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Speaker 1: M M.

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Speaker 2: This was done at the highest levels cloak and dagger diplomacy.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing they managed to pull it off. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think there was probably four people knew what was

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Speaker 2: happening yes year, Jamon and Jimmy Dunn and Ed Hurley

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Speaker 2: and that's it.

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Speaker 3: I got thoughts in my head. Can't get him John

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Speaker 3: and not the thing what I'm thinking about. I can't

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Speaker 3: get him John not to think well I'm thinking about.

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Speaker 1: Hello.

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Speaker 2: This is Alan Chipnook back for another Fire Drill podcast.

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Speaker 2: Quite a big day in professional golf. The New World

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Speaker 2: Order is upon us Live Golf, the PG Tour and

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Speaker 2: the European Tour emerging, many details to sort out. Many

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Speaker 2: subplots have Michael Bamberger and Matt Janella the line here

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Speaker 2: to help us make sense of what's really a momentous

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Speaker 2: moment for the entire sport. Gentlemen, what do we think?

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Speaker 4: Well, let's begin with you, Alan, what do you think?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, some people may know that I've been writing

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Speaker 2: a book about this whole thing. I just turned it

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Speaker 2: in a couple of days. I think the last chapters

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Speaker 2: are going to get tweaked a little bit, just a little.

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Speaker 2: I think at first blush. This is a huge win

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Speaker 2: for Live Golf. They now have access to every tour player.

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Speaker 2: They're going to be on the TV tour broadcast channels.

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Speaker 2: I think that this is this is Jaymonhan and the

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Speaker 2: PGA Tour salvaging the best of a tough situation. I

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Speaker 2: mean that the whole game was on this path of

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Speaker 2: you know, mutually assured destruction. To use an old Cold

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Speaker 2: War term. I mean it was it had become unsustainable

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Speaker 2: that the tour was losing sponsors, a lot of the

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Speaker 2: tournaments were going to wither and die. Live was entrenched

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Speaker 2: his own business model that was never going to make money,

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Speaker 2: and they have not been able to track any kind

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Speaker 2: of audience through streaming or television, and so it was

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Speaker 2: it was kind of a question of who is going

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Speaker 2: to blink first, and I think they blinked at the

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Speaker 2: same time and just realized, uh, we've this is like

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Speaker 2: trench warfare, like both sides are just shelling each other,

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Speaker 2: but no one's moving anywhere, and it's just a lot

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Speaker 2: of casualties. And it made sense to to put this

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Speaker 2: all back together. But you know, it's interesting that Jay

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Speaker 2: Monahan is not going to be reporting to his excellency.

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Speaker 2: You see all Roumayan, who's the chairman of the board

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Speaker 2: of this new enterprise. You know, Jay's the CEO. But

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Speaker 2: if there's any doubt about who who won this, this

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Speaker 2: this war, I mean, yes, hers is the chairman of

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Speaker 2: the board. He's the guy. And uh so a lot

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Speaker 2: of details still to be hashed out, but I think

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Speaker 2: at first blush to me, it's a monumental victory for

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Speaker 2: Live and I think for the tour it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: They've they've they've assured their long term future. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they have now unlimited money that they can tap into,

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Speaker 2: they can pay their players, they have this jazzy new

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Speaker 2: product that they could slot in, and the weakest parts

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Speaker 2: of the schedule on maybe some some tournaments that were struggling,

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Speaker 2: the Live will just sort of take those over and

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Speaker 2: and graft themselves on. And there's there's a there's there's

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Speaker 2: an interesting analog to this, which is cricket. You know,

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Speaker 2: I've been studying this. Cricket was much like golf, this

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Speaker 2: very slow, ponderous sport, hide bound by tradition. You know,

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Speaker 2: that's that's golf, right, And twenty years ago they went

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Speaker 2: to this thing called t twenty which is a much jazzier, shorter,

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Speaker 2: more consumable version of the sport, and the popularity exploded

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Speaker 2: not just for the new kind, but it also made

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Speaker 2: people appreciate the old way, and cricket massively grew its

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Speaker 2: audience and reinvented itself. And you know, live live could

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Speaker 2: be that. That's that sort of product which is is different.

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Speaker 2: It's not for everyone. Michael's never going to watch those

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Speaker 2: tournaments and that's okay. But you know, they have attracted

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Speaker 2: a younger audience. I mean, according to Greg Norman. We

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Speaker 2: don't have the receipts on this, but you know two

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Speaker 2: thirds of the live audience is under forty five, which

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Speaker 2: is massive. I mean, the PGA Tours audience is geriatric

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Speaker 2: and they're always chasing those those younger, younger golf fans.

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Speaker 2: So you know, I think if you look at this

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Speaker 2: as you know, Greg Norman's word from the very beginning

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Speaker 2: was additive. I think live golf could be additive to

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Speaker 2: what the PGA Tour is doing and it might be

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Speaker 2: a better sport overall.

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Speaker 4: So going forward on, do you think will there never

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Speaker 4: be weeks where there live events and PJ Tour events

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Speaker 4: in the same week and will PJ Tour stars like

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Speaker 4: Rory mcloy, will they now be able to play in

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Speaker 4: live events?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I mean they'll be a unified schedule,

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Speaker 2: so they they they definitely won't be competing against each other.

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Speaker 2: You know, they'll they'll they'll they'll be a they'll be

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Speaker 2: It'll make sense right how they put this whole thing

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Speaker 2: together and that that's a win for both sides, not

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Speaker 2: to not to have tournaments on the same week. Rory

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Speaker 2: is in a tough spot here. Is he going to

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Speaker 2: want to play the live events and take the money

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Speaker 2: and be part of the fun. I mean maybe, but

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Speaker 2: he's staked out such a tough position here. It'll be

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Speaker 2: up to the players. They can play that or not.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if if you want to play, if you're

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Speaker 2: Rory and you just want to play all the old,

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Speaker 2: same tournaments you've always enjoyed, then those will be available

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Speaker 2: to you. But there's gonna be this whole other tour

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Speaker 2: within a tour that you know, all of his buddies

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Speaker 2: are going to play, and so yeah, there's you know,

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Speaker 2: ry Rory's and if if you had to make a

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Speaker 2: list of winners and losers, you know Rory's probably at

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Speaker 2: the top of the loser's list, and that he's staked

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Speaker 2: his whole legacy on this battle and and they just

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Speaker 2: kind of pulled the rug out from under him. So

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Speaker 2: how he handles this will be interesting. You know, the

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Speaker 2: Tiger Woods of the world, the Brandal Chamblise. You know

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Speaker 2: a lot of people have been so outspoken against Live

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Speaker 2: and now they are part of They are part of

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Speaker 2: the PGA Tour, So everyone's going to have to make

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Speaker 2: peace with that. Nat.

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Speaker 4: Can I try quick one for you here, because you've

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Speaker 4: been on both sides here so much. You've had this

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Speaker 4: emotional distaste for the Saudi's and what they represent in

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Speaker 4: terms of criminal activity, and yet the PGA Tour. You've

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Speaker 4: been emotional about the PGA Tour as being this pureocratic

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Speaker 4: monster with no heart.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I said along. I just didn't think there

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Speaker 1: was a good guy in the room. There was no

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Speaker 1: one really to root for. I had lost, borderline almost

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Speaker 1: all interest in professional golf from a week to week basis.

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Speaker 1: I said, majors were more major. I felt like world ranking, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, world rankings needed to be addressed so that

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Speaker 1: you know, so that people who played golf globally in

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Speaker 1: the world could be accounted for. It made no sense

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Speaker 1: to me. I talked to enough players who went to

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Speaker 1: live Graham McDowell, Dustin Johnson, Pat Perez, Brooks, Koepka, Paul Casey,

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Speaker 1: you know, Lee Westwood, on and on, and certainly understood

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Speaker 1: how and why they would do what they did and

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Speaker 1: how they did it. And I can see players like

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Speaker 1: Rory uh and people like Tiger represented by Steinberg, who

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Speaker 1: you know, corralled that that you know, collection of talent

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Speaker 1: to protect the tour and protect legacy in history. You know,

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Speaker 1: I saw both sides. But you know, for me, I

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Speaker 1: I shifted my focus to things like, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: working on the club pro crisis, you know, followed up

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Speaker 1: with a crisis on Superintendent's you know, things like municipal

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Speaker 1: renovations and restorations the game of golf. To me, this

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Speaker 1: is not about the game of golf. This is not

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Speaker 1: about the golf that we play day in and day out,

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Speaker 1: the game that we love that that you know plucks

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Speaker 1: this the the you know, plucks our soul and and

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Speaker 1: brings us to places like Bandon Dunes or the old

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Speaker 1: course at Saint Andrew's. This is you know, quote new

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Speaker 1: York Times New collectively owned for profit entity. This is

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Speaker 1: about business. This is about money. This is about something

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Speaker 1: that probably should have happened thirty years ago when Norman

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Speaker 1: was essentially, you know, made Darth Vader of the game

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Speaker 1: of golf versus Fincham in his attempt to grow the

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Speaker 1: game globally. This is about the tour, not sitting down

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Speaker 1: from the word go and listening to what was being

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Speaker 1: offered and the opportunities that they had in front of them.

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Speaker 1: We could have avoided a lot of this, you know,

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Speaker 1: bitchery and bullshitty and I.

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Speaker 2: Think of all the think of all the fun we

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Speaker 2: would have missed out on. Matt.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, look, there's you know, but I mean, honestly,

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Speaker 1: you know, it took. I think it took somebody like

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Speaker 1: a Jimmy Dunn, who you know you talk about blinking.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Jimmy Dunn. This is a guy who you

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Speaker 1: needed adults in this room, and I'm not sure there

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Speaker 1: were a lot of them when there was all the

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Speaker 1: mud slinging and name calling and bitchiness that was happening

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Speaker 1: for the last you know, better part of whatever eighteen months.

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Speaker 1: And I think of you know, I just think get

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Speaker 1: on with it sorted out. I think it's better, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a sense that there's going to be a ton

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Speaker 1: of money. There was a ton of money being thrown

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Speaker 1: around in the game of golf. There's gonna be more.

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Speaker 1: And there's just no way in my mind that Jay

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Speaker 1: Monahan is not in charge of this. I know what

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Speaker 1: you're saying, Alan, it's a big win for Live and

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Speaker 1: I know there is a role for us here, but

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Speaker 1: there's no way that jaymon An's not in charge of this.

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Speaker 2: Well, the Tour will have a majority of you know,

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Speaker 2: the note that Monahan sent to the players said the

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Speaker 2: Tour would have a majority of votes on the board

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Speaker 2: and that the board, this new board of this new entity,

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Speaker 2: is going to have to ratify everything. So for sure,

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Speaker 2: Monahan and Ed Hurley's and the Jimmy Dunns who are

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Speaker 2: going to be part of this board, they will help

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Speaker 2: protect the interests of their players and as they figure

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Speaker 2: out where to slot the tournaments, how the fields get organized,

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Speaker 2: the Tour still has a say for sure, and they

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Speaker 2: will be the administrative voice without a doubt, and the

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Speaker 2: saut he has already gotten what they want, you know,

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Speaker 2: They've gotten a seat at the table. This whole exercise

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Speaker 2: was about being invited into the Western world and becoming

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Speaker 2: legitimized and creating something that they can they can have

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Speaker 2: a say in, a voice in they can bring home

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Speaker 2: to Jetta as this big event, you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: the super Bowl of the sport. And so they've already

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Speaker 2: gotten that. So I'm sure they'll They're not going to

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Speaker 2: put up a stink about whether the Kevin Struewans the

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Speaker 2: world get access to these live events occasionally or the

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Speaker 2: nitty gritty Jamon handbill control. There's no doubt. But the

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Speaker 2: big picture, you know, I mean put it this way,

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Speaker 2: like Ricky Fowler turned down seventy five million dollar offer

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Speaker 2: from Live Golf, and there was a many you know,

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Speaker 2: there was tons of big offers on the table to

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Speaker 2: the guys who stayed loyal to the tour. And now

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Speaker 2: not only did say, you know, Books got one hundred

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Speaker 2: and thirty million, Dustin got one fifty, Bryson got one

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Speaker 2: thirty five up front, they own these franchises, the values

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Speaker 2: of which just skyrocketed because now they're going to be

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Speaker 2: on network TV, these live events are going to become

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Speaker 2: a big deal. They still own the franchises like that

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Speaker 2: that live business model is intact.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: I was talking to someone who's has a leadership role

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Speaker 2: in one of these franchises and he was over the

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Speaker 2: moon this morning. He's like, you know, I made I

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Speaker 2: made hundred million dollars while I was sleep been last night.

