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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori

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Speaker 1: with you. Let me introduce Phoenix Lafee to you. Professional reader,

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Speaker 1: root worker, teacher, ritualist. She has been practicing witchcraft for

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Speaker 1: nearly twenty five years. Her teachings are connected to the

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Speaker 1: reclaiming tradition. We'll have her explain what that is. Phoenix

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Speaker 1: studied root work for several years with Katherine run. Additionally,

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Speaker 1: she is a graduate of the Hoodoo Correspondence Course and

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Speaker 1: a member of the Association of Independent Readers and root Workers.

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Speaker 1: She's the owner of the esoteric goddess shop called Milken Honey.

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Speaker 1: Her book is called What Is Remembered Lives. Phoenix, welcome

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Speaker 1: to the program. Thank you so much to be here.

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Speaker 1: What is a root worker? Root worker refers to a

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Speaker 1: specific tradition of magic. It's very focused with the South,

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Speaker 1: mostly with African American folks, and it is a practice

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Speaker 1: of using herbs and roots and different things in nature

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Speaker 1: to try and shift your life circumstances for the better.

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Speaker 1: Interesting and what is the reclaiming tradition that you are

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Speaker 1: part of? Yeah, so, there's different traditions of witchcraft. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of like there's an umbrella of Christianity with many

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Speaker 1: different flavors of Christianity, and witchcraft is the same. There's

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Speaker 1: many flavors of witchcraft. One of those flavors is called

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Speaker 1: the Reclaiming Tradition of Witchcraft, and it is more feminist,

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Speaker 1: more eco based. It was started by Starhawk, who many

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Speaker 1: people are familiar with because she does a lot of

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Speaker 1: ecological talks and training in the permaculture world, and it

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Speaker 1: is a little bit more focused on our relationship with

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Speaker 1: the earth and our relationship with healing the earth and

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Speaker 1: healing ourselves. So it's a unique flavor. Now, you're a witch, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm a witch. Sounds like you're a good witch. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm an excellent witch. I'm assuming you mean

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Speaker 1: the good bad huh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, ethics

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Speaker 1: is an interesting thing. You know, Hollywood has tainted this

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Speaker 1: a lot too. Yeah, yeah, it's true. And then there

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Speaker 1: are some things Hollywood has done that are kind of

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Speaker 1: cool and not totally made up. You know, there's a

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Speaker 1: few movies out there. Practical Magic is one of them.

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Speaker 1: It's not totally true. We don't bring people back from

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Speaker 1: the dead. But a lot of the things they do

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Speaker 1: in that movie are a lot of the things that

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Speaker 1: I do in my practice. How did you get involved

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Speaker 1: in witchcraft, Phoenix? Well, when I was a young teen,

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Speaker 1: I was not raised religiously, and I went through a

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Speaker 1: very difficult emotional upheaval in my life, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: in my fifteen year old wisdom, if only I had

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Speaker 1: been raised religiously, maybe this would be easier. So I

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Speaker 1: started exploring. I went to lots of different churches and temples,

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Speaker 1: I went to a synagogue. I started reading everything I

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Speaker 1: could get my hands on about different religions, and one day,

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Speaker 1: this is the mid nineties, one day I stumbled upon

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Speaker 1: a book about witchcraft and it talked about a goddess,

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Speaker 1: and it talked about earth worship, and it was all

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Speaker 1: of the things that I believed. I just didn't know

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Speaker 1: there was a name for it or that other people

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Speaker 1: were doing it. And that changed everything. I started reading

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Speaker 1: everything I could, and the internet was a new thing,

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Speaker 1: so when I had access to the Internet, I would

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Speaker 1: look things up and found groups that were practicing in

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Speaker 1: the town I lived in without me realizing that was happening,

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Speaker 1: and it just kind of grew from there. I haven't

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Speaker 1: looked back. What is Remembered Lives your book of course,

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Speaker 1: and the subtitle I was developing relationships with deities, ancestors

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Speaker 1: and the face, and I noticed the fae is spelled

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Speaker 1: as your last name, La Fay. Is there a tie

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Speaker 1: in there? Yes? Absolutely there. The fae is another word

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Speaker 1: for fairies, okay, right, and the conventional spelling of fairies

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Speaker 1: is with an eye, not with an e. And then

