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Speaker 1: In the spring of nineteen ninety six, Antoine Qby, a

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Speaker 1: rising basketball start from the sumburbs of Chicago, had a

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Speaker 1: bright future with offers to play college ball as well

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Speaker 1: as professional basketball abroad.

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Speaker 2: One night, his friend Jeremy.

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Speaker 1: Bruder asked him to accompany him to a part of

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Speaker 1: town that Antoine knew well for a hookup on some

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Speaker 1: new tires and rims. Antoine's friend's younger brother, Kevin Jackson,

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Speaker 1: asked if he could tag along and get a ride

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Speaker 1: to the liquor store. While waiting for Jeremy's contact at

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Speaker 1: the tire shop, Antoine received.

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Speaker 2: A phone call from a girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: While they spoke about their plans to meet up later,

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Speaker 1: Kevin Jackson and Jeremy Bruder went out of Antoine's sight

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Speaker 1: and gunshots rang out. Antoine didn't know who had fired

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Speaker 1: the shots, but Kevin came racing back to the car,

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Speaker 1: telling him to drive. When Antoine began to drive to safety,

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Speaker 1: he noticed Jeremy struggling to survive. He stopped the car,

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Speaker 1: demanding answers from Kevin and began to walk back over

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Speaker 1: to the tire shop when police arrived. I think that

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Speaker 1: the field report logging the inventory of Antoine's patdown would

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Speaker 1: match the inventory of items locked when he arrived at

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Speaker 1: oak Park PD, that the officer unseen could not have

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Speaker 1: possibly missed a large wat of bills alleged.

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Speaker 2: To belong to Jeremy Bruder.

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Speaker 1: One would think you might also believe that a teenager

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Speaker 1: might not need medical attention after a night spent in

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Speaker 1: the interrogation room. We'd certainly hope so. But this is

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Speaker 1: wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. Today, we have

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Speaker 1: a story from oak Park, Illinois. Now this is a

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Speaker 1: nice suburb just outside of Chicago, but still within the

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Speaker 1: limits of Cook County, and unfortunately for our guests today,

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Speaker 1: this story features a lot of the hallmarks of Chicago

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Speaker 1: style Mode for Conviction. At QB had and still has

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Speaker 1: so much athletic and intellectual talent, but the time and

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Speaker 1: opportunity for him to excel at life was robbed from him.

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Speaker 1: He joins us from Stateville Penitentiary. Antoine, Welcome to ron

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Speaker 1: for Conviction.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. I appreciate you having me.

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Speaker 1: And we appreciate you being here, even though I hate

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Speaker 1: the reason why you're here in the first place. And

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Speaker 1: with him today is his attorney from Riley's Safer Homes

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Speaker 1: at Kencilla. You might recall that firm, of course, from

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Speaker 1: a previous guest, Ron Safer. Well, this is Joe Harrah's

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Speaker 1: first appearance, and we hope it's not the last.

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Speaker 2: So Joe, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 4: Jason, thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: All right, so let's start out in the usual place

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Speaker 2: by getting to know Antoine.

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Speaker 3: A bit well. Originally from the South Side, the far

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Speaker 3: south side of Chicago and Argue of Guards Project. That's

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Speaker 3: originally where my mother, Darlene Qby's from and her side

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Speaker 3: of the family. My father, he's from the West Side

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Speaker 3: of Chicago. They separated not so long after my birth.

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Speaker 3: My mother was able to get us out of the projects,

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Speaker 3: and eventually, you know, she also made sacrifices to get

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Speaker 3: us to the suburbs, which was oh Park, until we

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Speaker 3: eventually ended up moving to the further west suburbs, which

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Speaker 3: was Westmont. Went to school, stay active in sports, had

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Speaker 3: a lot of friends, never really got in any trouble.

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Speaker 3: You know. I fell in love with the game of basketball.

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Speaker 3: I think that's what mostly kept me out of trouble

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Speaker 3: all those years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the elephant in the room is that you were

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Speaker 1: an amazing basketball player, like you had that thing right.

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Speaker 1: High schools were checking you out in junior high colleges

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Speaker 1: were scouting you out as early as your freshman year,

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Speaker 1: like you had that kind of special talent.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I was a starter on the varsity all four years.

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Speaker 3: I was All Conference, All Area, All State, All American,

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Speaker 3: got nominated to the All American McDonald's Game scholarships to

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Speaker 3: go to college, I didn't. I couldn't complain. I couldn't

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Speaker 3: complain during those times. You know. Unfortunately, you know that

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Speaker 3: opportunity had taken from me. But during that time, it

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Speaker 3: was very promising. You know.

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Speaker 4: Antoine had a great mom and a solid upbringing, and

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Speaker 4: he was a good kid, and he didn't have any

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Speaker 4: behavioral problems at all or no criminal record. He finished

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Speaker 4: his high school career in nineteen ninety six at a

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Speaker 4: school called Donners Grove South, and he had his sights

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Speaker 4: set on a variety of options, but the one that

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Speaker 4: he was really kind of most focused on was going

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Speaker 4: to the University of Illinois. He wanted to play basketball

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Speaker 4: and study business and political science. So in June of

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Speaker 4: nineteen ninety six, Antoine Koobi had pretty much everything to

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Speaker 4: look forward.

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Speaker 1: To it sounds like it, and it's ironic because your

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Speaker 1: mom got you out of Chicago, away from not only

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Speaker 1: violent crime, but also away from the Chicago PD and

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Speaker 1: their predatory practices.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen ninety six, of course.

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Speaker 1: Was just three years after Marcus Wiggins's mother won a

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Speaker 1: civil suit against the city when John Burges's Midnight crew

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Speaker 1: had beaten an electrocuted him. It was a thirteen year

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Speaker 1: old child at the time, but they tortured him into

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Speaker 1: making a false statement incriminating himself. Nineteen ninety six is

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Speaker 1: also two years before that same department made its third

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately, their first successful attempt at framing Marcus. If

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Speaker 1: you haven't heard his story, we're gonna have it linked

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Speaker 1: in the episode bio, and I hope you'll listen to it.

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Speaker 1: But what we'll see here is that oak Park PD

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Speaker 1: was still very, very capable of similar tactics, even though

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Speaker 1: the relationship with oak Park PD was a bit more

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Speaker 1: cozy with this around the community. In fact, on that note, Anteline,

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Speaker 1: you knew one of these cops before all this happened,

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Speaker 1: because oak Park PD used to sometimes provide security for

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Speaker 1: sporting events, including your basketball games.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I don't want to necessarily a security for the game,

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Speaker 3: but they would be there, their presence was there. This

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Speaker 3: one particular officer Eddie Harris, he's been knowing me since

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Speaker 3: I would say, grammar school, you know, my name was

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Speaker 3: ranking since then, and he used to do security at

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Speaker 3: the games. I remember him speaking to me from time

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Speaker 3: to time. You know, he was a black officer in

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Speaker 3: that town, and you know, he kind of stood out

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Speaker 3: amongst the rest of them.

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Speaker 1: Which puts a fine point on a dynamic at play

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Speaker 1: in this story that you and Officer Harris are just

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Speaker 1: two of the very few black people in this very

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Speaker 1: homogeneous suburb.

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Speaker 4: Well, Oak Park, It's a predominantly white suburb of Chicago.

