1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: there's Jerry over there. And this is Stuff you Should Know, 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: the Superstar Edition, the old timey Superstoff Edition. Yeah. Man, 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: I thought this was super cool. Tin pan Alley. Yeah, 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: this is one of those things where I've sort of 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: knew what tin pan alley was, and you always have 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: heard that term thrown around, but I never really really 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: got it until this episode. Yeah. Same here. Uh, and 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: it's pretty cool, like the term tin pan alley, t 12 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: I n full stop p A n alle You forgot 13 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: a second full stop full stop. Um. I just want 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: to make sure people know it's not one word like 15 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: tin pan It's two words. But that is linguistically speaking, 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: that's a senecto key what it is? You know what 17 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: that is? Right? I've seen the movie Man, that movie 18 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: geez Um about the Charlie Kaufman thing, right, Yeah, yeah, um, 19 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: senecta senect to key New York. Yeah, So a senect 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: the key is, uh, it's when a specific place stands 21 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 1: in for a broader term like Wall Street, like wall 22 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: streets are real street, but Wall Street also means like 23 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: the finance industry or Hollywood. Hollywoods a real place. Okay, 24 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: this makes a lot more sense than the Charlie Kaufman movie. Yeah, 25 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: so so tin pan Alley is uh is a bunch 26 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: of things. It was a place and in New York City, 27 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: which what we'll get to in a second, like exactly 28 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: where um. And it was also referred to sort of 29 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: the beginnings of the music publishing industry and a genre 30 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: as well. There's kind of a lot of things, but 31 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: it stems from the root of a tin pan, like 32 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: a tin pan or a it was a cheap piano, 33 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: Like if he had a really cheap piano, you would 34 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: say it sounds tin panty, right, because like that's what 35 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: the hammer on the piano's hitting is tin pans rather 36 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: than strings. Yeah, it sounds just like a real tinny tone, 37 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,119 Speaker 1: like you're beating on a tin pan. So that's where 38 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: the term originally came from. And depending on who you ask, 39 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: this area of New York um was called tin pan 40 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: Alley because perhaps a journalist first wrote about it. All 41 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: the sounds coming from the songwriters from these buildings on 42 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: this one block sounded like tin pan Alley. Right, it's 43 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: no exaggeration to say tin pan Alley. Specifically this little 44 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: stretch in New York like block or so maybe less 45 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: than a block. It's a it's a block, okay. Um 46 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: was the place where the American popular music industry was born. Yeah, 47 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: so it's specifically street between six and Broadway. Um, kind 48 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: of between Chelsea and Kipps Bay, a little northwest of 49 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: like the flat Iron building and Um. It's interesting to 50 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: think that, like the music, the beginnings of music distribution 51 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: wasn't like pre phonograph from pre records. There was still 52 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: music distribution, but it was it was sheet music right right, 53 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: So I think, Chuck, we should get back in the 54 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: way back and go to an indeterminate part of the 55 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century in the United States. Let's do it. So, 56 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: like you said, everywhere, there's a lot of it. Um. 57 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: It's like you said, if you wanted to hear music, 58 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: you had basically two choices. You could go here it 59 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: played live somewhere everywhere, from a barbershop quartet to maybe 60 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: an orchestra um or right, or you could have a 61 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: family member who knew how to play music and buy 62 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: a piano and of it in your home. Those were 63 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: your too, two ways to to hear music because, um, 64 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: everywhere there was no such thing as radio. Let's just 65 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: let's just say it everybody, Yeah, there was no radio. 66 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: There wasn't And if you think about it, radio was was. 67 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: You know, we we take it so much for granted today, 68 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: but it was a huge watershed change in the way 69 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: that Americans in the world heard their music. You could 70 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: just hear it at home being played by professionals like 71 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: the most the greatest musicians you've ever heard. You could 72 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: just sit around and listen to it at your home, 73 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: whereas just years before, a few years before, you had 74 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: to listen to your twelve year old try to bang 75 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: out some song on the piano that you just bought. Um, 76 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: and that was your option aside from going to hear 77 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: it live. And so this this whole idea of uh 78 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: the music industry being born, it was basically predicated on 79 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: two things, Chuck. One was the fact that pianos were 80 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: starting to become ubiquity in American houses and people were 81 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: learning how to play those pianos, so music instruction became 82 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: kind of widespread. And then Secondly, copy copyright law started 83 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: to really solidify in the United States in the nineteenth century, 84 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: and so that sheet music became much more valuable than 85 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: it was before. Yeah, like, if you can't, like I 86 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: can't read sheet music, I learned, Yeah, I learned to 87 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: play guitar by ear um and kind of I guess 88 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: every friend I know that it's a musician except for 89 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: a couple learned by ear um. If you came up 90 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: formally through high school band or something like that, um, 91 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: or maybe just private music instruction, then you may be 92 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: able to read music. But back in the day, if 93 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: you could not end still today, if you could not 94 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: play by ear the only way to do so was 95 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: through sheet music. And that was that was the first 96 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: commodity in the music business, was literally just selling sheet 97 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: music to people. Right, So it's hard to wrap your 98 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: head around now, but that was the commodity. It's hard 99 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: to wrap your head around. But if you think about 100 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: sheet music is basically the predecessor to the cassette or 101 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: the record or the CD or the MP three, it's 102 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: the exact same thing. It's just too to hear it, 103 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: Like that is what you went and bought at the 104 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: store and then you came home and played it rather 105 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: than listening to somebody else playing it. Yeah, and like 106 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: they sold a lot of them, like the very first 107 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: hit that Tin Panaley put out, And this was a period. 