WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Philip Bailey 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.720 Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:11.120 was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey, what's up, y'all? 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:14.960 This is Quest Love And as you noticed throughout June, 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:20.640 we are celebrating black musical by releasing an episode every day. 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:24.520 So every day you're even going to hear especially pick 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:28.760 Ls Classic. And on Wednesdays we're dropping a new two 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.879 part episodes with Wayne Brady and James Poyser, both of 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.800 which were filmed in studio, so make sure you also 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.360 watch this on YouTube. Here's a conversation with Philip Bailly 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:49.640 of Earth, Wind and Fire. But don't don't screw up 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:50.760 Philip Billy. 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:58.680 Supreme Supremo, roll call, Suprema su su supreme O, roll call, 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:07.759 Suprema Suprema roll call, Suprema Suprema roll call not confrontational. 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.200 Yeah, I throw no shade. Yeah a Philip and I 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.240 about to fight. Yeah for his opinions on race. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:22.120 Supreme Supreme, roll called, Suprema Son Son Suprema. 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:23.720 Roll My name is Fante. 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.800 Yeah, and this is how I ball. Yeah when I 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.800 go walking. Yeah on the Chinese Wall. 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:38.319 Suprema son Supremia, roll car, Suprema Suck soun Suprema role called. 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:43.160 My name is Sugar, Yeah, Sugar, Steve, Yeah, before you 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:43.560 know it. 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:50.560 Yeah, you'll be on your knee. 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:54.160 Suprema Supreme roll call. 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:55.320 It was my name. 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.800 Yeah, treats Russian as the bomb. Yeah, the Earth, Wind 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:03.840 and Fire didn't play my prom Supreme. 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:10.160 Much Supreme roll Supreme Supreme roll call. 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:14.400 It's like yeah, and mister Bailly, yes please, yeah, I 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.400 love you so much. Yeah, I'm just trying to make you. 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:26.120 See roll Supreme Supreme roll call. 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:30.720 Well I'm here, yeah, and you know yeah that I 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:33.760 can go, yeah, and I can flow. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:38.280 Roll call Supreme Supremo role car. 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:50.160 Supreme roll call, Supremo Supremo roll call, Suprema Suprema roll call, 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:53.000 like real quick, Who's that? 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.679 I totally I was trying to find some one of 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:58.920 my favorite lyrics that he's loving, and you messed it up. 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:01.639 Steve messed up, did the easy level reference and I 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.760 was and I was just trying to make you see. 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:14.280 All right, yeah Steve as basically, I mean, he's done 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:18.239 everything but tattooed the forty five into his chest. You 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.639 had to know that Steve was going to give so 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:22.880 Phil Collins. 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:26.320 Yeah, it was Yeah, this song changed my life, I'm sure, but. 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:28.600 He did the whole album. You could have picked any song. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.959 Really. Yeah, but you know, I think you have a 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.000 deeper well of Earth Wind and Fire and Philip Bailey 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.560 Nowedge than Steve here. You should have left the easy 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:41.760 level to me. Yeah, like the consensus. 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.160 Yeah, you had to beat with that was my song 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:45.920 you got with the I'm with you on the raid. 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:47.640 I'm ready, I'm ready for the Raise to beat. 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:53.000 Yeah. Because yeah, yeah this anyway, uh raise heat? Yeah exactly, 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:59.320 Ladies and gentlemen, my tied my entire goals and dreams 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:03.520 of this plot. Yes, is basically to educate and enlighten 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.440 you all as listeners, But mostly it is basically for 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.080 the five of us to just nerd out a whole 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.480 bunch of questions that only a few of y'all going 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.840 to get when we ask them, as you see during 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.160 the Jimmy Jam episode, in the Ray Parker episode and 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.880 Babyface and Greg fill and gains. But the time has 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.360 come upon us to make our dreams come true. Here 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.960 at QLs. We are truly blessed to be of the 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:31.160 presence of Royalty bar None. I believe that our guest 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:36.400 today is one of the most skilled vocalists of his generations. 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:41.240 And I'm not talented, not gifted, but skilled, absolutely skilled 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.320 of all the silky falsetto vocal gods of seventies funk 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:50.799 soul outfits. Our guest today resides personally and my number 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.640 one slot in my personal list. He's a seven time 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.800 Grammy Award winner, a member of the Songwriters Hall of Fame, 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.239 and a member of one of the most sharis beloved 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:07.080 supergroups and the entire history of music. Yes, even my 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:11.560 hyperbolegue is understated this particular episode. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.840 please give flowers and respect and love to our guest today. 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.279 We've been dying to get on the show since its inception, 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:23.520 the one and only Philip Bailey. Yes, yeah, wow, Well 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:31.640 that was amazing. That was a great interest that I've 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:32.599 been waiting for this moment. 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:39.159 Whenever my self esteem is low, I'll just play Oh man, 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.440 thank you, thank you for doing this. Okay, so why 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:46.160 do you hate raise? No, let's just go ahead and 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:50.240 get No. No, no, please, I gotta start now. I'm 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.120 want to make sure I do this the right way. Well, 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:55.239 thank you for coming on the show man. I'm honored 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.000 to be here. Really, this this is like you. This 0:05:58.120 --> 0:05:59.000 show was tailing me. 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:01.680 Just for you to be straight up and down very cool, 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:06.160 very cool. All right, So I'm quickly started at your beginnings. Yes, 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.480 you have a history that we got to get through everything. 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:15.320 So Denver, Denver, Colorado. What is life like in Denver 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.480 when you're in your formative years? My high city? 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:23.520 Now, you know, amazingly, there was so much talent in 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:27.360 the Denver area, you know. You know, Diane Reeves is 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.000 from from Denver too. I actually brought brought her out 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.440 to Los Angeles. She was in a group that I 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.920 was producing called Free Free Life, Okay, And I had 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.960 to talk to her mother and tell her mother, don't worry. 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.080 I'm gonna take care of her. Everything's gonna be cool. 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.080 She had just gotten out of high school. Really yeah, 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.159 but there's like, there was so much talent. I always 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:51.080 tell people that basically I was just wanted to pack, 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.560 you know, and I got an opportunity. Uh but you know, 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.880 I played drums through school, you know, from the fourth 0:06:57.920 --> 0:06:59.800 grade through through college because I was gonna be per 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.000 and so I was doing gigs and stuff. 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:04.320 You know, you know that scene. 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.400 The regular gigs and then the late night stuff, you know, 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:11.680 and I would sing on one gig and I would 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:13.800 play or sing on another. 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:18.520 Right, yeah, so wait wait you mentioned something and just 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.040 set off many a rabbit hole that's about to happen 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.240 on this show. Does dian Reeves still live in Denver? Yes, 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.520 she does. You want to know something, Okay, the very 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.640 first time, the first day that the Roots recorded at 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:37.960 Battery Studio, a tripod quest was in Studio B and 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.520 they were doing a version of Grant Greens down here 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.320 on the ground. They were it was that blue right. 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.840 But the thing was, I never knew, like the technology 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:49.720 was so new at the time to have someone in 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:53.160 a whole nother state singing their vocals. So they made it. 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:58.160 There was something wrong with the whatever communication they were 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:02.400 using for Diane Reeves to sing her right, this is 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:04.280 nineteen ninety three, though, you know what I mean. So 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.480 like she was singing in Denver, like we were like amazed, 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.400 like wow, Trackwalk Questions producing Donna Reeves live at Denver 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.080 and you know that that whole thing. So okay, So 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.080 was this the time you you had this group when 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.000 you were already established phil a Billy or now that 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:23.760 she's like up here like you. 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.560 No, yeah, I was already established. I was already out 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:28.840 in Los Angeles, you know, with the band and every Okay. 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:34.240 Yeah, so yeah, I'll say that Denver isn't the spot 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.319 I think of when I think of usually a lot 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.640 of our our great singers, and especially in the era 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:45.400 of soul, their experience is down south or sometimes Midwest Chicago, 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:49.360 that right, that sort of thing. But how does soul 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:52.160 reach the Mile High City? 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.400 Yeah, well, you know, everybody everybody from the south some 0:08:56.640 --> 0:09:01.560 kind of way, right, right, So basically, you know, all 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:06.040 the blues and jazz and and uh, you know, we 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.040 didn't we didn't have no R and B or jazz 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:10.320 radio stations and stuff. 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:10.559 You know. 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:14.240 Like so I grew up listening to the country and 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:18.800 you know, middle middle country, you know, rock and all 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:23.839 that kind of stuff. Love me some bluegrass and all 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:24.640 that kind of stuff. 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.400 Because I was about to say, because usually people, uh, 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.120 usually earth wind and Fire is the answer for people 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:35.120 when they're in the middle of nowhere America, and earth 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.079 wind and Fire is usually like the one group that 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:42.040 somehow seeps through the system of of you know, radio 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.120 or whatever reaches people. But it's like what does a 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.840 member of Earth Wind and Fire listen to when Earth 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:52.960 Wind and Fire doesn't exist. I'm dousing to you. I'm 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.800 listening to all kind of stuff that you're doing. And no, no, no, 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:57.280 I just met when you were when you were a 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.559 kid growing up, do you remember the first album purchased? 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:05.280 Well, you know, everybody was listening to Jackie Wilson and 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:10.240 and people like that. But I grew up in rummaging 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:16.719 through my friend's mother's music music selections, so, uh, she 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.319 was a jazzer and her boyfriend was a jazz bassist, 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.960 So I grew up listening to you know, straight up jazz, 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.400 you know, straight ahead. Was there a black church experience 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:32.000 in oh yeah, oh yeah, I know. I was raised Catholic, 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.720 but I did. I sang with a group called Echoes 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:39.000 of Youth and uh in Denver, and uh, you know 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:43.080 there there was a lot of talented singers, but also 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:47.800 the choir director, Mss Joanne Ryan. She also would have 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.680 different entertainers to come and teach us how to sell 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:56.599 a song and you know, just give us input on, 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.640 you know, how to perform and all that stuff. So 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:04.080 you know, actually Pam Greer was in that group with me. Really, yeah, 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.920 what other notable dim rights do we not know that? 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:08.760 Well? 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:13.559 Bill Bill Fazelle okay, oh really yeah, he was, he was, 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.800 he was in We were in the same orchestra, and 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.280 he was the first clear clarinet player. I didn't even 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.600 know he played guitar until until I was out gone 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:25.679 and famous and Natives talking about Bill Fazelle and he's 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:27.920 on guitar and I said, you mean clarinet player first. 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:37.160 Yeah, okay, So how does now I'm thinking, like again, 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.640 the way we are today with technology, you know, I 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.680 can know of a soulful singer in Indian like two seconds. 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:49.440 But how does word how does word even spread about 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:54.000 who or what you do that gets the attention of 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.440 I assume that your was earth winder Fire, your first 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:58.480 professional group. 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:02.000 Or well first recording professional group, because you know, like 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.760 back then there were clubs. So I started playing at 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:07.839 clubs when I was like fifteen and stuff. So you know, 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:09.959 I was performing and all that kind of stuff and 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.320 traveling and you know, not extensive traveling going to Kansas City, 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:22.240 you know. But a guy named Perry Jones, who yeah, yeah, 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.280 Perry Jones was the one that got that that that 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:31.280 was kind of mentoring our group that that Larry Dunn 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:35.040 was in Friends of Love and Andrew wolf Folk and 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.719 he went out to be the first promotion man for 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:43.360 Warner Brothers. And when he he came back and with 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.400 a with an album that was just white and he 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.280 gave it to us, to me and Carl and the 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:52.040 rest of a bunch of guys, and it was earth 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:53.600 wind Fires first record. 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:55.880 So you were not there for the Warner period. I 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:58.720 wasn't there for the Warner period or the Sweet Sweet 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.360 No can you can you settle the rumor that Bill 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.040 Cosby was the one that No, okay, I'm thinking of 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:11.360 Charles Stephane, Bill. No, no, no, Bill. Now, let's talk 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.760 about Bill Cosby for a little while. He had a 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:19.600 history before his history anyway. No, it was Bill express 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:25.640 yourself Charles all right, but uh, Sweet Sweetback is uh 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:32.120 Melvin he was, and that's what they said, right, So 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.920 was connected to Charles, okay, and he was connected to 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:40.040 Sweet Sweet Back right somewhere. I'm getting it all mixed up. 