown University. 269 00:16:32,756 --> 00:16:35,156 Speaker 7: And who was he going to pay two hundred thousand 270 00:16:35,196 --> 00:16:37,116 Speaker 7: dollars in cash to as a part of this deal. 271 00:16:38,396 --> 00:16:41,876 Speaker 4: Gordon Ernst, the coach at the time at Georgetown. 272 00:16:42,876 --> 00:16:44,556 Speaker 7: And what was the payment for. 273 00:16:45,556 --> 00:16:49,836 Speaker 4: An admission slot on the team, and what was your 274 00:16:49,916 --> 00:16:53,596 Speaker 4: role in the deal? I was essentially the middle person 275 00:16:53,676 --> 00:16:57,556 Speaker 4: to help with communication back and forth between Gordy Ernst 276 00:16:57,596 --> 00:16:58,516 Speaker 4: and Aim and Coury. 277 00:17:00,156 --> 00:17:02,796 Speaker 7: Was that payment made? 278 00:17:03,196 --> 00:17:07,276 Speaker 4: It was by whom by Aim and Coury. 279 00:17:08,916 --> 00:17:12,036 Speaker 7: What was your understanding of whether the defendant's daughter was 280 00:17:12,116 --> 00:17:14,276 Speaker 7: actually qualified to play tennis? 281 00:17:16,156 --> 00:17:18,796 Speaker 4: She was not qualified to play at that level of 282 00:17:18,836 --> 00:17:19,956 Speaker 4: college tennis. 283 00:17:20,796 --> 00:17:23,196 Speaker 7: What was your understanding of whether she was actually going 284 00:17:23,236 --> 00:17:24,636 Speaker 7: to play tennis at Georgetown? 285 00:17:26,036 --> 00:17:28,276 Speaker 4: The defendant and I talked about how she had no 286 00:17:28,356 --> 00:17:29,316 Speaker 4: plans to play there. 287 00:17:30,396 --> 00:17:33,516 Speaker 1: To be specific, Donovan went to Cooy's house on Cape 288 00:17:33,556 --> 00:17:36,636 Speaker 1: cod picked up a brown paper grocery bag with one 289 00:17:36,716 --> 00:17:40,276 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty thousand dollars in cash, got twenty K 290 00:17:40,356 --> 00:17:44,156 Speaker 1: for himself, and delivered the package to Gordie Ernst's wife, 291 00:17:44,596 --> 00:17:47,196 Speaker 1: who stashed it in a safe deposit box. 292 00:17:48,356 --> 00:17:51,356 Speaker 7: How did catherine scores compared to the average scores of 293 00:17:51,396 --> 00:17:54,396 Speaker 7: your clients who were admitted to Georgetown as tennis recruits? 294 00:17:55,036 --> 00:17:56,396 Speaker 4: They were quite a bit lower. 295 00:17:57,836 --> 00:18:01,196 Speaker 7: If we can look at page four, please we see 296 00:18:01,196 --> 00:18:04,596 Speaker 7: a copy of Catherine's transcript, and in particular, her junior 297 00:18:04,676 --> 00:18:09,396 Speaker 7: year average was seventy eight point five. So how did 298 00:18:09,476 --> 00:18:12,156 Speaker 7: Catherine's GPA compare to the average GPA of your clients 299 00:18:12,196 --> 00:18:17,196 Speaker 7: who were admitted to Georgetown as tennis recruits significantly lower. 300 00:18:18,676 --> 00:18:23,036 Speaker 1: After Donovan came a parade of other witnesses, tennis people, 301 00:18:23,396 --> 00:18:27,796 Speaker 1: people from Katherine Corey's high school, her guidance counselor tennis coach, 302 00:18:27,996 --> 00:18:31,036 Speaker 1: all saying the same thing, Katie Coury at a school 303 00:18:31,076 --> 00:18:35,436 Speaker 1: like Georgetown is a dubious proposition. Day two of the 304 00:18:35,476 --> 00:18:39,916 Speaker 1: trial was not good for the defense. Day three not good. 305 00:18:40,276 --> 00:18:42,956 Speaker 1: Day four comes and goes. If you are Aman Curry 306 00:18:43,196 --> 00:18:46,476 Speaker 1: sitting in the defendant's chair, you're thinking, I should have 307 00:18:46,516 --> 00:18:51,756 Speaker 1: taken a plea. I'm going away for years. But then 308 00:18:52,716 --> 00:18:57,236 Speaker 1: came day five, the Georgetown massacre. Let's talk about Brenda Smith, 309 00:18:57,796 --> 00:19:03,276 Speaker 1: which I thought was the in my reading, was the highlight. 