1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, we're coming to your town, so you better 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: get ready, put on your best duds and come out 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: and see us. But first buy some tickets. 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 2: That's right, we are finishing up. These are the last 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 2: shows or our twenty twenty three tour. We're gonna be 6 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 2: in Orlando, Florida on August twelfth, Nashville, Tennessee on September sixth, 7 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 2: and wind it all up here in Atlanta on September ninth. 8 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: Yes, and you can get all the info you need 9 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: and links to tickets which are on sale now at 10 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: our website Stuff youshould Know dot com on our tour page, 11 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: or you can go to linktree slash SYSK. 12 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you 15 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: should know. No, no, no, yes, yes, yes. 16 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 2: You should have said this CoA and welcome to the podcast, right, 17 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 2: because I want to issue a CoA on this one. 18 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: Okay. 19 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: This is one of those that is so broad and 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: dense and awesome that like I almost feel bad doing 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 2: it as a you know, forty five ish minute episode 22 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: of podcasts. Yeah, because afrofuturism is so vast. It's like 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: it's hard for sometimes these to not feel like we'll 24 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 2: explain what it is and then just like list a 25 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 2: bunch of awesome people. Yeah, you know, but this, you know, 26 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: this one is of all of our episodes, this one 27 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 2: is meant to wet the appetite more than most. I think, 28 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: as an introduction to what afrofuturism is, so you can 29 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 2: go check out lots and lots of stuff yourself, because 30 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 2: that's all I've been doing. 31 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, we should title it Afrofuturism one on one. 32 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 3: Maybe not even what's what's below one on one? 33 00:01:59,040 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: Ninety nine? 34 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 3: Okay, ninety nine, that won't make it. 35 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: I can't remember. There's actually a number for it, and 36 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: it's like remedial college courses that you have to take 37 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: to catch up. Man, I can't remember, but we'll look 38 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: it up and maybe that'll be there. 39 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, because we will get email saying how could you 40 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: not mention so and so? How could you not mention 41 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: so and so's other thing even though you mentioned them. 42 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 2: It's just one of those things. There's just too much. 43 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: But hopefully this will just introduce people to this idea 44 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 2: and this concept of this cultural aesthetic in philosophy. 45 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is definitely one of those episodes that 46 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: we should try to define what we're talking about first, which, 47 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: by the way, we took guph for not telling people 48 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: in depth who Milli Vanilli were. I was so taken 49 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: aback by that, Like, you know, it just didn't even 50 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: occur to me that we needed to go further into 51 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: defining Milli Vanilli from the outset. 52 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: I know, I thought even our younger listeners, I thought 53 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: that was such a big cultural thing that you know, 54 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: like I know about things before I was born. 55 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 1: Nope, nope, Well this is not Milli Vanilli. This is 56 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: what we're talking about. Afrofuturism and afrofuturism. Like you said, 57 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: it's a huge, big thing that has a lot of 58 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: different definitions, but probably the most succinct way I can 59 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: define it, and this is me defining it, is that 60 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: it is the visions of the future or fantasy worlds 61 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: or alternate realities, which all fall under the umbrella of 62 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: speculative fiction or speculative literature. Yeah, through a African American lens, right. 63 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll just drill down a little bit and 64 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: say that incorporates obviously literature, but music and dance and 65 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: every kind of art you can think of, movies obviously 66 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: in television, really kind of anything that has this cool 67 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: sort of sci fi bent. 68 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 3: Through the lens of African Americans. 69 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 2: And we'll get into more definitions, because you know, it's 70 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 2: one of those things that people can really pick apart 71 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: as far as what counts and what doesn't. And then 72 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 2: after it's around for a while, like should we even 73 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: be calling it this now? 74 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 3: And should we call it this? 75 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: And we'll get into all that, but suffice it to 76 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: say that, like all of this stuff is just really 77 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 2: cool and awesome and serves and has a title because 78 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 2: it is serving people that has been underserved when it 79 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 2: comes to science fiction. 80 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's kind of evolved in parallel as its 81 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: own thing, but it grew out of originally science fiction writing. 82 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: So when most people think of afrofuturism, they think of 83 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: sci fi novels essentially. Yeah, but once you start to 84 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: look into afrofuturism and start to understand what it is, 85 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: you see it popping up all over the place, like 86 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: it was right there in plain sight for me and 87 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: I never really realized what I was looking at. I 88 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: was just kind of taking all of it as like 89 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: individual like artistic things rather than a part of a collective. 90 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: So it's cool to see that there is one giant 91 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: movement that it's a part of. But like I said, 92 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: it does definitely have its roots in science fiction, which 93 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,679 Speaker 1: is pretty appropriate because as far as any literary genre goes, 94 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: science fiction has explored the themes of race and racism 95 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: and otherness and alienness more than any other I would. 96 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 2: Say, yeah, And I have a little stat to sort 97 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: of drive home my underserved point, and this was from 98 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen in Voxo. It's a little dated and things 99 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 2: have gotten better since then, for sure, but eight percent 100 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 2: at the time, eight percent of the top grossing sci 101 00:05:55,120 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 2: fi films of all time featured black protagonists, and four 102 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 2: percent of those were Will Smith. 103 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: Oh wow. 104 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 3: So aside for Will Smith, four percent of movies. 105 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 2: And then of course, if you look at you know, 106 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: the big two Star Trek and Star Wars. You know, 107 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: the Star Wars got a lot better now, but the 108 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 2: original trilogy had one black character, of course, Lando, and 109 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 2: then Star Trek, which I know nothing about, and I'm 110 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: sure things have changed since then as well, But at 111 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: the time, I think only had and all of the 112 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 2: Star Trek properties had it said less than twelve black characters. 113 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 2: And I'm not sure what that means. Why I didn't 114 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 2: say eleven unless one was on the fence. 115 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 3: I have no idea. 116 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, that is an odd way to 117 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: put it, for sure. 118 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 3: I bet a trick he could explain it, though. 119 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: I speaking of every time I read or research about 120 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: Star Treker, it just comes up. I have to go 121 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: watch that William shattn or Saturday at Live appearance from 122 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: the Bees. 123 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, get a life. 124 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: He's speaking at a Star Trek convention. It's just priceless 125 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: every single time. If you've ever seen that, just look 126 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: up William Shatner Star Trek Convention Saturday Night Live and 127 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: you won't be disappointed. 