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Speaker 4: It is very close to the city limits. It's known

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Speaker 4: as a very progressive area. I mean, the entire Chicago

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Speaker 4: area is certainly not without its racial tensions. It's obviously

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Speaker 4: also true in the suburbs of Chicago.

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Speaker 1: Right and as we see all over this country, especially

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Speaker 1: when you have a white victim and perceived black assailants,

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Speaker 1: the ham fisted police violence available in Chicago is ready

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Speaker 1: to be deployed here as well. Even with Officer Harris's

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Speaker 1: participation in your eventual prosecution. Now typically on this show,

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Speaker 1: if we're bringing up a previous relationship with the officer,

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Speaker 1: it's usually because our guests had been arrest said before,

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Speaker 1: maybe by that same officer, but you had no criminal

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Speaker 1: record whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: So here we're.

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Speaker 1: Talking about an officer who knows about your talents, and

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Speaker 1: he knew about your promising future, but he still had

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Speaker 1: no qualms about letting this wrongful conviction happen. And it

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Speaker 1: appears that his fluid relationship with the truth was what

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Speaker 1: ultimately brought his career to an end, thankfully. But before

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Speaker 1: we get to that, let's shift away from the full

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Speaker 1: grown men who were aware of you to the guys

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Speaker 1: you knew in high school. And let's start with the

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Speaker 1: Jackson's Jamie and Kevin, who also grew up in Oak Park.

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Speaker 3: Jamie is older than Kevin and I, but me and

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Speaker 3: Jamie were closer because the things that we hit in comment,

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Speaker 3: you know, especially when it came to you know, basketball

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Speaker 3: and girls and you know, things of that nature. You know,

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Speaker 3: we called each other cousins, you know, because we were

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Speaker 3: so close. Kevin never really hung around us, you know,

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Speaker 3: he was always off doing his own thing with a

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Speaker 3: different crowd of people.

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Speaker 1: So Kevin was only in your life by virtue of

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Speaker 1: his brother Jamie. But in the town O Park, if

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Speaker 1: you limit yourself to only black friends, you might not

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Speaker 1: have that many friends at all. What about Jeremy Brewder.

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Speaker 3: Me and Jeremy we were lab partners, and you know

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Speaker 3: when your lab partners, you know, you get close. You know,

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Speaker 3: you talk every day at school and eventually, you know,

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Speaker 3: it laid out of school from time to time. You know,

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Speaker 3: he would come to my house. You know, we play

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Speaker 3: video games and just hang out.

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Speaker 2: And this brings us to late spring nineteen ninety six.

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Speaker 1: You were wrapping up your senior year of high school

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Speaker 1: and about to start college in the fall, play basketball somewhere.

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Speaker 1: Who knows where life was going to take you. At

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Speaker 1: this point, you came to own a few cars, and

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Speaker 1: Jeremy Brewder had just gotten a Jeep and had taken

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Speaker 1: notice of one of your cars.

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Speaker 3: Right, I had a couple of cars, and I had

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Speaker 3: a Jeep cari key, and I had rams on mine,

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Speaker 3: and he wanted some rims because he had just got

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Speaker 3: a jeep. So, you know, Jeremy was always telling me

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Speaker 3: about a guy that he met at the car wash

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Speaker 3: where he was working at It was a guy who

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Speaker 3: was going to, you know, hook him up with some

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Speaker 3: rams and tires. He didn't tell me when, he didn't

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Speaker 3: tell me how or who the guy was. So the

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Speaker 3: conversation pretended to the rims and tires really didn't go

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Speaker 3: anywhere at that moment.

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Speaker 1: Until the faithful night of June first, nineteen ninety six,

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Speaker 1: when you were with your newborn son and his mother

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Speaker 1: at her place in Villa Park, Illinois, and you've got

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Speaker 1: a few.

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Speaker 2: Pages for people don't remember pages. That's when we used

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Speaker 2: to some people used to carry pages.

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Speaker 1: Because it before cell phones again, but you got a

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Speaker 1: few pages from an unfamiliar number.

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Speaker 3: I called the number back and it was Jeremy. He

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Speaker 3: just came up on a hookup on some rims and

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Speaker 3: tires for his jeep, and can I take him to

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Speaker 3: oh Park? At first I said no, and he begged

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Speaker 3: me to take him out there, so I said, okay.

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Speaker 1: He just wanted somebody to ride with him. So you

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Speaker 1: drove your girlfriend's car to meet up with Jeremy, and

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Speaker 1: you drove in separate cars to this tire shop in

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Speaker 1: Oak Park.

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Speaker 3: It was pitch black in there. The doors was locked,

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Speaker 3: so you know, we knocked on a door. We banged

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Speaker 3: on the window. No one came, so we walked around

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Speaker 3: to the back to the garage door and we banged

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Speaker 3: on the door. Waited a couple of minutes. He said

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Speaker 3: he was early, so I was like, okay, well, since

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Speaker 3: we're a little early, you know, we can go waste

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Speaker 3: some time. So I was like, man, we can go

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Speaker 3: to my cousin's house, which I was speaking of Jamie

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Speaker 3: in which he stayed maybe about ten minutes away in Chicago,

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Speaker 3: and you know, every weekend, you know, Jamie will throw

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Speaker 3: a get together. You know, people was always at his house.

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Speaker 3: Once we got there, Jeremy didn't want to go up,

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Speaker 3: so he stayed down. I told him I'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: And while you were upstairs, you obviously saw Jamie Jackson

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Speaker 1: and Kevin Jackson was living there at the time as well.

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Speaker 3: Kevin asked me what I was doing out there, and

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Speaker 3: I told him, you know, I came out here to

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Speaker 3: bring my friend to buy some rims and tires for

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Speaker 3: his jeep. So he asked me, do you think you

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Speaker 3: could take me to the liquor store, And I told

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Speaker 3: him I can probably take you once we're done, since

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Speaker 3: I'm on this side of town, I might as well

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Speaker 3: hang out, so yeah, you can ride with me.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: All three of you headed back to the tire shop

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Speaker 1: in your girlfriend's car.

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Speaker 3: It's the apartment building diagonal to the back of the

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Speaker 3: rim shop, so we parked facing the garage door of

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Speaker 3: the ram shop. All three of us got out. We

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Speaker 3: went back to the front of the ram shop, knocked

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Speaker 3: on a door, banged on the window, no response, so

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Speaker 3: we banged on the garage door as well. So instead

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Speaker 3: of us leaving, we just hung out for about maybe

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Speaker 3: ten fifteen minutes or so. As we're sitting there talking

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Speaker 3: and waiting, my pager goes off. It was a friend

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Speaker 3: of mine named Kia. I went back to the car

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Speaker 3: to use the phone and give her a call. I

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Speaker 3: get in the driver's seat with the door open, and

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Speaker 3: I can see Kevin and Jeremy walking towards Madison Street

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Speaker 3: to the front of the ram shop. They eventually got

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Speaker 3: out of my sight and as I'm still talking on

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Speaker 3: the phone a few seconds a minute later or a

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Speaker 3: couple of minutes later, I hear gunshots.