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.599 So well, you know, Jim Brown is part of the 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:48.880 history of the Fire really because he was actually managing 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.920 the band for a minute before before I got in 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:57.640 it Jim Brown, Yeah, Jim and and then Bill Uh 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.640 Ruffalo and Cavallo, you know kind of they they actually 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.560 paid him a little bit to you know, get the band. 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.559 Oh really, Yeah, So Rufblo and Cavallo were a thing 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:11.000 even in the early seventies. 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:15.240 Yeah, because they you know, they used to run clubs 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.760 and all that kind of stuff together before they actually 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.800 moved out to Los Angeles. 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:22.920 I always wanted to know what their story was, right, 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.760 and Ruffalo Cavallo they were princes managers. 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.080 Yeah, they were our managers. And that that was the 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.960 Perry Jones Hoo hook up because Perry Jones was actually 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.920 what you know, was introduced to Prince. Prince is the 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:41.680 one that that turned him on him on to Cavala 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.400 Ruffalo because Prince wanted to do what Earth onony Fire 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:46.400 was doing, and so he said, I want to meet 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:48.680 those guys that managed Earth onony Fire. 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.440 I had heard that that Verdin was supposed to produce 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.720 Princess Ars. Was that had you ever heard anything about Like, No, 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.520 I didn't. I didn't hear that. His name came up 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.080 in like a wishless for the uh for the label. 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:06.320 So Perry Junes, like I always from Renowlum credits always 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:10.640 wondered would he always introduce your shows for something? 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.680 You know, one thing is just leading into the other. 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:19.160 And uh, Perry did that and and it happened to 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:23.400 be on that Gratitude album. Okay, so that's what actually 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:28.040 just gave him that that fame. Okay, yeah, because he 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:29.120 didn't do it all the time. 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.040 Oh okay, I see. So so you said that Larry 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.680 Done and Andrew Wolfolk was there. 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.400 Yeah, they were in bed Yeah, in my band, right, 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.360 So Larry's also from Denver or Denver yep. 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.800 Oh, I never knew that. I never knew that. So 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:45.560 how did you guys? 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.560 Okay, well, we were we were in school together, you know, 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.240 and Larry was in the ninth grade and I was 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.040 in the eleventh grade. We were playing in the band together, 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:02.520 and uh, andrew family moved to Denver there he was 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.120 a service brat. So we had we had a group 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.960 that was playing in clubs and colleges and all that 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:09.600 kind of stuff. 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.320 What type of music we would do everything? 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.480 Actually, we would do Top forty, but then we'd also 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:20.920 do Carol Kinge. We'd do Three Dog Night, Rare Earth. 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.200 We you know, we would you know, we could do 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.120 pretty much anything that was on the radio. Okay, so 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:33.160 pretty much early seventies, well sixties stuff, you know. Oh 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.000 and then I had a you know, i'd do quartet 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.160 stuff where you know, it was Jimmy Smith kind of stuff, 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.040 you know, because we'd have bands where you know, this 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.200 guy named al Hammond Moore who would play, you know, 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:50.280 play the bass with you know, with his feet, you know, 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:55.200 right right on on the V three and I was 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.440 either playing drums or or singing in it. 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.520 Okay, So I was gonna wait till you guys got 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:07.000 to Columbia, but I might as well ask, now, how 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:10.800 many octaves is your voice? Because of course you're you're 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.439 your golden gift is in your fellow stuff. Right. 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:22.960 Actually, I'm a baritone. I studied operatic baritone in school. Yeah, 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.000 in German and stuff. I remember that stuff. 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:27.320 Yeah. 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.800 So, but I grew up listening to you know, uh 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:37.359 Seavon and dining in Washington off because you hear that 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.720 stuff at the house, and I kind of mimicked those 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:46.520 voices because of the passion, you know, the lyrical sense. 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:52.720 But then growing up, I would, you know, I would 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.560 I could sing, you know, whatever genre I was. We 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:01.280 were doing on stage and stuff. So I was playing 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.240 a gig and a teacher from one of the colleges 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.199 was there and said, wow, you have an amazing falsetto. 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:13.320 I said, huh, that's what that is. I didn't even 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:17.120 know what a falsetto was. So what what is your 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.960 daily routine? Is this one of those like, oh, national 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.720 gift from God? Or are you Seth Riggs? You know 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.680 I did study with Seth? Really yeah, I did study 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:33.159 with Seth. And you know, Seth can only he can 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:38.360 only teach what's there, you know, but you know everyone 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:43.720 that has taught with study with him gets get something. 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:49.320 You know, how long is this average session? How long 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:50.520 does it do you just go with you? 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.160 You wouldn't go probably past two hours, but he would 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:58.760 just go with you until you you know, until you 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.679 know there was a real breakthrough. I remember when Stevie 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.240 was studying with him and then that song came out 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:11.240 and he goes, oh, I am saying for tomorrow. I 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:15.000 was like this, like what oh, But that was like 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.960 right around the time he was studying with with Seth. 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.440 How how does word about Seth Riggs get around because 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:27.120 for listeners that study with them really so seth riggs. Uh. 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.000 For you q l US listeners out there, it's pretty 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:36.800 much the ve go to standard of vocal vocal culture, 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:42.200 probably most famously his his Michael Jackson warm up sessions 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:47.119 are on YouTube just a Google Michael Jackson Sethwriggs, of 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.280 which there are various exercises. No no no no no 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:54.480 no no no no no, Like what what what's what 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.920 is the purpose of doing those scales? But with different annunciations, 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.840 Well you could, well you can hear you know, where 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.440 you're speaking, where your voice is speaking from, you know, 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.920 and he just connects you know that with singing. You know, 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:14.600 it just shows you where where to place different things 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:21.560 and the that goes, it's showing you how to get 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:25.440 it to your head, your head voice, you know. Yeah, 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.560 because you gotta. If you do that, you have to 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.159 you have to go. There's no way other you can't go. 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:39.159 If you're you can't do anything but go to your head. Okay, 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.440 So they're very various. So for various ranges, you have 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.520 to pick up a certain body. Part two because I 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.240 always heard, like teachers in my school say, like sing 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.959 from your diet, right, But I always find myself when 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.160 I'm naturally singing what I always sing from my throat 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:56.400 and they always say that's wrong. 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.280 Yeah, but how you hear your talk? You're speaking voice? 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:01.960 Like what you just right there? You spoke from down here. 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:08.119 So but is it natural instinct for you to do 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.679 the right thing or like it's it's natural. It's very 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.639 natural now, but back then you were. 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:16.960 Yeah, but you know, back then, if you if you 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:18.919 lose your voice a few times and all that kind 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:22.080 of stuff, obviously you know you're you're you're singing from 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:25.360 the wrong place or you know, or straining the door 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:26.720 doing certain things. 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.080 For Jesus Christ, I didn't even ask, like what if 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:32.240 your horse were night and you can't do reasons or 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:33.600 just can't do it. 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:38.920 That happened last year, Yeah, in Vegas, man, for I 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:41.840 was like, there was you know, there was this curtain 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:45.800 on the stage that they hadn't taken down for eons 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.000 and they and they they lowered it and brought it 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:51.120 back up, and they said there was dust all over 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:54.800 the instruments and stuff. You know, that's really fine, got 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:59.680 into my my you know, my voice, and man, three nights, 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.880 really man, I couldn't sing. I couldn't sing too much 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:05.119 in nothing at all. 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.680 Okay, so is I'm so glad we have a singer. 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:15.240 Singer on the show always okay, I always kind of side. 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.359 I'm a straight up musician. I'd never consider myself a 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:21.000 singer or whatever. So I mean, I'm respecting the fact 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:27.320 that singing is an instrument, but having dealt having dealt 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:34.080 with the demands of Wreatha Franklin and Luther vandros REITHA. 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:41.080 Franklin famously, she can't go into any building that's under yeah, 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:44.719 under seventy eight degrees. So whenever she would visit late 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:50.880 night because we had a universal uh no, she would 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:54.359 have these like these four dudes that pretty much Steve 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:59.320 Harvey Detroit pimp dress looking cats, but they would have 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:03.400 like secrets service, like earpieces and everything. They would come 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:07.520 in around ten pm the night before and they would 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:13.920 rotate sitting by the master thermometer thing like one in 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:16.440 the basement, literally so that if someone comes in like 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:20.040 it's not as hell you can't do it. So literally, 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:24.840 anytime Aretha Franklin was everyone on the Tonight Show, a 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:27.840 guy would come in and do three hours sitting by 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.720 wherever the master thermostat is for the entire six flour 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:34.760 to make sure that no one touches it. Trinity, I 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:39.639 want that happening for me. But this is what I'm 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:43.680 really asking. And Luther Vangels also famously like would make 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:47.520 all air conditioning off in any stadium that he's ever 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:52.879 been in. I just want to know. It's part of 0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:57.399 that psychosomatic No, it's definitely not. That's real. It's definitely not. 0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:00.879 It's like I try, you know, I try. 0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:04.920 But I laid down, like on a couch like that 0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:08.040 at a gig and stuff, and the air conditioning was on, 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:10.920 you know, and I started to tell him, y'all, you 0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:13.960 should probably turn it off and stuff. And I laid 0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:16.320 down and putting my jacket over my head and I 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:18.960 did go to sleep. I couldn't sing for three days. 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.960 It's the it's the free on, you know that that 0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:28.520 messes with the vocal with vocals, some vocal cords, some 0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:31.240 people some people can you know, can do it. But 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:33.119 it's the same with me. Like when you get on 0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:36.640 that tour bus or whatever. My my the back bay 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:40.399 is a it's it's a sauna, all right. 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:43.399 That's also the real reason why there was a Griffin 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:47.720 Doordan slndering bus between Tarika and I because Tarka's doctor Africa. 0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:51.400 Like and a smoke box and hot box. It's crazy. 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.000 Yeah, so it's it's like, you know, it has to 0:24:55.080 --> 0:24:57.760 be one hundred degrees to do that, so that that 0:24:57.920 --> 0:24:59.320 is not psychosomatic. That's why. 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:01.920 So let me ask this question, and do you have 0:25:02.000 --> 0:25:04.480 a daily routine of maintenance for you? 0:25:04.920 --> 0:25:06.760 Not really? Not really? 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:08.080 Do you the dairy? 0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:09.280 Yeah? 0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:11.280 Yeah, so you know none of that stuff. 0:25:11.359 --> 0:25:13.879 I tell you what I cannot do, and and I 0:25:14.040 --> 0:25:18.760 tried it a couple of times. Coca Cola. No, it's 0:25:18.880 --> 0:25:20.080 kryptonite for me. 0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:25.040 I can't I can't even I can't say any I 0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:29.159 can't sing a note. I can't sing. Ah. Really, it 0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:33.880 just goes no soda, nothing, no soda, just Coca cola. 0:25:35.840 --> 0:25:37.880 Did they know that at the time commercials? 0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:40.800 You know, I was doing this gig outside and it 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:44.320 was hot, and you know, somebody was drinking co cola 0:25:44.359 --> 0:25:46.359 and I just needed something to drink and I grabbed some. 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:53.480 Man. It was done. There was no singing whatsoever not 0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:54.120 that night. 0:25:54.960 --> 0:25:58.960 And so it happened again, and I just thought, okay 0:25:59.440 --> 0:26:03.719 that you know what the heck, same thing happened. 0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:12.880 Couldn't sing a word. Well, since we're here already, I'm 0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:17.560 gonna just skip two two reasons. Do you regret that 0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:22.080 the live version of reasons is our standard for what 0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:24.600 we expect you to do to the day you die, 0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:31.280 Like if you don't do those exact andrew together everything right, 0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:35.720 Like is there a night where you don't reach that? 0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:38.359 And it's like the audience is kind of side eye 0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:40.800 and you like before your answers. 