108 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: I mean, this was an eighty one when Wait Till 109 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: the Clouds Roll By was put out, So Tin Panaley 110 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: generally was early eighteen eighties till early nineteen twenties or 111 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: so I saw, like late nineteen twenties, was it really Yeah, yeah, 112 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: I guess you know, you can never say when it 113 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: was dead dead um. But in one month in eighteen 114 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: eighty one, they sold seventy five thousand copies of sheet 115 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: music to Wait Till the Clouds Roll By. Right, that's amazing, yeah, 116 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: because this was it was a good song, and people 117 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: wanted to hear the song, so they went and bought 118 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: the sheet music. So that was one thing, right, So 119 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: there was sheet music. That was how you got this 120 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: stuff out. And but even before Wait Till the Clouds 121 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: Roll By, which it seems like it was probably America's 122 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: first number one smash hit, prior to that, there was 123 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: plenty of sheet music to be sold. Um, but it 124 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: was a largely like church hymns. Um. It was it was. 125 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: There was a lot that were sold for schools um 126 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: and like I said, copyright law changed. It allowed tim 127 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: penalty to develop, and it did so in two ways. One, 128 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: it's like the courts started taking copyrights for music seriously 129 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: in the second half of the nineteenth century, so you 130 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: could actually enforce your copyright against people who were infringing 131 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: on it. And then secondly, the courts, the Supreme Court 132 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,239 Speaker 1: and specifically said, hey, if you wrote a song outside 133 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: of America, when it comes to him Erica it enjoys 134 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: you can copyright it in America too, which means that 135 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: the music publishers source of free sheet music, which was 136 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: just basically stealing foreign music, printing it out in sheet 137 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: music form and then selling it and not paying any 138 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: royalties because it enjoyed no copyright protection, that source dried up, 139 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: and so all of a sudden, this American music that 140 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: they they had to pay for now seemed a lot 141 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: more attractive because now they had to pay for them. 142 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: The music generated overseas too, So this copyright law and 143 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:34,599 Speaker 1: the fact that more and more people were learning to 144 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: play piano and so you had an actual market four 145 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: sheet music, those two things came together all right, let's 146 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: take a break. I feel like that's a pretty good 147 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: set up, okay, and we'll come back and talk a 148 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: little bit about who these music publishers were and how 149 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: they went about their work early on in the Tin 150 00:08:52,440 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: penn Alley era right after this. All right, So we've 151 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: been throwing around the term music publishers a lot, and 152 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: that sort of means a different thing now than it 153 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: did back then. Um. But back then music publishers. Some 154 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: of them wrote songs, to be sure, but generally they 155 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: did not. UM. A lot of the early publishers out 156 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: of Tin pan Alley had backgrounds as salespeople. So there 157 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: was a guy named very successful publisher name is Ador 158 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: wit Mark. He started out selling water filters. Another one 159 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: named Leo Feist sold corsets, another one named Joe Stern 160 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: and Edward B. Mark sold neckties and buttons. Uh. And 161 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: a lot of these people, I guess we should point 162 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: out to uh came over from Europe. A lot were Jewish, UM. 163 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: Some African American songwriters like they were minorities. Um kind 164 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: of for the most part, early on, it feels like, right, 165 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: and they they saw a huge opportunity in this music 166 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: business that was starting to coalesce because prior to this, 167 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: I mean, there were there were music publishers, but it 168 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: was basically some guy who worked at a printer who 169 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: had a friend who could transpose music by ear and 170 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: they would just take some song that they heard and 171 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: turn it into sheet music and start selling it. Or 172 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: they worked at the music store, and the music store 173 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: basically did the exact same thing. And so everyone was 174 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 1: ripping off everyone else's songs, and anybody could be a 175 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: music publisher. But when those copyrights started to become enforced, um, 176 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: it became much more valuable to invest in original music 177 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: because you could make a lot more money off of it. So, um, 178 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: those those a lot of those Jewish immigrants and a 179 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: lot of the African American songwriters and composers kind of 180 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: coalesced into New York. They came from Boston and Detroit 181 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: and Atlanta and St. Louis and all over the country, 182 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: and all those towns lost their publishing houses, um, and 183 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: they all moved to New York, and they very specifically 184 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: moved to this one little stretch on street UM, and 185 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: it became tim Pan Alley. And it's really interesting, um 186 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: to look at, like how it worked back then, and 187 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: how it sort of mirrored how music like music grew 188 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: out of that model really and change in some ways, 189 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: