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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Saren Yobe is Saren over here?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Hey, listen, pal, Yes, you know it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: That robe you're wearing.

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 3: Okay? Whatever? I got dressed today? Look, God, somebody did,

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Speaker 3: Yes I do, Elizabeth, thank you for asking Barbara Ernie.

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Speaker 3: You ever heard of her?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: Really, I don't know. Maybe you're in the crime storytelling business.

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Speaker 3: You've never heard of her. I've never heard of her either.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So she was a woman from Liechtenstein, and she was

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Speaker 3: known for being someone who would rob in so kind

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Speaker 3: of like a highwayman, but she did it like highway

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Speaker 3: woman style. So she went into the inn and robbed

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Speaker 3: them there. It's brilliant.

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Speaker 2: Okay, highway women are doing it for themselves.

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Speaker 3: Oh dude, you know it now. Her nickname, her street

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Speaker 3: name was Golden Booze b o o s Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: Golden Booze. So Golden Booze. She was like, you know,

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Speaker 3: hanging around Lichtenstein, you know, doing her things. This woman

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Speaker 3: had just apparently striking red blonde hair, and she used

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Speaker 3: to always travel with this treasure chest or a backpack

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Speaker 3: either one. So either she had like a traveling chest

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Speaker 3: or a backpack, and she'd chump in an hand and

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Speaker 3: she go, I must have my backpack or my travel

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Speaker 3: chest be locked in the nicest room you have. He's

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Speaker 3: inside of it is a priceless treasure, and I cannot

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Speaker 3: have one of these highwaymen possibly or bandits, or is

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Speaker 3: one of your local thieves stealing it. This is the

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Speaker 3: seventeen hundred, so like mid eighteenth century, so like yeah,

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Speaker 3: like seventeen sixties, seventeen fifties, and uh so anyway, so

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Speaker 3: she's seventeen seventies whatever, you know. So anyway, so she's

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Speaker 3: sitting there, she was she would stay in the best room,

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Speaker 3: it's right, not her, her stuff would stay in the

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Speaker 3: best room. And then she would just stay in some

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Speaker 3: other room. Meanwhile, inside of her luggage or her trunk

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Speaker 3: or her backpack was a little person. They would crawl

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Speaker 3: out of the backpack or out of the trunk. They

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Speaker 3: would rob the room blind. They would put all the

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Speaker 3: stuff in the trunk or the backpack with them. Then

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Speaker 3: they would be handed the backpack or a trunk. The

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Speaker 3: next morning, part barbora Ernie would bounce out with their

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Speaker 3: backpack and little man and be gone with a fortune,

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Speaker 3: and they did this over and over again, and just

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Speaker 3: she did it so long she got rich off of

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Speaker 3: doing it. Wow, Yeah she was. She was like a confidence.

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Speaker 2: Queen for other people, keeping their stuff in this nice room.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, whatever is in that nice room, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: like candlestick holders, whatever. They got silver everywhere, they got

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Speaker 3: gold things everywhere, so grabbing like frames for pictures. I

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Speaker 3: don't know what they do. They got candlestick holders are

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Speaker 3: right everywhere. They didn't have electricity. Now many candlestick holders

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Speaker 3: you had to have in a room. They're all silver

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Speaker 3: and gold, money sitting on tables exactly. They're taking everything

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Speaker 3: they can. And they eventually got caught. And the dude

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Speaker 3: never got caught. She got caught, and then you know

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Speaker 3: that she had a terrible end.

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Speaker 2: But did he ever get out of the suitcase?

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Speaker 3: Of course he got in the suitcase.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that's why they didn't catch him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, he's stuck. They we still don't know

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Speaker 3: his name. We only know her name. Isn't that ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: That is genius, so ridiculous, and I love it. You

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Speaker 2: want to know what else is ridiculous? Stealing something old

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Speaker 2: one hundred million years old? Why This is Ridiculous Crime,

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Speaker 2: a podcast about absurd and outrageous caper's heists and cons.

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Speaker 2: It's always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: Oh you damn right.

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Speaker 2: Were you into dinosaurs as a kids? Arin?

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Speaker 3: Do you see me sitting there? Yes, I was into dining.

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Speaker 3: I am one of those kids who was into all

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Speaker 3: of the things. I wanted to be a marine biologist.

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Speaker 3: I was into dinosaurs, yes, dip a fourth.

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Speaker 2: I never got into it beyond thinking that, like the

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Speaker 2: t rex was pretty cool. Sure, that's about as far

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Speaker 2: as I went. But you know, there are kids like

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Speaker 2: you or who can name all sorts of obscure, tongue

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Speaker 2: twisting kinds of dinos. I wonder what makes dinosaurs so

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Speaker 2: compelling to kids.

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Speaker 3: I think it's the memorization.

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Speaker 2: Really, I think it's like the real life monster I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: But there's a lot of animals that qualify for me

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Speaker 3: if you think about it right, and you find kids

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Speaker 3: to get into a lot of animals. But then the

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Speaker 3: challenge of all the is you exactly said, it's the

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Speaker 3: tongue twisting names and being able to know those. It's

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Speaker 3: like one of your first things you can master as

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Speaker 3: a little smart kid, you know, as my thought. And

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Speaker 3: then obviously there's the majesty of these big thunder lizards

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Speaker 3: or whatever. I mean, that's cool.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you, you know what, something I'm just not

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Speaker 2: comfortable speculating about this, Okay, so I'll just leave it.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I'm just speculating on myself.

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm just messing with you. So dinosaur fossils,

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Speaker 2: they have been unearthed on every continent on the planet.

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Speaker 3: Cool.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of which, I have a challenge for the rude dudes.

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Speaker 2: Years ago when I say on the planet. Years ago,

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Speaker 2: my brother and I saw a sort of viral video.

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Speaker 2: It was like in the early days of viral videos

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Speaker 2: where a dad is frustrated with something dumb or like

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Speaker 2: weird that this kid did and he asks him are

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Speaker 2: you on the planet? And Travis Dutton and I quote

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Speaker 2: this all the time, but we can't find the original video.

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Speaker 2: So if this rings a bell, shoot it on over

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Speaker 2: to us.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, I just recently did this with he was out

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Speaker 3: all night with the Grand Marquis, which is a commercial.

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Speaker 3: It was a line from a commercial that my family

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Speaker 3: always says, she was out all night with the Grand

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Speaker 3: marquis not that grand marquee and then they pan over

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Speaker 3: to a car. It doesn't matter. It's like a So

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Speaker 3: I know, Zach, I got to show my family. I

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Speaker 3: was like, what the YouTube has?

