1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: Quody Damas, but Joseph's gotten more. It's very difficult too, 2 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: and I can't even do it justice to summarize. I 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: hate that word. The end of life of four individuals. 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: And for our purposes on this episode, in the previous 5 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: episode of Bodybacks, we have split these episodes into So 6 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: today we're going to pick up where we left off, 7 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about Xanta Canodle and Ethan 8 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: Chapin and what they went through and their final moments 9 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: in this life. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. 10 00:00:59,320 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: Day. 11 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: We really walked down quite the gruesome path in our 12 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: last episode of Bodybags, and you know, I got to 13 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: tell you, it's not for the faint of heart. None 14 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: of this is. I think that we've probably always known 15 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: that it was not going to be for the faint 16 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: of heart. 17 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 3: I got to. 18 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: Tell you, I did not, even in my experience, Dave, 19 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: I did not anticipate the level of violence that we've 20 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: been discussing. A part of me thinks that I was 21 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: hoping that it wasn't going to be to this degree 22 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,559 Speaker 1: because we've spent so much time going over this case 23 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: and discussing this case for all these years, and then 24 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: when this information finally drops. 25 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 3: You realize the scope of. 26 00:01:54,680 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: Everything that these kids went through. And I think about 27 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: Kayley and the level of trauma that she endured. 28 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 3: I got to tell you. 29 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: Zanna is equal to that. And I don't know, there's 30 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: there's really no equality here. Perhaps it's just it's just 31 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: how over the top these injuries are. And it says 32 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: a lot about the person that perpetrated, perpetrated these crimes 33 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,839 Speaker 1: and again convicted of them. 34 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: When we were talking about Beginzava's family yesterday, during a 35 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: lot of the recording and on al Fair, we've talked 36 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: about this case a lot. 37 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 3: And the one thing that. 38 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 2: You and I in covering stories for so many years, 39 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 2: you tend to see families of the victims. Some are 40 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: are just taking it back where they can't even speak 41 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 2: they're so emotional there, or the opposite, so shut down 42 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: that they can't speak. But in this one, from the 43 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:10,839 Speaker 2: very beginning, from early on, the Gonzavaz family was very, 44 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: very harsh, not just their wording, but they were very upfront, 45 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: very in your face. And now we know why. I 46 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: think a lot of us assumed that they had a 47 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: lot more information than we did which they did, and 48 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: that's why they were given a wide berth, you know, 49 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: to say what they wanted to say. But Steve Gonzalvez 50 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: in particular did dial himself back a little bit. He 51 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: didn't volunteer everything they knew. But it was just I 52 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: now understand why he felt the way that he did. 53 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: And I will tell you my heart hurts for all 54 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: of the family members because no matter how they handle it, 55 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: it's better than me. That's all I keep thinking, Joe, 56 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: based on what you and I have found out over 57 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 2: the last few days of what happened with these young people. 58 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: Every family, whether they were quiet and reserved or loud 59 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: in holding meetings, they all did it better than me. 60 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: I don't think I would have emotionally, psychologically survived the 61 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: knowledge that these families have of what happened to their 62 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 2: loved one. 63 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the tough thing, and you know that. I 64 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: think that that kind of brings us to Xanna, and 65 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: in maybe kind of the securitest way, she I think she, 66 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: out of all of the all of the victims, we 67 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: knew not quite as much about her family background, and 68 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: she had to say that she had come from kind 69 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: of a tough tough raising, I think is maybe an understatement, 70 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: and not that not that there are degrees to tragedy, 71 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: because everything is tragic in its own way. Her death 72 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: is tragic in its own unique way because she is 73 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: literally one of these kids that's kind of pulled herself 74 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: up just through sheer will, that hardcore will. And you know, 75 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: I've had kids like her, you know, over the course 76 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: of my academic career, where they are determined that they're 77 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: going to do better, that they are gonna set their 78 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: faces like flint collectively and individually, and they are just 79 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: going to push on through no matter what. And she's 80 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: she I think Xanna epitomized that. And what was you know, 81 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: again kind of very poignant about this is I think 82 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: that with Ethan, and again I'm kind of superimposing what 83 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: I believe here. I think that with Ethan, she saw 84 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: like this great family, you know, that she could potentially 85 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: be a part of, and that stability. You know a 86 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: lot of kids that you know, come from homes that 87 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have that kind of support, They longed for that, 88 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: they long for that for that stability. 