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Speaker 1: I'll tell you something, and what I like about these

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Speaker 1: hour shows. By the way, we can shut Yeah, well

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Speaker 1: that a thirteen second sound bite, right right? All right?

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Speaker 1: Are you ready for another question?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Go ahead, hit me, hit me, Bernie.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's the last time you're going to bite me

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Speaker 1: on your show. Right.

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Speaker 2: No, that's not true. I'm thrilled to have you.

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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: Everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, and this is next question. My

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Speaker 2: guest today. Bernie Sanders is eighty four years old, has

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Speaker 2: spent thirty four years in Congress, and he can still

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Speaker 2: pack a rally with people a quarter of his age.

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Speaker 2: We've talked many times over the years, and today he

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Speaker 2: even throws a few questions my way. But this moment

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Speaker 2: feels especially urgent for him, and he argues for America.

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Speaker 2: Bernie's long warned that our politics are being captured by

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Speaker 2: the wealthy few. From Trump's inauguration stage in January to

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Speaker 2: his tax cuts for the ultra rich, that warning seems legitimate.

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Speaker 2: His Fighting Oligarchy tour with AOC and other young progressives

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Speaker 2: has become a movement, and his new book, Fight Oligarchy

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Speaker 2: doubles down on that message. But is that message too

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Speaker 2: far to the left. Well, he certainly doesn't think so.

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Speaker 2: We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living,

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Speaker 2: the demonization of immigrants, and of course the government shut down,

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Speaker 2: not to mention the current state of the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders thinks a movement is afoot. But how will

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Speaker 2: this movement grow and how will it change the way

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Speaker 2: America fundamentally works. Here's our conversation, Senator Sanders, great to

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Speaker 2: see you again. Thank you for spending some time with

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Speaker 2: us at the start of this year. I know you

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Speaker 2: launched your Fighting Oligarchy tour and you were amazed by

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Speaker 2: the passionate, enormous turnout that you were getting in so

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Speaker 2: many places. What does that tell you or what have

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Speaker 2: you learned from that response about the way Americans are

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Speaker 2: feeling right now about the state of our country.

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Speaker 1: Well, Katie, a couple of things. One of the observations

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Speaker 1: that we made, we keep pretty good tabs on these things,

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Speaker 1: is that the people who are coming out, and we

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Speaker 1: ended up speaking to over three hundred thousand people in

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Speaker 1: twenty one states, we're not just you know, Bernie supporters.

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Speaker 1: Many of them were independents and many of them were Republicans.

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Speaker 1: And what really astounded me about the tours. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not running for any of them, not running for president,

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Speaker 1: running for the Senate. And we go to places like

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Speaker 1: La and thirty six thousand people come out then, but

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Speaker 1: thirty four thousand people come out. We go to a

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Speaker 1: Republican district in California. Fulsome remember Falsome, Johnny Casson.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, of course, the Folsom County Jail, right.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, they but jail. I had never been to Falsom,

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Speaker 1: heard of Falsome. Other than that, thirty thousand people come out.

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Speaker 1: In Idaho, we had twelve thousand people out Salt Lake City.

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Speaker 1: Twenty thousand people are you know, huge turnouts for a

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Speaker 1: non political campaign. And to answer your question, what it

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Speaker 1: tells me is that, for a variety of reasons, people

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Speaker 1: are really dissatisfied about the status quo, and they're very

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Speaker 1: dissatisfied about the direction in which Trump is taking this country.

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Speaker 1: But by the way, it is more than just Trump.

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Speaker 1: I mean, people are looking around them and they're saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm working really hard, and yet my real

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Speaker 1: wages have not gone up because I can't afford housing.

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Speaker 1: Housing is expensive, can't afford to go to the grocery

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Speaker 1: store by decent food for my kids. Of course, the

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Speaker 1: healthcare is off the charts. Can't afford child care. We'd

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Speaker 1: like to have more kids, but who the health can

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Speaker 1: afford child care, can't afford to send my kids to college,

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Speaker 1: and people, you know, this is the key point that

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Speaker 1: in Katie, we are living today in the wealthiest country

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Speaker 1: in the history of the world. You know that you

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Speaker 1: think most people see that feel that they don't, and

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Speaker 1: they don't because the reality is that in the wealthiest

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Speaker 1: country in the history of the world, almost all of

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Speaker 1: the new wealth an income is going to the people

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Speaker 1: on top. And that is what this book is about.

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Speaker 1: That's what the tour is about. It's the reality that

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Speaker 1: in America today you got one guy Elon Musk owning

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Speaker 1: more wealth in the bottom fifty two percent of American households,

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Speaker 1: the top one percent owning more wealth in the bottom

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Speaker 1: ninety three percent of Americans. And while the very rich

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Speaker 1: become much much richer, you have sixty percent of our

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Speaker 1: people struggling with living paycheck to paycheck.

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Speaker 2: In fact, Senator, your book called Fight Oligarchy, which I

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Speaker 2: have right here, you have said that a lot of

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Speaker 2: pundits and politicians have argued that the term oligarchy isn't

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Speaker 2: something that ordinary people understand. But you disagree with that assessment. Why, oh, okay, you.

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Speaker 1: Under said very well. I mean, you know, the media

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Speaker 1: may not appreciate it. My friends in Congress may not

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. But I don't care what your politics are.

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Speaker 1: You're a conservative, Republican, your progressive, your socialist, whatever you

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Speaker 1: may be. You understand that the working class of this

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Speaker 1: country is going nowhere in a hurry, while the wealthiest

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Speaker 1: people have more, not just economic power, Katie, they have

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Speaker 1: political power as well, see go out. And I'm sure

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Speaker 1: again I don't care what people's politics are. You tell me,

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Speaker 1: do you think democracy is about one guy, mister Musk,

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Speaker 1: the wealthiest guy in the world, spending two hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy million dollars to elect Donald Trump president. But it's

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Speaker 1: not just Republicans. You have billionaires in the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: who spend huge amounts of money to let candidates they want.