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Speaker 2: Everybody here's as much more friend are you on the

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Speaker 2: planet as each other? So dino's are dino bones all

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Speaker 2: over the planet. Uh, some places have more than others.

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Speaker 2: The best places to find them are in deserts or

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Speaker 2: bad lands, you know, dry Texas, Yeah, Texas. So the

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Speaker 2: best of the locations are North America, Texas, China.

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Speaker 3: China is good, Argentina, Brazil, Yeah, particularly rich in fossils

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Speaker 3: parts of Russia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. One found in Brazil was a carnivorous creature

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Speaker 2: called the irritator Irritator Challengery. In fact, it was named

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Speaker 2: after Professor's sister, Professor Challenger from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's

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Speaker 2: nineteen twelve novel The Lost World. Yeah, bring it all,

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Speaker 2: Irritator Challengerry. And then there's Ubii Jara jubatis, what'd you

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Speaker 2: call me? It's a one hundred and ten million year

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Speaker 2: old dinosaur fossil that was found in Brazil. Uberi Jara

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Speaker 2: translates to Lord of the spear or mained lord of

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Speaker 2: the spear. And it's from Brazil's indigenous Tupi language and

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Speaker 2: the Latin word for crest. Oh.

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Speaker 3: Cool.

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Speaker 2: And it was believed it was probably a predatory dinosaur,

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Speaker 2: about four and a half feet from snout to tail,

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Speaker 2: but only standing thirteen to fourteen inches from shoulder to

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Speaker 2: the ground. This is a little baby, a long baby.

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Speaker 2: It was long but little, and it weighed about the

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Speaker 2: same as like a turkey or a large chicken.

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Speaker 3: Has weighed the same as that. Yeah, wow, okay, kind of.

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Speaker 2: Light for such a long way. Uberrajara.

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Speaker 3: I always think of lizards being heavier than birds, right, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why that is. The bird bones, you know,

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Speaker 2: make it all lightweight. Ubert Jara apparently similar to Indonesia's

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Speaker 2: standard wing bird of Paradise, which also had really like

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Speaker 2: exaggerated shoulder feathers used for display. You know, if you're

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Speaker 2: into that sort of.

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Speaker 3: Thing, some people like to steal them.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't possibly speculate. Researchers thought that studying uberi jara

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Speaker 2: might help explain why birds like peacocks get their flair

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Speaker 2: for the dramatic Oh so that goes back in time.

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Speaker 2: One particular specimen, our Uberijara for the sake of this tail,

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Speaker 2: had the neck and backbones. This specimen some rib bones,

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Speaker 2: a complete four limb, and lumps of what's called grave

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Speaker 2: wax body fats.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, interesting, So basically body fats that congealed in

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Speaker 3: a way that they were preserved.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, into this waxy substance. The fossil attracted special attention.

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Speaker 2: This one had extravagant spikes shooting up off of its shoulders.

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Speaker 2: It's very like Tina Turner, Grace Jones Thunderdome Yes, as

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Speaker 2: well as filaments kind of like mammalian fur with the

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Speaker 2: mane of like whiskery fur running down its back. That's

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Speaker 2: where it gets that name. So it's a really groundbreaking

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Speaker 2: discovery to have this kind of fur still preserved. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So ubera Jara was removed from the r Repay Basin

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Speaker 2: in Brazil under unclear circumstances.

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Speaker 3: I love those.

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Speaker 2: There wasn't a lot of paperwork involved, which is rare.

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Speaker 2: I also love that because Great Holy Moses, the archaeologists

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Speaker 2: and the paleontologists, they love their documentation.

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Speaker 3: Oh they do. It's such a problem for me with them.

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Speaker 3: I'm like the wear, I don't have the paper paperwork.

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Speaker 2: There you go. So uberi Jara went from Brazil to

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Speaker 2: Germany and size one does, yeah, sort of the reverse migrations.

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Speaker 2: Specifically the State Museum of Natural History Carl schru SMNK.

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Speaker 2: There were no legitimate export permits or documentation as to

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Speaker 2: how it was obtained in the first place. As I

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Speaker 2: stated SMNK, the museum unbothered. They unveiled Uberi Jara in

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Speaker 2: the publication Cretaceous Research on December thirteenth, twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: I just got my last issue, right, that was just

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Speaker 3: it just expired.

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Speaker 2: No Brazilian authors, hanky. So the publication presented the specimen

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Speaker 2: as a newly discovered species that German paleontologists named. The

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Speaker 2: publication of the paper set off legal, ethical, all these problems,

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Speaker 2: all this controversy between German paleontologist and the entire Brazilian

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Speaker 2: scientific community. So Brazil declared that the specimen had been

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Speaker 2: illegally exported. Cretaceous Research permanently withdrew the Ubera Jara article

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Speaker 2: in September of twenty twenty one. They're like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: that's enough. This of course, this puts the specimen in limbo.

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Speaker 2: No one could do.

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Speaker 3: Any research on it, either fish nor foul.

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Speaker 2: No so per paleontologist Tastes of Rodriguez from Brazil's Federal

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Speaker 2: University of Espiritu Santu. When an important fossil is found

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Speaker 2: and sold, our scientists stop studying them. We are no

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Speaker 2: longer discovering our own history. The lead author of the

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Speaker 2: now withdrawn critasous research piece, Robert Smythe. He conducted his

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Speaker 2: research as a master's student at the University of Portsmouth, England.

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Speaker 2: He said, quote, up until now, we've been missing half

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Speaker 2: of the world in terms of the evolution of feathers.

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Speaker 2: It's just a bit a blank space.

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Speaker 3: Really, yeah, fill that blank space in yeah.

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Speaker 2: Blank space, Like the paperwork on that export of old

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Speaker 2: uber Jar should be right.

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Speaker 3: Peal, So do a lot of work in a blank space,

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Speaker 3: Elizabeth exactly. So.

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Speaker 2: That same month, the magazine Science published an article highlighting

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Speaker 2: the different accounts talking about how the specimen was exported.

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Speaker 2: So as a result of that reporting, the Baden Wurtemberg

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Speaker 2: Science Ministry launched an investigation dun dund Investigative journalism for

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Speaker 2: the win so per the withdrawn Cretaceous research article. Uberi

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Speaker 2: Jara Jubatis was quote brought to Germany along with scientific

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Speaker 2: samples in nineteen ninety five, and this was done by

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Speaker 2: SMK paleontologist eb Hard Frey, and that the authorized exporting

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Speaker 2: of the specimen was granted in February of nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: five by the National Department of Mineral Production, and this

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Speaker 2: gave Frey the go ahead to ship quote two boxes

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Speaker 2: containing calcerous samples with fossils without any commercial value, with

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Speaker 2: the main objective to proceed with paleontological studies to the

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Speaker 2: SMK music.