but kind of stayed the same in a lot of 190 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: ways too. Um. Like you always hear about music contracts 191 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,239 Speaker 1: and how terrible they are for rock musicians or pop musicians, 192 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: and it was kind of the same way back then. 193 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: These these publishers got together, they created this songwriting factory 194 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: on this block of buildings through different companies, and they 195 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: would get they would recruit songwriters to come in. They 196 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: had different arrangements. Sometimes they would just buy it outright 197 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: from you, including the rights to change the name of 198 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: who wrote it. Uh. Sometimes they would have the right 199 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: to throw one of the other more I guess once 200 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: they had you know, established themselves another co author's name 201 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: on there. But they would just you know, say, write 202 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: these songs. Write these songs, and we're gonna buy them 203 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: from you, and we're gonna try and make them pop. 204 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: Like you couldn't put them on the radio, so we're 205 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: gonna try and get them popular by getting them onto 206 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: vaudeville and on stage and sending not moles, I guess. 207 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 1: But it was almost like early Paola, uh, sending these 208 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: performers into vaudeville to sing these songs and perform these songs, 209 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: and people are like, wow, that's pretty catchy. I want that, right. 210 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: That's how they that's how they marketed it, and that 211 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 1: was like the whole thing, like if if you, It 212 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: was the first time that the music became an industry 213 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: because there was almost an assembly line field to it 214 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: where they would have feelers out to find out like 215 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: what people were into a music at the time. One 216 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: of the one of the early transitions that Tim Panali 217 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: underwent was when it started, Um it was a it 218 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: was a factory churning out like comedic, often deeply racist songs, 219 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: UM lots of ballads, uh, just what you think of 220 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: a super old timey songs, right, And then the public 221 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: started to get kind of bored with that and they 222 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: decided that they kind of like this ragtime thing that 223 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: the Scott Joplin fella has um has started to create. 224 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: And so Tim Panaley this is classic. Tim Panalty went 225 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: out figured out how to play ragtime, started co opting 226 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: the ragtime genre and created pop music. So they took 227 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: what was a really difficult um kind of music. It's 228 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: called syncopated rhythm where you've got a melody within a rhythm, right, So, um, 229 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: you know ragtime, right, Okay, So they figured out how 230 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: to take this very difficult thing and kind of popify 231 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: it to make it easy for uh, the audience to play. 232 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: Because again, here's the thing. They're not saying, Hey, you're 233 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: the best of the best studio musician. We've got this 234 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: really tough song over here that sounds great, but it's 235 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: really tough to play. We want to pay you to 236 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: come play it. We're going to record it and distribute 237 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: it onto the radio that didn't exist yet. They had 238 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: to figure out how to take difficult songs kind of 239 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: dumb them down into something catchy and memorable and importantly 240 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: easy to play, so that they could sell that sheet 241 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: music to local musicians or those barbershop cortets, or so 242 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: that the twelve year old at home could play it 243 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: for the rest of their family. And so that is 244 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: how they kind of started to take popular music and 245 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: make it even more popular. They decided what music was 246 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: popular based on what what the what America was starting 247 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: to get into at the time. Yeah, and they would, um, 248 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: there were these musicians called song pluggers. So how it 249 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: would work is a music publisher and Tin Panaley would 250 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: um buy a song or the rights to a song 251 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: off of them of a musician who wrote it, maybe 252 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: put their own name on it, and then they would 253 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: give that song to a song plugger who was a 254 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: musician who would go and perform this at a music 255 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: shop that maybe sold pianos or something like that. And 256 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: this was pre radio. How they got the music out 257 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: in the public. Uh, and it was it was crazy. 258 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: These song pluggers got money. Irving Berlin started out as 259 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: a song plugger, right and so um, it's kind of 260 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: like if you you know how you go to a 261 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: grocery store on a Saturday and they'll be sitting there 262 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: giving out samples of something and you'll say, oh, this 263 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: this cheese with this cracker tastes really good. I'm gonna 264 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: go buy this cheese and these crackers. This is the 265 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: exact same thing, except you would say, oh, this song 266 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: sounds really good, I'm going to buy the sheet music. 267 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: That's what music pluggers were for. That's how they got 268 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: the word out. They that's how they advertised the music 269 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: was to play them. And then another way to do 270 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: it check is like you were saying, they would set 271 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: vaudeville shows up or musical reviews or Broadway shows whatever 272 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: with these popular songs and these songwriters to to help 273 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: get them out that way too, so that audiences would 274 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: go hear these things. So you could hear him in 275 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: the music shop, you could hear him at the theater. 