89 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: To give you an idea of who we are dealing 90 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: with in her family, Joe. Yeah, Ann Taylor, the attorney 91 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: for the murderer, actually represented Xana Karnodle's mother in a 92 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 2: drug related incident. She was actually the attorney of record 93 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 2: for Xanna Kernodle's mom, and when this case came along 94 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: and she saw the opportunity to get a lot of publicity, 95 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: she moved everything aside so that she could become appointed, 96 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: you know, to be the public defender for the cover case. 97 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 2: Sorry I used his name, but that's the reality here. 98 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 2: So Ann Taylor actually defended Xanakernodle's mother before she got 99 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: that out of the way and became the attorney for 100 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 2: the person who killed her client daughter. Think about that 101 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: for just a minute, and it also explains the kind 102 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: of background Xana grew up in. That's her mom not 103 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: knocking anyone, but her dad didn't do anybody any favors 104 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 2: by what he did during his statement, his impact statement, 105 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 2: because it was meandering and it was all about him. 106 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 2: Well he was gonna miss you know, and I get that. 107 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: Look I've said it before, Joe, I don't know how 108 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 2: I would have acted in that situation. I understand how 109 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: every I could have been any one of them, you know, 110 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: given the moment. But it's not something easy to speak 111 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 2: in front of an audience, a crowd that you've never met, 112 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 2: in front of a judge in a courtroom in a 113 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: foreign place and actually be articulate, you know, and makes 114 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: sense because your heart broken, you have been stomped on, 115 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: and I don't know how you get out of bed 116 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: in the morning. 117 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 3: So that's off to all of them. 118 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 2: But you're right to identify Xana as the victim of 119 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: this situation who had really done well. You know, we 120 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: mentioned before, Joe, these young people were students in college 121 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: and they were all good students. Yeah, everyone, that's such 122 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: a rare thing. It's just not the norm. You know 123 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 2: it as a professor and as a parent, we both 124 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 2: know it. 125 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, and these kids were all I think Ethan was 126 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 1: still early in his career, but I have no doubt 127 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: that he would have completed. All of these kids were 128 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: tracking toward graduation. And you know, listen, so which will 129 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: that's the exception as opposed to the norm most people 130 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: that start college, if you look at them in total, 131 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: that's that's not that's not generally going to happen. Most 132 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: people will fall by the wayside. They might come back 133 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: and pick up college later. But all of these young 134 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: people who were tracking toward graduation, you know, one had 135 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: already moved out and was done with all of the 136 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: requirements and everything. So yeah, and finished early. So you 137 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: look at that and you think, Wow, what are the 138 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: odds that this group of young people would all come together? 139 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: Maybe that was one of the core elements that drew 140 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: them all together. And you know, and I can never 141 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: get past that image that was taken the day before, 142 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: the group image of all of these kids together. I 143 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: think that was actually taken at an adjacent property. I 144 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: was always under the impression that was taken there on property, 145 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 1: the outdoor shot of them that I had heard that 146 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: that was taken at an adjacent property. But yeah, with 147 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: Xana in particular, there's quite the quite she she's been 148 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: kind of a touchstone throughout this. We've got uh, Maddie 149 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: and Kaylee isolated. We talked about that extensively, and you know, 150 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: uh Kaylee in particular, trapped I think was the word 151 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: that her daddy used, Trapped in that bed and in 152 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: that room. But Xana was of course free in this. 153 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: She she moved about. We don't really know what it 154 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: was that drew her attention, Dave. But her story in 155 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: and of itself, kind of her her little life, you know, 156 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: kind of weaves itself all the way through everything from 157 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: her being up active on her phone, the food order, 158 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: collecting the food, you know, and then what what did 159 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: she hear that drew her attention up this adjacent stair 160 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: stair will And you know, I don't know that that 161 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: mystery will ever be completely solved. I don't know that 162 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: that's possible, but I think that we we kind of 163 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: have an idea. Would you agree with that statement, man. 164 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we have based on what we now know 165 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 2: from the police interviews. Early on, we know that Dylan 166 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: Dylan said Dylan Mortenson that she heard Kaylee scream somebody 167 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 2: is in the house. 