0:26:40.840 --> 0:26:42.840 Can I tell you when I was probably like maybe 0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:44.879 twelve or thirteen when I first heard that, and I 0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:47.560 could hit those notes then, and then when my voice cracked, 0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:51.760 I was so upset I could not It was like 0:26:51.840 --> 0:26:53.719 it was that song in Prints on the Most Beautiful 0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:54.959 Girl in the World when he hits that high note 0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:55.320 at the end. 0:26:55.600 --> 0:26:57.000 I used to be able to hit both of those notes. 0:26:57.040 --> 0:27:01.520 Not no more. I was so upset, up, so upset. 0:27:01.720 --> 0:27:05.800 So you set such a high goal for yourself that 0:27:05.960 --> 0:27:07.520 you now want to have to live up to. 0:27:08.960 --> 0:27:12.600 Uh, you know, you know what people come to hear, 0:27:12.760 --> 0:27:16.800 so you know I always do that, even if I'm 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:18.960 just gonna go off and then at live do some 0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:19.600 other stuff. 0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:22.919 Okay, I'll do that, all right, all right? 0:27:23.119 --> 0:27:25.040 Got a dumb question somebody told me to ask you this, 0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:28.880 and I'm gonna ask the room, what are the reasons. 0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:32.560 Interesting enough that song? 0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:35.399 Let's let's talk about that song yourself bit because you 0:27:35.520 --> 0:27:37.960 know that, you know the lifestyle of you know, the 0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:40.560 road dogs and all that kind of stuff. Memory used 0:27:40.600 --> 0:27:43.600 to have a conversation about, you know, infidelity and stuff, 0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:47.760 and so you know, well, I'm gonna go all the 0:27:47.800 --> 0:27:51.399 way back gets a little bit. We go into we Land, 0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:57.320 I think it was in Philly, yay, and and there's 0:27:57.359 --> 0:28:01.879 this there's this really really fine female. Okay, that that 0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:05.600 that is like everybody's looking at when we come off 0:28:05.680 --> 0:28:07.920 the plane. Now, at that time, we would take a 0:28:07.960 --> 0:28:11.680 whole floor in a hotel and stuff and have security 0:28:11.720 --> 0:28:14.119 and all that kind of stuff. So we go to 0:28:14.280 --> 0:28:17.000 the and we would just you know, like if you 0:28:17.119 --> 0:28:21.200 wanted to see somebody, you would just give our road 0:28:21.280 --> 0:28:22.120 manager an eye. 0:28:22.880 --> 0:28:23.119 You know. 0:28:23.359 --> 0:28:29.240 You know, I do not know, so I do not 0:28:29.640 --> 0:28:33.359 get to the hotel. I get to the hotel. The 0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:37.960 ladies at the hotel all right, and you know the 0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:44.240 next day, you know, she makes his phone call and 0:28:44.440 --> 0:28:45.600 she's talking to her guy. 0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:47.080 You know, just like. 0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:49.360 Just like. 0:28:52.240 --> 0:28:55.440 So Marisa having this conversation. So I felt like. 0:28:57.200 --> 0:29:01.480 A deflated and stuff was like, oh so I was 0:29:01.880 --> 0:29:04.800 talking to Maurice. So we had this conversation. So that's 0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:08.800 how we started to write Reasons. Okay, now writing that 0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:13.400 song and then Charles Debney came in with the music 0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:17.920 and stuff. People say that they used that song for 0:29:18.040 --> 0:29:23.840 their wed You're saying you wrote that song without a melody? No, no, 0:29:24.320 --> 0:29:28.720 that's that was we'd already had. We had the music. 0:29:28.920 --> 0:29:29.760 We had the music. 0:29:32.120 --> 0:29:36.120 So you just how do you and Maurice's collaborating on? 0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:36.800 So do you talk? 0:29:36.880 --> 0:29:37.080 It was? 0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:40.240 It was, you know, different all the time. You know, 0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:42.720 it was different all the time, you know, whatever resonated 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:45.480 with you at that time. But that's how Reason was, 0:29:46.200 --> 0:29:50.680 you know, was was was crafted. But basically, you know, 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:53.440 the song says that you know, your reasons were a lie, 0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:56.640 reasons had no pride, you know, love was left aside 0:29:57.320 --> 0:30:00.680 and all this stuff. And people said, are you that 0:30:00.840 --> 0:30:02.200 song reasons for my wedding? 0:30:02.840 --> 0:30:06.240 Oh? My goodness not what did I hear a rumor 0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:09.400 once that someone offered you guys to come perform the 0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:12.960 song at a wedding, and one of you had to reveal, like, 0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:17.440 it's a song about unfair like why, well, you know 0:30:17.560 --> 0:30:18.320 what we do. 0:30:18.640 --> 0:30:22.840 We do some very expensive corporate dates, you know, you know, 0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:28.440 and if someone says to do reasons, I will decline. 0:30:30.520 --> 0:30:31.800 Been specifically for like a love. 0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:34.719 Yeah, if it's for a wedding, if you know, if 0:30:34.720 --> 0:30:37.200 it's if it's your wedding night and you know we're 0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:40.240 doing the music after it, and I won't do I 0:30:40.360 --> 0:30:41.960 probably I don't want to do after the lover is 0:30:42.000 --> 0:30:42.680 gone either. 0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:44.520 Right, yeah, you know. 0:30:50.360 --> 0:30:55.480 Your wedding night, wedding night, your wedding night, and you know, 0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:57.000 like this is your big party. 0:30:57.480 --> 0:31:01.600 No, you know, I'm not on singing all that. Ye wait, 0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:04.560 why is it that all of our quote, our songs, 0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:09.239 our side chicks, sweet thing? I just someone just hit 0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:15.360 me saving all my love? Did I know? Yeah? She 0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:15.720 say it. 0:31:15.760 --> 0:31:16.120 And now. 0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:23.280 But what's the world You got your family? Oh? No, God, 0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:29.000 and they need you to she knows you know what 0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:32.160 it is, dude. Black people listen to the lyrics. 0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:36.040 No, no, I think we translate them differently in our head, 0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:38.400 Like we listened because we sing along, But then somewhere 0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:39.920 in the translation is the feeling. 0:31:40.240 --> 0:31:43.240 The feeling feeling Maxwell said had the same thing with 0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:46.240 pretty Wings, where people were saying they wanted him to 0:31:46.400 --> 0:31:48.560 like do that at his wedding and so many people 0:31:48.600 --> 0:31:50.840 come and say, that's our wedding song. And he was 0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:52.800 just like, yo, this is a song about a breakup, 0:31:52.920 --> 0:31:55.360 but wait it is. Yeah, pretty Wings is totally about 0:31:55.360 --> 0:31:57.560 the break See. I thought, you're pretty wings so you 0:31:57.600 --> 0:31:59.520 can fly away, you're about to get out of here, 0:32:01.720 --> 0:32:05.080 something like pretty slow, Yeah, pretty means. 0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:06.640 The breakup song. I did not know that. 0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:10.240 Yeah, I played it all the time and part deal 0:32:10.440 --> 0:32:12.960 like it's it's a feeling, and he was just like, listen, 0:32:13.040 --> 0:32:14.520 if that's what it means to that person. 0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:16.959 You know, it's pretty arrogant of you to say, oh, 0:32:17.040 --> 0:32:18.680 that's not with it, but if that's how they feel 0:32:18.680 --> 0:32:22.040 about it, I didn't do it because I want I 0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:26.560 wouldn't want to jinx your relationship. Wow, I thought, I. 0:32:26.640 --> 0:32:28.040 Just want to say, we still don't know the reasons, 0:32:28.080 --> 0:32:30.960 but the conversation I'm looking I'm sitting here reading the lyrics, 0:32:31.040 --> 0:32:33.240 like the reasons that we feared that Even. 0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:35.960 Then, I was gonna say, most Earth Wind and Fire 0:32:36.040 --> 0:32:41.840 slow songs really don't deal with besides be ever wonderful, 0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:44.880 wonderful man, I'm thinking like all, even like I would 0:32:44.920 --> 0:32:48.360 consider Devotion a slow song even though it has nothing 0:32:48.440 --> 0:32:50.320 to do with a romantic relationship. 0:32:50.480 --> 0:32:52.520 But it's really slow, so it is not really slow. 0:32:52.720 --> 0:32:54.840 That's I don't consider that. It's not a ballot. 0:32:55.360 --> 0:32:59.280 Well it's yeah, it's it's not required about the album 0:32:59.400 --> 0:33:05.400 version of Devotion I consider a slow song, whereas I'll 0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:09.760 DJ the live for it, like as a jam. But yeah, 0:33:09.960 --> 0:33:14.600 that's so weird. Okay, so can you how are you officially? 0:33:15.120 --> 0:33:18.120 Uh well wait, what what were your impressions of Earth 0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:19.760 Wind and Fire when you handed that record? 0:33:20.400 --> 0:33:22.960 I was blown away, first of all, because we didn't 0:33:23.120 --> 0:33:28.040 didn't have any pictures of them, so I couldn't conceive 0:33:28.160 --> 0:33:33.640 of them being an African American group. Yeah, because I 0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:37.120 had never heard anything like that ever before. And this 0:33:37.280 --> 0:33:38.840 is the first this is their Warner Brothers, this is 0:33:38.840 --> 0:33:42.600 the Warner Brothers stuff, and uh, you know, like I'm gonna, 0:33:43.000 --> 0:33:45.280 I couldn't have I couldn't imagine what they looked like 0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:51.360 because I'd never been introduced to afrocentric you know, music 0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:56.440 and all that kind of stuff, and and you know, 0:33:58.240 --> 0:34:01.320 it was no very much so very much so, I mean, 0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:05.240 and it was esoteric and you know, I was like, whoa, 0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:08.719 what is this? And then there was a merge of 0:34:08.840 --> 0:34:13.400 all of of the different genres in the music, and 0:34:13.520 --> 0:34:15.279 I'm like, what these guys look like? 0:34:16.360 --> 0:34:16.560 You know? 0:34:16.840 --> 0:34:20.680 And then Perry brought them to Denver on a promotional 0:34:20.760 --> 0:34:24.840 tour and that's when Verdin came down to the club, 0:34:25.520 --> 0:34:29.840 saw me and and Carl play and stuff, and we 0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:34.680 actually opened the show for them, and on their promotional tour, 0:34:35.160 --> 0:34:39.120 and I met Maurice on the elevator. Okay, yeah, he 0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:43.879 had coconut oil. That's the first time I never knew. 0:34:44.000 --> 0:34:46.880 I never heard. I never smelled no oils, and I 0:34:47.000 --> 0:34:51.840 just I smelled coconuts. You know. It's like yeah, and 0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:57.399 he had a cowboy hat on. You know. Wow, So your. 0:34:57.320 --> 0:34:59.200 First tour or whatever you went on, your first tour 0:34:59.280 --> 0:35:01.759 must have been pretty mind blowing. To see how the 0:35:01.880 --> 0:35:02.200 rest of. 0:35:02.320 --> 0:35:08.040 Like mind blowing? Wait before it. See, the thing is 0:35:08.160 --> 0:35:10.400 that if you're not involved with Warner era Earth, when 0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:13.279 and fired who was like a moment of truth. 0:35:13.480 --> 0:35:15.759 I swore that was you singing no, No, that was 0:35:15.880 --> 0:35:18.640 that was That was the first group. All the first 0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:22.400 group was around Maurice's age, ten years older than us. 0:35:22.719 --> 0:35:26.560 So come a Columbia time, he totally got the whole band. 0:35:26.800 --> 0:35:27.399 The whole band. 0:35:27.480 --> 0:35:30.440 It was only they left, and it was only him 0:35:30.480 --> 0:35:34.880 and Verdein and and so. In that time period they 0:35:34.960 --> 0:35:40.080 had met me through the Denver experience and I was 0:35:40.160 --> 0:35:43.759 out in Los Angeles. I was a musical director of 0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:46.640 percussions for a band called the Stove All Sisters, which 0:35:46.760 --> 0:35:53.040 was yeah, and so I would play and rehearse the 0:35:53.120 --> 0:35:56.040 band and stuff, so they knew I could sing and stuff. 0:35:57.239 --> 0:36:00.800 They broke up and I was going to send, you know, 0:36:01.280 --> 0:36:04.279 my wife at the time, Janet, and my first son, Sir, 0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:08.760 back to Denver he had just been born. And Maurice 0:36:08.840 --> 0:36:10.520 and Vernein came over and said, do you want to 0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:13.520 be in the band? And I said, on one condition. 0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:15.640 They said what I said, I want to be in 0:36:15.680 --> 0:36:16.360 the best band in. 0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:17.080 The whole world. 0:36:18.000 --> 0:36:18.280 Wow. 0:36:19.600 --> 0:36:21.879 And they looked at each other and they said, you're 0:36:22.880 --> 0:36:29.839 that's a mighty demand. Then we ate oatmeal for next Wait. 0:36:29.920 --> 0:36:31.879 Every time we thought we was going on the road, 0:36:32.200 --> 0:36:34.000 we'd get ready to get we'd get in the car 0:36:34.120 --> 0:36:36.439 and be on the way and some of them somebody 0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:41.120 would call and they'd go, yeah, it's counselor. I was 0:36:41.200 --> 0:36:44.440 gonna God, So I was thinking, I was, I was, 0:36:44.600 --> 0:36:47.440 I was debating on if I should go to you know, 0:36:47.760 --> 0:36:50.560 to some training school or whatever. And the guy I 0:36:50.680 --> 0:36:53.680 was living with said, look, either you're gonna, you know, 0:36:53.920 --> 0:36:55.919 do that. Are you gonna do this. If you're gonna 0:36:55.920 --> 0:36:58.080 do this, go back in there and you know, practice 0:36:58.080 --> 0:36:59.680 your music and stuff. 0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:03.239 But that happened. That was our testing grounds. And then 0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:04.440 you know, once we got on. 0:37:04.520 --> 0:37:07.480 The road, we got out here, we got to Philly, 0:37:09.040 --> 0:37:12.720 and then is that the infamous booing night yep staring 0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:14.160 out to Philly got to Philly. 0:37:14.960 --> 0:37:15.319 The story. 0:37:15.400 --> 0:37:18.640 We got to Philly uptown and all the do wop 0:37:18.719 --> 0:37:21.759 groups and stuff, and we had on you know, we 0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:24.960 had on tights and all that kind of stuff different 0:37:26.000 --> 0:37:29.640 And so then we had that colimba and and Rilly 0:37:29.719 --> 0:37:31.440 Loss playing the soprano saxophone. 0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:32.560 He ain't never seen none of that. 0:37:33.000 --> 0:37:35.040 And so we got on the stage and the whoo 0:37:35.239 --> 0:37:38.399 y'all stink, you know, it's you know, throwing little stuff 0:37:38.480 --> 0:37:40.640 up there. More he told us all to sit down 0:37:40.719 --> 0:37:46.399 on the ground and the lotus position, so we all, yeah, 0:37:46.840 --> 0:37:50.359 oh yeah in Philly after uptown, So we just sat, 0:37:50.480 --> 0:37:53.360 he said, and just be still and so just and 0:37:53.520 --> 0:37:54.279 just stare at him. 0:37:55.320 --> 0:37:56.239 So so we did. 0:37:56.360 --> 0:37:59.440 We in Philly after uptown, sitting in the lotus position 0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:04.520 with you know, with tights on, you know, you know, 0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:07.160 and staring at the ordinance as they curse at us. 0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:10.480 And they kept on and they kept only kept on, 0:38:11.040 --> 0:38:12.919 and then they calmed down a little bit and Maury 0:38:12.960 --> 0:38:14.040 started playing that colimba. 0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:17.920 How did y'all at them? Man? 0:38:18.000 --> 0:38:20.920 We at least ten minutes they they Then then he 0:38:21.000 --> 0:38:24.600 started playing the colimber and Ronnie Larve started improvising over 0:38:24.680 --> 0:38:28.600 that colimber. Larry Dunn went to that keyboard started playing 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:33.560 them chords and we run into a rhythm. When we 0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:37.279 got finished with that show, it was nothing like it 0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:38.879 gives me chills to this day. 0:38:39.440 --> 0:38:41.400 Really we were so it. 0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:47.640 Was like Philly Love, Earth Wind and Fire. They was 0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:50.400 the It was the first that was and we got 0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:53.719 it was so monumental that when we got done, we 0:38:53.840 --> 0:38:55.680 went back to the hotel where he said, we're gonna 0:38:55.680 --> 0:38:58.440 have a meeting, you know, and we all got together 0:38:58.440 --> 0:39:01.880 and he's and we all recognized something special had happened 0:39:01.960 --> 0:39:05.080 that night. You know, we all recognize it and we 0:39:05.280 --> 0:39:07.680 just have to affirm it. You know, he said they're 0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:10.719 gonna eat either love you or hate you, but they 0:39:11.080 --> 0:39:11.440 can't be. 0:39:11.480 --> 0:39:18.160 In the middle. Wow. Side note, I am trying to 0:39:18.400 --> 0:39:25.799 buy the town. Really yeah, I've been you know, that's 0:39:25.920 --> 0:39:31.839 that's one of my life goals with Sirah Live Nation. 0:39:32.200 --> 0:39:33.120 Shout out to Sorgy. 0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:35.239 Oh before they get it, don't partner, just take it off. 0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:42.440 It's not the man he is, but he's the man 0:39:42.520 --> 0:39:46.239 the company. No, it's still there, control on the rock. 0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:49.919 It's still it's still, it's still there. It's still a shell. 0:39:50.239 --> 0:39:53.160 And you know it's it's been The Uptown has been 0:39:53.200 --> 0:39:58.480 closed since eighty nine. I think, oh yeah, like thirty 0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:00.920 years now, that's a full I. 0:40:00.920 --> 0:40:02.279 Was just thinking I was a full circle moment. I 0:40:02.360 --> 0:40:05.520 remember Fourth of July what was that ten years ago 0:40:05.600 --> 0:40:08.160 when earth went and fire came to Philly and you 0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:12.879 guys did the curation for the welcome American things. Yeah, 0:40:12.960 --> 0:40:14.600 and it was just like a full circle moment of 0:40:14.680 --> 0:40:16.280 seeing them after. 0:40:17.800 --> 0:40:23.000 So okay with the first record, First of all, can 0:40:23.080 --> 0:40:26.600 you please tell us about Charles. 0:40:26.640 --> 0:40:31.279 Stephanie and we had emotions on the show like a 0:40:31.320 --> 0:40:33.800 while back, and they were kind of really yeah, we 0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:35.000 had them in La. 0:40:35.040 --> 0:40:38.880 But the closest thing thing I could say about Charles 0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:46.160 is Quincy Jones. You know that type of person. But 0:40:46.280 --> 0:40:50.880 he was also like just such a humble he was. 0:40:51.080 --> 0:41:01.040 He was an orchestrator and the ranger, vibist, pianist, ah, 0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:07.880 and you know, a songwriter and and a lover of 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:14.000 his family, you know, and a teacher and a very 0:41:14.200 --> 0:41:19.920 very humble, understated person. And uh, all he did was 0:41:20.120 --> 0:41:23.800 just make music and and all those sounds and stuff 0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:27.360 before everything got multi tamborled and stuff. 0:41:27.920 --> 0:41:31.160 He would record note for note. 0:41:32.600 --> 0:41:37.200 Then you know, do the octaves change him, harmonize him, 0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:40.800 all that harmony stuff that that was on since before 0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:43.440 you know they got they got multi times. 