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Speaker 1: That is not democracy, That is oligarchy. That's enormous power

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Speaker 1: in the hands of the few. So I think what

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Speaker 1: people perceive when I write about in the book is

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Speaker 1: we got to get rid of this disastrous citizens. United

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision which allows billionaires to fund super PACs

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Speaker 1: to elect their.

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Speaker 2: Candidates treats them as regular individual citizens, right right, and

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Speaker 2: companies and corporations as citizens, right right.

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Speaker 1: But bottom line, does anybody really think that it's appropriate

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Speaker 1: that billionaires can contribute unlimited amounts of money to a

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Speaker 1: super pac who then can elect the candidates they want

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Speaker 1: to defeat the candidates they don't want. No one thinks

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Speaker 1: that that's democracy. So you got today in what this

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Speaker 1: book is about is the reality that we have a

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Speaker 1: corrupt campaign finance system controlled by billionaires. We have a

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Speaker 1: rigged economy where the rich get much richer. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, Katie, I worry very much about what artificial

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Speaker 1: intelligence and robotics is going to do with working families

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Speaker 1: throughout this country. And that is the reality. It's a

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Speaker 1: reality we don't talk about in Congress very much, we

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Speaker 1: don't talk about it in the media very much, but

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Speaker 1: it's something that has to be discussed.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you about two points you raised,

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Speaker 2: if I could, Senator, I mean, given the current state

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Speaker 2: of the Supreme Court and the people who are sitting

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Speaker 2: on the Supreme Court, how likely is it that citizens

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Speaker 2: United would ever be overturned in the near future.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's a very good question, and I very worry

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Speaker 1: very much about the what's going on in the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court and who their members are and where their allegiances are.

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Speaker 1: But this is what I do believe, Katie, and I

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Speaker 1: think history backs me up. As important as the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court is, and it is important, as important as Congresses,

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Speaker 1: and it is important the White House, very important at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day day. What history has always

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Speaker 1: told us is that real change I'm talking about, real

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Speaker 1: change always takes place from the grassroots level. It's when

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Speaker 1: people get mobilized from the bottom on up and not

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Speaker 1: from the top one down. And we have seen that,

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Speaker 1: by the way, something as Americans we should be very

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Speaker 1: proud of. You can remember as I can. Let's just

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Speaker 1: say fifty or sixty years ago. Do you think women

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Speaker 1: would have been hosting media shows in America? Remember that? Oh? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: th those all men are correct? Yes, when we have

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Speaker 1: states where the two United States senators of both women,

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Speaker 1: where women governors are all over this country, right, No,

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Speaker 1: it would have been unheard of, correct, correct, But what happened.

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Speaker 1: What happened is that you know, women for decades, many

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Speaker 1: many decades, going way back, when said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: we want to serve in the military. We want to

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Speaker 1: be confidence. We want to run for president, we want

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Speaker 1: to be governance, we want to be senators. And people

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Speaker 1: mobilized at the grassroots leven and we had, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a sense, a revolution in women's rights in this country, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I worry, you know about the counter

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Speaker 1: attacking against abortion rights and so forth. But no question,

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Speaker 1: and of.

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Speaker 2: Course we have the civil rights movement, and now the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court is revisiting the Voting Rights Act and may

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Speaker 2: significantly erode that. Correct.

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Speaker 1: Correct, But even my point is in terms of the

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Speaker 1: civil rights. But when I was a kid, you know,

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Speaker 1: and you had in the South, you know, African Americans

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Speaker 1: could not drink at a bloody water fountain, kids could

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Speaker 1: not go to with school, massive segregation. And that changed

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Speaker 1: not just because of the great people like doctor Martin

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Speaker 1: Luther King Junior and others, because of the grass movement.

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Speaker 1: People will need to get arrested, stand up and fight

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Speaker 1: for justice. Right now, in Trump's right wing administration, you

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Speaker 1: have a gay guy to be Secretary of Treasury in

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Speaker 1: a gay marriage, would you have dreamed. Could you have

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Speaker 1: ever dreamed that we'd have a gay people running for

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Speaker 1: office of governors? All of those positive changes, struggles against bigotry,

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Speaker 1: whether it's sexism or racism or homophobia, they were warrant

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Speaker 1: one not by the top on down, not by a

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision. The Supreme Court reflected what happened at

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Speaker 1: the grassroots level. And that's the same for workers' rights.

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Speaker 1: You know, in the thirties, you know, workers were working

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Speaker 1: sixties seventy hours a week, they had no rights. They

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Speaker 1: stood up, they formed trade unions, which, among other things,

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Speaker 1: gave us the forty hour work week, and et cetera.

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Speaker 1: So what I am saying, what was true in the past,

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Speaker 1: and what we've got to develop right now is a

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Speaker 1: strong grassroots political movement. And I see it happening where

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Speaker 1: people are saying a very simple point. Look, you disagree

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Speaker 1: with me, that's fine, But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: we want an economy. We want a government that works

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Speaker 1: for all people, not just Elon Musk and the other billionaires.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of what this book is about, and that's

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Speaker 1: what I'm fighting for.

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Speaker 2: Well, I want to ask you about sort of the

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Speaker 2: organizing principle of a resistance movement, a grassroots movement that

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Speaker 2: you're seeing when you've traveled around the country with people

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Speaker 2: coming out all across the US. I think there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of unhappiness. But how does a movement like that

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Speaker 2: actually have real impact? Right there's a lot of people

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Speaker 2: who are upset on social media. We've got the No

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Speaker 2: King's Rally that's happening tomorrow all over the country. And

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Speaker 2: yet with the power structure currently in place, right with

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Speaker 2: the Republican controlled Congress and the President, the Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: the way it is, how does a movement like this

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Speaker 2: under the circum stances gain real traction?