276 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: Um you uh, you might hear them. Um well, it's 277 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: basically it is the theater in the music shop where 278 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: the two main venues less I'm forgetting what yeah, and 279 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: they would That was the plugging, But there was also booming. So, 280 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: like I said, you had Irving Berlin, and like George 281 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: Gershwin started out as a song plugger, Al Sherman started 282 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: out as a song plugger. But if you wanted to 283 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: be more aggressive than that, even you would do something 284 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: called booming, which is uh, you would buy like tickets 285 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: to a show. You would have the plugger up there 286 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: playing the song, and then those twenty five people were 287 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: plants basically that already knew the song, that would sing 288 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: along to it, and then everyone, you know, the only 289 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: thing better than hearing a great song for the first 290 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: time in you know, nineteen ten in New York City 291 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: is hearing people around you singing it and you're thinking, 292 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: how have I been missing out on this thing? And 293 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: that may be the first time it was ever performed 294 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: in public, and it was all just a big, kind 295 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: of a big scam. It was. It's hilarious though that 296 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: that's how you just look around and suddenly be overcome 297 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: with fomo. So you'd be into this new song and 298 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: run out and buy the sheet music, I guess, um So, 299 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: so there's there was this process to all this, and 300 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 1: like you said, like you could be a like a 301 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: no name composer who would show up at Tim Panaley 302 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: with the song that you're trying to sell and if 303 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: it was good, the publisher might buy it, but like 304 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: you said, you would get some sort of terrible contractor 305 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: they would buy it out right, take your name off 306 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: of the composition and put their own name on there. 307 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: But they also um hired composers I think, like you 308 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: were saying to where they were they were they had 309 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: they had a few hits under their belts, so they 310 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: had a steady gig at the music publisher and their 311 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: contract was a little better, but they were not in 312 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: creative control for the most part, to where the music 313 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: publisher would say, hey, everybody's into this ragtime. Make me 314 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: some ragtime songs. Everybody's into jazz and this blues stuff. 315 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: Make me some bluesy kind of stuff that I can 316 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: turn around and sell. And the competition was really fierce 317 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: among the in house composers, because just because you composed 318 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: a song doesn't mean it was going to be turned 319 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: around and transcribed into sheet music and then people would 320 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: buy it. Like you, you you had to basically audition your 321 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: song to see whether it made it to the next level. 322 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: And so in tim Panaley, and this is where it 323 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 1: got its name, there would be you know, no name composers, 324 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: house composers, vaudeville acts um all running around playing music 325 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: from these open windows because there wasn't air conditioning back then. 326 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: And so at any given time you'd walk down tim 327 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: Panaley and there'd be a dozen or scores of different 328 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: songs all being played on these pianos, streaming out of 329 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: the windows onto the street at the same time. And 330 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: that's where that that reporter Monroe Rosenfeld came up with 331 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: the idea of tim Panale said when he was walking 332 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: down the street, he was kind of describing what that 333 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: was like. He said, it sounded like, you know, a 334 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: bunch of tim pants being struck at once. Yeah, and 335 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: this this whole area of New York, this one block 336 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: just really became like a creative well. There were uh, 337 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: vaudeville theaters, there were play theaters, like it was sort 338 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: of the earliest incarnation of the theater district before it 339 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: moved towards Times Square. Uh. And then other parts of 340 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: the entertainment industry obviously are drawn to that area. UM 341 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: Variety Magazine that's where it first popped up on that 342 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: block when it was called the Clipper. Uh. The William 343 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: Morris Talent Agency had an office on that block, and 344 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: it was just sort of the you know, after I 345 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: think Boston, Chicago, Cincinnati, and I think one other city 346 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: kind of where the early seats of the early music industry. 347 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: It all roundly landed in New York and just such 348 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: a creative area and era. It's so neat to think about, too, 349 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: because that's happened in places before. Where if you take 350 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: a bunch of creative people and jam them into a 351 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: small area, just amazing stuff of happens. Like you can 352 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: do something as big as birth a genre of music, 353 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: or like pop music, which is like an umbrella. It's 354 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: not even a genre. There's genres underneath pop music, you know, 355 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: where something that big can happen when you get that 356 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: many creative people together in one place. Should we take 357 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: another break? Sure? Alright, let's take another break, and we'll 358 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: talk about some of these songs of these composers. Uh 359 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: in the Great American Songbook right after this. Alright, So 360 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: there's money being made, yeah, dad, a lot of money, 361 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: even for early on. I mean, I can't imagine what 362 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: sheep music costs, but they were selling so much of it, 363 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: um it added up um. Irving Berlin, I mean he 364 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: went on to start his own music publishing business, but 365 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: early on, when he was just pumping out tunes and 366 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: nineteen seventeen, he made about a hundred thousand dollars a 367 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: year in royalties. Yeah, that's that's dollars too, right, Yeah, 368 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: And these songs like these are some standards. You know. 369 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: It's what's known as the Standard American Songbook. Um, just 370 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,959 Speaker 1: like it's an unofficial designation, but they're considered to be 371 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: like the classics of the earlier early twentieth century. Like, 372 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: I mean, we all still know these songs, stuff like uh, 373 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: Ain't She Sweet? I don't know. Ain't she sweet? You're 374 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: mucking down the street? What you don't know? That song? No, 375 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: that one I've not heard. Oh boy, do you know 376 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: baby face? Yes, got the cutest little baby face. Yes. 377 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: I love that song. It makes me smiling by the 378 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: light of the silvery moon. Give my regards to Broadway. 