1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:23,356 Speaker 1: Pushkin. When Mohammed Assure was in medical school back in 2 00:00:23,436 --> 00:00:26,796 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, he and a few friends heard about this contest. 3 00:00:27,676 --> 00:00:30,116 Speaker 1: The team that came up with the best idea for 4 00:00:30,156 --> 00:00:34,036 Speaker 1: a business to address global food insecurity would win one 5 00:00:34,116 --> 00:00:37,636 Speaker 1: million dollars to launch the business, and, like lots of 6 00:00:37,676 --> 00:00:41,476 Speaker 1: people before them, Mohammed and his friends soon discovered crickets. 7 00:00:42,036 --> 00:00:44,996 Speaker 1: They learned that crickets are a super efficient machine for 8 00:00:45,116 --> 00:00:50,036 Speaker 1: turning grain into protein. Quick comparison, a cow eats eight 9 00:00:50,076 --> 00:00:53,956 Speaker 1: pounds of grain to make one pound of beef. For chicken, 10 00:00:54,076 --> 00:00:56,356 Speaker 1: the ratio's two and a half to one, and for 11 00:00:56,476 --> 00:01:00,396 Speaker 1: crickets the ratio is just one point three to one. 12 00:01:00,636 --> 00:01:04,076 Speaker 1: Incredibly efficient. This is the part of the eating bug 13 00:01:04,156 --> 00:01:07,276 Speaker 1: story that we've heard before, but the problem always seems 14 00:01:07,316 --> 00:01:09,956 Speaker 1: to be how do you get a mayors to eat 15 00:01:09,956 --> 00:01:14,076 Speaker 1: bugs deep crickets. Mohammed's big idea was to avoid that 16 00:01:14,156 --> 00:01:18,156 Speaker 1: problem altogether. Instead, he and his co founders would bring 17 00:01:18,196 --> 00:01:20,996 Speaker 1: down the price of crickets for millions of people in 18 00:01:21,076 --> 00:01:23,956 Speaker 1: other parts of the world where people already eat crickets, 19 00:01:24,156 --> 00:01:27,476 Speaker 1: but where crickets are not always available or affordable. That 20 00:01:27,596 --> 00:01:30,316 Speaker 1: turned out to be a surprisingly hard problem. To solve, 21 00:01:30,756 --> 00:01:33,116 Speaker 1: but the idea was enough to win the million dollar 22 00:01:33,196 --> 00:01:38,836 Speaker 1: prize and launch the business. I'm Jacob Goldstein and this 23 00:01:38,916 --> 00:01:41,796 Speaker 1: is What's your problem. My guest today is Mohammed Assure, 24 00:01:42,196 --> 00:01:45,836 Speaker 1: founder and CEO of Aspire Food Group. The company just 25 00:01:45,916 --> 00:01:49,236 Speaker 1: built the biggest cricket factory in the history of the world. 26 00:01:49,796 --> 00:01:53,756 Speaker 1: Mohammed's problem now, how do you sell billions of crickets 27 00:01:53,836 --> 00:01:57,236 Speaker 1: a year. Today's show is a story about finding your 28 00:01:57,276 --> 00:02:00,916 Speaker 1: market and also about one of my favorite ideas, an 29 00:02:00,956 --> 00:02:03,916 Speaker 1: idea that maybe not surprisingly has become one of the 30 00:02:03,956 --> 00:02:08,396 Speaker 1: recurring themes of this podcast. The idea is this, one 31 00:02:08,436 --> 00:02:11,996 Speaker 1: of the key drivers of human progress is using technology 32 00:02:12,116 --> 00:02:15,596 Speaker 1: to make things cheaper. In this case, the thing technology 33 00:02:15,676 --> 00:02:21,396 Speaker 1: is making cheaper is crickets bugs. When we started the business, 34 00:02:21,436 --> 00:02:24,676 Speaker 1: our goal was not actually from the get go to 35 00:02:24,796 --> 00:02:29,436 Speaker 1: get North Americans eating bugs. In many of the world's countries, 36 00:02:29,636 --> 00:02:33,676 Speaker 1: insects are already consumed as a delicious delicacy that is 37 00:02:33,756 --> 00:02:36,756 Speaker 1: highly nutritious and celebrated. But in many of those countries, 38 00:02:37,036 --> 00:02:41,036 Speaker 1: crickets or other insects are just not available, not affordable seasonal. 39 00:02:41,276 --> 00:02:42,876 Speaker 1: So you want to go to a place where they're 40 00:02:42,876 --> 00:02:44,876 Speaker 1: at delicacy. I mean the reason they're at delicacy is 41 00:02:44,876 --> 00:02:47,996 Speaker 1: because they're expensive, right, Like that's delicacy means. And so 42 00:02:48,036 --> 00:02:50,636 Speaker 1: the idea was, we want to now make this protein 43 00:02:50,676 --> 00:02:56,116 Speaker 1: source which is already accepted here, available and affordable year round. Right. 44 00:02:56,236 --> 00:02:59,036 Speaker 1: Some of those countries I mean, I know famously Wahaka 45 00:02:59,236 --> 00:03:01,716 Speaker 1: right in Mexico. What are some of the other places 46 00:03:01,716 --> 00:03:04,996 Speaker 1: where people at crickets, Oh gosh, I mean in Africa alone, 47 00:03:05,076 --> 00:03:09,476 Speaker 1: you have you know, Gonea, Nigeria, you have South Africa, 48 00:03:09,796 --> 00:03:12,516 Speaker 1: you have Niger. If you go to the Middle East, 49 00:03:12,516 --> 00:03:14,556 Speaker 1: you have Saudi Arabia, you have Kuwait. Like these are 50 00:03:14,556 --> 00:03:17,116 Speaker 1: places where locusts are widely consumed. If you go to Asia, 51 00:03:17,236 --> 00:03:19,836 Speaker 1: you have some of the countries like Thailand and Vietnam. 52 00:03:19,956 --> 00:03:24,116 Speaker 1: And now it's not in every one of these countries. 53 00:03:24,236 --> 00:03:28,716 Speaker 1: There are certain you know, cities or municipalities or areas 54 00:03:28,716 --> 00:03:31,156 Speaker 1: where insects are widely consumed because of their geography or 55 00:03:31,196 --> 00:03:34,236 Speaker 1: their climate, and others less so. But fundamentally, it's a 56 00:03:34,356 --> 00:03:36,396 Speaker 1: very large percentage of the world's countries that have some 57 00:03:36,556 --> 00:03:40,316 Speaker 1: history of consuming insects. So what you want for your 58 00:03:40,756 --> 00:03:43,436 Speaker 1: for your mission really is a place where lots of 59 00:03:43,476 --> 00:03:45,996 Speaker 1: people are hungry, you struggle to have enough food and 60 00:03:46,076 --> 00:03:50,196 Speaker 1: where eating crickets is already normal exactly. That's that's right, 61 00:03:50,196 --> 00:03:52,276 Speaker 1: and that that was our focus from the beginning. And 62 00:03:52,356 --> 00:03:55,436 Speaker 1: so if that was the focus, this is why not 63 00:03:55,716 --> 00:03:59,036 Speaker 1: build the factory there? Yeah. So one of the challenges 64 00:03:59,116 --> 00:04:01,796 Speaker 1: we've faced is we actually tried. So when