WEBVTT - Privacy Concerns Surround Retail Pharmacies Distributing COVID-19 Vaccines

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, April six. I'm Oscar Ramirez from the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>Retail pharmacies are a huge part of the administration's plan

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<v Speaker 1>to get the country vaccinated, but privacy watchdogs are raising

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<v Speaker 1>red flags and want oversight and how these pharmacies might

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<v Speaker 1>be using personal information to boost profits. In many cases,

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<v Speaker 1>to sign up for your vaccine, you may need to

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<v Speaker 1>hand over phone numbers, emails, and even more personal data.

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<v Speaker 1>Mohanna Reventer nath e health reporter at Politico, joins us

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<v Speaker 1>for more. Thanks for joining us, Mohanna, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>The Biden administration has been really big on retail pharmacies

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<v Speaker 1>and this whole rollout of the vaccines. You know, we're

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<v Speaker 1>sending millions of doses to CVS, Walgreens, Ride Aids, Walmart's,

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<v Speaker 1>even all obviously in the effort to get as many

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<v Speaker 1>people vaccinated as possible. But what also is happening right

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<v Speaker 1>now is there's a lot of privacy watchdogs that are

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<v Speaker 1>sounding alarms on you know, the infra nation that you

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<v Speaker 1>have to hand over when you're trying to book your appointment,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it be phone number, email, both. In some cases,

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<v Speaker 1>some of these places make you sign up for like

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<v Speaker 1>an online portal and you have to give some personal

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<v Speaker 1>information there. They say they're using it to track people

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<v Speaker 1>and give them reminders when it's their vaccine time and

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<v Speaker 1>schedule appointments are up, but you know they could also

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<v Speaker 1>be using it for some other things. So you know

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<v Speaker 1>that's what the concern is. So Mohana tell us a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit more about this place. So we know that

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<v Speaker 1>national retail pharmacy chains are a big part of the

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<v Speaker 1>federal vaccine rollout, and what we're finding is that to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to get these spots, people often have to

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<v Speaker 1>make an account or they have to share some information

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<v Speaker 1>with like a CBS or write aid or a Walmart

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<v Speaker 1>to be able in some cases to even find out

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<v Speaker 1>if they're eligible or to find out if there's a

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<v Speaker 1>slot available. So the question now becomes what can pharmacies

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<v Speaker 1>do with that data? And you know, we know that

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<v Speaker 1>retail pharmacies have for a long time had huge amounts

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<v Speaker 1>of data on people that are going into flu shots

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<v Speaker 1>or refilling their prescriptions and things like this. They also

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<v Speaker 1>have marketing, They have information on people buying habits based

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<v Speaker 1>on what they buy sort of at the front of

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<v Speaker 1>the store. But the question arises now when they were

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<v Speaker 1>part of you know, the public health Emergency response and

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<v Speaker 1>they're you know, collectively offering millions of doses of the

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<v Speaker 1>life saving vaccine UM. What does that mean for people

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<v Speaker 1>that potentially don't have a choice but to make an

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<v Speaker 1>account with a Walmart or Sam's Clouds or something like

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<v Speaker 1>that in exchange for the vaccine. So one of the

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<v Speaker 1>things we're looking at is, you know, are they able

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<v Speaker 1>to use that information from marketing or are they able

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<v Speaker 1>to sign you up for a loyalty program? And based

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<v Speaker 1>on our review of these sites, often these companies don't

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<v Speaker 1>make clear how they're using that data. And we have

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<v Speaker 1>companies like CBS who have been very upfront about their

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<v Speaker 1>plans to in the future use this information for turning

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<v Speaker 1>these newcomers into repeat customers. Yeah, that was very interesting,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. And so these pharmacies have a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>room to collect these user customer data and everything. They

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<v Speaker 1>can't use a lot of your health information sensitive health information,

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<v Speaker 1>and so there's a distinction there. But that number and

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<v Speaker 1>that email, as you mentioned, they can use it for

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of other things there. But tell me about

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit more about that. There was like some

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<v Speaker 1>memos or something going around talking about how because you're

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<v Speaker 1>supposed to wait about fifteen minutes after you get your

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<v Speaker 1>vaccine to make sure you don't get any reactions, and

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<v Speaker 1>this was a key moment where they can help turn

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<v Speaker 1>these people getting their vaccines into longer term customers. How

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<v Speaker 1>how did that work out? So it's interesting as I

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<v Speaker 1>talked to these companies, and you know, the participants in

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<v Speaker 1>this retail rollout are not just huge national pharmacy chains