128 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and for our younger listeners, William Shatner is an actor. 129 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 3: Right from before you were born. 130 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: And acting is where you perform something that you're actually 131 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: not on screen, any screen. That's right, So that eight 132 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: percent is actually progress compared to the early twentieth century. 133 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: And most people don't think that there were any black 134 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: sci fi writers. If you think about that, kind of 135 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: thing at all until the sixties, really, when a guy 136 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: named Samuel Delaney came along. He's often credited as the 137 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: first black sci fi writer. He made a huge splash 138 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: in the sixties, kind of almost single handedly taking the 139 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: genre of sci fi out of the realm of Martians 140 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: are invading an Earth outpost to let's explore sexual irritation, 141 00:07:54,320 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: gender fluidity, race in really like high handed manner, producing 142 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: books that were over eight hundred pages long in some cases. 143 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: But he really moved things along. So not only was 144 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: he one of the first African American sci fi writers, 145 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: he was one of the first to take sci fi 146 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: into much deeper directions. 147 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. 148 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: But he's also a guy that when you see interviews 149 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: with him, and I watched quite a few, super cool guy, 150 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 2: but he's one of the first ones to say no, no, no, 151 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 2: I had people before me. It never became hugely popular, 152 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: probably for obvious reasons. But there was a guy in 153 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: eighteen fifty seven named Martin Delaney who was a kind 154 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 2: of a jack of all trades. He was a doctor 155 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: and a journalist and an author and abolitionist. He wrote 156 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 2: a book, a novel called Blake or the Huts of America, 157 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: which was as a lot of these are alternate histories 158 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: that kind of suppose, like what would life be like 159 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 2: had either slavery not happened or slave rehappened in a 160 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: different way, or what if, you know, the white people 161 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 2: were enslaved and black people were on top. And it's 162 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 2: just sort of looking at kind of a lot of 163 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: things through the lens of the diaspora. And you know, 164 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 2: I'm not into sci fi books, I never have, but 165 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 2: a lot of this stuff it made me want to 166 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 2: read sci fi for the first time just because it 167 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 2: sounds so cool. 168 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 3: Because I love alternate history. 169 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, and that's definitely a part of speculative 170 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: fiction alternate history in general. But yeah, Martin Delaney's Blake 171 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: or the Huts of America was written in eighteen fifty seven, 172 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: and it wasn't until I mean, I think that another 173 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: couple decades things would come out sporadically. But there was 174 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: a guy named Edward Johnson who wrote Light Ahead for 175 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: the Negro in nineteen oh one, and he imagined a 176 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: black man who was transported to a socialist version of 177 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: the United States in two thousand and six, where things 178 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: were much much better. So these ideas, these all alternate 179 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: histories are kind of coming out little by little, but 180 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: they are very very clearly under the what you would 181 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: call now speculative fiction umbrella. And they were written by 182 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: African Americans much earlier than Samuel Delaney, long before he 183 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: was even born. This stuff was happening. It just was 184 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: happening like almost in a vacuum. Like a black author 185 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: or a black leader would have a great idea to 186 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: get his point across by writing an alternate history, and 187 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: that was it. There wasn't like a genre, There wasn't 188 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: a movement or anything like that. 189 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 190 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 2: And Delaney also points out that the like the old 191 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: pulp rags, a lot of those were written anonymously and 192 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: it kind of was an area of literature where people 193 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 2: of color, women who you know, couldn't get published published 194 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 2: as readily at the time, they could write under these 195 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 2: pseudonyms and get their stories out in these pulp magazine 196 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 2: articles and stuff and stories. And he's like, you know, 197 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 2: who knows how many you know African Americans are writing 198 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 2: this kind of stuff. 199 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you did the whole thing through the mail, 200 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: and apparently at the time you were more likely than 201 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: not to be using a pseudonym for that stuff, because 202 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: that was just like keeping the electricity on kind of writing, 203 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, so that's a really 204 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: great point. But I think the underlying thing here is 205 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: the reason that there weren't more black authors of sci 206 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: fi in part was because it was just writing in 207 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: general literature in general. There was like a general push 208 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: to keep African Americans out of things like that as 209 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: much as possible. And then as African Americans became more 210 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: and more integrated into American society, the thing that kept 211 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: African Americans out of sci fi writing actually came down 212 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: to one guy who was named John W. Campbell Junior. 213 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: And it's just slightly hyperbolic to say he was the 214 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: glass ceiling that that the gatekeeper that kept sci fi 215 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: white for decades. 216 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was definitely one of the one of the gatekeepers. 217 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: He was an editor of I think back then it 218 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: was called Astounding Science Fiction. It went by a bunch 219 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 2: of other names, and now it's around as Analog science Fiction. 220 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: In fact, yeah, in fact, yeah, I said that with 221 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 2: a comma, but in fact it's a period. Actually there's 222 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: no period, but he was the editor, and like you said, 223 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 2: he was a guy that you know, he wrote a 224 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 2: bunch of essays in the nineteen sixties that supported segregation. 225 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 2: At one point he called slavery a useful educational system. 226 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 2: And because of guys like him that were gatekeepers, these 227 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 2: stories didn't get through and people like Delaney and Octavia 228 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 2: Butler who were going to talk about a lot more. 229 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 2: She talked about being in school and even her teachers 230 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: saying things like, you know, unless it's like really necessary 231 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 2: for the plot, Like you shouldn't have a black protagonist 232 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 2: unless it's like for a reason, or you know, if 233 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 2: you're going to talk about race in a way, you 234 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: know in science fiction, maybe like make them extraterrestrial instead 235 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 2: of black. It's sort of like a metaphor because it's 236 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 2: kind of too heavy for people to, you know, to 237 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: really take right. 238 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: Octavia Butler wrote a really great essay in nineteen eighty 239 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: called the Lost Races of Science Fiction, and she took 240 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: on that excuse for why there wasn't more black people 241 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: in science fiction works. And she's zeroed in on Star 242 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: Wars as an example, the first one. And she said 243 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: war okay, planet wide destruction okay, kidnapping okay, but the 244 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: sight of a minority person, too heavy, too real. So 245 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: she's pointing out that, like there's plenty of real world 246 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: stuff that you could consider pretty horrible. Yeah, that is 247 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: just fine in science fiction, but race is too distracting. 