310 00:19:04,756 --> 00:19:08,196 Speaker 1: On day five, Howard and Roy called a witness who 311 00:19:08,276 --> 00:19:12,316 Speaker 1: worked as a fund for the Georgetown Athletic department. Her 312 00:19:12,396 --> 00:19:15,916 Speaker 1: name was Brenda Smith. Smith did not come to the 313 00:19:15,916 --> 00:19:19,836 Speaker 1: courthouse willingly. She was peened. All she knew going in 314 00:19:20,076 --> 00:19:23,196 Speaker 1: was what the Georgetown lawyers clearly told her, which was 315 00:19:23,396 --> 00:19:25,756 Speaker 1: not to worry. This is going to be easy. She 316 00:19:25,956 --> 00:19:29,036 Speaker 1: wasn't on trial, Amon Courry was. The case was black 317 00:19:29,036 --> 00:19:31,596 Speaker 1: and white and she was on the winning side, malamence. 318 00:19:32,796 --> 00:19:40,716 Speaker 1: So you describe that wholehit moment exchange for me, because I, 319 00:19:41,036 --> 00:19:42,156 Speaker 1: like I said, all I can do is read it. 320 00:19:42,196 --> 00:19:44,436 Speaker 1: So bring it to life. Howard sets the scene. 321 00:19:44,796 --> 00:19:48,476 Speaker 5: So now Brenda Smith, whose sole job as the quote 322 00:19:48,556 --> 00:19:52,836 Speaker 5: senior director of development for athletics close quote, and development 323 00:19:52,876 --> 00:19:59,076 Speaker 5: doesn't mean bodybuilding, conditioning. Fitness development is a euphemism for 324 00:19:59,276 --> 00:20:03,476 Speaker 5: money raising money. She's now on the witness stand and 325 00:20:03,556 --> 00:20:08,276 Speaker 5: she's going to suggest that money doesn't matter with regard 326 00:20:08,356 --> 00:20:12,236 Speaker 5: to admissions, that her job is entirely independent of the 327 00:20:12,276 --> 00:20:13,316 Speaker 5: admissions process. 328 00:20:13,836 --> 00:20:16,556 Speaker 1: This was the moral heart of the case. Why does 329 00:20:16,596 --> 00:20:19,876 Speaker 1: Amon Courry belong in jail because he used a grocery 330 00:20:19,916 --> 00:20:23,756 Speaker 1: bag full of cash to corrupt the admissions process at 331 00:20:23,756 --> 00:20:27,356 Speaker 1: a selective institution where the admissions process is supposed to 332 00:20:27,356 --> 00:20:32,356 Speaker 1: be about merit and achievement. So Smith takes the stand. 333 00:20:32,916 --> 00:20:36,956 Speaker 1: Roy's asking any questions once again? Are voice actors? 334 00:20:39,076 --> 00:20:41,716 Speaker 4: All right? I wanted to ask you about admissions into 335 00:20:41,716 --> 00:20:45,556 Speaker 4: the university. The university has an admissions department correct or 336 00:20:45,596 --> 00:20:54,316 Speaker 4: admissions office correct, And you are not an admissions officer. No, however, 337 00:20:54,356 --> 00:20:57,516 Speaker 4: you would communicate with admissions officers would you not? 338 00:20:58,636 --> 00:20:59,596 Speaker 7: No, I never did. 339 00:21:00,796 --> 00:21:03,556 Speaker 4: Would you ever get involved in attempting to influence the 340 00:21:03,596 --> 00:21:06,596 Speaker 4: admission of people into the university, No? 341 00:21:06,876 --> 00:21:07,316 Speaker 7: I did not. 342 00:21:08,876 --> 00:21:13,476 Speaker 4: Did you ever lobby the admissions office the admission's office. 343 00:21:13,116 --> 00:21:13,596 Speaker 7: No no. 344 00:21:15,996 --> 00:21:18,796 Speaker 4: Did you ever advise the admission's office about the amount 345 00:21:18,876 --> 00:21:19,836 Speaker 4: of money people had? 346 00:21:21,116 --> 00:21:21,196 Speaker 2: No? 347 00:21:22,876 --> 00:21:25,716 Speaker 4: Did you ever advise the admissions office that an athlete 348 00:21:25,876 --> 00:21:29,356 Speaker 4: or a potential athlete came from a well positioned family. 349 00:21:30,236 --> 00:21:30,356 Speaker 2: No? 350 00:21:31,876 --> 00:21:34,876 Speaker 4: Did you ever advise the admission office about the net 351 00:21:34,916 --> 00:21:37,076 Speaker 4: worth of parents of potential recruits? 352 00:21:38,316 --> 00:21:38,796 Speaker 7: I did not. 353 00:21:40,476 --> 00:21:43,796 Speaker 4: Did you ever advise the admissions office about the value 354 00:21:43,836 --> 00:21:44,796 Speaker 4: of parents' homes? 