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Speaker 2: Because these this this this live product, it's gonna endure,

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Speaker 2: it's gonna grow, it's gonna expand, and now there there

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Speaker 2: is a chance for for the tour players to uh

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Speaker 2: still get paid because these lift teams are gonna start recruiting.

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Speaker 2: Like now everyone's gonna want Xander Softly and a Patrick

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Speaker 2: can't lay and uh, you know there's gonna be this

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Speaker 2: build out of these of these teams.

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Speaker 1: How's John Rom gonna do?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, John Rom's gonna do well. But you know that

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Speaker 2: that that gold rush is over. You know they're they're

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Speaker 2: not going to own a piece of the franchise that

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Speaker 2: I mean, they'll get it, they'll get a little stake

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Speaker 2: in it. But so you know, the guys who were

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Speaker 2: loyal to the tour, who who did who carried the

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Speaker 2: tours water the last year, it's a it's a tough

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Speaker 2: pill for them to swallow today because they've they've lost

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Speaker 2: out twice on the money, the upfront money and the

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Speaker 2: equity of these franchises. But on the other hand, they're gonna, uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, they're gonna be playing for twenty million dollars

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Speaker 2: at least in these elevated events. I'm sure the live

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Speaker 2: persons are going to go up. So it's not like

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Speaker 2: any of the top players are going to be hurting.

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Speaker 2: But you know, this is a whole thing in golf

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Speaker 2: you had to pick aside and the guys who chose

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Speaker 2: live today is a glorious day for them, and for

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Speaker 2: the PGA Tour guys, it's it's a tough one. I

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Speaker 2: think that's the bottom line.

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Speaker 4: On how would that play out? If you're a Hideki

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Speaker 4: or John Ram, you're absolute start of the game. The

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Speaker 4: live bottle is based on here's our series, and you

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Speaker 4: got to play in all of them. If you're Dustin Johnson,

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Speaker 4: you're going to play in all of them. Now at

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Speaker 4: these elevated events, you've got agree to play in all

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Speaker 4: of them. How would that play out in twenty four

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Speaker 4: beyond twenty four? If you're Adecie, can you play to

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Speaker 4: some of the live events and not all the live events?

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Speaker 4: How do you see that playing out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, these are all the details that have yet to

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Speaker 2: be figured out, but I think I mean, to me,

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Speaker 2: the best way to do it would be at the

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Speaker 2: at these combined events, you have six live teams and then

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Speaker 2: you have six tour teams and you get like six

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Speaker 2: or seven or eight Ryder Cups a year where you know,

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Speaker 2: you keep the the roster's somewhat intact on these live squads.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think there's going to be fourteen co

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Speaker 2: sanctioned events. You know, there's still maybe a handful that

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Speaker 2: are just the live product where they when they go

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Speaker 2: over to Singapore or they go over to Australia, and

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Speaker 2: maybe that's how they reward the loyalty of the guys

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Speaker 2: who signed up early. They still have a place on

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Speaker 2: their tour. But if you have these mega events where

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Speaker 2: then you bring in these tour teams and they can

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Speaker 2: align however they want, that's one way to do it.

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Speaker 2: Or you could just fully integrate the rosters and the

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Speaker 2: tour guys will play and however many live events they're

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Speaker 2: compelled to, whether it's six or eight or ten. But

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Speaker 2: that's going to be a fundamental question they're going to

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Speaker 2: have to answer is how do we let the players

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Speaker 2: flow back and forth? You know, as part of the

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Speaker 2: release this morning that was sent to the players, the

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Speaker 2: tour players, I did say that all the guys who

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Speaker 2: renounce the PGA Tour can now reapply for membership. And

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Speaker 2: there was a funny line in there that Mona had said,

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Speaker 2: you know, this will be a complicated process. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: kidding Jay, But so you know, I think you'll get

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Speaker 2: to see Phil play at Pebble Beach again, and you'll

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Speaker 2: you'll get to see you know, some of these guys

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Speaker 2: can come back to their favorite events and what the

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Speaker 2: what's the minimum they're going to have to play to

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Speaker 2: retain their membership. There's it's really complex how you put

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Speaker 2: it all together, but you know that's what all these

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Speaker 2: There's gonna be a lot of more secret meetings in

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Speaker 2: the in the months ahead, but they will, they will

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Speaker 2: sort it out. I think that, you know, there's gonna

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Speaker 2: be a mandate from Monahan to try and try and

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Speaker 2: get as many players as they can into these these

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Speaker 2: live events. But it's it's by design a small limited series,

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Speaker 2: so there's gonna be a lot of tension there. You know,

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Speaker 2: the the Journeymen have already been left out of the

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Speaker 2: PGA Tours elevated events, and now they're going to get

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Speaker 2: left out of the live events, and so you know,

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Speaker 2: the class warfare and professional golf is going to accelerate.

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Speaker 1: I think, Michael, I know you're so used to you know,

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Speaker 1: your your instinct is just to ask questions. But what

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Speaker 1: do you think, Well.

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Speaker 4: I think this is a really really big play by

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Speaker 4: the sout He's going to the very very top MBS.

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Speaker 4: I think the PGA Tour tried to get into the

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Speaker 4: real estate business going back to Dean Beamon days, and

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Speaker 4: wasn't very good at it, probably wasn't funded properly, probably

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Speaker 4: didn't have the right creative impulse behind it. But I

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Speaker 4: think that I think going right to the top, MBS

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Speaker 4: is looking for a way to become culturally significant in

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Speaker 4: mainstream American life. Not just have a seat on the

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Speaker 4: board of any American company he wants to have, or

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Speaker 4: at least, you know, be in the room if not

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Speaker 4: he personally, but here or somebody else, but just become

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Speaker 4: part of mainstream corporate life, which is kind of hard

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Speaker 4: to do when you've had the attitudes you've had towards women,

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Speaker 4: towards gays, gay people, transgender people. And it's rough for

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Speaker 4: me on a personal basis because golf has always had

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Speaker 4: a certain separateness to it, anotherness to it, and now

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Speaker 4: it just kind of looks like everything else, you know,

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Speaker 4: chasing the dollar, chasing the dollar, and so it's kind

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Speaker 4: of rough to look at it that way. But you know,

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Speaker 4: anybody who's made a study of the Godfather knows that

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Speaker 4: you know, this is always how play. It is all

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Speaker 4: business in the end and not personal. But I would

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Speaker 4: say this AUDI is getting really into golf developments. Golf

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Speaker 4: is part of a wellness life. People wanting people counting

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Speaker 4: their steps and playing walking courses where you can count

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Speaker 4: your steps and actually have fun at the same time.

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Speaker 4: So I think they're going to I think this is

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Speaker 4: a big, big, huge international golf Minor golf's a niche sport.

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Speaker 4: But it's like, you know, why does FedEx make such

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Speaker 4: a big bet on golf? It's you know, where's the

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Speaker 4: NFL is the NFL and hundreds of millions of people

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Speaker 4: watch the Super Bowl. You never get never will get

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Speaker 4: a number like that for an LA Open, Genesis Open,

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Speaker 4: and Genesis Invitational. But you're getting the people that you

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Speaker 4: want to get. I think the Saudis figured out a

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Speaker 4: way that they can get to the people they want

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Speaker 4: to get to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's a key point is that, And

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Speaker 2: I get into all this stuff in the book in

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Speaker 2: great detail. I mean MBS has staked his entire reign

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Speaker 2: on this vision twenty thirty, which is remaking the Saudi

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Speaker 2: economy and society to modernize it, to westernize it. And

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Speaker 2: part of that is bringing in Western investment. You know,

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Speaker 2: people always go to Saudi Arabia and they take the money.

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Speaker 2: They want to bring businesses to Saudi Arabia. Like that's

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Speaker 2: become a change, is that if you want to do

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Speaker 2: business in Saudi Arabia, you have to have a headquarters there.

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Speaker 2: Your people have to live there, because they'd always live

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Speaker 2: in Dubai or they live in somewhere else, and then

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Speaker 2: they fly in and do their business. They leave because

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Speaker 2: it wasn't that much fun to be in Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 2: if you if you're a Western, right, and so part

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Speaker 2: of the impetus to all this is to make it

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Speaker 2: more attractive. That's why they're building these new cities, That's

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Speaker 2: why they want these big sporting events. It's like something

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Speaker 2: to do. So, if you can get a couple PGA

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Speaker 2: tour slash live events over in Saudi Arabia, that's a

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Speaker 2: wonderful distraction for your people. And then you host the

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Speaker 2: business community, you leverage all their relationships. So there's, as

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Speaker 2: Michael suggests, there's some really powerful forces at play here.

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Speaker 2: And it's never been really about live golf and making

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Speaker 2: money or breaking even. It was a way to remake

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Speaker 2: the economy. Like Saudi Arabia has fifteen hundred miles of

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Speaker 2: coast land and these incredible mountain ranges. You can put

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Speaker 2: some of the best golf you know, destinations anywhere if

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Speaker 2: you do it right. And so if they can open

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Speaker 2: up a whole tourist sector through golf instead of you know,

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Speaker 2: people from London fly to Dubai to play golf at

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Speaker 2: the winter because it's sunny. But I mean d you

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Speaker 2: buyas this flat, crowded city, there's there's no good golf

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Speaker 2: terrain there. If they can get everyone to go to

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Speaker 2: to Saudi Arabia instead and stay at the resorts, and

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Speaker 2: that's that's that was always worth it to lose a

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Speaker 2: billion dollars on live if if they if they could

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Speaker 2: turn Saudi Arabia into this golfing destination. So there's there's

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Speaker 2: been this larger play here. It wasn't just about these

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Speaker 2: little golf tournaments with music in the background, and so

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Speaker 2: this just accelerates it. Now there now, now the PIFF

381
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Speaker 2: has access to all of the PG Tour sponsors, to

382
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Speaker 2: all of the relationships. I mean, this is a monumental

383
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Speaker 2: victory for them as they're trying to reshape their economy

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Speaker 2: and they're trying to become ingrained in these these these

385
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Speaker 2: new sectors. So yeah, you have to have kind of

386
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Speaker 2: a big picture of perspective on what's really happening here.