we first 65 00:04:01,836 --> 00:04:05,396 Speaker 1: started the company, one of my co founders moved to Ghana, 66 00:04:05,516 --> 00:04:08,036 Speaker 1: and one of us moved to Wahaca, Mexico, and I 67 00:04:08,196 --> 00:04:10,876 Speaker 1: moved to Austin, EXUS where we were starting to pilot 68 00:04:10,916 --> 00:04:14,556 Speaker 1: cricket farming. And the challenges we faced is both the 69 00:04:14,596 --> 00:04:16,876 Speaker 1: talent that you needed to have placed there in order 70 00:04:16,916 --> 00:04:20,796 Speaker 1: to build the capability, not just the engineering talent but 71 00:04:20,836 --> 00:04:23,516 Speaker 1: also the entomology talent and the understanding of how to 72 00:04:23,516 --> 00:04:28,476 Speaker 1: grow those insects at scale, and the agricultural requirements to 73 00:04:28,556 --> 00:04:32,716 Speaker 1: regulatory requirements of a lot of factors were very challenging 74 00:04:32,716 --> 00:04:34,156 Speaker 1: to be able to pull off for a bunch of 75 00:04:34,196 --> 00:04:38,316 Speaker 1: like expat foreign students. Okay, so you tried. So the answer, 76 00:04:38,356 --> 00:04:42,236 Speaker 1: as you tried, the answer is too hard to Yeah. Yeah, 77 00:04:42,276 --> 00:04:44,356 Speaker 1: for us, for us as a founding team, given our 78 00:04:44,396 --> 00:04:47,916 Speaker 1: specific circumstances and given some of the realities we were 79 00:04:48,036 --> 00:04:50,836 Speaker 1: we were experiencing at the time, and now when we 80 00:04:51,036 --> 00:04:53,396 Speaker 1: when we decided, okay, well we're going to produce crickets 81 00:04:53,436 --> 00:04:56,876 Speaker 1: in North America and you know, focus perhaps on shipping 82 00:04:57,156 --> 00:04:59,676 Speaker 1: overseas to some of these markets, that's when we also 83 00:04:59,716 --> 00:05:02,636 Speaker 1: started to see this opportunity. And part of this was 84 00:05:02,716 --> 00:05:05,396 Speaker 1: driven by inbound requests. So back in twenty fifteen, right 85 00:05:05,436 --> 00:05:07,916 Speaker 1: around when we built our factory in US, our very 86 00:05:07,916 --> 00:05:10,756 Speaker 1: first facility, there was a bunch of startups that we're 87 00:05:10,756 --> 00:05:13,116 Speaker 1: getting funding on, like shark Tank and a whole bunch 88 00:05:13,116 --> 00:05:15,036 Speaker 1: of others that we're getting, you know, funded on Kickstarter 89 00:05:15,236 --> 00:05:17,756 Speaker 1: very successfully, that we're making, you know, protein bars from 90 00:05:17,796 --> 00:05:20,956 Speaker 1: crickets or other snacks from crickets that we're reaching out 91 00:05:20,956 --> 00:05:23,716 Speaker 1: to us asking us if we can supply them. So, okay, 92 00:05:23,756 --> 00:05:25,996 Speaker 1: you realize you aren't going to be able to build 93 00:05:25,996 --> 00:05:29,836 Speaker 1: a factory somewhere people already eat crickets. You're thinking maybe 94 00:05:29,836 --> 00:05:32,836 Speaker 1: you'll ship them there, but but you also think, well, 95 00:05:32,876 --> 00:05:34,996 Speaker 1: you've got the crickets anyways. People are kind of into 96 00:05:34,996 --> 00:05:37,236 Speaker 1: crickets in the US right now, and you actually try 97 00:05:37,276 --> 00:05:39,956 Speaker 1: this sort of plan B move where you sell bags 98 00:05:39,956 --> 00:05:42,916 Speaker 1: of crickets like chips in the US, right, tell me 99 00:05:42,916 --> 00:05:46,836 Speaker 1: about that. So the idea was simple. It was to 100 00:05:47,036 --> 00:05:50,076 Speaker 1: so try to go on one side where you are 101 00:05:50,156 --> 00:05:52,716 Speaker 1: so explicit about the fact that this is a cricket 102 00:05:53,116 --> 00:05:55,836 Speaker 1: that you actually present it as a snack in whole 103 00:05:55,876 --> 00:05:58,716 Speaker 1: cricket form. Right, So you take these crickets, you roast them, 104 00:05:58,996 --> 00:06:02,116 Speaker 1: you apply seasoning like you know, it's like chips seasoning, right, 105 00:06:02,116 --> 00:06:05,116 Speaker 1: like barbecue or sour cream or whatever, and they would 106 00:06:05,156 --> 00:06:08,396 Speaker 1: be consumed not dissimilarly to something like jerky in the 107 00:06:08,436 --> 00:06:11,276 Speaker 1: sense that it's a very meaty, high protein snack that 108 00:06:11,396 --> 00:06:14,876 Speaker 1: is savory. And it was very interesting to see the 109 00:06:14,916 --> 00:06:16,996 Speaker 1: response we got because you sort of had like a 110 00:06:17,076 --> 00:06:18,996 Speaker 1: certain percentage, and I would say, it's a small but 111 00:06:19,116 --> 00:06:23,916 Speaker 1: extremely dedicated, you know, very devoted following of people who 112 00:06:24,156 --> 00:06:26,636 Speaker 1: found this to be super nutritious and delicious, but of 113 00:06:26,636 --> 00:06:29,756 Speaker 1: course and also made it like their whole identity, like, hey, 114 00:06:29,756 --> 00:06:31,756 Speaker 1: call me cricket, I'm the cricket that I love to 115 00:06:31,796 --> 00:06:34,836 Speaker 1: snack on crickets. Ask me about crickets. Yeah, that's right. 116 00:06:34,916 --> 00:06:38,676 Speaker 1: And they were remarkably popular amongst children in particular. And 117 00:06:38,716 --> 00:06:40,796 Speaker 1: then you had on the flip side. I would say 118 00:06:40,836 --> 00:06:44,636 Speaker 1: a much larger percentage of people whom that was too 119 00:06:44,716 --> 00:06:47,476 Speaker 1: much in terms of like just visually seeing a cricket 120 00:06:47,476 --> 00:06:48,836 Speaker 1: and being able to pick it up and eat it. 121 00:06:48,916 --> 00:06:51,036 Speaker 1: I don't want to eat a bug. Seems like that's right, 122 00:06:51,196 --> 00:06:54,236 Speaker 1: not that surprising response. Yeah, so okay. So at this point, 123 00:06:54,276 --> 00:06:58,076 Speaker 1: like plan A, build a factory where people already eat crickets. 124 00:06:58,476 --> 00:07:01,636 Speaker 1: That didn't work. Plan B, sell crickets to people in 125 00:07:01,676 --> 00:07:04,236 Speaker 1: North America. That's not going great. But then there's this 126 00:07:04,276 --> 00:07:06,756 Speaker 1: moment when you kind of get your big break. Tell 127 00:07:06,756 --> 00:07:11,596 Speaker 1: me about that. We were actually at a food in Anaheim, California. 