355 00:21:45,636 --> 00:21:46,636 Speaker 7: I did not know. 356 00:21:47,956 --> 00:21:50,596 Speaker 1: Brenda Smith does not seem to have realized at this 357 00:21:50,716 --> 00:21:54,876 Speaker 1: point that Howard and Roy have in their possession every email, 358 00:21:54,996 --> 00:21:58,436 Speaker 1: every email she wrote in the time of her employment 359 00:21:58,476 --> 00:22:02,036 Speaker 1: at Georgetown. Or maybe she does, but the implications of 360 00:22:02,076 --> 00:22:05,076 Speaker 1: that fact haven't sunk in. I mean, maybe she thought, 361 00:22:05,556 --> 00:22:08,836 Speaker 1: I wrote thousands and thousands of emails, ninety nine percent 362 00:22:08,876 --> 00:22:11,436 Speaker 1: of them. We're harmless. There's no way they read all 363 00:22:11,436 --> 00:22:15,756 Speaker 1: of them, is there? Well, yes, there is, and Roy 364 00:22:15,796 --> 00:22:18,356 Speaker 1: starts putting his favorites up on the screen. 365 00:22:19,716 --> 00:22:22,036 Speaker 4: All right, Can we turn to Exhibit two eighty five, 366 00:22:22,076 --> 00:22:25,596 Speaker 4: And if we could highlight the middle paragraph, by the way, 367 00:22:25,956 --> 00:22:28,996 Speaker 4: who is Let's go to the top first. I'm sorry, 368 00:22:29,116 --> 00:22:30,236 Speaker 4: who is David Nolan? 369 00:22:32,396 --> 00:22:34,956 Speaker 7: He is the women's soccer coach. 370 00:22:36,396 --> 00:22:39,676 Speaker 4: All right, and he's asking you if she is somebody 371 00:22:39,716 --> 00:22:40,716 Speaker 4: you want to cultivate. 372 00:22:40,756 --> 00:22:43,836 Speaker 7: Correct, that's what the email says. 373 00:22:44,236 --> 00:22:47,116 Speaker 4: Good, tell me what the word cultivate. 374 00:22:46,636 --> 00:22:51,716 Speaker 7: Means, develop a relationship with typically? 375 00:22:53,156 --> 00:22:56,396 Speaker 4: All right? If we could, Oh, you put down there 376 00:22:56,396 --> 00:23:02,836 Speaker 4: in the second one, you wrote five point six million house, right, correct? 377 00:23:05,396 --> 00:23:07,756 Speaker 4: So I guess you do find out how much parents' 378 00:23:07,756 --> 00:23:08,476 Speaker 4: homes are worth. 379 00:23:08,556 --> 00:23:12,756 Speaker 7: Right well, you asked me earlier. If I share that 380 00:23:12,836 --> 00:23:18,756 Speaker 7: information with admissions, I do not. This is an email 381 00:23:18,956 --> 00:23:20,836 Speaker 7: with a coach. This is different. 382 00:23:23,236 --> 00:23:25,996 Speaker 4: So as I understand it, then you're telling the soccer 383 00:23:26,116 --> 00:23:30,516 Speaker 4: coach that a prospective athletics soccer players' parents own a 384 00:23:30,596 --> 00:23:37,276 Speaker 4: home worth five point six million dollars, right, yes? Now, 385 00:23:37,276 --> 00:23:39,956 Speaker 4: can I ask you this, what does that have to 386 00:23:40,036 --> 00:23:42,036 Speaker 4: do with their ability to play soccer? 387 00:23:44,996 --> 00:23:45,356 Speaker 7: Nothing? 388 00:23:46,716 --> 00:23:48,676 Speaker 4: Does that have something to do with the ability to 389 00:23:48,676 --> 00:23:50,916 Speaker 4: get them to donate money to the soccer team. 390 00:23:52,996 --> 00:23:58,516 Speaker 7: No, it's simply the part of the family relationship that 391 00:23:58,636 --> 00:24:00,436 Speaker 7: I would be interested in. 392 00:24:02,556 --> 00:24:04,956 Speaker 1: The trial had ended well over a year before I 393 00:24:04,996 --> 00:24:07,796 Speaker 1: met with the Coury defense team, but everyone in the 394 00:24:07,796 --> 00:24:11,396 Speaker 1: conference room that day, Roy Howard and the two partners 395 00:24:11,516 --> 00:24:16,436 Speaker 1: Jackie Purchek and Maria n Neira remembered the key moments perfectly. 