168 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 3: Yep. 169 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 2: Now we know that Dylan heard what it sounded to 170 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 2: her as a scuffle that she thought might be Kaylee 171 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 2: playing with her doge, but then she heard a loud 172 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 2: thud and then muffles, muffled noises, I guess the better 173 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 2: way to put that. But based on what Dylan told 174 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 2: police and the hours after this happened, recounting what it 175 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: appears to be, and based on what Bill Thompson, the 176 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 2: prosecutor said, Xana heard what was going on as well. 177 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: She was awake, Ethan was crashed out. They came in, 178 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 2: Ethan crashed. They've been in a couple hours. Xana was up, 179 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 2: she was on her phone, she placed the order from 180 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 2: Jack in the box, it was delivered, and she's got 181 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 2: her food. So she's awake hearing something going on that 182 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: is not normal for her to hear. And after, you know, 183 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 2: Dylan heard the scream somebody's in the house, Xana probably went, 184 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 2: who's in the house, what the heck? And so she 185 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: went to go look whereas Dylan Mortenson. Bethony Fulks said 186 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 2: they stayed put Dylan in particular said she was mortified 187 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: and scared and stayed in her room. She put her 188 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 2: head out three different times. But Zan and it appears 189 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: might have actually gone up the stairs to the third 190 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 2: floor to find out what was going on. And based 191 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: on timing sounds, yep, it appears that she came in 192 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: contact with a killer on those stairs. 193 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then and then the chase was on at 194 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: this point in time, because when you when you think 195 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: of okay, let's just look at it this way. And 196 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: I think everybody that is listening to us right now 197 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: can identify with the idea of hearing a sound in 198 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: our home at night. I can't tell you how many 199 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: times that's happened and you get up out of bed 200 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: and you go inspect it, or you know, uh with 201 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: with Kim laying right next to me, who is a 202 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: light sleeper, I get the elbow. Did you hear that? 203 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: You know? And then you you arise, I'm not going 204 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: to get my wife to go. You arise, and you know, 205 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: And so anytime I arise out of the bed, I'm 206 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: going to be accompanied by my little friend who shall 207 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: go unmentioned, that I keep with me at all times 208 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: to inspect the area. She didn't have that advantage. And 209 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: when you go to inspect your house, you don't. You 210 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: don't really. I think your hair standing up, maybe on 211 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: the back of your neck. I think that that's, you know, 212 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: the promal response, you know, you that kind of tingling 213 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: feeling that you get and then you confirm. Most people 214 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: confirm that it was nothing okay. However, there are those 215 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: moments in time where you come face to face with satan, 216 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: which in Xana's case, I think that that's what happened. 217 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: I agree. She goes and here's the other thing. If 218 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: she hears whimpering or hears kind of a fold sound. 219 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: Let's reflect back to what we talked about in the 220 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: previous episode, where you've got life leaving the bodies of 221 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: these two young women, if they're not deceased at that 222 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: point time, if there's any kind of sound I talked 223 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: about yesterday about expiating blood, you would have coughing, you 224 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: may have someone that if they're capable of those last 225 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: few moments with a death rattle, or they're experiencing pain, 226 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: their moaning or something like this, there's still that remnant 227 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: that's there. Maybe it caught her ear at that point time, 228 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: and as she ascends this staircase, he's now descending the staircase, 229 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: removing himself from this environment. Which here's the thing I'm 230 00:15:53,800 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: wondering in the perpetrator's mind here, if this individual ual has, 231 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: if he's capable of this, if he's having this indwelling fear, 232 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: kind of fight flight kind of thing that's going on 233 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: after he's kind of loosed himself in this frenzy that 234 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: he has, whatever the motivation is, hatred, anger, sex, maybe 235 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: a combination of all three. He thinks he's free and 236 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: clear he didn't expect to find two people. He found one. 237 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: I mean, he expected maybe to find one, found two. 238 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: Who knows. And he's already heightened, he's already spent. And 239 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, you get this other burst 240 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: of adrenaline on his part. You're confronting somebody on these 241 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: darkened stairs. You know that they're in front of you. 242 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: You know what you've just done upstairs. You've got to 243 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: put as much distance between those people up there and 244 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: the people that person that's standing before you at this time. Well, 245 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: it's at that moment, Tom, that the attack begins, or 246 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: at least the pursuit begins. We know that Xanna is 247 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: found on the floor of her bedroom. He's chased her 248 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: in here and has assaulted her Dave, and again we're 249 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: faced with the proposition of this wounding that has taken place, 250 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: these injuries, which again are almost too unimaginable for any 251 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: of us to comprehend. I don't know that anyone can 252 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: appreciate the fear. When I was little, I used to 253 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: have this reoccurring dream that I was being chased and 254 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: that everything around me was on fire, and that there 255 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: were these fire people chasing me. Now, I don't know 256 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: how you dissect that dream. I don't know what goes 257 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: into it. I'm sure that there's some deep seated pathology there. 