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Speaker 1: Question.

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Speaker 2: Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio Sad Depressed,

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Speaker 2: Getting Killed.

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Speaker 3: Virum So Suprimo, roll called So three Sun Sun Subrivo,

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Speaker 3: role called Supremo So So Suprivo ro called.

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Speaker 1: Subrivo as you can tell. Yeah, we got ll yeah

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Speaker 1: and for the first time in history. Yeah, my roll

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Speaker 1: call fell subrivo called so.

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Speaker 4: My name is Fante and my rhymes is vicious. But

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Speaker 4: I'll also say yeah, pudding is delicious.

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Speaker 1: Supprivo suprivo soun s brivo.

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Speaker 5: My name sugar. Yeah, I need a beat, Yeah like

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Speaker 5: Quincy Jones needs like.

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Speaker 1: His feet up here? Bill, Yeah, back for more, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Sugar Steve, Yeah, happy.

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Speaker 6: Port like yeah, more like Chris Robinson Yeah l L yeah, smoking.

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Speaker 7: L L Yeah, I say bless up. Yeah, I'm with

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Speaker 7: the tribe. This one's quest love.

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Speaker 1: So so so.

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Speaker 3: Supo Son Son sun Sel.

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Speaker 1: Damn like you speaking what rhymes with Robinson?

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Speaker 6: Smoking Son? Oh smoking.

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Speaker 1: Level.

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Speaker 7: We were both like, wait none rhymes and Robin we

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Speaker 7: started with smoking son and Robinson.

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Speaker 2: All right, okay, so look all right, all right. First

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Speaker 2: of all, yes, we're we're live and lost Ange. We're

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Speaker 2: taming Los Angeles with No No A C. But it's

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Speaker 2: all good.

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Speaker 7: Uh.

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Speaker 2: This is the Quest of Supreme podcast of course with

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Speaker 2: Fon Tickeelo, North Carolina's Finest Little Brother.

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Speaker 1: How's preparations going for for with Charlotte Dave Riley. What's

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Speaker 1: the Durham Durham made and Durham?

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Speaker 4: No, it's going well, man, It's just you know, we're

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Speaker 4: at the last kind of the stretch before we go,

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Speaker 4: so you know, you know how I go.

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Speaker 1: I mean a million to use the cross, you know.

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Speaker 1: I and you're organizing it too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, not by myself. Okay, we have a team, but

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Speaker 4: but me and Pool were overseeing it from tip to tip.

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Speaker 4: Headaches out the ass get But it's going well though, Sugar.

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Speaker 4: Steve House, how's life in jazz business? Everything's good. It's

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Speaker 4: nice to be here. They don't let me have them

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Speaker 4: Manhattan much, so it's good to get away.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Steven Weed free right now?

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Speaker 6: Bro?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's that. There's that too, So I may talk

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Speaker 5: more during this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I was about to say, you seem very clear

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Speaker 1: today for some reason.

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Speaker 5: Took a shower.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's that's good. You've been released from Sesame

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Speaker 2: Street prison. Yeah, where have you been at the Muppets?

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Speaker 2: Been holding you hostage.

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Speaker 1: Hostage. Yeah, I got negotiated out from Sesme Street and

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Speaker 1: I'm here.

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Speaker 5: I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: Really nothing not, everything's fine. No, no, I've been driving

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Speaker 1: my kids the volleyball. I was about to say, did

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Speaker 1: the strike even affect Sesame Street?

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Speaker 2: Not, that's that's what None of the muppets are unionized, No,

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Speaker 2: they all it's they're free from that, which is good.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's that's good to hear.

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Speaker 2: Well, as is this speaking of course, you know, we

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Speaker 2: resolve to strike and you know who like wants me

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Speaker 2: back at thirty Rock immediately like yeah, exactly, Like how's

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Speaker 2: it going?

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Speaker 6: I am going good? Now are we getting this week started?

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Speaker 1: I was about to say, how long did it take you?

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Speaker 1: Ritty and l story?

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Speaker 6: First of all, shout outs to call you got a

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Speaker 6: shout out to the people that make it happen that

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Speaker 6: it took months, but it was so worth it, of course.

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Speaker 6: But yes, it's the perfect way to start our adventure.

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Speaker 1: With a legend.

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Speaker 2: I've been having a what's what's the term a t

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Speaker 2: d T tet A tet uh with with a very

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Speaker 2: passionate I would say over zealous person in in in

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Speaker 2: the I g d ms about how we always disrespect Yeah, okay, so.

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Speaker 5: I it's not talking about her feet or anything like that.

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Speaker 2: Right, it's an l a callback it is anyway, all right.

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Speaker 2: So look, I'm gonna do this Stephen A. Smith's out

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Speaker 2: because I'm world famous for the intros or lack of

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Speaker 2: intros or the over enthusiastic intros. But I think that

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Speaker 2: it's important that our listeners understand why we should address

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Speaker 2: our guest today in terms of royalty without making him

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Speaker 2: cringe or whatever. So basically, I will say, in the

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Speaker 2: past seven years of doing this podcast, you know, we've

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Speaker 2: had presidents and musical pioneers and actors and sports figures

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Speaker 2: and whatnot. For out of nine Jackson's we've had on

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Speaker 2: the show, Wow, But this is probably the episode I've

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Speaker 2: been waiting for. I mean, from a guy that has

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Speaker 2: co authored a song about hip hop being the love

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Speaker 2: of his life, I will say that who better than.

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Speaker 1: To have what I deem?

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Speaker 2: Probably I call him a junior pioneer only because he's

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Speaker 2: the reason why my definition of the pioneer never gets

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Speaker 2: the glory. But it's the person that comes behind it

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Speaker 2: that improves on the pioneer. Literally, our guest today is

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Speaker 2: the reason why I think that because and I had

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Speaker 2: to write this part down basically, you know at nausea

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Speaker 2: that yeah, okay, Curtis Blow was the first goal selling

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Speaker 2: rapper on a major label, but our guest today has

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Speaker 2: improved on that twelvefold. And also he literally built the

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Speaker 2: deaf Jam empire. Without his success, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: there would have been budget or whatever for the Beast's

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Speaker 2: down to public and me down, you know, literally built

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Speaker 2: an empire. Not to mention literally so many firsts that

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Speaker 2: our guest has achieved. If you want to say, the

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Speaker 2: three minute rap song, the idea of course, the skit

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Speaker 2: emotions on Wax.

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Speaker 1: Whatever, true, I have my only pair of troops. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say.

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Speaker 2: Smith him the idea of pivoting to something else besides

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Speaker 2: wrapping the comeback the remix. Like literally I made a

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Speaker 2: list and it was like over twenty but I would

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Speaker 2: bore you all, and I know he's like, yo, I

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Speaker 2: can't wait to get the funk out of here. Lad,

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Speaker 2: please welcome James Stop Smith a l.

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Speaker 1: Cool day to Let's love Supreme, Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 2: You're also going to realize that the reason why we

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Speaker 2: really haven't had our first true conversation yet. Was I

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Speaker 2: was waiting for this play because I didn't want to like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, I didn't want to freak you out

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Speaker 2: by like nerding out on you because I will go

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Speaker 2: cuckoo for Coca puffs.

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Speaker 1: But no, just save it, save it, save it for

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Speaker 1: the podcast notes.

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Speaker 6: Every time he thought that, well, why y'all want to

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Speaker 6: every time he thought, I hope he took a note

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Speaker 6: like yet.

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Speaker 2: No, literally, he would come and out hide like I

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Speaker 2: don't want to because I don't want him think like

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Speaker 2: I'm ignoring him whatever, not return his phone calls. But

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Speaker 2: I'm also the kind of guy that wants to know

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Speaker 2: like twelve things about his career in a casual moment.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I've always scared off many an R.

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Speaker 2: That's hilarious that way. So on the road, yes, we did, yeah,

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Speaker 2: oh man. And not to mention, I'm I'm back from

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Speaker 2: camp cool Jay talk about yeah we got to hear

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Speaker 2: about it. I heard about it, but talk about it.

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Speaker 2: How the regiment put people tour. The tour was just

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Speaker 2: it was rigorous.

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Speaker 7: I mean, you know, quest worked so hard, man, I mean,

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Speaker 7: rehearsing forty hours a day, you know, twenty four hundred

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Speaker 7: hours a day just bringing artists in and bringing guests

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Speaker 7: in and fitting them into the set, and like on stage,

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Speaker 7: I would call him my general every night because he was,

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Speaker 7: you know, just working so hard and so tirelessly to

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Speaker 7: make it look effortless, you know what I'm saying, for

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Speaker 7: the audience, and to make it a show where everybody

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Speaker 7: could just come in and once they get in, they

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Speaker 7: once they stood up, they basically never sat down for

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Speaker 7: two three hours and didn't mit three four hours and

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Speaker 7: didn't miss a beat.

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Speaker 1: It was It was a lot of fun. It was dope.

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Speaker 1: We put up.