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Speaker 1: Good? Well, it's something that I and others are really

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Speaker 1: working on us. I think you've asked a very important question.

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Speaker 1: So tell you some of what we are doing. When

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Speaker 1: we did these fight Dollar Corkey rallies around the country,

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Speaker 1: we just didn't parachute in and do a nice rally

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Speaker 1: and leave and say have a nice day. We often

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Speaker 1: left behind US organizers and in our rallies we intentionally focused,

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Speaker 1: with some exceptions, but intentionally focused on congressional districts which

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Speaker 1: had Republican representatives who had won in fairly close elections,

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Speaker 1: so we left organizers. They had to mobilized people to

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Speaker 1: put pressure on their elected officials and to demand to

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Speaker 1: know why. For example, just one example, are there elected

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Speaker 1: officials we'd vote for a big, beautiful bill Trump's legislation

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Speaker 1: which through fifteen million low income and working class Americans

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Speaker 1: off of the healthcare they have because the devastating cuts

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Speaker 1: the Medicaid and raise premiums, double triple premiums healthcare premiums

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Speaker 1: for over twenty million more Americans. And we put pressure

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Speaker 1: with some success, on those legislative districts. We are right now, Katie,

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Speaker 1: as we speak, working with thousands of people, often young people,

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Speaker 1: helping them to run for school board or city council

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Speaker 1: or state legislature or whatever it might be. At the

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Speaker 1: local level, we are working and supporting candidates who are

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Speaker 1: running for US Senate, governor US House of Representatives. And

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Speaker 1: I will tell you that in the last number of years,

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Speaker 1: I know people know the name Alexandria Casio Cortez, but

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Speaker 1: she's great. But she is not alone. Dozen a strong

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Speaker 1: progressive members in the House of Representatives today who are

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Speaker 1: standing up, fighting for working class families, fighting for justice.

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Speaker 1: So we are having success we want to build on that.

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Speaker 2: You know, Senator Sanders, I'm curious how you feel about

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Speaker 2: recent polling that showed that Americans view the Democrats as

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Speaker 2: just as extreme as Republicans. So are you worried that

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Speaker 2: moving further to the left will alienate the voters you need?

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Speaker 2: This is sort of the age old discussion right in

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Speaker 2: the Democratic Party. Should you be more centrists and attract

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Speaker 2: independent voters? If you become two left, will you alienate

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Speaker 2: those independent and centrist voters? And I'm sure you know

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Speaker 2: this is not a new concept for you, and I'm

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Speaker 2: curious how you view that and if it's something that

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Speaker 2: you think about and worry about, because it all comes

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Speaker 2: down to getting the votes and winning, right, Yep, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, I'm going to ask you a question. All right,

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Speaker 1: are you ready? Yeah, I'm gonna interview you, all right?

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Speaker 1: When we talk about moving left? All right? So what

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Speaker 1: are we talking about? All right? If I were to

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Speaker 1: say to you, Katie Kirk, I believe that healthcare is

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Speaker 1: a human right and that every man, woman, and child

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Speaker 1: in this country should have healthcare, and that the function

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Speaker 1: of our healthcare system should not be to make insurance

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Speaker 1: companies and drug companies incredibly rich, but to run a effective,

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Speaker 1: cost effective healthcare system for all, Because that's.

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Speaker 2: Not like we're going to say, do you agree with that?

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Speaker 2: And yes, I agree that.

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Speaker 1: You're here, you're going to get the average vot Is

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Speaker 1: that two far left for you? No? All right? Nor

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Speaker 1: is it for the American people? Are you?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: And I think most of the viewers know. We are

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Speaker 1: the only major country on Earth. It's the richest country

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Speaker 1: on Earth that doesn't guarantee healthcare to all people. I

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Speaker 1: live in Burlington, Vermont. We want everybody to come up

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Speaker 1: to Vermont and visit us. I loove fifty miles away

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Speaker 1: from the Canadian border. Now, is there healthcare system perfect? No?

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Speaker 1: They got problems. But Katie, you end up you have

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Speaker 1: a serious surgery, you end up in a hospital in

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Speaker 1: Canada for a month. Do you know what your bill

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Speaker 1: is when you come out of that hospital?

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Speaker 2: Zero?

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Speaker 1: Zero? And by the way, do you know how much

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Speaker 1: they spend per person compared to what we spend. I'll

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Speaker 1: give you the answer.

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Speaker 2: I don't know the answer.

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Speaker 1: It's death. So we are spending twice as much as

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Speaker 1: they do. We got eighty five million people uninsured or underinsured.

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Speaker 1: We got healthcare costs that are soaring, and we remain

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Speaker 1: the only major country on Earth not to guarantee healthcare

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Speaker 1: to old people. So all right, so you ask me,

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm not going to take the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: to the left by saying that every American should have healthcare?

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Speaker 1: Is right, and we should take on degree to the

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Speaker 1: insurance companies, insurance and drug companies who charge us the

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Speaker 1: highest prices in the world. So you don't think that

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Speaker 1: that's too left.

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Speaker 2: Right, correct, correct, you're correct?

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Speaker 1: Right, how's your next question? Are you ready?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? God?

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Speaker 1: All right, average America. This she is representing three hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty million Americans right in front of you. All right,

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Speaker 1: here comes the question. We live in a competitive global economy.

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Speaker 1: Seventy years ago in our great country, if you wanted

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Speaker 1: to go to a very good college, say in New

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Speaker 1: York City, Brooklyn College, City College. You want to go

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Speaker 1: to a great state university in California and in other

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Speaker 1: states around the country, do you know how much it

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Speaker 1: costs you to go to those colleges and universities?