387
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Speaker 2: Part of Jay's problem, you know, his messaging throughout this

388
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Speaker 2: has been very muddled. You know, it started out with

389
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Speaker 2: it's it's legacy, not leverage. You know, he was trying

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Speaker 2: to appeal to the better angels of his golfers and say,

391
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Speaker 2: forget the money, it's it's just all about the PG

392
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Speaker 2: Tours are place and we'd give to charity and of

393
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Speaker 2: course you want to be part of us. That didn't

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Speaker 2: really work. All the guys went to live. So then

395
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Speaker 2: he's his new message was, you know, you've never had

396
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Speaker 2: to apologize for being a PGA to our member. You know,

397
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Speaker 2: he kind of went into this business of demonizing the

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Speaker 2: Saudi's that didn't really work. I just kept going to live.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he finally he realized, Okay, the only way

400
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Speaker 2: is to to he said, we're not it's arms race.

401
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Speaker 2: We can't win it. But he tried to try to

402
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Speaker 2: get into the arms race where he just became about money.

403
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Speaker 2: We're you gonna try and match the dollars and through

404
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 2: these elevated events and the PIP and all these things.

405
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Speaker 2: But then I think he realized that's not going to

406
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: work because they just have more money than we do.

407
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Speaker 2: So there was an air of defeat I thought from Monahan,

408
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Speaker 2: and he was trying to play nice. Uh but you

409
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,479
Speaker 2: know his his new boss is sitting right next to him.

410
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Speaker 2: You know, there's there's the chairman of this new entity,

411
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Speaker 2: Yacht's year, his excellency, who's you know. Jay would never

412
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Speaker 2: take the phone call from, never never take the meeting from,

413
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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden everything's flipped on him. So

414
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Speaker 2: it's that was that was my my read. There's some

415
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 2: funny backstory to that, is that nobody knew this was coming.

416
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Speaker 2: I mean, I've been talking to highest level people at

417
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Speaker 2: Live for weeks, there was no hint this was coming.

418
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Speaker 2: And right before Yah Sir went on on that uh interview,

419
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Speaker 2: he called Brooks, he called Dustin and he said, hey, guys,

420
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Speaker 2: this has happening. Like there was there's no there still

421
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 2: hasn't been any internal communication with the Live folks, at

422
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Speaker 2: least as of half an hour ago when we started

423
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Speaker 2: taping this podcast, Like I was, I called one of

424
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Speaker 2: their top executives and they were saying they were watching

425
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Speaker 2: that that that that interview with Jay and yes seriously

426
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Speaker 2: next to other and this person said, did I take

427
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Speaker 2: an edible this morning? Like what is happening? Like this

428
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Speaker 2: is just impossible and so uh this this was done

429
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Speaker 2: at the highest levels cloak and dagger diplomacy. It's amazing

430
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Speaker 2: they managed to pull it off. I mean, I think

431
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 2: there was probably four people knew what was happening. Yea year,

432
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 2: jaymon An, Jimmy Dunn and Ed Hurley.

433
00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: And that's it.

434
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 2: I was texting with Peter Malnaughty, who's a member of

435
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 2: the board of directors of the PGA Tour, and he

436
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: I said, can we talk. He's like, I'm too stunned

437
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: to even articulate any thoughts right now. It's just like

438
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: even people in the inner sanctum of the PGA tour

439
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 2: were caught off guard by this. So it's it's a

440
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 2: it's a wild development. I mean, Monahan's going to host

441
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 2: a a meeting, the player meeting this afternoon. It's Tuesday

442
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 2: here and at the Canadian Open. That's going to be

443
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 2: wild and rowdy and things will start leaking out after that.

444
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 2: But can't emphasize enough that this this was a highly

445
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 2: secretive endeavor and it was it was basically done between

446
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 2: Monahan and yes Year, And you know Greg Norman didn't

447
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 2: know this was happening, even when right before that CNBC spot,

448
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: yes Year are called called Greg to tell him. So

449
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 2: it's it's in the annals of of big time, you

450
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 2: know sports thunderbolts like this is near the top, Like

451
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 2: this came out of nowhere for even the players involved

452
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: and the key people on the ground.

453
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 4: Well, that just you've had such a good feel for

454
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 4: club pros, the public game. You grew up playing public courses.

455
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 4: You play a public course in San Diego. How do

456
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 4: you think this is going to play out? Which is

457
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 4: ordinary everyday golfers.

458
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: Oh, I just think I think people don't give is

459
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: don't give, you know, I just I don't think. I

460
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 1: think a lot of the people I hang around with

461
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 1: feel the same way that I do, which is it's

462
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 1: all just a bunch of petty bitchiness amongst like really

463
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: wealthy people who are getting wealthier. And I think there

464
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: was a general sense of disconnect from day to day,

465
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: shot to shot, you know, tournament to tournament, trophy to trophy,

466
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: check to check, you know, I just I don't think

467
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: the game was was looking very good by having you know,

468
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: a right and a wrong and who was right and

469
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: who was wrong could be debated over and over, and

470
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: it was playing out social media, was playing out around

471
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: you know, fire pits or on first tees or you know,

472
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: twelve greens. It just was happening, and I think people

473
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: are just tired of it. It seemed very obvious to

474
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: me neither model, you know, neither model was sustainable. We know,

475
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: we've heard from tournament directors about the tour actually kicking

476
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: in the extra money to make elevated events elevated, So

477
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: where was that money going to come from? Down the road.

478
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: We've heard from tournament directors and sponsors that they were

479
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: you know, the the return on an investment wasn't going

480
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: to match, you know, the sort of the numbers. It

481
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: was a numbers game was not coming out the right way.

482
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: Tiger's gone, you know, the game Phil is essentially gone,

483
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: you know, to a certain degree or close to it

484
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: at the age of you know, fifty two, fifty three

485
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: years going on fifty three years old. So I mean

486
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: something had to give here, and we were going to

487
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: come to some court cases in which a lot of ugly,

488
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, details and information were going to come out

489
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: that a lot of people probably didn't want to have,

490
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: a lot of important people were being deposed. And the

491
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: fact is Jay didn't take the meeting and he represents

492
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: the players, and that's that from the very get go,

493
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: was a big, big problem. So I mean, you know,

494
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: one plus one equals two, and this is a numbers game.

495
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: And I'm just I think what people are mostly shocked

496
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: about is that it happened as fast as it did

497
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 1: the way it did. Right now in the middle, we're

498
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: into the season, we got two majors to go in,

499
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 1: a Ryder Cup coming, and it just it just happened.

500
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is I mean, the Ryder Cup becomes

501
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 2: very interesting, like especially on the European side, because they

502
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: had through these fins, they had forced out this whole

503
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: generation of potential captains and players. All of a sudden,

504
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 2: does you know, Sergeio he's not playing great, but if

505
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,719
Speaker 2: he gets hot here this summer, do they after all

506
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 2: the all the bitterness and hard feelings. You know, John

507
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: Ron wants him. They went three and zero at the

508
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 2: last Ryder Cup as a team. You know that poor

509
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 2: Luke Donald's gonna have to sort out that stuff. What's

510
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 2: gonna are they going to give Heiner extension? Is captain

511
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 2: c back in two years but they took away?

512
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 4: I mean there's.

513
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: Well this is probably not appropriate thing to say, but

514
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 2: they're gonna be like a truth and reconciliation process, you know,

515
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: like some of these countries after they go through civil

516
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 2: wars where they have there's a tribunal that has to

517
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: sort out all these complex issues because there's a lot

518
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 2: of stuff happened that that's it's been bruising and you

519
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 2: know Pelly had to take a hard line. He was

520
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 2: trying to trying to save his tour in a tough situation.

521
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 2: But now after you look at how how much the

522
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 2: European tour is withered without any of their stars. It's like,

523
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: does he need you know, Paul Casey and Ian Poulter

524
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: at Lee Westward when they when they're playing in England? Obviously?

525
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: Does he? Does he need Martin Kaimer for the German Open?

526
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: Of course? Does does he need Sergeio with the Spanish Open?

527
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 4: Yes?

528
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: Like so, uh, they're gonna what happens.

529
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: To Keith Pelly, what happens to the DP World Tour?

530
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: Like everything just bumps bumps down?

531
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 4: Is this?

532
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: This is There's going to be so much ripple effect

533
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: and fallout from this, and it's going to keep going

534
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: and going.

535
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 2: I think this actually helps European Tour because it was

536
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 2: it was it was slowly dying right late. They they'd

537
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: already committed to sending their ten best players every year

538
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: to the PGA Tours. As part of this new alliance,

539
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: I mean, they'd just become a feeder tour for for

540
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 2: the for the PGA Tour. And I think that now

541
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: they can they can get they can get some of

542
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 2: their old stars back. I think they can they can

543
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 2: leverage a couple of these live events as part of

544
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: their own schedule. I think it'll probably help them, because

545
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: you know it was if you looked at who at

546
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: their fields this year, there's been nobody of consequence playing

547
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: in their tournaments, and I think this gives them a

548
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: way back. pH Nominally, I don't think they're going to

549
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 2: be a huge player in this, but they'd already kind

550
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: of hitched their wagon to the PGA Tour just to

551
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: survive during this turbulent period, and now the tours is

552
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,719
Speaker 2: going to continue to look after their interests with more

553
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: Saudi money with these new tournaments, and I think it's

554
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 2: a small win for for Europe, but we'll see how

555
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: it plays out.

556
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 4: Now this is not really at all the most important thing,

557
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 4: but I am interested. The PGA Tour persons have increased

558
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 4: greatly because there was competition. Now there is no competition.

559
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 4: The competitors have combined. So what where would the leverage

560
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 4: come from to increase purses in the future, Like there's

561
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 4: nowhere else to go now there's just this one outfit.

562
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not leverage as partnership. So that's going

563
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: to be part of the deal, Like the PIFF is

564
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 2: buying into this new entity, and that's going to be

565
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: part of the promise. Like Okay, We've given you what

566
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: you craved. You're now part of the golf ecosystem. In return,

567
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: you need to commit to bumping up our purses ten

568
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 2: percent every year for the next you know, decade or

569
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: whatever it is. Like it is just going to be

570
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 2: written into this new alliance. And so they don't need competition.

571
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 2: They now have. They now have the public Investment Fund,

572
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: which is gonna be worth a trillion dollars by twenty

573
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: twenty five, floating the whole thing. So, I mean, there's

574
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: the last chapter of my book. I was kind of

575
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: forecasting what was going to happen, and there's a great

576
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 2: line from Pat Perez. He said to me, you know

577
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 2: that the PGA tours fucked because their whole model is

578
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: about squeezing more and more money out of these corporations

579
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: that are getting tired of being squeezed. He said, yeah,

580
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: our money comes out of the ground.

581
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 4: And and so, uh, if the piff Numbers people say,

582
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 4: you know what, we're putting all this money in the game,

583
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 4: We're not making anybody back. We're doling out too much

584
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 4: money in person money and prize prize money. We're just

585
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 4: cutting it all in half. What's to stop them from

586
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 4: doing that. Where where could the guys go.

587
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, they're not going to do that because

588
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 2: Yair runs the PIFF. He's the top guy at the

589
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: public investment fund. He's also the chairman of a Ramco,

590
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: which is the world's most profitable company, so he controls

591
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: the purse strings and he's all in on this like

592
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 2: this is his been his baby from the beginning and

593
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: now he's the chairman of this of this new entity.

594
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: He's on the board of directors like he's the guy

595
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: unless there's some major shakeup, you know, uh from his patron,

596
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: the Crown Prince Mohammad ben Salmon, Like you know, they're

597
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: committed there. They're going to be committed in writing to

598
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: these things. So and that was always a talking point

599
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 2: from tour loyalists is oh, the PIFF could just lose

600
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: interest and the whole thing could go away. But that's live.