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Speaker 7: It worked. It worked. It works for real. We still

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Speaker 7: got a couple more, but it really was serious. Like,

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Speaker 7: so you did a great job on that, man, Like

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Speaker 7: it was amazing. It was amazing, all.

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Speaker 2: Right, So let me get to the nerd part. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So without the usual rigmund like where were you born?

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Speaker 1: On? Stuff?

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Speaker 2: I actually I want to know what was your life

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Speaker 2: like in nineteen eighty three, one year before you started

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Speaker 2: your journey to your path, Like what was typically happening

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Speaker 2: to you in eighty three.

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Speaker 1: By that point?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, So in eighty three, I was just running around

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Speaker 7: the city networking with you know, other MC's and DJs

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Speaker 7: and producers, and spending a lot of time in Harlem.

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Speaker 7: I would go up to like see my man Silver Fox.

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Speaker 7: He lived across He had a record store across from

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Speaker 7: Grant Projects. This guy named Julio Gina had a record

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Speaker 7: store on a label CCL Records, And I was I

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Speaker 7: spent a lot of time in Harlem at the record store,

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Speaker 7: just kind of holding my craft, talking to Fox about

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Speaker 7: cadences and couplets and stuff like that. Like you know,

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Speaker 7: me and Kouji Rapp would be like down at this

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Speaker 7: place called Joe Grant one hundred tienth Street and Harlem

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Speaker 7: rhyming together and you know what I'm saying, Me and

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Speaker 7: him and Fox and you know that.

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Speaker 1: So I basically spent a lot of time.

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Speaker 7: And then i'd be if I was in Queens, I

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Speaker 7: might be in like Herbie Lovebugs basement, you know what

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Speaker 7: I'm saying, Like when he was like just making beats

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Speaker 7: he had and he didn't have any records out or anything,

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Speaker 7: but he was down there, like so we'd be down

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Speaker 7: there and just hanging out.

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Speaker 1: And you were born in Queens, No, I was born

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Speaker 1: in Long Island.

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Speaker 7: I was born in base Show base Shore, Long Island,

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Speaker 7: and then you know, I would go back and forth

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Speaker 7: between Base Show, Long Island and Queens and then you know,

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Speaker 7: spent obviously most of my time in Queen's ultimately, but

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Speaker 7: for many years I went back and forth, you know

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Speaker 7: what I'm saying to school, So because we.

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Speaker 1: Always hear the folklore of hip hop and.

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Speaker 2: All the Bronx stories, the Bronx Monks, marks Monks, Bronks

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Speaker 2: and all these tapes, tapes, tapes, how is the rest

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Speaker 2: of the Burroughs getting spread of this creative pandemic?

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Speaker 7: Like yeah, yeah, so create That's a good way of

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Speaker 7: looking at it, right, So what happened actually is me

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Speaker 7: being in Long Island, I was in North Babylon. I

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Speaker 7: would go back and forth between North Babylon and Queens.

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Speaker 7: When I was in North babylin next door to me

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Speaker 7: was a bunch of foster kids, so a woman, a

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Speaker 7: couple of them of colors, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: They had like five or six forster kids like in

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Speaker 1: the house.

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Speaker 7: And they were from Brooklyn, the Bronx uptown like everywhere,

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Speaker 7: and a lot of them like my man Kenny from

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Speaker 7: Brooklyn and Wayne was from the Bronx and Reynard and

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Speaker 7: them were, you know, so I would hear all the

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Speaker 7: tapes my manor Eric Ward and all them.

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Speaker 1: They would play all of the tapes from the Bronx.

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Speaker 7: So I was exposed to hip hop from day one,

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Speaker 7: like I was exposed to like Flashing, the Furious Four

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Speaker 7: and the Foursome Seas way early, like before the records,

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Speaker 7: before Raptors, the Light, before all that.

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Speaker 1: I was already hearing everything that was going on in.

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Speaker 7: The city first before yeah, there was the Furious Four

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Speaker 7: before they were the Furious Five. Yes, yeah, So I

226
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Speaker 7: was you know, I was hearing all these records and

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Speaker 7: hearing the Cold Crush.

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Speaker 1: So I got into it real early.

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Speaker 7: So at like nine years old, I was already like

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Speaker 7: rhyming and trying to rhyme like those guys and trying

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Speaker 7: to make up rhymes and stuff like that. So by

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Speaker 7: the time I was eleven or twelve, I actually started writing,

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Speaker 7: you know, at eleven or twelve, I started really getting

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Speaker 7: into it. So that's why I was actually ready when

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Speaker 7: I was sixteen to start death jam because I had

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Speaker 7: already been doing it like like, you know, maybe eight

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Speaker 7: years at that point. You know, at sixteen, I had

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Speaker 7: already been in hip hop like eight years, like trying

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Speaker 7: to you know, get good at it.

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Speaker 1: Who was your north star in terms of like that's

241
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Speaker 1: the MCI.

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Speaker 7: Like it was a mix of all of them. It

243
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Speaker 7: was a mix of all of them for different reasons.

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Speaker 7: It was more like mixed martial arts than it was

245
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Speaker 7: like one style. It wasn't just karate. It was mixed

246
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Speaker 7: martial arts, you know what I'm saying. So it was

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Speaker 7: you know, and funny, you know, I actually picked that

248
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Speaker 7: up from Bruce Lee, you know what I'm saying, because

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Speaker 7: G Condo was like the first MMA, right, Like it

250
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Speaker 7: was the way of the intercepting fists and it was

251
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Speaker 7: all about taking all of these very styles and putting

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Speaker 7: them together. So that's why, like you know, early on

253
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Speaker 7: I was able to do stories, love records, hard records,

254
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Speaker 7: this and that.

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Speaker 1: That's why, like I can do any kind of song now.

256
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Speaker 7: So it's like, you know, it's like a guy on

257
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Speaker 7: a basketball court who could play defense, who could shoot,

258
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Speaker 7: who could go left, who can go right?

259
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Speaker 1: Who could do threes? Who could dunk?

260
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Speaker 7: Who could you know, like pride in myself and doing anything,

261
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Speaker 7: you know, avant garde records like anything. So and that

262
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Speaker 7: came from just listening to all of them, right, listening

263
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Speaker 7: to hearing Spoony and hearing Mail and you know, hearing Mo.

264
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Speaker 1: But then like in.

265
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Speaker 7: DLB for different reasons, like in Tito for a different reason,

266
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Speaker 7: like and pays for a different reason, like in JDL

267
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Speaker 7: because of what he does, like in Ad for certain

268
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Speaker 7: reasons like like a cast for other you know, like

269
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Speaker 7: it was all these different people Shah Rock for the

270
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Speaker 7: Echo Chamber and you know hearing like so it was

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Speaker 7: all of these different people that you know, just kind

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Speaker 7: of I just absorbed all of it, you know what

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Speaker 7: I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: Well, I gotta ask you now, did you ever in

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Speaker 2: your wildest dreams ever imagine that, like one of the

276
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Speaker 2: one of the pegs of the ladder of your whole story,

277
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Speaker 2: that you actually go toe to toe with one of

278
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Speaker 2: those pioneers like in the beginning.

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Speaker 7: Definitely not definitely not man, Listen, you talked about Modi, right, Like,

280
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Speaker 7: oh definitely not, of course, not like I love Mo.

281
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Speaker 1: You know, I still love Mo. But you know it's

282
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Speaker 1: like basketball right or boxing.

283
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Speaker 7: I mean, you know, de la Joya had to fight

284
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Speaker 7: Chavez like regardless, so you know that was just it

285
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 7: just came with the territory. But I didn't lose any

286
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Speaker 7: respect for him. I never lost respect for him. I

287
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,000
Speaker 7: never felt like personally insulted. Always took it as part

288
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Speaker 7: of the game.

289
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I see that.

290
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Speaker 2: So, I mean I've heard Ruben's side, I've talked to

291
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Speaker 2: ad of rock like them might be in NYU whatever.

292
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Speaker 2: So first of all, how did you even have And

293
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Speaker 2: we heard the story about like your grandfather getting you.

294
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Speaker 1: What equipment did he get you? Exactly? You got me too.

295
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,560
Speaker 1: I wanted techniques, but you know my grandfather, you know

296
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Speaker 1: I wanted technique.

297
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Speaker 7: You know you're getting to Sheba's, right, Yeah, I got

298
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,520
Speaker 7: I got to to Sheba's and I wanted I wanted

299
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,200
Speaker 7: the Gemini he got me a uh.

300
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Speaker 1: It wasn't a new Mark, I forget the name of it,

301
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 1: but it was a different one.

302
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,080
Speaker 7: It had a crossfader and a a and a turn

303
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,000
Speaker 7: on it, and it didn't have a slide fada, had

304
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,640
Speaker 7: a turn knob on it. But yeah, so I had

305
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 7: the mixer so you can dj oh yeah, okay, oh yeah,

306
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:30,160
Speaker 7: oh yeah.