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Speaker 1: And I'm reading that David take it from Kia bank

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Speaker 1: right now, signed under penalty of perjury. In twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: she said, and I quote, Antoine and I were arguing

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Speaker 1: about whether we would meet up that night, and then

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Speaker 1: suddenly I heard multiple gunshots in the background. The gunshots

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Speaker 1: did not sound like they were immediately next to the phone,

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Speaker 1: and I did not hear anything said by anyone in

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Speaker 1: connection with the gunshots.

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Speaker 3: End quote.

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Speaker 1: So from the only other actual witness to some degree

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Speaker 1: to this crime, the gunshots were in the background, away

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Speaker 1: from the phone and away from Antoine.

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Speaker 2: Now what happened next?

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Speaker 3: I see Kevin running towards the car, and I'm waiting

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Speaker 3: on Jeremy to follow behind him. But Kevin jumps in

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Speaker 3: the passenger seat. He says, I got that bitch lefts go.

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Speaker 3: So I immediately start the car and I put it

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Speaker 3: in drive. As I make a left hand turn facing

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Speaker 3: Madison Street, I ride past and I see Jeremy laying

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Speaker 3: in the bushes. So once I get to Madison Street,

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Speaker 3: I immediately stop on the next block. I don't keep

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Speaker 3: going to Harlem to get on the expressway and try

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Speaker 3: and get away. I immediately pull over on the next block,

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Speaker 3: asked Kevin, like what happened? And before he had a

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Speaker 3: chance to respond, I just lost it. I don't remember

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Speaker 3: if I hit him, or if I grabbed him, or

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Speaker 3: if I I don't remember exactly what I did, but

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Speaker 3: I want to say I hit him. I can't remember.

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Speaker 3: I told him I'm going back to the scene. I'm

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Speaker 3: going back, so we get out the car. I immediately

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Speaker 3: tried to cut through someone's backyard to get straight to

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Speaker 3: the alley, and the fence was locked. I went to

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Speaker 3: the next entrance that I saw, and it was some

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Speaker 3: big green garbage cans blocking the walkway, so I just

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Speaker 3: start walking. That's when the Forest Park police initially put

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Speaker 3: the spotlight on us and told us to take our

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Speaker 3: hands out of our pocket and walk towards them, and

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Speaker 3: the Oak Park police came.

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Speaker 1: At this point, you had no idea why Kevin did

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Speaker 1: what he did. Before you even had time to work

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Speaker 1: through this scenario in your head, two police departments and

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Speaker 1: a bunch of EMTs had already shown up on the scene.

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Speaker 4: This was a congested neighborhood. There were lots of people

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Speaker 4: living in the vicinity, and the shots were easily heard,

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Speaker 4: so there were a number of call ins to the

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Speaker 4: police department. The Oak Park police start to preserve the scene,

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Speaker 4: interview witnesses and Essentially, they do everything that they need

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Speaker 4: to prosecute both Kevin Jackson and Antoine inside the first

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Speaker 4: twelve hours.

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Speaker 1: And that started with patting you down while EMTs were

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Speaker 1: working on Jeremy not too far away at the tire shop. Now, importantly,

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Speaker 1: they did not find a gun or a giant wad

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Speaker 1: of cash on you. The initial report reflects that, but

295
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Speaker 1: the placement of the giant a wad of cash mysteriously

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Speaker 1: changed later in a subsequent report. I'm sure you can

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Speaker 1: guess why. But okay, let's get back to the immediate aftermath.

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Speaker 1: Did they find the gun?

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Speaker 4: An Officer Romero actually does find a gun in a

300
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Speaker 4: garbage can. Unfortunately, he finds it in a garbage can

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Speaker 4: where the towel wrap around it and also submerged in water.

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Speaker 1: So any fingerprints, DNA, etc. From the gun were no

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Speaker 1: longer viable. What happened next.

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Speaker 3: They put me in a car and they put him

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Speaker 3: in another car. I remember them taking us back to

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Speaker 3: the scene of the current where it happened. When I

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Speaker 3: got out the car, I remember the first person in

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Speaker 3: voice that I heard was Officer Harris. He's like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: that's Antoine QB. That's the basketball star and they walked

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Speaker 3: me towards Jeremy as the pyramidics was working on them.

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Speaker 3: I guess they were trying to get him to identify me.

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Speaker 4: At this point, however, Jeremy is unconscious and is not

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Speaker 4: able to attempt to identify either Kevin or Antoine.

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Speaker 1: Now I need to point out that later on there

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Speaker 1: was a report from Officer Harris saying that Jeremy named

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Speaker 1: Antoine QB. Now, this was touted as a dying declaration,

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Speaker 1: but when the amts on the scene, the ones who

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Speaker 1: had been on the scene were asked to corroborate this

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Speaker 1: alleged dying declaration, they did not.

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Speaker 4: Interestingly, this is not from a report that Eddie Harris

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Speaker 4: prepares himself. It's from a report prepared by another police officer,

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Speaker 4: supposedly taken from an interview that occurred at three point

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Speaker 4: thirty am, which was after Kevin Jackson had been interviewed

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Speaker 4: by the police and had claimed that he had nothing

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Speaker 4: to do with this and that it was Antoine.

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Speaker 1: Right after they had figured out what the narrative of

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Speaker 1: the crime would be, this alleged dying declaration made its

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Speaker 1: first appearance, but Antoine's name had gone out over the dispatch,

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Speaker 1: so police had Antoine's name early on, perhaps from Jeremy.

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Speaker 2: However, the context.

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Speaker 1: Of how Antoine's name came out is foggy, to say

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Speaker 1: the least, but no paramedic heard or saw what Officer

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00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,359
Speaker 1: Harris later claimed the trial. That's critical or we're going

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Speaker 1: to get back to it an a bit. So back

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Speaker 1: to the scene, Jeremy was unconscious, unable to make an id.

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Speaker 3: Then what they took us on the next block for

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00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,040
Speaker 3: show up, put the spotlight on us ahead, I guess

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00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,720
Speaker 3: people in the area, and they did this two times.

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Speaker 3: Come to find out later on that no one identified

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Speaker 3: me in the two shores, but they identify Kevin both times.

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Speaker 3: After that last show up, they took us to the

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Speaker 3: police station and they automatically did a gunshot residue test

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Speaker 3: on me, and I really didn't know what that was

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Speaker 3: at the time. I know they was just swapping my hands, right.

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Speaker 2: Why would you have known?

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Speaker 1: Gunshot residue testing or GSR testing is not something on

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Speaker 1: any lay person's radar in nineteen ninety six, even not

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Speaker 1: to this day, I would say, but definitely not back

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Speaker 1: and now, at the time, it was believed that the

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Speaker 1: presence of the elements associated with gunfire could only mean

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00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,359
Speaker 1: one of three things. Either you handled a gun or

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Speaker 1: ammo fired a gun, or were in fact a gunshot victim.

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Speaker 1: Please check out our coverage of gunshot residue, unrawful conviction

354
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,800
Speaker 1: junk science with our host Josh Duben. We're going to

355
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Speaker 1: have a linked in the bio. But what is now

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Speaker 1: known is that the elements associated with gunfire can be

357
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,480
Speaker 1: deposited by a number of other accessible sources, things like

358
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,960
Speaker 1: cigarette ash, dried urine, brake pads. Not to mention, GSR

359
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,000
Speaker 1: can also be found all over police stations and in

360
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Speaker 1: police vehicles, which means you can easily get what they

361
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Speaker 1: call touch transfer just from being in sitting in the

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Speaker 1: back of a squad car something like that.