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Speaker 3: Sure, so it sounds like they threw a lot of

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Speaker 3: syllables out some paperwork to make it sound.

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Speaker 2: Official exactly, And they said, but they said, we have paperwork.

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Speaker 2: The museum later admitted to the Ministry that it had

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Speaker 2: made erroneous statements in these in these in these paperwork hoops.

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Speaker 2: So according to the ministry's probe, the museum wasn't able

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Speaker 2: to give any record of having obtained proper documentation of

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Speaker 2: the fossils acquisition and was unable to prove the specimen

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Speaker 2: was imported before a two thousand and seven German cultural

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Speaker 2: protection law was put into place. They got nothing. However,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, the German Ministry told Science the magazine

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Speaker 2: not just Science written large, just the book SMNK like

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Speaker 2: hello Science, like just yelling outside.

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Speaker 3: By the way, tell Math this too.

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Speaker 2: So the German Ministry tells Science that the museum acquired

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Speaker 2: the specimen in two thousand and nine after it was

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Speaker 2: imported by a private company in two thousand and six. Also,

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Speaker 2: Jose Betemar Melo figuroa then now retired official who signed

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Speaker 2: phrase permit, told Brazilian news portal g One that the

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Speaker 2: researchers quote also needed authorization from the Ministry of Science

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Speaker 2: and Technology. So this Brazilian guy signs on it thinking

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Speaker 2: that this is going to help him get signed off

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Speaker 2: from a larger Brazilian organization, not that this is going

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Speaker 2: to help the same in all the country.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So Frey, in an email to a national geographic said quote,

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Speaker 2: I am sure we will find a solution, you know sure,

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Speaker 2: And then he goes on, he goes to tell Science,

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Speaker 2: we're trying to find a way to solve this in

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Speaker 2: a fair way, in a way that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: I don't ever believe someone who's saying that to a journalist.

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Speaker 3: If you're having to say that to a journalist, at

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Speaker 3: that point, I'm like.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe that, and so fair for him. He's

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Speaker 2: trying to negotiate temporary lease of Uberi Jara to keep

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Speaker 2: him on display in Germany before returning it to Brazil.

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Speaker 3: We want to keep our feathered friend.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fair for me.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 2: So Alexander Kellner, who is the director of the National

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Speaker 2: Museum of Brazil, said, quote, everyone is welcome to study them,

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Speaker 2: to publish on them, and then give them back, like

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Speaker 2: they just want Tom back. So Frey feels that even

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Speaker 2: though he obtained the required documents for the exportation of

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Speaker 2: these fossils, that the documents only referred to samples that

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Speaker 2: were unspecified, and so he says they arrived legally, but

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Speaker 2: we just can't prove it properly.

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Speaker 3: You see, there's some ambiguities, but I did not create them.

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Speaker 3: I'm just living underneath that.

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Speaker 2: He's like to sum up, totally legal, totally cool, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So Kellner, though, the director of the Brazilian Museum, he

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Speaker 2: says there's no legal exportation of fossils period. He just

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Speaker 2: doesn't chance right, just start it that way. So then

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Speaker 2: he says that the only circumstance in which a fossil

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Speaker 2: could legally leave the country for another to study, would

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Speaker 2: be as a temporary loan. And so Kellner asks, like,

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Speaker 2: why is such an incredible fossil but given to Germany

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Speaker 2: so long ago and we're only now seeing the publication.

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Speaker 2: So is that because they knew that they got it

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Speaker 2: under dubious circumstances? He said, quote, it's hard to believe

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Speaker 2: that any paleontologist would not have recognized the importance of

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Speaker 2: this specimen and not published it earlier.

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Speaker 3: Okay, because it is pretty groundbreaking, I.

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Speaker 2: Remember hugely so. David Martil Martil of University of Portsmouth

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Speaker 2: in England, said in an email to National Geographic that

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Speaker 2: he quote would be happy if all the Brazilian fossils

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Speaker 2: in all of the museums around the world went back

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Speaker 2: to Brazil.

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Speaker 3: But and that but's done a lot of work.

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Speaker 2: He thinks that the laws that Brazil has regarding fossil

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Speaker 2: ownership are a little too strict counterproductive.

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Speaker 3: I would love to be able to do that, but

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Speaker 3: I don't trust Brazil.

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Speaker 2: I wish I could imagine it's Brazil, why won't you

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Speaker 2: give them from them?

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Speaker 3: But they don't vow you with the way I think

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Speaker 3: they should.

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Speaker 2: So here's what he says. Because the trade and fossils

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Speaker 2: was illegal, and because there was potentially big money to

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Speaker 2: be made from trading them, it became utterly corrupt. That's why, right,

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Speaker 2: So what are these overly strict and counterproductive laws?

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Speaker 3: Are these overly counterproductive laws? Elizabeth well?

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Speaker 2: A nineteen forty two Brazilian law says that fossil collecting

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Speaker 2: within the country requires National Mining Agency permits. It also

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Speaker 2: says that all fossils that are found belong to the country.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, standard, No, this is totally standard. A

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Speaker 2: decree made in nineteen ninety added that the exporting of

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Speaker 2: fossils must first be approved by Brazil's Ministry of Science,

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Speaker 2: Technology and Innovation, and then foreign researchers have to collaborate

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Speaker 2: with a Brazilian institution in any studies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we want our names with the papers too, rite.

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Speaker 2: I don't see how that's overreaching. And then they all

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Speaker 2: so this is proof that SMNK should have had in hand,

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Speaker 2: but they couldn't provide. They done broke the law.

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Speaker 3: Oh, definitely broke the law, and then also did it

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Speaker 3: in that whole like it's only on paperwork.

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Speaker 2: Right, fry Frey, He told German newspaper BNN that he

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Speaker 2: was the only one really involved in this, and then

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Speaker 2: SMNK scientific director Norbert Lens didn't have anything to do

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Speaker 2: with it.

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Speaker 3: I'm telling you, my boss was totally unaware of what

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Speaker 3: I was doing in the jungle.

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Speaker 2: It was Norbert Lens. He is author of the paper

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Speaker 2: in Cretaceous research.

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Speaker 3: He was totally unaware of everything except for the fact

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Speaker 3: his name was on the paper.