601
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: Live Golf has been hiring fifteen people a month, like

602
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: they've been ramping up this whole time. There's the there

603
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: was this move to become a little more fiscally responsible

604
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: and to keep track of the money. But they've never wavered.

605
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: You know, the PIFF has never wavered in its commitment

606
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 2: and so they're not going anywhere and they have the

607
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: purse strings. And you know, now, now it becomes an

608
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: easier sell for jam on hand because he was trying

609
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: to sell a diminished product. Like you know, I come

610
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: back to Pebble Beats. You know, we'd get three stars

611
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: every year, Phil, Dustin and Jordan Speith and and Pebble

612
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: Beats lost two out of those three. Now how happy

613
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: was at and t you know, not very but now

614
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 2: you can you can sell the game. It's like we're

615
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: getting Cam Smith back, We're getting Dustin, We're getting Brooks,

616
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: who's the dominant player in the sport. We're getting all

617
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: these guys back. And I think that'll make you know,

618
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: the approach to corporate America a little bit easier. And again,

619
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 2: the tour was not going to be able to keep

620
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: getting twenty twenty five million dollars from corporations every year

621
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 2: to fund these elevated events. It just wasn't going to happen.

622
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: Now they can go back to it, say hey, give

623
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 2: us ten or fifteen like you used to do. The

624
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 2: PIF will fill on the rest. You get the energy

625
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 2: of the elevated event and all the activations and so

626
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 2: it becomes easier to sell the corporate America, not harder.

627
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, the corporation becomes Saudi Arabia, so the piff becomes

628
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: the the piff as it was. Actually what you're saying.

629
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: They bridge the gap, they connect the dots and everyone

630
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: plays in the same sandbox. Literally.

631
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like there was this news break about AT

632
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: and T pulled out of the Byron Nelson. That was

633
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: a big deal. And then Raytheon Corporation was going to

634
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: come in as the sponsor and Monahan nicks the deal

635
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: because Wraitheon sells missiles to Saudi Arabia, which is approved

636
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: by the State Department. It was a weird bit of

637
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 2: you know, very true signaling by the commissioner. Well, now

638
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: all these companies that have always wanted to do business

639
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: in Saudi Arabia, but maybe they were they were squeamish,

640
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: Like now they want they're going to start sponsoring tour

641
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: events because that's how they can they can bridge that

642
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: gap like they want to. They want to get into

643
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: the Saudi markets. Sponsor, sponsor one of these events, take

644
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 2: all your people over there, meet everyone. The amount of

645
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: business is going to get done in these corporate chalets

646
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: is monumental and uh so it's ironic because the tour

647
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 2: had made Saudi money so toxic. But that's what's gonna

648
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 2: that's the whole calculus just changed.

649
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: But but but again, the underlying hypocrisy to all of that,

650
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: anyway was what kept getting thrown into you know, Brandle

651
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: and Aiman's face on a regular basis, which is, all

652
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: of these corporations have been doing big business with Saudi Arabia,

653
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: including the United States of America for years now. So

654
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: what what like that? That was just the underlining underlying

655
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: hypocrisy to all of it. To me, that just okay,

656
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: what about ism, No, it's just hypocrisy, That's what it is.

657
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: That's the facts.

658
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this this is this has been a clarifying moment.

659
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: And you know it, as Michael said earlier, in the end,

660
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 2: money always wins. The money remains undefeated.

661
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: It's business.

662
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 2: Uh it's it can be it can be disheartening that that,

663
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: but that's just the world we live in. And you know,

664
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 2: Monahan finally realized that and so that that's that's that's

665
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 2: one of the headlines from today is like money remains

666
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: undefeated again.

667
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: I I again, and Michael like I think this is

668
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: where you got you and I always sort of you know,

669
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: parted ways was on the on this sort of topic,

670
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: which was the PGA Tour, and the professional game just

671
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: simply isn't as pure and beautiful and what we know

672
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: to be the game that has given us all of

673
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: these incredible moments, memories, camaraderie and friendship and travel and culture.

674
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: And you know, you know it's too they are now

675
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: talk about bifurcating the game. This is the ultimate bifurcation

676
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: to me, in that it's very clear that the professional

677
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 1: game is now the professional game, and it is money

678
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: because it has been and needed to be more and

679
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: there was a disruption that undermined the model. But in

680
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: the meantime, like we still have the game. We still

681
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: have the game that we know and love. We still

682
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: have opportunities to take the buddy's trips and do what

683
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: we do and play municipal golf, and you know, you know,

684
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. In my mind, it's like

685
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: I'm just glad it's over with, get on with it,

686
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: do your money thing, and I'll watch when I want

687
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: to watch, or don't watch when i want to watch,

688
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: and I'll always have that choice. But the game is

689
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: my game. The game we love my game, which is

690
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: you know, the one that I try to play and

691
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: perfect and get better at, is still here.

692
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 4: It's well said. And you know, to combine two thoughts

693
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 4: from both of you, Alan, when you mentioned the raytheon

694
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 4: thing that was only what maybe two weeks ago? Is

695
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 4: that on that shows you know, that shows you that

696
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 4: this was not And I don't think Jay would have

697
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 4: done what he did then had he known this was coming.

698
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 4: And then to Male's point, there was a lot of

699
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 4: nasty stuff that was going to come out of the

700
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 4: of this legal process. Uh and that may have of

701
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 4: course tipped the PG two it realizing that we don't

702
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 4: have the cards here Jay already said from day one,

703
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 4: don't have the money. All right, Then if you don't

704
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 4: have the money, do you have the court system? Maybe

705
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 4: maybe not? Uh So, then you've got to do you

706
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 4: know the calculus of modern life, the legal system, money,

707
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 4: public opinion. And then you know, if if the if

708
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 4: the cost for that is talking back. What does that

709
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 4: phrase people say they take? They take, you know, they

710
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 4: walk back, walk apart, they walk back something. Well, there

711
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 4: they're going to be walking back for the rest of

712
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 4: their lives, but they don't have a choice.

713
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: Well, so, yeah, I mean there's there's a few things

714
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 2: going on here that there was There was the anti

715
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 2: trust lawsuit and the tour countersuit against Live and that

716
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: was headed to the Supreme Court. Like you know, they

717
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 2: were fighting about whether whether ya here could be deposed

718
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 2: and there was some thinking that you know, Live kept

719
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 2: losing all these all these battles that that at some

720
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: point they were just going to pull the plug on

721
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 2: the whole lawsuit because they they don't want to open

722
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 2: the books the public Investment Fund and get into the

723
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: have that come to light a day. So that was

724
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: a big thing. But then the Department of Justice separately

725
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 2: was doing its own anti trust investigation and that last

726
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 2: summer that was that was going gangbusters. And then the

727
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: lawsuits began and the Department of Justice kind of stepped

728
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: back said, Okay, we'll let the courts decide this. But

729
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: as as all these procedural matters kept playing out, and

730
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: the date of the lawsuit got bumped from you know,

731
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, you know it was gonna be in

732
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: September of twenty three, that it was going to be

733
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 2: in January twenty four. Then it was of May twenty four,

734
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 2: it became clear these lawsuits were years and years away.

735
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 2: The Department of Justice re engaged and they they they

736
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: were doing a lot of interviews with players, agents, officials,

737
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 2: and like Carlos Muno is one of the live players.

738
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 2: He told me like they took his phone and I'm sorry,

739
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 2: Carlos Otz, excuse me. At Carlo Sotiz, they took his

740
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: phone and they asked the passwords and they say before

741
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: before they they say, don't delete anything. We find it anyway,

742
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 2: and then he just looked guilty, and he's like they

743
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 2: take it for five or six hours, and they extract

744
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: everything you've ever thought or said or written, and they

745
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 2: know your whole life. And that's obviously uncomfortable. If you're

746
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: if you're Phil Nicholson, if you're if you're a J. Monahan,

747
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 2: Which phone did they take a filled?

748
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: How many?

749
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, you got turned over all six of them

750
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 2: and so so yeah, nobody wanted these things to play out.

751
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 2: They were all going to lose. And meanwhile, the you know,

752
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,720
Speaker 2: the partners at these law firms bill in two thousand

753
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 2: dollars an hours, like the legal fees were going to

754
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: run into the tens of millions of dollars if they

755
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: haven't already. So making all that stuff go away was

756
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: in the best interest of both sides. You can't underrate

757
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 2: how important that was because that was this giant stink

758
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 2: cloud and it was like the storm on the horizon.

759
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 2: But it was getting closer. Now the Department of Justice

760
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 2: was re engaging. Those are not people you want to

761
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 2: mess with. So to your point, Michael about why now,

762
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 2: I think I think the Department of Justice getting more

763
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: aggressive and more active. That's part of it. I think

764
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 2: having a losing Honda and losing AT and T as

765
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 2: sponsors and some of these other corporations pushing back with

766
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 2: Monahan and him realizing, you know what, this is not sustainable,

767
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 2: Like we've tapped our reserves to get through this this

768
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 2: wartime era of twenty twenty three. What are we going

769
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 2: to do in twenty four If we're losing sponsors and

770
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: we've made these commitments, where's the money going to come from.

771
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 2: I think Live Golf was realizing like, okay, we launched.

772
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 2: That was a monumental achievement, and they've gotten some traction.

773
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 2: You know, they had big crowds in Australia. They had

774
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 2: big crowds in Tulsa, they had really nice crowds in Singapore.

775
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: I think it was catching on as this kind of fun, different,

776
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 2: in person experiential event. But their ratings were so bad

777
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 2: on the CW that they stopped reporting them because it

778
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: was embarrassing, and they were just not able to scale

779
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 2: their audience whatsoever. And so how you know it was

780
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 2: it was seemed like a big deal to get a

781
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 2: t to get a TV contract on a decent network,

782
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 2: but it was it was failing miserably. So I think

783
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: it was just this confluence of events where both sides realized,

784
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 2: they looked around and said, we just can't keep going

785
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 2: like this. It just doesn't make sense. And once they

786
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 2: actually got in a room or at least got on

787
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 2: a zoom, clearly it happened very quickly. But you know,

788
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 2: there there's this letter that I reproduced in my book

789
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: that goes back to the spring of to April of

790
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one when the Saudis first approached Monahan and

791
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: to try and forge some kind of compromise. That was

792
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: that was their aim, although there was a sort of

793
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: built in threat about they were going to launch anyway

794
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 2: with or without you. But you know, Monahan never acknowledged it.

795
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 2: And you know, he went to his ensuing board meeting

796
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: and said, we're at war, you know, we're at war

797
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 2: with these guys, and and that was he he kind

798
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: of escalated it. And in the end he didn't have

799
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,919
Speaker 2: the artillery to keep it going. You know, it became

800
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 2: a war of attrition, and it was clear that that

801
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: the tour was not gonna be able to keep going.

802
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 2: And I think that as soon as they realized that,

803
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: as soon as they were honest with themselves, that the

804
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: need for a compromise accelerated.

805
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: I will say, I mean, Alan Schipnok. I'm just not

806
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: sure there's anybody who knows more about all of this

807
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: than you do. I mean, and the idea that you

808
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: hit send on this book that is all about the

809
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: fight for the soul of the game on Sunday and

810
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: this is Tuesday, is just mind bending to me. I mean,

811
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 1: winners and losers here, obvious winners, Saudi Arabia, obvious winners,

812
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: Greg Norman. He gets one over on Tim Finch. Finally,

813
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: after thirty years, he gets it up and over on

814
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 1: Fincham Phil Mickelson over Tiger Woods. Like John Ram, you know,

815
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: it comes out looking good in that he he he

816
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: didn't take the money, but he also sort of, you know,

817
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: played the role of like I'm you know, I'm just

818
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: I'm just focused on on my game and what i

819
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: want to do, and I picked this tour and I'm

820
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,919
Speaker 1: not bad mouthing or being bitchy to anybody. Rory gets

821
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: absolutely rode a tiled here, uh and again and again

822
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: for being for being a good, you know, loyal and

823
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 1: willing to be the face. I mean, if I'm Rory,

824
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: I am pissed, pissed, and sure.