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Speaker 2: So the truth is that the only probative.

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00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 1: And useful result of a GSR test is a negative

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00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,360
Speaker 1: one in which the subject hadn't been given an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to wash their hands, which you were not. So, in

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Speaker 1: other words, without having been able to wash your hands,

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Speaker 1: the absence of any of those elements on your hands

369
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,199
Speaker 1: or clothing would have been should have ruled you out

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Speaker 1: completely as a potential shooter.

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Speaker 4: And the gun that was used to shoot Jeremy was

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Speaker 4: fired eight times. He was only hit six times, but

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Speaker 4: it was fired eight times. It was a nine millimeter handgun.

374
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 4: So they both have the gunshot residue tests administered to them. Now,

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Speaker 4: Antoine says that his hands were swabbed right away, even

376
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Speaker 4: though the police reports say that evidence wasn't collected until

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Speaker 4: after I think it was three am.

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Speaker 1: Interesting that this information was recorded around the same time

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Speaker 1: as Officer Harris's alleged statement about the uncorroborated dying declarations.

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Speaker 2: So what were the results? Now?

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Speaker 4: What's very interesting is that the police actually don't bother

382
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 4: to have these test results analyze right away. They actually

383
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 4: sit on them for two and a half months. But

384
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 4: when the results come back for Antoine, they come back

385
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 4: completely negative. So if he had this gun and he

386
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,160
Speaker 4: shot at eight times, they're not finding any of these particulates.

387
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 4: And Antoine never washed his hands before he was swabbed

388
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 4: to do the gunshot residue test, And the form is

389
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,639
Speaker 4: very specific about whether there's been washing of the hands,

390
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 4: because if the hands are washed, the test is invalid.

391
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 4: But I mean, we'll talk about this a little later.

392
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 4: But the lawyer for Antoine, George Howard, doesn't use them

393
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Speaker 4: in Antoine's defense at trial, so that's not part of

394
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,800
Speaker 4: the story. But there is another part of the story,

395
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Speaker 4: as you suggested, because the same test was performed on

396
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Speaker 4: Kevin Jackson. Now, the police report said that those tests

397
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 4: weren't done until like four hours later than Antoine's, like

398
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 4: seven in the morning. But Kevin Jackson was permitted to

399
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 4: wash his hands twice before the test, so before he

400
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,119
Speaker 4: was being fingerprinted, he washed his hands and after so

401
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,439
Speaker 4: it invalidated the test entirely. So Antoine did not wash

402
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 4: his hands. Kevin washed his hands twice, So.

403
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,120
Speaker 1: Both GSR tests came back negative. However, Antoine's was the

404
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 1: only ballid test of the two.

405
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 2: Why in the world was.

406
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: Kevin allowed to wash his hands twice before before the test?

407
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: Perhaps just a mistake, or maybe just maybe it was

408
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 1: because he agreed to trade testimony against Antoine for leniency.

409
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 1: I mean, he had everything to gain in exchange for cooperating.

410
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: And don't forget Illinois still had the death pneally at

411
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Speaker 1: the time, so he had everything at stake. And we'll

412
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Speaker 1: get to the interview process in a bit. But first, Antoine,

413
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 1: what else do you remember from your book?

414
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 3: They put me in this real skinny room. You know.

415
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 3: They took my clothes, all my belongings. They gave me

416
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 3: this real thin paper suit and shoes to put on.

417
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 3: As I was in their room and it was going

418
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 3: through the inventory, an officer came in with a brown

419
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 3: paper bag. It was a big brown paper bag and

420
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 3: he set it on top of the counter and he said, man,

421
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 3: this belongs to him as well. So when she opened

422
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 3: it up and lifted up it was a cow, the

423
00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 3: gun and some money inside of the bag. Said this

424
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 3: belongs to him too.

425
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone needs to spelled out for them,

426
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 1: but inventory should be removed from your person and logged.

427
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 1: You can't just introduce new items from Cognos where there

428
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: was already a field report done logging what had been

429
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: found on his person. And we already mentioned that the

430
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: gun in towel had been found in a trash can

431
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: by Officer Romero. Now it's just given to Antoine and

432
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Speaker 1: the money, Where the hell did that come from? Why

433
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: was that not found on Antoine during the patdown?

434
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Speaker 4: I mean it would be a key fact issue in

435
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,199
Speaker 4: a robbery case, like who has the money after the

436
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 4: robbery and the key police officer and all, this is

437
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 4: an Oak Park officer named Tesca. It was Tesca who

438
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 4: personally took custody of Antoine. The first report out from

439
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 4: the police radio is that there's been shots fired, so

440
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,199
Speaker 4: he knows there's a gun involved. He knows that he

441
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 4: has one of the kids that might have been responsible

442
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 4: for shooting the gun, so he does a full pat

443
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 4: down in the field. He finds Antoine's wallet with his

444
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 4: ID in it, but that's all. When they get back

445
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 4: to the police station, he claims that they had to

446
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 4: do another pat down, and supposedly now he finds something

447
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 4: brand new that he didn't find in the field, and

448
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 4: that is a wad of bills. It's eleven and four dollars.

449
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 4: It's eighty separate bills in a big wad. How could

450
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 4: Officer Tesca miss a wad as big as what Antoine

451
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 4: Kobe allegedly had in his right front pocket.

452
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: Now, the right front pocket is not a place you

453
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: just skim over. It's the main pocket for the majority

454
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: of humans. He's the right to the left front pocket,

455
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: and he wasn't going to miss a wad of eighty bills.

456
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 2: That's a big wad. That would cause a serious bulge.

457
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: Not only was there no wad of cash found on him,

458
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: but there was also no gun or wet towel. But

459
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: now this bag of evidence is just claimed to be antoine.

460
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:03,919
Speaker 1: So what else do you remember?

461
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 3: I remember them putting me in this cell. It was

462
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 3: I think it was right in front of the entrance door,

463
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 3: because every officer or detective that came in they stopped.

464
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 3: They banged on the door. They called me stupid, said

465
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 3: I blew my life away, and I don't know how

466
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 3: much time had passed. They came and got me out

467
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 3: of the room and put me inside of an interrogation

468
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 3: room and handcuffed me behind my back. As I sat

469
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 3: in the chair, they kept asking me, you know, so

470
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 3: what took place? And I kept telling them I just

471
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 3: want to use the phone. I was a little sarcastic

472
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 3: with them, you know, I wasn't answering that questions. I

473
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 3: told them I didn't have anything to say to them.

474
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 3: And every time they less out of the room, a

475
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 3: little while later, they'll come back, not knowing that when

476
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 3: they were going back and forth they were talking to Kevin,

477
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 3: and then they'll come and talk to me and they'll say, oh, okay, well,

478
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 3: this is what we know took place, and this is

479
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 3: what we know happened. And I told them, okay, well,

480
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 3: if you know, just let me use the phone. I

481
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 3: don't have nothing else to say to you. They did

482
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 3: this maybe like two or three times. So the last

483
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 3: time when they came in, Detective Munching and Jervison kind

484
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 3: of got frustrated with me, the detectives and they walked

485
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 3: out and I was still handcuffed in the chair. I

486
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 3: was facing the door. It was a piece of paper

487
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 3: over the window of the door, so you couldn't see in.