379 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: Happy days are here again over there. A lot of 380 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,959 Speaker 1: this had to do with like wartime, early wartime stuff. 381 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 1: Sweet Georgia Brown, Take Me out to the ball game? Yeah, 382 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: and that that in particular, we gotta say that was 383 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: written by two guys, um Jack Norworth and Albert von 384 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: tilser Um and they've never they've never seen a ball 385 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: game before. Well maybe that's what they were saying, but though, yeah, 386 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: take me out to the ball game because I've never 387 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: been exactly, And they changed that line. But that was 388 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: so tim panale, like where it's like everybody's into baseball 389 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: right now, so let's make a song about baseball. YouTube. 390 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: We've never seen a baseball game, it doesn't matter. Make 391 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: make me a song. And that's that's how to take 392 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: Me Out to the ball Game was formed. Yeah, and 393 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: I think under one of the like you said earlier, 394 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: some of the earliest work with like kind of humorous 395 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: comedy songs. One that still stands out today, I believe 396 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: from that genre is Yes, we Have No Bananas, which 397 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: always thought was kind of funny when I was a kid. 398 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: It's a little funny, and I guess I still do 399 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 1: if I'm being honest. Um. There was also uh yeah, 400 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: you can go down this line. And there's some pretty 401 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: substantial songs that were written during this time, and not 402 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: all of them were stand alone. A lot of them, 403 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: like I said earlier, were created for musical reviews. Um, 404 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: America the Beautiful was written by Irving Berlin for a 405 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: musical review called Yip Yip Yap Hank, which no one 406 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: has heard of. No one does that anymore, but um, 407 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: it was. It was meant to be performed and produced 408 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: by soldiers that had an eight show run. But um, 409 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,479 Speaker 1: the song, obviously, America the Beautiful has survived long beyond 410 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: that because it became an American standard. So like these 411 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: these vehicles that were built around to kind of get 412 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: the song out there to the public faded away, but 413 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: the songs themselves have stood the test of time. Yeah. Absolutely, 414 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: I think he pulled it from that production or was 415 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: it in the original production or did he pull it. 416 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: I think it was in the original one. Well, he 417 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: eventually pulled it out of the production then because he 418 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: thought it was too sentimental. And then that song went 419 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,239 Speaker 1: on to be the one that everyone remembers. Yeah, you're right, 420 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: you're right. I'm sorry it didn't show up in there. 421 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: But you also said so. You mentioned Irving Berlin forming 422 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: his own publishing house. Um, he was a quintessential rags 423 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: to riches story for Tim Panaley, where he was like 424 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: a waiter in a cafe. Um became a song plugger, 425 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: one of those guys who plays songs to basically his marketing. 426 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: UM couldn't reach eat music, knew everything by ear Um 427 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: had a friend transposed the songs he came up with 428 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: into into actual written music. A little factoid there that 429 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 1: Irving Berlin couldn't read or write music, right, Um. And 430 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: then he became a well known composer. And then he 431 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 1: became such a well known composer he opened his own 432 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: publishing house and then started making a hundred thousand dollars 433 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: a year in royalties. There was another guy named Charles K. 434 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 1: Harris who was one of the earlier success stories. I 435 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: think in eight nine three or two, he had a 436 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: song called After the Ball, and he just knew it 437 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: was a gem because he offered to a publisher and 438 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: they offered him a price for it that he was like, 439 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: that's way too low. I'm going to set up my 440 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: own publishing house. And he did, and he started selling 441 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: it um and was making something like twenty five thousand 442 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: dollars a week eighteen nineties money, which is like seven 443 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: hundred grand a week. This guy just went from nobody 444 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: to seven grand a week, ended up selling five million 445 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: copies of his song After the Ball. And if you 446 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: listen to it now, it's not that good. Frankly, it's 447 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: not but but bully for him, you know, it's no 448 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: ancient suite. No, uh yeah, it's amazing, man. People like 449 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: popular music hit the world like, you know, like a 450 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: lightning bolt from the beginning. Yes, because it was so 451 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: ultra tailored for the American public. Like again, they would 452 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: take Ragtime, which was a Scott Joplin creation. And Scott 453 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: Joplin was the son of a slave. He was an 454 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: African American. A lot of people thought he was white. 