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Speaker 2: Totally innocent. But yet he left the museum on his

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Speaker 2: own volition September thirty twenty two. He's like, look, I'm

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Speaker 2: out of here.

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Speaker 3: I gotta go spend time with somebody else's family.

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Speaker 2: But he told BNN that he left and they had

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with Uberijara. And then Science magazine was like, hey, hey,

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Speaker 2: can you get a comment? Hey? He was like, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, he's not here a click. He wouldn't give

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Speaker 2: a comment.

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Speaker 3: Oh really, so Frey, I would say it was about parking,

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Speaker 3: like they wouldn't give me my parking space, ridiculous, Like.

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Speaker 2: It was horrible. Put that in print Martel and Frey.

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Speaker 2: They started criticizing the way that Brazil cares for their fossils.

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Speaker 3: I knew it.

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Speaker 2: They see it the same thing always. So they pointed

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Speaker 2: out that there was a fire in twenty eighteen at

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Speaker 2: Rio de Janio's Museum Nationale, saying that the fire occurred

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Speaker 2: because of negligence and ninety two and a half percent

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Speaker 2: of the archived items in the museum were destroyed in

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Speaker 2: the fire, out of twenty million items.

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Speaker 3: I was Brazil, I'd be like, well, a couple decades ago,

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Speaker 3: you guys kind of bombed a lot of museums, So

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Speaker 3: where are we at.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one point five million items were stored in a

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Speaker 2: separate facility and they were spared from the fire. The

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Speaker 2: museums on a hilltop and the fire hydrants didn't have

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Speaker 2: enough pressure to get up up the hill the water.

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Speaker 2: The museum's deputy director, he said the fire was a

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Speaker 2: result of neglect from successive governments. So he said curators

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Speaker 2: quote fought with different governments to get adequate resources to

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Speaker 2: preserve what is now completely destroyed, and that he felt

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Speaker 2: total dismay and immense anger. So the museum only had

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00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,919
Speaker 2: a few fire extinguishers, a smoke detector, no sprinkler system,

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00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 2: and there were a lot of repairs needed at the museum.

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Speaker 2: Even before the fire.

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Speaker 3: We constantly run into this. Museums they always have bad security.

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Speaker 3: They need updates.

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Speaker 2: On this one, peeling paint exposed wiring, and the museum

368
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,200
Speaker 2: had tried to address this through crowdfunding, so funds needed

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00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 2: for the museum maintenance hadn't been provided since twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 2: Indigenous people were livid that the museum wasn't getting funding.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, quote, the city had recently

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Speaker 2: managed to fund a huge budget to build a brand

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Speaker 2: new Museum of Tomorrow. So the museum celebrated its.

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Speaker 3: Two hundred Tomorrow's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Yes it does. They did it's two hundredth anniversary just

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Speaker 2: three months before the fire, and at that point it

377
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,480
Speaker 2: was partially abandoned and no state officials came to the ceremony,

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Speaker 2: so it was supposed to be an electrical fire. So

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Speaker 2: Martil he doubles down and he was like, you know what,

380
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Speaker 2: it's a good thing the fossils weren't returned to Brazil

381
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 2: before quote, because now they would all be reduced to

382
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Speaker 2: ashes after that magic fire. Elaine Gaillardi, a paleontologist at

383
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,399
Speaker 2: the Federal University of Rio Grande Norte, had this to

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00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 2: say in response, quote, Brazil does not take care of

385
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Speaker 2: its fossils because the Museum Nationale burned. Okay, what about

386
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,120
Speaker 2: Notre Dame. She says, they are trying to neutralize, normalize

387
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,400
Speaker 2: a very sick behavior. So Martel then is like, okay,

388
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 2: you know that was a bit and sensitive. He claimed

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Speaker 2: that he felt it was good to return fossils of

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00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 2: Brazilian origin back to their home and to help rebuild

391
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Speaker 2: the museum and its collections.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe dropped all so good.

393
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Speaker 2: Well, I realized that the following might seem inflammatory, but

394
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Speaker 2: the inescapable fact is that so many fossils were removed

395
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Speaker 2: from Brazil in the nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties, and first

396
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 2: half of the nineteen nineties. So he's like, okay, it

397
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 2: happened before.

398
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 3: Kenny's say upsetting instead of inflammatory. I mean, this guy's

399
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 3: just he's just not it.

400
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 2: Let's take a dino break. When we come back, I'll

401
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,120
Speaker 2: tell you about an investigation with a super sick radical name.

402
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:00,080
Speaker 3: Yeah Brah.

403
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, Hello, welcome, Hey Uberi Jara. You know that

404
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 2: uber Jar isn't the only fossil to be smuggled out

405
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,239
Speaker 2: of Brazil. No, No, In fact, dino bone smuggling has

406
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 2: been a big operation there for some time.

407
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 3: Yes, from what I understand from the news, Yes, so

408
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:39,159
Speaker 3: much so.

409
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 2: That the government had a whole investigation surrounding the illicit

410
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 2: bone trade. Really yeah, Operation Santana Raptor.

411
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 3: I like this.

412
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's named for the Santana raptor. All one word,

413
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 2: the Santana raptor, which was discovered by our old pal

414
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 2: Alexander Kellner of the director of the museum.

415
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 3: Were not the musician Santana, No, how much more fun

416
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 3: would be.

417
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 2: He discovered its Santana found dinosaur bones, just named it.

418
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:13,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's like, this is the Santana Raptor. Well,

419
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 3: this Rob Thomas and I discovered this on old walk.

420
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 2: Go on. This Santana raptor is a small Tyranna sarah

421
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:28,239
Speaker 2: royd Tyranna tyranna what enough Tyranna sauroid tyrannaceroid. I'm sounded out.

422
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 2: This is why I'm t rex is cool, theropod dinosaur

423
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 2: And if that means anything to you, congratulations. But it

424
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: kind of looks like a cute little t rex hands.

425
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

426
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 2: So the investigation on Operation Santana Raptor is something different.

427
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 2: This all came about after a tip to local authorities

428
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen about the illegal exporting, uh and trading

429
00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 2: of fossils from the area of Nova Olinda and Santana

430
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 2: do Karili. You know those places.

431
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 3: Of course.

432
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 2: A fossil trafficking network was then discovered in Siattra, northeastern

433
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 2: state of Brazil. If you say so, totally Brazilians. Don't

434
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 2: even try coming at me. I know I'm messing everything up.

435
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 2: So this has been going on under the radar for decades.

436
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,199
Speaker 2: Portuguese to leave me alone. I know I'm a mess up.