128 00:07:12,276 --> 00:07:16,436 Speaker 1: We had at the time a large company that primarily 129 00:07:16,436 --> 00:07:20,716 Speaker 1: focuses on pet food, looking for human grade ingredients so 130 00:07:20,756 --> 00:07:22,996 Speaker 1: they could sell some premium thing like give your dog 131 00:07:23,116 --> 00:07:24,996 Speaker 1: chicken that's as good as the chicken you eat, that 132 00:07:25,076 --> 00:07:28,356 Speaker 1: kind of thing exactly, And that led to was this 133 00:07:28,476 --> 00:07:33,116 Speaker 1: unbelievable rabbit hole where we became to understand that Over 134 00:07:33,156 --> 00:07:36,236 Speaker 1: the last decade or so, there has been a two 135 00:07:36,516 --> 00:07:38,396 Speaker 1: major trends in pet food. The first has been the 136 00:07:38,476 --> 00:07:41,196 Speaker 1: humanization of pets. Pets are no longer this furry thing 137 00:07:41,196 --> 00:07:43,316 Speaker 1: that greets you and makes you feel good. It is 138 00:07:43,396 --> 00:07:45,836 Speaker 1: a member of the household, and in most households, the 139 00:07:45,876 --> 00:07:50,596 Speaker 1: favorite child. Yeah. And as a result, when that's your philosophy, 140 00:07:50,756 --> 00:07:54,356 Speaker 1: that means you feed and clothe your pets accordingly. Yeah. 141 00:07:54,556 --> 00:07:57,076 Speaker 1: And the amount of money that people are spending on 142 00:07:57,116 --> 00:07:59,076 Speaker 1: their pets a staggering And by the way, pets represent 143 00:07:59,076 --> 00:08:01,796 Speaker 1: about one in four calories consumed when it comes to 144 00:08:01,836 --> 00:08:05,236 Speaker 1: animal products in North America. So just to be clear, 145 00:08:05,316 --> 00:08:09,796 Speaker 1: twenty five percent of the meat calories and consumed in 146 00:08:09,876 --> 00:08:14,916 Speaker 1: North America is consumed by pets. That's correct. Okay, let's 147 00:08:14,916 --> 00:08:16,956 Speaker 1: go back to Anaheim. So you're taught in the some 148 00:08:17,196 --> 00:08:19,636 Speaker 1: pet food company, yes, And they come to us and 149 00:08:19,676 --> 00:08:23,316 Speaker 1: they start asking us about you know this this cricket protein, 150 00:08:23,356 --> 00:08:24,916 Speaker 1: and you know what are we feeding as as human grade? 151 00:08:24,916 --> 00:08:27,596 Speaker 1: Oh yes it is. Okay, Well, tell us about sustainability, 152 00:08:27,596 --> 00:08:30,356 Speaker 1: and we start describing the sustainability benefits, and their eyes 153 00:08:30,436 --> 00:08:33,756 Speaker 1: just flash and they start describing to us the challenges 154 00:08:33,796 --> 00:08:35,996 Speaker 1: their customers are facing because they're sort of in a 155 00:08:35,996 --> 00:08:38,516 Speaker 1: moral an ethical dilemma that a lot of their customers face, 156 00:08:38,556 --> 00:08:41,916 Speaker 1: who are mostly millennials, the largest pet owning demographic by far, 157 00:08:42,956 --> 00:08:44,756 Speaker 1: face this dilemma where on the one hand, they want 158 00:08:44,756 --> 00:08:47,396 Speaker 1: to feed their pets like their humans, and that's benevolent, 159 00:08:47,476 --> 00:08:49,836 Speaker 1: but then most of what they have to choose from 160 00:08:49,916 --> 00:08:53,676 Speaker 1: to feed their pets is not very environmentally ecologically healthy. 161 00:08:53,676 --> 00:08:56,436 Speaker 1: And that's the other thing. Two dogs are, you know, 162 00:08:56,516 --> 00:08:59,436 Speaker 1: omnivores that preferentially consume meat in their diet, and cats 163 00:08:59,436 --> 00:09:02,836 Speaker 1: are carnivores. So there's also a challenge with just using 164 00:09:02,916 --> 00:09:06,076 Speaker 1: purely plant based or vegetable based. Yeah. Right now, if 165 00:09:06,116 --> 00:09:08,676 Speaker 1: you're like a center left millennial, you want to do 166 00:09:08,716 --> 00:09:10,356 Speaker 1: the right thing for your pet and do there I 167 00:09:10,436 --> 00:09:13,076 Speaker 1: think for the earth? What do you do exactly? And 168 00:09:13,116 --> 00:09:16,156 Speaker 1: so this was the opportunity. Now, the next question this 169 00:09:16,236 --> 00:09:18,636 Speaker 1: customer asked me is well, how what's your volume today? 170 00:09:18,636 --> 00:09:22,076 Speaker 1: We're very interested. This customer is a big pet food company. Yes, 171 00:09:22,196 --> 00:09:24,796 Speaker 1: that's right, and well and they also manufacture and distribute 172 00:09:24,836 --> 00:09:27,276 Speaker 1: to other pet food companies as well. Okay, so they 173 00:09:27,316 --> 00:09:29,716 Speaker 1: ask us, you know, what's your production volume today? We said, well, 174 00:09:29,716 --> 00:09:32,636 Speaker 1: our production volume today is you know, maybe low hundreds 175 00:09:32,636 --> 00:09:35,476 Speaker 1: of thousands of pounds a year. They said, oh, okay, 176 00:09:35,516 --> 00:09:37,996 Speaker 1: well that's that's too bad. We said, well, why why 177 00:09:38,036 --> 00:09:39,956 Speaker 1: is it too bad? They said, you know, the guy 178 00:09:39,956 --> 00:09:41,716 Speaker 1: said to me is like, Muhammad, You're not going to 179 00:09:41,756 --> 00:09:43,476 Speaker 1: be able to move the needle in the pet food 180 00:09:43,516 --> 00:09:45,756 Speaker 1: market unless you get to a million pounds a month 181 00:09:45,996 --> 00:09:50,196 Speaker 1: or more because the demand is very significant and the 182 00:09:50,276 --> 00:09:53,156 Speaker 1: production the way you produce in terms of like the kibble, 183 00:09:53,196 --> 00:09:56,356 Speaker 1: et cetera, has always done at significant scale, and my customers, 184 00:09:56,516 --> 00:09:58,796 Speaker 1: even if they do a test launch in just one market, 185 00:09:59,116 --> 00:10:02,036 Speaker 1: that's like millions of pounds of a required product. So 186 00:10:02,516 --> 00:10:04,876 Speaker 1: of course I immediately said to that person and said, well, listen, 187 00:10:04,876 --> 00:10:08,156 Speaker 1: there's like clearly a value in a philosophical alignment between 188 00:10:08,396 --> 00:10:12,156 Speaker 1: you know, the market you represent and our mission as 189 00:10:12,156 --> 00:10:14,316 Speaker 1: a company. So I mean, if we were to have 190 00:10:14,396 --> 00:10:17,516 Speaker 1: the resources and capacity to scale to meet that volume, 191 00:10:17,796 --> 00:10:19,916 Speaker 1: is that something you would commit to? And they said, 192 00:10:20,116 --> 00:10:23,436 Speaker 1: we would sign today, you know, a commitment if you 193 00:10:23,476 --> 00:10:25,036 Speaker 1: were able to meet that volume and if you were 194 00:10:25,116 --> 00:10:26,556 Speaker 1: to meet that demand. And in fact, that is what 195 00:10:26,716 --> 00:10:29,836 Speaker 1: led to us being able. Now with this significant demand 196 00:10:29,836 --> 00:10:32,916 Speaker 1: in hand, we were able to justify building a commercial 197 00:10:32,956 --> 00:10:35,516 Speaker 1: facility that can lead to us meeting that market. So 198 00:10:35,916 --> 00:10:39,236 Speaker 1: you're gonna sell billions of crickets a year for pet 199 00:10:39,276 --> 00:10:42,556 Speaker 1: food startups in the next year, or so yeah, yeah, 200 00:10:42,596 --> 00:10:45,196 Speaker 1: exactly when are the first crickets going to go out 201 00:10:45,236 --> 00:10:47,836 Speaker 1: the door of your factory headed for a pet food factory? 