258 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: It wouldn't surprise me on my part. But and it 259 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: was a dream that I had into my twenties. It 260 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: was like a reoccurring dream for a moment. Xanna had 261 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: something like that. But Dave, she had an I think 262 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: that she had an awareness because obviously she's awake. This 263 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: is no dream. It's like that that line from Rosemary's 264 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: Baby where Mia Ferriss says, this isn't a dream. This 265 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,959 Speaker 1: is really happening. For those of you that are not 266 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: familiar with that book or that movie, horrible, horrible story. 267 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: But that's it's something that you cannot necessarily wrap your 268 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: brain around. And for those moments that would have been 269 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: in her last moments, that would have she's trying to 270 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 1: flee from this individual and get away after he has 271 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: kind of entered into her room. 272 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 3: Dave, all hell breaks loose. It is directed at her. 273 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 2: Sergeant Shane Gunderson actually wrote in his report about what 274 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 2: took place in the room. In Xama's room, he actually 275 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 2: noted that they could tell a fierce struggle took place 276 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 2: in that room, and so if you're the way, I'm 277 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: thinking this took place between Kayleie screaming somebody's in the house, 278 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 2: Xanna goes upstairs to see what's going on. Her boyfriend 279 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 2: is in her bed, crashed out. I'm guessing Coburger the 280 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 2: killer meets her on the stairs getting I'm picturing her 281 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 2: timidly listening to see what's going on, and he comes 282 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: out and sees her, and she takes off to try 283 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 2: to get to her room, and he's in a like 284 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 2: you mentioned, probably was not expecting anything to stop him. 285 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 2: Everybody's going to be asleep. I'm going to get in 286 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: there and get out, and I'm gonna leave this mayhem. 287 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 2: I'm going to leave horror behind. But instead he ends 288 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 2: up having to into a real fight with Maddie and Kaylee. 289 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 2: And he comes down the stairs and he sees Xana 290 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 2: and she's taken off trying to get back to the 291 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 2: safety of a room, thinking I can shut the door 292 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: and lock it and start screaming. 293 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 3: She never makes it. He gets her. 294 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 2: And I would like to know more about what took 295 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 2: place in that hallway, because we know that she didn't 296 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 2: make it all the way into her room. We know 297 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 2: that where her body was, you know, was yeah. 298 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 3: And I would love to. 299 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: Talk to like an endochronologist sometime to try to understand 300 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: this idea of adrenaline dumps, where you know you've got 301 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: an individual that is like they are in this case, 302 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: this monster has perpetrated this crime. That's one adrenaline dump 303 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: that you have going on in that moment, and then 304 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, maybe it begins, you have this 305 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: conscious awareness that you need to leave. Then all of 306 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: a sudden you get another dump when you come face 307 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: to face with an eyewitness. At that point in tom 308 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: you track her down into the room. And Dave, you 309 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: remember what I was saying yesterday about Kayley. We had 310 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: one report for the police that came out that said 311 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: that she had twenty sharp force injuries. Mister Gonzalez said 312 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: that it was upwards of thirty. Okay, Dave, I got 313 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: to tell you. I know that we're not necessarily comparing numbers, 314 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 1: but please tell me the number with Xanna. I mean 315 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: that we're looking at right now, fifty background. 316 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 2: Fifty mostly defensive wounds. Now, the way it has been pitched, 317 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 2: not pitched, the way it has been written down by police. 318 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 2: Was that a massive struggle took place, A fight is 319 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: breaking out, and yet Dana Krenodle did not go without 320 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: putting up a fight. She fought long and hard and 321 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 2: I don't know, again, a minute probably feels like an 322 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 2: hour when you're in this kind of a battle for 323 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 2: your life. She was in a life and death struggle 324 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 2: with the devil. Fifty stab wounds, arms, defensive wounds. One 325 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 2: of them was described as grabbing the knife. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 326 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 2: I can't imagine, Joe. I you know, we see this 327 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 2: in movies and things like that, where somebody in desperation 328 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 2: grabs the knife, but she has that wound on her 329 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 2: hand and she grabs a blade. 330 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: Did you know that that? I don't know if you 331 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: remember that we've been doing this for so long now, 332 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: did you know that for me at least, we had 333 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: been hearing sharp force injury, stab wounds, that sort of thing, 334 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: but it was very generalized and broad. Okay, do you 335 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: recall that that descriptor of Xana was actually the first 336 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:29,719 Speaker 1: bit of specific injury data that was leaked out? And 337 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: the reason I remember it is that whoever originally released 338 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: that information and I can't recall who it was they 339 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: referred to tendons at that point in time, the tendons 340 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: in the hand, and it would it doesn't surprise me 341 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: at all because grabbing this blade and having the blade 342 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: actually drawn