396 00:24:17,356 --> 00:24:20,396 Speaker 1: Something would come up in our conversation. They would pick 397 00:24:20,476 --> 00:24:22,516 Speaker 1: up one of the stacks of transcripts on the table 398 00:24:23,116 --> 00:24:24,796 Speaker 1: and just start reading one. 399 00:24:24,716 --> 00:24:27,436 Speaker 5: Of my favorite one of the coaches writing to Brenda Smith, 400 00:24:28,036 --> 00:24:31,476 Speaker 5: the coaches will have to recruit really rich kids who 401 00:24:31,516 --> 00:24:32,116 Speaker 5: can play. 402 00:24:32,716 --> 00:24:37,836 Speaker 6: Yeah, I remember that one. Yeah, well yeah, rich kids 403 00:24:37,876 --> 00:24:39,436 Speaker 6: who can plain? Yeah, Okay. 404 00:24:39,636 --> 00:24:41,916 Speaker 1: The beauty of it is that before you go to 405 00:24:41,956 --> 00:24:44,316 Speaker 1: the emil, Roy would say to the witness, and did 406 00:24:44,396 --> 00:24:47,316 Speaker 1: you ever get an email where somebody would tell you 407 00:24:47,396 --> 00:24:49,156 Speaker 1: that you need to recruit. 408 00:24:48,836 --> 00:24:50,076 Speaker 4: Really rich people? 409 00:24:50,356 --> 00:24:50,476 Speaker 1: Oh? 410 00:24:50,476 --> 00:24:52,316 Speaker 7: Of course not, mister black. 411 00:24:55,876 --> 00:24:59,116 Speaker 5: Brenda Smith writing to the swimming coach, in an effort 412 00:24:59,196 --> 00:25:02,356 Speaker 5: by Brenda Smith to get the swimming coach to recruit 413 00:25:02,396 --> 00:25:10,876 Speaker 5: the student quote, this is a family who may not 414 00:25:10,956 --> 00:25:16,476 Speaker 5: have seven figures, but definitely six figures. And Roy says 415 00:25:16,796 --> 00:25:20,436 Speaker 5: anything in there about the splits the times in one 416 00:25:20,476 --> 00:25:28,716 Speaker 5: hundred yard dash on the lacrosse team. Of course, our 417 00:25:28,756 --> 00:25:34,116 Speaker 5: case was about tennis, but it was institutional. Quote, I'm 418 00:25:34,236 --> 00:25:37,916 Speaker 5: checking on this potential recruit one of my five hundred 419 00:25:37,956 --> 00:25:42,236 Speaker 5: thousand dollars donors, and next I'm working on a five 420 00:25:42,316 --> 00:25:47,876 Speaker 5: hundred million plus. 421 00:25:47,956 --> 00:25:50,236 Speaker 4: Million Yeah. 422 00:25:50,796 --> 00:25:54,396 Speaker 5: And so Brenda Smith writes back, So if the student 423 00:25:54,476 --> 00:25:56,836 Speaker 5: is in your ballpark at all? Dot dot? 424 00:25:59,236 --> 00:26:02,036 Speaker 1: So wait, did you describe Brenda Smith to be during 425 00:26:02,076 --> 00:26:05,636 Speaker 1: that destiny? What's she doing? How is she dealing with this? 426 00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:09,356 Speaker 6: She was sort of befuddled, as I recalled. 427 00:26:09,316 --> 00:26:12,916 Speaker 5: Yes, another example of someone just denying what was obvious, 428 00:26:13,356 --> 00:26:16,156 Speaker 5: losing credibility as she's sitting on the witness stand to 429 00:26:16,236 --> 00:26:20,796 Speaker 5: try to pretend as if wealth did not affect the 430 00:26:20,796 --> 00:26:21,756 Speaker 5: emissions process. 431 00:26:22,116 --> 00:26:26,876 Speaker 6: They didn't want to ever admit that money influenced admissions. 432 00:26:27,156 --> 00:26:30,316 Speaker 6: They will never admit that, even no matter how many 433 00:26:30,356 --> 00:26:32,836 Speaker 6: emails we show them, they would still not admit it 434 00:26:32,956 --> 00:26:35,916 Speaker 6: because they knew they could not admit that it just 435 00:26:36,636 --> 00:26:40,116 Speaker 6: they thought that that would affect the integrity of the school. 436 00:26:40,436 --> 00:26:43,596 Speaker 1: Is she is she defiant or humiliated or no? 437 00:26:43,596 --> 00:26:46,596 Speaker 6: No, she wasn't defiant, as I said, She was more befuddled, 438 00:26:46,716 --> 00:26:49,636 Speaker 6: like why am I here? And I don't really want 439 00:26:49,716 --> 00:26:51,916 Speaker 6: to be here? But It's like they told me to 440 00:26:51,956 --> 00:26:57,076 Speaker 6: show up. So here I am what Georgetown's mission was 441 00:26:57,116 --> 00:27:02,156 Speaker 6: at the trial to look at to say that development 442 00:27:02,756 --> 00:27:07,156 Speaker 6: is separate from admissions. That was their whole theme, is 443 00:27:07,156 --> 00:27:10,196 Speaker 6: that we admit people, but it has nothing to do 444 00:27:10,276 --> 00:27:13,636 Speaker 6: with money. Sure will ask for money later, but there's 445 00:27:13,676 --> 00:27:17,956 Speaker 6: no connection between the two. That was what everybody on 446 00:27:18,076 --> 00:27:22,636 Speaker 6: direct examination testified too, because they thought as a matter 447 00:27:22,716 --> 00:27:27,036 Speaker 6: of integrity, they didn't want to admit that people got admitted. 