Speaker 1: It's Friday, April six. I'm Oscar Ramirez from the Daily
Speaker 1: Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.
Speaker 1: Retail pharmacies are a huge part of the administration's plan
Speaker 1: to get the country vaccinated, but privacy watchdogs are raising
Speaker 1: red flags and want oversight and how these pharmacies might
Speaker 1: be using personal information to boost profits. In many cases,
Speaker 1: to sign up for your vaccine, you may need to
Speaker 1: hand over phone numbers, emails, and even more personal data.
Speaker 1: Mohanna Reventer nath e health reporter at Politico, joins us
Speaker 1: for more. Thanks for joining us, Mohanna, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: The Biden administration has been really big on retail pharmacies
Speaker 1: and this whole rollout of the vaccines. You know, we're
Speaker 1: sending millions of doses to CVS, Walgreens, Ride Aids, Walmart's,
Speaker 1: even all obviously in the effort to get as many
Speaker 1: people vaccinated as possible. But what also is happening right
Speaker 1: now is there's a lot of privacy watchdogs that are
Speaker 1: sounding alarms on you know, the infra nation that you
Speaker 1: have to hand over when you're trying to book your appointment,
Speaker 1: whether it be phone number, email, both. In some cases,
Speaker 1: some of these places make you sign up for like
Speaker 1: an online portal and you have to give some personal
Speaker 1: information there. They say they're using it to track people
Speaker 1: and give them reminders when it's their vaccine time and
Speaker 1: schedule appointments are up, but you know they could also
Speaker 1: be using it for some other things. So you know
Speaker 1: that's what the concern is. So Mohana tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit more about this place. So we know that
Speaker 1: national retail pharmacy chains are a big part of the
Speaker 1: federal vaccine rollout, and what we're finding is that to
Speaker 1: be able to get these spots, people often have to
Speaker 1: make an account or they have to share some information
Speaker 1: with like a CBS or write aid or a Walmart
Speaker 1: to be able in some cases to even find out
Speaker 1: if they're eligible or to find out if there's a
Speaker 1: slot available. So the question now becomes what can pharmacies
Speaker 1: do with that data? And you know, we know that
Speaker 1: retail pharmacies have for a long time had huge amounts
Speaker 1: of data on people that are going into flu shots
Speaker 1: or refilling their prescriptions and things like this. They also
Speaker 1: have marketing, They have information on people buying habits based
Speaker 1: on what they buy sort of at the front of
Speaker 1: the store. But the question arises now when they were
Speaker 1: part of you know, the public health Emergency response and
Speaker 1: they're you know, collectively offering millions of doses of the
Speaker 1: life saving vaccine UM. What does that mean for people
Speaker 1: that potentially don't have a choice but to make an
Speaker 1: account with a Walmart or Sam's Clouds or something like
Speaker 1: that in exchange for the vaccine. So one of the
Speaker 1: things we're looking at is, you know, are they able
Speaker 1: to use that information from marketing or are they able
Speaker 1: to sign you up for a loyalty program? And based
Speaker 1: on our review of these sites, often these companies don't
Speaker 1: make clear how they're using that data. And we have
Speaker 1: companies like CBS who have been very upfront about their
Speaker 1: plans to in the future use this information for turning
Speaker 1: these newcomers into repeat customers. Yeah, that was very interesting,
Speaker 1: you know. And so these pharmacies have a lot of
Speaker 1: room to collect these user customer data and everything. They
Speaker 1: can't use a lot of your health information sensitive health information,
Speaker 1: and so there's a distinction there. But that number and
Speaker 1: that email, as you mentioned, they can use it for
Speaker 1: a couple of other things there. But tell me about
Speaker 1: a little bit more about that. There was like some
Speaker 1: memos or something going around talking about how because you're
Speaker 1: supposed to wait about fifteen minutes after you get your
Speaker 1: vaccine to make sure you don't get any reactions, and
Speaker 1: this was a key moment where they can help turn
Speaker 1: these people getting their vaccines into longer term customers. How
Speaker 1: how did that work out? So it's interesting as I
Speaker 1: talked to these companies, and you know, the participants in
Speaker 1: this retail rollout are not just huge national pharmacy chains