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Speaker 1: that is more it's kind of good to go back

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Speaker 1: to Hollywood for a second. That is, the Victorian world

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Speaker 1: had a huge impact on how we look at fairies

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Speaker 1: in a modern lens. We think of tinker Bell and

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Speaker 1: these cute little pixies, but fairies are nature spirits, really,

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Speaker 1: and so using that spelling is to delineate We're not

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Speaker 1: talking about tinker Bell. We're talking about a nature spirit,

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Speaker 1: something a little bit bigger, potentially even a little bit

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Speaker 1: more scary. And so it's to make it clear I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm not talking about what Hollywood wants you to

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Speaker 1: think of all. And is La Fay your real last

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Speaker 1: name or is that just your publishing name? That real

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Speaker 1: is an interesting word. It is my publishing name. But

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Speaker 1: it is also the name that I use out in

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Speaker 1: the world. Okay, all right, yeah, everyone knows me by

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Speaker 1: that name, although that's not the name I sign a

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Speaker 1: check with. You want them to clear right exactly when

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Speaker 1: we talk about witchcraft. Are you also a Wiccan? I

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Speaker 1: am also Wiccan. Wiccan is a again a specific tradition,

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Speaker 1: so I am part of the reclaiming tradition. And I

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Speaker 1: am also initiated into a Gardenerian Wicca, so it is

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Speaker 1: a specific lineage that I have followed for several years.

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Speaker 1: I'm technically a second degree Gardenerian Wiccanum. So yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: Wiccan is a title I use. We had a wonderful

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Speaker 1: witch you used to hear on the program for years, Phoenix.

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Speaker 1: Her name was doctor Evelyn peg Laney, and with that name, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's not with us anymore. She passed away several years ago.

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Speaker 1: She was into candles and rituals and things like that.

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Speaker 1: Do you do things like that, spells and things? Absolutely absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I do that for myself. I do that for my

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Speaker 1: beloveds and my family, and I also do that for

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Speaker 1: as part of my profession. People pay me to do

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Speaker 1: spells on their behalf. You don't sound like someone who

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Speaker 1: would douce curses. Am I right, No, I don't do curses.

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Speaker 1: I good for you. Yeah, I am not opposed to

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Speaker 1: other people doing what they feel is appropriate, but that's

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Speaker 1: not work that I do. You're more to help society

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Speaker 1: than her, absolutely, Yeah, big difference there. When we talk

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Speaker 1: about witchcraft, the word pagan comes up a lot too.

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Speaker 1: What's the difference there. Yeah, that's so tricky because you know,

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Speaker 1: people have lots of feels about this kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, pagan is this old word that basically meant

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Speaker 1: like the country bumpkin that lived outside of the city.

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Speaker 1: It was someone who was kind of uncous, someone who

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Speaker 1: didn't understand the laws of society and with on the outskirts,

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Speaker 1: and you know, in their fifties, nineteen fifties into the

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Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, really paganism started to be reclaimed. And it's

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Speaker 1: again this idea that we are connected to the earth.

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Speaker 1: It's this idea that there are many deities, not just

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Speaker 1: one supreme God, but many gods that we can talk

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Speaker 1: to and interact with. And there was this revival of paganism.

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Speaker 1: Pagan and witch are so related. They for me personally,

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Speaker 1: they're kind of interchangeable. In my life, I consider myself

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Speaker 1: a pagan, I consider myself a witch. I consider myself

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Speaker 1: a Wiccan. All of those things are very similar. But

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Speaker 1: there are definitely practitioners out there who are witches and

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Speaker 1: practice spellcraft and light candles and do rituals, but they

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Speaker 1: are not pagan. They don't want to work with the

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Speaker 1: earth energies, they don't want to talk to spirit, they

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Speaker 1: don't want to be involved with deities. And then there

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Speaker 1: are Pagans who are more ceremonial, more religious, I suppose

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Speaker 1: it'll be a good word for it, and they don't

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Speaker 1: do the witchcraft stuff. They're not lighting candles and doing

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Speaker 1: rituals or doing spell work. But for me, they're so interrelated.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine one without the other. But there's lots

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Speaker 1: of folks who consider themselves just one. In sixteen ninety two,

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Speaker 1: there was horrible, horrible situations going on in Salem, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 1: where they conducted this witch hunt. Literally, they are accused

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Speaker 1: of two hundred people of being witches. Thirty were found guilty,

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Speaker 1: nineteen of them were hung. I don't know if any

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Speaker 1: were burned at the steak. That may have been a myth.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure about that, but they did hang nineteen people.