0:41:43.719 --> 0:41:47.080 Say you have to play one at the time. I 0:41:47.640 --> 0:41:53.359 have one of my life goals was try to find 0:41:53.400 --> 0:41:57.240 the all about love stems to see how he crafted 0:41:57.680 --> 0:42:00.680 the interlude that comes at the end, all right, that's 0:42:00.719 --> 0:42:03.360 eventually celebrate. Can you speak on that for a second. 0:42:04.520 --> 0:42:11.520 How the the ending of right? So basically that's his 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:15.400 plate backwards right. I realized that now because on the 0:42:15.520 --> 0:42:20.400 Master rel when I heard it, I was like, oh, 0:42:20.440 --> 0:42:23.719 this is celebrate And then I realized that, Okay, you 0:42:23.800 --> 0:42:26.320 guys must have just played it, but it still sounds 0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:32.680 the same, like back and forth. Okay, So initially he 0:42:32.880 --> 0:42:35.440 was demoing what would have been Celebrate, which is on 0:42:35.600 --> 0:42:40.320 the Gratitude album. Can you describe what the what's the 0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:45.279 jamming process or how does a seed of a song 0:42:45.360 --> 0:42:49.080 or an idea form into Like do you guys take 0:42:49.160 --> 0:42:52.359 rough ideas to Charles and then he'll stretch it out 0:42:52.360 --> 0:42:54.680 because I've heard I mean, in the reissues of a 0:42:54.719 --> 0:42:57.960 lot of these albums, you'll hear super rough demos of 0:42:59.320 --> 0:43:03.080 of Shining Star and various earth Wind and Fire songs 0:43:03.080 --> 0:43:06.440 when they're just like jamming ideas. 0:43:06.280 --> 0:43:12.719 Right well, like on that song Charles had really if 0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:15.759 I remember right, there was a lot of that song 0:43:15.840 --> 0:43:20.840 that was already there before me and Maurice started writing 0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:27.200 lyrics and stuff and everything that that he would bring 0:43:27.520 --> 0:43:31.520 Maurice and Charles had. They they worked really really well together, 0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:38.000 and al McKay was the key was a lot really Yeah, 0:43:38.280 --> 0:43:42.520 It's just like I could take a complicated whatever, complicated 0:43:43.040 --> 0:43:49.400 musical you know, piece or passage and make it groove 0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:53.960 really whatever whatever, because you know, that's a lot of 0:43:54.080 --> 0:43:57.520 music going on right there. You know, all those changes 0:43:57.640 --> 0:43:58.640 and all that kind of stuff. 0:43:58.760 --> 0:44:03.560 But you can so you feel that album. Ka is 0:44:03.600 --> 0:44:06.600 a guitar player, was the he was someone of the 0:44:06.680 --> 0:44:09.800 epicenter or you know, he's the lock. He was. He 0:44:09.960 --> 0:44:13.560 was a lock because he he played with you know, 0:44:13.719 --> 0:44:17.160 watch hundred and third Street, and he was an R 0:44:17.280 --> 0:44:20.080 and B keing. He just. 0:44:21.560 --> 0:44:25.719 Out even wanted to be complicated, you know. He he 0:44:26.080 --> 0:44:32.040 was about the funk and so whatever idea that Maurice 0:44:32.080 --> 0:44:36.000 would have filters through him, filtered through him and he 0:44:36.080 --> 0:44:41.320 would lock it up with with with Verdein and the drummer. 0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:44.719 You know, if Maurice wasn't playing, because if Maurice is playing, 0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:47.279 it was a lot simple, simpler because Maurice pocket had 0:44:47.320 --> 0:44:49.719 a pocket, you know, so in. 0:44:49.760 --> 0:44:52.279 The studio, Maurice would play drums most of the time. Yeah, 0:44:52.320 --> 0:44:56.080 Maurice is playing on that okay, wow. Yeah. He played 0:44:56.160 --> 0:45:01.360 on most of the stuff until until fred Eddy, until 0:45:01.960 --> 0:45:06.320 Ralph was initially in the Last Days in Time, was 0:45:06.480 --> 0:45:09.960 Ralph drumming on that album. Then Freddy came along. 0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:14.240 For Maurice on the on the records, it was Maurice 0:45:15.560 --> 0:45:22.520 until Freddy came. Ralph did play on That's the Way 0:45:22.560 --> 0:45:28.279 of the World. Okay, Okay, what was the relationship with 0:45:28.320 --> 0:45:36.040 Clive Davis, Like just very supportive and and unlike his 0:45:36.280 --> 0:45:40.200 experience with under like unlike a lot of the experiences 0:45:40.239 --> 0:45:41.760 that I've heard with other artists. 0:45:43.000 --> 0:45:49.200 He never we didn't have those basically the only thing 0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:50.360 you're talking about blessed wat. 0:45:50.160 --> 0:45:54.279 And he didn't he didn't and he didn't get into 0:45:54.360 --> 0:45:56.600 the artistic thing. He didn't get into the art. 0:45:57.239 --> 0:46:01.160 But you guys were the blueprint of art, right, that's the. 0:46:01.200 --> 0:46:03.920 Thing like get into you know, like he likes this 0:46:04.080 --> 0:46:06.120 song and getting this da da da da. He was 0:46:06.239 --> 0:46:08.400 just you know, Marris's give him the record when he 0:46:08.440 --> 0:46:08.960 got finished. 0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:12.680 But how okay. But the thing is is that the 0:46:12.840 --> 0:46:16.520 legacy of Clive Davis is okay, quote the greatest ears 0:46:16.680 --> 0:46:19.920 in music or whatever. His his mantra is like I 0:46:19.960 --> 0:46:23.319 have the best ears of music. You guys, though, were 0:46:23.440 --> 0:46:33.560 so artsy, like literally reintroducing or establishing afrocentristic afro jazz, 0:46:35.080 --> 0:46:37.480 but fil but still with the pop sens like you 0:46:37.560 --> 0:46:41.200 guys were so pop but so black at the money 0:46:41.239 --> 0:46:46.279 ass hooks. Cause yeah, so like what you know, would 0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:49.320 like the whole idea of like don't boris gets the 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:52.080 course and all that stuff like, who's the disciplinarian that 0:46:52.280 --> 0:46:53.479 knew Oh. 0:46:53.640 --> 0:46:57.960 Okay, we're going all over the place. Really yeah, he 0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:02.120 had total a time me. He just you know he 0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:06.399 because he his background too was we worked at Chess 0:47:06.440 --> 0:47:11.040 Records in the in the in the advertisement, uh commercial department, 0:47:11.400 --> 0:47:13.960 and so like they would have contests with all the 0:47:14.000 --> 0:47:20.480 different writers, and Charles Stepney was arranger and he named 0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:23.239 Maurice Rooney tunes. That's how we you know, that's what 0:47:23.440 --> 0:47:27.400 we all call him Maurice Rooney because Maurice had this 0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:33.080 sense of getting getting a hook. So he was the 0:47:33.239 --> 0:47:37.320 hook man definitely. And he also believed that the hooks 0:47:37.320 --> 0:47:40.200 shouldn't just be in the choruses, but they should be 0:47:40.280 --> 0:47:43.120 in the music itself, you know, and in the grooves 0:47:43.160 --> 0:47:44.080 and all that kind of stuff. 0:47:44.160 --> 0:47:51.800 So so how did you guys avoid not that I 0:47:51.880 --> 0:47:53.919 thought that there was cliche one on one and sold 0:47:54.040 --> 0:47:57.080 music in the early seventies, Like you're on my mind 0:47:57.120 --> 0:47:59.880 all the time. I can't stop thinking about you, like 0:48:00.000 --> 0:48:02.520 this just the typical rhyme scheme that is in every 0:48:03.239 --> 0:48:05.320 I mean, Motown basically wrote the book on that. But 0:48:06.040 --> 0:48:10.480 how like you guys are talking about mysticism and spirituality 0:48:10.760 --> 0:48:16.719 and and things that aren't necessarily you know, day to 0:48:16.840 --> 0:48:19.440 day conversation. Yeah, what were you smoking? 0:48:21.800 --> 0:48:21.840 No? 0:48:22.040 --> 0:48:26.200 But like how would you is it books that you 0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:28.440 guys would read. And then Maurice was reading a lot 0:48:28.480 --> 0:48:31.359 of stuff. He was reading a lot of stuff. And because. 0:48:32.880 --> 0:48:37.160 He had traveled with Ramsey Lewis and they had traveled 0:48:37.160 --> 0:48:40.800 to the Orient, different things like that, you know, and 0:48:40.920 --> 0:48:44.719 he was reading he changed his whole his whole lifestyle, 0:48:45.200 --> 0:48:46.880 diet and all the cast because I went to I 0:48:46.920 --> 0:48:49.479 went to Ramsey's house and saw a picture of Reese 0:48:49.480 --> 0:48:53.520 where he was thirty pounds thirty five pounds, bigger and 0:48:53.640 --> 0:48:57.000 stuff and looked, you know, looked a lot older. And 0:48:57.120 --> 0:49:00.719 I'll resiute, you know, really, yeah, that's when I used 0:49:00.719 --> 0:49:04.040 to drink, you know, oh wow, you know, but since 0:49:04.160 --> 0:49:07.600 when some from the time that I knew Maries, he 0:49:07.760 --> 0:49:11.200 never he didn't drink and stuff or smoke or anything 0:49:11.280 --> 0:49:11.480 like that. 0:49:11.960 --> 0:49:16.520 And so you know, you know that that kind of 0:49:16.840 --> 0:49:19.759 discipline was it hard doing that in the seventies, Like 0:49:19.960 --> 0:49:23.920 now food is more like science has made food very 0:49:24.040 --> 0:49:27.239 easy to you know, for a kind of not a 0:49:27.320 --> 0:49:30.040 connoisse or a kind of war like me to follow 0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:33.920 It is way easier now in today's society. But you know, 0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:37.040 back then a diet soda might taste like the worst 0:49:37.080 --> 0:49:41.879 thing in the world. But you know, how how hard 0:49:42.000 --> 0:49:44.359 was it to really maintain that discipline? Then he want 0:49:44.400 --> 0:49:48.320 the whole entire band to also follow the diet, and well, no, 0:49:48.600 --> 0:49:52.200 that's not true. He wasn't. 0:49:53.040 --> 0:49:56.000 He wasn't like controlling like that, you know, like you know, 0:49:56.320 --> 0:49:59.480 it's like what's good for him? You know, it was 0:49:59.640 --> 0:50:03.680 just more example kind of situation. You know, you you 0:50:03.880 --> 0:50:06.480 try different things, or you watch somebody doing something, you 0:50:06.480 --> 0:50:09.400 see how it's working for them or whatever, and you know, 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:13.239 if it's cool, you know, you might try it. 0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:15.320 I mean even today, like if I go to Alabama, 0:50:15.600 --> 0:50:21.319 like I doubt, I mean only recently. It's so, how 0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:28.800 does one survive a healthy he wants lifestyle in you 0:50:28.920 --> 0:50:32.520 know areas making choices, you know, just just making choices. 0:50:32.880 --> 0:50:36.239 He wasn't you know, at certain points he did have 0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:42.480 you know, different people cooking for him or whatever. Okay, but. 0:50:45.360 --> 0:50:47.560 I'm more, I'm more I'm confused to how you guys were. 0:50:48.080 --> 0:50:50.040 It sounds like you were a drug free band in 0:50:50.080 --> 0:50:55.399 the seventies. Not really, ok, But you said he wasn't 0:50:55.400 --> 0:50:56.240 that much of a discipline. 0:50:56.560 --> 0:51:02.280 He wasn't he wasn't speaking about him, all right, Okay, 0:51:02.440 --> 0:51:08.319 so open our Eyes man, Now here's the thing, Open 0:51:08.400 --> 0:51:13.239 our Eyes. I believe it was written by Yeah because 0:51:13.320 --> 0:51:15.759 Eddie sings you mean that song? Yes, it's it's a 0:51:16.200 --> 0:51:18.960 no good go you go. No, No, I don't want 0:51:18.960 --> 0:51:20.279 to mess it up. No. 0:51:20.520 --> 0:51:24.520 Open Our Eyes was a song that Maurice Uh this 0:51:24.840 --> 0:51:28.880 this uh guy used to play in Chicago on his 0:51:29.880 --> 0:51:32.919 going off. He used to you know all the time, 0:51:33.840 --> 0:51:38.920 and the and I want to I forget the actual 0:51:39.480 --> 0:51:43.040 artists who actually had it first. You might can look 0:51:43.080 --> 0:51:47.360 that up. No, you mean father, but that not the No, 0:51:47.600 --> 0:51:51.200 it wasn't No, that wasn't them. That was I forget 0:51:51.239 --> 0:51:54.400 the guy's name, but you could probably look it up 0:51:54.680 --> 0:51:58.600 father father Opened our Eyes. And so Maurice decided, you 0:51:58.680 --> 0:52:00.279 know how much I'm gonna do that song because it 0:52:00.360 --> 0:52:02.440 was just in his head because he heard it all 0:52:02.520 --> 0:52:02.839 the time. 0:52:03.960 --> 0:52:08.359 See, I thought that funkin Delic also covered that song 0:52:08.640 --> 0:52:11.319 on I was basically trying to lead into the fact 0:52:11.360 --> 0:52:15.359 that they do they do Okay, So okay, I knew 0:52:15.640 --> 0:52:18.520 Yeah Funkadelic also covered I thought they wrote it, but 0:52:21.000 --> 0:52:25.320 most most most most soul historians have made once on 0:52:25.400 --> 0:52:29.319 the fact that you know, Earth Wind and Fire versus 0:52:29.440 --> 0:52:35.279 p Funk is sort of Beatles versus Rolling Stones. Well, 0:52:35.360 --> 0:52:39.520 I mean, you guys the Beatles in that is clearly 0:52:39.600 --> 0:52:42.480 the Beatles. Yeah, yeah, Okay, like you guys were never 0:52:42.520 --> 0:52:44.240 seen as the bad boys of soul music. 0:52:44.760 --> 0:52:48.440 Okay, you know, I was thinking Funkadelic is sort of. 0:52:48.560 --> 0:52:50.360 But the thing is is that both of them have 0:52:50.440 --> 0:52:54.239 the same ideology, Like you guys have your version of 0:52:54.400 --> 0:52:59.160 spiritualism and afro futurism as far as the concepts. 0:52:59.000 --> 0:53:02.120 That you'll later explore, at least with the you know, 0:53:02.560 --> 0:53:09.320 with pyramid technology and future technology. Were you guys aware 0:53:09.480 --> 0:53:12.320 of each other's existence in the early period before you 0:53:12.480 --> 0:53:16.120 guys became superpowers. Were you guys even aware of what 0:53:16.480 --> 0:53:22.200 was happening in Detroit Ends seventy two to seventy four? 0:53:22.840 --> 0:53:24.560 I would assume that seventy four is kind of the 0:53:24.640 --> 0:53:28.600 year where both acts finally got their engines waring. But 0:53:28.800 --> 0:53:31.960 like in the Buzziers seventy two seventy three, were you 0:53:32.000 --> 0:53:35.279 guys even aware of each other at all? Yeah, we 0:53:35.400 --> 0:53:36.800 were aware of each. 0:53:36.640 --> 0:53:40.960 Other, and you know, both bands were so busy trying 0:53:41.040 --> 0:53:48.399 to really carve out their own destinies and be true 0:53:48.480 --> 0:53:51.480 to their identity. You know that we didn't take a 0:53:51.520 --> 0:53:52.080 lot of time. 0:53:52.600 --> 0:53:53.000 But I know. 0:53:54.640 --> 0:53:57.480 The one experience that we always talked about to this 0:53:57.640 --> 0:54:01.080 day is we played with the funk Cacadelics at the Armory. 0:54:02.400 --> 0:54:04.920 And it's not New York car, no no d C 0:54:06.080 --> 0:54:10.400 in d C at the Armory and we that was 0:54:10.480 --> 0:54:15.520 before we we we hadn't found no funk yet, and 0:54:15.640 --> 0:54:18.080 so we went on there talking about you know, I 0:54:18.200 --> 0:54:24.319 think about love, right, and so we had our little 0:54:24.880 --> 0:54:28.360 we had our little polite applause, and then the funk Aadelics. 0:54:28.719 --> 0:54:30.560 First you saw the smoke come out of the room, 0:54:32.760 --> 0:54:36.560 open the door, and you saw because they were smoking 0:54:36.840 --> 0:54:38.360 right right, and then you hear it. 0:54:41.800 --> 0:54:43.520 Right right, man. 0:54:44.600 --> 0:54:48.480 They funked us out of there so bad until Maurice said, 0:54:48.520 --> 0:54:50.920 we going back to l A. We're gonna rehearse, you 0:54:51.000 --> 0:54:51.600 know really. 0:54:51.719 --> 0:54:52.399 Yeah, So we went. 0:54:52.640 --> 0:54:54.719 We we went from there wherever we were on the road, 0:54:55.320 --> 0:54:58.640 we checked into wherever we were, and we had a rehearsal. 0:54:59.239 --> 0:55:06.919 We gotta find the one, you know, really really wow, 0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:09.040 oh yeah, And then we went. 0:55:09.040 --> 0:55:13.160 Back to Los Angeles and we rehearsed and stuff, and 0:55:13.320 --> 0:55:19.080 that's when Reese changed and went and got al McKay. Okay, okay, 0:55:19.120 --> 0:55:23.680 he said, you know because Johnny was just there Johnny Graham, yep, 0:55:24.200 --> 0:55:25.479 cousin of Larry Graham. 0:55:26.080 --> 0:55:28.680 I didn't know if his cousin. Yeah, I didn't. Wait, 0:55:28.920 --> 0:55:32.200 how do you not know that I know that Larry 0:55:32.280 --> 0:55:33.040 Graham discuss it? 0:55:33.320 --> 0:55:38.360 I never knew that really, never Johnny double check that 0:55:39.400 --> 0:55:42.959 I've read many never talked It's book. 0:55:43.520 --> 0:55:47.320 He never talked very much to anybody. Okay, So it 0:55:47.520 --> 0:55:51.719 is a lot of you, and I know, to make it, 0:55:52.080 --> 0:55:56.760 to make life work, you kind of have to be friends. 0:55:56.920 --> 0:55:59.799 Or who are the clicks in the group? Like who 0:55:59.800 --> 0:56:03.560 do you who's your running buddy versus? You know, did 0:56:03.600 --> 0:56:05.600 the Horns just hanging with each other? That Maurice and 0:56:05.719 --> 0:56:10.319 Verdin just like who well, you know, like if you say, 0:56:11.520 --> 0:56:13.640 and I'm talking classic lineup, okay. 0:56:13.440 --> 0:56:17.160 Clicks, you would say the Phoenix Horns. You definitely they 0:56:17.280 --> 0:56:19.560 hung together because they were crazy. 0:56:22.480 --> 0:56:27.080 Boy oh boy? And who who are those guys? Who 0:56:27.120 --> 0:56:27.400 are the. 0:56:29.160 --> 0:56:33.960 Michael Harris, Don Myrick and lou Sadderfield. 0:56:35.080 --> 0:56:42.600 Okay, Steve is waking up because of course Phoenix horns Phoenix. Also, yes, 0:56:42.760 --> 0:56:45.640 we'll get to that. Reese was a loner. 0:56:47.320 --> 0:56:50.239 Unless he was he'd hang with me, he'd hang with 0:56:50.680 --> 0:56:57.160 with Verdein. I think my my my hanging buddies were 0:56:57.280 --> 0:57:03.320 probably Ralph and Larry Dunn because I grew up with 0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:06.799 him and Andrew, you know, and they Me and Ralph 0:57:06.880 --> 0:57:09.520 had to meet room together too, you know, back in 0:57:09.520 --> 0:57:10.279 the day when you have to. 0:57:10.280 --> 0:57:13.439 Back in the day two two in the motel. Ok. Wow, 0:57:14.120 --> 0:57:17.320 how Also, this is what I really want to know. 0:57:18.800 --> 0:57:23.760 What is standard for survival when you're in such a 0:57:23.880 --> 0:57:27.560 large scale group. The reason why so many AXCO solo 0:57:27.720 --> 0:57:29.560 course is to get the biggest piece of the pie, 0:57:30.120 --> 0:57:36.200 their own pie. But when you are one ninth of 0:57:36.920 --> 0:57:41.200 a superpower and you're not touring twenty four to seven 0:57:42.240 --> 0:57:45.120 or making your own direct money, like when touring stops 0:57:45.160 --> 0:57:46.960 and it's like I gotta go home and pay these 0:57:47.000 --> 0:57:51.040 bills and you still got responsibilities, right. So if I'm 0:57:51.240 --> 0:57:54.200 I know what it takes to survive like that in 0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:58.600 twenty nineteen because I'm oh shit, I'm in my own 0:57:58.640 --> 0:58:03.040 earth room and fire with eleven eleven, you know, when 0:58:03.040 --> 0:58:05.600 the roots this out, like four members ye yeah, why 0:58:05.760 --> 0:58:08.520 how do we get to eleven? So I know what 0:58:08.600 --> 0:58:13.080 it takes for you know, eleven people to make a 0:58:13.200 --> 0:58:16.040 good living out of this. But if it's nineteen seventy three, 0:58:16.120 --> 0:58:22.320 seventy four, seventy five, what is good living? What is it? 0:58:22.480 --> 0:58:26.240 What is a good living weekly pay? Is it making 0:58:26.640 --> 0:58:31.560 six hundred dollars a week or well? And you guys 0:58:31.600 --> 0:58:33.960 did that baller mentality, So it wasn't like you had 0:58:34.080 --> 0:58:38.120 rap videos to look at to be like I need that. 0:58:38.360 --> 0:58:41.080 So yeah, you figure that was a different time. 0:58:41.240 --> 0:58:43.920 Diff you know, we weren't we weren't balling, We weren't 0:58:43.960 --> 0:58:47.400 trying to buy you know, a thousand dollars pairs of 0:58:47.480 --> 0:58:51.640 shoes and all that kind of stuff, you know, And 0:58:52.280 --> 0:58:57.000 you figure that everybody that was there at that time, 0:58:57.200 --> 0:59:02.800 except for maybe Al McKay, we're coming straight from their 0:59:03.000 --> 0:59:09.680 collective environments. Me from Denver, Johnny Graham from Kentucky, Ralph 0:59:09.720 --> 0:59:15.920 from Los Angeles. You know, So what impressed us then 0:59:17.280 --> 0:59:21.480 didn't take a whole lot, you know, it didn't take 0:59:21.480 --> 0:59:21.960 a whole lot. 0:59:22.320 --> 0:59:26.160 And so you know, it was years you know before 0:59:26.520 --> 0:59:27.560 you know, we really. 0:59:29.200 --> 0:59:33.840 Had any kind of understanding of really how much money 0:59:34.000 --> 0:59:34.800 was being made. 0:59:36.120 --> 0:59:39.080 What was okay? But what was the dream? I'll say, 0:59:39.280 --> 0:59:42.000 like in ninety four, my version of the dream was, 0:59:43.320 --> 0:59:44.960 you know, if I could do this for a living, 0:59:45.640 --> 0:59:50.680 have all my bills paid, move out my parents' crib, 0:59:52.480 --> 0:59:55.080 and move in a nicer you know. I was doing 0:59:55.120 --> 0:59:59.520 that nice, humble thing, and that lasted me good until 1:00:01.040 --> 1:00:02.920 all right, I started making role money like maybe like 1:00:02.960 --> 1:00:06.560 twenty ten, and then I was like, oh, okay, I'm 1:00:06.560 --> 1:00:11.280 gonna be corrupt like the rest of rich America because 1:00:11.320 --> 1:00:14.080 now I you know, I never thought I'd get to 1:00:14.160 --> 1:00:17.400 this level of, Oh, let me burn this one hundred 1:00:17.400 --> 1:00:19.400 dollars bill with a cigar like that sort of you 1:00:19.480 --> 1:00:22.120 did what? No, I'm just I always had I always 1:00:22.160 --> 1:00:24.680 imagine a fat cat lighting up a cigar with one 1:00:24.720 --> 1:00:27.520 hundred dollars bill. But I'm just saying that in the 1:00:27.920 --> 1:00:32.920 in the seventies, what was just the dream? And was 1:00:33.000 --> 1:00:36.120 it easy to make make a weekly living as a 1:00:36.240 --> 1:00:40.440 full time singer? Because we know based on some of 1:00:40.480 --> 1:00:45.280 these like unsung episodes, and from what I heard, pimping 1:00:46.200 --> 1:00:49.600 was actually the DJ gig of the seventies. Really, Harold 1:00:49.640 --> 1:00:53.560 Melvin James Brown, like I can name. 1:00:54.360 --> 1:00:56.760 At least ten to I'm sorry, did you say pimping 1:00:57.800 --> 1:00:58.920 just like just like. 1:00:58.960 --> 1:01:04.840 With rappers taking your money and investing it in the cocaine? 