307
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

308
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Speaker 7: I started off that way because see my grandfather, he

309
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Speaker 7: was a jazz musician and He used to take me

310
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Speaker 7: in the basement when I was laby six five sixty

311
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,920
Speaker 7: seven and record me like doing little jazz things, and

312
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Speaker 7: he would like mess with stuff, and he had like

313
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Speaker 7: a reel of reel and I'd be down there doing little.

314
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Speaker 1: Jazz stuff and all that, you know what I'm saying.

315
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Speaker 7: So I came up listening to like Jimmy Smith at

316
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Speaker 7: the Penthouse and you know, all of these.

317
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Speaker 1: But then I'd be listening to Smothers brothers, like Comedy records.

318
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Speaker 7: But then I'm listening to like So I I got

319
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Speaker 7: exposed to a lot of different kinds of music, whether

320
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Speaker 7: it was Miles or Charles, Charlie Parker or bird or

321
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,560
Speaker 7: Birdland stuff and Ella Fitzgerald and Duke Ellington all this

322
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,040
Speaker 7: stuff count Basi records, so I got and it was

323
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:13,600
Speaker 7: a lot of big band too, So it wasn't just

324
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Speaker 7: the normal jazz. It was a lot of big band jazz.

325
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Speaker 7: But I say that to say that's where I kind

326
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,520
Speaker 7: of got into it, you know what I'm saying. And

327
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Speaker 7: then I ended up getting the equipment because I fell

328
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:24,880
Speaker 7: in love with it. Because I got hit on a

329
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Speaker 7: mini bike and my grandfather wanted to keep me in

330
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Speaker 7: the house, and it was a choice either money.

331
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Speaker 1: No, No, it was settled.

332
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Speaker 7: They were just trying to keep me in the house

333
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,280
Speaker 7: because you know, we used to have a mini bikes

334
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,400
Speaker 7: and all that with the you know, with the with

335
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 7: the shoelace tied to the throttle with no brakes on it,

336
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 7: just running around the block. And I got hit on

337
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,240
Speaker 7: one of them joints, and then you know, they was

338
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 7: like my grandmother was going crazy and the neighborhood's talking.

339
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,720
Speaker 7: That was like headline news. And then so he got

340
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Speaker 7: me some equipment to keep me in the house.

341
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Speaker 6: Because its household.

342
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 1: No, no, did they know what hip I was to be?

343
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Speaker 8: Like?

344
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,119
Speaker 7: No, well, well, the only resistance came later when I

345
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,680
Speaker 7: started becoming professional, because my grandmother didn't really believe that

346
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 7: it was real and she wanted me to stay in school.

347
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,520
Speaker 7: And my mother secretly had made a pet with her

348
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 7: that she would let me stay out of school for

349
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 7: two years because remember I dropped out in the ninth

350
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,920
Speaker 7: grade the store. When Radio came out, I was sixteen seventeen.

351
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,159
Speaker 7: When when it dropped the single, when the when I

352
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,320
Speaker 7: Need a B came I was sixteen Radio I was

353
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Speaker 7: turning seventeen.

354
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Speaker 1: I was around seventeen, because.

355
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Speaker 7: You had a deal that you would secret No, my

356
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,560
Speaker 7: mother had a secret deal that she would let me

357
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Speaker 7: stay out of school and pursue my dreams for two years,

358
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,159
Speaker 7: and if it didn't work out, she would make me

359
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,280
Speaker 7: go back to school. Because I asked her, I'm like,

360
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,160
Speaker 7: why did you let me do that? And she said,

361
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,000
Speaker 7: because you were really, really passionate about it. And I

362
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:52,440
Speaker 7: knew you were young enough to be able to go

363
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,560
Speaker 7: back to school, So that that was a she took

364
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Speaker 7: that shot.

365
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Speaker 1: I'm glad she did. That's I'm glad she did.

366
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 5: Curious about your grandfather, what instrument did he play?

367
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,280
Speaker 1: Tenor saxophone? Played the tennis sacks?

368
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,200
Speaker 7: And so I used to, you know, grow up and

369
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 7: just change learning how to change the reads and how

370
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,879
Speaker 7: to clean it, and you know, mess around with it

371
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,640
Speaker 7: stuff like that. Well you would play sax I would

372
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,920
Speaker 7: mess around with it, but nothing of any consequence. I

373
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 7: mean I used to mess around with it, but nothing.

374
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 7: You can at least play like love roller coaster. You know,

375
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,160
Speaker 7: you know, you know, nothing, nothing of any real consequence.

376
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,000
Speaker 7: But I but I did grow up around a lot

377
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,080
Speaker 7: of instruments. He would buy me guitars. I would break

378
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,760
Speaker 7: them and pop the strings and stuff like that, And

379
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 7: it was just he had a love for music, and

380
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,399
Speaker 7: my grandmother loved music, and my mother wrote poetry, you

381
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,280
Speaker 7: know what I'm saying, so you know, and play the

382
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 7: the accordion and you know, you know what I'm saying.

383
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:54,560
Speaker 1: So we don't understand, like this makes sense exactly?

384
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 2: How did you even haven't wherewithal to know that? Let

385
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 2: me hand deliver these tapes. First of all, what's on

386
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 2: the tapes? Are you just like freestyling and piece to

387
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 2: president or like no?

388
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 1: Now?

389
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,359
Speaker 7: So I was about to quit because I couldn't get

390
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,919
Speaker 7: any make any headway because labels. A lot of labels

391
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 7: were turning me down. Well it wasn't that many, but

392
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:21,919
Speaker 7: it was the first label you went to. I sent

393
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,200
Speaker 7: something to sugar Hill. I tried to get on sugar Hill.

394
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,159
Speaker 7: And when I started trying to get on sugar Hill,

395
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 7: I was probably like fourteen, maybe thirteen.

396
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 1: Do they know this? Now? They do now, you know?

397
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 7: And so when I was like thirteen fourteen, I started

398
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,479
Speaker 7: sending demos to sugar Hill trying to get on them.

399
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 1: They responded, though they were polite.

400
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,159
Speaker 7: They said, you know, we just want to inform you

401
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 7: that we're not interested in your material at this you know,

402
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,359
Speaker 7: it was a standard letter, so it was cool. And

403
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,920
Speaker 7: then after that, I was about to quit because I

404
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,360
Speaker 7: had been trying since I was like fourteen years old

405
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,360
Speaker 7: and it had been two years and now I'm sixteen

406
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,159
Speaker 7: and I'm about to quit because I'm like, you know,

407
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,879
Speaker 7: it's just I'm not making any headway. And I had

408
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 7: made a decision to go pro and be a professional

409
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,640
Speaker 7: recording artist. And so my mother, you know, she found

410
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 7: one of the letters. I had balled it up and

411
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 7: threw it in my room and she walked in and

412
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 7: found it somehow and was reading it. And then she

413
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,680
Speaker 7: came over and she was like giving me hug because

414
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 7: I was depressed. She's like, what's wrong, b blah blah

415
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 7: blah blah. I'm like, nah, you know, you know I

416
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,920
Speaker 7: can't you know, I don't have no equipment. I can't

417
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 7: make a good demo this and that. So she said, well,

418
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 7: what do you need? And I told her I need

419
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 7: a drum machine so I can this and that I

420
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,399
Speaker 7: need to beat. Yeah, I need to be exactly. And

421
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 7: that was the demo. So I went out and I

422
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,199
Speaker 7: did a demo. She bought me a call drum machine,

423
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 7: and I went to my man spin Master Fanessa's house

424
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 7: in his basement and we played it manually because we

425
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 7: didn't wait to want to wait to learn how to

426
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,439
Speaker 7: program it. So we just played everything manually and did

427
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,679
Speaker 7: a pause tape over dub and I made I need

428
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 7: a beat the demo? What yeah, yeah, I made I

429
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 7: need to beat the demo. But he didn't even know

430
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 7: a sequence it nah. Nah, I just did it by hand.

431
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 7: And then once I did it by hand, by feel,

432
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 7: then I went back and rhymed to what I did

433
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,160
Speaker 7: by hand. And then I went back and my man

434
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 7: did some scratching on it, and I went back. I

435
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 7: just did it that way, you know what I'm saying.

436
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 7: And then I sent that in and uh, the rest

437
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 7: is history. So ad Rock heard it. Ad Rock heard it.

438
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 7: Then he took it. Obviously they had the real drum machines,

439
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,400
Speaker 7: you know, that took it to another level.

440
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: Took it. Was a similar beat, but he took it

441
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,719
Speaker 1: to a whole other level. Him and Rick and you know, well,

442
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 1: number one, do you still have those rejection letters? I

443
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 1: probably do in my house, in my grandmother's house somewhere.

444
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 7: Yes, I would say yes, yes, I would say, I

445
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 7: would say, yes, okay, yeah.

446
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: I got them.

447
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 5: What about that demo? Did that ever come out?

448
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 7: It's around, It's around because that's you know, it's funny.

449
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 7: That's where where they got dropped, like you know and

450
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 7: all that.

451
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, because I did all that on my demo.

452
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, yeah. So when the Beastie Boys did that,

453
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 7: all that those little some of those little lines they

454
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 7: did a lot of that was you know, based on

455
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 7: the demo.