448 00:27:27,436 --> 00:27:28,916 Speaker 6: And he's because of their wealth. 449 00:27:28,956 --> 00:27:32,316 Speaker 1: It's a good Catholic school. It's it's the parable of 450 00:27:32,316 --> 00:27:37,116 Speaker 1: the coin. And Jesus answering said, unto them, render to 451 00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:40,716 Speaker 1: Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the 452 00:27:40,716 --> 00:27:45,276 Speaker 1: things that are God's, and they marveled at him. Render 453 00:27:45,356 --> 00:27:48,916 Speaker 1: to development the things that are development, and to admissions 454 00:27:49,316 --> 00:27:55,036 Speaker 1: the things that are admissions. And finally we come to 455 00:27:55,076 --> 00:27:59,236 Speaker 1: my favorite email. It's from Gordie again, Gordon Ernst, Aiman 456 00:27:59,316 --> 00:28:03,516 Speaker 1: Curry's old tennis teammate to Brenda Smith. You can imagine 457 00:28:03,556 --> 00:28:06,716 Speaker 1: how much our apex predator is enjoying this moment. 458 00:28:07,796 --> 00:28:09,676 Speaker 4: Now let me show you, he said, send you this 459 00:28:09,796 --> 00:28:13,236 Speaker 4: email in which he says no idea if he has 460 00:28:13,356 --> 00:28:15,836 Speaker 4: do or not. He struck me as a bit of 461 00:28:15,876 --> 00:28:20,876 Speaker 4: a tire kicker, but who knows. Sometimes those are big hitters. Now, 462 00:28:20,956 --> 00:28:23,556 Speaker 4: why in the world would he be asking you or 463 00:28:23,636 --> 00:28:26,636 Speaker 4: telling you he has no idea if the kid has money. 464 00:28:28,636 --> 00:28:33,076 Speaker 7: I don't know. I don't know what this term is about. 465 00:28:33,996 --> 00:28:38,356 Speaker 4: You responded, he has no money at all, Right. 466 00:28:40,076 --> 00:28:40,996 Speaker 7: I do say that. 467 00:28:42,276 --> 00:28:45,836 Speaker 4: Why would you be telling that to the describing a 468 00:28:45,836 --> 00:28:48,356 Speaker 4: potential recruit like that to the tennis coach. 469 00:28:49,356 --> 00:28:54,156 Speaker 7: Oh, well, I believe because I was trying to get 470 00:28:54,236 --> 00:28:57,836 Speaker 7: him back on track. If you see his previous comment, 471 00:28:58,356 --> 00:29:00,596 Speaker 7: it was about money, and I was trying to talk 472 00:29:00,636 --> 00:29:03,876 Speaker 7: to him about whether or not this kid was a recruit. 473 00:29:04,476 --> 00:29:07,556 Speaker 7: The previous emails are about this parent wanting to hold 474 00:29:07,556 --> 00:29:09,316 Speaker 7: his kid out of college for a year to a 475 00:29:09,356 --> 00:29:11,716 Speaker 7: gap year, but with the hopes that the kid would 476 00:29:11,716 --> 00:29:16,156 Speaker 7: be able to play for Gordy, and I was trying 477 00:29:16,236 --> 00:29:18,956 Speaker 7: to get to the heart of the conversation. Looks like 478 00:29:19,596 --> 00:29:23,716 Speaker 7: which is how he would not be a recruit. 479 00:29:25,276 --> 00:29:28,556 Speaker 4: But your actual statement is he has no money at all. 480 00:29:29,516 --> 00:29:32,436 Speaker 4: Show me the money. 481 00:29:33,316 --> 00:29:37,596 Speaker 7: That's a joke, like that was a joke in our office. 482 00:29:37,916 --> 00:29:41,396 Speaker 7: Show me the money, Show me the money, Like it 483 00:29:41,476 --> 00:29:47,356 Speaker 7: was just a joke in the office. 484 00:29:46,436 --> 00:29:49,836 Speaker 4: And then you end it by saying he sounds dreadful. 