1:01:05.240 --> 1:01:07.600 Okay, I don't. 1:01:07.720 --> 1:01:10.520 Yeah, I mean my version of that is the DJ gig. 1:01:11.200 --> 1:01:15.120 For the longest, the roots was like my my, no money, 1:01:15.240 --> 1:01:18.320 like whatever, like that's the prestige thing and that's that's 1:01:18.360 --> 1:01:21.040 his legacy. But you know, I make a real living 1:01:21.120 --> 1:01:23.800 off of DJ gigs because one and I don't have 1:01:23.880 --> 1:01:27.680 to share it with eleven people. So true. So I'm 1:01:27.800 --> 1:01:32.080 just asking what was just the life goals of like 1:01:32.280 --> 1:01:33.720 I'm satisfied. 1:01:33.200 --> 1:01:38.840 And well, yeah, you have to remember that we were 1:01:38.960 --> 1:01:41.800 just coming out the Peace of Love era and we 1:01:41.960 --> 1:01:50.000 were very idealistic. So for us, we we we believed 1:01:50.120 --> 1:01:55.680 the whole spiell. We we really believed that we were family, okay, 1:01:56.200 --> 1:02:01.800 you know, and we really believed that, you know, where 1:02:01.840 --> 1:02:05.080 everything that Marias was doing was taking care of all 1:02:05.160 --> 1:02:08.640 of us, and we really did believe that we were 1:02:08.760 --> 1:02:10.760 you know that, Oh it's just gonna because you know, 1:02:11.080 --> 1:02:13.400 we were living our dream I see what you're saying, 1:02:13.480 --> 1:02:17.440 We're living our dreams. So it's like, you know, if 1:02:17.520 --> 1:02:22.280 anybody did raise up to say what you know, everybody 1:02:22.320 --> 1:02:25.200 would have to remind him of how blessed we really were, 1:02:25.800 --> 1:02:29.560 you know, to be you know, doing what we were doing. 1:02:30.360 --> 1:02:38.520 So I guess it's it's it's financially impossible to have 1:02:38.680 --> 1:02:42.080 a unit that size and not come out the gate 1:02:44.000 --> 1:02:47.840 making millions. Because even for us, we did that. We did, 1:02:47.920 --> 1:02:51.840 we did, we did community thing like for the least 1:02:51.880 --> 1:02:54.160 the first fifteen years of the roots, like me and 1:02:54.240 --> 1:02:57.840 Tury didn't start taking salaries until super late, like two 1:02:57.880 --> 1:02:58.480 thousand and eight. 1:02:59.320 --> 1:03:01.240 But see, there was a point when everything changed. That's 1:03:01.240 --> 1:03:02.360 why I'm wondering how that worked. 1:03:02.360 --> 1:03:04.640 Well, we started making more money, but I'm just saying 1:03:04.680 --> 1:03:07.680 that in the beginning, when we get a check, it 1:03:07.800 --> 1:03:12.960 goes to everyone's rent, everyone's gas, everyone's that sort of thing. 1:03:13.160 --> 1:03:16.040 So well, that wasn't what was happening, though, I don't 1:03:16.040 --> 1:03:20.400 want during the period, I don't want you to think 1:03:20.480 --> 1:03:23.560 that because that's not true. See what, See, the first 1:03:23.640 --> 1:03:28.960 group left because they knew that they would never be 1:03:29.440 --> 1:03:34.040 an equal part or take an equal share in the 1:03:34.200 --> 1:03:39.560 ban earth, Wind and Fire. They they they left, Okay, 1:03:40.080 --> 1:03:43.640 they knew because they had you know, they were older, 1:03:43.720 --> 1:03:46.400 they had more experience, they knew, Okay, we came in, 1:03:46.720 --> 1:03:47.439 we ain't know nothing. 1:03:48.120 --> 1:03:57.040 Okay, so we were it was years before we knew that. 1:03:57.200 --> 1:04:01.520 Basically we were just employees, you know, and the Lion's 1:04:01.560 --> 1:04:03.320 share of everything was more. 1:04:04.320 --> 1:04:06.240 So you guys didn't notice as you were going to 1:04:06.360 --> 1:04:08.680 his house to visit and things of that nature like that, 1:04:08.920 --> 1:04:10.080 like this was huge. 1:04:10.160 --> 1:04:13.520 And I'm no, we didn't. We didn't know that. But 1:04:14.240 --> 1:04:17.160 I have to say, though we all had houses, we 1:04:17.400 --> 1:04:19.360 you know, we weren't like I wasn't trying to comfort 1:04:19.360 --> 1:04:21.720 the angle. It wasn't the money, but I just wanted 1:04:21.760 --> 1:04:21.960 to know. 1:04:22.080 --> 1:04:24.600 Yeah, it wasn't like it wasn't like we you know, 1:04:25.680 --> 1:04:27.720 we were in the apartments and he was you know, 1:04:28.800 --> 1:04:32.880 you know his his his mansions were bigger than our houses. 1:04:33.400 --> 1:04:36.120 But you know, yeah, we all had houses, and that 1:04:36.280 --> 1:04:37.960 was something that we never thought that we would have. 1:04:39.280 --> 1:04:41.920 But growing up, I would I would think growing up, like, 1:04:43.240 --> 1:04:45.920 all right, let's take a group like Mandrel, even though 1:04:45.960 --> 1:04:48.600 I know there's blue collar musicians and people that work 1:04:48.640 --> 1:04:50.760 for a living. But in my five year old head, 1:04:50.760 --> 1:04:53.080 I'm looking at Mandrail and I'm like, yeah, they're on 1:04:53.160 --> 1:04:55.880 soul Tree. Yeah those guys are millionaires, and that that's 1:04:55.920 --> 1:04:59.840 the and that's the impression that everyone has about who 1:05:00.000 --> 1:05:02.320 whatever they see on TV or here on the radio. 1:05:02.840 --> 1:05:06.040 So what I'm just saying is like, in nineteen seventy five, 1:05:06.200 --> 1:05:15.080 could a trombone player just make fifty to seventy five 1:05:15.120 --> 1:05:18.280 thousand a year and be cool for that period? 1:05:18.960 --> 1:05:21.880 Back in those days, a trouble player if he made 1:05:22.000 --> 1:05:23.560 fifteen thousand dollars a year. 1:05:24.000 --> 1:05:28.320 Fifteen thousand year, Wow, whoa whoa? 1:05:28.520 --> 1:05:30.880 Back then, if he made fifteen thousand dollars a year, 1:05:32.120 --> 1:05:34.800 he could be cool. You gotta gotta look it up. 1:05:35.440 --> 1:05:38.280 So that's a hand of mount thing. Like still even 1:05:38.520 --> 1:05:41.520 with all and on stuff on the radio. 1:05:41.440 --> 1:05:44.080 Like, it's still like you guys were blue collar musicians 1:05:44.160 --> 1:05:46.840 having to go to work every day. And I didn't 1:05:46.880 --> 1:05:47.080 know that. 1:05:48.160 --> 1:05:50.680 I didn't know that that musicians made the kind of 1:05:50.720 --> 1:05:52.840 money that they made until I was talking to the 1:05:52.920 --> 1:05:56.600 Mouse one time, to the who feeling games? 1:05:56.720 --> 1:05:57.280 Filling games? 1:06:00.240 --> 1:06:01.840 Oh that's not a physical thing, is it? 1:06:01.960 --> 1:06:02.000 No? 1:06:02.240 --> 1:06:06.280 No, that's that's that's that's his nickname. Kay. You know 1:06:06.520 --> 1:06:10.120 Quincy called everybody called him mouse. He put you on 1:06:10.240 --> 1:06:11.040 the game Wow. 1:06:11.160 --> 1:06:16.120 Look where I was at at at A and M 1:06:17.040 --> 1:06:20.640 and he was at a and m and we were talking. 1:06:21.440 --> 1:06:22.760 See we used to go to the same church and 1:06:22.800 --> 1:06:27.760 stuff giving me and Mouse and so like, Mouse told 1:06:27.800 --> 1:06:31.560 me that he was making ten thousand dollars a week 1:06:32.760 --> 1:06:35.280 with Michael back then. 1:06:35.840 --> 1:06:40.840 Wow, way back then, way back then. And I said, 1:06:41.840 --> 1:06:50.600 that's good. Whoa ten dollars a week? She said, yeah, 1:06:51.680 --> 1:06:57.120 what you make? Oh Lord, before you answer this question, 1:06:57.880 --> 1:06:59.360 I thought it was gonna be a sound of frek 1:06:59.440 --> 1:07:02.680 Fee show all right with me? 1:07:07.280 --> 1:07:12.960 I said, what, I had no idea that, because look, man, 1:07:13.000 --> 1:07:17.320 we're playing five nights sellouts at the Forum by ourself. 1:07:18.200 --> 1:07:23.400 We're playing you know, Whimley five nights, you know, by ourselves. 1:07:24.200 --> 1:07:25.840 Come on, come on, do the math. 1:07:26.440 --> 1:07:27.280 I am you know. 1:07:27.920 --> 1:07:30.600 It's like we we got we got plaques for for 1:07:30.840 --> 1:07:37.160 the for the Massive Square Garden, you know now now 1:07:38.320 --> 1:07:42.440 by you know, by ourselves, we got three four double 1:07:42.800 --> 1:07:44.480 double triple platinum albums. 1:07:45.480 --> 1:07:49.840 You know, I'm like, what, So, how do you have 1:07:49.960 --> 1:07:52.080 that conversation with the man who's kind of like your brother? 1:07:52.200 --> 1:07:54.720 Now? How do you how do you how do you 1:07:54.840 --> 1:08:02.600 Maurice talk about that? Or do you You don't? Okay, 1:08:03.040 --> 1:08:04.520 you know, I understand the. 1:08:06.360 --> 1:08:07.200 Why do you rectify? 1:08:09.800 --> 1:08:15.320 Sometimes? Sometimes you do sometimes you don't, you know, hopefully 1:08:15.440 --> 1:08:19.200 now is the you know, the glory period or whatever. 1:08:19.400 --> 1:08:21.760 Like it was one of those kinds of situations where 1:08:22.720 --> 1:08:25.040 you know, like because like you was if you read 1:08:25.080 --> 1:08:27.560 the book, it was one of those kind of situations 1:08:27.560 --> 1:08:29.519 where you know, like, oh, and you were gonna ask 1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:30.559 me why I didn't like. 1:08:32.320 --> 1:08:37.479 Raise Okay, okay, because it was no because it was 1:08:38.400 --> 1:08:43.720 it was in that period where you. 1:08:43.760 --> 1:08:47.680 Know, everybody was coming of age and their eyes were 1:08:47.920 --> 1:08:51.720 open and their eyes were being open, and you know, 1:08:52.000 --> 1:08:56.800 the the chemistry was terrible, and he was using other 1:08:56.960 --> 1:09:00.200 musicians to do the pretty much do the record, you know, 1:09:00.280 --> 1:09:02.599 except for you know, me and him. We were doing 1:09:02.680 --> 1:09:05.519 and we were like session musicians to come in and 1:09:05.640 --> 1:09:08.600 do it. So it's like power light and all that. 1:09:08.880 --> 1:09:13.200 Oh my god. I was like, I could not I 1:09:13.240 --> 1:09:14.439 could not listen to that record. 1:09:14.600 --> 1:09:15.320 I remember. 1:09:16.960 --> 1:09:19.880 The first time I mentioned and that's the first record 1:09:19.960 --> 1:09:23.559 you said, you like, I looked at you and you said, 1:09:23.800 --> 1:09:25.480 you mean you don't like that record. 1:09:26.200 --> 1:09:31.639 Dude, about yesterdamn one record. 1:09:31.720 --> 1:09:33.880 I mean I probably could, you know, I could listen 1:09:33.960 --> 1:09:35.519 to it now, you know, But I think it was 1:09:35.640 --> 1:09:38.200 just a matter of you know, you can't listen to 1:09:38.320 --> 1:09:41.840 it without you know, taking you back into you know, 1:09:42.120 --> 1:09:43.840 all the craziness that was going on. 1:09:48.880 --> 1:09:51.280 All right, before I get deep in in financial hole, 1:09:52.439 --> 1:09:55.719 there's still more I gotta ask. Can you talk about 1:09:55.760 --> 1:09:59.720 Caribou Wrench. You guys chose Caribou Wrench to record. 1:09:59.479 --> 1:10:01.840 Your records because they were ghosts in the in the 1:10:01.960 --> 1:10:05.320 in the in the place. For reals, really, man, and 1:10:05.640 --> 1:10:08.280 I no joke, there were ghosts and they told us 1:10:08.360 --> 1:10:13.559 there were ghosts there, and you know, I didn't believe 1:10:13.600 --> 1:10:14.599 it until I saw one. 1:10:14.760 --> 1:10:16.920 Did you bring it up? Because it was in Colorado? Like, 1:10:16.960 --> 1:10:19.320 how did you guys up? Yeah, you know, the Colorado 1:10:19.400 --> 1:10:20.559 has a great connection. 1:10:20.680 --> 1:10:25.880 But it was a place where there were like about 1:10:26.080 --> 1:10:29.479 five or six different cabins. All the cabins had you know, 1:10:30.360 --> 1:10:32.760 three bedrooms in them with the kitchens and it was 1:10:32.840 --> 1:10:39.240 really a fabulous place, horses everything, you know, it was 1:10:39.360 --> 1:10:41.200 like a you know, it was large enough for it 1:10:41.280 --> 1:10:42.200 to be a little city. 1:10:43.160 --> 1:10:43.360 Yeah. 1:10:44.520 --> 1:10:47.240 And the groups would go up there, and we were 1:10:47.240 --> 1:10:49.920 the only you know, African American band that you know, 1:10:50.240 --> 1:10:51.080 ever worked up there. 1:10:51.560 --> 1:10:54.479 You know, we did two records up there. Open our 1:10:54.479 --> 1:10:57.200 eyes and that's the way of the world. Okay, okay, 1:10:59.120 --> 1:11:01.439 can you talk about the uh that's the way in 1:11:01.439 --> 1:11:03.599 the world with the Harvey Hotel. Oh yeah, it wasn't 1:11:03.640 --> 1:11:08.880 that terrible. I thought it was enjoyable. Man. What you 1:11:09.000 --> 1:11:12.719 guys had distant so much really that when I finally 1:11:12.800 --> 1:11:18.920 got the DVD and watched it, Man, we went to 1:11:19.040 --> 1:11:21.040 the opening was a high standards. 1:11:21.120 --> 1:11:23.600 Were always all excited. We went to the opening and 1:11:23.640 --> 1:11:25.479 stuff because we thought, oh man, we're on the move. 1:11:25.520 --> 1:11:28.639 We're going to the opening. We got there, man, nobody 1:11:28.800 --> 1:11:31.160 was there first of all, and then we saw it 1:11:31.600 --> 1:11:38.080 and we was like, so, how how did you guys 1:11:38.439 --> 1:11:41.360 manage to But it was a catalyst for some great writing, 1:11:42.360 --> 1:11:42.560 I know. 1:11:42.960 --> 1:11:46.160 But the thing was is that because the fonts the 1:11:46.520 --> 1:11:52.240 print was so small, that was where he said, look, 1:11:52.800 --> 1:11:53.560 that's what we're gonna do. 1:11:54.000 --> 1:11:56.840 He called Bob and Joe and he said, I want 1:11:56.960 --> 1:12:01.639 that writing on there to be so little really from 1:12:01.720 --> 1:12:02.240 the movie. 1:12:03.000 --> 1:12:05.519 From the movie. That's the way I wanted them to 1:12:05.560 --> 1:12:07.880 have to look for it to see that. I thought 1:12:07.920 --> 1:12:10.200 you guys were just being clever, like you made up of. 1:12:11.120 --> 1:12:13.599 Like he he did that once we saw it, because 1:12:13.600 --> 1:12:17.240 he's like, man, that's what that's what he said. 1:12:19.240 --> 1:12:21.880 So the album was released way in advance before the 1:12:21.960 --> 1:12:22.559 movie came out. 1:12:23.320 --> 1:12:27.400 I'm not I don't, yeah, I think it was released before. Okay, 1:12:27.840 --> 1:12:28.880 so he was already a hit. 1:12:29.880 --> 1:12:32.519 Yeah, So what was the what was the feeling of finally, 1:12:32.800 --> 1:12:34.880 I mean, being as though that was the breakthrough album? 1:12:35.640 --> 1:12:38.760 What was the feeling? Well, I mean you slowly heard 1:12:39.240 --> 1:12:41.760 Evil and Mighty Mighty and all that stuff on the 1:12:41.840 --> 1:12:43.600 radio or whatnot. But was it? 1:12:43.880 --> 1:12:44.040 Was it? 1:12:44.720 --> 1:12:49.400 What was the main difference between Shining Star success as 1:12:49.439 --> 1:12:52.840 opposed to hearing Mighty Mighty. 1:12:52.680 --> 1:12:55.840 And and well by the time we got the charity 1:12:55.880 --> 1:12:58.719 start because we had like about five number one records 1:12:58.760 --> 1:12:59.439 on that record. 1:13:00.120 --> 1:13:00.600 But we. 1:13:02.280 --> 1:13:05.280 We were we were then, we were we were doing 1:13:05.720 --> 1:13:09.200 you know, big gigs. You know, we're doing we're doing 1:13:09.280 --> 1:13:11.880 big gigs. And we had started to add you know, 1:13:12.720 --> 1:13:16.040 the production and all that kind of stuff to to 1:13:16.240 --> 1:13:18.519 our our presentation and stuff. 1:13:19.560 --> 1:13:23.360 Okay, the the inner Sleeve of Gratitude where it's this 1:13:23.720 --> 1:13:27.840 bird's eye view, it's a bird's eye view shot of 1:13:28.640 --> 1:13:31.559 you can see the band on stage, but it looks 1:13:31.680 --> 1:13:35.800 like you're performing for at least one hundred thousand people. 1:13:36.280 --> 1:13:39.400 M h. Was that a music festival or was that 1:13:40.160 --> 1:13:43.800 a typical earthwinind fire show. I'm assuming there's a lot 1:13:43.880 --> 1:13:47.080 of white faces there, Like how I was thinking that 1:13:48.520 --> 1:13:50.519 I was I could be wrong. I was thinking that 1:13:50.640 --> 1:13:56.280 was Oakland, but I could be wrong. Yeah, it was. 1:13:56.479 --> 1:13:58.840 It was just that was a very unfair. I know 1:13:58.920 --> 1:14:06.560 we did several we did. We recorded Oakland, we recorded Atlanta, 1:14:08.760 --> 1:14:11.280 and I think we might have recorded Los Angeles. 1:14:12.920 --> 1:14:19.120 So you guys went from relative underground favorite to like 1:14:19.240 --> 1:14:22.880 it looked like a festival, like it was outdoors. It 1:14:23.200 --> 1:14:26.920 had to been somewhere between seventy five to one hundred 1:14:26.920 --> 1:14:32.040 thousand people all packed in this photo right what happened? 1:14:32.160 --> 1:14:37.200 Like is is that the magic of Clive Davison the 1:14:37.360 --> 1:14:38.559 radio system we're doing. 1:14:38.720 --> 1:14:41.320 You know, it was a different time, different day when 1:14:41.360 --> 1:14:46.479 everything everything collides together, you know everything the record company 1:14:46.720 --> 1:14:49.040 was probably you know, at their at the top of 1:14:49.640 --> 1:14:54.880 their game, advertisement and publishing radio every when everything goes right, 1:14:55.400 --> 1:15:00.240 everything the music, that product, and people were you know, 1:15:00.360 --> 1:15:06.320 that's when music was very, very valuable to people. You know, 1:15:06.439 --> 1:15:10.519 they didn't have all these other entertainment situations that buying 1:15:10.640 --> 1:15:12.960 for their attention and stuff. So you know, a record 1:15:13.040 --> 1:15:15.840 came out, man, people were around the corner around the 1:15:15.920 --> 1:15:18.240 block to get your record when it came out, and 1:15:18.680 --> 1:15:20.599 David Foster was one of them out there. 1:15:21.439 --> 1:15:25.200 Well, I want to ask about spirit versus songs in 1:15:25.280 --> 1:15:27.680 the kid Life battle. Well I'm gonna get to do that. 1:15:28.560 --> 1:15:34.439 Just one thing about gratitude. How set my mind of 1:15:34.520 --> 1:15:39.840 these how much live how many? How much? How much 1:15:40.000 --> 1:15:46.120 background overdubbing was done on gratitude? Because I refuse to 1:15:46.120 --> 1:15:49.080 believe that you guys were that perfect in your harmony 1:15:49.160 --> 1:15:55.559 game end concert without breaking the sweat, like, well, we didn't. 1:15:55.880 --> 1:15:58.519 We we didn't mess with the with the leads. 1:15:58.640 --> 1:16:01.360 But me and Maurice he had a you know, clause 1:16:01.439 --> 1:16:03.400 and all the stuff that we if we did something 1:16:03.439 --> 1:16:07.560 on television, because we we did all the vocals on 1:16:07.640 --> 1:16:08.879 the on all the records. 1:16:09.360 --> 1:16:10.360 It was just me and him. 1:16:10.960 --> 1:16:13.920 So we just you know, molten doubled, you know, all 1:16:13.960 --> 1:16:16.880 the harmonies, all the different stuff. One question about your harmonies, man, well, 1:16:16.960 --> 1:16:20.040 just your vocals. Would y'all sing them together? We were 1:16:20.080 --> 1:16:25.439 singing together, We were singing. It was it was very 1:16:25.560 --> 1:16:28.120 very easy, you know, we you know, and we would 1:16:28.120 --> 1:16:30.240 sing all the up stuff, you know, all the vocals 1:16:30.280 --> 1:16:32.280 we would do so like it was hard for us 1:16:32.320 --> 1:16:38.560 to duplicate on the on the road. So if we 1:16:38.640 --> 1:16:42.840 did something, we did a recording, uh of something, me 1:16:42.920 --> 1:16:48.280 and him would go and fix the backgrounds. Okay, yeah, 1:16:48.800 --> 1:16:52.559 Wait a minute, Wada mentioned Justica Cleves oh man? 1:16:53.479 --> 1:16:57.479 Was she MV? How did she join the the Last 1:16:57.560 --> 1:17:01.280 Days and Times? Right? And then when did she leave 1:17:01.320 --> 1:17:01.679 for Friends? 1:17:02.160 --> 1:17:02.439 Have you? 1:17:03.000 --> 1:17:06.160 No? Friends of Stinction was before? Yeah? 1:17:06.200 --> 1:17:09.639 That was before she was in She was Friends of Distinction. 1:17:09.760 --> 1:17:12.960 That's how we discovered her. I mean we found her. Yeah, 1:17:13.080 --> 1:17:14.479 it's Lynny Smith. 1:17:14.600 --> 1:17:17.479 And did she go to the Funkadelic Empire after she. 1:17:17.560 --> 1:17:22.679 Went to Funkadelics after after she left Earth Wind Fire? 1:17:24.560 --> 1:17:27.720 Okay, well all right, speaking of it is one thing 1:17:27.760 --> 1:17:30.720 I forgot. Did you guys have any response to Let's 1:17:30.760 --> 1:17:32.120 take It to the stage or you just took it 1:17:32.160 --> 1:17:35.040 as playful ribbing? You say, what, did you guys have 1:17:35.280 --> 1:17:42.200 any any response or or feelings about the song Let's 1:17:42.280 --> 1:17:45.240 take It to the stage? Or did you consider that 1:17:45.560 --> 1:17:49.000 just playful ribbing of Funkadelic calling out all the soul 1:17:49.080 --> 1:17:52.559 bands of the I don't, I don't, I'm not familiar. 1:17:56.280 --> 1:18:01.320 It's does he call them again? Earth No? Like he 1:18:01.600 --> 1:18:04.920 you know slipping the family brick snoofs tell me something good. 1:18:05.400 --> 1:18:09.640 He's basically saying, let's take it to the stage, let's battle. Uh, 1:18:10.160 --> 1:18:15.920 and names like you know, six or seven acts. But 1:18:17.120 --> 1:18:21.040 I mean, you know, where was that seventy six, seventy four, 1:18:21.160 --> 1:18:24.320 seventy four on the Let's Take It to the Stage album? 