456
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 1: You know, I'm saying, wait, while and while.

457
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 2: I'm remembering this, Okay, so during the Grammy fifty celebration,

458
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 2: I overheard this is what really made me run out

459
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 2: the room because I didn't want to hear the story.

460
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 2: Can you please tell them the story? And I'm skipping

461
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 2: a little bit ahead. Tell me the story of how

462
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 2: you named Chun King Studios. Oh so Chun King So wait,

463
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 2: just that alone, like heed, yeah, So.

464
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 7: Chun King obviously was owned by John King, right, so,

465
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 7: but it was in Chinatown and I can never remember

466
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 7: his name, and I'm like, so we just started calling

467
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,719
Speaker 7: it Chun King because it's a Chinatown and we used

468
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 7: to get all the good Chinese food around there. We

469
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 7: loved it, so I started calling the Chun King studios.

470
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 7: I'm like, Yo, we're going to Chunk King. We're going

471
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 7: to Chunk King. And one thing led to another, and

472
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 7: John just named the studio Chunk King, and they just, yeah,

473
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 7: it became it became Chunk King because we just, you know,

474
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 7: we used to get Chinese food around there all the time.

475
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: You know, it could have been that, you know what

476
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: I'm saying.

477
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 2: It could have been that, like when you get a

478
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 2: call back from them, is this an instant Okay, let's

479
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: make it happen, or like, are you going through the

480
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 2: regular process of what the artist goes through.

481
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 7: I used to first of all, after I sent him

482
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 7: the demo, I would call Rick every single day for

483
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 7: like two weeks to ask him if he got the

484
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 7: demo yet, And sometimes he would answer, sometimes he wont

485
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 7: he wouldn't, but I'll be like, Yo, Rick, you get

486
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 7: the demo yet? Nope, didn't get it yet. Okay, you're Rick,

487
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 7: you get the demo. I used to call him every

488
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 7: day following up, like for like for like two weeks.

489
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 7: Then when when he finally called me, called my grandmother.

490
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 1: I came in the house.

491
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 7: My grandmother told me some Rick calls I'm like going crazy.

492
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 7: So you know, I called him from my kitchen. He

493
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 7: called me, yo, he said, Yo, come down. I said this,

494
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 7: He said, what's up? I said, Yo, what's up? Man?

495
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 7: He said, Yo, come down. We're gonna make it, make

496
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 7: a demo, make a record, blah blah blah. So I'm

497
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 7: going crazy. And then I went down there and I

498
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 7: made the first the demo. This first demo was called

499
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 7: catch this Break and if you're looking for Jenna and

500
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 7: make you ate by this record and catch this break, right,

501
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 7: And so I took that, We took that, and he

502
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 7: took that to Russell. So Russell was like, ah, it's

503
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 7: the same old thing. It's the same old thing. By

504
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 7: bye bye bye. So me and Rick went back in

505
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 7: the studio and that's when he revisited the demo and

506
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 7: we made I Need a Beat, and then we made

507
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 7: I Need a Beat and that song just kind of

508
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 7: they decided because what was happening was Deaf Jam Productions

509
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 7: was having problems collecting their money from Party Time street Wise,

510
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 7: the label that they were being distributed by, right that

511
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 7: I don't know, but that was what Tela Rockets Yours

512
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 7: was was Deaf Jam Productions.

513
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: It was on Street Time Party it was on Party

514
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 1: Time street Wise. That was the label, and so.

515
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 7: And so they were having the problems collecting the do

516
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 7: so they ended up making death Jam independent or turning

517
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 7: Death Jam into a label because it was a production company.

518
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 7: Then it became a record label with no distribution, and

519
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 7: we made our need a beat, and then we made

520
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 7: another song. I made my first couple of songs with

521
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 7: no contract, okay, because I you know, I didn't want.

522
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: Like like nothing was stopping me. Like, we'll get to that.

523
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: It's it's it's called pressing up the records and putting

524
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: them out. We did. We sold. Okay.

525
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 2: If I'm a budding yard artist and I want to

526
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 2: put out my own joint, how much is that gonna

527
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 2: run me?

528
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: It is damnly impossible. It was.

529
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 7: It was just like it was almost impossible because if

530
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 7: they were, there are too many other hoops to climb through.

531
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 7: At that time, there was no First of all, you

532
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 7: got to remember there was no access to information. You

533
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 7: don't even have the access to the information to know

534
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 7: how to go about figuring out how to make a record.

535
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: Like then you talk about they know or are you

536
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: there a guinea pig?

537
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 7: Well, they knew to a certain extent because remember Russell

538
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 7: had been dealing with Curtis, he managed.

539
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: He hadn't had any you know stuff, but he had

540
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: managed his groups running them.

541
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 7: Had I think maybe one album at that point, right,

542
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 7: you know, or well, yeah they have one album. They knew,

543
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 7: but they I was a guinea pig in the sense

544
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 7: of being the first artist on the label for sure,

545
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 7: Like they didn't never had ran a label like that before.

546
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: We didn't. You know, nobody knew what we would.

547
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying in terms of like knowing that,

548
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: so there's four stores in Philly that I need to

549
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 2: put this in armnds.

550
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, No. They did a good job with that.

551
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: We did a good job.

552
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 7: I mean, I need to Beat came out, and you know,

553
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 7: we ended up selling, you know, fifty one hundred thousand

554
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 7: records independently, and then we put Dangerous out and sold

555
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 7: a little less, but did okay.

556
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: Creatively, when when you're making these songs, do you explain

557
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: the process of how you and Rick are creating me songs?

558
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: Like is he just like making a beat and you're like,

559
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 1: I like that part and not that part. It's exactly

560
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: what it is. Was, you know, pretty much through all

561
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: of my music.

562
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 7: But with Rick, what we would do is I would

563
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 7: give him the basics of what I wanted to do,

564
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 7: like the foundation, rather of what I wanted to do.

565
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 7: I'd say, oh, I want to beat like this. I

566
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 7: would hum a beat or a mouth a beat, you know,

567
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 7: or something like that.

568
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: Right, he would go. He would he would take that

569
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: as the foundation. Then I would rhyme to it.

570
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 7: I would you know, if I had most of the

571
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 7: time I had rhymes already written, sometimes I would write

572
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 7: to it.

573
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I'd write to it. I

574
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: do that.

575
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 7: Then Rick would go in the studio by hisself and

576
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 7: play with a lot of different overdub ideas. He would

577
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 7: go in and put surprises on it. He'd find guitar bits,

578
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 7: you find horns. He plays stuff for me. I'd be like,

579
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 7: I don't know about that part. I like that part,

580
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 7: and he'd be like, okay, well what do you think

581
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 7: about this part? I say, I like that, and he

582
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 7: would go back. Nearly a collaboration.

583
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 4: It was very much If you talk about that when

584
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 4: you gave your speech, Yeah, when you got your I

585
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 4: think it was a lifetime achievement.

586
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: Award.

587
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 4: It was Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, right, And

588
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 4: you talked about like collaboration. Definitely, work with your producers, definitely, all.

589
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 7: Of them, always, always, because you know, we change each

590
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 7: other when we work together, right, So it's not just

591
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 7: add water, it's but I like to leave room for

592
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 7: the producer to do what they do, don't.

593
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: I'm not a believer in bullying producers.

594
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 7: A lot of people, as they get established, they put

595
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 7: more and more pressure on the producers, and they bully

596
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 7: the producers into a corner where they can't be free

597
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 7: to create.

598
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: And I learned early on working with Rick to just

599
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: let the.

600
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 7: Producer do what they do and give them opportunity and

601
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 7: then see what it is and then work from that space,

602
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 7: you know what I mean. So I always approached it

603
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 7: from a place of humility when it comes to creating,

604
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 7: all right.

605
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: So the thing that I really want to know is

606
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 2: and notwithstanding and I mentioned at the top that yes, okay,

607
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 2: so full force comes in and does something unprecedent before,

608
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: and they turn like the nine minute song, the ten

609
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 2: minute song into like a four minute song. So who

610
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: knew between the two of you the art of editing,

611
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: Because even on the album credits, right, it says reduced

612
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: by Rick Ruth. Yeah, so was it weird to you

613
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 2: writing just sixteen bars and now you got to have

614
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 2: a hook and another sixteen bars, because you know, before

615
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,959
Speaker 2: you rappers just rap for it forever.

616
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 7: It wasn't weird to me because I loved Rick James,

617
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 7: and I loved you know, Michael Jackson and Lonald Ritchie

618
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 7: and the Commodorees and the OJ's, and all of them

619
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 7: had choruses and all of them had songs and it

620
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 7: was arrangements. So I was very comfortable with the idea

621
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 7: of making songs, you know, and I knew the difference

622
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 7: between you know, I knew what I was doing. I

623
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 7: was very conscious when I would do a song that

624
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 7: was a song or when I'd just be doing a

625
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 7: thing where I'm rhyming, and I always understood the difference,

626
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 7: but without.