437
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 2: Operations Santana Raptor launched in late October of twenty twenty

438
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 2: in a northern region of Brazil, which one Chapata Dori

439
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 2: let it roll, I got it wrong, REPIRIPI left a

440
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 2: syllable out.

441
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 3: Okay, right, I think that the locals will be impressed

442
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 3: so hard good.

443
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 2: I'm just not good in it.

444
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 3: Tongue doesn't make these sounds.

445
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,959
Speaker 2: No, and I'm just not good enough for like Brazil

446
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 2: level operations. The area super rich with fossils, just bustling

447
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: with fossils, just foss Of the fifty species of pterosaurs

448
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 2: described in the world, twenty three were identified in the

449
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: AAR Ripi Plateau. Damn. Yeah, twenty three fifty put some

450
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: respect on a Brazilian federal police. They got nineteen search

451
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 2: warrants after the like on this sting for traffickers. That

452
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 2: was really nothing, though, because the area is so huge,

453
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 2: It's six times larger than South palo and they just

454
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 2: couldn't get a handle on the magnitude of the operation.

455
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 2: So fossil trafficking doesn't get a whole lot of attention,

456
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 2: Nicholas Cage. The drug trade is more immediate and sexyh

457
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 2: of course, you know. It does, however, have super high

458
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 2: profits for the smugglers, so despite the laws and the

459
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 2: special operations, the risk totally worth it.

460
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 3: Also way fewer guns.

461
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we would hope you're less.

462
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 3: Likely to be killed by a dinosaur hunter.

463
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 2: Clunked over the headna you never hear about like dino

464
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: bone cartels.

465
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 3: There's a lot of reasons to listen am I wrong.

466
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 2: Operations Santana Raptor focused on businessmen, civil servants and middlemen

467
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 2: involved in the illegal trading of rare fossils. And you

468
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 2: didn't have to be a palaeontologist to discover fossils in

469
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: this area. Pieces of archaeological value, which is super easy

470
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 2: to find, you like, trip over it, like.

471
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 3: Rock climbers are finding them, and it's jungle guides well.

472
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: And it's especially true in limestone extraction.

473
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 3: Oh yes, definitely the watch so yeah.

474
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: The rare fossils end up in the hands of the

475
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 2: workers as they're you know, cutting out the limestone, and

476
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: those workers learned to identify, you know, when they found

477
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 2: a really good one. So quote many years ago, there

478
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 2: were always people who sold it, but not now. Everything

479
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 2: has changed. No one sells it anymore. Now. We always

480
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: find it and donate it to the company's warehouse, where

481
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: university students come and the boss delivers it for their studies.

482
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 2: Says jose gomas La Casta, a stonecutter.

483
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 3: I believe them.

484
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,959
Speaker 2: I believe him, although I don't believe a warehouse. Hey,

485
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: I just put him in the company warehouse.

486
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 3: I believe that what he wants to be. To belief.

487
00:25:58,840 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 3: Why not.

488
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: It's more fun these limestone quarries, right, they're kicking out

489
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: all these dino bones. There are almost a hundred of

490
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 2: them in this region.

491
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 3: Quarries.

492
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so, one researcher said, quote as a rule,

493
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: laminated limestone workers do not earn well, so anything that

494
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: appears that can supplement their income is a reason for

495
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 2: joy for them. However, it's a loss to Brazilian heritage.

496
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 3: I hope that the company would at least credit them

497
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 3: with some kind of bonus. The dinosaur bone they put

498
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 3: their name on it, like, oh, this is the hose.

499
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: They're not going to do that unless the company's making line.

500
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 3: Sure, I know, but the company whatever.

501
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. Remember, where there are people, there is crime,

502
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 2: and so fossils are not always delivered to the right people.

503
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 2: Even a professor at the Federal University of Rio de

504
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 2: jan Nio was under investigations. He allegedly paid bribes on

505
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 2: a monthly basis to local quarry workers who were digging

506
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: this stuff up illegally.

507
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 3: He was paying monthly bribes. He's chiefs, brave diggers, like

508
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 3: give me the goodbyes.

509
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 2: You get them on retainer.

510
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got like six guys, seven guys over there.

511
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 2: Local police chief Alan Robson. Alexandrino Ramos said, quote, the

512
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 2: quarry workers and the middlemen were in close contact with

513
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 2: the professor, who funded regular expeditions. When you find a fossil,

514
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 2: the correct procedure is to contact the National Mining Agency

515
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 2: and let them know. Yeah, but these guys come on

516
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: and there are they going to pay you?

517
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 3: No, we're also not supposed to speed when we drive exactly.

518
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: So, crime syndicates have been illegally smuggling fossils from Siattra,

519
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 2: where Chapada du Aripe is located.

520
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 3: So actually the syndicates get involved, it's not just random

521
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 3: professors going off to the only Hinti person they know.

522
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 2: Then we're into the cartel at all. There we go

523
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 2: and buyers are found throughout the US, Europe, Japan. Between

524
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight and two thousand and eight, over thirty

525
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: two thousand fossils have been seized by officials in Seattle.

526
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 3: Did you say thirty two thousand, thirty.

527
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: Two thousand fossils in ten years?

528
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 3: Full fossil, not just bones. Lie.

529
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 2: The government was working to stop the fossils from leaving Brazil.

530
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 2: But what about the ones that are already out there?

531
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 3: What about them, Elizabeth?

532
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 2: I'll tell you something. Palaeontologists love to dig, and they

533
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 2: love to us seek out the truth that's hiding in

534
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: places often overlooked. If you have a mystery, I feel

535
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 2: like a paleontologist is a good resource to have, do

536
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 2: you think so. Yeah, And since the illegal fossil trade

537
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 2: isn't as flashy and attention grabbing as other illicit trades,

538
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: the paleontologists they often have to track this stuff down themselves.

539
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they're like beneath the like wild animal smugglers.

540
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 3: They're like, can we get some atten? Ours are dead,

541
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 3: but can we get some attention?

542
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: Listen? Zaren, Yeah, close your eyes. Oh yes, I want

543
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 2: you to picture it. It's twenty nineteen. You are previously

544
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: mentioned badass paleontologist Tesa Rodriguez of Brazil's Federal University of

545
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 2: Espiritu Santo.

546
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 3: Look at me.

547
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 2: There it is there. You are typing away at your

548
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,719
Speaker 2: computer doing one of your special investigations. You finish off

549
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: your latte, sucking in the last of the coffee at

550
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,479
Speaker 2: the bottom of the cup through a straw. It's been

551
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 2: a long day. You have other stuff to do, but

552
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: this is more important. You're on the hunt. There's a

553
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: knock at your office door. Come back later, you call.