1:18:26.000 --> 1:18:29.120 Was never too late for a battle though George is. 1:18:29.080 --> 1:18:34.840 About to retire, Yeah, it is too late for late before. Yeah, 1:18:34.960 --> 1:18:39.639 but I always wanted to know if if you guys, 1:18:39.800 --> 1:18:43.160 like ever you know, took serious offense to that or 1:18:43.600 --> 1:18:47.160 you know, was it just but you didn't know until 1:18:48.640 --> 1:18:52.280 right now this No one ever mentioned that scene. No, wow, 1:18:52.880 --> 1:18:55.400 Johnny Graham, Let's take it into stage. It's just weird 1:18:55.400 --> 1:18:57.160 that nobody's ever mentioned that because I remember the first 1:18:57.160 --> 1:18:58.479 time I heard Let's take it the Stage, I was like, 1:18:58.560 --> 1:19:00.920 WHOA called him out? I was like, I was like, 1:19:03.680 --> 1:19:05.439 I was like, what did everybody think about this? 1:19:05.920 --> 1:19:06.080 Well? 1:19:06.360 --> 1:19:09.920 Yeah, I always wanted to know if there were Well, 1:19:10.120 --> 1:19:13.280 how did you guys feel about other bands in the day, Like, say, 1:19:13.320 --> 1:19:15.040 did you name a band name, a band that you 1:19:15.120 --> 1:19:17.800 felt some sort of way about, Like, man, we gotta 1:19:21.680 --> 1:19:24.439 we just didn't that was we just didn't beef like 1:19:24.520 --> 1:19:27.000 that back, you know, like like nobody guys kept you 1:19:27.000 --> 1:19:27.800 guys on your toes. 1:19:28.280 --> 1:19:33.680 Everybody, you know, everyone wanted to be original, you know, 1:19:33.840 --> 1:19:37.400 we were kind of being out of shape when Ohio 1:19:37.560 --> 1:19:41.680 players been on on our music a lot, you know, 1:19:42.200 --> 1:19:46.040 really yeah, you know, like just like almost verbatim, you know, like, 1:19:46.400 --> 1:19:49.559 but but up from that to that point, there were 1:19:49.800 --> 1:19:52.520 like very few bands that wanted to sound. 1:19:53.880 --> 1:19:56.479 Like the other band. You know, you would we would 1:19:56.520 --> 1:19:58.880 do it ribbing each other, you know, or something. You know, 1:19:58.920 --> 1:20:03.639 I would say Barka's more than but literally in every 1:20:03.760 --> 1:20:06.000 bar case. But they admitted that they were by the 1:20:06.080 --> 1:20:09.799 forty five of whatever band it was, and then switched, 1:20:10.320 --> 1:20:13.679 which is why Shine sounds like on your face or whatever. 1:20:16.120 --> 1:20:20.640 So the battle of Spirit versus Songs in the Key 1:20:20.680 --> 1:20:26.320 of Life, of course, uh, I think one of the 1:20:26.439 --> 1:20:30.680 first event moments in black music. I remember because I 1:20:30.880 --> 1:20:35.680 was five at the time, but a lot of my 1:20:35.800 --> 1:20:40.439 dad's bandmates were speaking of this. Of course. Both I 1:20:40.560 --> 1:20:42.400 think Spirit and Songs in the Cay of Life were 1:20:42.560 --> 1:20:48.960 released within a week of each other. Wow, right, yeah, 1:20:49.200 --> 1:20:54.599 right of each other. Wow. And I think you guys 1:20:54.680 --> 1:20:58.400 came out the the day before. I'm not certain, but 1:21:02.200 --> 1:21:06.360 were you were you at all? Did you have any 1:21:06.439 --> 1:21:10.640 investment whatsoever, like expectation investments to debut at number one. 1:21:11.400 --> 1:21:13.120 The end result, of course, the songs in the Kiev 1:21:13.200 --> 1:21:15.680 Life debut at number one. You guys debuted at number two. 1:21:16.760 --> 1:21:21.599 But I mean, was there a feeling of competition at 1:21:21.640 --> 1:21:27.200 the time, Like the most important artists in the history 1:21:27.200 --> 1:21:33.720 of black music is releasing their their definitive statement. No, 1:21:35.439 --> 1:21:36.400 there's just another day to you. 1:21:37.320 --> 1:21:39.479 You know, you got to remember that it's a different time. 1:21:40.400 --> 1:21:41.960 You know, a lot of a lot of the things 1:21:42.000 --> 1:21:44.200 that you're talking about right now have kind of been 1:21:44.520 --> 1:21:50.120 ingrained in culture as culture has moved a longiness, you know. 1:21:50.640 --> 1:21:56.800 But for for us, I mean, Stevie has always been beloved, 1:21:57.560 --> 1:22:01.320 you know, as an artist, and I'm sure that he 1:22:01.439 --> 1:22:05.120 feels the exact same way about us, you know, And 1:22:05.360 --> 1:22:08.840 so you know, we were inspired by one another, you know, 1:22:08.880 --> 1:22:12.599 because like when he said, when he heard shine a Star, 1:22:13.840 --> 1:22:23.760 then he went home and wrote, Sir Duke, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:22:24.479 --> 1:22:27.920 the thing oh I wish, Yeah, he went home and 1:22:28.000 --> 1:22:31.240 wrote I wish, you know. But yeah, it was just 1:22:31.360 --> 1:22:33.280 one of those kinds of situations where we know, it 1:22:33.360 --> 1:22:37.120 was like we we had admiration society. You know, we're 1:22:37.160 --> 1:22:39.720 happy for him, and I'm sure he was happy for us. 1:22:40.600 --> 1:22:46.640 Okay, is there a particular reason why, Uh, this is 1:22:46.680 --> 1:22:50.000 a nerd question, a serious nerd question. Uh, why you 1:22:50.080 --> 1:22:55.720 guys dropped the original intro off of Getaway the Do 1:22:55.800 --> 1:23:00.960 you remember the fifteen second No, there's uh it's a man. 1:23:03.320 --> 1:23:05.360 When I heard that, I was like, yo, and we 1:23:05.479 --> 1:23:07.680 play that, we play that now, you still do it? Now? 1:23:07.800 --> 1:23:09.640 We do it now in our show. They took it 1:23:09.680 --> 1:23:14.200 off for radio, and I always wanted to know why 1:23:14.520 --> 1:23:19.400 you guys never kept that on the album. I'll actually 1:23:19.400 --> 1:23:22.840 say that imagination. Listen, man, let me tell you something, man, 1:23:23.360 --> 1:23:25.200 what was you on that day? Because I feel like 1:23:25.439 --> 1:23:28.040 that look, even that. 1:23:28.120 --> 1:23:29.960 Angels mix, it's like the mix there's like an a 1:23:30.000 --> 1:23:32.320 cappella mix of it that it was on the reissue 1:23:32.479 --> 1:23:32.840 re issue? 1:23:32.920 --> 1:23:35.519 Yeah, oh my god, man, y'all vocals. That's what I 1:23:35.640 --> 1:23:37.439 was asking. What do you feel? Yeah? What do you 1:23:37.479 --> 1:23:39.960 feel your best performances? 1:23:40.320 --> 1:23:42.760 I think that probably was one of my best, you know, 1:23:43.080 --> 1:23:46.120 even more than I write a song for you probably 1:23:47.320 --> 1:23:49.920 just be thinking about it, you know, like cause you 1:23:49.960 --> 1:23:51.760 know how you know you're still all the time, and 1:23:51.880 --> 1:23:55.759 so you think you remember how you felt in different 1:23:56.120 --> 1:24:01.839 situations and stuff, and uh, you know, I do remember 1:24:02.280 --> 1:24:04.040 the imagination vamp. 1:24:05.520 --> 1:24:08.240 How do you charte out your ad libs? Because they're 1:24:08.280 --> 1:24:15.960 so well, no, they're just so nuanced and so I mean, 1:24:16.000 --> 1:24:20.120 they're they're they're they're there their own universe that even 1:24:20.160 --> 1:24:23.040 in listening to it, like I feel as though you 1:24:23.920 --> 1:24:27.600 really mastered. That's why I said skilled, you mastered the 1:24:29.760 --> 1:24:32.000 the perfect pacing of an ad lib, because I mean 1:24:32.040 --> 1:24:34.439 people would think like, oh, yeah, just do you know? 1:24:34.479 --> 1:24:36.760 And I'm I'm guilty of that a lot where I'd 1:24:36.880 --> 1:24:38.920 tell singers like, okay, just ad lib at the end 1:24:38.960 --> 1:24:42.160 and see what happens, and no magic ever happens, but 1:24:42.320 --> 1:24:45.519 you like, you know, raise it and then lowered? Lais 1:24:45.560 --> 1:24:48.960 it lowered? And how do you do you take? 1:24:50.840 --> 1:24:57.360 I'm a musician too, you know, so, and yeah, you know, 1:24:57.600 --> 1:25:01.920 loving the a musician part of you know, a musician 1:25:02.000 --> 1:25:05.679 part of me. You know, it's just like it's a solo, 1:25:06.240 --> 1:25:09.200 you know. So like when you're taking a solo, there's 1:25:09.280 --> 1:25:11.439 a beginning, a middle, and then end. 1:25:12.360 --> 1:25:15.280 You know. So I'm you know, I'm not thinking that way. 1:25:15.920 --> 1:25:21.640 But you know, just the the artistic arc is, you 1:25:21.720 --> 1:25:25.560 know the energy I say, you know it's you know 1:25:25.680 --> 1:25:27.720 you ain't gonna start, you know, just. 1:25:28.200 --> 1:25:30.400 Nowhere to go? You know, nowhere to go? You know 1:25:30.560 --> 1:25:37.640 it's the thing a lesser, a lesser singer normally, like 1:25:37.760 --> 1:25:43.280 today cats go zero to sixty instantly giving themselves like 1:25:43.400 --> 1:25:47.680 no room to to build up to that point. And 1:25:47.880 --> 1:25:52.439 yet you know, I mean you're given sixteen bars to 1:25:53.320 --> 1:25:56.320 figure out how to get a point aid to Z 1:25:58.000 --> 1:26:02.080 and a very skillful like Navin gation. So how long 1:26:02.200 --> 1:26:05.920 does is the recording of like do you do your 1:26:05.960 --> 1:26:08.040 main vocals versus you don't lose your voice? And then 1:26:09.240 --> 1:26:11.120 do you come back to do the at limbs because 1:26:11.439 --> 1:26:19.200 that's some hard singing you're doing, or imagination on some songs. 1:26:21.080 --> 1:26:25.240 We would I would sing it and then go home 1:26:25.320 --> 1:26:29.720 and listen to it and know that, Okay, I was 1:26:29.800 --> 1:26:34.240 gonna have to you know, do do the vamp MH. 1:26:36.400 --> 1:26:42.320 I remember, because doing, I mean, the vamps are the 1:26:42.560 --> 1:26:45.040 art is there's an art of doing in doing the vamps. 1:26:45.280 --> 1:26:48.560 I remember, you know some of the emotions we have conversations, 1:26:48.600 --> 1:26:51.080 they call and I got to do my vamp tomorrow 1:26:51.200 --> 1:26:54.000 on this or that, you know, and we might you know, 1:26:54.320 --> 1:26:56.920 tell me, you know, listen to it, you know, give 1:26:57.000 --> 1:27:07.040 them some points, you know, you know, because at the 1:27:07.120 --> 1:27:10.320 end of a song, Jackson, Michael Jackson is the king 1:27:10.400 --> 1:27:12.640 of at libin. At the end of a song, I 1:27:12.720 --> 1:27:17.920 mean you know, you know the rhythm, the rhythm, you know, yes, 1:27:18.080 --> 1:27:21.240 that's the rhythm, the rhythm and how he builds you know, 1:27:22.320 --> 1:27:23.360 those songs. 1:27:23.400 --> 1:27:27.240 But the thing is that Mike, Mike will tend to 1:27:27.680 --> 1:27:29.600 get locked into a thing like the end of the 1:27:29.680 --> 1:27:31.640 things I do for you could also be the end 1:27:31.680 --> 1:27:34.479 of working day and night. Like he has this default 1:27:34.640 --> 1:27:37.240 go to thing where people and that's the thing. You 1:27:37.400 --> 1:27:41.080 don't have a default, That's what I'm saying, skilled, because 1:27:41.200 --> 1:27:44.400 you are one of the few at livers that now 1:27:44.439 --> 1:27:48.360 when Felipe won first, the only reason why I feel 1:27:48.360 --> 1:27:50.800 as though he's so masterful is because half the time 1:27:51.520 --> 1:27:53.840 that's the only part of the song he's allowed to sing. 1:27:54.800 --> 1:27:57.880 Because we I'm just slowly discovered, especially now having all 1:27:57.920 --> 1:28:03.320 the Soul Train episodes that ain't singing the lyrics. They 1:28:03.520 --> 1:28:05.479 just like, all right, Felipe, go and clean up. And 1:28:05.600 --> 1:28:07.840 you know, if you're giving like thirty seconds a sign 1:28:07.920 --> 1:28:10.400 you're gonna you're gonna go for it, say any and everything, 1:28:10.960 --> 1:28:15.800 but you never have a a route where it's like 1:28:15.920 --> 1:28:21.439 you repeat yourself or have a line. Actually, wait, can 1:28:21.520 --> 1:28:25.519 you explain to me what is the genesis of the 1:28:25.640 --> 1:28:26.200 body eye? 1:28:27.520 --> 1:28:28.640 I was waiting for you to ask that. 1:28:28.960 --> 1:28:31.560 No, I'm not talking about Bio the song, because I 1:28:31.560 --> 1:28:35.880 also want to know how that song did not make 1:28:35.960 --> 1:28:38.719 it and yet you guys found that little thirty second 1:28:38.800 --> 1:28:43.320 gem that, of course now everyone's favorite interlude of all time. 1:28:43.479 --> 1:28:46.080 But I'm just saying in general, the earth wind and 1:28:46.160 --> 1:28:50.720 Fire at lib is always a body out. Oh why 1:28:51.320 --> 1:28:52.640 why that specific. 1:28:52.800 --> 1:28:59.479 Memblee love Brazil sixty six? Oh we love we love, 1:28:59.560 --> 1:29:01.800 we love us some Brazil six six and we and 1:29:01.920 --> 1:29:03.080 we love Brazilian music. 1:29:03.680 --> 1:29:06.439 And we studied, you know, we studied that stuff, you 1:29:06.520 --> 1:29:07.040 know a lot. 1:29:07.240 --> 1:29:10.559 And you know in research, like you know, if if 1:29:10.600 --> 1:29:14.200 it's grooving, you know, he wouldn't wouldn't mess with it, 1:29:14.840 --> 1:29:17.880 you know, and it sings, you know it, you know 1:29:18.080 --> 1:29:21.880 it sings you know like you know, like a phrase 1:29:21.960 --> 1:29:23.000 on a horn or whatever. 1:29:23.760 --> 1:29:32.320 You know. Wow, So the actual song behl or how 1:29:32.360 --> 1:29:37.320 did you bayo b e I j bo? Yeah, yeah, 1:29:37.360 --> 1:29:40.719 I gotta find it. That was Milton, not some mental 1:29:42.320 --> 1:29:44.120 you know, because we were we were. 1:29:44.320 --> 1:29:47.639 He actually played with us when we were in in Brazil, 1:29:47.800 --> 1:29:50.240 you know, we played the stadium and stuff. We were 1:29:50.280 --> 1:29:52.439 big fans of his and stuff. But with the song 1:29:52.520 --> 1:29:54.720 and we did it, we did that song was with him. 1:29:55.200 --> 1:29:58.760 We did a song, but we didn't use a song. Yeah, 1:29:58.840 --> 1:30:02.439 why did that song make it? It goes all over 1:30:02.479 --> 1:30:04.560 the place. I could probably see why it made the 1:30:04.600 --> 1:30:05.360 cutting room floor. 1:30:05.800 --> 1:30:09.320 But more importantly is whose idea was it to find 1:30:10.280 --> 1:30:14.920 the right elements that led to the interlude of what 1:30:15.080 --> 1:30:21.800 we now know as the Wow Phil. 1:30:21.880 --> 1:30:23.680 How did y'all decide which songs will go to other 1:30:23.760 --> 1:30:25.040 artists and which will stand in the band? 1:30:26.560 --> 1:30:28.880 One song that didn't go to another to the artist 1:30:29.200 --> 1:30:32.519 who they had cut it for. Was it was it 1:30:33.240 --> 1:30:38.720 the Chambers Brothers or something? What was was Bookie Wonderland? 1:30:39.840 --> 1:30:41.680 It was like it was our had produced it on 1:30:41.880 --> 1:30:49.920 another group and Maurice heard it, you like come here, yeah, 1:30:50.520 --> 1:30:53.760 and you know that's how that's how we ended up doing. 1:30:56.120 --> 1:30:58.760 Charles also dies during the did he die before the 1:30:59.040 --> 1:31:05.479 spirit we were in it? M yeah? Midwait, so what 1:31:05.640 --> 1:31:08.920 did that do to the band's chemistry and hm hmm. 1:31:10.720 --> 1:31:13.320 What pressure was that on you guys to now take 1:31:13.400 --> 1:31:18.120 over the car now that you had no more driver. 1:31:20.800 --> 1:31:26.439 Yeah, I mean it was immant really because Maurice was 1:31:26.600 --> 1:31:30.479 so much in his zone with Charles, because see, he 1:31:30.600 --> 1:31:34.280 could think, he could think as far as he wanted 1:31:34.320 --> 1:31:37.240 to think, as fast as he wanted to think, and 1:31:37.479 --> 1:31:43.240 Charles musically was able to galvanize things and and then 1:31:44.760 --> 1:31:49.040 make it help and and Al McKay could put make 1:31:49.120 --> 1:31:52.280 a groove, so it was it was a team, you know, 1:31:53.720 --> 1:31:59.360 and Larry Dunn could make it sweet, you know, me 1:32:00.120 --> 1:32:00.639 do the vocals. 1:32:00.640 --> 1:32:03.120 So it was a great team. You know. 1:32:03.320 --> 1:32:09.160 When Charles left, there was a serious void because the 1:32:09.320 --> 1:32:14.200 only other person that that we found that he really 1:32:14.280 --> 1:32:18.360 respected like that, that we had success with was was 1:32:18.760 --> 1:32:19.400 David Foster. 1:32:20.040 --> 1:32:25.439 So it's essentially David Foster Charles's replacement. Like no Maurice 1:32:26.200 --> 1:32:28.920 figure or just an equal. He didn't need. 1:32:29.479 --> 1:32:33.799 He really the issue was, you know, really didn't respect 1:32:33.800 --> 1:32:36.600 a lot of different a lot of people, Okay, you know, 1:32:36.840 --> 1:32:39.840 definitely didn't need no father figure, you know, but he needed. 1:32:39.640 --> 1:32:42.320 So Charles wasn't the father figure, well, but he was 1:32:42.360 --> 1:32:43.080 the only one. 1:32:43.800 --> 1:32:45.519 He was the only you can say, really, get that 1:32:45.560 --> 1:32:47.639 ship out of here, you know, that's how you talk, 1:32:47.720 --> 1:32:50.120 you know, you know he could. He's the only one 1:32:50.560 --> 1:32:54.200 that talked how Reese talked to us. That's how the 1:32:54.960 --> 1:32:58.080 Charles talked to Rees. Really really get this shut out 1:32:58.120 --> 1:33:02.000 of here, you know, no, you know, but because he 1:33:02.160 --> 1:33:05.479 really respected Charles in that in that kind of way, 1:33:05.960 --> 1:33:07.640 so nobody ever replaced him. 1:33:08.600 --> 1:33:10.800 You know, no one ever replaced him. 1:33:10.840 --> 1:33:19.120 But David did have that same musical ability, not the same, 1:33:19.200 --> 1:33:22.759 but he had you know, had had a creditible music. 1:33:22.600 --> 1:33:27.120 Ability that Maurice respected. So we were able to besides 1:33:28.120 --> 1:33:30.160 besides wild was it. 1:33:31.880 --> 1:33:36.400 For new birth? Uh? Wild flower? Besides Wildflower? What? What 1:33:36.520 --> 1:33:40.439 did David have that at least got his rap out 1:33:40.479 --> 1:33:43.120 there with people like, yo, I'm gonna mess with him? 1:33:43.479 --> 1:33:47.320 Or well he you know, he has a really good 1:33:47.640 --> 1:33:54.720 sense of songs and you know, like and he was 1:33:54.840 --> 1:33:59.639 accomplished as a as a as a pianist. So him 1:33:59.680 --> 1:34:02.800 and Marie were able to you know, to craft you know, 1:34:03.000 --> 1:34:05.479 like in the Stone and all that kind of stuff, 1:34:05.760 --> 1:34:07.959 and Maurice was able to make it commercial. 1:34:09.840 --> 1:34:13.200 Okay, okay, but David didn't come for all and nod 1:34:13.280 --> 1:34:19.120 he what is the serpentine fire. Serpentine fire is the 1:34:19.360 --> 1:34:21.479 is the male sex drive? 1:34:23.760 --> 1:34:29.799 Viagrap No, that's something you take for the drive. 1:34:34.320 --> 1:34:41.120 Was how is passion? You know? You know LUs okay 1:34:41.240 --> 1:34:45.320 on the on the male side, serpentine. 1:34:46.840 --> 1:34:48.320 That's what you'reposed to have naturally. 1:34:48.479 --> 1:34:52.360 Word Okay, thank you anyway, But then all those lyrics 1:34:52.400 --> 1:34:54.040 will make sense to you now and you go read 1:34:54.040 --> 1:34:54.960 the lyrics now well. 1:34:55.080 --> 1:34:57.120 No, just seeing the commercial again with the with the 1:34:57.200 --> 1:34:59.640 whole you know, pyramids and stuff. I just thought you 1:34:59.720 --> 1:35:02.400 guys are just on because I had to ask for 1:35:02.479 --> 1:35:06.360 you the same thing what he certain fire? Okay, I'm 1:35:06.360 --> 1:35:17.560 a sing this, but so in seventy seven with the 1:35:17.640 --> 1:35:21.840 dawning of disco and you guys absolutely at your your 1:35:21.960 --> 1:35:27.040 your the highest heights of of your creativity. Serpentine Fire 1:35:27.200 --> 1:35:33.120 was such a risky song to uh put out. First 1:35:33.160 --> 1:35:35.439 of all, it's I mean it's half speed, so it's 1:35:35.520 --> 1:35:38.559 like seventy two bpms. I mean it's a hard funk song. 1:35:39.880 --> 1:35:42.200 But are you guys even aware of four on the 1:35:42.280 --> 1:35:47.519 floor culture and we hated it? Oh wow, so you 1:35:47.720 --> 1:35:53.280 made a because this we hated it. I'm just saying 1:35:53.320 --> 1:35:56.720 to this day, I can't even play. Yeah, what do 1:35:56.800 --> 1:36:01.240 you you don't like? Well, you can missing with trap rap. 1:36:01.240 --> 1:36:03.720 Like it wasn't going to where we we hated it, 1:36:03.840 --> 1:36:06.280 but wasn't going to place, so Reese we had to 1:36:06.400 --> 1:36:08.479 you know, there was nothing we could do, you know. 1:36:08.760 --> 1:36:10.640 You know Donna Summers had all those hits and. 1:36:12.520 --> 1:36:17.920 Maroder with his name, yeah Joe, and so our answer 1:36:18.080 --> 1:36:22.600 to uh disco was Boogie Wonderland. 1:36:24.000 --> 1:36:26.400 But that's seventy nine. But I'm saying in seventy seven, 1:36:28.880 --> 1:36:33.000 like was Walter Yetnakoff saying likes record? Yeah, like I 1:36:33.080 --> 1:36:36.599 gotta no one ever, no one ever. 1:36:38.000 --> 1:36:42.519 Executives didn't ever get in Maurice's artistic thing. You know, 1:36:42.600 --> 1:36:45.920 they never you know that to my knowledge, no one 1:36:46.000 --> 1:36:49.800 ever came and said, you know, okay, yeah, you know 1:36:49.920 --> 1:36:50.680 you should do. 1:36:50.880 --> 1:36:51.880 This that or the other. 1:36:53.080 --> 1:36:56.040 You know, I don't know who talked him in. I 1:36:56.120 --> 1:36:59.120 was probably bobbing caval and Ruffalo talked him into the 1:36:59.240 --> 1:37:00.080 power like though. 1:37:01.640 --> 1:37:08.479 I didn't even wasn't talking, wasn't talking to me. Do 1:37:08.640 --> 1:37:13.280 you remember do you remember recording running? Do you remember 1:37:13.360 --> 1:37:22.160 what that was like? Yes? Yeah, yep. What was the 1:37:22.280 --> 1:37:25.840 vibe like in that? Who was it supposed to be lyrics. No, okay, 1:37:26.920 --> 1:37:29.639 that would have messed that song totally, man too much. 1:37:29.720 --> 1:37:32.160 I would assume that Body Eye songs are songs that 1:37:32.360 --> 1:37:36.280 will later be added lyrics. Well, hence what's your name? 1:37:36.320 --> 1:37:41.000 Telling me? Ali willis telling that about well, no, when 1:37:41.040 --> 1:37:44.799 she grows September September, that's right. She said that Body 1:37:44.880 --> 1:37:46.800 Eye was just a placement and then they were going 1:37:46.880 --> 1:37:49.280 to think of something later and it never got to it, 1:37:49.400 --> 1:37:54.240 so they just left it, right. I just okay, So. 1:37:55.000 --> 1:37:57.000 Yeah, Running is one of my favors. I love that song. Man, 1:37:57.080 --> 1:37:59.160 y'all sounded that. I love that record. 1:37:59.800 --> 1:38:01.960 How did you guys get a relationship with Doug Henning 1:38:02.760 --> 1:38:06.519 because I'm totally forgetting that. You guys damn near invented 1:38:06.680 --> 1:38:11.839 black theater and Doug Henning is Doug Henning the magician. 