through the hand forcefully is not surprising. We 343 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 1: go back to we go back to Kayley that had 344 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: these blocking injuries. You know, I talked about these. I 345 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: use the term parry, which is a term that's used 346 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: in ni fighting and sword fighting. It's a defensive move 347 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: where you raise your arm. It would seem to me 348 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: that some of these injuries would have been similar in 349 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: that sense. But when you're talking about fifty and this 350 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: number is being utilized or used rather to describe her injuries, 351 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: they're going to come in multiple presentations on her body. Obviously, 352 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: you have to have you have to have specific injuries 353 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: that are going to end her life. But let's just 354 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: think about these defensive injuries just for a second. They 355 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: were very specific on her left hand, and I would 356 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: not that your hand dependency really comes into play so 357 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: much circumstance like this when you're fighting for your life. 358 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: I'd really like to know if Xanna was left handed 359 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: or right handed, because one of these really ghastly injuries 360 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: that she sustained, notes that it was between the left 361 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: index finger and her thumb. So if you imagine, imagine 362 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: just grasping something anything a soda can, a pin, or 363 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: whatever it is you want to pretend with you grasp 364 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: this and that kind of webbing, the webbing that we 365 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: have that extends through between your index finger and your thumb, 366 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: that would have been sliced all the way through. And 367 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: I would imagine that there are probably going to be 368 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: several that are similar to that over the surfaces of 369 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: her body, because when you think about fifty Dave, there's 370 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 1: only so many places that you can go, and she's 371 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: a tiny she's a tiny young lady. You can look 372 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: at her images and tell this. She doesn't have a 373 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: lot of surface areas, so she's going to have them 374 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: anatomically oriented in multiple locations. I think at least she's 375 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 1: also been and I think that this is indicative of 376 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: trying to get her to submit. 377 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 3: Again. 378 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 1: This goes to how violent this attack was. She's got 379 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:34,239 Speaker 1: multiple blunt force trauma as well. You know, just think 380 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: about if you've ever seen a fight where you've got 381 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: an individualist trying to get someone under control and they 382 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: begin to punch them. The punching, I think comes about 383 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: to kind of disorient them so you can accomplish the task. 384 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: In this case, the task was to end her life. 385 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: There was no way she was going to get out 386 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: of these circumstances, Dave, at all. So you're going to 387 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: have this individual, this perpetrator, this lizard, striking her multiple times. 388 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: I also believe that he is probably holding the knife 389 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: as he's doing this, and the knife is being used 390 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: as a bludgeon. I submit to you that probably the 391 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: end of the knife, and I'm not talking about the 392 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: business end with the tip of the blade. I'm talking 393 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: about the handle, is being used to hammer away. I 394 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:33,719 Speaker 1: was talking some folks just last night, Dave, about the 395 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: utility of the k bar knife. Okay, and did you 396 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: know that with the k bar it's such a robust 397 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 1: weapon that when the Marine Corps created it, it has 398 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: multiple utility. This blade is so robust and resilient that 399 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: you can actually open crates of AMMO with it. So, 400 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: just thinking the South Pacific, you've got these little wooden 401 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: crates that comes in or chow comes in, food, whatever 402 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: it is. You can take this blade and stick it 403 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: between the lid and the rest of the framework of 404 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: these wooden crates and pop the thing open. Also, you 405 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: can flip the knife around and the rounded butt of 406 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: the handle can be used as a hammer dave, so 407 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: you're striking down And if you if you look, if 408 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: you look at the end of a k bar knife 409 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: on the on the handle portion of it, it actually 410 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: looks like the head of a hammer. And so it 411 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: would not surprise me if the knife had been utilized 412 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: this way during these attacks. This is where you're getting 413 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: these grotesque blunt force trauma from that are that these 414 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: victims are being subjected to know. 415 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 2: The one thing that I was trying to gather in 416 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 2: my thoughts because I'm a visual person. 417 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 3: You know, I can and. 418 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 2: I'm picturing, which is why it bothered me. They tore 419 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 2: the house down, and yeah, because I wanted to know. 420 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 2: I wanted to be able to count the steps. I 421 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 2: wanted to know where did Xana actually come in contact 422 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 2: with her killer and was she hoping beyond all hope 423 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 2: that Ethan would wake up. You know that she's getting 424 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 2: to the room because the fact that she was found 425 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 2: in the middle of the room on the floor. 