455 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: Still to this day, a lot of people think he 456 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: was white. I think because of his his name frankly um. 457 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: And it was the predecessor ragtime was the predecessor to jazz. 458 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: And it had like a real like feel to a 459 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: real soul that everybody's heard, like some of the original 460 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: ragtime music, like the entertainer Maple Leaf rag And if 461 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: you can't immediately bring those to mind, just go to 462 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: YouTube and you'll be like, Okay, of course I get that. Um. 463 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: But the idea that that Tim Panaley could just kind 464 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: of come along and take this cool, deep soulful music 465 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: and popify it basically to make it palatable to audiences, 466 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,239 Speaker 1: in particular white audiences who had the most money at 467 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: the time. Um, that was why it would why why 468 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: it became so successful. It was almost dumbed down. It 469 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: was music that was dumbed down in a way to 470 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: make it appealed to as many people as possible. Yeah, 471 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: or even worse, uh, by white publish shows and producers 472 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: to be used in minstrel shows. Yeah, this version of music, 473 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: this new genre of music that was so unique in 474 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: the Harlem Renaissance by Scott Joplin was co opted for 475 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: minstrel shows. So shameful. Yes, So there's a real debate 476 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: going on now about the legacy of tim Panale in 477 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: some ways, um, and some people point to it and say, look, 478 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: these guys were churning out the most eye popping lee 479 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: racist songs that the America has ever come up with. 480 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: They were they were coming, they were selling them to 481 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: the masses, and in doing this, because this was the 482 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: origin of popular music, they were really effectively perpetuating racial 483 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: stereotypes and embedding them more than they ever had been 484 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 1: before because people were not being mass audiences were being 485 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: reached like they were with this early sheet music. And 486 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: so in this in this respect, the tim Panale doesn't 487 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: deserve to be revered or respected or to be made 488 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: it as a historical landmark as the real fight. Yeah. 489 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: That that's like as recently as like late last month, 490 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: I believe, Chuck, there was a Landmark Commission City Landmark 491 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: Commission meeting where this was being debated, right. Well, yeah, 492 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: and so like you said, some people were saying that 493 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: on one hand, other people are saying, yeah, but so 494 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: many of these were Jewish immigrants, uh, an ethnic minority. 495 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: So many of them were African American songwriters, and tim 496 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: Panaley was also the home to the first black owned 497 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: and operated music publishing business in the country. Yeah, some 498 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: people are saying, look like, yes, it was taken and 499 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: co opted to be popular, but so were operettas and ballots, 500 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: like that's just what they did. It wasn't it wasn't 501 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: meant to be offensive to UM African Americans. And as 502 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, it was basically these Jewish immigrants 503 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: saying I kind of identify with your plate. I want 504 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: to preserve and celebrate this and expose this music to 505 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: as many people as possible. And that some people pointed 506 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: this process in tim panale as the way that um, 507 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: the African American arts became um exposed to the larger 508 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: the larger population of America at the time. Yeah, it's 509 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: pretty interesting. Yeah, so that that debates going on, that's 510 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: where the idea of whether or not this area should 511 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: be designated as an historic landmark is falling, right. Yeah, 512 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: And like you said, it's kind of hard to pinpoint 513 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: an actual death date of tin Pan Alley because these 514 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: things like that happened gradually over time, but technology, like 515 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: uh it has so many other times kind of killed 516 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: the notion of Tin Pan Alley, didn't it. Well, that's 517 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: a really good point right, the radio. It was the 518 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,959 Speaker 1: radio radio killed the old timey sheet music star, and 519 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: the video killed the radio star right exactly. So again, 520 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: you didn't need to make sheet music any longer, or 521 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: you certainly didn't have to learn to play sheet music 522 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: at home if you wanted to enjoy music, if you 523 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: could just buy a radio, people quit buying piano those 524 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's kind of sad, it is said. It 525 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: would be nice if everybody was walking around and knew 526 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: how to play a piano, like hotel lounges would be 527 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: a lot more interesting, right, But that's I mean. Once 528 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: the radio came along, everybody said, so long cheap music. 529 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: I hated you all along, but you are my only option. 530 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: Now I can listen to like Benny Goodman and all 531 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: of these other cats who are super hip and really 532 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: good at what they're doing, and I want to I 533 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: want to listen to their their music. And not only 534 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: did technology killed Tim Panale in this sheet music publishing industry, 535 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: but it also changed the genre a little bit. It 536 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: kind of skewed it more into swing and um some 537 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: of this yeah big band, some of the stuff that 538 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: came out of the thirties onward, Um, or that was 539 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: really kind of where that transition went. Yeah, have you 540 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: ever been somewhere where they have a public piano and 541 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: seeing someone just walk by and sit down and blow mines? 542 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: Didn't you see Greg Allman do that? God? No, if 543 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: you know someone who saw that, please try and remember 544 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: who it was, because I need to hear that story. 545 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: I'll try to remember. I can't remember who it was. 546 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing. Okay, I don't think I'm making this up. 547 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: Let me, let me, let me go specific mental role 548 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: of decks. But have you ever seen that? Sure, just 549 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: like you're I mean not Greg Almond, but I've just 550 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: seen your regular average person sit down at a piano. 