627
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: The standard of knowing like, oh, I need a hook

628
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: so this audience gets me, or no, how do you know?

629
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: You follow the light? You follow the light. You know

630
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. You just get out of the way

631
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: and follow the light.

632
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 7: So you know, when you're making music and when you're

633
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 7: creating something, you know, everything is now it's science and art, right,

634
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 7: it's ourn and science and his soul land science right,

635
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 7: and you have to remember both. And there's a time

636
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 7: to get out of the way. There's a time for science,

637
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 7: and then there's a time to just follow the light.

638
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 7: And so, you know, with a lot of those songs,

639
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 7: it just felt like that's right, that's it, you know

640
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 7: what I'm saying, Like you know, I mean even years later,

641
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 7: I mean Rick Rubin was like, you know, he was

642
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 7: ready to jump off a roof about I need love,

643
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 7: you know really, but yeah, but I but I wanted

644
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 7: to follow the light.

645
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: You're like, you're like that much put it out first.

646
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: He hated it. He thought it was crazy.

647
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 7: But well, it's a very soft record, I mean emotional,

648
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 7: it's vulnerable. It's like the exact opposite. It's the antithesis

649
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 7: of rock the bells, it's the antithesis of some of

650
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 7: the other songs I've had done.

651
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: So it was very different, you know.

652
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 7: And but my thing was range and doing different stuff

653
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 7: and following the light and trusting that.

654
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: But the thing was like we really weren't stopped because

655
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 2: you did. I can give you more and I want you,

656
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: which we're leaning towards that.

657
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's the it's the execution, you know, it's not

658
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 7: just the idea, it's the execution. So the execution was

659
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 7: a lot more romantic, a lot softer, a lot more gentle.

660
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 7: I could give you more, you.

661
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:10,959
Speaker 6: Know what I mean?

662
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: I want you because I want you originally was over

663
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: in between the sheets.

664
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 7: You were thinking of sampling back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I

665
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 7: wrote that.

666
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: To in between the sheets.

667
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 7: Ship m okay, okay, you know, and if you listen

668
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 7: to it, if you put I want you vocals over

669
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 7: in between the sheets, would have it would have been

670
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 7: like it would have been crazy Jesus Christ.

671
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 6: Like after I did successive, I Need Love. I'm so

672
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 6: curious about everybody else's revelation because you already knew.

673
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: How the depth GM field when they first heard it.

674
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was Yeah, it was a

675
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 7: great You had to sell it on.

676
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 6: In the room.

677
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 7: It just was like, you know, context is everything, right,

678
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 7: So it's kind of like it's like seeing a basketball

679
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 7: player after they've been wearing them tidy white forever and

680
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 7: then the basketball player walks out.

681
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: With the long shorts. It's like, yeah, what's that, you know,

682
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: So it was just like very new. It was just new.

683
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 7: It was.

684
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: On you know, besides Faith knew men. There was no

685
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: women in the room at that time. I don't even

686
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: know if Faith was there yet. I don't even think

687
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: Faith was there yet.

688
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 7: It was more like Heidi Smith secretary, you know what

689
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 7: I'm saying, like the receptionist. You know, they were growing,

690
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 7: we were still we were still very new at that point.

691
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 7: Because that was like I had only I was only

692
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 7: one album. Men and Rick and Russell were gonna going

693
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 7: through some things.

694
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 6: But but radio must have been radio then, not the song,

695
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 6: but actual radio that made I need.

696
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: Oh No Exploded Exploded. Exploded. Exploded was one of the

697
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: first rap songs I remember hearing on you No Exploded.

698
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: That was one of the first rap songs I played

699
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: GERI Exploded. So the way the way that records, that's hilarious.

700
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: The way that records work is that you would have

701
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: to put it out three months ahead of time.

702
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: All Right is conk created real named Brian, Yeah j

703
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: brother Philip. All Right.

704
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 2: So I went to school with Creator's cousin, so he

705
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: would always come in with almost damn near demo quality stuff.

706
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: I heard like you can't dance. I heard like all

707
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: this stuff on. He bringing a cassette whatever. He was

708
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: like the popular kid in school, so he had a

709
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: copy a bigger endepthor and I begged him again five

710
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: bucks to double the join for me. When I heard

711
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: I Need Love, I was like, yo, man.

712
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 6: Zoom.

713
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, first verse read it was all good was number

714
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: one for like month. That's hilarious for the first two months. Boy,

715
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: I was the man.

716
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 4: It's just surprised to me that that record that they

717
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 4: didn't get it, because especially like with Russell, because what

718
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 4: he was doing with you know.

719
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: Well, I think ob R.

720
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 4: I don't know if that was around the time that

721
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 4: seemed to be alone in his wheelhouse of like the

722
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 4: kind of R and B, you know, BR the.

723
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: Original recordings, but that was magic and I got you Yeah,

724
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: yeah that was later. That was later.

725
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 7: That's when he got Rush associated labels and yeah, that

726
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 7: was later.

727
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: I thought they would have been right down his lane though. Yeah,

728
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: I mean he was, he was with it, Russell was

729
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: with it.

730
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 7: But you know, you know, like you'd be surprised, man,

731
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 7: like how many songs I have like that, Like there

732
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 7: are a lot of songs around the way. Girl. They

733
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 7: wanted to give up on wait what Yeah, because it

734
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 7: was slow at radios. Radio was like resisting it because

735
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 7: it was new doing it. They didn't want to.

736
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: They was unsure about like Brenda's got a big old

737
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah.

738
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 6: They like that.

739
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah they did actually.

740
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,439
Speaker 2: You know, so it is crazy because like I would

741
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: think as an n R, there weren't no who I

742
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 2: was gonna say, were you your on n R?

743
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was no an R.

744
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 7: You gotta remember we you know at that time, you

745
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 7: know in hip hop, there weren't no managers. I mean,

746
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 7: Russell was the only guy that was even in that space,

747
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 7: and that he got in that space later. So when

748
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 7: when I first started, there were really no managers. He

749
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 7: was a promoter, there were there was no an R.

750
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 7: There was no industry. There was no hip hop industry.

751
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 7: So so they you know, it's a it's a completely

752
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 7: different type of mindset. Nobody knows anything now. Every you know,

753
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 7: now it's like everybody can kind of come off like

754
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 7: a genius because they know, you know, they got this

755
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 7: Monday morning quarterbacking and everybody's Mogo and all this history.

756
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was no industry, so you know, it's like

757
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: no America. You know, it's just like you know what

758
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: I mean.

759
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 7: It's it's like Woods, you know, it's very different like

760
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 7: at that point, you know, you know, now we're like infrastructure.

761
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 6: Was just that's not a thing. No more like your

762
00:35:58,680 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 6: favorite producer or.

763
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 7: Well he it wasn't. Yeah, yeah, no it's not. It

764
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 7: was you know, he wasn't even known like that, you

765
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 7: know what I'm saying.

766
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: So it wasn't he was.

767
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: He wasn't known. It was he had one song with

768
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: Tela Rock. This is a question I've been dying, dying

769
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: to know. Okay, so it was eighty five and Rick Rubins,

770
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: your producer. A year later, Rick Rubin's gonna helm the

771
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: Raisin Hell record. So all right, just for my satisfaction,

772
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: at any point while making the song rock the bells,

773
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 2: did you ever think to use Bob James's Take Me

774
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 2: to the Mardi Gras well the actual bells on it.

775
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 7: I mean, that's really I've kind of got into this

776
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 7: before with the story, but the reality is that was

777
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 7: what the song was.

778
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,919
Speaker 1: Noway, no, it was take Me to the Mardi Gras.

779
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 7: I wrote it to that, and Rick, me and Rick

780
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 7: planned on doing it and then Rick did Peter Piper

781
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 7: and I'm like, yo.

782
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: Way, why didn't you win the tug of war Matt.

783
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 7: Between Peter because Run DMC had a gold album. They

784
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 7: were coming off of two albums. Two albums at that point, right,

785
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 7: like maybe yeah, it was two albums and it was

786
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 7: just a no no to no no. What it was

787
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 7: was It's like it's kind of hard to like, look,

788
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 7: Jay is from my neighborhood, like running them from my neighborhood.

789
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: We all know, take me to the Mardi Gras. I

790
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: can't really argue that, like they don't know what it is.

791
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 7: I just had plans for it, and when Rick, I guess,

792
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 7: you know, decided to you know, do that with them,

793
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 7: and one thing led to another and they ended up

794
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 7: with Peter Piper. But that's why I made two Rock

795
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 7: the Bells, because that's why I made the original and

796
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 7: didn't like it because it wasn't what I wanted, and

797
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 7: then made the second one because I was changing Almos

798
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 7: the B side. The original was never gonna happen because

799
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 7: I was gonna do it to Marti Gras. I got

800
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:48,959
Speaker 7: it so once I didn't do it to Mardi Gras,

801
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 7: I went in and we had to figure out another

802
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 7: one I did. Originally I didn't like it, and I

803
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 7: was like, this ain't good enough because I wanted Marti Gras.