202 00:10:49,476 --> 00:10:52,836 Speaker 1: In three months? In three months? Okay? Yea, And couldn't 203 00:10:52,836 --> 00:10:57,316 Speaker 1: you say what pet food company is buying crickets? You'll 204 00:10:57,356 --> 00:11:00,836 Speaker 1: find out very soon, Okay. I mean the only pet 205 00:11:00,836 --> 00:11:03,276 Speaker 1: food company I've heard of is Purina, so I'll just say, 206 00:11:03,396 --> 00:11:10,316 Speaker 1: is it Purina? No comment? Interesting? And it's not just 207 00:11:10,356 --> 00:11:12,596 Speaker 1: one It's not just one pet food brand, by the way, 208 00:11:15,956 --> 00:11:20,356 Speaker 1: So okay, plan See this pet food idea seems promising 209 00:11:20,636 --> 00:11:23,596 Speaker 1: for a few reasons. One is, pets eat a lot 210 00:11:23,596 --> 00:11:26,476 Speaker 1: of meat, which I didn't even really think about much 211 00:11:26,636 --> 00:11:29,276 Speaker 1: until I had this conversation with mommy, so there's a 212 00:11:29,316 --> 00:11:33,236 Speaker 1: real environmental problem to solve it. And also, bugs are 213 00:11:33,276 --> 00:11:36,476 Speaker 1: clearly not grows to most of the dogs and cats 214 00:11:36,556 --> 00:11:38,996 Speaker 1: I have known, at least, like if my dog found 215 00:11:38,996 --> 00:11:43,036 Speaker 1: a cricket on the sidewalk, he'd eat it. But now 216 00:11:43,076 --> 00:11:46,116 Speaker 1: that Mohammed has found his cricket demand, he has to 217 00:11:46,116 --> 00:11:49,556 Speaker 1: come up with the cricket supply coming up after the break, 218 00:11:49,836 --> 00:11:52,476 Speaker 1: how do you build the biggest, most high tech cricket 219 00:11:52,476 --> 00:12:01,956 Speaker 1: factory in the history of the world. Now back to 220 00:12:01,996 --> 00:12:04,996 Speaker 1: the show. Earlier this year, Mohammed and his colleagues opened 221 00:12:05,036 --> 00:12:09,676 Speaker 1: a giant cricket factory in London, Ontario, Canada. From the 222 00:12:09,756 --> 00:12:12,276 Speaker 1: outside the factory, it just looks like a big white 223 00:12:12,316 --> 00:12:15,516 Speaker 1: industrial building, and on the inside, to a large extent, 224 00:12:15,636 --> 00:12:18,676 Speaker 1: it also looks like a big industrial building. You know, 225 00:12:18,756 --> 00:12:22,476 Speaker 1: think of like robots moving around palettes with big plastic 226 00:12:22,516 --> 00:12:26,276 Speaker 1: bins on them, But inside each bin is tens of 227 00:12:26,356 --> 00:12:28,996 Speaker 1: thousands of live crickets. Is it allowed when you go 228 00:12:29,036 --> 00:12:32,916 Speaker 1: to where the crickets are is allowed? Not yet? You know, 229 00:12:32,956 --> 00:12:35,276 Speaker 1: we expect that once we get to full production capacity, 230 00:12:35,316 --> 00:12:40,916 Speaker 1: you'll have a nice sort of comforting, soothing chorus of chirping. Actually, 231 00:12:40,956 --> 00:12:43,356 Speaker 1: a group of crickets is called an orchestra, which is 232 00:12:43,356 --> 00:12:47,036 Speaker 1: why we've named our facility here in the orchestra. Okay, 233 00:12:48,636 --> 00:12:50,476 Speaker 1: tell me about the place where you're sitting right now. 234 00:12:50,516 --> 00:12:53,116 Speaker 1: Where are you talking to me from? Our facility is 235 00:12:53,196 --> 00:12:57,436 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty thousand square foot mostly factory with 236 00:12:57,556 --> 00:13:01,956 Speaker 1: a headquarter office component, and it is the world's largest 237 00:13:02,556 --> 00:13:08,436 Speaker 1: fully automated cricket production facility, largest fully So does that 238 00:13:08,476 --> 00:13:12,796 Speaker 1: mean there's a big not fully automated cricket production facility. No, 239 00:13:12,956 --> 00:13:16,276 Speaker 1: it doesn't. This is just a very comprehensive description. It 240 00:13:16,356 --> 00:13:18,476 Speaker 1: is the largest cricket farm and it also holds the 241 00:13:18,516 --> 00:13:21,116 Speaker 1: record of largest automated cricket farm. It also holds the 242 00:13:21,156 --> 00:13:24,436 Speaker 1: world record farm. So you're talking to me from the 243 00:13:24,476 --> 00:13:27,676 Speaker 1: biggest cricket farm ever in the history of the universe. Well, 244 00:13:27,676 --> 00:13:30,716 Speaker 1: I don't know about the universe, but certainly planet Earth. Good, 245 00:13:30,956 --> 00:13:36,796 Speaker 1: good point. And when did it open? And we began 246 00:13:36,996 --> 00:13:42,676 Speaker 1: production this past month. Cricket number one arrived this month, correct? 247 00:13:43,436 --> 00:13:45,756 Speaker 1: And when are you going to get to cricket whatever 248 00:13:45,836 --> 00:13:49,156 Speaker 1: one billion? Yeah, later this year, towards the end of 249 00:13:49,196 --> 00:13:52,116 Speaker 1: the year. Okay, just because the crickets have to make 250 00:13:52,116 --> 00:13:54,596 Speaker 1: more crickets. Is that what happens? Right? That's right. So 251 00:13:54,636 --> 00:13:57,196 Speaker 1: a single female will lay somewhere between one hundred to 252 00:13:57,236 --> 00:14:00,716 Speaker 1: two hundred eggs per week. So the reproductivity of the 253 00:14:00,716 --> 00:14:02,916 Speaker 1: crickets is pretty remarkable, and the rate at which we 254 00:14:02,956 --> 00:14:06,316 Speaker 1: will grow will be quite exponential. So let's talk about 255 00:14:06,316 --> 00:14:10,276 Speaker 1: this factory like, are there are there sort of tricks 256 00:14:10,356 --> 00:14:14,116 Speaker 1: or efficiencies you're gaining or is it just more crickets? 257 00:14:14,396 --> 00:14:16,436 Speaker 1: You know, you can ten x the amount of crickets, 258 00:14:16,436 --> 00:14:17,996 Speaker 1: and you don't have to ten x the amount of staff. 