551 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: And like, while someone uh New York does this from 552 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: time to time, they'll have them on a sidewalker in 553 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: a park or something. And in Atlanta they have one 554 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: over in Atlantic Station. I've seen people do it there, uh, 555 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: and it's always just really cool. And that makes me 556 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: miss the fact that piano, Like a lot more people 557 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: used to learn piano than they do now. I think 558 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: I would love to know how to play the piano 559 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: to for that very reason, because I'd love to be 560 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: able to sit down and just want to be that 561 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: guy so bad, right, someday, it's not too late. I 562 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: remember the first time I saw it was that a 563 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,239 Speaker 1: student council retreat in high school. That was this one. Uh. 564 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: You know, all the student councils from the county get 565 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: together over the course of a weekend or a weekend 566 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: do stupid stuff um, and learned about leadership um. But 567 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: there was this there's always like this one guy on 568 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: student council at another school. You're like, man, he didn't 569 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: seem like a student council type. He seems like he's thirty. 570 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: And this guy did uh, and he was on student 571 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: council at some other school. But he was like, you know, 572 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: I had like the rat T shirt and it was 573 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: just sort of a like a dirty metal head bad 574 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: boy of student counts. He totally was. And there was 575 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: a piano and one of the lobbies of the dormitories 576 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: where we stayed at Barry College in Rome, Georgia, And 577 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: on the very last day there were a bunch of 578 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: people hanging out in there and this dude goes over 579 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: and sits down and just crushes it. And I remember 580 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: seeing the girls in the room and thinking that guy 581 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: has got it. All going on, like that's the key 582 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: man and that boy and the rat t shirt grew 583 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: up to be Greg allman. Have you have you ever 584 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: been to a sig Goold's Request Room? Um? You His 585 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: friend Joe McGinty owns it, he's co owner of it, 586 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: and he plays piano there. It's just like sing along 587 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: piano karaoke and it is amazing. I cannot believe you 588 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: haven't been there yet. You have? So does one person 589 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: play the piano and everyone sings along? Joe McGinty plays, 590 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: and then no, they like like, people can sing along 591 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: if you want, but it's really one person going out 592 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: there and doing karaoke with Joe accompanying you on the piano. Okay, 593 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: well I've done I've done the rock and Roll Live 594 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: Man karaoke before. Oh yeah here in Atlanta, which is 595 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: a lot of fun. Um, what do you what do 596 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: you do that? Uh? Somewhere in the Highlands I think 597 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: the Dark Horse maybe. Okay, yeah, that sounds right. Yeah. 598 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: I went for my birthday a couple of years ago 599 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: and did Cheap Tricks Surrender and uh did a pretty 600 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: good job, if I may say so. Is that surrender parentheses? 601 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: Dream Police those are two different songs. Okay, is it 602 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: surrender parentheses? I want you to Want Me? Yeah, that's 603 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: the one. I've heard that song, but it's funny. At 604 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: the one in Atlanta, there's uh, you know the DJ 605 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: English Nick. No? Wait, was he on like the radio 606 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: like radio DJ? Yeah, he still has English Nick. In Atlanta, 607 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: he hosted and he is the the emergency back up 608 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: if you're no good, because being bad at karaoke is 609 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 1: no fun, but being bad at live bank karaoke it's 610 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: really no fun for anyone. So he stands back there 611 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: and if you're not very good, he's singing along with 612 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: you and he will just give the signal to sort 613 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: of do a little upping of his vocals and lowering 614 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: of the other vocals. Is it like the the slice 615 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,439 Speaker 1: across your neck like that? No? I mean I think 616 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: it's just like an eye signal. And uh, I remember 617 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,359 Speaker 1: being nervous. I was like, oh, man, if they if 618 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: they bring up English Nick during surrendering and be mortified. 619 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: But they didn't. And afterward he gave me a nod 620 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 1: like a good job. But oh you got the nod 621 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: from English Nick. Yeah, that means a lot. I have 622 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,280 Speaker 1: the opposite story. What happened. I went to Claremont Lounge 623 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: to do karaoke years back, chose to do Darling Nikki. 624 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: Oh interesting. In the middle, the karaoke DJ breaks in 625 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 1: and goes, It's like William Shatton are singing, isn't it? 626 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: Oh my god? You was their supporting dancing just but 627 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: but really just hanging on by her fingernails. You know, 628 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: you gotta stopped an insulted mid song, mid song, but 629 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: I finished Buddy Good. Yeah. I would literally pay a 630 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: hundred dollars to have seen that. I wager that it 631 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: would have been worth two fifty. Okay, it was pretty 632 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: pretty bad. Do we have anything else on Tin Pan Alley? 633 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: I forgot what's what we were talking about, Chuck, Well, 634 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: we should. We're not gonna get into it here. We 635 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,320 Speaker 1: should do a full show on ASCAP though. Yeah, because 636 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: yet another thing that early Irving Berlin did was create 637 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: as CAP, the American Society of Composers and Performers, Right, 638 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: I think producers, producers Okay, man, I didn't even have 639 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,280 Speaker 1: it in front of me, but um, they basically protect 640 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: and register copyrights for artists. Yeah, it's so convoluted to 641 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: these days. Yeah, yeah, I think it definitely deserves its 642 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: own thing. But that was another thing that was born 643 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: out of Tim pan Alley. Yeah, and you know what, 644 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: I am living in the future now because I have 645 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: a turntable now finally again after many many years of 646 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: not having one that I can play wirelessly throughout all 647 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: the speakers in my home. Oh, isn't that amazing? That 648 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: is the future for sure, that you can actually do 649 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: that and it sounds great. And now I just went 650 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: to the