804
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 7: So then we made another song, the second one that

805
00:37:58,840 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 7: everybody cuts up.

806
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: How long did it take you to finally settle on

807
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: the Trouble Funk Go Go version.

808
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 7: It didn't take long. It kind of came together that,

809
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 7: you know, God had other plans. They came together, well,

810
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 7: they came together.

811
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: It was all good. You know what I'm saying. You

812
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I loved Listen, I loved I

813
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: was just talking to somebody about that the other day.

814
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: I love Go Go.

815
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 7: Like when when Chuck Brown and the Soul searches that

816
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 7: I'm bad over, I was like, Yo, that was crazy.

817
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 7: I love EU, you know, junk Yard, you know what

818
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 7: I'm saying, like Chuck, all of them, Like I loved

819
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 7: the the Go Go scene, So that was always influencing

820
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 7: a lot of what we did too, you know what

821
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 7: I'm saying rhythmically.

822
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: So okay, you.

823
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 2: In all the first that I mentioned. You know, I'll

824
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 2: also say that what's different about your success is.

825
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: That unlike.

826
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 2: Other pioneers, Sam Cook, Ray Charles James Brown, who kind

827
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: of had to watch the and I'll say the alternative

828
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: versions themselves blow up. I either Elvis syndrome, where like

829
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 2: you really became like the first solo teen idol. I mean,

830
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 2: you just got to experience stuff that neither Spooning nor

831
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: Curtis blowing them.

832
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: Got so in eighty five, as this thing is clearly

833
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: going to be like.

834
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 2: Important, what is stardom on that level like that none

835
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 2: of your peers in hip hop or experience maybe an

836
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 2: occasional run DMC will know it.

837
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: But I think it's different when you're singular. So what

838
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: is that like?

839
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 2: Because I know by this point, because the thing is

840
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: like you have a cool factor, a danger you know,

841
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 2: I think rappers a danger of factor, a cool factor.

842
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: And all the things. Yeah, and all that stuff.

843
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:55,479
Speaker 2: So I know that people are trying to insucubist manner

844
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 2: like like just pull from your energy and so hey,

845
00:39:58,320 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 2: come hang with us, come party with us too.

846
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: You wanted to what is it like in eighty five

847
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: doing what.

848
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: I would consider the most not the botchers, but right

849
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 2: that period of a lot of the botchery.

850
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 7: So you know, it was two things. It was like

851
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 7: when I'm on toring them on the road, like you know,

852
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 7: if I go to a sneaker stores, like crowds of

853
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 7: kids outside, you know what I'm saying, and you know,

854
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 7: banging on a limo and chasing the limo, and I doubt.

855
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 1: How long did it take for you to like, oh,

856
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: I can't be normal anymore? Oh no, eighty five? That

857
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: was pretty much the beginner. Yeah yeah, or.

858
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 7: On like no hat, no glass, It doesn't matter. They

859
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 7: know it's okay, yeah, okay, it was okay.

860
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

861
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, So they knew, they knew, and so it was

862
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 7: that and then you know the other side was, you know,

863
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 7: just I was in Harlem a lot when I was home,

864
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 7: hanging out with you know, you know, all the guys

865
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 7: that ultimately became the Payton Full movie. So so you know,

866
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 7: it was like, yeah, you knew those dudes. Oh no,

867
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 7: that was who I hung out with every day. I

868
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 7: hung out with, you know, my man Chuck and Rich

869
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 7: and I'll poem a Z. And that was where I

870
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 7: kind of as a young man, those are the guys

871
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 7: that were around me. They kind of like took me

872
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 7: in and I had you know, I got rocked the

873
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 7: bells out and running around and Harlem with them all

874
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 7: the time whenever I'm home. And then I go on

875
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 7: the road and do my shows and stuff like that,

876
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 7: and that's where, you know, so I started getting the

877
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 7: big cool j rings and the ice and the jewelry

878
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 7: and the firs and that, and all the cars and

879
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 7: the benches and all that. I was bringing all of.

880
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: That hustler stuff to hip hop because that's who I

881
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: was hanging out with.

882
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 7: You were more Harlem home based than at that point. Yeah,

883
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 7: I'm always Queens forever. I'm an always be a Queen's

884
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 7: God Queen's by all means. That being said, I did

885
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 7: hang a lot, you know, I formulated a lot of

886
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 7: my you know that energy. I learned a lot in Harlem.

887
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: So when when Queens is going through their first you know,

888
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: for an outsider like me hearing the the Shan versus

889
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:06,399
Speaker 2: BDP war thing like which, now I clearly understand what's happened,

890
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: you know, Shan's Like, I didn't say that hip hop

891
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: started in queens or whatever. But do you feel some

892
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 2: sort of way on the sidelines watching someone kind of

893
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 2: go at queens when Queens had nothing to do with

894
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 2: the battle or whatever, Like, did you feel at any

895
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 2: point like let me step in.

896
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 7: And no, because you know, you know, to be honest

897
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 7: with you, you know, especially you know the mindset I

898
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 7: had back then.

899
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: He was smart to put my name in it and

900
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: be complimentary on South Pronks. I totally forgot trying to

901
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:37,959
Speaker 1: take I didn't even think.

902
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 7: About that, so so he you know, that was smart,

903
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 7: you know, especially the way I was built my mindset,

904
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 7: like it was best that that was.

905
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: The right approach that kept me.

906
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 7: So you did sort of feel like, hey, yeah, but

907
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 7: it was but I was I was cool because, you know,

908
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 7: instead of tied to take out else, I was like, okay,

909
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 7: now that I mentioned it, I totally forgot.

910
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: Did you pay attention at all to the Shan thing

911
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: at all? Oh? Yeah, of course, of course. Are you

912
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: ready to respond to that?

913
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 7: No, no, because I didn't feel I didn't feel disrespected

914
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 7: like you just talking.

915
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 2: You know the record we never Lady Beaton never played

916
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: that song in Philly, so I didn't know about oh.

917
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: You mean with Shane when he went at me right,

918
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: Oh no, I didn't care about that. Man. I thought

919
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: it was funny, really, I mean, I mean a limo,

920
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: you know, like it was hilarious, like.

921
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 7: I'm laughing at this ship like you know, at that time,

922
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 7: Come on, be like heat bite up. Okay, besides, I

923
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 7: like the pattern though, you know what I mean.

924
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: Besides, like you know, like the folklore of busy bee

925
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: and mod like beef really really wasn't a thing. Besides

926
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:50,320
Speaker 1: like the rock sand.

927
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 2: But for you, it's like obviously there's something in you

928
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 2: that makes people want to like, Okay, he's at the

929
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 2: top of the pile, so let me try and take

930
00:43:59,200 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: him out.

931
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: Like how how did that feel?

932
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 3: Like?

933
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 1: Did you have a by that point? Did you have

934
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: a not a crew? But I just mean like your

935
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: native tongues like okay, well no, because like I told you,

936
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: I was joe It on ecstasy.

937
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 7: Or no, I have my dude, like I told you

938
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 7: who I hung out with. So that was my mindset.

939
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 7: So if anything, it was more like, you know, just

940
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 7: making sure that I'm.

941
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: Protecting my territory.

942
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 7: That's the way I looked at it, Like I'm just

943
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 7: not gonna let nobody step on my toes. You know,

944
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 7: it's all good, but if you say something about me,

945
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 7: I gotta I gotta you know, you gotta get this

946
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 7: cause I gotta protect my territory. That's the way I

947
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 7: looked at it. It's very simple.

948
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: Now I see I know the history of it, but

949
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: I never knew how the modem thing you started. Well, mo,

950
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: the more thing.

951
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 7: Look, first of all, I love them right, Like Silver

952
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 7: Fox took me down to a studio one time he

953
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 7: was down there. I started rhyming in the studio. He's

954
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 7: he was doing doing a session or something. I think

955
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 7: we no, actually I wasn't. I was at scratched that

956
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 7: went to his session and we were watching and he

957
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 7: kicked me in Silver Fox out the studio.

958
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: He didn't want to sit there and all that, you know,

959
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so you know, but I still never said nothing,

960
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That was on him.

961
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 7: And then he just decided I'm bigger and better than

962
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 7: all this, you know, and forget about that.

963
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: Put the kno on to the.

964
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 7: You know. And that's when I just started doing, you know,

965
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 7: going back and forth with him.

966
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: But he was like in your because even then it

967
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: was in my ear. I heard like I heard your

968
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: response after the fact, like again, like who's in your head?

969
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: I didn't nobody. I didn't need nobody to tell me that.

970
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 7: It's it's kind of like, uh, you know, there's some

971
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 7: people they just built to like they'll hide in the

972
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 7: bushes and wait for you, and nobody got to tell

973
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 7: them to Some people were built like that. Everybody don't

974
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 7: need to be told stuff like I've never been a

975
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 7: guy that I don't need you to tell me, nothing

976
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 7: like like I'm paying attention.