554
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: You take a deep breath and you click through some

555
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: web pages. Then you spot it. You're on eBay. You

556
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: are looking for fossils, fossils that should be in Brazil

557
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: and not up for auction by some clown. And you

558
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: see one, an incredible one. It's almost an entire skeleton

559
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 2: of a pterosaur, a wingspan of about thirteen feet. You

560
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 2: know this piece. It's from the Araripe plateau, and you

561
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: know that it was smuggled out of Brazil between nineteen

562
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 2: eighty and nineteen ninety, which predates Operation Santana raptor where

563
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: is it now? France? And they are asking two hundred

564
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 2: and fifty thousand dollars for it?

565
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: Have they lost their ever love it?

566
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: You know, it's worth at least twice that you ring

567
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: up your contact at the Federal Public Ministry of Brazil.

568
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: While the phone rings, you print up the listing for

569
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: the fossil in case they delete the sale got them.

570
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: When you tell your contact, you email her the link

571
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: to the listing and you wait time to bring this

572
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 2: baby home. I think it's amazing that while the paleontologists

573
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: are underfunded and underrecognized in Brazil, they are undeterred badasses.

574
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: You're a badass erin so the company that owned the

575
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 2: terosaur initially presented a document to the French court that

576
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,479
Speaker 2: supposedly proved the legality of their possession of the fossil,

577
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 2: but evidence that was gathered by the Federal Public Ministry

578
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: in Brazil showed that that documentation was false forgeries. So

579
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: the French authorities were called in. They went to the

580
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: company and they searched and seized the terosaur quote in

581
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: a container that was transporting courts. They found hundreds of

582
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 2: fossils from all over the world, said Raphael Rayol, the

583
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: prosecutor responsible for the investigation. They discovered the existence of

584
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 2: another forty five fossils, which included sea turtles, arachnids, fish, reptiles, insects, plants,

585
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: all of them millions of years old in this supposed

586
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: container of quartz quote. There are many stores that sell

587
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 2: fossils in the USA and Europe. It's a reasonably common sale,

588
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 2: said Taysa you Saren. She also said that the repatriation

589
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: of fossils is usually hard and that the case in

590
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: question is exceptional. Good job, taysen Z. So when they

591
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: got back to Brazil, the recovered pieces became part of

592
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 2: the collection of the Museum of Paleontology at the Regional

593
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: University of Kaririri, and that houses about eleven thousand fossils there.

594
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 2: Operation Santana Raptor, though, wasn't the only investigation into these crimes.

595
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: There was Operation Cardoom in April of twenty thirteen, and

596
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 2: in that case, the government was seeking to retrieve known

597
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 2: fossils and found them at a guy's house and he

598
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: was selling them to craft stores.

599
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 3: Oh like a Michael's.

600
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 2: Maybe Michael's hobby lobby. No hate mail hob no hobby lobby.

601
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 2: There was Operation.

602
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 3: Munich later that year that articaprio totally.

603
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 2: It was directed by Steven Steele, so that one recovered

604
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 2: semi precious stones and fossils, and the government had seven

605
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 2: arrest warrants, nine search warrants all across Brazil, somewhere in stores,

606
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: somewhere in warehouses, and more than two thousand fossils and artifacts.

607
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 2: We received a lot.

608
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 3: I've got to believe one of these investigations is going

609
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 3: to lead to Nicholas Cage's house.

610
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, well, how about Operation Flintstones.

611
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: Are you kidding?

612
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 2: No, I'm not kidding. It's an amazing name. That's top

613
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: shelf right there.

614
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, top shelf cuties.

615
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. August twenty fifteen, this operation went full flintstones and

616
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: recovered stolen fossils and artifacts from caves across Brazil. Yes, yes,

617
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: so there were some frequent flyers in this group of

618
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: captured crooks. One of them was a German geologist named

619
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: Michael Lothar Schwickert. He was busted twice by the federal police.

620
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 2: He answered two police inquiries, but then he was released

621
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: and just dipped out of Brazil, just left the country.

622
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 3: His middle name of Lothar, that's one of those names

623
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 3: that sticks with me because of the old snl skit

624
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 3: of a loath Ar, of the who people see. This

625
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 3: is what happened to one line.

626
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: According to a researcher at the Paleontology Laboratory at the

627
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: University of Kariri, Lothar is quote a customary seller of

628
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: fossils from Chippata du al a ripe to collectors, researchers,

629
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: universities and museums around the world.

630
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 3: So he just breezes and buys up some stolen dinosaur bones,

631
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: goes to Hong Kong, sells them for top.

632
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 2: Dollars exactly, and Lothar very familiar with the fossil basin,

633
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 2: the Alaripe fossil base, more than most this researcher Alamo

634
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: Saraiva called him quote a great fossil prepare the best

635
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: I've ever seen. He's a specialist in quote cutting cut

636
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 2: edystone taken from the laminated limestone.

637
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 3: She was really good at cutting limestone.

638
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: He's a great limestone top shelf. Twenty seventeen, three tourists

639
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: were arrested in the Act. They were carrying a fossil

640
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 2: each in their hand luggage and the airport X ray

641
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 2: caught their loop. They're like, why do you have a

642
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: big lady, lady? They said they didn't know that smuggling

643
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: fossils was a crime.

644
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 3: Is not legal.

645
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 2: I thought this was fine.

646
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 3: I thought it's like, if you can lift it, you

647
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 3: can take it exactly.

648
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: Let's take a break and when we come back, we'll

649
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 2: talk about how we got here in the first place.

650
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 3: So Zarin, Yes, I was just trying to measure these

651
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 3: dinosaur bones to see if they'd fit in my overhead bag.

652
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 3: So I think they will.

653
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 2: I'm in luck, perfect perfect. Just make sure you wrap

654
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: them in enough stuff so they don't get.

655
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 3: I should probably not have these be checked, otherwise they're

656
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 3: gonna go through X ray. Darn perfect.

657
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: So we got us some smugglers looting Brazilian land.

658
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 3: For fossils, dinosaurs, smuggler blues, and.

659
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: They're almost always smuggled out, generally to Europe. The US

660
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: scientists tend to stick to the stuff unearthed on homes.

661
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 2: We got plenty, and the Japanese are sticklers for proper paperwork.

662
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 3: And provenas oh I could see that.