485 00:29:51,436 --> 00:29:52,836 Speaker 7: Yes I do. 486 00:29:53,956 --> 00:29:54,796 Speaker 4: Why would you say that? 487 00:29:57,876 --> 00:30:14,676 Speaker 1: I don't know, Oh, dear, so let us imagine that 488 00:30:14,876 --> 00:30:17,516 Speaker 1: you are sitting in the jury during the eight long 489 00:30:17,636 --> 00:30:21,236 Speaker 1: days of US v. Kurry. You might begin with a 490 00:30:21,356 --> 00:30:25,116 Speaker 1: very straightforward thought that rich people should not be buying 491 00:30:25,156 --> 00:30:29,516 Speaker 1: their children's way into Georgetown University. But then by day five, 492 00:30:29,836 --> 00:30:33,996 Speaker 1: after the Georgetown massacre, you begin to think, oh, wait 493 00:30:33,996 --> 00:30:38,116 Speaker 1: a minute. In a kind of roundabout way, Georgetown allows 494 00:30:38,236 --> 00:30:41,676 Speaker 1: rich people to buy their way into Georgetown University, only 495 00:30:41,956 --> 00:30:44,556 Speaker 1: they are a little more circumspect about it. I mean, 496 00:30:45,196 --> 00:30:48,076 Speaker 1: no one is making donations to Georgetown in a brown 497 00:30:48,076 --> 00:30:53,236 Speaker 1: paper bag. But what exactly is the difference between what 498 00:30:53,276 --> 00:30:56,556 Speaker 1: Amon Kurry and Gordy did and what the Georgetown Development 499 00:30:56,596 --> 00:31:00,916 Speaker 1: Office did every day? Isn't it just that Gordy and 500 00:31:01,076 --> 00:31:05,716 Speaker 1: Amon's arrangement was a bit too obvious. This was the 501 00:31:05,716 --> 00:31:09,996 Speaker 1: point that my legal expert Leo Katz made that suggested 502 00:31:10,236 --> 00:31:14,316 Speaker 1: a hypothetical scenario to make sense of this. Suppose that 503 00:31:14,396 --> 00:31:17,876 Speaker 1: after that boozy dinner at the Capitol Grill, Corey and 504 00:31:17,916 --> 00:31:21,116 Speaker 1: Gordy had gone to a lawyer, and the lawyer said 505 00:31:21,116 --> 00:31:24,196 Speaker 1: to Gordy, you should start a tennis camp. 506 00:31:24,676 --> 00:31:28,076 Speaker 3: And the lawyer says, you know, you could just you know, 507 00:31:28,356 --> 00:31:30,436 Speaker 3: charge an arm and a leg or maybe sort of 508 00:31:30,436 --> 00:31:34,156 Speaker 3: a sliding scale for getting admitted to the tennis camp, 509 00:31:34,316 --> 00:31:37,636 Speaker 3: and then you predominantly choose people from your tennis camp 510 00:31:37,716 --> 00:31:38,036 Speaker 3: to be. 511 00:31:38,116 --> 00:31:42,756 Speaker 1: Admitted, which you could justify. Right, You've seen them play, 512 00:31:42,876 --> 00:31:45,196 Speaker 1: you know the strengths. 513 00:31:44,756 --> 00:31:46,676 Speaker 3: And if you do it that way, you know, then 514 00:31:46,716 --> 00:31:50,796 Speaker 3: it's it's I think you ought to be okay. And 515 00:31:50,836 --> 00:31:53,076 Speaker 3: then then the puzzle right as well. Gee, if it 516 00:31:53,196 --> 00:31:55,716 Speaker 3: could have been done that way, but just happened not 517 00:31:55,796 --> 00:31:57,396 Speaker 3: to be done that way, they did it in a 518 00:31:57,436 --> 00:32:00,876 Speaker 3: more direct way with the paperbag. What's the big deal? 519 00:32:01,556 --> 00:32:02,636 Speaker 3: It comes to the same thing. 520 00:32:03,756 --> 00:32:07,716 Speaker 1: You're missing one component though, which I'm curious will you 521 00:32:07,756 --> 00:32:09,596 Speaker 1: make of this? I would add a third if I 522 00:32:09,676 --> 00:32:12,836 Speaker 1: was him, I would say, and the goal of my 523 00:32:12,956 --> 00:32:17,876 Speaker 1: tennis camp is not to produce elite tennis players, but 524 00:32:17,996 --> 00:32:22,556 Speaker 1: to instill in the campers a love of the game 525 00:32:23,316 --> 00:32:26,876 Speaker 1: and to build character among those you know who have 526 00:32:26,996 --> 00:32:29,436 Speaker 1: chosen tennis's. I mean, if he does. 527 00:32:29,356 --> 00:32:33,796 Speaker 3: Much better at this than I am, I just that's right. 