record store for the first time in a 651 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: long time yesterday and bought thirteen records. I traded in 652 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: probably five dred CDs to get records. He was like, 653 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: I'll give you a hundred and thirty bucks for the 654 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: lot and I was like, fine, fine, just get these 655 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: stupid nineties CDs away from me. Now. They were great, 656 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: but it was just I felt like I should pay 657 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: him to take all these off my hands. Did you 658 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 1: still have the jewel cases? Oh? Yeah, they were all 659 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: something that jeweled up. And so, yeah, I bought records 660 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: for the first time. And I'm going to make that 661 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: a when we go on tour now and when I 662 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: traveling and make it a point to go into local 663 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: record stores again. I think that's great. I really really 664 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: had a good time thumbing through records. It was a 665 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 1: lot of fun. I'll go with you, text me, yeah, 666 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,439 Speaker 1: let's do it. Okay. I think that's it for tim Panale. 667 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: R I p Tim Panale. Depending on your viewpoint, I 668 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: guess yeah, there needs to be a great Another was 669 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 1: a movie in the forties called tin Panale. But someone 670 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: should do a really good uh look at the early 671 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,760 Speaker 1: burgeoning film I'm sorry movie into almost oh boy music 672 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,919 Speaker 1: industry about tin Panalely it'd be oh yeah, that would 673 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: be great. There's so many characters involved. Just put Hugh 674 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: Jackman in a Sharknado in it. And and by the way, 675 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: you got called out for bringing back bread. I did. 676 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: I said in it was some episode that I think 677 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:00,879 Speaker 1: the diving bell up is so that we should bring 678 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 1: bread back. And I guess that's what the kids all say. Now. 679 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: I didn't realize that, but like at least ten people 680 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: emailed and said, yeah, millennials are talking about getting that bread. 681 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: It's like they are. I guess so. I like to 682 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: think that I had absolutely nothing to do with that. 683 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: But but you were the seed do you think so? 684 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: You never know? Man, that'd be cool. Before we go 685 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: to the chuck, I do have one more thing. I 686 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: have to give a shout out to what I considered 687 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 1: the greatest song to come out of Tim Panaley Um. 688 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: And I believe it was an Irving Berlin song. Yeah 689 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: it was Let's have another cup of coffee? Have you 690 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: heard that we use that for something? Didn't we? I 691 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: don't remember. We probably did because it's prominent in one 692 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: of my favorite movies of all time, Paper Moon. That 693 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 1: was a great song. I love that song so much. Um. 694 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: If you haven't ever heard that song, go listen to 695 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 1: it because it's one of the most just blindly optimistic 696 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: songs of all time and it's about coffee, yea and pie. Okay, 697 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 1: now that's it. Now I've got nothing else. If you 698 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: want to know more about tim pan aale uh, you 699 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: can go read up on it and maybe follow whether 700 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 1: it's going to get designated as in New Story Clan 701 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: mark or not. We'll find out. In the meantime, it's 702 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 1: time for a listener mail. So this is just a 703 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: very sweet email from someone. Hey, guys, I'm sure you're 704 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: ceving emails like this all the time, but I would 705 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: be remiss if I didn't thank you for all the 706 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,839 Speaker 1: wonderful work you do. I've had a really tough time 707 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: with mental illness, and there have been a lot of 708 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: nights your wonderful podcast staved off panic attacks or worse. 709 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: Thank you for keeping me calm and educated, and thank 710 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: you for making me feel safe even in perilous circumstances. 711 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: Thank you for giving me something to talk about when 712 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 1: my depression has kept me in a fog. Without your 713 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: massive backlog and seemingly endless supply of fresh, fascinating subjects, 714 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,240 Speaker 1: I surely would be lost. I spend some time researching, 715 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 1: and I can truly appreciate just how much time and 716 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: energy go into becoming familiar enough with something to explain 717 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 1: it as accinctly as you guys do your superheroes and 718 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: rock Star. From the bottom of my heart, thank you 719 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: for the wonderful work you do. You've truly saved me. 720 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: Kindest and warmest regards, Georgia. And that's really lovely, Georgia. 721 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 1: If we're ever in a town near you, you are 722 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: guests listed. Yes, Wow, Chuck, I think that was a 723 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: really good, good idea. Thanks a lot, Georgia. That was 724 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: very sweet email. We appreciate it. We're glad we could 725 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 1: help in some some small measure. Thank you very much 726 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: for the kudos. Uh, if you want to send us kudos, 727 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 1: we love that kind of thing, including kudos. The candy bar. Yeah, 728 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: I remember that the kudos. They were great. Yeah. Um. 729 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: Actually I don't know if if somebody sent us one, 730 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: if it would still be so great. Are they not around? No? 731 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: I think like they would have been manufactured in six 732 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: or something like then. I don't keep up with the 733 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: candy bar scene. That's what I'm saying. They're not around anymore, 734 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: you know, I know. Okay, so uh wow, that was 735 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: a little sidetrack on kudos whatnot. If you want to 736 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: get in touch with us, you can go onto stuff 737 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: you Should Know dot com and find all of our 738 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: social links there, and you can also send us an 739 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:07,359 Speaker 1: email to stuff podcast at I heart radio dot com. 740 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: M Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeart 741 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 1: Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 742 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 743 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. H