488
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 3: I remember the door cracking open. I could just see

489
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 3: the light from the crack, and I saw a hand

490
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 3: hit the light inside of the room. A few seconds later,

491
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 3: the door pushed open. People were like rushed in and

492
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 3: I couldn't see their faces, but I could see the

493
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 3: silhouette of them coming in. I don't know if it

494
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 3: was one or two who was behind me who was

495
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 3: holding my shoulder and arms as I sat in the chair.

496
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 3: The other ones came in. They were just hitting me

497
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 3: all over my body.

498
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.

499
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making

500
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and

501
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light

502
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,239
Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and

503
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform,

504
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and

505
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals.

506
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 3: I sat there with my head down for a while.

507
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 3: My body it was hurting. They came in with the phone,

508
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,959
Speaker 3: they said it on the desk, plugged it up, and

509
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 3: a blank piece of paper and I remember this piece

510
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 3: of paper, same time and signature, and it was like, okay,

511
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 3: this is a new protocol that we used to prove

512
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 3: that we allowed you to use the phone. We need

513
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 3: you to sign here. And he looked at his watch,

514
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 3: and when I did it, he took the phone and

515
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 3: he took the piece of paper and he walked out.

516
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 3: I didn't know if he was coming back or what.

517
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 3: I know. Sometime later, the state's attorney walked in and

518
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: then she wanted to go over my confession with me,

519
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 3: and I told her. I was like, I never made

520
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: a confession. I didn't do that made I never talked

521
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 3: to anybody. So she showed me the paper. It was

522
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 3: tight and hit my signature, and I told her I

523
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 3: didn't I didn't make this statement, and she walked out.

524
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 3: That was the last time I saw her.

525
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: So now the money and gun magically were declared to

526
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: be in your possession. They've got this piece of paper

527
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: that was born when you signed it and is now

528
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: being passed off as a signed confession. And of course

529
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: Kevin Jackson's cooperation was also working against you. Now, there

530
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: are so many things wrong with both your alleged confession

531
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: and Jackson's statement. So let's just start with what did

532
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: Kevin Jackson say.

533
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 4: Well, he says that he's recruited by Antoine to take

534
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 4: part in this robbery. You know that they go off

535
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 4: in the car together, and then because he has to

536
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 4: separate himself from the actual pulling of the trigger, he

537
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 4: says that when they're proceeding down the alley, he lags

538
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 4: behind because he has to urinate in some bushes, and

539
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 4: then he doesn't see what actually happens. But here's an

540
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 4: exchange between Antoine and Jeremy, and then he hears the

541
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 4: shots and as opposed to Kevin Jackson running back to

542
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 4: the car. It's Antoine running back to the car.

543
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: And of course, when given the opportunity to essentially right

544
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: Antoine's statement for him, they aligned some things from Antoine's

545
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: alleged statement with Kevin's to make it seem like the

546
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: two statements were corroborating one another. Liked the detail about

547
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: Kevin allegendly stopping to pee in the bushes. Now, the

548
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: police might take issue with you or Antoine saying that

549
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: this alleged confession was anything.

550
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: But above board.

551
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: But there's both no evidence that it actually is, but

552
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: rather there is evidence to the contrary.

553
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 4: There's no video, no audio recording, no stenographer, and they're

554
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 4: not even contemporaneous notes from the police officers. And we

555
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 4: know that abuse did occur.

556
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: Right Those who came to see him saw that he

557
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: got really badly beat up by the cops. And because

558
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: he was denied a phone call. The first person who

559
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: did see him was not his mother or his lawyer.

560
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 3: Mister Mack, who was my junior high basketball coach. Somehow

561
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 3: he knew I was there. They let him visit me.

562
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 3: He was okay, and I told him no, I'll start crying.

563
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 3: I was hurting. He immediately said that he's going to

564
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 3: let my mom know because no one knew where I

565
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 3: was at. When my mom and my aunt came, when

566
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 3: they saw the condition I was in, they lost it.

567
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 3: They went off on the detectives and every other police

568
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: officer they saw that was in the station, and they

569
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: told him they had to leave and that they wanted

570
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 3: to visit me. They can visit me in the county jail.

571
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: After that, I was getting transported to the county jail.

572
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 3: It was me Kevin, and there was another guy named

573
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 3: Anthony Ferguson who got arrested that night for domestic violence.

574
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 3: We were all in the paddy wagon and I just

575
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 3: start spitting up blood. Anthony Ferguson say, man, was that

576
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 3: you who I heard in the other rooms? And I

577
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 3: was like yeah. He said, man, I heard everything that

578
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 3: they've done to you. This is my name, this is

579
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 3: my number. You know, if your lawyers want to talk

580
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 3: to me, give him my information. And that was the

581
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 3: last that I heard of him until years later when

582
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: I was able to get an affidator from.

583
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: Him, and that details everything that mister Ferguson could happening

584
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: to Antoine corroborating to some degree what we've all heard here.

585
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: Now at this point, you had no idea Kevin Jackson

586
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: had flipped the situation to his advantage, and this obviously

587
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: took the heat off of Kevin Jackson.

588
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 4: Kevin Jackson was tried first under a theory that he

589
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 4: was responsible for the killings in part because he didn't

590
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 4: stop what was going on, and he actually supposedly drove

591
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 4: the getaway car, and he was sentenced to forty years

592
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 4: in prison. He is now released.

593
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: Did you know that Kevin was doing this to you?

594
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,959
Speaker 3: I didn't know this until we went to court in Maybrook, Maywood, Illinois.

595
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: I thought you were tried separately.

596
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 3: That was just a regular court date.

597
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so you were both at court for your

598
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: own proceedings. Was this his bench trial and just at

599
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: pre trial hearing for you?

600
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 3: Exactly? That was the pre trial and all the bailiffs

601
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 3: knew me. So it was one day in court and

602
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 3: his lawyer comes in to the bullpen and it's like me,

603
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: Kevin and like other guys and his lawyer because lawyer

604
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 3: is telling him, Okay, when we go in there, this

605
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 3: is what's going to happen. But he was talking so

606
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 3: low to where I really couldn't hear him. So Kevin

607
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 3: and his lawyer went out, and immediately the Bayliffs came

608
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 3: in to the bullpen. He was like, QB, he's out

609
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 3: there saying that you did this, like he had nothing

610
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 3: to do with it. So I was like, no, that's

611
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,239
Speaker 3: not true. So Kevin came back, so I asked him.

612
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 3: I say, I said, what just happened out there? And

613
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 3: he says nothing. So now it's starting to make sense.

614
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 3: Kevin saw how I said, I was getting sold. He

615
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 3: bangs on the door and he tells the baylorff that

616
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 3: he has to us to wash room, and the baylorf's

617
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 3: let him out. I never saw Kevin again until he

618
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 3: came home in twenty seventeen, at.

619
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: Which point he said he was going to give you

620
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: a sign out the David. That never came to pruation.

621
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: But Kevin never even testified at your trial. He didn't

622
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: have to confession evidence in your case. A complete fabrication

623
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: was all the state really needed.

624
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 4: This confession turns into the centerpiece of the state's case.

