Speaker 1: Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
Speaker 1: the balance and defend the discourse from these hip hop
Speaker 1: weekly studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I am your host,
Speaker 1: Ramsey's Jock.
Speaker 2: He is Ramsy's job I am q Ward. You are
Speaker 2: hopefully still tuned in or maybe just tuning in to
Speaker 2: another week of Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: Either way, we appreciate you and we have a lot
Speaker 1: in store for you. So we're going to take the
Speaker 1: next part of the show and discuss some systemic issues.
Speaker 1: There is an article that we came across that we
Speaker 1: felt helps paint a picture that we've kind of been
Speaker 1: tinkering on for many years on this show, trying to
Speaker 1: suggest that police officers aren't simply bad apples.
Speaker 3: Indeed there are, but they're part of.
Speaker 1: A system that is corrupt and the story that we
Speaker 1: intend to share this half of the show, we believe
Speaker 1: illustrates that point quite well. But before we get there
Speaker 1: is time to discuss ba BA becoming a better ally.
Speaker 1: BABA and Today's BABA is sponsored by Friends of the Movement.
Speaker 1: You can sign up for the free voter wallet from
Speaker 1: fotmglobal dot com to support black businesses and allied businesses
Speaker 1: as well as make an impact with your spending again
Speaker 1: of Fotmglobal dot Com and I had an interesting conversation
Speaker 1: earlier this week with the mother of Oscar Graham And
Speaker 1: for those that have seen the movie Hoopdale Station starring
Speaker 1: Michael B. Jordan, Reverend Wanda Johnson is the mother of
Speaker 1: the title character in the or the main character in
Speaker 1: that film. But I want you to watch her most
Speaker 1: recent film to documentary and it's on Netflix. The Mother
Speaker 1: of Oscar Grant Reverend Wanda Johnson an award winning Brazilian filmmaker.
Speaker 1: Deborah Suza Silva's new film, Or Our Children is a
Speaker 1: powerful documentary. Two Black women whose young sons were brutalized
Speaker 1: by police build a network of support, healing, and political action.
Speaker 1: Deborah Susa Silva sees this as a call to action.
Speaker 1: She's urging others to refocus their collective attention on police
Speaker 1: brutality by listening to the stories of survivors and readdressing
Speaker 1: the issue's ruth causes. Susa Silva's documentary film For Our
Speaker 1: Children gives audiences an intimate look into the lives of
Speaker 1: those who've experienced police brutality and Metola takes on their families,
Speaker 1: written directed and produced by Silva, For Our Children delves
Speaker 1: into Reverend Johnson's relentless efforts to immortalize her son by
Speaker 1: advocating for the Fruitville bart station where he was killed
Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine, to be renamed in his honor.
Speaker 1: Her story coincides with a harrowing police violence incident involving
Speaker 1: Angela Williams and her then seventeen year old son Ulysses Wilkerson.
Speaker 1: Though he survives the brutal encounter, Ulysses's life becomes ensnared
Speaker 1: in a web of suspicion and reprisal by local law
Speaker 1: enforcement that the family continues to fight today. So again,
Speaker 1: I want you to watch for Our Children on Netflix.
Speaker 3: All right, my.
Speaker 2: Brother, yep. Before we move on, important to put a
Speaker 2: better period on the first segment and finalize it, thought, please,
Speaker 2: The words that I wish I'd used are there are
Speaker 2: victims on both sides of that conflict, and there are
Speaker 2: those that suffer that are not directly involved with said
Speaker 2: conflict and don't support it. And the data shows, not Ramsas' opinion,
Speaker 2: not Quentin's opinion, that one side of that conflict has
Speaker 2: suffered far greater losses than the other, and those losses
Speaker 2: can tinue to what end. There seems to be no solution,
Speaker 2: no answer, no thing that would satisfy the desire for
Speaker 2: loss by one side of that conflict. Yeah, nothing that
Speaker 2: could be said or done that will make them say, Okay,
Speaker 2: this is enough. And that's why you see children, students
Speaker 2: mostly all over the country and all over the world protesting.