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Speaker 2: What and what year I'll.

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Speaker 1: Talk about seventy years ago, in the fifties or.

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Speaker 2: Something, oh, two thousand dollars a year?

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Speaker 1: It depends my brother, who is seven years older than

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Speaker 1: I am. You know, we lived in a rent controlled

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Speaker 1: apartment in Brooklyn, New York, and Brooklyn College, which was

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Speaker 1: and is a very fine college. Back when my brother

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Speaker 1: went to college, it was tuition free. Okay, family, we

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Speaker 1: don't have any money, and my family didn't have to

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Speaker 1: pay or he lived at home. We lived at about

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Speaker 1: a couple of miles away, so we took him a

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Speaker 1: half hour to get to college. I'm sure he was

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Speaker 1: not crazy about living at home, but that's it. He

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Speaker 1: got a very good college education for free. That was

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Speaker 1: true in many states, true in Vermont at that time,

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Speaker 1: California at that time. I don't have to tell you

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Speaker 1: how much college education costs today, right, right, oh, Katie?

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Speaker 1: If I say to the American people, he is a

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Speaker 1: really left wing, revolutionary, communistic idea that we should go

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Speaker 1: back to where we were, roughly speaking, seventy years ago

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Speaker 1: and make our public colleges and universities tuition free. Katie

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Speaker 1: Kurk radical idea, too far left for the American leagle.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's too far left, but I think

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Speaker 2: probably the devils in the details. How do you actually

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Speaker 2: do that? Right?

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't think it's not complicated. Frankly, and by

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Speaker 1: the way, there's bipartisan support for the understanding that in

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Speaker 1: my state and all over this country, we don't have

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Speaker 1: enough skilled craft workers. We don't have enough plumbers, electricians,

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Speaker 1: sheet metal workers. We brought billions of dollars into Vermont

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Speaker 1: under Biden to improve our infrastructure. We don't even have

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Speaker 1: the workers to do the work that we need to do.

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Speaker 1: That's true all over America. So it's not just higher

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Speaker 1: education getting a college degree, as important as that is.

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Speaker 1: It is you want to become an electrician, you want

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Speaker 1: to become a plumber. So opportunities for men and women

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Speaker 1: to earn very good salaries if we have the vocational

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Speaker 1: schools needed to provide that training. All right, So that's

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Speaker 1: another radical idea.

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Speaker 3: All right, okay, okay, I get your point, Bernie, I

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Speaker 3: get your I don't want to use up all our

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Speaker 3: interview time you asking me questions.

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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: Everyone, it's Katie Couric. You know I'm always on the

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Speaker 2: go between running my media company, hosting my podcast, and

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Speaker 2: of course covering the news, and I know that to

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Speaker 2: keep doing what I love, I need to start caring

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Speaker 2: for what gets me there, my feet. That's why I

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Speaker 2: decided to try the Good feet stores personalized arch support system.

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Speaker 2: I met with a Good Feet arch support specialist and

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Speaker 2: after a personalized fitting, I left the store with my

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Speaker 2: three step system designed to improve comfort, balance and support.

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Speaker 2: My feet, knees, and back are thanking me already. Visit

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Speaker 2: goodfeet dot com to learn more, find the nearest store,

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Speaker 2: or book your own free personalized fitting. So I'd like

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Speaker 2: to address you with this question. I hear you about

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Speaker 2: some of these ideas not being that radical at all.

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Speaker 2: Having said that, looking back at the last couple of elections,

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Speaker 2: it was not forgive me a Bernie Sanders aligned candidate

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Speaker 2: that beat Republicans in the House or Senate in swing

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Speaker 2: states or swing districts. The candidates who won are overwhelmingly

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Speaker 2: more moderate, as you know. So I guess my question

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Speaker 2: to you, what evidence do you have that your approach

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Speaker 2: will actually beat Republican candidates in tough territories.

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Speaker 1: Well, I have the evidence that in many respects, I'm

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Speaker 1: not quite in agreement with your analysis.

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Speaker 2: Okay, tell me why the.

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Speaker 1: Country we're seeing strong progresses at Alita, Grhalvar and Arizona

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Speaker 1: just want a landslide victory running as a strong progressive

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Speaker 1: just last month, and we eagerly await the Speaker of

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Speaker 1: the House to allow her to take her position, but

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Speaker 1: she won a very strong victory. Maybe most importantly right

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Speaker 1: now as you and I speak, are they're going to

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Speaker 1: be elections in a couple of weeks. And I think

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Speaker 1: the election the American people are most focused on is

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Speaker 1: in New York City. And New York City you have

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Speaker 1: the essence of an establishment candidate and Andrew Cuomo, you know,

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Speaker 1: former Governor Andrew is the establishment running against Zoron Mumdani,

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Speaker 1: who is somebody who shares my political views. Now, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what's going to happen in two weeks, but

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Speaker 1: the polling seems to suggest that Mumdani is in pretty

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Speaker 1: good shape, that he's putting together the kind of coalition

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Speaker 1: that you need to win black white Latino Asians that

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Speaker 1: he has right now. And this is Katie, when you

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Speaker 1: talk about Bernie Sanders politics, this is what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: He has some eighty thousand volunteers as we speak knocking

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Speaker 1: on doors in New York City. Guys. Unbelievable, and to

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Speaker 1: my mind, that is the kind of politics that wins election,

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Speaker 1: and right now, as you may or may not notice,

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Speaker 1: when you're looking at Senate candidates around the country, more

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Speaker 1: and more of them were saying, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: think it's time to take on the oligocky, stand up

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Speaker 1: for the working class. And many of them themselves, whether

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Speaker 1: it is in Michigan, Maine, Nebraska, Texas, elsewhere, all working

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Speaker 1: class candidates who are prepared to stand up to big money.