259 00:14:18,036 --> 00:14:21,516 Speaker 1: And therefore it's just basic simple economy of scale. There's 260 00:14:21,516 --> 00:14:24,436 Speaker 1: a combination of the two. Let's do this. Tell me 261 00:14:24,556 --> 00:14:28,596 Speaker 1: the story at this new fancy, biggest ever cricket factor 262 00:14:28,716 --> 00:14:31,796 Speaker 1: you have, like start with what an eggs? At the 263 00:14:31,916 --> 00:14:33,676 Speaker 1: right place to start? If we start with an egg, 264 00:14:34,356 --> 00:14:38,196 Speaker 1: or maybe with the mother laying an egg, wherever you 265 00:14:38,196 --> 00:14:40,436 Speaker 1: want to start, start at the beginning and end with 266 00:14:40,476 --> 00:14:44,036 Speaker 1: somebody eating cricket. Sure, how does that story go? Yeah? 267 00:14:44,076 --> 00:14:46,396 Speaker 1: So sure. So the way it works is you have 268 00:14:46,556 --> 00:14:50,556 Speaker 1: our breeder totes. So we have these bins in the 269 00:14:50,596 --> 00:14:54,756 Speaker 1: facility that are dedicated to crickets that are sexually mature 270 00:14:54,836 --> 00:14:58,516 Speaker 1: and will mate. And then effectively, the females will deposit 271 00:14:58,556 --> 00:15:01,676 Speaker 1: their eggs into a substrate. That substrate will be incubated 272 00:15:02,036 --> 00:15:03,836 Speaker 1: and then slow down a little I want to slow 273 00:15:03,876 --> 00:15:05,356 Speaker 1: down a little bit. So you have a breeder You 274 00:15:05,436 --> 00:15:08,876 Speaker 1: called it a tote, like, yes, think of it as 275 00:15:08,876 --> 00:15:11,836 Speaker 1: a in the size of a palette. Okay, so like 276 00:15:12,316 --> 00:15:15,076 Speaker 1: a shipping palette. Yeah, like a shipping a box. That's 277 00:15:15,156 --> 00:15:17,316 Speaker 1: that's a pretty large box the size of a palette 278 00:15:17,476 --> 00:15:19,596 Speaker 1: and that's the single unit that we move around in 279 00:15:19,596 --> 00:15:22,156 Speaker 1: the building. Think of that as like the housing unit 280 00:15:22,356 --> 00:15:25,836 Speaker 1: for a certain population of crickets multiplied by you know, 281 00:15:26,356 --> 00:15:28,876 Speaker 1: many thousands of these touts in the facility, and the 282 00:15:28,916 --> 00:15:31,396 Speaker 1: total of that is the total population of crickets. And 283 00:15:31,716 --> 00:15:34,356 Speaker 1: so your crickets live in these boxes. And so you 284 00:15:34,396 --> 00:15:39,356 Speaker 1: have sure some with with crickets that are breeding and 285 00:15:39,396 --> 00:15:41,916 Speaker 1: they lay eggs, and they lay eggs and then those 286 00:15:41,956 --> 00:15:45,236 Speaker 1: eggs are incubated and then they hatch. The newly hatched 287 00:15:45,236 --> 00:15:47,636 Speaker 1: crickets are called pinheads, and that's because they are so 288 00:15:47,636 --> 00:15:50,596 Speaker 1: small they could literally fit on the tip of a pen. Okay, 289 00:15:50,916 --> 00:15:53,476 Speaker 1: how many crickets grow up in in a bidden Yeah, 290 00:15:53,476 --> 00:15:56,876 Speaker 1: approximately thirty thousand are in each bin. Thirty thousand, okay. 291 00:15:57,756 --> 00:16:01,396 Speaker 1: Um And those bins will now have food and water 292 00:16:01,516 --> 00:16:04,276 Speaker 1: and all of the requirements that the crickets are going 293 00:16:04,316 --> 00:16:06,516 Speaker 1: to need for the thirty day period in which they 294 00:16:06,516 --> 00:16:10,316 Speaker 1: are going to be housed in this umility until they 295 00:16:10,316 --> 00:16:12,076 Speaker 1: are ready to be harvested. So, in other words, you're 296 00:16:12,076 --> 00:16:15,116 Speaker 1: putting everything the crickets need that is fully sufficient for 297 00:16:15,156 --> 00:16:17,716 Speaker 1: that thirty d period. You're sealing and closing the lid 298 00:16:18,276 --> 00:16:22,076 Speaker 1: and effectively not touching or interfering with or in any 299 00:16:22,156 --> 00:16:24,596 Speaker 1: way interrupting this process for thirty days. You come at 300 00:16:24,596 --> 00:16:26,476 Speaker 1: the end of thirty days, and in that thirty days 301 00:16:27,276 --> 00:16:30,076 Speaker 1: crickets grow about eight hundred times their body weight. That's 302 00:16:30,076 --> 00:16:32,316 Speaker 1: the equivalent of a human baby growing to become a 303 00:16:32,396 --> 00:16:36,516 Speaker 1: t rex in thirty days. So you have at the 304 00:16:36,596 --> 00:16:38,756 Speaker 1: end of thirty days now these crickets that have reached 305 00:16:38,796 --> 00:16:42,156 Speaker 1: adult size, and you harvest them the way we harvest 306 00:16:42,196 --> 00:16:45,316 Speaker 1: the crickets as we actually freeze them. So okay, that's 307 00:16:45,356 --> 00:16:48,276 Speaker 1: the process of how you raise the crickets. And the 308 00:16:48,476 --> 00:16:51,276 Speaker 1: point of building this big factory and of using the 309 00:16:51,316 --> 00:16:54,356 Speaker 1: plastic toads and everything else is to bring down the 310 00:16:54,516 --> 00:16:58,756 Speaker 1: cost of crickets. Right, So let's talk about cost. What 311 00:16:58,996 --> 00:17:04,036 Speaker 1: is I don't know, what is a pound of crickets cost? Yeah? Sure, So, 312 00:17:04,556 --> 00:17:08,716 Speaker 1: typically speaking, crickets are purchased as either a powder or 313 00:17:08,796 --> 00:17:12,636 Speaker 1: in a raw material form a powder in powder form 314 00:17:12,716 --> 00:17:14,636 Speaker 1: that we would take about let's say four pounds of 315 00:17:14,676 --> 00:17:18,596 Speaker 1: crickets to produce one pound of cricket powder. Right, So 316 00:17:18,836 --> 00:17:22,236 Speaker 1: today a pound of cricket powder will sell for about 317 00:17:22,356 --> 00:17:25,436 Speaker 1: call it somewhere between fifteen to twenty dollars per pound 318 00:17:25,596 --> 00:17:28,916 Speaker 1: of powder. Okay, okay, So if it's four pounds of 319 00:17:28,916 --> 00:17:31,916 Speaker 1: crickets to make that powder, that means even just a 320 00:17:32,436 --> 00:17:35,316 Speaker 1: pound of plane crickets is still more expensive than a 321 00:17:35,316 --> 00:17:38,996 Speaker 1: pound of like chicken, absolutely, and that price is largely 322 00:17:39,036 --> 00:17:43,556 Speaker 1: based on the scale challenge that this industry has had. Now, 323 00:17:43,596 --> 00:17:46,636 Speaker 1: as you scale up and you introduce more automation, your 324 00:17:46,756 --> 00:17:50,436 Speaker 1: cost per unitive production starts to dramatically drop, and the 325 00:17:50,436 --> 00:17:53,316 Speaker 1: more you scale, the more efficient your costs are overtime. 