Speaker 2: And I'll say, with regards to our former president and
Speaker 2: people that think like him, stop for a second and
Speaker 2: ask yourself why white men are never called traders, are
Speaker 2: never called terrorists, and are now somehow not even referred
Speaker 2: to even when they are Neo Nazis as anti semit
Speaker 2: Why the far right, because a lot of them now
Speaker 2: that are showing up to protest, raising their fist as
Speaker 2: pro Israeli.
Speaker 3: Historically they've been buried.
Speaker 2: Not stand a pollsed to neil nazis interesting question to
Speaker 2: ask yourself. I'm not asking this of Rams as we
Speaker 2: kind of have an idea of why that's so, but
Speaker 2: an interesting place to start a conversation with yourself.
Speaker 3: It's indeed a potent observation. I'm not mad.
Speaker 1: I was going to add something there but I think
Speaker 1: you kind of nailed it. So if you're missing context,
Speaker 1: I employ you to check out our website, civicsipper dot
Speaker 1: com and listen to the first part of the show,
Speaker 1: because you had some stuff to get off his chest
Speaker 1: and we all needed to hear it. All Right, So
Speaker 1: let's talk about what's going on in La County. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to share a bit of a story from
Speaker 1: the Black Information Network. Dozens of probation officers and Los
Speaker 1: Angeles County were put on administrative leave over the last
Speaker 1: five months for several misconduct allegations, including excessive force, sexual abuse,
Speaker 1: and drug possession. The Los Angeles County Probation Department announced
Speaker 1: that sixty six of its officers were put on leave
Speaker 1: since January first. According to a May thirteenth news release,
Speaker 1: probation officers were assigned to the department's adult and juvenile
Speaker 1: operations and will face internal affairs investigations that historically doesn't
Speaker 1: mean much. The police are investigating the police and deciding
Speaker 1: what the police's punishment should be since their police anyway.
Speaker 1: Officials said thirty nine of the officers were cited for
Speaker 1: issues of general misconduct, including suspected use of excessive force,
Speaker 1: no surprise, and child endangerment or abuse, possession of contraman
Speaker 1: and negligent supervision. Eighteen were put on leave for alleged
Speaker 1: sexual misconduct and nine for arrests unrelated to employment. The
Speaker 1: nation's largest probation agency states this is an effort to
Speaker 1: regain public trust and single out employees who are engaged
Speaker 1: in alleged misconduct. I'll say here, it's not nothing. It's
Speaker 1: not what we would ask for, but it's not nothing.
Speaker 1: If you're trying to earn back the public's trust, it's
Speaker 1: not nothing.
Speaker 2: That's not That's not a pat on the back. I
Speaker 2: was going to say, I think similar oversight to patrol
Speaker 2: officers would do a lot, a lot more in the
Speaker 2: way of regaining than just the public trust. But you know,
Speaker 2: it's not nothing, as Ramses was.
Speaker 1: Saying, And again, it's not a pat on the back.
Speaker 1: That's not me excusing it. It's like, Okay, at least
Speaker 1: we got that.
Speaker 3: No, that's not it.
Speaker 1: I just want to acknowledge. My position historically has been
Speaker 1: acknowledging when the opposition takes a step in the in
Speaker 1: the right direction, we we know we have to take
Speaker 1: a couple of steps in their direction. But when they
Speaker 1: do take a step in this direction, it's not nothing
Speaker 1: and it's not regression. So we got a long way
Speaker 1: to go. Never hid from that, but anyway, I'll finish up.
Speaker 3: Quote.
Speaker 1: We are releasing this information in the spirit of greater
Speaker 1: transparency and to address sorry, to assure our stakeholders, especially
Speaker 1: the families of youth and our juvenile facilities, that we
Speaker 1: will not tolerate anything that impedes our mission to provide
Speaker 1: a safe, nurturing and structured environment for those entrusted to
Speaker 1: our care.
Speaker 3: Unquote.
Speaker 1: This is a quote from Probation Chief Guillermo Vierira Rosa,
Speaker 1: and it's important to add this. This release states that
Speaker 1: nearly twenty eight hundred sworn officers work at the department.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if that's the entire police department
Speaker 1: or all of the officers together, or if that's just
Speaker 1: the probation.