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Speaker 1: If you were living during that time period, would they

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Speaker 1: have gone after you? Probably? I mean I have I'm

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Speaker 1: already kind of weird, you know, I get that in

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Speaker 1: mainstream society. I'm a kind of a weirdo. But I

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Speaker 1: also have you know, I've got a birthmark on the

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Speaker 1: back of my neck, i have red hair, I know

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Speaker 1: things about herbs. So it's likely they would have gone

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Speaker 1: after markers of a troublesome individual. Well, why do you

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Speaker 1: think in the sixteen hundreds, like that sixteen ninety two

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Speaker 1: going into seventeen hundred, they were so hysterical about this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, fear makes people do crazy things, and you

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Speaker 1: can work up a fervor without trying very hard. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can look at our modern society and see that

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Speaker 1: happening all over the place. It, don't you know. There's

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Speaker 1: the saying, you know, one person is great, and a

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Speaker 1: group of people is when trouble starts, you know. So

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Speaker 1: I don't think it takes much to get people's fears up.

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Speaker 1: It was a very strange time. Puritanical religion is a

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Speaker 1: very oppressive thing, and when people are oppressed, things come

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Speaker 1: out sideways, and unfortunately during that time it came out

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Speaker 1: with the murder of many people. Oh my god, it

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Speaker 1: was horrible. I wonder how it tempered and went away?

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Speaker 1: What what what caused it to kind of wane a bit? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's a really good question. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the hysterias started and then they went crazy.

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Speaker 1: They accused all these people, but then eventually it died down,

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Speaker 1: it went away. I wonder if you know societies accepted

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Speaker 1: it or what happened. Yeah, it's almost like a drunken bender,

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Speaker 1: you know, and people woke up and realized like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: what did we do? And and it subsided. There's also

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Speaker 1: some evidence, at least in Europe there there would be

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Speaker 1: people that came through witch finders, inquisitors, so you know,

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Speaker 1: and so on, and they would sort of incite this

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Speaker 1: fervor and cause neighbors to turn against each other and

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Speaker 1: people to accuse each other. And a lot of it

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Speaker 1: was if I point the finger at my neighbor, then

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Speaker 1: I know I'm safe. At least they're not going to

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Speaker 1: look at me. They're going to look at them. And

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Speaker 1: then these people would cause mass chaos and then just

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Speaker 1: move on to the next village. And I don't think

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Speaker 1: that's not what happened in Salem, but that was a

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Speaker 1: lot of what happened during the witch trials across Europe. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you weren't around there, Phoenix, during that time period.

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Speaker 1: We want to keep you around the title of your book,

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Speaker 1: what is remembered lives? Tell me about this. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: one of the things we say in the reclaiming tradition

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Speaker 1: of witchcraft when someone passes away is what is remembered lives.

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Speaker 1: And the more we tell the stories of our ancestors,

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Speaker 1: our beloved dead, the more we talk about those that

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Speaker 1: have crossed over, we keep their spirits alive. We remember them.

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Speaker 1: Therefore they live. And really that is the only way

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Speaker 1: to achieve immortality. Cleopatra is immortal because we remember for her,

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Speaker 1: we talk about her, we tell her stories. Everyone knows

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Speaker 1: the name Cleopatra. She is attained immortality. That's true, And

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Speaker 1: that's the concept of this book. If there are multiple gods,

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Speaker 1: if there are nature spirits, if we all have ancestors,

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Speaker 1: the way that we can connect to their energies is

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Speaker 1: to remember them and tell their stories and talk about

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Speaker 1: them and share that with other people. And spread that.

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Speaker 1: You know, the more people that tell the story of Cleopatra,

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Speaker 1: the more people that remember Cleopatra. So it feeds itself

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Speaker 1: as well. Did someone or something inspire you to do this? Yes,

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Speaker 1: one of my gods. Actually, I'm a polytheist. I believe

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Speaker 1: in many gods. Many gods, Okay, yes, and there are

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Speaker 1: I work with five. You're all entitled to believing what

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Speaker 1: you want. We're not going to burn you at the stake.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. So I work devotionally

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Speaker 1: with five different deities, and I've got a calling from

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Speaker 1: one of them that I needed to put some of

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Speaker 1: the work i'd been doing down in writing and share

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Speaker 1: it with the world. And that's kind of how this

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Speaker 1: all came to be. What exactly is a deity? Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, I teach a lot on this subject.