326 00:17:53,436 --> 00:17:56,596 Speaker 1: So for us, the premise always has been that if 327 00:17:56,596 --> 00:18:00,276 Speaker 1: you look at the math like on paper, if crickets 328 00:18:00,356 --> 00:18:04,836 Speaker 1: use less land, less water, less energy, less food, then 329 00:18:05,276 --> 00:18:08,156 Speaker 1: really the inputs that are typically the largest driver of 330 00:18:08,236 --> 00:18:10,716 Speaker 1: cost when it comes to livestock production, if they are 331 00:18:10,796 --> 00:18:13,556 Speaker 1: much lower for crickets, then therefore crickets should be much 332 00:18:13,636 --> 00:18:16,876 Speaker 1: less expensive. It's pretty simple math. The reason they're not 333 00:18:17,036 --> 00:18:20,116 Speaker 1: is because the scale at which you're producing crickets today 334 00:18:20,156 --> 00:18:22,676 Speaker 1: is so small and your labor cost per unit is 335 00:18:22,716 --> 00:18:25,596 Speaker 1: so high that obviously your price is quite significant. This 336 00:18:25,676 --> 00:18:28,796 Speaker 1: is why this facility that we've just built is such 337 00:18:28,836 --> 00:18:31,276 Speaker 1: a massive step, because we are going to be able 338 00:18:31,316 --> 00:18:34,876 Speaker 1: to dramatically increase the affordability of our crickets within the 339 00:18:34,916 --> 00:18:38,236 Speaker 1: next twelve months. And to put that in perspective, you know, 340 00:18:38,276 --> 00:18:40,596 Speaker 1: if a pound of cricket powder today sells for about 341 00:18:40,636 --> 00:18:44,156 Speaker 1: twenty dollars, within the next twelve months, it'll drop below 342 00:18:44,196 --> 00:18:47,876 Speaker 1: ten dollars, and we anticipate that within the next three 343 00:18:47,916 --> 00:18:50,156 Speaker 1: to five years we will actually be close to the 344 00:18:50,196 --> 00:18:54,316 Speaker 1: five dollars per pound mark. You seem confident in those 345 00:18:54,756 --> 00:18:58,356 Speaker 1: in those predictions. So you're saying the price a year 346 00:18:58,356 --> 00:19:01,956 Speaker 1: from now is going to be half what it is today. Yes, 347 00:19:03,916 --> 00:19:07,236 Speaker 1: how do you know? How do I know? The reason 348 00:19:07,276 --> 00:19:09,676 Speaker 1: I know is because you look at what is driving 349 00:19:09,716 --> 00:19:11,956 Speaker 1: the cost today of twenty dollars per pound, because you 350 00:19:11,996 --> 00:19:18,756 Speaker 1: know you're lost yet granularly, So there's two reasons you're 351 00:19:18,836 --> 00:19:23,236 Speaker 1: expecting the price of crickets to fall in half in 352 00:19:23,276 --> 00:19:25,916 Speaker 1: the next year and what in half again a few 353 00:19:25,996 --> 00:19:29,116 Speaker 1: years after that? Basically is that right? If I understand it. 354 00:19:29,196 --> 00:19:31,996 Speaker 1: One is just scale. You just have a really big 355 00:19:32,036 --> 00:19:36,116 Speaker 1: factory now and it's more efficient, fewer dollars of labor 356 00:19:36,316 --> 00:19:43,436 Speaker 1: per cricket. Two, you're just getting better at raising crickets. 357 00:19:43,436 --> 00:19:45,516 Speaker 1: You're getting figuring out how to be more efficient. Is 358 00:19:45,516 --> 00:19:49,116 Speaker 1: that right? Yes, we gather. We will be gathering about 359 00:19:49,156 --> 00:19:53,396 Speaker 1: thirty million data points every single day on everything like temperature, humidity, 360 00:19:53,476 --> 00:19:56,436 Speaker 1: light intensity, sound, pressure, and understanding how each one of 361 00:19:56,436 --> 00:19:58,436 Speaker 1: those things maps to growth. So if I see a 362 00:19:58,436 --> 00:20:01,476 Speaker 1: certain cluster of touts in my orbins in my facility, 363 00:20:01,836 --> 00:20:04,076 Speaker 1: that I see a five percent increase in yield compared 364 00:20:04,116 --> 00:20:06,396 Speaker 1: to a different control, and I look at the underlying 365 00:20:06,476 --> 00:20:08,676 Speaker 1: data and what was actually happening in each bin. A. 366 00:20:09,316 --> 00:20:10,996 Speaker 1: I know what this is happening in each bind because 367 00:20:10,996 --> 00:20:13,036 Speaker 1: I'm capturing that data, and B I can look at 368 00:20:13,036 --> 00:20:15,916 Speaker 1: the nuances of what those differences are and then immediately 369 00:20:15,956 --> 00:20:18,716 Speaker 1: set that new baseline. When we first started, I think 370 00:20:18,756 --> 00:20:21,076 Speaker 1: we were getting so out of thirty thousand crickets, we 371 00:20:21,076 --> 00:20:24,796 Speaker 1: were getting maybe something like two pounds of yield. You 372 00:20:24,916 --> 00:20:26,956 Speaker 1: got a box full of crickets, a box of thirty 373 00:20:26,956 --> 00:20:30,236 Speaker 1: thousand cickets, thirty thousand baby pinhead crickets, and by the 374 00:20:30,316 --> 00:20:33,716 Speaker 1: end of a month you get two pounds. Okay, now 375 00:20:33,836 --> 00:20:38,956 Speaker 1: we're close to twenty pounds per bin and that and 376 00:20:39,076 --> 00:20:43,556 Speaker 1: what was Is it because of more of the crickets 377 00:20:43,556 --> 00:20:46,556 Speaker 1: are surviving? Now? Is it because they're bigger, is it 378 00:20:46,676 --> 00:20:50,116 Speaker 1: something a combination of the above. So figuring out, for example, 379 00:20:50,116 --> 00:20:52,716 Speaker 1: what is the optimal feed where do you ideally place 380 00:20:52,796 --> 00:20:55,316 Speaker 1: the feed because a pinhead cricket is so small, So 381 00:20:55,356 --> 00:20:57,676 Speaker 1: even like the particle size of the feed matters. If 382 00:20:57,676 --> 00:21:00,236 Speaker 1: you have your feed is not crushed into a certain 383 00:21:00,276 --> 00:21:02,676 Speaker 1: particle size, it may be difficult for the crickets to 384 00:21:02,716 --> 00:21:05,436 Speaker 1: eat it. Water water access right when they're When you 385 00:21:05,436 --> 00:21:07,196 Speaker 1: have a cricket the size of the tip of a pen, 386 00:21:07,356 --> 00:21:09,836 Speaker 1: it can literally drown in a drop of water. So 387 00:21:09,836 --> 00:21:11,916 Speaker 1: how do you ensure that it can drink water in 388 00:21:11,916 --> 00:21:14,676 Speaker 1: that very fragile state in its early days and still 389 00:21:14,716 --> 00:21:17,116 Speaker 1: be able to access water when it gets older and larger? 