625
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 4: But there are a number of features of this so

626
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 4: called confession that just make it obvious that it's not

627
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 4: a trustworthy description of what actually happened. The statement reads

628
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 4: nothing like the way Antoine would talk are rite. There

629
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 4: were facts in the statement that are totally contradicted by

630
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 4: the unchallenged facts like the statement says there were four

631
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 4: shots and there were actually eight shots. There are four

632
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 4: different versions. There were parts that were totally inconsistent version

633
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 4: to version, like whose money was involved Jeremis, where is

634
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 4: it Antoine's? Whose gun was involved? Was it Jeremy's gun?

635
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 4: Did Antoine get the gun? When does Antoine actually supposedly

636
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 4: take possession of the gun before that night or does

637
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 4: it get it that night? These versions are very much inconsistent.

638
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: And wild contradictions and inconsistencies like these are hallmarks of

639
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: false confessions. From this case, they're taking wild stabs at

640
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: a plausible version of event that's consistent with their incentivized

641
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: defendant in order to nabb both young men.

642
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: So Antoine didn't go to trial for almost three years.

643
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: Part of that time he was in the notorious Cook

644
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 1: County jail and his family hired an attorney, a reputable

645
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: guy at.

646
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 4: The time, George Howard, at this time had a fairly

647
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 4: distinguished record. He was an African American criminal defense lawyer

648
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 4: in Chicago. You know, he had been a speaker at

649
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 4: a lot of the area law schools, tried a lot

650
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 4: of cases. But here's the problem. What they don't know

651
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 4: is that he's already clearly overburdened. He had been suspended

652
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 4: actually in nineteen ninety five and into nineteen ninety six

653
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 4: for neglecting his cases. This is a time when there

654
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 4: was still a death penalty in Illinois. And George Howard

655
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 4: looked at Antoine's case and he immediately told him, he said,

656
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 4: look it, they say you killed a white boy in

657
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 4: Oak Park. He doesn't think there's any way to defend

658
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 4: Antoine given the evidence that he is aware of, and

659
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 4: he goes, I'm here to save your life. So George

660
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 4: Howard decides he's going to insert an insanity defense, and incredibly,

661
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 4: he coaches Antoine and his family to fake mental illness.

662
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 3: He told me how to act in front of the judge.

663
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 3: When I go see the psychiatrists and psychologists. I literally

664
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 3: had to teach myself like I had to look at

665
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 3: other people behavior who was mentally ill or who was insane.

666
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 3: I mimicked them, basically because this is what my lawyer

667
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 3: told me that I needed to do. In order to

668
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 3: come home. I think I did it well because they

669
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 3: end up sending me to Elgin Mental Hospital. So it

670
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 3: was like three times I was found unfit to stand trial.

671
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 3: I stayed in the mental institution for a few months,

672
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 3: at least the county jail. I knew what I was

673
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 3: dealing with. As far as the violence, I knew. I

674
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 3: knew the environment, but the mental hospital you don't know

675
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 3: who you're dealing with. And then the medicines that they

676
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 3: hid me on at that time were spiratal held dog

677
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 3: doors Kojiton. Those are the things I had to deal

678
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 3: with because I was only impression because that's what was

679
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 3: going to get me home.

680
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 4: He took his lawyer's advice. He obviously was successful at

681
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 4: it for a while, but he couldn't sustain it, and

682
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 4: eventually the state is able to prove that this is

683
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 4: just a sham and Antoine is forced to go to trial.

684
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 4: This was a four day trial. The state called seventeen witnesses,

685
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 4: layfact witnesses, people who saw the car parked, people who

686
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 4: saw the car pull away, the person who found the body.

687
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 4: They have medical experts obviously to talk about the cause

688
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 4: of death, and forensic people who talk about the gun.

689
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 4: The gun was actually was a stolen gun, and they

690
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 4: couldn't get prints off the gun. They certainly didn't have

691
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 4: any fingerprints or DNA of Antoine's. And then they also

692
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 4: called some police supervisors and one of the detectives in

693
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 4: the States did the interrogations.

694
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: And we've been over all the most damning evidence already.

695
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: They placed the cash among Antline's possessions. Kevin Jackson placed

696
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: himself at the scene and implicated Antoine, although Kevin did

697
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: not testify at Antoine's trial. There's also this fabricated confession

698
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: and an alleged dying declaration. But George Howard was not

699
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: fighting the state's evidence. He didn't develop anything to combat it.

700
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 1: No defense but the insanity defense.

701
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 3: If I'm not mistaken, I think he says something to

702
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 3: the effect of open arguments. My client didn't do this,

703
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: and there's no evidence to prove that he did it.

704
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 3: But if he did do it, the end, he was

705
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 3: insane during the time.

706
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: So I wishy washy insanity play on top of the

707
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: evidence that the state did actually present, fabricated as it was.

708
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: It's so crazy.

709
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: Why because the state is fabricating all their evidence and

710
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: your attorney is fabricating an insanity. You weren't insane, and

711
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: the jury officer was going to see through that. But

712
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: there was a lot he could have done instead of

713
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: pleading insanity, including calling your middle school coach who could

714
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: have corroborated that you'd been beaten. Or he could have

715
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: just pointed out all the glaring inconsistencies and contradictions between statements,

716
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: not to mention the inconsistent reports about Antoine's possessions, namely

717
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: the lot of cash that wasn't found in his right

718
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: front pocket during the initial pat down, and of course

719
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: the EMTs who would have refuted the officer's testimony about

720
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: the dying declaration. In light of all that, Officer Harris's

721
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: testimony a trial was particularly devastating.

722
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 4: Officer Harris says, what he gets to the scene and

723
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 4: Jeremy is still conscious that he asks him a question, specifically,

724
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 4: who shot you? And Harris says that Jeremy allegedly said

725
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,919
Speaker 4: it was Antoine QB. The question is what exactly did

726
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 4: Harris ask? We do know that Antoine's name went out

727
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 4: over the police radio. So Antoine's name came from somewhere

728
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 4: and probably came from Jeremy. But the ES is what

729
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 4: question was he answering? And here's an important piece of evidence.

730
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 4: The paramedics were there in two minutes from when they

731
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 4: were called, So they get there very shortly, if not

732
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 4: exactly that the time and the police show and there

733
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 4: are five paramedics on the scene. Not one of them

734
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 4: corroborates Harris's story. No one other than the police officers

735
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 4: say that Jeremy identified Antoine as a shooter.

736
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: Right.

737
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: We're talking about the same police department that developed an

738
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,959
Speaker 1: alternate slate of Antoine's personal effects, that beat the shit

739
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: out of him and gave him a blank piece of

740
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: paper to sign, then filled it out with an alleged confession.

741
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: So pretty close to zero credibility to go around here.

742
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: So when your only sources are ok Park PD or

743
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: the EMTs, I'd go with the EMTs.

744
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 2: Right.

745
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: They don't have a motivation to lie, and they didn't equivocate.

746
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 2: They were sure that they hadn't heard Harris ask a question,

747
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 2: who shot you?

748
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,959
Speaker 4: One thing we do know for sure is that Eddie

749
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 4: Harris was fired by the old Park Police Department shortly

750
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 4: after what happened here in nineteen ninety nine, in part

751
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 4: for lying in the course of his duties. So there's

752
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 4: incredible doubt that Eddie Harris told the truth about what

753
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 4: question he asked Jeremy Bruder as he lay dying. But

754
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 4: that's the story that Eddie Harris told the jury, and

755
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 4: George Howard didn't call a single paramedic to talk to

756
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 4: the contrary.