248 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: And that was like just kind of the drum that 249 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: was beaten by guys John W. Campbell. And the reason 250 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: why they were so powerful was because at the time, 251 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: if you wanted to get your novel published, basically the 252 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: most direct route was to have it serialized first in 253 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: one of those magazines that guys like John W. Campbell edited, 254 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: and then if you keep black authors out of black 255 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: sci fi, you also largely keep black readers out of 256 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: sci fi too, And just by preventing people like Samuel 257 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: Delaney from getting his stories serialized, black sci fi writers 258 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: were basically kept out. And as Janette Ing, who won 259 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: Best New Writer of twenty nineteen for science fiction writing, 260 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: I can't remember which award, I think it was actually 261 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: maybe that same award from Analog Science Fiction. In fact, 262 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: she said that sweet it really is. She said that 263 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: John W. Campbell had kept science fiction stale, sterile, male 264 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: white exalting of imperial aspirations, colonialism, settlement, and industrialism and 265 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: she was basically just, I mean, we're not gonna harp 266 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: on this the whole episode, but there was a huge 267 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: block in this particular genre, and it was just a 268 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: handful of people who everybody else went along with it. 269 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 2: Seems like, for sure, I think that's a great initial 270 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 2: fifteen minute overview, and we'll come back and talk just 271 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 2: about the term itself and where it came from right 272 00:15:34,480 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 2: after this. All right, So afro futurism, it's kind of 273 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 2: hard to say quickly sometimes. It was coined by a 274 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: white writer named Mark Dairy in the early nineties and 275 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three and a piece called Black to the Future. 276 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 2: And in that piece he interviewed a few writers, Delaney, 277 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 2: a music writer named Gregory Tait, and Tricia Rose, who 278 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 2: was a sociologist, and basically was like, the whole point 279 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:39,479 Speaker 2: of the essay was why are there so few working novelists, 280 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 2: African American novelists working in this genre? What happened to 281 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 2: get us here? Why aren't there more now? And what 282 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: can we do about it to change this in the future. 283 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: And he's like, especially like science fiction seems especially suited 284 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 2: for people of color because and this is a great 285 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 2: quote he said, in a very real sense, they're the 286 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 2: descendant of alien abductees, and like, when you think of 287 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 2: it like that, it makes a lot of sense that 288 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 2: sci fi would kind of be, you know, something that 289 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 2: really fits. 290 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was right. It turned out to be 291 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: a great fit for African American sci fi writers. But 292 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: still at the time there were basically four that he 293 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: could think of, including Samuel Delaney and Octavia Butler. Then 294 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: also a guy named Steve Barnes who's written basically everything 295 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: that has anything to do with science fiction, and then 296 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: another fantasy author named Charles Saunders. And that was basically it. 297 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: And this was the mid nineties that this guy was 298 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: writing this essay and doing these interviews. But he hit 299 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: it right on the head that it is a really 300 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: great basis or springboard for black writers to kind of 301 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: explore the past and the future. But he defined it 302 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: as a speculative fiction that treats African American themes and 303 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: addresses African American concerns in the context of twentieth century technoculture. 304 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 1: And he took what was already happening and firmly labeled 305 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: it and put a lot of constraints on it. When 306 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: he coined the term afrofuturism and then defined it like that. 307 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's where there is some I guess debate 308 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 2: over whether or not it should be strictly limited through 309 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 2: the lens of African Americans and the diaspora or just 310 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 2: Black culture worldwide as a whole. And you know, well, 311 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 2: I think at the end we'll talk about some of 312 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: the some other more inclusive names that kind of encompass all, 313 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 2: you know, kind of worldwide black culture. 314 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 3: But there are people that kind of are on both 315 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 3: sides of the fence. 316 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: And I mean, I guess for me, you know, I 317 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 2: just I just think it's all great, So nitpicking about 318 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 2: you know, the exact definition is not for me, but 319 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: we have to point it out that that it's out there, 320 00:18:58,960 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 2: and then there is a debate. 321 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and one of the big things is whether it's 322 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: specifically African American, because there's a lot more black communities 323 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: out there than just African Americans. They're one of many. 324 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: You've got the entire continent of Africa and all of 325 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: its various groups. You've got the diaspera, like you said, 326 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: African American descendants or African descendants living in Europe, and 327 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: Asia and all around the world. Then there's even like 328 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: sub types as well, like the African American diaspora is 329 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: made up of people whose ancestors were enslaved in America 330 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: and then once they were free, moved out of America 331 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: into Mexico, Canada, wherever. So there's a lot of different groups. 332 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: And what Mark darry did was situated exclusively in the 333 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: realm of African Americans. That's a big that's a big 334 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:52,479 Speaker 1: point of debate still today. 335 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 2: The other thing Womack points out in that book, which 336 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 2: you know is very easy for like a middle aged 337 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: one guy to overlook, is the fact that these afro 338 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 2: futurist themes are a way of she talked about a 339 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: method of self liberation, self healing. So you know, to 340 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 2: imagine a future for your race is a hopeful thing. 341 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 2: So if you're in a hostile world, it's probably very 342 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 2: easy to have a very bleak depiction of the future 343 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: of your people. And these stories like they're sure it's 344 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 2: science fiction, and it's you know, science fiction is always 345 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 2: just sort of. 346 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 3: Not light. 347 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: It's actually very heavy in a lot of cases, but 348 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 2: maybe not to be taken seriously by some people. 349 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 3: But you know, I just I don't think it's like that. 350 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: I think that it can offer very heavy commentaries and 351 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 2: it can offer hope to people that like, hey, if 352 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 2: we can write about ourselves in the future, that means 353 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 2: we can imagine ourselves like thriving in the future. 354 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. And similarly, it's a way for African Americans and 355 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: people of African descent in general to stake a claim 356 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: of the future too, right, because if you think about 357 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: the future, and I think Mark Darry made the point like, 358 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: if you look at Tomorrowland from a Disney World in Disneyland, 359 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: it's super white, and the future in general is just white. 360 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: It's like a projection of current times. And afrofuturism says, nope, 361 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: there's a different way of looking at it too, and 362 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: that this was the one that kind of triggered them understanding. 