390 00:21:17,356 --> 00:21:19,556 Speaker 1: And how do you optimize the number of crickets? Wait, 391 00:21:19,876 --> 00:21:22,636 Speaker 1: what's the answer to the water one? How do you 392 00:21:22,756 --> 00:21:26,236 Speaker 1: do that? That's a trade secret? Is it really is 393 00:21:26,396 --> 00:21:29,996 Speaker 1: a cricket trade secret? It actually is a cricket trade secret? Yeah, 394 00:21:31,196 --> 00:21:33,036 Speaker 1: So like is the end? Can you tell me what 395 00:21:33,316 --> 00:21:35,396 Speaker 1: what's going on inside the bin? Or it's like that's 396 00:21:35,396 --> 00:21:38,436 Speaker 1: a literal black box, Well it is. It is in 397 00:21:38,556 --> 00:21:41,076 Speaker 1: many ways of black box because that's ultimately when you 398 00:21:41,116 --> 00:21:43,316 Speaker 1: think about all of the intellectual property of the company. 399 00:21:43,316 --> 00:21:45,516 Speaker 1: It kind of comes down to not just what you 400 00:21:45,556 --> 00:21:47,316 Speaker 1: have in the bin and where it's placed, but also 401 00:21:47,876 --> 00:21:49,996 Speaker 1: what there are the decisions around how you've done that. 402 00:21:50,036 --> 00:21:51,996 Speaker 1: So I think if you look at the major difference 403 00:21:51,996 --> 00:21:53,916 Speaker 1: between what we've done and what we've learned compared to 404 00:21:53,996 --> 00:21:56,996 Speaker 1: virtually any other cricket farming operation in the world, and 405 00:21:57,036 --> 00:21:59,916 Speaker 1: there is quite a few the differences. We are the 406 00:21:59,956 --> 00:22:04,556 Speaker 1: only cricket farming operation that has devised a successful way 407 00:22:04,796 --> 00:22:08,236 Speaker 1: of farming crickets in a fully enclosed bin, and that 408 00:22:08,276 --> 00:22:10,196 Speaker 1: allows you to do so many interesting things. Now you 409 00:22:10,196 --> 00:22:12,356 Speaker 1: can stack the bins. Now you can have a lot 410 00:22:12,356 --> 00:22:15,236 Speaker 1: more efficient packing in your facility, the way you're moving 411 00:22:15,236 --> 00:22:18,516 Speaker 1: it around, and presumably it makes it super scalable because 412 00:22:18,756 --> 00:22:21,076 Speaker 1: you just close the box and go away for a 413 00:22:21,116 --> 00:22:24,436 Speaker 1: month and come back exactly. And also the other aspect 414 00:22:24,476 --> 00:22:27,236 Speaker 1: of scale that is crucial is you know, a lot 415 00:22:27,276 --> 00:22:29,276 Speaker 1: of startups I think get too hung up on IP 416 00:22:29,396 --> 00:22:31,036 Speaker 1: in the early days, right because you have to you 417 00:22:31,076 --> 00:22:33,236 Speaker 1: have to kind of put your elbows out and prove 418 00:22:33,276 --> 00:22:35,276 Speaker 1: why you're different, why you're so special, specifically if you 419 00:22:35,276 --> 00:22:37,796 Speaker 1: want to attract investor dollars. But as you get as 420 00:22:37,796 --> 00:22:39,316 Speaker 1: you grow up as a company and you want to 421 00:22:39,356 --> 00:22:42,636 Speaker 1: scale up. Actually it becomes a disadvantage for too many 422 00:22:42,636 --> 00:22:45,476 Speaker 1: things to be customed because it's very hard to modularize. 423 00:22:45,476 --> 00:22:48,316 Speaker 1: It's very hard to scale. Ideally in our case, when 424 00:22:48,356 --> 00:22:50,836 Speaker 1: we focus all of our ip on what's happening inside 425 00:22:50,836 --> 00:22:53,916 Speaker 1: the bin, now we can make everything else off the shelf, 426 00:22:53,996 --> 00:22:56,236 Speaker 1: right the factory conveying systems or off the shelf, because 427 00:22:56,556 --> 00:22:58,956 Speaker 1: the unit of the bin is a palette, and we 428 00:22:59,076 --> 00:23:02,876 Speaker 1: universally know how to move palettes around inside warehouses, inside factories. 429 00:23:03,076 --> 00:23:05,116 Speaker 1: So that allows you to take advantage of so many 430 00:23:05,236 --> 00:23:09,556 Speaker 1: already proven, already you know, de risk technologies and to 431 00:23:09,676 --> 00:23:12,396 Speaker 1: focus your core competency on the thing you know best, 432 00:23:12,436 --> 00:23:14,996 Speaker 1: which is what's actually happening inside these bibs. So, in 433 00:23:15,036 --> 00:23:17,556 Speaker 1: a sense, outside the bin, it's just a generic factory 434 00:23:17,556 --> 00:23:20,116 Speaker 1: and you can use all the generic factory technology that 435 00:23:20,156 --> 00:23:23,636 Speaker 1: already exists. Yeah, it's a super super cool factory. Hopefully 436 00:23:23,636 --> 00:23:26,356 Speaker 1: you'll visit one day. And robots got like robots driving 437 00:23:26,356 --> 00:23:28,556 Speaker 1: them around and yeah, yeah, lots and lots of robotics, 438 00:23:28,676 --> 00:23:32,076 Speaker 1: lots of robotics, lots of you know, factory conveyance. That's 439 00:23:32,076 --> 00:23:35,196 Speaker 1: a fully automated sensors, computer vision, that sort of thing. 440 00:23:35,636 --> 00:23:40,116 Speaker 1: So you had this original idea of basically bringing down 441 00:23:40,156 --> 00:23:43,036 Speaker 1: the price of crickets for people in places where people 442 00:23:43,036 --> 00:23:48,676 Speaker 1: already eat crickets. You still working on that, yes, So 443 00:23:48,796 --> 00:23:51,836 Speaker 1: for us, that's the that's the North compass. The problem 444 00:23:51,956 --> 00:23:53,876 Speaker 1: we found when we did the math in the early 445 00:23:53,956 --> 00:23:57,316 Speaker 1: days is to profitably sell crickets to a single of 446 00:23:57,356 --> 00:24:00,716 Speaker 1: mother of three children in Kumasi, Ghana, you have to 447 00:24:00,756 --> 00:24:05,876 Speaker 1: have an unbelievably tight operating cost structure, and we're not 448 00:24:05,916 --> 00:24:08,796 Speaker 1: even there yet with this facility. So what we eat, 449 00:24:08,836 --> 00:24:11,316 Speaker 1: what were my view and my vision long term is 450 00:24:11,316 --> 00:24:14,116 Speaker 1: that within the next five years we will finally hit 451 00:24:14,156 --> 00:24:17,076 Speaker 1: the cost floor that allows us to now be able 452 00:24:17,116 --> 00:24:20,596 Speaker 1: to build a facility at scale in the Middle East, 453 00:24:20,596 --> 00:24:23,036 Speaker 1: in Africa to actually meet the demand in some of 454 00:24:23,036 --> 00:24:25,556 Speaker 1: these markets. And what's really heartening is we actually received 455 00:24:25,596 --> 00:24:27,876 Speaker 1: an investment at the end of last year from a 456 00:24:27,876 --> 00:24:32,156 Speaker 1: fairly large Korean food and beverage company that is interested 457 00:24:32,156 --> 00:24:35,156 Speaker 1: in building out a factory in Korea that distributes to 458 00:24:35,196 --> 00:24:38,316 Speaker 1: many parts of Asia and where the ultimate objective there 459 00:24:38,436 --> 00:24:40,716 Speaker 1: is to address food security and to meet the nutrition 460 00:24:40,796 --> 00:24:44,276 Speaker 1: requirements of populations but profitably doing so. And that's when 461 00:24:44,316 --> 00:24:46,196 Speaker 1: we began to drip. And how much does the cost 462 00:24:46,236 --> 00:24:48,276 Speaker 1: of cricket production have to fall for it to be 463 00:24:48,316 --> 00:24:53,236 Speaker 1: a real protein food source for people in the developing world? 