757
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 2: There's so much that he did not do.

758
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 4: He did not develop the defense that Antoine had no

759
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 4: motive to shoot Jeremy, that Antoine had no special need

760
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 4: for that kind of money, had no interactions with Jeremy

761
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 4: that was anything close to supporting the possibility that he

762
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 4: shoot him. He was on the phone with his girlfriend

763
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 4: when this happened, But George Howard doesn't develop that, no

764
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 4: phone records, He didn't put his girlfriend on the stand.

765
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 4: You know that Antoine actually stopped the car, got out

766
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 4: and went back to the scene when he knows that

767
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 4: people have heard the shots, he knows that the police

768
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 4: are coming, and he's going right back there. You know,

769
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 4: when George Howard doesn't do anything with the gunshot residue tests,

770
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 4: and you know, he doesn't attack the supposed dying declaration,

771
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 4: the claim that Antoine had the money on him after

772
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 4: the shooting. He doesn't attack Antoine's alleged confession. He doesn't

773
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 4: do these things.

774
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: And why do any of that when your strategy was insanity.

775
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 4: George Howard called one witness, a psychiatrist from Michigan, who

776
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 4: came and testified that Antoine QB. Didn't have a sufficient

777
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 4: mental state to understand what he was doing, that he

778
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 4: essentially was insane. The problem was, or one of the problems,

779
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 4: was that he was testifying based on Michigan standards for insanity,

780
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 4: and the fact of the matter is they were in

781
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 4: the Illinois court and they needed to have the Illinois

782
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 4: standards supplied. So his testimony was rejected. So that's how

783
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 4: this case went to the jury.

784
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: So the States case went completely unrebutted, and the only

785
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: defense was rejected.

786
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 4: The only thing that George Howard did that worked was

787
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 4: to convince the judge that because Antoine had no prior

788
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,439
Speaker 4: criminal history, it would be cruel to sentence him to death.

789
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 4: So he was spared the death penalty but told that

790
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 4: he essentially would die in prison.

791
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 3: They gave me a natural life without the possibility of

792
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 3: parole for the murder, and then they gave me thirty

793
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 3: years for the armed robbery. I remember them saying guilty,

794
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 3: and everything else went blank, like literally quiet, and I

795
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 3: heard one person, my mom. I heard my mother cry,

796
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 3: and I didn't hear anything else. I didn't hear no

797
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 3: one else talking. I didn't hear anything but my mother,

798
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 3: you know, leaving the county jail, going to Jiliette, which

799
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 3: was annex you know, that was the receiving I think

800
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 3: that was the scariest ride ever. You know, you get in,

801
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 3: you know, they strip you and make you take the shower,

802
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 3: and you know, throw the powder on you and put

803
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 3: you in the IDEALC uniform. I stayed in Juliet for

804
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 3: a few days and they told me I was going

805
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 3: to the Pit. You know, that was the nickname for Minard,

806
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 3: And you know that's right there on the Mississippi River,

807
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 3: like eight hours away from home. When I got down there,

808
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 3: it was so racist. You know, it was literally separated,

809
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 3: you know, blacks against whites. You know, you had a

810
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 3: lot of race rides down there. You know, people literally

811
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 3: dying on the regular. I've seen everything from murders to rape.

812
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 3: I've seen people die right in front of me. I've

813
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 3: seen people get beat over over packer cookies. It can

814
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 3: be anything. Anything can triggery. Anything be triggery.

815
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: You know, we hear about the conditions in our prisons

816
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: every week, but no one who hasn't been there can imagine. Unfortunately,

817
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: your post conviction proceedings were and are very similar to

818
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: things we hear on this show every week as well.

819
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 4: His trial was in nineteen ninety nine. By two thousand

820
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 4: and one, his direct appeal had been denied. Antoine also

821
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 4: pursued a habeas petition in federal court in two thousand

822
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 4: and one, but that was also quickly denied.

823
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 1: And you think that making the case for ineffective assistants

824
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: might not be that hard considering the defense or lack

825
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: of defense that you had, But with the evidence presented

826
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: accepted as truth in this case, and knowing what we

827
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: know about our impellt system, is understandable that he was

828
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: met with denials.

829
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 2: What about his post conviction petition?

830
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 4: He did not file a post conviction petition until two

831
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 4: thousand and six, and then it was amended later in

832
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine to include actual innocence claims, at

833
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 4: one point supported by affidavits right.

834
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: Affid Davids in two thousand and eight, one from an

835
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend of Jamie Jackson, who said that Kevin was

836
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: living with Jamie at the time and when she called

837
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: Jamie the day after the shooting this would be June second,

838
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, that Jamie was upset that some money

839
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: and shoes, along with a nine millimeter pistol were missing.

840
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: When she asked Jamie about Antoine's arrest, he told her

841
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: that quote, Antoine would not be in trouble because Kevin

842
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 1: Jackson would tell.

843
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: The police what really happened that night end quote.

844
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 1: Also in two thousand and eight, a man named Robert Walker,

845
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,879
Speaker 1: who did time with Kevin Jackson at Danville Correctional from

846
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 1: two thousand and three to two thousand and five, also

847
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: swore that Kevin had admitted to the crime multiple times

848
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: over that period, in addition to saying that Antoine was

849
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 1: not responsible for it, saying, and I quote Kevin Jackson

850
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,280
Speaker 1: say that Antoine QB got the time for the case

851
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: that he should have got end quote. There were also

852
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: affid Davids from Antoine's mother and aunt who swore to

853
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: his injured condition when they visited him at Oak Park,

854
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: and then in twenty ten they caught up with Anthony Ferguson,

855
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: who swore to seeing Antoine before and after his night

856
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 1: of horror and torture at the oak Ark Police station

857
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: injury free the night before, followed by spitting up blood

858
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: in the Patty Way.

859
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 4: The state eventually made a motion to dismiss the original

860
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 4: post conviction petition because it was too late. Unfortunately for Antoine,

861
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 4: the appellate court decided in twenty thirteen that he was

862
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 4: too late, and so they threw his case out. So

863
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 4: in this intermediate period of time between twenty thirteen and

864
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 4: the present, there have been a number of different efforts,

865
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 4: primarily by Antoine himself, to try to develop evidence of

866
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 4: his innocence.

867
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: One of those efforts was having a linguistics expert, Richard Leonard,

868
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: examined the language used in the alleged confession and compared

869
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: to Antoine's known writings and speech.

870
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 4: And the conclusion of this expert was that there was

871
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 4: no similarity between the language that was used in the

872
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 4: signed statement that the police used as confession and the

873
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 4: way in which Antoine actually speaks it writes.

874
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: In fact, they found that the language more accurately reflected

875
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 1: the writing of the detective who allegedly took the statement.

876
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 1: For example, quote I met Jeremy at Cass Avenue on

877
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: sixty third Street in Westmont at an unknown time. That

878
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: is definitely cop talk. Another example was the use of

879
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: the word then, as in I then told Jeremy to

880
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: move his jeep to the end of the alley. We

881
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: both then went into the building after ringing Jamie's bell.