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Speaker 1: So I think the movement is frankly in our direction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you think change is a foot because I

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Speaker 2: was just going to mention there were four Senate Democratic

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Speaker 2: candidates who won in Trump states, as you know, Alyssa

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Speaker 2: slot Kinne Michigan, Tammy Baldwin and Wisconsin, Jackie ro Nevada,

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Speaker 2: Rubin Diego and Arizona. And all of them were more

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Speaker 2: moderate Democratic candidates. They moved to the middle and these elections.

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Speaker 2: Gego on immigration was to the right of his party.

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Speaker 2: Baldwin ran an ad agreeing with Trump on trade. So

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Speaker 2: I guess are you saying, Bernie, if I can call

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Speaker 2: you Bernie, that you think that things have changed considerably

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Speaker 2: since those elections were held.

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Speaker 1: I do think things have changed. When we talk about

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Speaker 1: moderate or moving to the left. You mentioned Tommy Boldlin

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Speaker 1: talking about trade. Well, you know what you're looking at

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Speaker 1: a guy who voted against the NAFTA trade agreement with

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Speaker 1: Mexico and who voted against permanent normal trade relations with China.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I don't know. Moving to the left,

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Speaker 1: is those trade agreements were disastered for working class families,

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Speaker 1: cost US thousands and thousands of factories and millions of

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Speaker 1: good paying jobs. Is I left or right? You can

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Speaker 1: tell me, but our trade policy has been or does that?

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Speaker 1: But again it gets back, be careful I think about

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Speaker 1: using left or right. What are the issues that you're

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Speaker 1: campaigning on now if a candidate, And let me give

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Speaker 1: another example. I don't have to tell you or the

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Speaker 1: American people what has gone on in Gaza for the

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Speaker 1: last year or so. We are looking at a situation

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Speaker 1: where the United States put over twenty two billion dollars

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Speaker 1: into Neta, Yaho's right wing extremist government, and the result

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Speaker 1: has been the killing of sixty five thousand people out

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Speaker 1: of two point two million and the wounding injuring of

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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty thousand people ten percent of the

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Speaker 1: population of Gaza, by the way, mostly women, children, and

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Speaker 1: the elderly have been killed or wounded with American Aid. Now,

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Speaker 1: a year ago, Katie, everyone was saying, well, you got

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Speaker 1: to defend that the Yahoo, you got to defend what

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Speaker 1: Israeli military is thinking. That has radically changed. And if

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Speaker 1: you've noticed today, many candidates were running I don't care

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Speaker 1: whether they are moderate candidates, progressive, conservative, They're saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to support more money going to Natanello,

433
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: and we're not going to take money from APEX. So again,

434
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: left right, I don't know what it is, but there's

435
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: certainly been a change of opinion on that issue.

436
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 2: Let me ask you about that because, as you know,

437
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, I guess before I even

438
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 2: dig deeper into the mayoral race here in New York City,

439
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 2: do you really think that New York City is the

440
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 2: best example for the rest of the country. In other words,

441
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 2: where goes New York City, there goes the rest of

442
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: the country. I think a lot of people might say,

443
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 2: what do you Hie? I mean, New York City is

444
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 2: a very unique place, full of very unique citizens, very liberal,

445
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: very diverse, a melting pot. I mean, that's why I

446
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: love New York City, where I am right now. People

447
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: from all over the world and all over the country

448
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 2: come here. But a lot of people would say, I'm sorry,

449
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 2: New York City is not where we're at politically.

450
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: Okay, good question. New York City is not necessarily the

451
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: rest of the country. But I would respond to you

452
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: into ways. I have been to the rest of the country. Okay,

453
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: I've been to Boise, Idaho. I've been to Salt Lake City, Utah.

454
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: Those are not that's not New York City type communities.

455
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: I have been to maybe one of the most Republican

456
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: districts in the entire country, and that is Mingo County,

457
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: West Virginia. You know where that is.

458
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: No, I've never been to Mingo County, West Virginia's.

459
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: Beautiful anyhow, that district, not New York City. That county

460
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: of eighteen thousand people voted for Donald Trump to the

461
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: tune of seventy four percent. Okay, pretty trumpish, right right.

462
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: I won't there.

463
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: I went there, and what did they say.

464
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: The first thing is, you know, we didn't have twenty

465
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: thousand people coming out, but we did four hundred people

466
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: coming out, and it was one of the greatest meetings,

467
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: and we videoed it, you know, as people are struggling

468
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: all over America. West Virginia has its own economic problems,

469
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: and you hear people, you know, town meetings. So people

470
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: got up and said, oh, this is what's going on.

471
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: I need to go to a specialist. I got to

472
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: go two hours because we don't have any specialists here.

473
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 1: I can't afford healthcare. Young lady gets up there and

474
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: you know, talks about you know, her dream to get

475
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: decent quality education, which is where West Virginia is not

476
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: particularly strong, et cetera, et cetera. Here's my point, Katie,

477
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: West Virginia is not New York City, LA. Is not Idaho.

478
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: All true, But at the end of the day, every

479
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: American needs quality healthcare. At the end of the day,

480
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: every parent wants decent childcare and education for their kids.

481
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, all parents want to

482
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: be able to afford to give their kids decent quality food,

483
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: not junk food. New York City is not Idaho. Yes,

484
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: you're right, there are differences of opinion on many issues,

485
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: but there is much more commonality of interests in this

486
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: country than media and members of Congress perceive. And that's why,

487
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the joys of my life hasn't

488
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: been able to go to literally every state in Americans

489
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: speak to zillions of people and really sit down with people,

490
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: big rallies, but sometimes we sit down and talk to

491
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: fifteen people. And at the end of the day, all

492
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: of our people, conservatives, progressives, independence, they want a decent

493
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: standard of living for their kids, for their parents, and

494
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: for themselves, and they're not getting it today.