Speaker 3: Department.
Speaker 2: I'm guessing Los Angeles has a larger force than twenty
Speaker 2: eight hundred officers, but.
Speaker 3: So you know, neither of us know. But the point is.
Speaker 1: The point is is that what they're trying to do
Speaker 1: is compare the six six officers who've been placed on
Speaker 1: lead to this larger number of officers who work there, right.
Speaker 3: And so let's have this conversation. On the show. We've been.
Speaker 1: Making a case that there are systemic issues, and the
Speaker 1: pushback from those that oppose this view is that, well, no,
Speaker 1: these are individual bad actors, right, Which is funny because
Speaker 1: you know a lot of times those same folks are
Speaker 1: happy to quote statistics about how black people commit x
Speaker 1: amount of crimes and you know, black people this, that,
Speaker 1: and the third, but aren't willing to look at black
Speaker 1: people individually, right, And I say, let's look at everything systemically,
Speaker 1: because I think that individuals behaviors are the result of
Speaker 1: systemic insulation, sometimes systemic restrictions, and you end up having
Speaker 1: these outliers. And when these outliers the numbers tend to grow.
Speaker 1: Then you're dealing with what I would refer to and
Speaker 1: most people refer to as a systemic issue. So it's
Speaker 1: important that if we're going to have one conversation, let's
Speaker 1: both have that one conversation. If it's about individuals, then sure,
Speaker 1: let's have it. If we're going to have a systemic conversation,
Speaker 1: then let's have it across the board. But insofar as
Speaker 1: police are concerned, regardless of there's twenty eight hundred officers
Speaker 1: or twenty eight thousand or twenty eight million. If I
Speaker 1: see sixty six people that are caught up on all
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff, I don't see individual actors. Sixty six
Speaker 1: is a big number, especially when you're talking about people
Speaker 1: who are empowered to shape outcomes for the citizens that
Speaker 1: pay their salary, that they're supposed to protect, so forth
Speaker 1: and so on. Sixty six is a big enough number
Speaker 1: for a city to suggest that there is.
Speaker 3: A degree of insulation.
Speaker 1: One of the things that this number doesn't tell to
Speaker 1: people that might oppose this opinion is it doesn't tell
Speaker 1: how long these sixty six individuals have been able to
Speaker 1: shape outcomes for let's be honest, black and brown people
Speaker 1: and out what the ripple effect of those outcomes has
Speaker 1: been on those black and brown families, those black and
Speaker 1: brown communities, the children, and the reality that they see,
Speaker 1: the traumas and the generational traumas. This number sixty six
Speaker 1: doesn't reflect any of that. I'll take it a step further.
Speaker 1: This number sixty six is the number of people that
Speaker 1: were caught committing crimes that were significant enough to warrant
Speaker 1: disciplinary action. So this in no way should suggest that, Okay,
Speaker 1: only sixty six in a city this size, sixty six
Speaker 1: you're doing Okay, No, this is sixty six who got caught.
Speaker 1: We tell stories all the time of police misconduct, and
Speaker 1: we only tell.
Speaker 3: The stories of the police who were caught.
Speaker 1: But I come from and I know Q will have
Speaker 1: something to add here, But I come from the place
Speaker 1: comp in California.
Speaker 3: We up right now, So shout out to Compton. One time.
Speaker 3: I come from a place where I I saw.
Speaker 1: Just how cool the police were, exactly what police misconduct
Speaker 1: looked like. I rams this jah Rudy King Taylor. The
Speaker 1: second saw with these two eyes, the police rob people
Speaker 1: on the street, beat them up and rob them. Granted
Speaker 1: it was in the eighties when I was a little kid,
Speaker 1: but I saw it happen. I know what a robbery
Speaker 1: looks like, and I know what it looks like when
Speaker 1: you're defenseless to fight back. And this is very much
Speaker 1: shaped my relationship with the police and my view of
Speaker 1: the police. And again, I recognize that there are good
Speaker 1: people on both sides.
Speaker 3: Man, But but.