977
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: So it's like, you know's you a different animal because

978
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: I'm s But then the reason why I'm asking you

979
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 2: this because I think it's amazing vote for starters. You

980
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 2: know when we talked about this briefly on the tour

981
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 2: that you know, because I too was wondering, well, how's

982
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 2: this iced teething gonna work? Like you know, but then

983
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 2: I realized, like, wow, that's crazy. Like LL has amicable

984
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 2: relationships with everyone. Clearly it was a sport.

985
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: Oh definitely, I never ever ever.

986
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 2: But we also come from a culture in which blood

987
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: has been easily shd without even thinking about it.

988
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: So let me let me tell you. I can explain

989
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: that to you.

990
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 7: So one thing I learned right and this is this

991
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 7: is the honest to god truth by me hanging out

992
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 7: with gangsters so much as a youngster, I learned that

993
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 7: the last thing you want to do is walk around

994
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 7: trying to be tough.

995
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 1: That's how you get yourself in trouble, trying to be

996
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: a tough guy. So what does that mean?

997
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 7: That means that now, mind you, if somebody tries to

998
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 7: do something to you, that's a different conversation. We're not

999
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 7: talking about that. But I'm talking about the wondering around

1000
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 7: which your chest poked out. That's how you get yourself

1001
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 7: in trouble. So when I see mo or when I

1002
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 7: see it, it's not I'm not beefing, it's what it is. Okay,

1003
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 7: you said that, that's where we're gonna leave it at,

1004
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 7: and we're gonna leave you know what I mean, Like,

1005
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 7: it's not I don't have to get it, doesn't have

1006
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 7: to go further than that, because I'm confident in my

1007
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 7: skill set on the mic to handle this. Okay, that's

1008
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 7: how it felt, and I didn't see any reason to

1009
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 7: try to go further than it. Plus yeah, because why

1010
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 7: I'm not gonna test you as a man.

1011
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: I don't need to do that.

1012
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 7: I don't need to try to test ice tea as

1013
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 7: a man, or test mode as a man, or put

1014
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 7: them in a position where they got we gotta gotta

1015
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 7: go further, because then that's just that's kind of what

1016
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 7: speak to my weakness. It's more about like, Yo, this

1017
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 7: is what you said. Okay, so we're gonna settle it

1018
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 7: like this, that's where you want it now.

1019
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, man, and I wouldn't go go

1020
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:43,959
Speaker 1: for everything if everyone else has.

1021
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 6: Followed to fast forward thirty or more years seeing him

1022
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 6: on that four store in the form that was a

1023
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 6: moment and also realizing that y'all have been these men

1024
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 6: who you are today longer than anything before being famous.

1025
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 6: So I'm so curious like in that moment, I know

1026
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 6: y'all greeted each other the backstage and everything, but did

1027
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 6: y'all have a moment of like damn, first of all,

1028
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 6: hip hop built this and second of.

1029
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 7: All, brother, yeah, I want to look. I told I said, listen, man,

1030
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 7: do what you do?

1031
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: Man. I told him, like, yo, Ice, get out there,

1032
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: do what you do. Remember, I'm like, yo, do it

1033
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: you want in this And Ice came to me like, yo, man,

1034
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that. Like you know, I'm.

1035
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 6: So we'd watching him because he's too too olda to

1036
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 6: most people in real life anyway, So him do those

1037
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 6: songs is also kind of.

1038
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 7: Like but I loved it, like my thing is like Yo,

1039
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 7: it was like, that's why I still did I shot you.

1040
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 7: I still said crush crumb. I love him, but that's

1041
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 7: my man. I love Ice, I love him, but I'm

1042
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 7: gonna still do the songs like I'm not gonna respectfully,

1043
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 7: Like you always got to ask yourself this question.

1044
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: If you did then what you're doing now, would you

1045
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 1: be hearing now? I'm not. I'm not changing that.

1046
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 7: I'm not gonna be editing my songs and pretending that

1047
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 7: the song was something different because I've gone to a

1048
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 7: different stage in life.

1049
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. You know what. I'm doing the

1050
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: song miss right, I'm doing the song. This is the

1051
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: song now.

1052
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 4: I was so happy to see at the show because

1053
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 4: that first of all, that was my first time ever

1054
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 4: seeing you live, and so I was so happy to

1055
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 4: see you do. Jack the Ripper, I knew he was

1056
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 4: gonna do the hits. He's like, Okay, no, we're gonna

1057
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 4: get him bad. I know we're gonna get Mama.

1058
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,399
Speaker 1: Said knock you out. But bro Jack the Ripper missed

1059
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: the good ball. I was like yo, I was like,

1060
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: oh this here we did Candy. I was like, oh,

1061
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 1: he that was for us that his filler is just

1062
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: as important. As the Hitle. Yeah, you said it.

1063
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 2: Also shout out to you know, the Z Trip also yeah,

1064
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 2: but you did say it. You guys both said it's important.

1065
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 2: It was important to do both, all right. So what

1066
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 2: I want to know is, uh, god, we're still in

1067
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 2: the eighty seventh.

1068
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 1: How did you meet the l A Posse? Right? And

1069
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: why didn't Rick produce the second album?

1070
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 6: So?

1071
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 7: Rick and Russell got into a beef over I don't

1072
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 7: know what it was about. Whatever it was, they started

1073
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 7: having ten in their relationship. Rick was angry and you know,

1074
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 7: somehow they separated or and Rick didn't want to produce

1075
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 7: it because of that reason.

1076
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: So it was political. It had nothing to do with me, mind.

1077
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 7: You we later you want to work with him, of course, absolutely.

1078
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 7: I mean it was a comfort zone at that point,

1079
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 7: you know. I mean we had just had this platinum album,

1080
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 7: like it was. Everything was great, but you know, politics.

1081
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 7: So it was time for the second album and in

1082
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 7: the LA Posse were working on records with another artist.

1083
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 7: In the records, was sounded like they were trying to

1084
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 7: make ell sounding songs. It sounded like they were making

1085
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 7: ll sounding songs to Russell. So Russell played, gave me,

1086
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 7: told me to get with them. And so I got

1087
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 7: with them and we started talking and vibing and you know,

1088
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 7: we were all you know, there was just some dudes

1089
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,479
Speaker 7: from California, which I loved.

1090
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, how strange of an adjustment was that?

1091
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,399
Speaker 7: It wasn't strange at all, because you know, my father

1092
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 7: had moved out to Cali and I had when I

1093
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 7: was fourteen, you know what I'm saying. I had been

1094
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 7: out there already with my pops a little bit, and

1095
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 7: so you know, getting with Bobcat and getting with Muffler

1096
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 7: and getting with all of those guys in California, I

1097
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 7: loved it. And they would take me down in the

1098
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,439
Speaker 7: hood and all that, and you know, Bob Cat would

1099
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 7: have me down there over this set and all this.

1100
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: Oh man, it was the while out. So you know,

1101
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: we you know, I love Cali.

1102
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 7: So that's why I have such great relationships and friendships

1103
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 7: in California and so many, so much love out there.

1104
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 7: So my second album, This is eighty seven, I made

1105
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 7: him bad. I need love all them songs with Cali producers.

1106
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 7: So I was already kind of with like getting outside

1107
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 7: of the box. It didn't it was about the music

1108
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 7: for me. It wasn't about where you're from, because I

1109
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 7: felt like I was gonna write the songs and bring

1110
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 7: bring to it what I needed to bring to it,

1111
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 7: you know what I mean. So that was the vibe,

1112
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 7: you know what I'm saying. Wow, And we ended up.

1113
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 7: So that's when we you know, you had KD and

1114
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 7: Greg Mack and you know, you know, world on wheels

1115
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 7: and did you live out there? You just no, no,

1116
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 7: Actually I brought them to Queen's and they lived across

1117
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 7: the street from my grandmother's house.

1118
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 1: I got them a room and then yeah, yeah, I

1119
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: got them a room.

1120
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 7: And the lady across the street from me her house

1121
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 7: in the basement, so they was living across the street.

1122
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 2: You got to answer this one question for me, what

1123
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 2: is a recording budget? So Pots told me on tour

1124
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 2: the three ft Hind Rising was made for fourteen No No,

1125
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 2: No three Rise of May for twenty one thousand to

1126
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 2: save money because Possa told me that a Q tip

1127
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: verse got to raise from Afro Connections at a high

1128
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:42,439
Speaker 2: five because Paul was trying to save two inch tape.

1129
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 2: So he told me dyl Sous Dead cost fourteen thousand dollars.

1130
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 2: What is what was a budget for a record.

1131
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 7: Back then, Well it varied, so you know, I mean

1132
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 7: on around that second album, I don't know, maybe somewhere

1133
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,720
Speaker 7: between one hundred and fifty and two and fifty, okay,

1134
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 7: somewhere around there.

1135
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: It seemed like it was fairy for them. Correct. It

1136
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: was crazy, I mean it was, I mean it was

1137
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you get a bench for thirty

1138
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: g's It was crazy.

1139
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 7: It was you rocking like you are out of control

1140
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 7: with that, like you sky's the limit baby, whoa, we're

1141
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:19,399
Speaker 7: in here now?