464 00:24:54,196 --> 00:24:56,756 Speaker 1: I would say it would have to drop another thirty 465 00:24:56,796 --> 00:24:59,196 Speaker 1: to forty percent from where we are today. Okay, And 466 00:24:59,996 --> 00:25:01,436 Speaker 1: how long is it going to take you to do that? 467 00:25:02,796 --> 00:25:05,196 Speaker 1: I am optimistic within the next five years will be there. 468 00:25:07,396 --> 00:25:10,876 Speaker 1: I love it when stuff gets cheaper. In a minute, 469 00:25:10,996 --> 00:25:13,996 Speaker 1: the Lightning round, we have lots of questions about bugs. 470 00:25:21,236 --> 00:25:23,356 Speaker 1: That's the end of the ads. Now we're going back 471 00:25:23,396 --> 00:25:27,316 Speaker 1: to the show. Let's do the Lightning round. Let's just 472 00:25:27,396 --> 00:25:34,876 Speaker 1: do ask questions. Okay, indeed, um, first insect? I ate? Sure? 473 00:25:35,396 --> 00:25:37,596 Speaker 1: You want to do that one? You could ask me sure? 474 00:25:38,796 --> 00:25:41,396 Speaker 1: How about what was the last time what was the 475 00:25:41,436 --> 00:25:44,996 Speaker 1: last time you ate an insect? This weekend? Cricket powder 476 00:25:45,036 --> 00:25:49,636 Speaker 1: in my pancake makes with kids. Does it even taste 477 00:25:49,636 --> 00:25:52,716 Speaker 1: different or is it just like pancakes with protein. It 478 00:25:52,756 --> 00:25:55,316 Speaker 1: doesn't taste any different. Crickets taste like what they eat. 479 00:25:55,356 --> 00:25:57,556 Speaker 1: And so you have this very very kind of mild 480 00:25:57,916 --> 00:26:01,276 Speaker 1: flavor that's kind of corn in it, and it's odor 481 00:26:01,276 --> 00:26:03,596 Speaker 1: and texture, and we blend it with flour. Doesn't you 482 00:26:03,916 --> 00:26:08,716 Speaker 1: can't tell any difference. Um, you're tired of the sound 483 00:26:08,756 --> 00:26:12,476 Speaker 1: crickets make? No, I'm not. You like it? You like 484 00:26:12,516 --> 00:26:17,076 Speaker 1: it still? Yeah, it's it's souping sound. Can you make it? 485 00:26:17,276 --> 00:26:21,116 Speaker 1: I can't know, and if I did, it would not 486 00:26:21,156 --> 00:26:28,436 Speaker 1: be seething. Why do you think is the most underrated insect? 487 00:26:32,796 --> 00:26:36,156 Speaker 1: I'd probably say ants. I think I think bees get 488 00:26:36,196 --> 00:26:40,076 Speaker 1: a lot of credit, but but ants have an unbelievable 489 00:26:40,196 --> 00:26:44,596 Speaker 1: role they play ecologically to sustain our ecosystems. Um. And 490 00:26:44,756 --> 00:26:47,036 Speaker 1: I'm just amazed at how powerful they are relative to 491 00:26:47,076 --> 00:26:50,596 Speaker 1: their body size and the way they can act in concert. Right, 492 00:26:50,636 --> 00:26:53,596 Speaker 1: the way they can act in concert. Yeah, as a team, 493 00:26:53,636 --> 00:26:56,476 Speaker 1: the teamwork is just for me personally. I can't get 494 00:26:56,556 --> 00:27:02,196 Speaker 1: enough of ants. What's your second favorite insect after crickets? Um, 495 00:27:02,276 --> 00:27:07,436 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed I really enjoyed palm leavel larva in Ghana. 496 00:27:07,996 --> 00:27:10,916 Speaker 1: Very tasty. How do you just eat them? How do 497 00:27:10,956 --> 00:27:12,996 Speaker 1: you eat them? It's like you skewer them on a 498 00:27:12,996 --> 00:27:16,276 Speaker 1: shish kebab and then you consume it no differently than 499 00:27:16,316 --> 00:27:18,356 Speaker 1: you would like a chicken shish kebab or a beef 500 00:27:18,396 --> 00:27:20,316 Speaker 1: like you added to a stew or rice or with 501 00:27:20,716 --> 00:27:23,356 Speaker 1: a pieta bread or something like that and or gelaf rice. 502 00:27:23,396 --> 00:27:27,196 Speaker 1: In that case, it was very tasty. If everything goes well, 503 00:27:27,356 --> 00:27:29,836 Speaker 1: what's a problem you'll be trying to solve in five years. 504 00:27:30,156 --> 00:27:33,636 Speaker 1: There's over one million species of insects in the world 505 00:27:33,636 --> 00:27:36,596 Speaker 1: that have been identified, and I believe every insect is 506 00:27:36,636 --> 00:27:42,076 Speaker 1: a source of some natural superpower raw material. We've happened 507 00:27:42,116 --> 00:27:44,996 Speaker 1: to match crickets to protein. We know that honeys and 508 00:27:45,116 --> 00:27:48,596 Speaker 1: bee and silkworms and silk. Imagine all the other raw 509 00:27:48,596 --> 00:27:50,476 Speaker 1: materials and all the other insects that are yet to 510 00:27:50,476 --> 00:27:53,676 Speaker 1: be discovered once you know how to produce them at scale. Well, 511 00:27:53,716 --> 00:27:56,596 Speaker 1: what's give me one or two that are on your 512 00:27:56,596 --> 00:27:59,436 Speaker 1: short list, then I'll tell you what. There's a specific 513 00:27:59,476 --> 00:28:03,396 Speaker 1: species of insect that has been shown and has shown 514 00:28:03,476 --> 00:28:08,956 Speaker 1: very promising potential to actually biodegrade pet plastic in other words, 515 00:28:09,236 --> 00:28:12,916 Speaker 1: literally eats plastic and produces glycola on the other end. 516 00:28:13,236 --> 00:28:20,636 Speaker 1: That's very exciting. Muhammad Ashure is the co founder and 517 00:28:20,796 --> 00:28:25,076 Speaker 1: CEO of Aspire. Today's show was produced by Edith Russolo, 518 00:28:25,276 --> 00:28:28,716 Speaker 1: engineered by Amanda ka Wong and edited by Robert Smith. 519 00:28:29,196 --> 00:28:31,396 Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Goldstein and we'll be back next week with 520 00:28:31,476 --> 00:28:38,556 Speaker 1: another episode of What's Your Problem.