528 00:32:33,836 --> 00:32:35,436 Speaker 3: I think he'd want to get a lawyer, and the 529 00:32:35,516 --> 00:32:37,996 Speaker 3: lawyer would probably want to bring in a PR person 530 00:32:38,036 --> 00:32:39,076 Speaker 3: who can then answer. 531 00:32:39,076 --> 00:32:39,916 Speaker 6: But he just needs to. 532 00:32:39,836 --> 00:32:43,756 Speaker 1: Be frank about the fact he's not interested in turning 533 00:32:43,756 --> 00:32:44,676 Speaker 1: out Roger Federer. 534 00:32:44,836 --> 00:32:49,276 Speaker 3: That's not that's important to specify that, know your objectives. 535 00:32:49,356 --> 00:32:52,436 Speaker 3: That makes it even easier because then you bypassing people 536 00:32:52,436 --> 00:32:56,156 Speaker 3: who are maybe better tennis players, then becomes particularly unobjectionable. 537 00:32:56,236 --> 00:32:59,116 Speaker 1: In the evening, after we've hit backhands for two hours, 538 00:32:59,596 --> 00:33:03,516 Speaker 1: we'll sit and we'll discuss great works of legal philosophies, 539 00:33:03,556 --> 00:33:08,356 Speaker 1: such as books books written by Leo Katz. Yes, patron 540 00:33:08,476 --> 00:33:10,676 Speaker 1: sate of this particular arrangement. 541 00:33:11,316 --> 00:33:13,076 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes. 542 00:33:12,956 --> 00:33:16,716 Speaker 1: That would work. This is the hypothetical scenario that would 543 00:33:16,716 --> 00:33:20,636 Speaker 1: have saved Gordy Ernst and Aiman Curry a tennis camp. 544 00:33:20,996 --> 00:33:26,836 Speaker 1: But wait wait, Gody Ernst actually had a tennis camp. 545 00:33:27,316 --> 00:33:29,516 Speaker 1: You know, he has one he's running at the Georgetown 546 00:33:29,636 --> 00:33:32,996 Speaker 1: and the arrangement he has with the university is that 547 00:33:33,556 --> 00:33:39,356 Speaker 1: he was running it on university property during the summer 548 00:33:39,436 --> 00:33:41,076 Speaker 1: and he was allowed to keep one hundred percent of 549 00:33:41,116 --> 00:33:44,156 Speaker 1: the proceeds from the camp. That was so they had 550 00:33:44,236 --> 00:33:45,116 Speaker 1: signed off on that. 551 00:33:45,476 --> 00:33:48,476 Speaker 3: Wow, makes it particularly interesting. 552 00:33:48,596 --> 00:33:51,036 Speaker 1: And the other thing that's fascinating is that in all 553 00:33:51,076 --> 00:33:54,716 Speaker 1: aspects of the decisions about who to admit both to 554 00:33:55,316 --> 00:34:00,316 Speaker 1: his tennis squad but also his camp, he has discretion. 555 00:34:00,676 --> 00:34:04,076 Speaker 1: No one is the university is not interfering in a 556 00:34:04,116 --> 00:34:06,156 Speaker 1: substantial way without it of if he wants someone on 557 00:34:06,196 --> 00:34:09,196 Speaker 1: his tennis team and gets them on his tennis team, 558 00:34:09,316 --> 00:34:11,516 Speaker 1: and he definitely in his summer camp, he gets to 559 00:34:11,516 --> 00:34:16,516 Speaker 1: admit absolutely whoever he wants, so say, Gordy Ernst made 560 00:34:16,516 --> 00:34:19,156 Speaker 1: it clear that he wasn't actually trying to recruit great 561 00:34:19,156 --> 00:34:23,316 Speaker 1: tennis players. Then wouldn't the crime of letting someone on 562 00:34:23,356 --> 00:34:26,796 Speaker 1: the team who wasn't a great tennis player look less 563 00:34:26,796 --> 00:34:29,836 Speaker 1: and less like a crime. As I was talking to 564 00:34:29,916 --> 00:34:34,236 Speaker 1: Leo Katz, I suddenly remembered, Oh, there was an email 565 00:34:34,316 --> 00:34:36,956 Speaker 1: on this right in the middle of the Georgetown massacre. 566 00:34:37,556 --> 00:34:40,076 Speaker 1: It's about a big time Georgetown donor who was a 567 00:34:40,116 --> 00:34:42,356 Speaker 1: friend who is a kid who likes to play tennis. 568 00:34:43,036 --> 00:34:45,516 Speaker 1: Roy made a meal out of this one while examining 569 00:34:45,516 --> 00:34:46,196 Speaker 1: Brenda Smith. 