426 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 3: She's not on the. 427 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,959 Speaker 2: Bed, She's not pushed against. So she stood there and 428 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 2: fought her killer right there. You know she you mentioned 429 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 2: she was a slight woman. Coburger. You know, he's six 430 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 2: foot tall. I mean he's going to out he's going 431 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 2: to be stronger than her. And you would have thought 432 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 2: he would have been able to push her against a 433 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 2: wall to you know, in the effort of killing. But 434 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 2: she fought in the middle of that room where she died. 435 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 2: And what we do know from those defensive wounds is 436 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: that she didn't go quickly, she didn't go quietly, and 437 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 2: we know that Dylan Mortenson said that she heard a 438 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 2: male voice she didn't recognize, basically saying I'm here to help, right, 439 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 2: I got you, don't worry, you know, calming her down 440 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 2: so that she didn't speak. I guess. And what we 441 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 2: know of Xanna from that moment, she was the only 442 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 2: one that truly was awake and engaged as this took place. 443 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, fully fully engaged brother all the way all the 444 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: way through, you know. I The one thing about is 445 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: this is that these these kids were brutalized in such 446 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: a way that and I find this quite remarkable. I'd 447 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: love to know what you think about this. With Kaylee 448 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: and Maddie. They both sustained injuries to their chest, to 449 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: the organs of the chest. Okay, so the lung lungs 450 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: in particular with them, the left long. With Xanna, she 451 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: actually sustained a laceration to her right lung as well 452 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: as two lacerations to her heart. Okay, Again, this individual 453 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: is in a dominant position over them. And here's here's 454 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: the Here's the real thing, man, here's the real thing. 455 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: They would have been literally face to face with him, 456 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: face to face. This guy, even through that that darkness, 457 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: that desperate darkness in there, he he is the only 458 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: thing they see. Let let that settled down into everyone's 459 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: groundwater just for a second. The last thing that your 460 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: eyes behold before you before you step off into eternity. 461 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: Is this reptile? A big mystery I think in everything 462 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: with this case is is Ethan? What happened to Ethan? 463 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: We've heard quite a bit. 464 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 3: Let me tell you. 465 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: Let me just throw some things out to you that 466 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: came across my desk. This doesn't mean they're valid, okay. 467 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: And you never know, And this just goes to show 468 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: you never know what's floating about out there. And these 469 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: conclusions that people draw. Did you know at one point 470 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: in tom there was a story that was floating about 471 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: that talked about how Ethan see how do you go? 472 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: Ethan was found on the floor of the bedroom and 473 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: his throat had been cut as if out of a 474 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: slasher movie where the blade was, you know, drawn across 475 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: the neck, those sorts of things, and he essentially fell 476 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: right there. Well, I got to tell you, Dave, everything 477 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: that we've heard, the information that we do have about 478 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: Ethan doesn't validate that in any way, you know, when 479 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: you begin to think about the position that he was 480 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: found in. And what we do know is that he 481 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: was in the bed, all right. He was in Xana's bed. 482 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: This is her room. He was spending the night there, 483 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: and that's really all we know. And we haven't had 484 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 1: a lot of comment from his family because the family 485 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: was not there to deliver a victim impact statement. And look, 486 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: they made that choice. They felt like that, and I think, 487 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,399 Speaker 1: and I'm getting this accurate, that they felt as though 488 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: they wanted to honor him by going out on their 489 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: boat that day. And it brings me back to an 490 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: image that I saw that has been thrown around quite 491 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,879 Speaker 1: a bit. And you can see this image of it's 492 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: a sweet, sweet picture, and it's a picture of Ethan 493 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: and Zenna on a boat together. And you you know, 494 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: as you well know, I love my boat and I 495 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 1: spend as much possible time as as I can on 496 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: that boat with my bride, and it's it is our 497 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: happy place. And I hope that the they were happy 498 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,359 Speaker 1: for at that moment time, as sad as that day was. 499 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: But we haven't had them making statements specifically about Ethan's injuries. 500 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: But what we do know is that he's obviously found 501 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: in the bed. He sustained pretty significant trauma relative to 502 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: this individual who has now confessed killing him, Dave, and 503 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: has now been convicted and is now thrown into a 504 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: deep dark hole. But we do finally have a mystery 505 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: solved here, and this just came to mind, Dave. It 506 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: has been confirmed that that image that was foisted upon 507 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: us for so long, of the quote unquote blood dripping 508 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: out of the house. 509 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 3: Which I thought was fake by the way, Yeah. 510 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, you told me that. And let me tell you something. 