363 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: For me, the distinction between afrofuturism and just any other 364 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: kind of say sci fi that features like a black 365 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: character is that you're not just taking like an African 366 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: American and making him or her them an astronaut in 367 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: the structure of the current imagined future, which again is 368 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: super white. The basis of afrofuturism is completely reimagining the future, 369 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: completely reimagining the past through a black lens, kind of 370 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: like if you if black people were in charge of 371 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: producing the future. This is a vision of what it 372 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: could be like kind of thing. Yeah, rather than just 373 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: following along the current trajectory that we've been on all 374 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,719 Speaker 1: this time in America, which is a super white trajectory 375 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: that includes other people, but the basis of everything, the 376 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: structure of everything is through the white lens. This is 377 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: taking it through a black lens. And it's I saw 378 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: it puts defamiliarizing what we think of as like the future. 379 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 3: Oh I like that term. 380 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought so. I thought you would. 381 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense. 382 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 2: There's one guy who we have to mention who is, 383 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 2: you know, a complicated guy to say the least, and 384 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 2: that is one of the first sort of twentieth century 385 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 2: afro futurist writers, who is George Schuyler. And he wrote 386 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 2: generally for black publications, but he wrote all these books. 387 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 2: He wrote novels and essays and shorts, stories and things. 388 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,959 Speaker 2: Sometimes there were pulp stories, and they were exactly what 389 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: we've been talking about. That was one in the thirties, 390 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,719 Speaker 2: these serialized pulp stories about a global black uprising against 391 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 2: white colonialism. But he wrote these under pseudonyms, the pseudonym 392 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 2: Samuel I. Brooks and Skuyler himself in IRL would write 393 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 2: essays kind of slamming stories that he wrote as Brooks. 394 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 2: He wrote he said it was hokum and hack work 395 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 2: in the purest vein and was a very conservative guy 396 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: in his real life, and like backed Joseph McCarthy's campaign 397 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 2: against communists, and he was sort of opponent of the 398 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 2: civil rights movement. And it's just, man, I need to 399 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 2: dive into this guy a little more and see that's 400 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: some serious complication right there. 401 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: You know for sure he is. But he wrote that 402 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: book Black No More, where you you could visit a machine, 403 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: pay fifty dollars and after a three day process be 404 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: turned from black to white. And it completely up ends 405 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: society and civilization, both in the white community and the 406 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: black community. And he wrote that as George Skyler, the 407 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: conservative guy, but he's considered one of the first progenitors 408 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: of the of afrofuturism in the twentieth century. And then 409 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: simultaneously chuck as guys like Skyler are writing and Samuel I. Brooks, 410 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: who's the same guy as they're writing afrofuturism. A musical 411 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: form of afrofuturism is kind of developing too. And if 412 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: you look back in the past, it was just a 413 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: few people popping up and doing something that eventually, a 414 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: couple decades later you could say, I'll fall into this 415 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: same general category. 416 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean these are all sort of in the 417 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 2: cases of Skyler and the guys we're about to talk about, 418 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 2: is all these are all like retroactive titles, right because 419 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 2: that and wasn't around back then. But you can't talk 420 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 2: about afrofuturism without talking about George Clinton and Sun Raw 421 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 2: on the music side, and I spent the basically all 422 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: day listening to a Sun Raw playlist, and it is 423 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 2: you know, I have to be in the mood for 424 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 2: this kind of jazz. Is it's tough, it's very free form, 425 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 2: it's very odd, and it's not like, you know, this 426 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,479 Speaker 2: very melodic, super listenable kind of thing. It's challenging music. 427 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 2: And Sunraw was a really interesting guy. He was born 428 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 2: in Birmingham in nineteen fourteen as Herman Blount, and he 429 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 2: moved to Chicago in the forties and played a little 430 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 2: more traditional type jazz. But in the sixties he went 431 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 2: to New York and things, really he really freed himself 432 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 2: up of what the idea of jazz or just composed 433 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 2: music could be. He was an out there cat in 434 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 2: all the right ways. 435 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: For sure, and he made more than one hundred and 436 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: fifty albums with this orchestra, and the whole premise of 437 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: it was that he was essentially kind of like the 438 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: prophet returned from Saturn to help lead humanity, if not 439 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: just African Americans off of Earth, because things like slavery 440 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: had ruined Earth. And he had this whole mythos. This 441 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: wasn't just like a concept album that he put. 442 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 3: This is his whole career career. 443 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for decades. This is how he lived and 444 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: he inspired a lot of people. And I'm with you, 445 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: that kind of jazz is hard for me to listen to, 446 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: no matter who's playing it. But he had an album 447 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: from nineteen fifty seven that I think is super easy 448 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: to listen to called Supersonic Jazz. Yeah, I think it's 449 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: technically before, Yeah, it's before he moved to New York 450 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: and really set up the orchestra, but it's clearly son 451 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: raw like you can you can tell. So if you 452 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: want to try Son Raw and you've tried some of 453 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: his later stuff and you're like, I'm not ready for this, 454 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: listen to Supersonic Jazz that album first and see what 455 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: you think. 456 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good. Don't lead them down that. 457 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 2: That confusing so confusion jazz fa Yeah, much more accessible 458 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 2: is George Clinton and Parliament Funkadelic, right, Yeah, I'm a 459 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 2: big fan. I always have been. I tend to lean 460 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 2: more towards the Funkadelic records than the Parliament, even though 461 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 2: I love the Parliament stuff too. But he is someone 462 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 2: I've seen a few times and live, and I'm going 463 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 2: to see him again next month where at Symphony Hall 464 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 2: where we're performing. I just like to share the same stage. 465 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 2: Not at the same time, obviously, but just to be 466 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 2: on the same stage that George Clinton will be on 467 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 2: or had been on. 468 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 3: It's pretty cool. 469 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not worthy, but always a great show. His 470 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,239 Speaker 2: band is is awesome. I mean, it's all it's very 471 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 2: space age. He used to have the mothership that would 472 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 2: come down on the stage and he would enter the mothership. 473 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 2: Just it's a great sort of feast for the eyes 474 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 2: and ears. 475 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: Hey, that reminds me before you go on. I'm sorry 476 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: to interrupt, but there just coincidentally, the main exhibit right 477 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: now at the National Museum of African American History in 478 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: DC is Afrofuturism. Oh cool, And one of the cool 479 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: things they have on display is a replica of the 480 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: UFO that George Clinton would come on the stage and. 481 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 3: The mothership there. 482 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 483 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 3: Is it like life size? 484 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it's like an exact replica because apparently somebody 485 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: threw away the one that he used in the seventies, 486 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: and in the nineties when they started touring again, they 487 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: made a replica and I think that's the exact one 488 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: that's in the Smithsonian. 