663
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 2: So what gives right? Colonization It all started there, not

664
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 2: that old bugaboo. So back in the day, imperial powers

665
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 2: took fossils from their colonies to their homes for study

666
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 2: and to place on exhibits.

667
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 3: And not just fossils Elizabeth, Well, that's a whole other

668
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 3: It was kind of a colonial mindset we take and

669
00:35:59,440 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 3: we take home.

670
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the practice indoors. There's a researcher, doctor Raja Shub,

671
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: a paleontologist from the Erlingen Nuremberg University in Germany. Quote. Now,

672
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 2: what is happening is parachute science, where scientists from the

673
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 2: richer countries go to poorer countries, collect fossils and information

674
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 2: and then take them to their institutions where they study them.

675
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 2: There isn't an exchange of knowledge with local researchers similar

676
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 2: to what happened during the colonial era.

677
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of like you know when they offer people,

678
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 3: we're not going to pay you, We're going to give

679
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 3: you free exposure. Oh my god, they're giving the country

680
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 3: free exposure, like we're going to let everyone know we

681
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,439
Speaker 3: got the bones here. It's cool, it's cool.

682
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: Well, many paleontologists they take these natural resources, they don't

683
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 2: leave anything behind, and that takes away from local knowledge

684
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: and educational training.

685
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 3: But they oh, we taught them how to dig, and

686
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 3: we taught them the skills, so now they can do

687
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 3: this too.

688
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 2: Raja Shub elaborates quote the fact that paleontologists are not

689
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: trained to think about ethics and laws in general. His

690
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: created a black market for scientists. So this is why

691
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 2: you can't just have STEM. You have to have a

692
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: full liberal arts education, so you take like an ethics slash. Yeah. So,

693
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: Raja Shube is one of seven paleontologists who study parachute science.

694
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 2: According to Science Friday, quote, parachute science is a term

695
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 2: describing how researchers sometimes drop down from an ivory tower

696
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 2: into in the wealthy Western world, into a foreign community

697
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: for field work. They gather their data and then they

698
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: zip off home without engaging with or acknowledging the contributions

699
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 2: of the local researchers in that community. Parachute science totally.

700
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 3: So you say science Friday, Yeah, yeah, so good, Ira,

701
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 3: I love it.

702
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 2: Despite the fact that the richest fossil sites in the

703
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: world are in developing countries, over the last thirty years,

704
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: ninety seven percent of fossil data has been produced by

705
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: scientists in wealthy countries. Raja Shube notes, quote our finding

706
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 2: show that colonial history and economics influence patterns that weber

707
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: in paleontology. To see it so clearly through the data

708
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 2: was the biggest surprise for everyone. So the US is

709
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: the country who studies the most fossils, but like I said,

710
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: the studies show that the US is also the country

711
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 2: who studied fossils that were collected from home.

712
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, we get hih on our own supplies totally.

713
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 2: Germany, the UK and France are next on the list

714
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: of top fossil investigators, but they're also the top countries

715
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: for exploitation of scientific resources in third world countries and

716
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: they ice out the locals too. This is what doctor

717
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: Raja Schub said, quote. I think that researchers from the

718
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 2: whole world, especially the ones from the richest countries, should

719
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: think about the consequences of not being committed to local

720
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 2: communities and to a country's researchers when they're researching abroad.

721
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 2: Juan Carlos is Naros of Brazil's Federal University of Piaui explains, quote,

722
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 2: there is an enormous asymmetry in archaeology. This problem is

723
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 2: discussed in museums too, but in paleontology it's taboo. We

724
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: have to talk about this because it exists, not sweep

725
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 2: it under the rug. And then he explains the importance

726
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: of place. Paleontology is a science that depends a lot

727
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 2: on the context of where everything is found. If you

728
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: find a dinosaur in Brazil, you won't just excavate that dinosaur.

729
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: You will see everything around it, fossils of other species,

730
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 2: where it came from, from what level. When you get

731
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 2: a fossil on the black market, all of that is lost.

732
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 2: Sometimes the fossils have even been adulterated. That information gets

733
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: lost and it can't be recovered. It's bad science.

734
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 3: It's interesting how many times all these stories ultimately come down.

735
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 3: Every simple question is if we can only get the

736
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 3: adults to learn how to share right.

737
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 2: Another mark on the scientific community is blood amber. Oh yeah, yeah,

738
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: So fossils trapped in amber a beautifully preserved see Jurassic Park.

739
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: But like blood diamonds, a lot of that amber is

740
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: gathered and sold to fund violent conflicts in other countries.

741
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 2: The Society for of Vertebrate Paleontology, which is the largest

742
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 2: body of professional paleontologists in the world, they called for

743
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 2: a moratorium in April of twenty twenty on the publication

744
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: of fossils that might have been sold to fuel the

745
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: genocide Myanmar. Oh wow, So the mines where amber fossils

746
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: are found are all controlled by Myanmar military, and it's

747
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: they who've committed acts of genocide against the country's Muslim

748
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 2: Rohinga people.

749
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 3: Oh, it's like a wildlife smuggling or narco trafficking. You're

750
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 3: going to find disproportionately crime in.

751
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 2: Those businesses, exactly. And so by selling the amber for

752
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: a high price, the researchers are essentially funding genocide. So

753
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 2: while so much can be learned about us today and

754
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 2: our future on the planet by studying dinosaurs and other fossils,

755
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 2: it's not the stuffy, pure pursuit. It may seem you know,

756
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: not at all, and there are, like anything we do, consequences.

757
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 2: But zaren, Yes, Elizabeth Zaren, what of Uberijara? Ah?

758
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 3: How many times do I say that to myself every.

759
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: Morning when you wake up. July nineteenth, twenty twenty two,

760
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 2: Germany announced that the specimen would be returned to Brazil.

761
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, raise up.

762
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: Teresia Bauer, who leads the Ministry of Science, Research and

763
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: Arts for the German state of Baden Wurtenberg, told Science

764
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 2: magazine not just science in general. Quote, we have a

765
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 2: clear stance. If there are objects in the collections of

766
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 2: our museums that were acquired under legally or ethically unacceptable conditions,

767
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: we will return them. It is important that with the

768
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: return we send a clear signal about the correct handling

769
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 2: of collection items they're provenas and scientific honesty. Yes, and

770
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 2: also it stands to.

771
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 3: Take if you think, and you're in the business of paleontology,

772
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 3: and you think there's these other paleontologists across the pond

773
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 3: who aren't as good or don't have as the standards

774
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 3: you have, maybe help them with the standards as opposed

775
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 3: to going we've taken all their stuff.