511 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: I defy anybody to go back and find any statement 512 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: or written statement, or vocalized statement, image anything of me 513 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: saying that that's blood. I never said that, and I 514 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 1: never have and the reason I didn't is because I 515 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: know better than to do that. No person involved in 516 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: forensics what their salt, would call that blood's there's a 517 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: whole most people are not aware. We might see things 518 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: at a scene, okay, and it might look like blood 519 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: to us, but we will not say that it is 520 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,879 Speaker 1: in fact blood. We can't even comment, like in an 521 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: official report, that that this looks like blood. You can 522 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,720 Speaker 1: say maybe a blood like substance until you can actually 523 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: scientifically confirm it. And can I run down this list 524 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: for you real quick? I won't belabor the point. But 525 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: first off, we have to identify and this is the 526 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: way this works. We have to identify that this substance 527 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:14,839 Speaker 1: is blood, and if blood, we have to identify if 528 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: it's animal blood or human blood. Then the next step 529 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: is to confirm if it is human blood. And this 530 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: is what it used to work. What blood type is it? 531 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: You know, so you've got your ABO groupings. Then from 532 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: there you can pull information from that sample and get 533 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: a DNA profile on it. And we have come to 534 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: find out now that they have identified and this is 535 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 1: per the police, that that blood that seeped down that 536 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: foundational wall. It looks like center block to me, that 537 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 1: exterior wall that they keep showing over and over again 538 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: that it was blood and that this blood actually belonged 539 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: to Ethan dave Ye. 540 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 2: I was shocked to hear that that was the truth. 541 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 2: And the reason is it didn't seem likely. It seemed 542 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 2: like something that would have happened as a gag on Halloween. 543 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 2: And the one thing I have learned in doing things 544 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 2: with you over the years, you don't even mention if 545 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,799 Speaker 2: something looks like a bullet wound. You know, somebody is 546 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 2: shot and you see where the hole is for the 547 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 2: but you don't call it a bullet wound. You call 548 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 2: it something other than that defect. Yeah, I'm like, well, 549 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 2: and the same thing is true here seeing that picture 550 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 2: of blood, I thought it was going to be something else, 551 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 2: but it really was Ethan's blood. And now that we 552 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,839 Speaker 2: know that Ethan was in the bed asleep, they'd been 553 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 2: at a frat party earlier, got home Tewish He's crashed, 554 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 2: sound asleep when Xanna orders the food from Jack in 555 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 2: the Box, and with everything going on, with Xanna hearing 556 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,359 Speaker 2: the upstairs at activity, hearing his scream, even sleeping through 557 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:02,320 Speaker 2: all of that apparently. 558 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 3: But his injuries actually. 559 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 2: Kind of make me understand why there was blood coming 560 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 2: out the side of that on the outside wall, because 561 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 2: we've got now I don't know exactly how many times 562 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 2: he was stabbed, but I know it was at least once, 563 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 2: because that was the original thing, was that he was 564 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 2: stabbed and it got his jugular vein, and that was it. 565 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 3: Now well looked. 566 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, let me back up here just for a seconds. 567 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,800 Speaker 1: You did get a shugglar vein, but it's also gotten 568 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: it also clipped his subclave vein, which is different than 569 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: the juggler, and it also got his subclavicular artery as well. 570 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,880 Speaker 1: And thank you, by the way, you sent me a 571 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,359 Speaker 1: text last night. Yeah, he sent me a text last night. 572 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,839 Speaker 3: Clinny. It is the case that we Weretney Clinny. 573 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, Courtney Clinny that threw the knife that killed that 574 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: young man. She claimed that she threw the knife, which 575 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: you know, if you're selling it, ain't buying it. 576 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:12,439 Speaker 3: And that's why. 577 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 2: And Joe, just so that we're clear here, when we 578 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 2: did the you know, fan the model thing, you know 579 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 2: only fans about Courtney Clinny and her claim that you know, 580 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,760 Speaker 2: she just threw the steak knife and it just happened 581 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 2: to hit him right there. I had no idea that 582 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,360 Speaker 2: that was a dangerous spot to hit somebody. It seemed 583 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 2: like an actually a pretty innocuous spot. But when you 584 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,399 Speaker 2: actually were breaking that down, when I saw this where 585 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:42,279 Speaker 2: I mentioned subclavian vein, subclavian artery, and jugular vein, my 586 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 2: first thought is, Okay, we're all going to know jugular vane. 587 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 2: We've all heard that, these other ones I don't know. 588 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 2: So is this something could be done with one knife wound? 