825
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have I wouldn't agree on the Phil Tiger

826
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 4: part because Phil has shown that he's all about the

827
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 4: money and Tiger and this is this is why sports

828
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 4: fans respond to athletes for being athletes. Tiger has been,

829
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 4: he really has been all about I went eighty two

830
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 4: fucking PGA Tour events and you not taking that away

831
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 4: from me?

832
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: Well, no, you can never do that. You can never

833
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: compete there. But I you know, look, well Tiger Tiger,

834
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 1: and he's just in a whole different category. But certainly

835
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: Phil gets a win here, a big, big win. And

836
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: obviously we've learned a lot about Phil and we're going

837
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: to continue to do so. And there's another book coming

838
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: and everything is what it is, and I think everybody

839
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: now knows a lot more about the real Phil. And

840
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: I think that always bothered Tiger is that Tiger took

841
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: the heat for being who he was and Phil got

842
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: skated on sort of being who he was. But that

843
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: that's definitely out now. However, this is a win for

844
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: Phil Well.

845
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 4: I mean Alan wrote this, you know, half a year

846
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 4: or more ago.

847
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 2: Was Phil right? Yeah?

848
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 4: Phil was right? What Phil said. I when I'm ran

849
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 4: Allen's book hit the Phil book in Manuscript Forum and

850
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,479
Speaker 4: it had that stuff in there about you know, Phil

851
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 4: calling Alan and thought saying what he said and then

852
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 4: Alan using it didn't make that much impact on me

853
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 4: because I just thought, yeah, he is right. And so

854
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 4: to your point, Matt, he has been proven correct that

855
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 4: there was another way to look at this whole ecosystem,

856
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 4: whether you like it or don't like it. That's another thing,

857
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 4: you know, for those of us who are you know,

858
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 4: idealists about life and golf, the whole thing doesn't really

859
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 4: it doesn't set right. But if you think the fight

860
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 4: is bad for golf, then at least this means the

861
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 4: end of fighting. Well that's good. I mean, you know,

862
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 4: Japan was our sworn enemy what seventy years ago. Now

863
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 4: they're one of our best friends in the world, so

864
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 4: you know, things can change over time.

865
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: Well, the other thing is is I have to think

866
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: that the PGA Tour, watching Augusta National and the PGA

867
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: Championship and going that majors are way more major and

868
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: that's where the best are coming together and the players

869
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: Championship minimalized without the defending champion like you know, and

870
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: the RNA saying, you know, and the USO we will

871
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: remain opens because that's that's what they're going to do.

872
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: Everything again, everything led to this. It was gonna come

873
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,879
Speaker 1: to this, and Alan, you know, per what you were saying,

874
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: you had sort of reported and had foreshadow like it

875
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 1: was coming. I think the bigger shock is that it

876
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: just happened. That it happened right now?

877
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean why now? I mean the Masters and

878
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 2: the PGA Championship are part of that story. I mean

879
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 2: the Sunday at Augusta was the highest ratings they had

880
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: in years. People were tuned in, they're they're the majors

881
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: had become must see because it was the only time

882
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 2: you get all the top players, and for the PG

883
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 2: Tour not to have access to Brooks Koepka, who is

884
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 2: clearly the alpha of the entire sport, it just made

885
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: no sense. And you know him him winning wasn't that's

886
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 2: an important milestone. It's like, clearly these guys their games

887
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 2: were not going to degrade. As if people had feared

888
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 2: they they were, they were not. They had not stopped

889
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 2: trying because they they'd gotten some some guaranteed money like

890
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 2: the best players in every sport get, and so that

891
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 2: that's another brick in the wall. If uh, you know,

892
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,919
Speaker 2: Brooks kept me winning the PGA Championship is looking even

893
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 2: more impactful than it did a few weeks ago.

894
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 4: And so.

895
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: Phil finishing second at the finishing second. Yeah, I mean

896
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 2: the film factor here is really interesting. But getting back

897
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: to Tiger and Rory, like, how can how can how

898
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 2: can the game? How can this new entity make things

899
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: right to them? Well, you know, there's still a room

900
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 2: for a couple more franchises on liv Golf you could

901
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: get you could get two more groups out in a

902
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,439
Speaker 2: shotgun to make it work. So I think there's zero

903
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 2: doubt that both Tiger and Rory will be offered a franchise. Now,

904
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 2: whether they're gonna want it or not, they both have

905
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,800
Speaker 2: plenty of money in the bank. But it becomes it

906
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: becomes a very interesting subplot, and in some ways it's

907
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 2: it's the best thing that could have happened for them

908
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 2: because they could have never benefited from from live golf

909
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: the way they'd stake their whole legacies. Now they can say, hey,

910
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 2: this is the this is the PGA Tour event. I'm

911
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 2: just part of of the PGA Tour. I want to

912
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 2: support these new events. It's good for golf. There's a

913
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 2: little wiggle room that can bring them back, and they can.

914
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 2: They can cash in. And so I don't think the

915
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think we know yet. I

916
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 2: mean they're both businessmen, right like they and I think

917
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 2: so are they.

918
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, they're they're golfers, you know what I mean.

919
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 2: They just founded this hockey league, you know, the tech

920
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 2: in future?

921
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: What happens to them, what happens to the simulator League?

922
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, the TGL. I mean, well now they can now

923
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,720
Speaker 2: they can they can get Dustin, they can get Brooks,

924
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 2: they can get cam Smith, I mean it probably helps them.

925
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 2: You know the problem for the PGA Tour was that

926
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 2: they had they had good golfers, they didn't have any

927
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 2: real stars I Meanders, they had guys left there was

928
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 2: they had no edge. I mean Xander Softly a super

929
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 2: nice guy. Patrick Cantley nice player, but like they don't Colin,

930
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 2: you know, like will z al Torres. I mean, come on,

931
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 2: like Rom has a presence. Rom has elevated himself through

932
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 2: all of this with his play and with his diplomacy.

933
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 2: But you know Scotty Scheffler, like incredible golfer, but you know,

934
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 2: boring his heck like and he's probably even said heck

935
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: because it's too strong a word for him. Like, you know,

936
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 2: the tour badly needed an infusion of personality and pizzazz

937
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 2: and they just they just got it. I mean they

938
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 2: they just did. And if you look at this from

939
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 2: the perspective of a fan, I think this is this

940
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 2: is gonna be great for fans. Are getting all players back.

941
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: This this this weirdness of this period is going to dissipate.

942
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 2: They're going to get these these new events that could

943
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 2: be fun. Like I've been in in the very small

944
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 2: minority here I really like the team component on LIV.

945
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 2: I've been. I've enjoyed following it. I think at the

946
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: tournaments it looks cool, all the guys in their uniforms.

947
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 2: When you're out there, you can feel it's a palpable thing.

948
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 2: Like I've been. I've been in scoring tent plenty of

949
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 2: times now where everyone's looking for their teammate, which you shoot,

950
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 2: you know, what's your number. It's like when you're it's

951
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 2: like when you're playing at a you know a member guest,

952
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 2: and you're you're following the scores of your buddies. Like so,

953
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,439
Speaker 2: I think this team thing could could really help golf

954
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 2: because the last thing we need is more seventy two

955
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 2: hole stroke play. It's just it's so tedious, I I said.

956
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: I said a long time ago after the Zerk Classic,

957
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,879
Speaker 1: brilliant move pivoted team event right two man team. It's

958
00:51:56,040 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: differentiated itself, just like you know certain tournaments and courses

959
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: have always different you know, at and T has always

960
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,800
Speaker 1: been the celebrity prom it's the clam bake. Great, okay,

961
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: I said alone. Why wouldn't Why wouldn't all the lower

962
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 1: level events create a similar team event type feel so

963
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: that the guys like Xander and Kenttley who like playing

964
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: together could always play together in a series of four

965
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: to six team events, and you have a simultaneous sort

966
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: of team event running, you know, a parallel to the

967
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: PGA Tour season. So there's something else to be following

968
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 1: while these team events are unfolding. Well again, you know,

969
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: how about Andy Gardner from the Premier Golf League, who

970
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 1: came up with this whole kind of concept that the

971
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: Saudi's then stole that now is in line now with

972
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: the poor how about poor Andy Gardner's got to be

973
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: going like, uh, you know, I did kind of come

974
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 1: up with this whole plan and they never met with

975
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: Poor Andy. Poor Andy has got nothing.

976
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's and he's sort of one of the tragic

977
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 2: figures in my book because he he literally sketches out

978
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 2: in these legal notebooks and this idea that he came

979
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 2: up with ten years ago as it sneaked its way

980
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 2: through the entire ecosystem of golf and now it's it's

981
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 2: gone big time. But you know what Live tried to do,

982
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 2: and they've had some successes building these team identities regionally,

983
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 2: you have the All Ossi team, you have you know,

984
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 2: a Spanish speaking team, you have you have an all

985
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 2: South African team, and now that the volume just gets

986
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 2: turned way up on that. You know, Hadeki had a

987
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 2: huge offer from Live he turned down. But if you can,

988
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: if you can anchor an all Asian team, like how

989
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 2: much how much appeal could that have if you take

990
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 2: one of these events and you play it in Japan

991
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 2: like you saw him and Live went to Australia, it

992
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,399
Speaker 2: was a big deal. And the Ousti guy is worth

993
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 2: the center of all of it, Like, there is an

994
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 2: idea there that can work.

995
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 1: And how about Jordan, Justin, Ricky and Smiley Kaufman back

996
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: in with Tiger as the captain of the franchise?

997
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 2: Yes Break twenty sixteen.

998
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: This back your team is literally spring Break. All the

999
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,479
Speaker 1: people who've been constantly making fun of this team event

1000
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: and the names and the logos, I mean, have some

1001
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: it's coming.

1002
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be. It could be fun. And you know,

1003
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 2: to the earlier discussion about Tiger versus Phil, I mean,

1004
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 2: part of the model for Live Golf is that the captains,

1005
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 2: some of these captains were going to transition out of

1006
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 2: playing and just become like general managers. You know, no

1007
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: one expected Phil was going to keep playing forever, but

1008
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 2: it would be his team. He would run it. He

1009
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 2: would he would pick the players, he would make the trades,

1010
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 2: he would create a developmental system to harvest young talent.

1011
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 2: So you could still have Tiger and Phil competing against

1012
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,879
Speaker 2: each other through these teams. I mean, there, it could

1013
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 2: actually be fun.

1014
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: How about a final four of the team and the

1015
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 1: team versus team. It's college golf meets PGA Tour. I mean,

1016
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 1: the possibilities here are actually endless and exciting. Now that

1017
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: we're sort of jumped this little hurdle of of you know,

1018
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: hypocrisy and political bullshittery and financial greed and craziness and

1019
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 1: ego maniacal you know, back channels and private meetings and

1020
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: and I'm going to say this, but really mean this,

1021
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,720
Speaker 1: and oh shit, now I got an egg on my face.

1022
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 1: I mean, all of this comes to a screeching halt.

1023
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 2: Well, that was part of the problem, and it's part

1024
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 2: of American life.

1025
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:28,399
Speaker 4: Now.