Speaker 1: like a CBS, but also networks of independent pharmacies. And
Speaker 1: I think what they're doing right now is they're trying
Speaker 1: to figure out how do we make this into sort
Speaker 1: of a business opportunity somewhere down the line. Of course
Speaker 1: they will all tell us and you know, no reason
Speaker 1: not to believe that this is you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: a crucial part of public health response. Of course that
Speaker 1: is their main priority. But then we also know that
Speaker 1: it's not really a money maker for them, and so
Speaker 1: I think they're realizing that they do have access to
Speaker 1: huge amounts of data as part of the Testy rollout,
Speaker 1: so they're thinking about how they can sort of you know,
Speaker 1: increased brand awareness. You know, some of the independent, the
Speaker 1: smaller independent pharmacies are thinking, you know, how can we
Speaker 1: let people in the community know who we are people
Speaker 1: who have never come to us? And in the case
Speaker 1: of CVS, it's like, how do we tell people that
Speaker 1: have never come to CVS before who we are and
Speaker 1: what we do. So I see a lot of these
Speaker 1: pharmacies thinking about how this really cumbersome rollout process can
Speaker 1: be valuable somewhere down the line in terms of marketing
Speaker 1: or building their healthcare response. And some of the criticism
Speaker 1: for some of these privacy watchdogs is that when people
Speaker 1: go in their flu shots, this isn't really done that way.
Speaker 1: They're not really collecting that type of information, So why
Speaker 1: would it be happening with this And I get it,
Speaker 1: you have to make your appointment. The resources are low
Speaker 1: right now with the vaccines, but you know, they're making
Speaker 1: those comparisons to flu shots where they don't really collect
Speaker 1: a lot of that information. If you're gonna go, it's
Speaker 1: free and it's it's quick. I think there are a
Speaker 1: couple of things that make this different from flu shot rollout.
Speaker 1: I think the volume, the number of people that are
Speaker 1: being asked and expected to get the vaccine is probably
Speaker 1: greater than the number that generally get their flu shots.
Speaker 1: So I think that there is a difference on the
Speaker 1: amount of data that they're getting from a larger number
Speaker 1: of people than they normally would. But there's also this
Speaker 1: question of you know, do people always have to create accounts?
Speaker 1: I think people are often able to drop in for
Speaker 1: their flu shots, and a lot of these pharmacies are
Speaker 1: not allowing you to just drop in for your COVID shots.
Speaker 1: You do have to make an account. In some cases
Speaker 1: that account is kept separate from their marketing databases. But
Speaker 1: at least these companies are telling me that in some
Speaker 1: cases they are keeping the COVID nineteen vaccine sign up
Speaker 1: separate from marketing databases. But some companies have not been
Speaker 1: as explicit, and so what has the reaction been to this,
Speaker 1: at least from the retail pharmacies. So, you know, retail
Speaker 1: pharmacies often will tell us we collect the amount of
Speaker 1: information that is necessary to track second doses or to
Speaker 1: administer the doses. But also what I'm finding is that
Speaker 1: there's a wide variation and what retail pharmacies collect at
Speaker 1: the point of sign up. Right, so in our review.
Speaker 1: My colleague and I when we were looking through all
Speaker 1: these portals, we're finding that places like Walmart and Sam
Speaker 1: Clubs require you to make an account first before you
Speaker 1: even look at eligibility, before you can see scheduling. Other
Speaker 1: places will let you look at scheduling and eligibility before
Speaker 1: you make an account, but you do have to make
Speaker 1: an account to sign up. And so it's really interesting
Speaker 1: to see the wide variation and what people have to share.
Speaker 1: Um places like Right Aid, for instance, will ask for
Speaker 1: your Social Security number. Not everybody does that, and so
Speaker 1: what the amounts of data that a person has to share.
Speaker 1: And I think how it's used will vary depending on
Speaker 1: the pharmacy, and I think that's where privacy watchdogs are
Speaker 1: also raising the alarm. Mohanna Revenge your neath e health
Speaker 1: reporter at Politico, thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. I'm alst Ramirez and this has been
Speaker 1: reopening America. Don't forget effort today's big news stories. You
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