1142
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 1: Do you still own your grandmother's house? Yeah? So what

1143
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 1: is it about that environment?

1144
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,280
Speaker 2: Because I believe that you said that you always write

1145
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 2: your best when you're in that environment, so.

1146
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 1: So you know, you know, my my uncle told me

1147
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: there was some magic there.

1148
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 7: So you know, I just believe if you're gonna if

1149
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 7: you're gonna write songs for people, you have to be

1150
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 7: able to relate to the people. Even even nowadays, you know,

1151
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 7: jumping in and out of you know, uber blacks and

1152
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 7: town calls or being fancy, you're not connecting with the

1153
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 7: world and the thing that you lose sight.

1154
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 1: Of all of y'all. Literally right, he's here.

1155
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 6: But I feel like maybe out like you.

1156
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 7: Know what I mean, that's about you, not about you know, gid.

1157
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 8: I so you gotta be a nice car too, by

1158
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 8: the way, very nice, very nice. I was like, yo,

1159
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:16,439
Speaker 8: I gotta get one of them. That was very nice,

1160
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 8: very nice. Maybe quest got a very nice Maybe that's

1161
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 8: this is nice.

1162
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: Mean, that's just mean. K let him cook, let him cook.

1163
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 7: So I'm like, yo, so, but you know, I just

1164
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 7: I just feel like you got to connect with the people.

1165
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 7: And the thing you lose sight of is danger, and

1166
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 7: danger makes you write differently.

1167
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 2: Wait, did I hear a rumor that you once entertained

1168
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 2: the thought of writing at Rikers or some ship like, Well, I.

1169
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: Visited the jails a lot. I visited the jails a lot.

1170
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: I did. I visited the jails quite.

1171
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 7: But did I imagine that you actually said, like I

1172
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 7: gotta know, I would.

1173
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 1: Visit the jail and then go to the studio. I

1174
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: did that during the Gold album.

1175
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 6: Actually you visited the folks there and to somebody personally.

1176
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 7: Both I knew guys in that I didn't know it

1177
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 7: was in there, and just yeah, I went up norf

1178
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 7: Right now, I probably know half to do that.

1179
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 2: Joy Like three decades after there were three decades plus

1180
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 2: after the fact, do you find okay? So I understand

1181
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 2: that some might see and I'm not one of these people.

1182
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 2: As evidence of how many songs I'm trying to throw

1183
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 2: from from Panther in the set right, that people's relationship

1184
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 2: with Panther is different. After the fact that it came out,

1185
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 2: Light told me the story about your involvement with self destruction.

1186
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and I didn't realize that you wrote lights

1187
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 2: verse and he told d nice like, look not for nothing.

1188
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 2: But when I come back, I got to come back

1189
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 2: on something. Yeah, so you like, can you tell the

1190
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 2: self destruction? Yeah, self destruction.

1191
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 7: So basically, you know, they asked me to be a

1192
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 7: part of the song, and at that time, I just

1193
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 7: didn't want to do it.

1194
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 1: I just didn't.

1195
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 7: I just didn't feel like that was the right way

1196
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 7: for me to reintroduce myself to everybody coming off of

1197
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 7: this record that had been kind of you know, panned

1198
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 7: and people sleeping on me and all that. But at

1199
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 7: the same time, I wanted to make a contribution of

1200
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 7: some sort, so I wrote mc Light's part, you know,

1201
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:22,280
Speaker 7: Scott's table to raise a blade, tape.

1202
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: To your collar and all that. You know, Yeah.

1203
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I did that for Light and you know

1204
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 7: I felt great. You know, people didn't know, and I

1205
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 7: was cool with that, you know what I'm saying, Like

1206
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 7: I've done that a lot.

1207
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 4: You know, saying the self Destruction joint that made me

1208
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 4: think the Heal record, the Human Education Against Lies, Why

1209
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 4: weren't you in the video for that one of those records.

1210
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 7: I was busy and then you know, I man, my

1211
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 7: schedule back then, you know, was different from most rappers.

1212
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:51,439
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.

1213
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 7: I was on a different level. Yeah, so I was

1214
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 7: on a different level. So I just was busy and

1215
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,399
Speaker 7: I just couldn't do some things and I would say

1216
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 7: no to other things. And you know, I'm unapologetic about it,

1217
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 7: you know what I'm saying, Like it is what it is, bro,

1218
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 7: Like I did it many times, you know.

1219
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, like two years ago, I just someone's like, you know,

1220
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: that's not ll and no, it is, it is, that's you.

1221
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: That's absolutely me in the video.

1222
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 7: Absolutely then my listen, the real story is that you know,

1223
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 7: at that time, I was in I think I was

1224
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 7: in contract negotiations.

1225
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 1: I was midway through it.

1226
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 7: My father just who was my manager at that time,

1227
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 7: just absolutely did not want me in that video and

1228
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 7: just drove me absolutely bananas, and I said, well, we

1229
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 7: got to figure something out. So, you know, I finally

1230
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 7: just say, you know what, let's just just put a

1231
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 7: silhouette there. I do it for a silhouette because I

1232
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 7: can't play these guys like that, right, And so I

1233
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 7: did it with the silhouette, you know what I'm saying.

1234
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 7: So that was my way of doing something for Confise,

1235
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 7: you know what I'm saying. That was my way of

1236
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 7: doing something for them, because my pops was driving me bananas.

1237
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: And yeah, what was that light having him as your manager?

1238
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 7: Bro?

1239
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: My father was. He was funny man. He was something else.

1240
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 7: He was something else because remember he had his own

1241
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 7: label before that, he had you know, he had a label.

1242
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 7: He's yeah, my father, you know, had labeled Sauce of

1243
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 7: ple Conte and records, and you know he used to

1244
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 7: you know, work with you know, different artists like the

1245
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 7: Coasters and different people, and he was, yeah, my father, Yeah,

1246
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 7: my father was a singer.

1247
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: He was a singer.

1248
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, he's a soul singer. And so he was you

1249
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 7: know what I'm saying. And so, you know, but he

1250
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:29,919
Speaker 7: was funny man. You're gonna get this kid his money,

1251
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 7: pulling out knives on the record company.

1252
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: These bananas. I loved him. I loved the man. He

1253
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: was something else. He was Oh he was. Oh he

1254
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: was a piece of work.

1255
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 6: Was He managed you until he couldn't anymore.

1256
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: He managed me until it got over his head.

1257
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 7: It just, honestly, it just it just to be honest

1258
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 7: with you, to give you the real honest answer that

1259
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 7: the the the career and the money that was the

1260
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 7: stuff that came. It got beyond his ability to handle.

1261
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 7: You know what I'm saying, And it's you know, I

1262
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 7: get it. You know, I gotta pay my taxes, y'all.

1263
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 7: My taxes gotta be paid. Like we can we can

1264
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 7: talk about all that tough guys ship he stops and

1265
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 7: equity are Did you pay your taxes?

1266
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 1: Like like, let's start there, you know what I mean?

1267
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 1: So I gotta pay Yeah, I gotta pay my taxes.

1268
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: So I was like, yo, you know, I start getting

1269
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: little calls like how much what I'm asking him? And

1270
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: he don't worry about it.

1271
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 7: My bad wine from trading Joe's on the corporate card.

1272
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 7: I'm like, yo, come on, beat, it ain't that big

1273
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 7: of a deal. But it was just like, come on,

1274
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 7: you know, I feel I love him. Though I love him,

1275
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 7: he was a good guy. What up?

1276
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 6: Quls fam Okay, So I think this is the perfect

1277
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 6: place to stop Part one. Can you believe one hour?

1278
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 6: And we only got to nineteen ninety yep, believe it.

1279
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 6: But we wanted to take our time with this one

1280
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 6: cause y'all know this is years in the making. So

1281
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 6: come back next week or check out your podcast feed.

1282
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 6: Part two of ql Les and l L Cool check

1283
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 6: This one was definitely worth the way. Shout out to

1284
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 6: l L and make sure you stay tuned for his

1285
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 6: album The Force.

1286
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to quest Love Supreme. This podcast

1287
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 4: is hosted by Amir quest Love, Thompson, Boss Man, Laia,

1288
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 4: Saint Clair, So Black and the Black Myself, Fontigelo, Fonte Coleman, Sugar,

1289
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 4: Steve Mandell and Unpaid Bill Sherman. The executive producers are

1290
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 4: a Mere quest Love, Thompson, Sean g and The Unbothered

1291
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 4: Brian Calhoun. Produced by Britney Benjamin, my Dog Cousin, Jake Payin,

1292
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 4: My Motherfucking Man and Like It's Saint Clair my work Wife,

1293
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 4: edited by Alex Conroy.

1294
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: Produced for our Heart by Noel Brown and Mike Johns.

1295
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 4: Audio engineering by Graham Gibson akauble g at I Heeart's

1296
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 4: La Studio.

1297
01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in. Check us out next week.

1298
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 2: M's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more

1299
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1300
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.