1026
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 2: You have to stake out a position, you have to

1027
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 2: defend it to the death. There's no room for nuance

1028
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 2: or for you can't change your mind, then you're a

1029
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 2: you're a flip flopper. It's the worst. It's you know,

1030
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 2: that's what loses presidential elections when you get called the

1031
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 2: flip flopper. Well, a sign of intelligence is when you're

1032
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: presented with new information that you can you can synthesize

1033
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 2: it and maybe maybe change your thinking. And you know,

1034
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 2: everyone had to hate the team events because they were

1035
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 2: they were pro tour, anti live. But the team stuff's

1036
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 2: fun and it could really work. And the event at

1037
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 2: at DAL last year was the best event of the year.

1038
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 2: And if you followed it closely, it was cool. I

1039
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 2: mean you had they were playing individuals and teams at

1040
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 2: the same time. You had you had Phil versus Cam Smith.

1041
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 2: That had a lot of meaning. You know, in the end,

1042
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 2: the whole thing came down to Dustin and Cam Smith

1043
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 2: on the last hole. Doesn't had to make this putt

1044
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 2: to win the team event, and.

1045
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 1: Like it was, it was.

1046
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 2: It was the one live event that started. Even even

1047
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 2: the tour loyalists on social media and stuff, I could

1048
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 2: detect some energy They're like, oh, this is interesting, and

1049
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 2: so yeah, now it's going to be okay to to

1050
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 2: embrace the team stuff and and the whole the products

1051
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 2: were already converging, right, I mean, the Tour deciding the

1052
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 2: elevated events were gonna have no cut. That was just

1053
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 2: a nod to reality that people want the stars to

1054
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 2: be there and if you're asking companies to put this

1055
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 2: money in, you don't want Rory or whomever to miss

1056
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 2: the cut and be gone on the weekend. And so

1057
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,919
Speaker 2: like like Andy Gardner slashed the PGL slash the golf

1058
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 2: and figure this stuff out, and it incorporated it and

1059
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 2: and now that you know, now it's just going to

1060
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 2: become codified and what the PGA Tour is and it

1061
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 2: just makes sense. All the stuff makes.

1062
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:08,800
Speaker 1: Sense and could have all been avoided. It could have,

1063
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: but it's but it needed it, you know, the tour

1064
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 1: needed it. That's why that's why I said what I

1065
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: said early on. I like that that there's a disruptor

1066
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, we're going to

1067
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: end up with a better product. That was the hope

1068
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, there's going to

1069
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: be a week where we might actually be able to

1070
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: watch a broadcast of what we call the PGA Tour

1071
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: or Professional Golf without having to hear this non stop

1072
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: complaint noise about what it is that we're being served

1073
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: as a weekly product.

1074
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 2: It also just eliminates some total ridiculousness, like the Ryder

1075
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 2: Cup is the US against Europe. It existed for fifty years,

1076
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 2: whether the European Tour was even created, and somehow the

1077
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 2: tours have attached themselves to the right cup, like these

1078
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 2: parasites to sucking all the money out of it. But

1079
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 2: I mean, why can't Lee West would be a captain,

1080
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 2: He'd be a great captain. Why can't Surge you a

1081
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 2: team of John Ram Like all all this stuff had

1082
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 2: been grafted on to these events that didn't have to

1083
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 2: be there. And you know this, this this resolution just eliminates,

1084
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 2: like the world ranking it was was to become a joke.

1085
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 2: It'd become it become totally irrelevant. And yet they were

1086
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 2: fighting tooth and nail to keep live out just because

1087
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:31,919
Speaker 2: they felt like they had to and they were trying

1088
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: to be loyal to these other interests. Like now the

1089
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 2: world ranking can just make sense again. You know it's

1090
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 2: there was so much tortured thinking because everyone had to

1091
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 2: pick a side and they had to they had to

1092
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 2: somehow defend it, and it was it was it was

1093
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 2: getting in the way of common sense and what's good

1094
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 2: for golf fans and what's good for the sport. So

1095
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 2: that's the best part of all of this is now

1096
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 2: things can just make sense again, and players can play

1097
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 2: where they can play golf, and and all the other

1098
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 2: pieces fall into place. So it is it is as

1099
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 2: a fan, as an observer, it's a relief that we

1100
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 2: can we can get away from some of the nonsense.

1101
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 2: I agree with that for sure.

1102
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 4: What do you think this means for Brandal's future is

1103
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 4: You're going to be really happy saying this guy on

1104
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 4: Golf Channel, Uh, you know year.

1105
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I like Randall. I think he's really

1106
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 2: good at his job. He staked out a very specific

1107
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 2: position and it was defensible. You know, he he was

1108
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 2: you know when when the Saudi International went on the

1109
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 2: European tour schedule, he spoke out against that. You know,

1110
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 2: he's he's been consistent all along, and but I think

1111
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 2: he's gonna have to modulate some of his rhetoric and

1112
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 2: he's gonna he's gonna have to eat a little ship

1113
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 2: for a while because everyone else just decided he was wrong.

1114
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 2: I'm not saying he's wrong or right. I think what

1115
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 2: what he said is has been has been on point.

1116
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 2: In a lot of ways, but there's been so much

1117
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 2: of it and same same with Emon. I mean, they've

1118
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 2: just come back to it over and over. It's become

1119
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 2: it's become the defining part of their professional lives in

1120
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 2: some way, and definitely the landscape has changed. But you know,

1121
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 2: they're interesting characters in you know, they're both in the

1122
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 2: book as well. It's like, I don't begrudge them for

1123
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 2: having a strong point of view, but they it turns

1124
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 2: out that you know that the money interests are have

1125
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 2: overwhelmed any talk of morality, and so it doesn't make

1126
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 2: them wrong, but it means that that they chose the

1127
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 2: wrong side and it's gonna be a little complex to

1128
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 2: work their way back.

1129
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: I think that's I think that's very well said. They're

1130
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: not they're not wrong. They just you know, money always wins,

1131
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: follow the dollar. It's a business. And you know, again,

1132
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: I think Brandle has a very critical role in this game.

1133
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: I've never worked with anyone who you know, spends more

1134
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 1: time preparing, who can articulate a point the way he

1135
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 1: can on a regular basis. And I give him a

1136
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 1: lot of credit for taking a stand the way he

1137
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 1: did and how he did it. But you know, the

1138
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 1: business of golf and the business of professional golf a

1139
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: you know one out. I mean you can't, you can't.

1140
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 1: This is not about morality. It never was. This is

1141
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: not about actually being true right versus wrong. This is

1142
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: business and that's what just transpired.

1143
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's interesting too because you know, if when

1144
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 2: you when you get into the debate about right and wrong,

1145
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 2: I mean, was was the murder of Jamal Kashagi abomination?

1146
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 2: No one disputes that, even the guys who play on

1147
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 2: the lif golf have said as much. But I mean,

1148
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 2: so so was what what the US government did at

1149
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 2: Abu grab And you know, the extra judicial drone bombings

1150
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 2: from Barack Obama, Like our American foreign policy is not pure,

1151
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 2: it's not clean, and so when and that's you know,

1152
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 2: Keith Pelly said this to me, like when the europe

1153
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 2: the European Tour would have gone out of business a

1154
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 2: long time ago. The European Tour would have gone out

1155
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 2: of business a long time ago if if they didn't

1156
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 2: they didn't play in in China and Saudi Arabia and

1157
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 2: the United Arab Emirates and Turkey and Qatar and and

1158
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 2: all these places that have very questionable human rights records,

1159
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 2: and so it's always been a business It's always been

1160
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 2: a business decision for golf, and we got into this

1161
01:02:55,560 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 2: very tortured debate that kind of overwhelmed all the conversation

1162
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 2: around Live. But it's you know, sports has has voted

1163
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 2: on this a long time ago. I mean that's why

1164
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 2: we you know, Russia hosts the Olympics, that's why the

1165
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 2: Olympics go to China. Like sports has been okay with

1166
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 2: going to these parts of the world for a very

1167
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 2: long time. I mean the Olympic Games in Berlin in

1168
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty six. Like this, this is an old debate

1169
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 2: that it's always come back to the same answer is that,

1170
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 2: you know, sports can be a force that opens up

1171
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 2: the world. That's always what the Live guys said. People

1172
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 2: roll their eyes, but you know, if Saudi Arabia does

1173
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 2: want to modernize, if it does want to change, if

1174
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 2: they are actively trying to to become a different place,

1175
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 2: it's more more incorporated the Western world. I mean, the

1176
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:48,919
Speaker 2: PGA Tours is cann be part of that, whether whether

1177
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 2: people like it or not. And so it's it's definitely

1178
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 2: a very interesting subtext to all of this but I

1179
01:03:57,840 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 2: just feel like the debate was settled a long time

1180
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,919
Speaker 2: and if we're gonna, if we're gonna host Olympic games

1181
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 2: in Russia while they're invading Crimea, Like you know, sports

1182
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 2: fans have kind of they've they've said all along, we

1183
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: don't care. We just want our sports, we want to watch,

1184
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 2: we want to watch, and we're not going to get

1185
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 2: bogged down by the details. And again, is that right

1186
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 2: or wrong, that's for someone else to decide. But that's

1187
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 2: just it just is, like that's it just is. And

1188
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:24,920
Speaker 2: so this is just another step in that direction. But

1189
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 2: I mean half of the English Premier soccer teams are

1190
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 2: owned by Middle Eastern countries now, and you know, the fans,

1191
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 2: they if your team is not owned by one of

1192
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 2: by one of those interests, you're upset because you don't

1193
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 2: have the war chest to sign players. And like, I

1194
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 2: think sports fans voted a long time ago that that

1195
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 2: they just want sports to keep going and all these

1196
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 2: other things. They don't want to get bogged down.

1197
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 1: In a new collectively owned for profit entity, period, end

1198
01:04:58,120 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 1: of story.

1199
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's an important evolution for the PGA

1200
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 2: Tour because as as a nonprofit, they were they were

1201
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 2: limited in what they could do, and there's been you know,

1202
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 2: there were talks back last summer between Tiger and Rory

1203
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 2: and the guys that reigned Capital, like what if what

1204
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 2: if we change the whole model where we could be

1205
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 2: for profit, because then you can sell, you can bring

1206
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 2: in equity partners, you can you can do all kinds

1207
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 2: of things. It was it was probably an outdated model

1208
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 2: that had to change, and it just took it just

1209
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 2: too a thunderbolt like this. And so it gives a

1210
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 2: tour a lot more flexibility going forward business wise and

1211
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 2: how they can, how they can sorry, sorry you. By

1212
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 2: getting out of that charitable model. They can still give

1213
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 2: all the money they want to charity, but they do

1214
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 2: become much more flexible as a business.

1215
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 4: Alan. But now, as I read that release today and

1216
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 4: maybe nderstand this correctly, I thought that, well, just to

1217
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,439
Speaker 4: read it straight from it separately, PJ Turing will remain

1218
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 4: in place as a five O one C six tax

1219
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 4: exempt organization that retains administrative oversight of events and those

1220
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 4: assets contributed by the PHA Tour. So does that mean

1221
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 4: the PJ Tour events that we've known for a long

1222
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 4: time will continue to be not for what tax part

1223
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 4: of a tax exempt system. Was unclear on that at all.

1224
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 4: Is the whole umbrell a thing now a for profit

1225
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 4: business or is there this separate thing, the PJ tour

1226
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 4: events that sort of goes down it's old path.

1227
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 2: I think they're good. I think it's the latter where

1228
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 2: I mean the tours. The tour has just been this

1229
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 2: umbrell organization, like every tournament is its own entity that

1230
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 2: has its own charitable you know, apparatus that runs the

1231
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 2: whole thing.