489 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 490 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 2: Well, the first time I saw him was when he 491 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: started up again and he was on that lat of 492 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 2: Paloza tour and he played a show. I saw him 493 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 2: at the Lalla Palouza, but I saw him the night 494 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 2: before at the Center Stage Theater. 495 00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 3: Hey, we have also played there. 496 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: Actually, George Clinton all over the place. 497 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: But he did the show at the Center Stage and 498 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 2: you know, he was getting up there in age at 499 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 2: the time back then. I imagine when I see him 500 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 2: next month, like he's an older guy now. 501 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 3: But he was. 502 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 2: He was still getting down back then, and he had 503 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 2: the BAC Boys came out at the end and because 504 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 2: they were playing Lolla Plues and it was sort of 505 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 2: like this all star thing and it was pretty great. 506 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 2: But Clinton was a kid who listened I'm sorry. He 507 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 2: watched Star Trek and Buck Rogers and was into sci 508 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: fi and it was just again, it was one of 509 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 2: those things where he didn't see any representation. 510 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 3: He just knew what he liked. Apparently took acid. 511 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 2: Later on and watched two thousand one of Space Odyssey 512 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 2: in Fantasia when he took LSD for the first time, 513 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 2: and that, you know, had some pretty profound impacts. 514 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: So one of the things that I didn't realize because 515 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: you know, we're living in the post Parliament era, but 516 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: one of the things that Parliament did was unite a 517 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: generally fractured black community. After the MLK assassination, Apparently there 518 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: was a lot of just fracturing in the black community, 519 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: and a few years later George Clinton came along and 520 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: kind of tried to bring people together by by throwing 521 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: a party for for for the African American community in 522 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: the United States and the world. Really and so the 523 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: whole whole premise was that George Clinton and the rest 524 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: of the p Funk All Stars, who includes like Bernie 525 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: Warrel or Bernie Warrel and Bootsy Collins. They were aliens 526 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: who'd come to Earth to teach everybody how to party. Yeah, 527 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: they were this is a quote afronauts capable of funketizing galaxies. 528 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, man, it's so cool. 529 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 2: I want to quickly mention local Atlanta guy Lonnie Holly 530 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 2: as well. Lonnie, you remember Matt Arnett, our friend who 531 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 2: well we know Matt through a lot of different way 532 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 2: here in Atlanta, but big supporter of the arts, and 533 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 2: Matt is Lannie's kind of friend, and I guess I 534 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 2: guess he's his tour manager and manager. But Lonnie Holly 535 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 2: is is a modern representation of sort of what afro 536 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 2: futurism is and still plays these small shows. 537 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 3: And his stuff is. 538 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 2: Really really good and just soulful and like intense and weird. 539 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 2: It's really cool. 540 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's super cool. I've never heard his stuff, but 541 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to check it out now. 542 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you can see him live, because that's when 543 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 2: it gets really kind of awesome. 544 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: Well, take me to a show. 545 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 2: Well, he didn't play a lot. I just saw he 546 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 2: played in New York recently, because Michael Stipe of course 547 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 2: was there. 548 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: You finally up to New York. What's your problem? 549 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 2: I saw Matt in court the other day, so we 550 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 2: were only able to text from across the court room. 551 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: There's got to be a story there. 552 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 2: We were both fighting the man, you know, we were 553 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 2: both right and basically just the bureaucracy of Atlanta had 554 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 2: kept us down and find us for various things hashtag 555 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 2: hero Yeah, I can get into it later, but both 556 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 2: of us were like, this is such bs. 557 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: So yeah, so the whole parliament mythos that kind of developed. 558 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: It actually did help bring people together quite a bit. 559 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: And it was just kind of a point where not 560 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: just black people, but white people and people of all 561 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: color who were into funk could really just come together 562 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: and agree on that, which is like if you just 563 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: kind of look at it like that, it's like, yeah, 564 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: they had a band and a lot of people like them, 565 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: but if you just kind of scratched just one level down, 566 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: that's really significant to make something on purpose, to purposefully 567 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: bring people together and not to talk about problems, not 568 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: to hammer issues out or anything like that, but just 569 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: to kind of give everybody a place to kind of 570 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: breathe and chill together and get away from the rest 571 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: of the issues and just kind of come together. That's 572 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: what Parliament did, and I think that's pretty neat and 573 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: they're not the only group that ever did that, But 574 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: it seems that George Clinton's express purpose was doing that 575 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: from what I From what I can. 576 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 2: Tell, Yeah, and he put his own like cool psychedelic 577 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 2: futuristic spin on it, you know. 578 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: And another just real quick side thing. Another a musician 579 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: that's often overlooked but sometimes cited as afrofuturist is Lee 580 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: Scratch Perry, who created dub reggae, and he did do 581 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: some kind of far out stuff. He was a far 582 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: out dude apparently. But like just his music alone has 583 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: like this spacey vibe to it that you just you're 584 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: overlooking it if you don't include it in afrofuturism. 585 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, we have to talk about art a 586 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 2: little bit. I mean, all of this is art, obviously, 587 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 2: but Jean Michel Basquiat one of the great artists in 588 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 2: our history here in North America. He is one of 589 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 2: the first afro futurists of in the fine art world, 590 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 2: and he was a guy that was was listening to 591 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 2: Funkadelic in Parliament in groups like that, and hip hop 592 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 2: culture informed his art. There was this graffiti artist and 593 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 2: Moore named Rammelsey who I looked into. This guy man, 594 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 2: I had never heard of him. He died in twenty ten, 595 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 2: but he was a sculptor and a writer and a 596 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,760 Speaker 2: performance artist and graffiti artist, and his stuff looks really 597 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 2: really cool. And he was definitely one of these guys 598 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 2: that was, you know, dressing up is like this futuristic showgun. 599 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 2: He was blending cultures and genres and baskingout was buddies 600 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 2: with him. So all these people were doing this stuff. 601 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't like, Oh, I'm going to seek 602 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 2: fame and fortune as a graffiti artist who dresses up 603 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 2: like a futuristic samurai. 604 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: Right. 605 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 2: They were doing this stuff because it was like what 606 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 2: moved them. And it stands out because there weren't a 607 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 2: lot of black people doing this kind of thing. 608 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 1: Right, that's the initi of a movement. That's where it starts, rightly. 609 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: Octavia Butler is also I mean, she was a hallmark, 610 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: a founder of black science fiction writing and also afrofuturism. 