495
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 2: You know, in your book, Bernie, you talk about how

496
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: one percent of the population has more wealth than the

497
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: bottom ninety three percent of the population, And certainly income

498
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: inequality is a horrible and divisive issue in this country,

499
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: and I think responsible for a lot of our problems.

500
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: Having said that, how do you put guardrails on businesses

501
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: without bilifying them? Because we need businesses to succeed in

502
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: this country. Everyone benefits when a company is successful. You know,

503
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: communities benefit, employees benefit. So I guess my question is

504
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 2: how do you find the right balance to reduce income

505
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: and equality but not damage businesses so much that they

506
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: can't function in a way that is helpful to society good.

507
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: I mean, that's I think a legitimate concern, and I

508
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: wish I could tell you, Katie that I have a

509
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: four point program that would solve and answer you a

510
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,239
Speaker 1: question with great city. I don't, but this is what

511
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: I do believe. I do believe that we have got

512
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: to deal with what I perceive as the kind of

513
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: uncontrolled greed that now exists at the very highest echelons

514
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: of the business community. And you know, I know sometimes

515
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: I got criticized this. I don't think it's quite fair.

516
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: I'm not here attacking God. In Vermont. You know, all

517
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: of the businesses, virtually all of a small businesses. You

518
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: got mom and pop working really hard, you know, and

519
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: they have five employees, and you know they're doing a

520
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: great job. But they're doing That's true all over this country.

521
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: But what we do have to deal with, Katie, is

522
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: that you've got people on top who really honestly believe

523
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: that they have the right to do anything they want

524
00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: economically and politically. And they are very religious people. And

525
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: their religion, though, is greed is more and more and more,

526
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: and we have to deal with that. So are you

527
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: hearing me say, you know, I don't think people should

528
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: become rich. They're going to be rich people, and that's fine.

529
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: You start up a successful business, you make money, great,

530
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: good for you and that's great. You hire people, you

531
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: come up with new ideas, fantastic, We need you. But

532
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: I do think we have got to deal with greed.

533
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: I mean, let me turn that question around.

534
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 2: If I might say, oh, here we go again, there

535
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: we go.

536
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: That's Paul, and we determined that you, Katie Kirk, reflect

537
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: the views of three hundred and forty million.

538
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 4: Which I I mean, Elon Musk is on his way

539
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 4: to become a trillionaire and you got eighty five million

540
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 4: Americans that can't afford healthcare.

541
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: Does that make sense at all? So I think at

542
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: the first of all, we have to say, look, you

543
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: could start a business, you make money, good, great for it,

544
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: They're going to be rich. Great. Do you really need

545
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: a trillion dollars? Do you really need five hundred billion

546
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: dollars when kids in America can't afford to go to college?

547
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: And by the way, when you, as multi billionaires, use

548
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: you up political power to fight for tax breaks. I mean,

549
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: one of these things about Trump's big, beautiful build that

550
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,959
Speaker 1: we're dealing with right now in the government shutdown are

551
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: trillion dollars in tax breaks for Musk and his friends

552
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: and massive cuts to Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act.

553
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: So first point is no, I am not anti business.

554
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: You want to start a business, good luck to you,

555
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: great do it. But I am anti greed and anti

556
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: incredible power on the part of the multi billionaires of

557
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: this country. And let me just say something else on business.

558
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: You may agree with me, you may not. Right now, Musk, Bezos, Zuckerberg,

559
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: Larry Ellison, these are some of the richest guys in

560
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: America and they have an enormous impact over the media.

561
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: They on a lot of the media. But on top

562
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: of that, what they are doing right now as we speak,

563
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: is investing hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions of

564
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: dollars into artificial intelligence and robotics.

565
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 2: You are aware of that, right, yes, of course, yeah,

566
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 2: that's that could be a whole two hour conversation we

567
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 2: could have, but go on, all right, All that I.

568
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: Want to say is, and I would say that to

569
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 1: the average person, do you believe that Miss the Musk

570
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: and these are the guys and Miss the Musk is

571
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: pretty honest about he says he wants Tesla to build

572
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: millions of robots. Do you believe that these guys right now,

573
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: the richest people in America investing heavily in AI and

574
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: robotics are doing that in order to improve the standard

575
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: of living and life for the working families of this country.

576
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: What do you think, Katie, think that's what they're doing.

577
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: I would say no. I would say no. And in fact,

578
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: why can't Congress put more guardrails and force these companies

579
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: to consider the unintended negative consequences of this technology? And

580
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 2: why aren't more people talking about that instead of beating

581
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: China to the punch?

582
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: Good, good, and again, I think you're right, and I'm

583
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: afraid I have to be a little bit repetitious here

584
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: and tell you that the reason is if you are

585
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: mister Musk or mister Teal or mister Zuckerberg, you don't

586
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: want those regulations. And you know what, You've got a

587
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: lot of money to spend on your members of Congress

588
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: to say, hey, don't regulate us, we will do anything

589
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: we want.

590
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 2: You're also very critical not only of Republicans, but of

591
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party on this issue, aren't you? On whether

592
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 2: we're talking about corporate wealth and billionaires, which you think

593
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris failed to really reach out and appeal to

594
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 2: working class voters, or the failure of members of Congress

595
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 2: and of you know who are Democrats to do something

596
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: about this. You're right, and put the guardrails on AI specifically, right.

597
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: I mean, and how you deal with this? Again, this

598
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: is really complicated stuff, and I'm not going to tell

599
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: you that I have a three second solution to it,

600
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: but this I do know. If we do not, in

601
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: one way or another, get a handle on this. And

602
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: this is not Bernie Sanders talking. This is people who

603
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: really understand AI and robotics a lot better than I do.