1232
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 4: Is they always say you can't get the volunteers without that.

1233
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So so I think that model will remain in

1234
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 2: place where these these events will will continue to be

1235
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 2: run locally and the money will go to the local charities.

1236
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 2: But as they integrate the live events and this larger schedule,

1237
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 2: that's going to become a for profit business. And so

1238
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 2: it sounds like it's kind of the best both worlds

1239
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 2: for the tour where they they can still keep the

1240
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 2: local control of their old traditional events, but now as

1241
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 2: they embark down this new road, this parallel organization will

1242
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 2: have a lot more flexibility and how it runs its business,

1243
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 2: you know.

1244
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 4: And that even though live golf has been a disaster

1245
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 4: for the ratings disaster, and it's very limited sample that

1246
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 4: we have on the CW we did we have seen

1247
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 4: growing fan interest in terms of people actually showing up

1248
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 4: for tournaments, and it may indicate that young people, especially

1249
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 4: who didn't you grow up with the game as the

1250
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 4: three of us did, really don't care whether it's fifty

1251
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 4: four holes or seventy two holes, really doesn't care if

1252
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 4: a shotgun or not. Just want to have a good

1253
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 4: time and see competitive golf. As Allan is seventy times.

1254
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 4: It's still a guy over at golf off plan a shot,

1255
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 4: you know, and it's still a very difficult thing to

1256
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 4: do well. So maybe that was part of the tea

1257
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 4: in addition to the court system and other things that

1258
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 4: play here, that might have been a very big reality

1259
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 4: check for the for the PGA Tour. Along the same

1260
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 4: lines of the part of me when Callaway bought Top Golf,

1261
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 4: who would have expect to glorify driving rangers would become

1262
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:28,479
Speaker 4: the engine of your business, this big business that made

1263
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 4: golf clubs. But that's what's happened, because you know, that's

1264
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 4: what young people want.

1265
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 1: Young people remember when Top I remember when Top Golf

1266
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 1: came out, it was all everyone was allergic to it,

1267
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 1: acting as though that's not golf, that's not you know,

1268
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 1: that's not green grass, that's not Now there's more people

1269
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 1: playing non green grass golf than there is playing green

1270
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 1: grass golf. You know, if you can't beat them, join

1271
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: them again. Business. Never underestimate the power of the dollar

1272
01:08:59,560 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 1: I have.

1273
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 2: I have four teenagers and they're their friends are like

1274
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 2: my focus group on all of this because some of

1275
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 2: them are into golf, and they're way more into live

1276
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 2: golf than the PGA Tour because Lives has much better

1277
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:16,599
Speaker 2: social media stuff. It's much larger on TikTok. They they're

1278
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 2: they're better on Instagram than the tour. And they they

1279
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 2: like the they like the music, they like the whole thing.

1280
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 2: And that's been very eye opening for me to realize,

1281
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 2: like they they've bought into what's being sold and they

1282
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 2: they they it resonates with them and Live has done

1283
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 2: a good job catering to that market. And again Live

1284
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:39,760
Speaker 2: has never really shown the receipts. We don't know where

1285
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 2: the data is derived from, but but they always say

1286
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 2: that two thirds of their audience is forty five and

1287
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 2: under it. You can't underestimate how important that is and

1288
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 2: even if it's not a huge audience, that's what everyone's

1289
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 2: been chasing forever. And if they can, if they can

1290
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:54,760
Speaker 2: continue to grow that that becomes that was. That's a

1291
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:57,600
Speaker 2: powerful force. And now the tour can tap into that.

1292
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 2: I mean that it's like people our as are always

1293
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:07,680
Speaker 2: going to watch golf or older. But if you can

1294
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:11,560
Speaker 2: get people that like my kids' aides, that that's the

1295
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 2: whole business right there. And Live Live was making inroads

1296
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 2: and I think the tour recognized that the.

1297
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 1: PGA Tour gets a fresh scorecard, a shedding of this

1298
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 1: old white fuddy duddy skin that they needed to shed

1299
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:33,840
Speaker 1: a long time ago. This is you know, we've got,

1300
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:37,280
Speaker 1: you know, on the heels of COVID and a resurgence

1301
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 1: of the amateur sort of you know game as we

1302
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 1: know it gets to just we get to like stop,

1303
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 1: you know, you know, we get to stop talking about

1304
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 1: all of this stuff and get to like you know,

1305
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: of ranking the best. We get to root you know,

1306
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: we get to see Patrick Reid versus Jordan Spieth on

1307
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 1: a regular but we get to see good guys versus

1308
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:13,799
Speaker 1: bad guys kind of stuff again on a regular basis.

1309
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 1: Instead of what was going to be four times a year.

1310
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:20,560
Speaker 1: I mean, oh, it's like one big sort of ayahuasca,

1311
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:29,719
Speaker 1: you know, purgeon of all of this stuff. And let's

1312
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 1: move on.

1313
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1314
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:36,880
Speaker 2: Trump, Well so that's interesting. I mean he's got a

1315
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 2: lot of other yeah, but he now has he has

1316
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 2: two more live events on his courses. And you know,

1317
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:46,599
Speaker 2: all he's ever wanted was to be the warm embrace

1318
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:49,680
Speaker 2: of the golf world. The RNA won't go to Turnberry,

1319
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 2: the PJ of America took away the PG Championship, the

1320
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 2: Tour took away his derial event. I mean, he's been

1321
01:11:57,479 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 2: completely shut out of the game, and now all of

1322
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:01,800
Speaker 2: a sudden he's back the PGA Tour schedule. It's good

1323
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 2: for Trump for sure. Whether it's good for golf and

1324
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 2: that's the separate issue. But he's he's gonna he's going

1325
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,800
Speaker 2: to be loving this, and he did. You know, we've

1326
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 2: talked about this. Trump has a he has this some

1327
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:20,400
Speaker 2: kind of genius where he can predict the future right,

1328
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 2: like he said it, I could I could shoot a

1329
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 2: guy on Fifth Avenue and my supporters wouldn't care. I mean,

1330
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 2: he was right about that. Well, you remember his tweet

1331
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 2: about he said all these PG tour guys. They should

1332
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 2: go to live and take the money now because when

1333
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 2: the merger comes, they're not going to get anything. I mean,

1334
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:38,639
Speaker 2: he tweeted that months ago. He was right, So he's

1335
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:40,680
Speaker 2: gonna he's going to be delighted by this whole thing.

1336
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 2: Let me let me just address I've art. I mean,

1337
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:47,040
Speaker 2: my social media has been hilarious this morning. Is this

1338
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 2: the most important question all this is it's good or

1339
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 2: bad for my book? Right, Like, let's let's get down

1340
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 2: to the real core issue here. But it's so funny.

1341
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:58,840
Speaker 2: I turned it in two nights ago, and uh, it

1342
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 2: was a monumental f to get to the finish line. Clearly,

1343
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 2: there's gonna be some there's gonna be some new stuff

1344
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 2: on the last chapters out the window. But I I'm

1345
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 2: happy it happened when it did, because if if all

1346
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 2: this stuff came down is after the book was printed,

1347
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 2: that would be really sad. So I will be reporting

1348
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 2: my bottom off here and get the inside scoop on

1349
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:23,720
Speaker 2: how all this played out and everything that led to

1350
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 2: this moment is so germane. I mean that there's there's

1351
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 2: there's so much backstory and what was really happening by

1352
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 2: in the scenes. It's in the page to the book.

1353
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:34,600
Speaker 2: So I'm choosing to look on the bright side that

1354
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:38,680
Speaker 2: the timing it wasn't too late, and it kind of

1355
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 2: puts a bow on the whole thing, and this will

1356
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 2: be the definitive account of how it all played out.

1357
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 2: So the comments on my Twitter have been been quite funny.

1358
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 2: I'm not sad, I'm not curled up in the feudal position.

1359
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 2: I'm not in a dark room like Aaron Rodgers for

1360
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:58,880
Speaker 2: three days like it's all good. This is this puts

1361
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:02,760
Speaker 2: an exclamation point on this whole crazy project. So I

1362
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:03,519
Speaker 2: just carry on.

1363
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 1: When you hit send, honest like, you know, what part

1364
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:14,479
Speaker 1: of you felt like something like this might happen between

1365
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 1: the time you hit send and the time it actually,

1366
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, was printed.

1367
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean the whole last

1368
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:23,640
Speaker 2: chapter was kind of looking into the future, and I

1369
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 2: do talk at length about why it makes sense for

1370
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:28,680
Speaker 2: a merger to happen and how it could look. So

1371
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:32,840
Speaker 2: this is not a total shocker, and I was always

1372
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:34,640
Speaker 2: gonna have a chance to update it through probably through

1373
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 2: the British Open you know, when there's probably going to

1374
01:14:37,439 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 2: be a resolution of some sorts of the world ranking,

1375
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,640
Speaker 2: and so I was going to keep following this for

1376
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 2: the next couple of months anyway. But yeah, that was

1377
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 2: always the great anxiety. You know, what could what could happen?

1378
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 2: It seemed like, you know, the court cases could have

1379
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:54,759
Speaker 2: gotten settled, that could have changed the structure of golf,

1380
01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 2: you know. I A merger always made sense. It always

1381
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:02,439
Speaker 2: seemed inevitable the way things were going. But I think

1382
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 2: it's way sooner than anyone ever imagined. So I wasn't

1383
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:08,519
Speaker 2: totally worried about that. I thought that was you know,

1384
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 2: that might happen in December, January, February, but the book

1385
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 2: could already have been out by then. So yeah, it's

1386
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:17,680
Speaker 2: it's wild that it happened when it did, but it's advantageous,

1387
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 2: I think, is now now it's changed. This was always

1388
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 2: going to be the definitive account of how we got

1389
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 2: to this moment, but it was a little bit of

1390
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 2: a cliffhanger. Is how is it going to end? Well,

1391
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 2: now we know the ending, so I'm happy. I think.

1392
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 2: I think this is kind of a best case scenario.

1393
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:33,600
Speaker 2: But even though it's going to be to have a

1394
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 2: lot more work, it's okay. I'll power through well while we're.

1395
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 1: While we're addressing some internal stuff, we should also make

1396
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 1: note of our sponsorship and Dormy Workshop, which makes quality

1397
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 1: leather goods, and on the Firepitcollective dot com. In our

1398
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:55,240
Speaker 1: pitch shop we are have a limited supply only of

1399
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 1: a new fire pit head cover by Dormy Workshop which

1400
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:04,640
Speaker 1: comes with a little matching pouch. And so go to

1401
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,120
Speaker 1: firepic Collective dot com and support the cause. But Alan,

1402
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:09,120
Speaker 1: how many how many live events have you gone to?

1403
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:15,200
Speaker 2: I'd have to total that up. I mean most of them,

1404
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 2: you can. I can say that I was. I was.

1405
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:23,360
Speaker 2: I didn't do the big international ones, but uh, you know,

1406
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 2: I was. I was certainly. And it was interesting because

1407
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:26,720
Speaker 2: I was in Mexico and I was in Tucson at

1408
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:29,679
Speaker 2: the start of this year, and things were changing fast,

1409
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 2: and you could feel the jitters because the piff guys

1410
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 2: that's sort of taken control and they were mandating. There

1411
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 2: was a lot more governance, so it was a lot

1412
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:41,240
Speaker 2: more oversight. Last year they were they were just trying

1413
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 2: to launch. It was very chaotic in the wake of

1414
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:46,280
Speaker 2: Phil's comments. Everything. Everything was happening really fast, and they

1415
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 2: were spending like crazy because they just had to get

1416
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:53,519
Speaker 2: off the ground and the start of this year it

1417
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 2: was edgy. I mean, someone who's really dialed into what's

1418
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:58,720
Speaker 2: happened and out there on Live said to me coming

1419
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:01,280
Speaker 2: out of out of Tuson, He's like, I'm worried about

1420
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 2: this whole thing. Like it's we're on the edge right now.