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<v Speaker 1>like a CBS, but also networks of independent pharmacies. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think what they're doing right now is they're trying

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<v Speaker 1>to figure out how do we make this into sort

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<v Speaker 1>of a business opportunity somewhere down the line. Of course

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<v Speaker 1>they will all tell us and you know, no reason

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<v Speaker 1>not to believe that this is you know, it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>a crucial part of public health response. Of course that

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<v Speaker 1>is their main priority. But then we also know that

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<v Speaker 1>it's not really a money maker for them, and so

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<v Speaker 1>I think they're realizing that they do have access to

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<v Speaker 1>huge amounts of data as part of the Testy rollout,

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<v Speaker 1>so they're thinking about how they can sort of you know,

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<v Speaker 1>increased brand awareness. You know, some of the independent, the

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<v Speaker 1>smaller independent pharmacies are thinking, you know, how can we

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<v Speaker 1>let people in the community know who we are people

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<v Speaker 1>who have never come to us? And in the case

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<v Speaker 1>of CVS, it's like, how do we tell people that

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<v Speaker 1>have never come to CVS before who we are and

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<v Speaker 1>what we do. So I see a lot of these

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<v Speaker 1>pharmacies thinking about how this really cumbersome rollout process can

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<v Speaker 1>be valuable somewhere down the line in terms of marketing

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<v Speaker 1>or building their healthcare response. And some of the criticism

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<v Speaker 1>for some of these privacy watchdogs is that when people

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<v Speaker 1>go in their flu shots, this isn't really done that way.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not really collecting that type of information, So why

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<v Speaker 1>would it be happening with this And I get it,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to make your appointment. The resources are low

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<v Speaker 1>right now with the vaccines, but you know, they're making

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<v Speaker 1>those comparisons to flu shots where they don't really collect

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of that information. If you're gonna go, it's

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<v Speaker 1>free and it's it's quick. I think there are a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of things that make this different from flu shot rollout.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the volume, the number of people that are

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<v Speaker 1>being asked and expected to get the vaccine is probably

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<v Speaker 1>greater than the number that generally get their flu shots.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think that there is a difference on the

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<v Speaker 1>amount of data that they're getting from a larger number

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<v Speaker 1>of people than they normally would. But there's also this

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<v Speaker 1>question of you know, do people always have to create accounts?

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<v Speaker 1>I think people are often able to drop in for

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<v Speaker 1>their flu shots, and a lot of these pharmacies are

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<v Speaker 1>not allowing you to just drop in for your COVID shots.

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<v Speaker 1>You do have to make an account. In some cases

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<v Speaker 1>that account is kept separate from their marketing databases. But

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<v Speaker 1>at least these companies are telling me that in some

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<v Speaker 1>cases they are keeping the COVID nineteen vaccine sign up

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<v Speaker 1>separate from marketing databases. But some companies have not been

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<v Speaker 1>as explicit, and so what has the reaction been to this,

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<v Speaker 1>at least from the retail pharmacies. So, you know, retail

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<v Speaker 1>pharmacies often will tell us we collect the amount of

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<v Speaker 1>information that is necessary to track second doses or to

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<v Speaker 1>administer the doses. But also what I'm finding is that

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<v Speaker 1>there's a wide variation and what retail pharmacies collect at

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<v Speaker 1>the point of sign up. Right, so in our review.

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<v Speaker 1>My colleague and I when we were looking through all

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<v Speaker 1>these portals, we're finding that places like Walmart and Sam

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<v Speaker 1>Clubs require you to make an account first before you

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<v Speaker 1>even look at eligibility, before you can see scheduling. Other

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<v Speaker 1>places will let you look at scheduling and eligibility before

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<v Speaker 1>you make an account, but you do have to make

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<v Speaker 1>an account to sign up. And so it's really interesting

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<v Speaker 1>to see the wide variation and what people have to share.

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<v Speaker 1>Um places like Right Aid, for instance, will ask for

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<v Speaker 1>your Social Security number. Not everybody does that, and so

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<v Speaker 1>what the amounts of data that a person has to share.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think how it's used will vary depending on

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<v Speaker 1>the pharmacy, and I think that's where privacy watchdogs are

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<v Speaker 1>also raising the alarm. Mohanna Revenge your neath e health

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<v Speaker 1>reporter at Politico, thank you very much for joining us.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much. I'm alst Ramirez and this has been

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<v Speaker 1>reopening America. Don't forget effort today's big news stories. You

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<v Speaker 1>can check me out on the Daily Dive podcast every

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