611 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: But just like you were talking about Rammelsey in Basquiat, 612 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: like she wasn't trying to create like a place for 613 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: black people to write in science fiction. This was just 614 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: what she did to escape her own life and her 615 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: own self consciousness. She wrote sci fi stories like that's 616 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: where she went, and she was really good at it. 617 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: There's a really great kind of biography on her called 618 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: The Spectacular Life of Octavia Butler that was in Vulture. 619 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 1: That's worth reading. It really dives into her life and 620 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: her career. She was a really exceptional person, but she 621 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: just kind of started slow, was very much underpaid and overlooked, 622 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: and just kept at it and kept at it, and 623 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: finally in the nineties people really started to recognize her 624 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: and went back and looked at some of her past 625 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: work and said, this writer's pretty amazing. 626 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, she was the first sci fi writer to get 627 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:08,479 Speaker 2: a MacArthur Genius Grant. And there's a TV show last 628 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 2: year or the year before from her book Kindred from 629 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, which I didn't see. I saw the 630 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,800 Speaker 2: FX canceled it after one season, but that was about 631 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 2: the premise looked really cool. It was about a modern 632 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 2: black woman who time travels to meet her in the 633 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 2: people who enslaved her. And I remember seeing the trailers 634 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 2: and stuff. At the time, I was like, this looks 635 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 2: really good, but I didn't realize that it was in 636 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 2: Octavia Butler book. So I just learned that like today 637 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 2: or yesterday. 638 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was just one book, Kindred. She also had 639 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 1: a series called the xeno Genesis series from the eighties. 640 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: Parable of the Sewer was the beginning of a series 641 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: that she wrote, and I think it came out in 642 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, and that was the one that got 643 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: everybody's attention. And then they went back and were like, 644 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: oh good, this lady has a whole cannon that we 645 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: get to read now. Yes, she was pretty neat. I 646 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: strongly recommend going and reading The Spectacular Life of Octavia Butler. 647 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, should we take another break? 648 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 3: Yes, Okay, we'll take another break. 649 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 2: We'll talk about kind of where things stands now, and 650 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 2: also just talk about a lot of other great artists. 651 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: Right after this, so Chuck, things really started to change, 652 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: where afrofuturism went from this cool thing that kind of 653 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: existed sporadically into being the find by a white journalist 654 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: in the mid nineties into becoming mainstream starting in the 655 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: late nineties, thanks in large part, and I didn't really 656 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: realize this until you said it to Will Smith getting 657 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: roles like men in Black Independence Day, I am legend, 658 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: like just tons, He's been in tons of sci fi movies. 659 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: I never really realized it before, but he was a 660 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: huge kind of glass ceiling breaker for African Americans in 661 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: sci fi because up to that point, it was like 662 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: if you saw a black person in a sci fi 663 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: movie or a horror movie, you just knew that they 664 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 1: were one of the first ones to die. That's just 665 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: like this long standing kind of trop Yeah. Yeah, And 666 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,919 Speaker 1: it started to change in the nineties where they're like, oh, 667 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: actually we can use a black protagonist and they can 668 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: actually carry the movie at least if you get Will 669 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: Smith in there. Who else can we give a chance to? 670 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 3: Wesley Snipes? Yeah, he was in Blade. 671 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 672 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 2: The Matrix of course featured not in the lead, but 673 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,320 Speaker 2: they featured, you know, people of color in their trilogy. 674 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 2: I think more and more in the second and third 675 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 2: movies even and then you know today I was like, 676 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 2: is Jordan Peel and afro futurist filmmaker, and I read 677 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,319 Speaker 2: some stuff and like he's he dabbles in it. It's 678 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 2: it's not like straight up afrofuturism in the traditional sense 679 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 2: that you might think of, but there are certainly elements 680 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 2: of it in everything he's done, especially this last one. 681 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: And Nope, that was so cool. 682 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, no spoilers there, but that movie was 683 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 2: not the movie I thought it was. 684 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 3: It was way more sci fi and wayless horror. Sure, 685 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 3: but I think he's. 686 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 2: Kind of, you know, carrying that torch along in his 687 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 2: own way, in a way that's kind of dabbles in 688 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 2: afro futurism that that is way more mainstream, which is 689 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 2: a valuable thing. 690 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 3: You know. 691 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: Yes, that is a great example of what I was 692 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: talking about earlier, where I didn't really realize. I'd heard 693 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: the term afrofuturism before, obviously, but I'd never really he 694 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 1: looked into it until we started researching this, But when 695 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 1: I did, I realized, like it just pops up all 696 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 1: over the place. And that's a really good example of 697 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: his Jordan Peele's movies, Like they're not necessarily like the 698 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 1: whole point is afrofuturism. It's just it just shows up. 699 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: It's like an influence, it's a part of the whole thing. 700 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: And there's Coulson Whitehead's another good example of that too. 701 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: He is like one of the gleaming beacons of literature 702 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:35,280 Speaker 1: right now, and in his very realistic novels, fantastic stuff 703 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: can happen. And that's afrofuturism popping its head up as well. 704 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: Can It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the future, 705 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: but it falls under speculative fiction or speculative literature in 706 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:47,720 Speaker 1: some way, shape or form. 707 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess we can talk about music a little more. 708 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's because again, just like in movies in the 709 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: late nineties, things, even starting in the early mid nineties, 710 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: things really started to take afrofuturistic turn in music. 711 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and by way of hip hop, if you look 712 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,800 Speaker 2: at the history of hip hop, the DNA of afrofuturism 713 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,840 Speaker 2: is kind of woven throughout it. You know, earlier groups, 714 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 2: groups that I really like, like Diggable Planets and I 715 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 2: don't know if you ever listened to any Cool Keith stuff, 716 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 2: but Cool Keith had a character and a concept album 717 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,720 Speaker 2: he did called Doctor Octagon that was very weird and awesome. 718 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 2: I won't give away it's kind of weird. He's a 719 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 2: he's a time traveling guynecologist, So I guess I did 720 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,319 Speaker 2: kind of give it away, but it's really good Wu 721 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 2: Tang and of course specifically Riza with Bobby Digital. 722 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:45,359 Speaker 3: And then when I was. 723 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,760 Speaker 2: Looking at you know, like Beyonce uses kind of afro 724 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,320 Speaker 2: futuristic aesthetics and a lot of her videos and stage shows, 725 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 2: and so Launch does too. But when I was kind 726 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:01,800 Speaker 2: of reading about them and Janelle Monet, who's certainly really 727 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 2: represents afrofuturism, I could I was like Missy Elliott, Like, 728 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 2: why aren't we talking about Missy Elliott? Because she was 729 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 2: before all of them, and was could really get out 730 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 2: there as far as you know, talking about writing around 731 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 2: in spaceships and stuff. 