589 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 2: Could one knife wound get all of this? 590 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: I suppose that it could. And they're very non specific 591 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: and they're listing up, yeah, these injuries because you're going 592 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 1: to have this complex of vessels that run through this area, 593 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: And yeah, could you get subclave artery, the subclave vein, 594 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 1: and the jiggler vein all in one stab wound. I 595 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: think that you probably could. I think that would probably 596 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: be improbable. They're kind of bundled altogether. We don't know 597 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,760 Speaker 1: if it's multiple stab wound because they're not really talking 598 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 1: about that at this point, and I anticipate here's something 599 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 1: else that I'm kind of very interested in. It's going 600 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: to be the blood pattern deposition on this. And here's why, 601 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: because if ethan, if we believe what they're saying that 602 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: he was awake and that he never moved from that position, 603 00:41:54,680 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 1: he was killed where he lay. If they clipped an 604 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: artery there to a vein to a lesser degree, particularly 605 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:10,840 Speaker 1: particularly that subclave artery day, you're going to have a 606 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,919 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of force coming through there. That and you've 607 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: heard this term of arterial spray, where the spray of 608 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: the blood as it's pouring out, it comes out with 609 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: such force you'll get this almost histamin like deposition on 610 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: surrounding surfaces. Here's another thing. I have to think that 611 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:44,800 Speaker 1: he did lay in one position for a protracted period 612 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,959 Speaker 1: of time as he bled out, because you're getting enough 613 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,240 Speaker 1: blood here that it would have to seep. And again 614 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: this is based upon what they're saying, seep off of 615 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,359 Speaker 1: the edge of the bed or through the bed, then 616 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: adjacent to the wall, go past the flooring, the sub flooring, 617 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 1: and then wind up presenting itself on the exterior of 618 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: the house. Dave, just let that sink in. 619 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 3: A lot of that. 620 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 1: The just that external view that you have of the 621 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,760 Speaker 1: blood you know, that's on that foundational those foundational blocks 622 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 1: is kind of interesting to me because it's through that 623 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: if you if you go back and you think, okay, 624 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,800 Speaker 1: he laid in one spot, that gives you an idea 625 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,320 Speaker 1: as to where that bed is positioned in that room 626 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,279 Speaker 1: that this would have poured through or poured adjacent to, 627 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: which is a big reveal here. I think they're not 628 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: saying anything about defensive wounds. And here's another thing that 629 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: they don't say anything about that we've heard this so 630 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: called carving on the leg and I don't know where 631 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,439 Speaker 1: that initially came from. Maybe it does exist, it has, 632 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't stated in this document dumped to this point. 633 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,000 Speaker 1: I'd be fascinated as to know what that the origin 634 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:17,840 Speaker 1: of that source information was. 635 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,960 Speaker 2: I think about the will to live, and I think 636 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 2: about his smugness to not even really show any kind 637 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 2: of emotion or anything else. 638 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 3: It's like. 639 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 2: Kind of like Ali Gonzalvez, one of her relatives. I 640 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,799 Speaker 2: think it was their little sister that passed along an 641 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:41,399 Speaker 2: idea that you might have gotten big a's in school, Yeah, 642 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 2: going to get big d's in prison. 643 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,320 Speaker 3: There you go, Yeah. 644 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 2: You know, there is no there is no justice for 645 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,880 Speaker 2: what he did, you know, I think that's but I 646 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,760 Speaker 2: look at these wounds and I think about my own daughters. 647 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 3: That's I can't get that out of my head. I 648 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 3: think what he did to them. 649 00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: I don't think any of us can, Dave. I don't 650 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: think the nation can. Because you know now we at 651 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 1: least we've had a peek, if you will, behind the 652 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:13,000 Speaker 1: curtain as to the devastation that took place on that 653 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 1: November night in twenty twenty two, those years ago. Now 654 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,600 Speaker 1: you know, we're in twenty twenty five. Now it will 655 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:28,040 Speaker 1: almost be three years. Just as such as it is 656 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:35,320 Speaker 1: has been some time coming. It has arrived. I don't 657 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: know to what degree of satisfaction, and it doesn't really 658 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,160 Speaker 1: matter what I think about it. What I hope for, though, 659 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,560 Speaker 1: at the end of all of this, is that we 660 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:55,480 Speaker 1: take the lessons that can be learned from these horrific 661 00:45:55,520 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: circumstances and apply them so that it doesn't happen again. 662 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: And those lessons come in all forms. That come in 663 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: all forms, everything from personal security to the individuals we 664 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: are surrounded by, and I think to those people that 665 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,719 Speaker 1: support us, we need to embrace those people. We need 666 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,799 Speaker 1: to love those people that are in our lives for 667 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 1: those moments of fleeting moments that we have in life. 668 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,879 Speaker 1: Life is in fact, very very short, folks. Most people 669 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,360 Speaker 1: don't understand that, and when you are in the bloom 670 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 1: of youth, it seems as though that it will go 671 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 1: on forever and ever. But for these four lives that 672 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,840 Speaker 1: have been lost now, we can't say too much more 673 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:52,560 Speaker 1: other than they're gone, and hopefully along the way their 674 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 1: absence will be replaced by some measure of peace in 675 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 1: the hearts and minds of their family. 676 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:00,200 Speaker 2: Guys. 677 00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,279 Speaker 3: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. 678 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,279 Speaker 2: M mm hmm.