1421
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:13,519
Speaker 2: There's the players, we're we're feeling the anxiety because they

1422
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:16,720
Speaker 2: basically Live accelerated scheduled by a full year. You know

1423
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:18,639
Speaker 2: that the team build that wasn't supposed to happen until

1424
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, but they very smartly said, this is

1425
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 2: the best thing we have going, let's accelerate it. And

1426
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 2: so you know there's only originally there's only gonna be

1427
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 2: ten events this year and fourteen next year. They moved

1428
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 2: that up and so there was this this feeling of

1429
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:35,960
Speaker 2: the ground was shifting beneath their feet, and there was

1430
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 2: there were a lot of jitters. And then then they

1431
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 2: went to Australia and that was a huge shot of

1432
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 2: adrenaline for the whole organization and confidence and people kind

1433
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:45,519
Speaker 2: of said, Okay, I can see what what Live Golf

1434
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:46,720
Speaker 2: is going to be. You know, we're gonna go to

1435
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 2: these markets, We're gonna we're gonna go to places where

1436
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 2: they haven't seen big time golf, And coming out of

1437
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:54,720
Speaker 2: that there was a whole totally different feeling like, Okay,

1438
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 2: we've kind of found our footing. You know, the Tulsa

1439
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:01,240
Speaker 2: event was by far the biggest crowd they never had domestically,

1440
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:03,759
Speaker 2: you had the Masters, you had Brooks win the PGA,

1441
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:08,680
Speaker 2: Like there was a real momentum out there. So I've

1442
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:12,799
Speaker 2: never I never felt like LIVE was gonna I've always

1443
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:15,200
Speaker 2: talking to the people at the top like they they

1444
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:18,000
Speaker 2: they've had ten year models, financial models like they have

1445
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:21,640
Speaker 2: they have commitments going way out into the future. So

1446
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 2: I was never worried that Live was gonna was going

1447
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 2: to go away, but it felt like there was There

1448
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:28,800
Speaker 2: was there was. It was tense internally as it was

1449
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:31,640
Speaker 2: sort of this battle for supremacy. Part of that was,

1450
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 2: you know, this guy Magie els Roar, he'd been the

1451
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:37,760
Speaker 2: day to day shot caller. He got pushed out, like

1452
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 2: there was a lot happening behind the scenes, and so

1453
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 2: I feel like this is the best thing that could

1454
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:49,360
Speaker 2: have happened to Live clearly, like their future is now defined,

1455
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:51,880
Speaker 2: their their mission is clear.

1456
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 4: And.

1457
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 2: There's there's just there's been a resolution that that that

1458
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:59,320
Speaker 2: that was needed because it was a very free wheeling

1459
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 2: kind of energy around that place. They were making it

1460
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:06,240
Speaker 2: up as they went along, and it worked like they

1461
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:10,160
Speaker 2: got what they wanted. But things are going to settle

1462
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 2: down now there Now the tumult's gonna be get on

1463
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:16,040
Speaker 2: the PGA tour, selling this to the players, pushing this

1464
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:20,600
Speaker 2: through all the various boards, finalizing the schedule. What it

1465
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 2: all means that it's kind of like the burden, the

1466
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:24,960
Speaker 2: burden has shifted. You know, Live had to prove it

1467
01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:28,840
Speaker 2: was viable. It had to, it had to launch. It

1468
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:31,400
Speaker 2: did had enough success that the tour had to had

1469
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 2: to you know, it was a reckoning for the tour.

1470
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 2: And so now now that the burden of proof is

1471
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 2: on the PGA tour to make this work. And so

1472
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:42,040
Speaker 2: it's it's incredible how fast this is all flipped.

1473
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:45,160
Speaker 1: Michael, Where do you? Where do you? Where do you?

1474
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:47,679
Speaker 1: How do you make peace? How do you make peace

1475
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,040
Speaker 1: with all this? Where do you go from here? I mean,

1476
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:57,040
Speaker 1: your purity is has been compromised. I feel like in

1477
01:19:57,200 --> 01:19:59,760
Speaker 1: terms of like now what for now? What for a

1478
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:00,400
Speaker 1: guy I like you?

1479
01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 4: I mean it kind of goes to what you said, earlier, Matt.

1480
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:07,720
Speaker 4: You know, they can't take golf away from me, the

1481
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:09,680
Speaker 4: game that you and I have loved, you know, all

1482
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:13,600
Speaker 4: our lives. It kind of makes me double down on

1483
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 4: my own golfing experience, playing golf with my friends. That's

1484
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 4: how I started this game, and that has sustained me

1485
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:26,559
Speaker 4: all my life. Nothing changes there, If anything, it probably

1486
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:30,720
Speaker 4: only makes it a little deeper. You know, I don't

1487
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:33,040
Speaker 4: think I'm different than anybody else. I'm always trying to

1488
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:35,840
Speaker 4: learn something about how the world really works.

1489
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 1: So you know, I have my own.

1490
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:44,760
Speaker 4: Idealism in standards. You know, I think Brooks Kopka lied

1491
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:48,200
Speaker 4: his way out of that thing on the fifteenth at

1492
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:50,720
Speaker 4: Augusta this year. I think it would have been much

1493
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:54,679
Speaker 4: better for everybody had he just said, yes, something happened

1494
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:56,839
Speaker 4: there and taking the shots. But that's not what happened.

1495
01:20:57,360 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 4: So you can have your own little vision of how

1496
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,680
Speaker 4: the world should work, and that's great and we all

1497
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:06,720
Speaker 4: have that. And then if you want to be a

1498
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:09,400
Speaker 4: person at large in the world, you better try to

1499
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:13,040
Speaker 4: understand how the world really works. And you know this

1500
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,919
Speaker 4: our twenty ment Solve Been Together has been a discourse

1501
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 4: for me in it. Watching Jay Monahan's body language with Yair,

1502
01:21:20,479 --> 01:21:23,720
Speaker 4: you know, has been part of it. Seeing as we've

1503
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 4: you know, you guys have have lined up the you know,

1504
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 4: the the raith Yon common and the judicial process and

1505
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:32,600
Speaker 4: how that comes together the crowds that where do they

1506
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:35,120
Speaker 4: really have the big crowds? Was it in the two

1507
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:38,760
Speaker 4: side event in Australia and Australia as well? Yeah, yeah,

1508
01:21:39,400 --> 01:21:43,960
Speaker 4: excuse me, and so you know, it's it's both, Matt,

1509
01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:49,080
Speaker 4: it's uh, you know, we're It is another illustration of

1510
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:52,240
Speaker 4: everything that you learn from reading you know, Shakespeare and

1511
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 4: Mario Puzo and everything else. How the world really works.

1512
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:58,519
Speaker 4: You can't put your head in the sand and ignore it.

1513
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:11,240
Speaker 4: And life's interesting and it's I don't know, I think

1514
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:16,200
Speaker 4: it's kind of I feel kind I feel personally queasy

1515
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:22,200
Speaker 4: about this thing because I think money is corrupting in general.

1516
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 4: I mean, I know Alan only said this innocently, but

1517
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:30,519
Speaker 4: Alan's question is it good for the book? I mean

1518
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:34,800
Speaker 4: that there's a question of commerce behind that. You know,

1519
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 4: the book should be the book. If people get drawn

1520
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:38,640
Speaker 4: to the book or not, well that's sort of like

1521
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:41,439
Speaker 4: out of your control. But in fact, but the world,

1522
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:44,080
Speaker 4: the real world is yeah, This is good for the book,

1523
01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:46,720
Speaker 4: more people interested in how this whole Live thing got

1524
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:49,720
Speaker 4: to where it is. So I think money is corrupting.

1525
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:54,000
Speaker 4: It troubles me on every level, and I think we're

1526
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:58,240
Speaker 4: seeing it here. You know, Monahan had a stand, Rory

1527
01:22:58,280 --> 01:23:05,640
Speaker 4: had a stand, and in money collapsed those stands. But also, okay, now,

1528
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:07,280
Speaker 4: what are you going to learn from that that you're

1529
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:08,640
Speaker 4: going to apply it to your own life and how

1530
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:10,599
Speaker 4: you think about life and how you vote and how

1531
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:11,679
Speaker 4: you read and everything else.

1532
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:16,639
Speaker 2: Well that that's really well said. That's probably a great

1533
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:19,719
Speaker 2: place to end it, because it's a complicated day for golf,

1534
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:22,240
Speaker 2: not just the logistics of how this is going to work,

1535
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:25,680
Speaker 2: but emotionally for all of us. Like we've been on

1536
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:29,759
Speaker 2: this roller coaster ride for the last you know, essentially

1537
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:31,880
Speaker 2: a year. It's excuse me, also a year to the

1538
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:35,040
Speaker 2: day since Live held its first tournament. But there was

1539
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:37,680
Speaker 2: this long drum beat leading up to it, including the

1540
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:43,080
Speaker 2: Michelson comments, but even beyond that, the whole issue. My

1541
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:47,160
Speaker 2: cat's on the keyboard here, cat, you know all the

1542
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 2: uh it started with the PGL. I mean, this has

1543
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 2: been a background issue at the highest levels of professional

1544
01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:56,439
Speaker 2: golf for five years, six years. I mean that the

1545
01:23:56,520 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 2: first news break about the about the PGL in twenty eighteen,

1546
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 2: and this is hovered over the sport and so we

1547
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:09,719
Speaker 2: finally know how the story ends. Some details to be sorted,

1548
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:15,000
Speaker 2: but a quite a thunderbolt here on Tuesday morning, June sixth.

1549
01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:18,439
Speaker 2: We will continue to make sense of all this year

1550
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:20,759
Speaker 2: at the Firepit Collective. I'm sure there'll be some typing

1551
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:23,880
Speaker 2: done in the coming days and probably some more podcasting,

1552
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:27,519
Speaker 2: but I think this was a great opening salvo to

1553
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:33,280
Speaker 2: understand what just happened. So Michael Bamberger, Matt Janella, appreciate

1554
01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:36,799
Speaker 2: all your thoughts here. We're gonna wrap up this podcast,

1555
01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:39,519
Speaker 2: but we'll be back in your year soon, so thanks

1556
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:41,040
Speaker 2: for listening. That's the end.

1557
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:45,080
Speaker 1: I'm Ben Big again.

1558
01:24:45,120 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 3: I played the wind, made a fortune.

1559
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:52,479
Speaker 1: When my ship came in, I ran the table and

1560
01:24:52,760 --> 01:24:53,920
Speaker 1: I thought I could fall.

1561
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 3: Then the win hit me.

1562
01:24:56,320 --> 01:24:57,679
Speaker 4: Lack a can in the ball.

1563
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:05,200
Speaker 1: No, I can't shake this losing streak. Every road I

1564
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:07,280
Speaker 1: take is a dead hand street.

1565
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 3: I got thoughts in my head, can't get them out,

1566
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:16,759
Speaker 3: trying not to think what I'm thinking about.

1567
01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:20,599
Speaker 4: I've got thoughts in my head, can't get them out.

1568
01:25:21,400 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 3: Trying not to think what I'm thinking about

1569
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:28,720
Speaker 4: H