732 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, and all of her videos are super afrofuturistic, even 733 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: when she's just sitting there in front of the camera 734 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: like raping, like she's doing weird stuff, or she's in 735 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,959 Speaker 1: outer space or she's in virtual reality or something like that. Yeah, 736 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:33,919 Speaker 1: she's definitely at least influenced, if not an influencer, of afrofuturism. 737 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: Another one I saw that I hadn't considered, but I'm like, 738 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 1: oh yeah, totally diggable planets. Especially their first album, they 739 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: were from outer space. They were insects from outer space 740 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: who'd come to help the world out, and I just 741 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:48,800 Speaker 1: never thought about that before. 742 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that saw that. Well, I got a side story 743 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 2: I'll tell you off air. But I saw them in 744 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,879 Speaker 2: college in Athens and then and. 745 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 1: You saw them in court last week. 746 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 2: And then the only time I saw them was on 747 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 2: their reunion tour. 748 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:03,839 Speaker 3: A couple of years ago. 749 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:04,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, cool. 750 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 2: So it was a big break in between, but it 751 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 2: was great. But their second album I think was really awesome, 752 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 2: and it wasn't afro futuristic. 753 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 1: No, but it's one of the greatest albums of all time. 754 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 3: So good. 755 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 2: All right, Well, we can't talk about all of the people, 756 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,360 Speaker 2: but we'll talk about a couple of more because I 757 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,919 Speaker 2: wanted to mention John Jennings and Stacy Robinson, who are 758 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 2: there in the comic book world, and they work under 759 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 2: the name Black Kirby, which is obviously a riff on 760 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 2: the great comic book artist Jack Kirby, and they reimagine 761 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 2: sort of Kirby stuff through the African American lens, and 762 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 2: things like the Unkillable Buck instead of the Incredible Hulk 763 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. 764 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 3: It's really cool looking. 765 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 2: And then they are I think influenced by one of 766 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 2: the first African American comic book. 767 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 3: Writers was Larry Fuller. 768 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 2: In the late sixties, he created a character named ebon 769 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 2: Ebo n which I. 770 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,800 Speaker 3: Think was the first black superhero, at least among the first. 771 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw one of the Black Kirby characters as 772 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: Major Sankofa or Sankopha. I'm not quite sure how you 773 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 1: say it, but it sancophies like a. It means like 774 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,480 Speaker 1: the spirit of going looking backward into the past and 775 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,360 Speaker 1: taking what's good there and take moving it into the future. 776 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 1: And it was Major Sankofa instead of Captain America, and 777 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: it's a It's just cool. I like that whole concept 778 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 1: for sure. 779 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, And if we're gonna talk comics, we have to 780 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,359 Speaker 2: shout out Stanley and Jack Kirby because they created Black 781 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:37,600 Speaker 2: Panther and that is sort of maybe the biggest, most 782 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 2: mainstream example of afro futurism on the big screen that 783 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,879 Speaker 2: we've ever seen. These Black Panther movies are huge, They're 784 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 2: wildly successful, they're award winning, and they are afro futuristic, 785 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:51,600 Speaker 2: like to a t. 786 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and apparently we have Chadwick Boseman to thank for 787 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,720 Speaker 1: keeping all of the African characters from having British accents. 788 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 3: Yeah. 789 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 1: Man, can you imagine like colonization a hooy, like all 790 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: these people British accents. So he insisted that they speak 791 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 1: with a South African accent, not the British kind, but 792 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,840 Speaker 1: the Osa. I did it that that dialect, that's the 793 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,799 Speaker 1: accent they were speaking with, the Hosasa. Yeah, I did it. 794 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:22,959 Speaker 1: I got a three times. 795 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:23,799 Speaker 3: It was pretty good. 796 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:29,879 Speaker 2: But I think it's hasa Nope, oh it's not not anymore. Okay, Well, 797 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 2: Trevor Noah says it different. It's a hard thing to do. 798 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 2: It's that uh the Zulu uh you know, I click 799 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,920 Speaker 2: language for lack of a better term, but it's it's 800 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 2: hard to do it because you have to click at 801 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,400 Speaker 2: the same time that you're saying something. 802 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:44,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 803 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,520 Speaker 2: I practiced it earlier and I was like, I can't 804 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,640 Speaker 2: do it, so I wasn't gonna try. 805 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:49,839 Speaker 3: But hats off to us. 806 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,959 Speaker 1: So halasa halasasa. 807 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,319 Speaker 3: That's how Trevor Noah said it, and of course he 808 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 3: was on this. I never mind. 809 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,480 Speaker 1: Well, he's from South Africa, so I'll defer to him. 810 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:06,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, So where are we now with afro futurism. We 811 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,239 Speaker 2: are in a better place than we've ever been as 812 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,560 Speaker 2: far as just more and more stuff. It's becoming more mainstream, 813 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 2: not as just sort of different in other than it 814 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,799 Speaker 2: used to be. But this is where we've gotten to 815 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 2: the point where people start to drill. 816 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 3: Down on the term. 817 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,560 Speaker 2: Some people say, like, you know, is it just too 818 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,799 Speaker 2: broad of a thing to call sort of all this 819 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 2: stuff afro man I keep messing that up afro futurism 820 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,839 Speaker 2: when it You know, there are people like I said 821 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,759 Speaker 2: beginning that said no, it should always I believe his 822 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,800 Speaker 2: name was. He's a science fiction fantasy writer Nigerian American 823 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:49,759 Speaker 2: name Tochi Anyabuchi said this should always be addressing or 824 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 2: at least allegorizing black suffering. Otherwise it shouldn't count. And 825 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:59,480 Speaker 2: so people have formed other words like astro blackness. That's 826 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:00,279 Speaker 2: a pretty cool one. 827 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, Ethno Gothic, that one's neat. 828 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that one too, the black fantastic magical realism. 829 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 2: There's another another Nigerian American science fiction writer name Indie 830 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,759 Speaker 2: Okora for I think I'm pronouncing that right, And she 831 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 2: coined the term African futurists and was like, you know, 832 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,239 Speaker 2: these these African American stories are great, but like, I 833 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 2: also like to tell the stories through the lens of 834 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,719 Speaker 2: you know, Africans, and so African futurism is rooted in 835 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 2: all these cultures. 836 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, African futurists and African jujuist for fantasy kind of stuff. 837 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, that was that debate I was talking about earlier. 838 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: It is like, is it just through the lens of 839 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,439 Speaker 1: African Americans or what? Yeah, so you said it, it's 840 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: gone mainstream. We've reached the point where it's becoming so 841 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,719 Speaker 1: mainstream that it's just part of pop culture. It's not 842 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:58,160 Speaker 1: like a separate, tangential or additional part of pop culture. 