1:38:11.960 --> 1:38:13.920 He would have been the David Blaine of his day. 1:38:15.920 --> 1:38:19.040 So a big part of black music culture is taking 1:38:20.680 --> 1:38:24.439 the Chitlin Circuit or Motown. I guess the Motown Review 1:38:24.600 --> 1:38:29.120 was the height of black excellence in concert and what 1:38:29.560 --> 1:38:32.360 many will credit Earth Would and Fire to do that 1:38:32.439 --> 1:38:36.120 will later inspire Parliament, Funk, Cadelic and then further inspire 1:38:36.200 --> 1:38:44.400 the Jacksons is introducing theater. So the idea of verdein 1:38:44.920 --> 1:38:52.439 levitating during his bass silo or explosions and the drums, 1:38:52.479 --> 1:38:55.120 we did the drums where the spinning drums. Yeah, if 1:38:55.160 --> 1:38:58.360 Philly wants my aunt cried, you're I guess doing that 1:38:58.479 --> 1:39:00.760 all the Yeah, you remember this. 1:39:00.840 --> 1:39:03.479 Night where we go into that pyramid thing and then 1:39:04.040 --> 1:39:08.479 you know, it disappears and then the the androids or 1:39:08.520 --> 1:39:11.400 whatever come up to the state that put us in 1:39:11.520 --> 1:39:13.320 there and they take their hats. 1:39:13.080 --> 1:39:16.880 Off and us. But I think during the intro of 1:39:16.920 --> 1:39:19.519 the All and altour, you guys came down these tubes. Yeah, 1:39:20.000 --> 1:39:21.160 and you're on the same. 1:39:22.720 --> 1:39:25.639 Or so it's on the same that's on the same 1:39:26.320 --> 1:39:32.599 concert the tubes and the pyramid disappearing and right, well. 1:39:33.120 --> 1:39:34.960 I guess in the Philly show your tube they can 1:39:35.040 --> 1:39:39.320 go up, so like guys had to run and manually 1:39:39.479 --> 1:39:42.840 lift you out or whatever, like the smoking, you know, 1:39:43.680 --> 1:39:46.800 added exaggeration. I guess you thought you were gonna die 1:39:46.920 --> 1:39:50.640 or something. I don't know. But who, like, how do 1:39:50.720 --> 1:39:53.840 you guys rehearse that stuff or who conceptualizes is that 1:39:53.960 --> 1:39:54.880 all duck inning or. 1:39:56.720 --> 1:40:00.600 Now you know Vernon with no exactly because he's the 1:40:01.040 --> 1:40:06.560 totally historian. I don't remember if Doug did that particular 1:40:07.439 --> 1:40:14.160 show because we were working with several people at that time, 1:40:16.120 --> 1:40:19.679 all right, but I mean we was working with Doug Henny, 1:40:19.880 --> 1:40:21.479 David Copperfield. 1:40:22.280 --> 1:40:27.200 Really right, right, And so did you feel a certain 1:40:27.280 --> 1:40:29.720 way did you guys feel a certain way when other 1:40:29.880 --> 1:40:32.480 acts the Jacksons. 1:40:33.840 --> 1:40:36.120 Were starting to levint eight as well and explode and 1:40:37.400 --> 1:40:42.160 h let me you think, yeah, would you go see shows? Okay, yo, 1:40:42.400 --> 1:40:42.760 for sure. 1:40:43.080 --> 1:40:45.320 So if you're watching the Jackson's like, oh yeah, because I. 1:40:45.280 --> 1:40:47.639 Went to kans I flew to Kansas City to watch 1:40:47.760 --> 1:40:51.800 the Jackson's and all that stuff. Yeah, man, but and 1:40:52.000 --> 1:40:55.840 it was that was one of the best shows I've 1:40:55.880 --> 1:41:00.720 ever seen, you know, just timing the production, performances and 1:41:00.760 --> 1:41:01.320 all this stuff. 1:41:01.320 --> 1:41:05.000 It was like crazy. But did you guys feel like 1:41:06.680 --> 1:41:09.240 that this is your thing and suddenly everyone else is 1:41:09.280 --> 1:41:09.760 taken a cue? 1:41:10.000 --> 1:41:12.600 Like, well, it really wasn't our thing though, to be 1:41:12.800 --> 1:41:16.280 quite honest about we were maybe we're the first African 1:41:16.400 --> 1:41:19.360 American band to start doing it, but you got to 1:41:19.560 --> 1:41:22.960 remember that the rock groups were doing. 1:41:23.120 --> 1:41:27.240 I forgot doing it. They were doing stuff all right. Now, 1:41:27.360 --> 1:41:32.960 I am what are your feelings on I am. If anything, 1:41:33.040 --> 1:41:35.479 I figure you have a feeling about I AM more 1:41:35.560 --> 1:41:40.559 than Race. No, I am was still everybody was steal 1:41:40.640 --> 1:41:46.120 in pocket. The team was still together pretty much. I am. 1:41:46.200 --> 1:41:51.200 It's probably the last great earth wind Fire records in 1:41:51.400 --> 1:41:59.439 your opinion, in my opinion, So in your mind, your 1:41:59.479 --> 1:42:05.120 classic cannon it ends with with I am, Yeah, because 1:42:05.160 --> 1:42:08.720 it's all in all before that, well, all in all 1:42:09.000 --> 1:42:09.240 I Am. 1:42:09.360 --> 1:42:09.960 Then Faces. 1:42:10.600 --> 1:42:13.680 Oh no, but Faces, no faces, I will say a 1:42:13.680 --> 1:42:16.519 couple of jam I think, you know, I thought I 1:42:16.640 --> 1:42:19.560 was just I was really disappointed that Faces didn't do 1:42:20.040 --> 1:42:23.680 better because I did think it was what happened. 1:42:23.400 --> 1:42:27.559 Because all the elements were there, like love goes on, Yeah, 1:42:29.320 --> 1:42:33.519 all the elements are there. Oh yeah, no pun intended, 1:42:34.040 --> 1:42:35.960 but yeah, all the elements were there. Do you thing 1:42:36.000 --> 1:42:38.200 go to that? Fair better if you guys just made 1:42:38.240 --> 1:42:40.000 it a single album or yeah? 1:42:40.040 --> 1:42:42.880 Probably for that, you know when you're thinking about it now. 1:42:45.680 --> 1:42:48.240 They still wren't gold. So it wasn't a failure and 1:42:48.360 --> 1:42:51.360 it was a double record. It might have been better 1:42:51.400 --> 1:42:54.639 if they had done it. Who knows, But I thought 1:42:54.760 --> 1:42:56.360 that I thought the record was was sound. 1:42:58.400 --> 1:43:01.360 It wasn't better. It had movement, They had moments to it. 1:43:02.600 --> 1:43:05.160 My first my first actual win. If I record that 1:43:05.240 --> 1:43:07.840 I own, I got for Christmas. My uncle brought me 1:43:07.960 --> 1:43:09.240 Touch the world, believe it or not. 1:43:16.400 --> 1:43:21.040 That was my first official A young buz fire to babies. 1:43:24.080 --> 1:43:25.960 But when you have the boys come out for heritage, 1:43:26.320 --> 1:43:30.800 come on, y'all, y'all official, y'allll official with me at 1:43:30.840 --> 1:43:34.599 that point, man, I'm glad you said that we got 1:43:34.720 --> 1:43:40.080 the work. We got dogs. Oh my god. Yeah, it 1:43:40.160 --> 1:43:43.719 works for me. It worked, It worked on me, It worked. 1:43:44.520 --> 1:43:47.160 You had me. I was like, because heritage was ninety 1:43:49.520 --> 1:43:53.560 age I was twelve. I definitely feel as though that 1:43:53.800 --> 1:43:57.040 album is responsible for why they are the sons of 1:43:57.200 --> 1:44:01.040 what are they now? Yeah? You know where they are now? 1:44:01.120 --> 1:44:04.280 Like they're they're they like fire. 1:44:04.400 --> 1:44:06.200 They moved Africa, they moved to the continent. 1:44:06.600 --> 1:44:09.400 They moved to Africa. They they're the suns of light. 1:44:09.680 --> 1:44:11.080 They have locks, long locks. 1:44:11.160 --> 1:44:15.120 And where did you guys had an effect on them 1:44:15.240 --> 1:44:16.599 with with the Herodage album? 1:44:16.640 --> 1:44:20.479 Because if somebody plays the flute, one of them, yeah yeah, 1:44:20.520 --> 1:44:24.320 one of uh talk about the Illumination album, the one 1:44:24.640 --> 1:44:27.080 because y'all worked with Brian McKnight on the record. 1:44:28.520 --> 1:44:33.600 Raphael, Yeah, what was that record, like and someone else record, No, 1:44:34.320 --> 1:44:35.880 just a Japan edition. I think it was right. 1:44:40.040 --> 1:44:42.880 Back before record labels realized there was only one internet, 1:44:43.200 --> 1:44:49.960 right the dude, this will be out by midnight. No, 1:44:50.080 --> 1:44:52.560 it's out everywhere. But talk about that record, that was 1:44:53.400 --> 1:44:55.000 for a lot of people considered like a quote unquote 1:44:55.000 --> 1:44:57.800 comeback record. But what was it like, what was the 1:44:58.080 --> 1:45:00.040 chemistry like with you and Maurice working. 1:45:01.640 --> 1:45:05.400 It was Our chemistry was okay, but that was it 1:45:05.520 --> 1:45:08.439 was a very tough time for us yet because he 1:45:08.680 --> 1:45:12.439 you know, his Parkinson's disease had really set set in 1:45:12.640 --> 1:45:16.679 and it taken the ability his ability to perform and sing, 1:45:17.479 --> 1:45:20.640 you know, so he wasn't singing nearly as strong or 1:45:21.680 --> 1:45:23.720 or you know, in the way that he would want to. 1:45:23.960 --> 1:45:25.479 You know, they had he had in the past. 1:45:26.680 --> 1:45:29.639 So you know, a lot of you know, I did 1:45:30.080 --> 1:45:32.640 a lot of singing on that record, and then we 1:45:32.720 --> 1:45:37.320 started you know, using other people to in in the 1:45:37.600 --> 1:45:40.880 in the backgrounds and stuff. So it was you know, 1:45:42.080 --> 1:45:47.720 it had mixed emotions about it, you know, but it 1:45:47.840 --> 1:45:50.720 was fun working with everybody that was on you know, 1:45:51.240 --> 1:45:56.040 we worked with on a project, especially Flowa Tree Floaty 1:45:56.120 --> 1:45:58.880 is on that project too, right, right, and music so 1:45:59.080 --> 1:46:03.120 child and yeah it was it was fun. That was fun. 1:46:03.600 --> 1:46:06.160 Okay, So now let's reach back just a little bit. 1:46:07.760 --> 1:46:09.679 We we definitely have to get to your solo career 1:46:10.360 --> 1:46:17.000 because there's a generation of people. You're also an MTV 1:46:17.320 --> 1:46:20.840 Award winner. I forgot he's the number one man walking 1:46:20.880 --> 1:46:22.759 on Chinese. Well that was the best of both fields. 1:46:24.280 --> 1:46:27.320 It was the best of both fields. What but you 1:46:27.479 --> 1:46:34.479 work with George Duke on continuation, right, I know that's 1:46:34.520 --> 1:46:42.599 my joint. Uh, that's my cut. Yes. So stepping away 1:46:42.640 --> 1:46:46.519 from the band, did you think at the time after 1:46:46.600 --> 1:46:50.559 Electric Universe did that Okay, well I'm leaving the band 1:46:50.640 --> 1:46:53.040 or it's just like what what? What took you so 1:46:53.160 --> 1:46:54.240 long to do a solo record? 1:46:55.680 --> 1:46:59.360 I didn't actually take me a long time because I 1:46:59.479 --> 1:47:07.200 was always doing other stuff, especially after the you know, 1:47:07.320 --> 1:47:12.280 the extensive touring and all that kind of stuff, just 1:47:12.360 --> 1:47:17.360 to have a different outlet to really, you know, just 1:47:17.800 --> 1:47:19.680 have my own autonomy. 1:47:20.120 --> 1:47:22.679 You were on a Polino da Costa album. Yeah, yeah, 1:47:24.160 --> 1:47:26.600 and then you know, I did three gospel albums and. 1:47:26.920 --> 1:47:28.800 I was going to ask because you got a lot 1:47:28.880 --> 1:47:29.479 of play. 1:47:29.520 --> 1:47:30.960 Yeah, I want to grab me for one of them. 1:47:31.000 --> 1:47:34.679 For triumph on Philly Christian radio. You were a mainstay. 1:47:35.280 --> 1:47:39.599 But why weren't the Christian albums on CBS as well? 1:47:40.400 --> 1:47:43.680 It was subsidiary. Oh no, it was on their own 1:47:43.720 --> 1:47:49.600 word and one. Yeah they were saying, yeah, you know 1:47:49.720 --> 1:47:54.840 that was a different time, and the yeah, they gave 1:47:54.920 --> 1:47:58.120 me the right to go and do that on a 1:47:58.200 --> 1:47:58.920 Christian label. 1:47:59.720 --> 1:48:04.560 They didn't have a right marketing Christian distribution and all that. 1:48:05.240 --> 1:48:09.280 Okay, I see, So what in promoting those records, how 1:48:09.640 --> 1:48:14.840 was the the circuit different? Like, well, I toured with 1:48:15.400 --> 1:48:20.439 Amy Grant, you know that was that was that was fun. 1:48:20.479 --> 1:48:22.080 That was fun too. I got I got all, I 1:48:22.160 --> 1:48:23.080 got all my equipment. 1:48:23.160 --> 1:48:26.599 So stole the second data of the of the concert 1:48:27.920 --> 1:48:31.720 YEP in the in Florida, they backed, they backed to 1:48:31.880 --> 1:48:37.519 the truck up against the h the actual hotel and 1:48:37.600 --> 1:48:39.920 stuff and took the mission out. 1:48:40.320 --> 1:48:41.560 You know, because they because they knew that. 1:48:41.640 --> 1:48:44.840 They said, you know this in Florida they were notorious 1:48:44.880 --> 1:48:49.360 for stealing you know those you know those trucks and stuff. Man, 1:48:49.680 --> 1:48:52.920 they told that truck away. Wow, they told the whole 1:48:52.960 --> 1:48:55.800 truck away. And and I had to I was in 1:48:55.920 --> 1:48:59.519 debt for three four years. What had Yeah, because I 1:48:59.600 --> 1:49:02.160 had to pay for everybody's equipment. That was my fir 1:49:02.840 --> 1:49:06.799 of my first solo experience, no no touris. 1:49:09.360 --> 1:49:19.200 I think Michael W. Smith did it. He was so funny. Sorry, okay, 1:49:19.280 --> 1:49:21.640 Michael W. So you gotta tell like, yeah, that was 1:49:21.680 --> 1:49:27.840 her first husband. Oh I'm sorry first. 1:49:29.680 --> 1:49:32.400 Oh yeah, cause she's married. Okayeah, she married to Vince somebody? Yeah, 1:49:32.479 --> 1:49:34.920 thank you? Whoa what Vince Gil You've ever been married 1:49:34.960 --> 1:49:36.200 for like over decades? 1:49:36.640 --> 1:49:39.880 What? I never knew that. Yo. As soon as they 1:49:39.920 --> 1:49:41.840 did that song House I Love you remember that, I 1:49:42.000 --> 1:49:44.360 was like, there's something going on between them two because 1:49:44.600 --> 1:49:46.640 that song was too good for just, you know, just 1:49:46.680 --> 1:49:50.240 to be a random question. Yeah yeah, oh, Amy grant Man. 1:49:50.640 --> 1:49:52.680 It was a period where only Christian radio was on 1:49:52.880 --> 1:49:55.960 my household, like my parents are just only did Christian radio. 1:49:56.080 --> 1:49:58.680 Same here, so same here, and let me back that. 1:49:58.880 --> 1:50:02.519 That introduced me to Bailey's voice by way of Andre Crouch, 1:50:03.240 --> 1:50:05.720 I've got the best, Come on, brother. I used to 1:50:05.840 --> 1:50:07.760 play that song to death when I was a kid. 1:50:08.800 --> 1:50:11.360 That's right. I forgot that. And Martins did something with 1:50:11.439 --> 1:50:17.840 the Hawkins family. Yeah, we both did on their anniversary record. Okay, Okay, Steve. 1:50:19.439 --> 1:50:24.040 Okay, I'm sure everybody here and there's the same amount 1:50:24.080 --> 1:50:24.439 as I do. 1:50:24.640 --> 1:50:27.120 But I know, but I feel horrible like all the 1:50:27.160 --> 1:50:29.240 Phil Collins. No, so. 1:50:30.880 --> 1:50:33.120 You and Phil Collins both have the same first name. 1:50:33.280 --> 1:50:37.920 Was that what's going on? That a coincidence or the 1:50:38.040 --> 1:50:38.880 marketing scheme? 1:50:41.320 --> 1:50:44.720 Why? Okay? Why did you want Why was he your 1:50:44.800 --> 1:50:48.320 chosen producer for Chinese Wall Wall? 1:50:49.120 --> 1:50:49.280 Oh? 1:50:49.760 --> 1:50:55.120 Okay, two questions, because actually the Phoenix Horns were playing 1:50:55.920 --> 1:51:00.839 with him on his you know, on his uh record 1:51:01.120 --> 1:51:04.760 and tour, and when they played in Los Angeles. I 1:51:04.840 --> 1:51:08.240 went to the show and and I wasn't really that 1:51:08.479 --> 1:51:11.680 familiar with Phil's music, but I was very impressed with 1:51:12.120 --> 1:51:15.320 the songs and stuff, and I was getting ready to 1:51:15.360 --> 1:51:20.320 do my second record, and so I said, man, it's 1:51:20.400 --> 1:51:24.759 crazy idea, but let's see if Phil has any songs 1:51:24.800 --> 1:51:27.439 that I could do on my second record. And the 1:51:28.280 --> 1:51:31.080 company and my manager says, well, why don't we talk 1:51:31.120 --> 1:51:34.120 to me about producing your you know, your second record? 1:51:35.400 --> 1:51:39.320 I know that was his dream, yeah, because so we Yeah, 1:51:39.360 --> 1:51:41.320 that always imagined a fun Time. 1:51:41.800 --> 1:51:46.200 That's the fifteenth member of house fun Time. Fun Time. 1:51:46.680 --> 1:51:48.519 From the video, it looked like it was fun. It 1:51:48.640 --> 1:51:51.920 was very it's very natural, I mean, and nothing, but 1:51:52.080 --> 1:51:57.920 none of that was staged. They picked me up and 1:51:58.120 --> 1:52:02.879 from in the helicopter and to the studio site. Cameras 1:52:02.920 --> 1:52:07.479 were running, cameras running everything, and you know everything. They 1:52:07.560 --> 1:52:09.760 just filmed everything and we got finished. We sang the 1:52:09.800 --> 1:52:11.960 song a couple times. They said, Okay, yeah, that's it. 1:52:12.160 --> 1:52:14.200 I said, well, we're gonna do the video. You just 1:52:14.360 --> 1:52:16.240 y'all just did it. You ever see the video. 1:52:16.120 --> 1:52:17.360 Line are you out of your. 1:52:22.240 --> 1:52:26.559 I'm not the y'all, but it's usually the dance moves, 1:52:26.640 --> 1:52:29.680 like I know, and then when they do believe it. 1:52:30.439 --> 1:52:32.200 Back in the day when HBO used to show music 1:52:32.280 --> 1:52:35.280 videos in between movies, they did, we want an MTV 1:52:35.520 --> 1:52:38.200 Award for that too. Yes, you're an MTV Award winner 1:52:38.240 --> 1:52:38.559 as well. 1:52:38.840 --> 1:52:42.200 No, I was saying that Phil Collins is notorious for 1:52:42.400 --> 1:52:46.719 making all of his videos videos about making videos. 1:52:48.680 --> 1:52:52.320 He's done it four times. I can't dance like video 1:52:52.400 --> 1:52:56.240 directors explained to him in the video what you should do, baby, 1:52:56.280 --> 1:52:58.880 don't you lose my number? The same thing where a 1:52:59.000 --> 1:53:01.800 video director trying to explain to him, well, let's do 1:53:01.880 --> 1:53:03.880 it like this, let's do it like that. An easy 1:53:03.960 --> 1:53:10.320 Lover is basically very like Candid just him and phil 1:53:10.680 --> 1:53:15.960 uh Philip, Wow, you're right, they both have the same name. 1:53:18.800 --> 1:53:20.800 It's like one of the best videos of our time 1:53:21.520 --> 1:53:22.000 Easy Lover. 1:53:22.200 --> 1:53:24.880 Like, man, I remember that song would come on and 1:53:25.080 --> 1:53:29.240 like when I realized it was both feels I lost 1:53:29.280 --> 1:53:29.559 my mother? 1:53:33.640 --> 1:53:37.840 Do you right give it up? Because that's one of 1:53:37.880 --> 1:53:42.600 the greatest song intros ever to Wait did we do it? 1:53:43.000 --> 1:53:44.920 We tried that once. Yeah, he sat in on this 1:53:45.120 --> 1:53:47.760 on the show. No, no, I'm talking about we uh 1:53:49.080 --> 1:53:53.200 samp or something. I think during Game Theory we tried 1:53:53.280 --> 1:53:57.160 to figure out a way to incorporate that intro best 1:53:57.200 --> 1:54:03.040 intro ever? Are you are? Are your songs allowed to ever? 1:54:04.479 --> 1:54:04.519 Be? 1:54:04.720 --> 1:54:07.120 Messing and earth Wind and fire shows are not, Like, 1:54:08.160 --> 1:54:10.800 I'm sure you haven't contingency of people asking for easy 1:54:10.840 --> 1:54:15.080 Lover during fire You know, we we did for a 1:54:15.200 --> 1:54:18.000 little while. I mean, like a few shows or something 1:54:18.040 --> 1:54:24.280 like that, back when Morris Pleasure was in the band. 1:54:24.320 --> 1:54:27.479 Because Morris is a keyboardist and a bass player. Okay, 1:54:28.600 --> 1:54:32.800 so and on that he would play the bass. But yeah, 1:54:32.840 --> 1:54:35.800 there's so many songs to do until we haven't done it. 1:54:36.280 --> 1:54:41.720 So I have one more question about easy Lover. No, No, 1:54:41.920 --> 1:54:45.320 But were there other Phil Collins songs on Chinese Wall 1:54:45.480 --> 1:54:46.800 that you can contribute to them? 1:54:48.640 --> 1:54:50.480 No, that was the only That was the only one 1:54:50.600 --> 1:54:52.920 that we We wrote that at the end of the 1:54:53.000 --> 1:54:55.080 project because it was listening back to everything. 1:54:56.800 --> 1:54:57.640 Always the case. 1:54:57.720 --> 1:55:01.600 That's always a narrative always, you know, because you know 1:55:01.720 --> 1:55:05.480 what needs to happen. And so Nathan started that base 1:55:05.560 --> 1:55:07.000 thing and we just kind of figured it out. 1:55:08.880 --> 1:55:16.480 Who are the other musicians on that album set? Let 1:55:16.520 --> 1:55:17.880 me just look, it's right here in front of me. 1:55:19.520 --> 1:55:21.600 A special shout out to Children of the Ghetto. I 1:55:21.720 --> 1:55:24.360 love that record too. So yeah, well you have all 1:55:24.400 --> 1:55:27.160 the monsters on here. Well you have a lot of okay, 1:55:27.640 --> 1:55:33.000 of course you have the the Phoenix Orens, wait are 1:55:33.040 --> 1:55:43.160 Reef Martin? Digit strings? So now now that you're leader 1:55:43.280 --> 1:55:46.920 by default, right, how many shows do you and you 1:55:47.080 --> 1:55:48.800 do a lot of shows with Chicago. 1:55:49.480 --> 1:55:52.200 Yes, well we've done We've done a lot of tours, 1:55:53.240 --> 1:55:56.400 uh with them over the last. 1:55:58.640 --> 1:56:01.440 Fifteen years or so. Peter sa Terra still singing with it. 1:56:01.640 --> 1:56:05.760 No, guy who's singing singing with him now is kind 1:56:05.800 --> 1:56:08.120 of like a ringer. Though I saw the show in 1:56:08.200 --> 1:56:11.520 twenty fifteen it was a great show. I'm wearing the 1:56:11.560 --> 1:56:15.640 shirt I bought at the show. Wait, I do have 1:56:15.720 --> 1:56:17.600 a question. I saw something that was kind of crazy. 1:56:18.480 --> 1:56:23.200 I saw earth Winding Fire on ice. Wow, oh right, 1:56:23.400 --> 1:56:24.160 the production thing? 1:56:24.400 --> 1:56:25.480 How did that come to be? 1:56:26.000 --> 1:56:27.920 Like, let me see, I don't I don't even remember 1:56:27.960 --> 1:56:32.440 how how that actually, I don't remember how it came 1:56:32.480 --> 1:56:32.640 to be. 1:56:34.120 --> 1:56:36.960 Yeah, it was just crazy. I was turning the channel 1:56:37.000 --> 1:56:41.440 one day and at one point, when I think September 1:56:41.520 --> 1:56:44.000 is playing, I was like, wow, it's it's a weird 1:56:44.080 --> 1:56:47.120 backing track. And then I realized that earth Wind and 1:56:47.160 --> 1:56:50.200 Fire was actually a part of earth Wind and Fire 1:56:50.240 --> 1:56:54.760 were nice question about September. History is showing that that's 1:56:54.920 --> 1:56:58.600 probably the most loved earth Wind and Fire song. But 1:56:58.760 --> 1:57:02.520 at the time I wouldn't have called, oh, September is 1:57:02.560 --> 1:57:03.080 gonna be the. 1:57:04.280 --> 1:57:06.640 Well, we must be brothers of the same lives then, 1:57:07.000 --> 1:57:10.360 because when they got finished with it and they played 1:57:10.400 --> 1:57:16.680 it for me, I was like, crickets, crickets, Wow, okay, 1:57:16.880 --> 1:57:21.520 all right, I said, sounds so simple to me. That's 1:57:21.520 --> 1:57:24.040 the way, you know, because it was just that, you know, 1:57:24.320 --> 1:57:26.800 because we were so used to having all kinds of the. 1:57:26.800 --> 1:57:31.360 Formula by then, and but I was totally wrong. Yeah, 1:57:31.400 --> 1:57:34.280 people were chosen. It's kind of a controversial question. Is 1:57:34.320 --> 1:57:37.000 there a fan favorite that you just don't like flat out? 1:57:37.800 --> 1:57:42.880 Not really besides reasons at weddings? Yeah, not really. 