604
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: We are likely likely talking about millions and millions of

605
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: American workers losing their jobs. You know, I want to

606
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: see manufacturing be rebuilt in America. Trump talks about it

607
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: as well, but you know what, it's not going to

608
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: mean much to the average American worker if robots are

609
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: doing the work. I want to see small businesses flourish

610
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: in America, but if the entry level jobs and those

611
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: small and medium sized businesses are done by AI and

612
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: not kids who are leaving school, not going to mean

613
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 1: much for working people as well. So the fear right now,

614
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: not only it's a huge economic issue, and you're right,

615
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: it is not being discussed enough now. There are people

616
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: different with me. You know, some people say, well, Bernie,

617
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: you know there's always been these technological revolutions, new jobs created,

618
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: old jobs are lost. No, I don't think so this time.

619
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: I really don't. I think you're looking at massive changes

620
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: to the economy. But it's not only Katie. When you

621
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: deal about deal with hey I have You're talking not

622
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: just about economics in America today. I don't, you know.

623
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure the viewers know this. You know, we got

624
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: a lot of serious personal issues, if you like, the

625
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: level of mental illness, and COVID only exacerbated that, the

626
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: level of loneliness that people are experienced, the loss of community.

627
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: There was a time, you know, everybody knew everybody else,

628
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: and now people feel isolated. Our kids are struggling. I'll

629
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: never forget, you know. I get around Vermont's schools and

630
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: I talk to teachers, and these day, Bernie, you know,

631
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: I spend half my time not teaching English, a Spanish

632
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: and myth. I spent half my time mentoring kids wishing,

633
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: you know, with drugs or whatever it may be. So

634
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: I've got a lot of emotional problems, and what I

635
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: worry about is kids spending their life, and not just

636
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: kids online their companions are going to be you know,

637
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: some chetbox.

638
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 2: Well, finally we're seeing a movement though. I mean, I'd

639
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: interviewed Jonathan Height last week, and we are seeing schools

640
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: and parents actually fighting back, schools having phone free days,

641
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 2: not allowing cell phones during school hours. That's happening more

642
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 2: and more. I think Kathy Hochel signed a law about

643
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 2: this here in New York State. So I think we

644
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 2: are seeing a backlash. But I could not agree with

645
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: you more about the impact. And I think the loneliness

646
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 2: epidemic is another huge thing that I think has been

647
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: accelerated by our addiction to technology. So I agree with

648
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 2: you one thousand percent on all these things.

649
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something and what I like about these

650
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: hour shows, by the way, we can chat. Yeah, Well

651
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: that a thirteen second sound bite, right right? All right,

652
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: all right, are you ready for another question?

653
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 2: Oh go ahead, hit me, hit me, Bernie.

654
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: Yes, it's the last time you're going to bte be

655
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: on your show.

656
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 2: Right, No, that's not true. I'm thrilled to have you.

657
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: Okay. Pew Research set the Pew.

658
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 2: Yes Yes, out of Philadelphia, Yes, very reputable.

659
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago they did a poll Here's

660
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 1: what the question was, in so many words, American people,

661
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: do you think somebody like you, in your situation, middle class,

662
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: working class, upper income, whatever you may be, somebody like

663
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: you is better off today than they were fifty years ago?

664
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: Got it?

665
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 2: Yep?

666
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: What was the answer? No? According to that poll, fifty

667
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 1: eight percent of the American people said no, I think

668
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: somebody like me was better off fifty years ago. And

669
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: people understood all of the new technology in healthcare that

670
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: saves life's cancer treatments that didn't exist fifty years ago,

671
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: drugs that save lives didn't exist, computers, cell phones. You know,

672
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: people are not unknowledgeable about many of the positive aspects

673
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: of modern society, right cell phones. In my view, you know,

674
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: an emergency is a good thing. And yet they thought

675
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: that life fifty years ago, buy and large was better.

676
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 2: In fact, my daughter always says, Mom, I wish I'd

677
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: grown up like you in the seventies before all this

678
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 2: technology existed. So I'm not surprised to hear that answer.

679
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: But it's an extraordinary when you think about it, Katie,

680
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: what does it say all of this technology, all of

681
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 1: this increase in worker productivity, has it made us healthier?

682
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: Or happier. Well, maybe not. And then what we got

683
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: to do is take a really deep breath and say,

684
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: all right, is the function? If you're Elon Musk wide respect,

685
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: I disagree with him on everything. It's a hard working guy,

686
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: is a brilliant guy. Their goal is efficiency. All right?

687
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: In twenty years, we're not going to need Katie Kirk

688
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: behind the microphone because you can have some artificial intelligence

689
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: person who knows more than you do. It's more articulate.

690
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: You know, you're not going to aid a politician like

691
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders somebody, you know? Is that really where we

692
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: want to go? Is efficiency the goal in life? Or

693
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: do you want to create a more human society whatever that

694
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: may mean. And one of the things when we talk

695
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: about why people are feeling less good about today than

696
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: they did fifty years ago is it's economic, but it's

697
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: also a sense of community where people I think back

698
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: then kind of felt more secure. The world wasn't shifting

699
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: under their feet. But even in economics, if I can,

700
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: let me just give you an example economics in years

701
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: fifty two years explosion in worker productivity technology, the average

702
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: weekly inflation adjusted for income for working people as lower

703
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: today than it was fifty two years ago, massive transfer

704
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 1: of wealth from the bottom ninety percent of the top

705
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: one percent. I grew up in New York City in

706
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: a rent controled apartment doing just I tried to figure

707
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: it out the back of the envelope calculations. You know

708
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: what my family paid in rent? We paid eighteen percent

709
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: of our income. We didn't have any money, but we

710
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 1: paid eighteen percent. No family in America's pay eighteen percent

711
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: of their income right now. My brother, as I mentioned,

712
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 1: went to college tuition free. So despite all of the technology,

713
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: we're seeing working families in many respects worse off. And

714
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: by the way you pull this thing, people are worried

715
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: that the kids will be even worse off than they are.