Speaker 1: If we're talking about a systemic issue, we have to
Speaker 1: discuss the system that creates the degree of insulation that
Speaker 1: allows people to feel like they can do this and
Speaker 1: not live in fear of the consequences of it, because
Speaker 1: I know if I robbed somebody, I would live in
Speaker 1: fear of those consequences. Right if I beat somebody and
Speaker 1: smashed their head into the side of the car door.
Speaker 1: Another thing that I saw with these eyes. For those
Speaker 1: that don't know, I may have shared the story on
Speaker 1: this show before, but I've seen the police pull a
Speaker 1: guy out of his car when I was very little,
Speaker 1: and they set him on the ground on this and
Speaker 1: he is in an intersection in the street now on
Speaker 1: the side. He was in the middle of the street
Speaker 1: where cars would have to go around them. They set
Speaker 1: him on the ground in front of his car and
Speaker 1: they took his head and then they smashed his head.
Speaker 1: And he was sitting on the ground the police were standing.
Speaker 1: They took his head and smashed his head into the
Speaker 1: side of the car door. And it had been at
Speaker 1: the door in I might have been four or five
Speaker 1: years old, and I saw that happen. So again, when
Speaker 1: you think about black people's relationship with the police, why
Speaker 1: black people don't want talk to police, We don't want none.
Speaker 3: To do with the police. The police stay over there,
Speaker 3: will stay over here and just keep it the same.
Speaker 1: Speaking in general terms, it's especially pronounced for black people
Speaker 1: that come from environments like that and Detroit in the
Speaker 1: three one three, So and I know it's a little
Speaker 1: different out there, and feel free to speak on it,
Speaker 1: but I know that there's a lot more in the
Speaker 1: way of black people who fill the ranks and the
Speaker 1: police departments in a place like Detroit, but there are
Speaker 1: still systemic issues.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, the design, purpose, and mission of police departments all
Speaker 2: across the country are the same, so the people that
Speaker 2: wear the uniform have far less impact on how that
Speaker 2: how those duties are carried out than we might imagine.
Speaker 2: And somehow or sometimes rather just because of the nature
Speaker 2: of the job and what's required to do it to
Speaker 2: the pleasure of your authority and those who employ you,
Speaker 2: you could be a decent person doing a very very
Speaker 2: difficult job, having a unfortunately negative impact on the lives
Speaker 2: of people that you would otherwise be empathetic of. That look, think, pray, love,
Speaker 2: and vote the way that you do because it's what
Speaker 2: the job calls for. I start a lot of conversations
Speaker 2: with what may sound like a disclaimer to people reminding
Speaker 2: you as you hear my voice, because the position that
Speaker 2: I take on things might give you the wrong impression.
Speaker 2: I am no one's moral, spiritual, or intellectual.
Speaker 3: Superior intellectual part.
Speaker 2: I know that no and most mostly because we do
Speaker 2: not have to agree on everything right, So the things
Speaker 2: that I hold strong position on, I don't require those
Speaker 2: in my life to share all of them. Some of
Speaker 2: them you need to. Well, we can't rock at all.
Speaker 2: But I say that because I'm also not a judge.
Speaker 2: I'm also not an officer. I'm also not a probation officer.
Speaker 2: I'm also not the person who gets to decide what
Speaker 2: your outcomes and the reality of the people that love
Speaker 2: you will look like based on how I feel on
Speaker 2: any given day. And if I'd elected to apply for
Speaker 2: and was lucky enough to obtain one of those positions
Speaker 2: police officer, judge, you know, district attorney, politician, then I
Speaker 2: would need to be held to a higher standard because
Speaker 2: if my decisions are going to decide whether or not
Speaker 2: your kids grow up hungry or without you, or whether
Speaker 2: or not the mistake that you make carries more weight
Speaker 2: than a counterpart who might not look, live, pray, and
Speaker 2: love the way that you do. Then I would need
Speaker 2: to It would make sense for me to be held
Speaker 2: to a higher moral standard. I should be infallible. You
Speaker 2: should be able to comb through my secrets and realize
Speaker 2: that I don't have the same shortcomings as an everyday citizen.