1:57:44.400 --> 1:57:46.240 Were any other records in y'all cat out that you 1:57:46.280 --> 1:57:48.760 thought would be bigger that like you really like but 1:57:48.840 --> 1:57:51.200 maybe they didn't do as as well as you thought. 1:57:51.680 --> 1:57:58.760 Hmm uh. You know a song I really like you 1:57:58.760 --> 1:58:02.520 should and Love Goes On? Yes, that was off of Faces. 1:58:03.360 --> 1:58:04.080 I love that song. 1:58:04.400 --> 1:58:08.720 Yeah, Now I thought that that was you know, I 1:58:08.800 --> 1:58:12.400 thought the energy on that was really it's really that 1:58:12.520 --> 1:58:14.360 to me is classic earth wind Fire. 1:58:14.520 --> 1:58:16.400 Actually, I have some questions from a friend of mine 1:58:16.400 --> 1:58:19.240 who's probably the biggest earth wind in Fire on the planet. 1:58:21.680 --> 1:58:25.120 Here's one. I'll give you the easiest question. First, how 1:58:25.160 --> 1:58:27.200 did Brenda Russell come into the picture to write song 1:58:27.320 --> 1:58:31.240 in my Heart for the Faces album? Oh? I got 1:58:31.320 --> 1:58:33.280 a song with my heart that one? 1:58:33.600 --> 1:58:38.240 Well, and you know, Brenda's iconic as a lyric writer, 1:58:38.400 --> 1:58:42.120 and I was. I was so excited about I've worked 1:58:42.120 --> 1:58:46.920 with her quite a few times. Fact, have a little 1:58:46.920 --> 1:58:51.160 crush on it really, but no, she's very, very talented 1:58:51.320 --> 1:59:02.440 and uh uh Maurice, uh actually called her. That's how 1:59:02.480 --> 1:59:05.920 we begin, you know, to work together and stuff. But yeah, 1:59:06.640 --> 1:59:10.840 and now for the more more difficult questions. Astrology played 1:59:10.880 --> 1:59:12.600 a big part in the presentation in the name of 1:59:12.640 --> 1:59:14.840 the band, where the other members of the band as 1:59:14.840 --> 1:59:16.920 observant of the philosophy as as Maurice. 1:59:16.800 --> 1:59:22.200 Was, No, not at all, not at all, and just 1:59:22.320 --> 1:59:26.240 this must be deep. So let's roll with it. What 1:59:26.320 --> 1:59:28.240 do you ever like call you know, let's talk about 1:59:28.480 --> 1:59:30.600 you know, this and that, or like where their meetings, 1:59:30.640 --> 1:59:33.360 where he was, you know, kind of explain things that 1:59:33.440 --> 1:59:35.040 he was thinking, or you know, this is what the 1:59:35.080 --> 1:59:37.400 album cover means, or because there's a lot of symbolism 1:59:37.480 --> 1:59:42.280 going on on there. So no, no, he never he 1:59:42.440 --> 1:59:44.240 never did explain. 1:59:44.960 --> 1:59:50.960 Uh no, no, you just saw it after it was conceived, 1:59:51.480 --> 1:59:54.360 Like anytime did the band was like, you know, what 1:59:54.600 --> 1:59:55.640 the what's all this crap? 1:59:55.760 --> 1:59:58.440 You know? Or did it You guys were just used 1:59:58.480 --> 2:00:00.720 to it. Yeah, we were. 2:00:00.840 --> 2:00:03.080 We were pretty much used to it because you got 2:00:03.320 --> 2:00:06.480 under you guys. You have to understand that Reese had 2:00:06.800 --> 2:00:10.000 he had the experience, and he had the tenure. You know, 2:00:10.160 --> 2:00:12.760 he'd been on the road, he had been touring, he 2:00:12.800 --> 2:00:19.680 had been successful as a writer, producer, recording with with 2:00:20.000 --> 2:00:25.640 Chess and performed with with with Ramsey. We were just 2:00:25.720 --> 2:00:29.600 coming from mama, you know what I'm saying. You know 2:00:29.720 --> 2:00:32.840 in college, you know, so you know, every day was 2:00:32.880 --> 2:00:35.400 a good day for us. You know, it's like, okay, 2:00:35.480 --> 2:00:36.480 which way we go now? 2:00:37.360 --> 2:00:42.000 You know, here's another easy one besides Milton Nacimento, is 2:00:42.480 --> 2:00:46.040 am I saying that? Right? Okay? Were there were there 2:00:46.080 --> 2:00:49.680 any other Afro Latin musicians that inspired you guys? Like 2:00:49.880 --> 2:01:00.919 what were you guys all listening to Phil? Yes? 2:01:01.200 --> 2:01:05.280 Were you guys aware of him in real time or like, no, 2:01:05.440 --> 2:01:08.040 we were just recent We know we were aware of 2:01:08.160 --> 2:01:09.280 him back in the seventies. 2:01:10.240 --> 2:01:13.440 How many did you guys go to Africa during the 2:01:13.600 --> 2:01:16.280 heyday of earth Wind and Fire. No, just to visit? 2:01:16.560 --> 2:01:25.240 Never right, never to play Wow. Wow, I imagine an 2:01:25.240 --> 2:01:31.440 earth Wind and show and Egypt Dude, dude, that's crazy. 2:01:31.640 --> 2:01:35.120 I saw you guys like went there so all those 2:01:35.200 --> 2:01:38.360 like interlusing and stuff that's just like visiting Marie's visiting 2:01:38.520 --> 2:01:41.320 or that sort of thing. And no, no, we went 2:01:41.400 --> 2:01:45.880 to to We went to Egypt, you know with all 2:01:45.920 --> 2:01:47.800 the stuff that in the pyramid stuff that you're talking 2:01:48.280 --> 2:01:50.360 freaking up. No, we were there. We went there just 2:01:50.400 --> 2:01:55.560 to visit. Wow, as you know, yeah, we went to visit. 2:01:55.760 --> 2:01:57.600 Is that the only country you guys visited in the. 2:01:59.120 --> 2:02:06.240 Yeah, to visit. Okay, okay, So today you're you're working 2:02:06.320 --> 2:02:10.160 on Chilo uh material right now? You have a project 2:02:10.200 --> 2:02:11.080 coming up. Yeah. 2:02:11.200 --> 2:02:14.440 Yeah, it's it's called Love for Finding a Way and 2:02:15.520 --> 2:02:20.400 it's a collective project of some like great friends Chick 2:02:20.480 --> 2:02:22.400 Corea and Christian. 2:02:22.160 --> 2:02:26.080 McBride Christian went high school Christian. 2:02:26.200 --> 2:02:37.240 Yeah, yeah, Camasi Washington, you know, Christian Scott More Jazz 2:02:37.360 --> 2:02:41.560 Leanings or well, you know, it's a it's a record 2:02:41.640 --> 2:02:45.040 that we took a couple of blouse on the record. 2:02:45.760 --> 2:02:46.040 Wow. 2:02:47.360 --> 2:02:50.400 We we took a couple of songs that kind of 2:02:50.440 --> 2:02:53.120 reflect at the times that we're that we were struggling, 2:02:53.560 --> 2:02:55.440 uh in the sixties and stuff because we did some 2:02:57.280 --> 2:03:05.040 uh Curtis Mayfield joints, but Robert Glasberg flipped him, so 2:03:05.200 --> 2:03:09.720 Roberts you know, on the project, and uh, it's a 2:03:09.920 --> 2:03:12.440 it's a hot it's a hot project, it really is. 2:03:12.520 --> 2:03:17.920 It's it's gonna come out on Verve when well we're 2:03:18.000 --> 2:03:19.280 trying to get a release date. 2:03:19.320 --> 2:03:23.000 We had. We were just with them today actually, but 2:03:23.200 --> 2:03:26.879 it's it was, it's a It's probably one of the projects. 2:03:26.960 --> 2:03:30.480 I've usually asked somebody about their new stuff and it's like, 2:03:32.880 --> 2:03:34.520 this sounds it sounds good. 2:03:35.920 --> 2:03:39.480 Who? Who? Who comes to mind after I stutter that 2:03:39.640 --> 2:03:43.240 impresses you vocally today? Like not not, they don't have 2:03:43.280 --> 2:03:44.760 to be a new artist. I just mean when you 2:03:44.840 --> 2:03:47.839 think presently of who's alive and who's still impressing you vocally. 2:03:51.680 --> 2:03:57.680 Shoot, you know a lot a lot of you. 2:03:57.800 --> 2:03:59.280 It's not new. I mean it could be you know 2:03:59.440 --> 2:04:01.640 you you you named some names on your album. 2:04:02.600 --> 2:04:04.120 Who are your go to? Like when you just want 2:04:04.160 --> 2:04:07.160 to hear some music? And you know I love Laylah 2:04:07.560 --> 2:04:15.280 Okay you and of course Balao and who else I 2:04:15.480 --> 2:04:19.040 listened to attorney. Shoot, it's. 2:04:21.920 --> 2:04:24.200 I'm trying to think of who just really sticks out 2:04:24.280 --> 2:04:28.760 that it's young Goss. Yeah, this is a lot of 2:04:28.760 --> 2:04:32.360 gospel and I and list allow of jazz stuff, all 2:04:32.400 --> 2:04:33.320 the young jazzer's. 2:04:34.360 --> 2:04:38.560 You're on Astro World. Uh, how did Travis Scott uh 2:04:40.000 --> 2:04:43.320 come to get you for the album? Well? 2:04:44.200 --> 2:04:48.720 It was very quick and really yeah, it it was 2:04:48.800 --> 2:04:50.160 just kind of one of one of those things that 2:04:50.520 --> 2:04:56.480 we have the same manager, and so Damien's been managing 2:04:56.720 --> 2:04:58.880 me for a long long time. In the fact, he 2:04:59.000 --> 2:05:02.040 was his best friend with my oldest son, you know, 2:05:02.240 --> 2:05:08.120 back in Denver. Huh sir, yes, sir, Yeah, he's doing well. 2:05:08.200 --> 2:05:10.720 Give give him hello, yeah, thank you all. 2:05:11.520 --> 2:05:15.600 So anyway, so yeah, you know that uh song stopped 2:05:15.640 --> 2:05:18.600 turning to be got that me and Stevie guessed on 2:05:18.640 --> 2:05:22.000 a little bit. That's that's how that came about actually, 2:05:23.040 --> 2:05:25.760 and uh, you know, rest is history. 2:05:25.760 --> 2:05:32.640 Really Wow, impressive, You're still going strong and hypothetical situation 2:05:32.720 --> 2:05:39.080 because I think as I was going to earlier, I forgot. 2:05:39.280 --> 2:05:41.840 I forgot I forgot about that. But this is a 2:05:41.880 --> 2:05:44.640 hypothetical situation. I am going to ask about that though. 2:05:44.680 --> 2:05:46.000 I'm giving you a blank check. 2:05:47.440 --> 2:05:50.120 You can do whatever you want with it, Like you 2:05:50.200 --> 2:05:53.240 can record whatever you want with whoever you want, wherever 2:05:53.280 --> 2:05:53.600 you want. 2:05:54.160 --> 2:05:56.320 What do you think you would do with that? Wow? 2:05:56.440 --> 2:06:00.400 That's so huge, Like what what is what is your 2:06:00.480 --> 2:06:01.160 dream project? 2:06:02.640 --> 2:06:07.280 I actually think that I just did it, you know, 2:06:07.400 --> 2:06:09.480 on this project that that we just did. I definitely 2:06:09.520 --> 2:06:12.720 think that I that I just did it. You know, 2:06:12.840 --> 2:06:15.960 to be able to to do what you want to 2:06:16.040 --> 2:06:19.440 do with the people that you've always respected and stuff, 2:06:19.560 --> 2:06:23.760 and and to finish it, and people that are listening 2:06:23.920 --> 2:06:28.600 or saying or having comments that you're hoping when in 2:06:28.720 --> 2:06:31.480 your in your creating the project, that they'll you'll have 2:06:32.320 --> 2:06:34.720 you know, it's very gratifying and stuff. 2:06:34.800 --> 2:06:38.200 So you know, yeah, I think we we just did it. 2:06:39.080 --> 2:06:41.960 I can save my money then, yeah, I'm checking that one. 2:06:42.440 --> 2:06:45.480 And by the way, I loved off the last from 2:06:45.560 --> 2:06:46.720 twenty thirteen Splashes. 2:06:46.760 --> 2:06:51.080 I really love that song. Oh yeah, are you going 2:06:51.120 --> 2:06:55.640 to ask the Twins question? No, I was. 2:06:57.520 --> 2:07:00.560 Any any chance of reuniting with the other Phil for 2:07:00.640 --> 2:07:01.480 a follow up? 2:07:03.320 --> 2:07:12.680 I can't believe you brought up Oh wow. Only bring 2:07:12.760 --> 2:07:16.880 it up because whenever a set of Twins comes on tonight, 2:07:16.960 --> 2:07:19.200 you guys play that. That's always the song we played. 2:07:19.320 --> 2:07:22.080 So we know Twins left and right. Man, how do 2:07:22.200 --> 2:07:22.760 you you know? 2:07:22.960 --> 2:07:25.600 Let me ask you this off cuff, but when I 2:07:25.760 --> 2:07:28.800 when I was came on the show, how do you 2:07:28.880 --> 2:07:32.160 guys just like look like you guys are going like 2:07:32.520 --> 2:07:34.000 one thousand miles a minute. 2:07:33.760 --> 2:07:37.520 In real time. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that you 2:07:37.680 --> 2:07:40.960 haven't with the band as well, but there's a point 2:07:41.360 --> 2:07:45.560 after maybe ten years where you guys, just you know, 2:07:46.000 --> 2:07:49.040 you know each other so well that you're talking like, 2:07:49.080 --> 2:07:52.480 we're to the point now, I would I would probably 2:07:52.560 --> 2:07:56.560 say that maybe in five years we get the roots 2:07:56.720 --> 2:07:59.200 the roots, and I can probably have a conversation without 2:07:59.320 --> 2:08:02.400 speaking a word. We're now to the point where we 2:08:02.560 --> 2:08:05.520 know how to communicate with each other with rhythm, like 2:08:06.600 --> 2:08:11.680 if someone if someone like real bad enters the room 2:08:11.760 --> 2:08:14.840 like whatever, like we have a rhythm for that, and 2:08:15.000 --> 2:08:18.120 all of a sudden it stands of attention like which 2:08:18.200 --> 2:08:22.360 one And then if it's a like I have to 2:08:22.400 --> 2:08:26.240 do a code to let you know, third row four 2:08:26.400 --> 2:08:32.200 ups and then no, no, literally, but it's it's we 2:08:32.960 --> 2:08:38.080 have a language, like we're just you do it. I 2:08:38.160 --> 2:08:41.200 think the whole point of the whole ten thousand hours 2:08:41.240 --> 2:08:45.200 of Eagles genius practice thing is that when you do 2:08:45.360 --> 2:08:47.560 it so much that you're able to do other things 2:08:47.640 --> 2:08:51.120 and have other forms of communications. Right, Yeah, that's what 2:08:51.240 --> 2:08:53.600 it really seems like. Yeah, I mean, we have fun 2:08:53.680 --> 2:08:57.800 doing it, and you know, I guess this is the 2:08:57.960 --> 2:09:00.760 point where we're just in the zone with each other 2:09:00.800 --> 2:09:03.480 and we're actually friends. We're friends now more than we've 2:09:03.560 --> 2:09:08.000 ever been in the thirty years that we've known each 2:09:08.000 --> 2:09:11.720 other or I'm in a combination of we've all the 2:09:11.800 --> 2:09:16.520 configuration you see now has as somewhere between like ten 2:09:16.640 --> 2:09:21.240 to twenty years into it. Yeah, I think there's a 2:09:21.280 --> 2:09:23.400 point where you just you grow up and then you're 2:09:24.040 --> 2:09:27.320 you're just friends. So what was it like doing that 2:09:27.440 --> 2:09:30.640 thing with you that you did with us? You know? Okay, 2:09:30.800 --> 2:09:33.920 here's the thing. I have two experiences. Okay, so I 2:09:34.040 --> 2:09:38.000 had the pleasure of working with the earth We're in 2:09:38.040 --> 2:09:41.200 fire back in two thousand, I think the Voodoo Tour 2:09:41.360 --> 2:09:47.360 was doing like a week in La so uh, and 2:09:47.480 --> 2:09:51.200 I had two experiences, one with you in sir, and 2:09:51.360 --> 2:09:54.840 then one with Maurice. Now, the thing is, is that 2:09:57.560 --> 2:09:59.880 really really being like green and wet behind the ears 2:10:00.040 --> 2:10:05.280 and still like new that sort of thing, and talking 2:10:05.320 --> 2:10:10.440 to Maurice and just like you know, going through our 2:10:10.480 --> 2:10:12.160 whole fan out thing, and of course I know like 2:10:12.360 --> 2:10:17.800 how many Columbus you got. It was like that sort 2:10:17.840 --> 2:10:20.600 of situation where you know, I was basically set myself 2:10:20.680 --> 2:10:23.360 up for a fall, but you know, Maurice has said that, 2:10:23.520 --> 2:10:26.240 you know, I want what's in the future, And now 2:10:26.240 --> 2:10:28.200 I was like talking about sound and everything. The first 2:10:28.240 --> 2:10:31.400 thing you mentioned was like your your your snare drum 2:10:31.520 --> 2:10:34.640 sound is real low, and in my mind I'm like, well, 2:10:35.160 --> 2:10:37.240 that's the sign of class. That's the sound of classic 2:10:37.280 --> 2:10:40.840 earth wind and fire like you know, deep snare. And 2:10:41.120 --> 2:10:43.880 he's like, oh man, I won't like give me to day, 2:10:43.920 --> 2:10:47.440 give me what you want. And I remember being just 2:10:47.520 --> 2:10:52.160 a little heartbroken the fact that he didn't trust the 2:10:52.240 --> 2:10:59.160 process that we today are looking to what you know, like, yeah, 2:10:59.720 --> 2:11:01.840 what y'all were doing, Like that's not what he over? 2:11:01.920 --> 2:11:04.720 That shit right, And then I did that. It'd be 2:11:04.800 --> 2:11:07.480 like if somebody asked you to, you know, get an 2:11:07.600 --> 2:11:08.600 upright base of roads. 2:11:09.600 --> 2:11:12.600 But here's the thing though, now, the difference between you 2:11:12.800 --> 2:11:15.760 tell me this now and maybe you tell me this 2:11:15.960 --> 2:11:20.120 back in two thousand and two. I almost feel as 2:11:20.160 --> 2:11:23.720 though when artists are likesh like I used to do 2:11:23.800 --> 2:11:25.360 that or that's the old Well, first of all, no 2:11:25.400 --> 2:11:27.800 one likes agism, you know what I mean, So no 2:11:27.880 --> 2:11:30.280 one wants to feel like, ah, man was my best 2:11:30.320 --> 2:11:32.080 work thirty years ago, and I just don't want to 2:11:32.080 --> 2:11:36.200 admit it. I feel as though maybe it's a fear 2:11:36.400 --> 2:11:40.320 of not matching up, you know, do I have a 2:11:40.400 --> 2:11:43.320 fear of not being twenty two year old a mirror 2:11:43.400 --> 2:11:47.680 that was working on do you want More? In Hiladelph 2:11:47.680 --> 2:11:49.960 Half Life. So a lot of times we just tend 2:11:50.040 --> 2:11:53.480 to go linear and go for it, but I feel 2:11:53.520 --> 2:11:57.400 as though you should go circular. So yes, now today 2:11:58.520 --> 2:12:01.040 I will totally get an upright bait, he said infinitive Rhodes. 2:12:01.800 --> 2:12:04.919 And I mean, I damn near work with the same equipment. 2:12:05.080 --> 2:12:08.120 So I'm lucky enough to one be cheap enough to 2:12:08.200 --> 2:12:10.720 not have upgraded. Y'all have an upgrade pro tools. Did 2:12:10.800 --> 2:12:14.480 y'all finally do that? No, it's see Steve one and 2:12:14.520 --> 2:12:18.400 a half. Steve has convinced me to not upgrade so 2:12:18.520 --> 2:12:20.920 that we don't lose the vibe. But what we've averaged 2:12:21.480 --> 2:12:29.000 for twenty years a digital vibe. So I'm saying with 2:12:29.480 --> 2:12:33.800 you and sir though y'all kind of gave me room 2:12:33.880 --> 2:12:39.000 to do my thing, so I you know, I'm still 2:12:39.120 --> 2:12:41.240 pleased with the song. I wish we we we could 2:12:41.240 --> 2:12:45.520 have fleshed out the song idea some more so, but 2:12:45.680 --> 2:12:47.880 you know it was enjoyable. I'm always gonna have a 2:12:47.920 --> 2:12:50.760 great story to tell and it's the Yeah, it is 2:12:50.800 --> 2:12:55.680 on the promised record. Yeah, So I will say that 2:12:55.840 --> 2:12:59.880 on behalf is there anything else before? No, no more, 2:13:01.560 --> 2:13:02.320 I'm trying. Yeah. 2:13:02.480 --> 2:13:06.800 I don't let mister Bailey go an see him again. 2:13:07.360 --> 2:13:10.360 Hey man, we want to give our heroes they flowers. Yes, 2:13:10.960 --> 2:13:13.320 no for we we appreciate you coming on the show 2:13:13.440 --> 2:13:16.200 and this is definitely one of them. No, man, this 2:13:16.280 --> 2:13:18.280 is the honor. Your music has been the soundtrack of 2:13:18.440 --> 2:13:19.280 my entire life. 2:13:19.400 --> 2:13:21.760 And just be thank you, well, thank you. Let me, 2:13:21.840 --> 2:13:24.960 I gotta say one thing for before we go to Mouse. 2:13:28.400 --> 2:13:32.880 That now I hear that Mouse was saying that Earth 2:13:32.920 --> 2:13:35.600 Wind and Fire don't play their music. 2:13:36.040 --> 2:13:41.440 Oh okay, let me no one's wondering was gonna get 2:13:41.480 --> 2:13:45.160 brought up? Let me say, let me say Mouse's ass. No, 2:13:45.480 --> 2:13:49.480 what I was saying I brought up. I brought up 2:13:49.520 --> 2:13:50.720 the difference between. 2:13:50.560 --> 2:13:54.520 What on a previous episode a quest. 2:13:55.760 --> 2:13:59.640 We were talking about. Okay, so he's talking about the 2:14:00.120 --> 2:14:04.280 drafting of Heartbreak Hotel by the Jackson and now initially 2:14:06.160 --> 2:14:12.600 the the base tones and the bass sounds of Fantasy 2:14:14.560 --> 2:14:21.960 like all those inflections. There have been rumors or whatnot 2:14:22.120 --> 2:14:25.160 that again that that Earth Wind and Fire was more 2:14:25.360 --> 2:14:31.560 like a Beach Boys situation where Maurice White, as as 2:14:31.640 --> 2:14:37.240 Brian Wilson using the recond crew, like using his house 2:14:37.360 --> 2:14:42.240 musicians to record Earth Wind and Fire records versus the 2:14:42.320 --> 2:14:45.920 people whom we saw on stage. So we were discussing 2:14:46.040 --> 2:14:48.360 that theory. But he he didn't say that you guys 2:14:48.400 --> 2:14:54.840 weren't playing on your records. But we did delve into 2:14:54.920 --> 2:14:57.800 that for at least five minutes on whether or not 2:14:58.040 --> 2:15:00.360 that was true or not. No, no, no, But I mean, 2:15:00.400 --> 2:15:02.600 for the most part, that's that's one of the biggest 2:15:02.640 --> 2:15:06.400 smoking mirror tricks that a lot of music fans don't know. 2:15:06.680 --> 2:15:10.120 I mean, for this case in point, James Poyser might 2:15:10.160 --> 2:15:12.400 as well be an original Route member because he's been 2:15:12.480 --> 2:15:16.720 there since the beginning. He just finally, like you know, 2:15:16.880 --> 2:15:18.840 gave up. I wore him out and just like all right, 2:15:18.960 --> 2:15:21.920 well now you're in the group. But for the longest 2:15:22.680 --> 2:15:25.840 James Poyser has I was rereading. 2:15:25.440 --> 2:15:27.400 The Things Fall Apart liner on the other day and 2:15:27.520 --> 2:15:31.000 there was all these James, y'all gonna pay me this time, right. 2:15:32.880 --> 2:15:37.880 Exactly exactly, So that was it. Mouse. Mouse did not 2:15:38.000 --> 2:15:40.920 insinuate that, all right, Mouse, you're off the hook. Good, 2:15:42.520 --> 2:15:44.600 all right, well, thank you very much on be having 2:15:44.720 --> 2:15:48.240 Moon Ticcolo boss Bill unpaid Bilvison in Action and Sugar 2:15:48.280 --> 2:15:52.720 Steve and the Sugar Steve Network and it's like, yeah, 2:15:52.920 --> 2:15:55.240 this is quest Love. Thank you very much Philip Bill 2:15:55.400 --> 2:15:59.680 for coming on the show God and we will see 2:15:59.680 --> 2:16:03.080 you next week on Court Love Supreme only on Pandora. 2:16:15.040 --> 2:16:18.800 Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic 2:16:18.840 --> 2:16:25.800 episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more 2:16:25.880 --> 2:16:29.840 podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 2:16:30.320 --> 2:16:32.000 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.