776
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, just to hear what you're.

777
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 3: Doing, Like try to once again, you'll hear me say

778
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 3: this often share knowledge or information, share what you know,

779
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 3: and then go hey, let's all share these bones that

780
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 3: we all are standing on top of.

781
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 2: Well, if we really believe that it's to advance humanity.

782
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, there was no Brazil for dinosaurs, and

783
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 3: there was no Germany, so they would be like, I

784
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 3: don't know what y'all talking about, right, Well.

785
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: It's all just one thing, doctor Frey. He retired in

786
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 2: early twenty twenty two and told Science he wasn't allowed.

787
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 3: To comment on the story, just the whole field.

788
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was like, hello, Science, But Bauer told German

789
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: newspaper BNN that the whole thing was scientific misconduct. At

790
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,439
Speaker 2: the same time, neither the German Ministry nor SMNK took

791
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: disciplinary action against any of the researchers involved.

792
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 3: Seems to be very common in these stories when there's

793
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 3: not enough like blood or money, it's like and nothing

794
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 3: was done.

795
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: Nothing was done. So remember Allen Gilardi, the paleontologist at

796
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 2: the Federal University of Rio Grande. Did d nortek about it?

797
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 2: Forget her, No tre Dame Todm. She was the girl

798
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 2: She said of the return, quote, I am happy with

799
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: the outcome. We have taken another step towards the real

800
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 2: twenty first century science, which is getting rid and slowly

801
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 2: of colonialist ties and biases.

802
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 3: Amen. Amen, I'll be over here dropping mics at this

803
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 3: mic club.

804
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 2: So Germany's decision to return uberi Jara is seen as

805
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 2: a sort of victory against colonialism in the scientific community.

806
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 3: Good Germany.

807
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: Gilardi also said, quote European museums will not and should

808
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: not be emptied. Fair exchanges and collaborations can be made

809
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 2: so that everyone can share in the benefits that fossils

810
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 2: can offer.

811
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 3: There's that word, bring it on share not just a

812
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 3: pop star.

813
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 2: Smn CA says they're going to examine how it acquired

814
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 2: other fossils in the collection. Palaeontologist Felipe Pinero fought hard

815
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 2: for the return of the uberi Jara to Brazil. He

816
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:50,320
Speaker 2: had a hashtag xeren serious, hashtagbri Jara belongs to br

817
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 2: and look what he did hashtag in a dreams to

818
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 2: his credit. So as to the Germans hanging on to

819
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:01,240
Speaker 2: some forty other Brazil based fossils, Pinner had this to say, quote,

820
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 2: we got new hashtags coming because a Brazilian researcher. I

821
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 2: am immensely happy that the specimen is going home. I

822
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 2: am glad this means that a few dozen other invaluable

823
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,439
Speaker 2: specimens are likely to make company to Ubijara and return home.

824
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 3: It's kind of weird how they have to be graceful

825
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 3: about gang. Can we have our stuff back?

826
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 2: Right?

827
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 3: Because if they're not graceful, they won't get it back. Well,

828
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 3: look at them, they're being jerks to us. You just

829
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 3: took their stuff. Like imagine if I wented someone's, you know,

830
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 3: some really rich home and I took like, I don't

831
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 3: know all their like they're heirloom silver, right, their silver

832
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 3: set from great great Greek grandma. And I'm like, yeah,

833
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 3: but I thought you guys weren't using it and you

834
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 3: weren't taking care of it. So I took it. And

835
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 3: I'm showing that all my people and how nice silverware

836
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 3: used to be. We all love. It's important to us.

837
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 3: They're like, could we have it back? I'm like, you

838
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 3: seem to be mad. Don't yell at me. If you

839
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 3: keep coming at me like that, you're never seeing this again.

840
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 3: You guys will know not to appreciate your silverware.

841
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: That's what they're saying, that's totally Is that your ridiculous

842
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: take away? It could be it is it is, that's beautiful.

843
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 3: What's your ridiculous take away? Lizabeth? I did that, just.

844
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 2: Smoothed, easy boom, easy breezy.

845
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 3: And that's some time. Go on, what's yours?

846
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 2: I think you know? Akin to that? I feel like

847
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 2: it's maddening that, you know, this control that gets exerted

848
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: over these things, and this notion of knowing what's best

849
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 2: for others. Yes, and well you can't take care of

850
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 2: your stuff managers with fire, Yeah, come on, and you know,

851
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 2: if you're all in this together, And like you were saying,

852
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: the dinosaurs didn't know one country from the other because

853
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 2: they weren't, wouldn't you scientists as scientists reach out and

854
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: like how can I help you? Rather than turning your

855
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 2: nose up at it? But you know, again, it's this

856
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: colonial mindset.

857
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 3: And also I mean it's and I joked earlier about

858
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 3: like can't we get the adults to learn how to share?

859
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 3: But it is like very much not just a children's thing.

860
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 3: Is that it says whole like mine, but I want

861
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 3: it If I can't have it, I'm taking the ball home.

862
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 3: It's all the stuff you see children do, we see

863
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 3: adults do. They just do it on paperwork and with

864
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 3: press announcements. But it's the same thing.

865
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,439
Speaker 2: Well, it's you know, because of the power that they hold,

866
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 2: they feel they don't have to share, but you demonstrate

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Speaker 2: larger power by sharing, exactly.

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Speaker 3: And it's a greater gift to give yourself.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it though? I know because you know what sharing is. Karen.

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Speaker 2: That's it for today. You can find us online at

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Speaker 2: ridiculous Crime dot com. We're also at Ridiculous Crime on

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00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: both Twitter and Instagram, and you can email ridiculous Crime

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00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: at gmail dot com at your own risk, and you

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00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 2: can leave a talkback on the iHeart app reach out.

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00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 2: And that's it. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton

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00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 2: and Zarren Burnett, produced and edited by David Saurus Kustin.

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00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: Research is by Marissa Velociraptor to the Stars Brown and

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00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:47,439
Speaker 2: Andrea Cutest Little Papasaurus song Sharpened Tear. The theme song

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00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 2: is by reanimated iguana Don Thomas Lee and renowned Brontosaurus

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00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 2: burger chef Travis Dutton. Executive producers are Ben Give Chile,

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00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 2: The Miladawn remains Bowlin and Noel Rich it turns Zambia's

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00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 2: broken hill skull immediately, or I will rain down hell

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00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 2: fire upon you Brown. Ridicous Crime.

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Speaker 3: Say it one more time, Ridiquious Crime.

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts

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Speaker 1: My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.