843 00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,880 Speaker 1: It's infused into pop culture. And so you get to 844 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: the point where you're like, do you even need a 845 00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,200 Speaker 1: name for this anymore? It is what it is. And 846 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:12,120 Speaker 1: if that's the case, then then people like Samuel Delaney 847 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 1: and all the people who came before him, Octavia Butler 848 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:20,799 Speaker 1: Son raw George Clinton, were fully successful Even if they 849 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:25,359 Speaker 1: didn't intend to create something like that, they were still 850 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,080 Speaker 1: successful in their own way. 851 00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I think it's so mainstream now. 852 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:35,880 Speaker 2: There are, for sure studio executives that are, like, we 853 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,840 Speaker 2: need a black people in space thing. Netflix has theirs, 854 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 2: why don't we have ours. 855 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,640 Speaker 1: That's exactly right, and that means mainstream yep. That means 856 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,720 Speaker 1: that everybody needs to figure out a new artistic path 857 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:49,360 Speaker 1: to blaze. 858 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:50,000 Speaker 3: That's right. 859 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:51,800 Speaker 2: And I don't feel bad making fun of those studio 860 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,399 Speaker 2: execs because they are they don't want to pay their 861 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,680 Speaker 2: artists fair wages, and that's why the writers are on strike. 862 00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 1: Just real quick, a couple more people. Manzel Bowman is 863 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,640 Speaker 1: a graphic designery, does amazing stuff. Lena Iris Victor an 864 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 1: amazing painter. Camasi Washington kind of carrying on the vibe 865 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 1: of son Rab but way way more melodic. And then, 866 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,839 Speaker 1: like you said, Janelle Money, she's the poster child of 867 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: afro futurism right now with her concept album Dirty Computer 868 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,600 Speaker 1: and a book set in the same world Memory Library, 869 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,880 Speaker 1: and she's just totally going nuts on it. And you me, 870 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,160 Speaker 1: by the way, just loves her, has a crush on her. 871 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,080 Speaker 2: She said, Well, she I was just about to say, 872 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,560 Speaker 2: she's also my celebrity crush, So you mean I share. 873 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:34,279 Speaker 1: That I gets pretty great. 874 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:35,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard not to. 875 00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:37,640 Speaker 1: I got to keep you and you, me and Janelle 876 00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:38,879 Speaker 1: Monet out of the same room. 877 00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,760 Speaker 3: Oh that's good. That Dirty Computer Man, what a great record. 878 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm going to see Beyonce later this year, 879 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 2: and I've never been to a big pop show like 880 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,040 Speaker 2: that in my life, and I just I like having 881 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,960 Speaker 2: you know, I'm not even I'm not even the hugest 882 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,359 Speaker 2: Beyonce fan, just because it's not something I listened too much, 883 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,080 Speaker 2: but like, you know, I want to go to one 884 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,959 Speaker 2: of these big pop shows, and like, who else should 885 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 2: I go to. 886 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,240 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna go see Taylor Swift. I'll go to Beyonce. 887 00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 1: H hice. 888 00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:09,880 Speaker 2: Well, I mean I'm sure that Taylor Swift show was 889 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,200 Speaker 2: great too, but yeah, Beyonce's looks like, I don't know 890 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:12,960 Speaker 2: more at my speed. 891 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,479 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift, her show, like this tour is apparently three 892 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:17,239 Speaker 1: hours long. 893 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's supposed to be amazing. My mom went, Actually 894 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,400 Speaker 2: she got free tickets to a friend. Yeah, and doesn't 895 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,320 Speaker 2: go to stuff like that and like big concerts and stuff, 896 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,719 Speaker 2: and isn't even a big Taylor Swift person, and she was. 897 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:29,680 Speaker 3: Just like it was so great. 898 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:31,719 Speaker 1: Well, I think we all knew at the beginning of 899 00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,360 Speaker 1: this episode that there was one hundred percent chance Taylor 900 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:35,680 Speaker 1: Swift was going to come up. 901 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:37,840 Speaker 3: Oh I saw that coming. 902 00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,920 Speaker 1: Well, if you want to know more about afrofuturism, you 903 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,360 Speaker 1: can do a lot worse than going to Instagram and 904 00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,799 Speaker 1: search for that hashtag and start looking. Just look all 905 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,040 Speaker 1: over the internet and you will find a whole new 906 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,200 Speaker 1: world of pretty cool stuff, including some stuff you already 907 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,120 Speaker 1: knew about but never really thought about. 908 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,200 Speaker 3: Okay, agreed. 909 00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,879 Speaker 1: Since Chucks had agreed, it's time for listener mail. 910 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,400 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna call this brown fat. 911 00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,239 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, delicious. 912 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked about that in our Oh gosh, why 913 00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:12,680 Speaker 2: am I blinking now? 914 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:14,960 Speaker 1: I think it was our Intermittent Fasting episode. 915 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,640 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I thought it was our Taylor Swift episode. 916 00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:22,200 Speaker 2: Hey, guys, just finish listening to Intermittent Fasting and was 917 00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,000 Speaker 2: so excited when brown fat was mentioned. I learned about 918 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,520 Speaker 2: brown fat this past year in school in my biochemistry class, 919 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,200 Speaker 2: and it's more amazing than what Josh was even guessing 920 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:30,960 Speaker 2: in the episode. 921 00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,399 Speaker 1: You were guessing. No, you were speaking, you were. 922 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:35,200 Speaker 3: Speaking some facts. 923 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,040 Speaker 2: Brown Fat's main biological purpose is to release heat to 924 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:40,480 Speaker 2: keep the body temperature stable. 925 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 3: I think I said that. 926 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,000 Speaker 2: Actually to do this, it actually breaks down white fat 927 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:45,480 Speaker 2: in a way that allows for more heat to be 928 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:49,239 Speaker 2: released per fat molecule burned than if regular cells were 929 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,080 Speaker 2: breaking down the white fat. Because this helps keep body 930 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,600 Speaker 2: temperature stable, people who live in cold environments adapt to 931 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,759 Speaker 2: living there by having more brown fat cells than people 932 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,240 Speaker 2: who do not. Babies are also born with high brown 933 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,399 Speaker 2: fat levels and keeps them helps them adapt to life 934 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,920 Speaker 2: outside the womb for the first few days. I just 935 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:09,600 Speaker 2: really want to thank you guys for everything you've done 936 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 2: for me over the years. Started listening in twenty eighteen 937 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 2: in high school. Just graduated with my bachelor's in chemical 938 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,160 Speaker 2: engineering from the University of Tennessee. 939 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,360 Speaker 1: Oh. Congratulations Tuesday, Govalls. 940 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,680 Speaker 3: And that is from Sarah Batton. 941 00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,880 Speaker 1: Thanks Sarah, thank you very much, and thanks to Brown 942 00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,400 Speaker 1: Fat too for being so great that Sarah wrote a 943 00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:30,640 Speaker 1: listener mail about it. 944 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:32,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean that's a band name. 945 00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:33,280 Speaker 1: I don't even think I'd. 946 00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:34,399 Speaker 3: Recognize it at the time as such. 947 00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,919 Speaker 1: Brown Fat. Yeah, like one of those albums where the 948 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,680 Speaker 1: name of the band, the first song, and the album 949 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,400 Speaker 1: are all the same. You know, I can't think of 950 00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,239 Speaker 1: one right now, but it's definitely out there. 951 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:47,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 952 00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, this whole conversation's petered out. So if you 953 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:52,279 Speaker 1: want to get in touch with us and let us 954 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,880 Speaker 1: know you graduated college, we say congratulations in advance. You 955 00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,440 Speaker 1: can send us an email to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio 956 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,839 Speaker 1: dot com. 957 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,080 Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 958 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,760 Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 959 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:10,400 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever 960 00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:11,880 Speaker 3: You listen to your favorite shows.