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Speaker 1: I leave these workshops called Goddess gatherings, and every gathering

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Speaker 1: we pick a different deity from a different place in

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Speaker 1: the world and tell their story and talk about the

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Speaker 1: culture they came from, and then I do a little

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Speaker 1: ritual for that deity. And basically, it's a spirit, it's

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Speaker 1: an entity, it's a you know, we everyone's well everyone.

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Speaker 1: Most of us are familiar with the Christian god sway

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Speaker 1: that the one big dude up there, and the idea

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Speaker 1: of polytheism or multiple deities is that that yahweh, the

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Speaker 1: big dude up there has many counterparts, many other gods.

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Speaker 1: And if at least in North America we go through

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Speaker 1: in school we learn about the Greeks and the deities

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Speaker 1: of the Greeks. That's pretty common, and they may have

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Speaker 1: been real too. Absolutely, something went off during the Greek period. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: so I use the Greeks as an example a lot,

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Speaker 1: because most folks are familiar with the Greeks at least

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But the Greeks believed in many gods,

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Speaker 1: and there was Aphrodite, who is a goddess of love,

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Speaker 1: and Mars, who is the god of war, and Hermes

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Speaker 1: is a god of communication. So instead of one entity

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Speaker 1: being in charge of everything, it was kind of delegated

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Speaker 1: to different spirits or different entities. So if you were

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Speaker 1: working on one specific thing, if you needed help, if

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Speaker 1: you were looking for a husband, a new romantic situation,

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Speaker 1: you might go to the temple of Aphrodite and give

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Speaker 1: offerings and her praises and ask her for help and

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Speaker 1: the way I work is I think we can still

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Speaker 1: do that. Do they work? Oh? Absolutely they do. Now

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Speaker 1: does the person who wants it done? You have to

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Speaker 1: be a believer. So let's say somebody comes to you

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Speaker 1: and needs you to do something for them, maybe they

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Speaker 1: want a better career or a better relationship, and they

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Speaker 1: ask you to do some spells and things like that.

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Speaker 1: What if they think it's mumbo jumbo? Is it going

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Speaker 1: to work for them? Yes? Yeah, absolutely, And that's why

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Speaker 1: some of the clients that they work with come to me.

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Speaker 1: Then it changes their mind. I bet right. Sometimes if

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Speaker 1: it works, sometimes they think that was coincidence, And that's fine.

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Speaker 1: Coincidence can be magic. There are no coincidences. Everything happens

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Speaker 1: for a reason. Now, what state of mind do you

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Speaker 1: have to be in yourself? Or? Do you meditate? How

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Speaker 1: do you get into this mode in order to attract

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Speaker 1: these entities? Yeah, meditations a big part of any spiritual practice.

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Speaker 1: And that's you know a lot of my student are

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Speaker 1: worried about doing things right and using air quotes when

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Speaker 1: I say right, there really isn't a right way. Spirituality

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Speaker 1: is so personal and so individual that it's important that

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Speaker 1: folks figure out what works best for them. So meditations

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Speaker 1: just a tool to quiet the mind and allow yourself

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Speaker 1: to open up to something potentially bigger than yourself. How

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Speaker 1: do you know you're in that grooves when it's really

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Speaker 1: clicking for you. One of the things that I've noticed

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Speaker 1: when I'm doing something and it's clicking, I get the chills,

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Speaker 1: like the hair on my arm stands up that I get.

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Speaker 1: I just get this feeling that something is happening, like

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Speaker 1: Odo and the movie Ghost. Yeah exactly, you got those

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Speaker 1: tingly feelings exactly, Yeah exactly. And sometimes it's very subtle,

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Speaker 1: and you have to start learning. The part of the

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Speaker 1: practice of witchcraft is learning to notice and feel and

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Speaker 1: hear those subtle things when they happen, so that you

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Speaker 1: can follow your intuition and your gut instincts. And those

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Speaker 1: those whispers get louder the more you pay attention to them.

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