882
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 1: Every time the word then was used in the alleged confession,

883
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: it followed the sentences subject. Now, compared to other known

884
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,280
Speaker 1: writings of Antoine, he always put the word then first.

885
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: For example, then I went here, that I did this,

886
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: that I did that right. And what's more alarming still

887
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: is that the use of the word then closely resembles

888
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 1: the writings of the detective testifying against Antoine at his trial.

889
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: This report was done back in twenty fourteen. Now, in

890
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, as were referred to earlier, Kevin Jackson was released.

891
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 3: I actually talked to him over the phone. A mutual

892
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,760
Speaker 3: friend of ours, you know, connected us, gave me his number.

893
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 3: I wanted him to do the right thing. I wanted

894
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 3: him to tell people that I didn't do it. And

895
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 3: I called him. You know, he was talking to me

896
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 3: like like nothing happened, Like he didn't just sit there

897
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 3: and tell him that I did this. But I asked him,

898
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 3: I said, I needed you to talk to my lawyers

899
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 3: and tell him I didn't do this. I need you

900
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 3: to be honest and tell him the truth. And he

901
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 3: said he would. When they did try to set up

902
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 3: meetings and appointments with him, he wouldn't show. So, you know,

903
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 3: he kept saying that he was going to give me

904
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 3: an affid David telling the truth, but he never followed through.

905
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 3: So that's where I'm at now.

906
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: And this happened just before Joe's firm, Riley Safer Holmes

907
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 1: mckin Silla picked up Antoine's case pro bono in twenty eighteen,

908
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: and they have also gotten the same run around from

909
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: Kevin Jackson. But that's not to say other avenues are

910
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: not being explored to solidify Antoine's claim of actual innocence.

911
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 4: So those efforts include efforts to explore Kevin Jackson's willingness

912
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 4: to tell the truth what Kevin Jackson said to other

913
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 4: people about what happened that night. Certain individuals have been

914
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 4: identified who say that Kevin Jackson has said explicitly that

915
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 4: Antoine was not personally involved, So.

916
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: More people who corroborate what Robert Walker said in twenty ten. Now,

917
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: since twenty eighteen, both his junior high basketball coach who

918
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: visited him at the police station, and his ex girlfriend,

919
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: Tia Banks have both come forward signing out the Davids,

920
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: corroborating what Antoine and his GSR test has been saying

921
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: all along, that Kevin Jackson shot Jeremy Bruder, that Antoine

922
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: was completely unaware of Kevin Jackson's plans, as evidenced by

923
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: his behavior in the aftermath. I mean, why the help

924
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: would a guilty person return to the scene to essentially

925
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: turn himself in?

926
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 4: You know, why would a bright, super talented high school

927
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 4: basketball star with college offers all over America and no

928
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 4: history of criminal behavior, no history of violent behavior shoot

929
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 4: one of his best friends eight times for eleven hundred dollars.

930
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: Oh, you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure

931
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: this out. So, is there anything that our audience can

932
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 1: do to help?

933
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 4: If anybody who's listening to this podcast has any information

934
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 4: that they think might be valuable to us in terms

935
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 4: of what it is that we're trying to do for Antoine,

936
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 4: then I would sincerely ask that they contact our office.

937
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 4: My name is Joe O'Hara and the firm is Riley

938
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 4: Safer Homes and Cancilla.

939
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: We'll have action steps linked in the bio, including a

940
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: change dot org petition asking for relief in his case.

941
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 1: And that brings us to the best part of the show.

942
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 1: Let's face it, it's my favorite part, and it's called

943
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 1: closing arguments.

944
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 2: And this is the part where I think.

945
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: Each of you, both of you for joining us today

946
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: and courageously sharing Antoine and your story. And now I'm

947
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 1: just going to turn my mic off, leave my headphones on,

948
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,399
Speaker 1: and kick back on my chair to listen to your

949
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 1: closing thoughts.

950
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 2: Let's start with Joe and finish up with Antoine.

951
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 4: You know, the criminal justice system has failed Antoine horribly.

952
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 4: You always have to come back to that question, which is,

953
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 4: why would a upbride kid, a super talented athlete like

954
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 4: Antoine QB, with no history, no history at all of

955
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,439
Speaker 4: criminal behavior, violent behavior, why would he do something like this?

956
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 4: The state's case against Antoine had big holes from the beginning,

957
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 4: and they knew it because there was no good motive.

958
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 4: He wasn't a kid from the streets who had done

959
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 4: anything like this before, and they didn't have any witness

960
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,760
Speaker 4: except for somebody who was involved and a very biased witness,

961
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 4: Kevin Jackson. And they didn't have any forensic evidence or

962
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 4: physical evidence of any kind, you know, they didn't have

963
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 4: any gun evidence, or blood evidence, or fingerprint evidence or

964
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 4: DNA evidence or the only test that they did that

965
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 4: GSR was negative. So the state had to do something,

966
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 4: and they filled the holes in the case with the

967
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 4: evidence that was manufactured by the police, and that was

968
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 4: essentially the supposed dying identification of Antoine by Jeremy, the

969
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 4: possession of the robbery money that was planted on Antoine,

970
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 4: and then the alleged confession, and all of this was

971
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 4: exacerbated by the fact that George Howard decided to rely

972
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 4: only on an insanity defense to try to save Antoine

973
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 4: from the death penalty. Where we find ourselves is Antoine

974
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 4: has endured over you know, over twenty five years at

975
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 4: this point of incarceration as a result of these failures.

976
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 2: Of the criminal justice system.

977
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:16,359
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, and particularly in Cook County, situations like Antoine's are

978
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 4: not unusual, and it is very important for the public

979
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 4: to support the efforts of those in public service, including

980
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 4: the people who run this Wrongful Conviction podcast. They need

981
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 4: your support, They need your encouragement to continue to identify

982
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 4: and rectify some of the horrible things that have resulted

983
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 4: because the system doesn't.

984
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 2: Work the right way.

985
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 3: I want to first thank you for allowing me this

986
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 3: opportunity to speak the truth. A lot of people didn't

987
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,240
Speaker 3: know about a lot of these things that took place

988
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 3: doing my arrest before and after, and I'm glad you

989
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 3: gave me this platform to do so. I just asked that,

990
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 3: you know, people not make assumptions, just use the black

991
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 3: and white evidence in front of you. And I just

992
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,280
Speaker 3: hope that in the near future that I be home

993
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,280
Speaker 3: because I miss being a father, I missed out being

994
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 3: a grandfather and you know, being a son. All that

995
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 3: was taken away from me, including my potential future. You know,

996
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 3: who knows what could have came of it, but I

997
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,919
Speaker 3: am grateful and I'm going to continue to fight, and

998
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 3: I just want to thank you. So I know my

999
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 3: time is wrapping up now, so I just want to

1000
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 3: thank everybody for being an advocate for a man, supporting me.

1001
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Rabel Conviction. I'd like to

1002
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburn, and Kevin Wadis,

1003
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,240
Speaker 1: with research by Lyla Robinson. The music in this production

1004
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

1005
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

1006
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at

1007
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On

1008
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: all three platforms, you can also follow me on both TikTok.

1009
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 2: And Instagram at it's Jason Flam.

1010
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction is the production of Lava for Good podcast

1011
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: and association with Signal Company Number one