Speaker 2: That should be required for me to sit in a
Speaker 2: position where I get to tell you you can't be
Speaker 2: free because I said so. People should be able to say, well,
Speaker 2: who are you to say so? And then I should
Speaker 2: be able to show you this listening resume of near
Speaker 2: perfection that I have. If I'm going to dismiss or
Speaker 2: suspend my empathy, if I'm going to dismiss or suspend
Speaker 2: being able to understand or relate to you, then you
Speaker 2: shouldn't be able to relate to me either. You should
Speaker 2: have to look at my recan and be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, he should be the one you know. He
Speaker 2: is a good father, He is a fair person, He
Speaker 2: has not committed crimes. He has shown in a history
Speaker 2: of decisions to be fair on all of these things,
Speaker 2: not some of most of them. And we allow too
Speaker 2: much in the way of missteps, mistakes, and mishandlings to
Speaker 2: people who willed way too much power, way too much
Speaker 2: I've used the example, and I've heard other people use
Speaker 2: the example before pilots. How you don't get to be
Speaker 2: the one bad apple or the two bad apples or
Speaker 2: the twelve bad apples that keeps crashing planes and ending
Speaker 2: people's lives. And that's because pilots, in the event that
Speaker 2: they do so, have to her and their union has
Speaker 2: to incur what those penalties look like. Same with doctor,
Speaker 2: same with almost every other profession except police. But as
Speaker 2: long as our police have the fiscal immunity that they
Speaker 2: have and are protected in a way where they are
Speaker 2: able to run a file and make the type of
Speaker 2: mistakes that could end your life figuratively and literally by
Speaker 2: taking away your freedom or by taking away your life,
Speaker 2: there is no reason for that system to be corrected. So,
Speaker 2: once again calling back to the cry that I kind
Speaker 2: of cringe that the first time I heard it, of
Speaker 2: defund the police, you have to go back and examine
Speaker 2: what the measurable outcomes would have been from the things
Speaker 2: that were put in place or being proposed at the time.
Speaker 2: Get passed the catchphrase or the slogan or whatever you
Speaker 2: want to call it, the positioner, and go and see
Speaker 2: what type of things they really wanted to put into place,
Speaker 2: what type of legislation, what type of actual reform, and
Speaker 2: what type of reallocating of resources were being proposed, and
Speaker 2: measure how the lives of so many people would have
Speaker 2: been shaped by those decisions.
Speaker 3: Well said masterful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is an ongoing conversation, and you know, I
Speaker 1: think that it's important that we discuss.
Speaker 3: How things look to.
Speaker 1: Again, systemic issues require systemic changes. Individual issues don't really
Speaker 1: move the needle, don't make people vote any differently anything
Speaker 1: like that. You mentioned the pilots. If one airplane crashes,
Speaker 1: there'll be a whole investigation and they will change all
Speaker 1: the laws for all of the airplanes in the world.
Speaker 1: And we need to have that same time of respect
Speaker 1: for black lives. So with that in mind, we'll leave
Speaker 1: that right there. Has always had like to thank you
Speaker 1: once again for tuning in to Civic Cipher. I have
Speaker 1: been your host Ramsey's job.
Speaker 2: He is still Ramsy's. Joh I remain Qward. Thank you
Speaker 2: guys repeatedly for coming to give us a listen and
Speaker 2: for letting our voices have some type of you know,
Speaker 2: impact in your lives. Please subscribe, Please share, like comment
Speaker 2: Some good comments would help Civiccipher dot com and Civic
Speaker 2: Cipher on every social media especially YouTube c I b
Speaker 2: I c c I p h e R and yes
Speaker 2: YouTube YouTube YouTube subscribe.
Speaker 1: Share real quick too. Before we go, I want to say,
Speaker 1: I want to shout out.
Speaker 3: To Philip some more time. Man, we love you brother.
Speaker 1: This is how these conversations go, So don't lose faith
Speaker 1: in us. Man, keep sending us letters and we'll keep
Speaker 1: the conversation going.
Speaker 3: And until next week, y'all. Peace, peace,