570 00:34:47,236 --> 00:34:49,516 Speaker 4: And then it says his good friend in a well 571 00:34:49,556 --> 00:34:53,356 Speaker 4: positioned family. What does that mean? A well positioned family? 572 00:34:55,796 --> 00:35:00,636 Speaker 7: I think it means that the family has the potential 573 00:35:01,036 --> 00:35:05,276 Speaker 7: to be donors should they become involved with the university. 574 00:35:06,316 --> 00:35:08,476 Speaker 4: All right, And what they're saying here is that the 575 00:35:08,476 --> 00:35:10,636 Speaker 4: person wants to come to the campus and meet with 576 00:35:10,716 --> 00:35:11,476 Speaker 4: Gordon Ernst. 577 00:35:11,516 --> 00:35:15,476 Speaker 7: Correct, that's what it says. 578 00:35:15,796 --> 00:35:19,156 Speaker 4: You tell Gordy Earnst that, but if she he is 579 00:35:19,196 --> 00:35:23,356 Speaker 4: in the ballpark, it wouldn't hurt us. Now does that 580 00:35:23,436 --> 00:35:26,036 Speaker 4: mean that it wouldn't hurt us to recruit the person? 581 00:35:27,516 --> 00:35:31,836 Speaker 7: No, Gordy is asking me if I want him to 582 00:35:31,876 --> 00:35:35,036 Speaker 7: meet with the kid, and so I'm saying it wouldn't 583 00:35:35,276 --> 00:35:38,116 Speaker 7: hurt us if he met with him. 584 00:35:39,156 --> 00:35:42,956 Speaker 4: And what he responds to you another mediocre player? That 585 00:35:43,116 --> 00:35:45,276 Speaker 4: is my strike zone. What is he telling you there. 586 00:35:47,316 --> 00:35:51,636 Speaker 7: That his team is not a very well performing team? 587 00:35:52,996 --> 00:35:56,756 Speaker 1: Gordy, you idiot. You could have made all this go 588 00:35:56,836 --> 00:35:59,996 Speaker 1: away so easily. And that's what I have to imagine. 589 00:35:59,996 --> 00:36:02,636 Speaker 1: The Jerry is thinking, why are we going through all 590 00:36:02,676 --> 00:36:05,076 Speaker 1: this trouble, sitting here for the better part of two 591 00:36:05,156 --> 00:36:08,156 Speaker 1: weeks to stand in judgment of two people who are 592 00:36:08,196 --> 00:36:11,076 Speaker 1: just too stupid to conduct their business with the right 593 00:36:11,196 --> 00:36:16,396 Speaker 1: number of nudges and winks. The Georgetown massacre was when 594 00:36:16,436 --> 00:36:20,436 Speaker 1: the first cracks appeared in the government's case, and then 595 00:36:20,956 --> 00:36:24,356 Speaker 1: the whole thing goes south because right after Brenda Smith 596 00:36:24,516 --> 00:36:27,716 Speaker 1: is disemboweled on the stand, Howard and Roy call a 597 00:36:27,836 --> 00:36:31,676 Speaker 1: mystery witness, and the mystery witness has a very big 598 00:36:31,716 --> 00:36:37,036 Speaker 1: surprise for the prosecutors of the District of Massachusetts. That's 599 00:36:37,116 --> 00:36:38,996 Speaker 1: next week in part two. 600 00:36:40,836 --> 00:36:46,076 Speaker 6: In terms of poise and speaking, she had such authenticity. 601 00:36:46,556 --> 00:36:49,596 Speaker 6: She came across very well as a witness. 602 00:36:53,396 --> 00:36:56,156 Speaker 1: Regional's History is produced by Nina Bird Lawrence with Ben D. 603 00:36:56,276 --> 00:37:00,156 Speaker 1: F Haffrey and Lucy Sullivan. Our editor is Karen Schakerji. 604 00:37:00,516 --> 00:37:04,396 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Sam Russick. Original scoring by Luis Gerra, 605 00:37:04,836 --> 00:37:08,596 Speaker 1: mastering by Echo Mountain, Engineering by Sarah Buguer and Nina 606 00:37:08,596 --> 00:37:13,996 Speaker 1: Bird Lawrence. Production support from Luke LeMond. Our executive producer 607 00:37:14,116 --> 00:37:18,916 Speaker 1: is the incomparable Jacob Smith. Special thanks to Sarah Nix. 608 00:37:19,516 --> 00:37:22,396 Speaker 1: Voice acting by Dak Sheppard and Britt Marlin, who had 609 00:37:22,436 --> 00:37:25,196 Speaker 1: so much fun working together on our Little Mermaid episodes 610 00:37:25,236 --> 00:37:28,236 Speaker 1: a few seasons ago that they re upped for another 611 00:37:28,276 --> 00:37:32,476 Speaker 1: tour of duty. I'm Malcolm Lowell.