716
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: How many young people can afford to buy a house today?

717
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 1: Our generation, my generation people could buy homes. Working class

718
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: people could buy homes at a younger age than is

719
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: currently Okay, So all that I'm saying here is we

720
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: need a real national discussion about where do we want

721
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: to be. Is efficiency the only thing in life? Or

722
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 1: do we want to live happy, productive, meaningful lives. That's

723
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: a discussion we're not having.

724
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, it's me Katie Couric. You know, if you've

725
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 2: been following me on social media, you know I love

726
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 2: to cook, or at least try, especially alongside some of

727
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 2: my favorite chefs and foodies like Benny Blair, Jake Cohen,

728
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: Lighty Hoyke, Alison Roman, and Ininegarten. So I started a

729
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 2: free newsletter called good Taste to share recipes, tips and

730
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 2: kitchen mustaves. Just sign up at katiecurreic dot com slash

731
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: good Taste. That's k A t I E C O

732
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 2: U r I C dot com slash good Taste. I

733
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 2: promised your taste buds will be happy you did. I

734
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 2: wanted to ask you about the role of the Democratic

735
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,959
Speaker 2: Party in all this. You know, anecdotally, many people are

736
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 2: very concerned and worried about the direction of the country

737
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 2: and this massive executive overreach that we're seeing in so

738
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: many different areas of American life, and they're desperately looking

739
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 2: for an alternative. Obviously, you and AOC are striking a

740
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 2: chord when you go out on this national tour, but

741
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 2: many people are very frustrated with the Democratic Party. They

742
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:13,439
Speaker 2: use words like feckless and ineffectual and rudderless. And I'm

743
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: curious if you could share what you think is wrong

744
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 2: with the Democratic Party, and I know you've been very

745
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 2: critical and not only what's wrong with it, but how

746
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: to make it right.

747
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: I think the Democratic Party is pulling out with the

748
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: lowest that has pulled decades. And I think, look again,

749
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: I don't care what your politics. Maybe, I'm sure we

750
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: have people like President Trump watching us. Everybody knows the

751
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 1: country is in trouble, in deep trouble. And my view,

752
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: Trump is making a very bad situation much worse. And

753
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: I think what people are saying is give us an understanding.

754
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: Why are things happening the way they are and what

755
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: are you going to do about it? Now? In my view,

756
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is a demogogue and he does what demogogues

757
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: historically and all over the world today are doing. And

758
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: what demogogues are is are people who recognize that there

759
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: are serious problems facing the country. And Trump does. But

760
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: then what you do is you blame a powerless minority

761
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: for all of the problems. So in Germany in the

762
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: twenties and the thirties, it was the Jews who caused

763
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: all of the mass of economic problems facing the German people.

764
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: It was gypsies, it was gay people, in America, We've

765
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: always had, you know, the black community to blame for

766
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: all of our problems. Gaze, and today what Trump is

767
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 1: focusing on is on undocumented people. You can't afford housing,

768
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 1: it's undocumented, can't afford healthcare, it's the undocumented. Climate change

769
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,439
Speaker 1: is sweeping the world. It's clearly the undocumented. Your kid's

770
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: not got any good education, the undocumented. That's what demogogues do.

771
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,439
Speaker 1: You take a powerless minority and you blame them rather

772
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: than address the real issues. And to me, the failure

773
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party has been an unwillingness to recognize

774
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: the real issues. And that, by the way, is what

775
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: this book is about. The real issues are that we

776
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:25,240
Speaker 1: are increasingly living in an oligarchic society. We're a handful

777
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 1: of billionaires who are incredibly greedy. These are not nice guys,

778
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: want it all and they control to a large degree,

779
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 1: both the Republican and Democratic Party. And what Democratics and

780
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: Mamdani and New York is beginning to do, this is

781
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: unprepared to take on the alogogus. You want to spend

782
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: all your money against me, go for it. I have

783
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,280
Speaker 1: working class support, I have volunteers all over this country

784
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,879
Speaker 1: and we're going to beat you. And to my mind,

785
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: that is exactly politically what we have got to do.

786
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,919
Speaker 1: And economically we need a program that the Democrats also

787
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: don't have. Again, we mentioned we discussed them ago, whether

788
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: healthcare is a human right. I have I think fifteen

789
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: or sixteen Democrats out of forty seven in the Democratic

790
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: Caucus on Medicare for Roule. All I'm asking is to do,

791
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: in one way or another, what every other major country

792
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: has done. I got one third of the Democrats. That's

793
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: not where the American people are. American people are not

794
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: where the Democratic leadership is. On netting, Yahoo and what

795
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: is the terrible things that happen in Gaza. They're not

796
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 1: where the Democrats are. Not where they are on education,

797
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: They're not where they are demanding that the wealthy start

798
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: paying their fair share of taxes. So you ask me

799
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: why the Democratic leadership is struggling, and I think it's

800
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: largely that they are too much beholden to wealthy corporate

801
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: interests and not paying attention to the needs of the

802
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: vast majority of the people who are struggling working class people.

803
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 2: I don't want to necessarily get into a full blown

804
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: discussion of Israel and Gaza. And I understand your point

805
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: about so many people and innocent civilians dying in Gaza,

806
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: but I also think it's important, is it not to

807
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: recognize that we just mark the to your anniversary of

808
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 2: October seventh, where was the biggest tragedy, the deadliest day

809
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:18,839
Speaker 2: for the Jewish people since the Holocaust, and Zoram Mam

810
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 2: Donnie put out a statement that failed to condemn Hamas

811
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:29,240
Speaker 2: on October eighth, before any military action had taken place

812
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 2: from Israel. And I think that's why many Jews in

813
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 2: New York City, just getting back as a microcosm of

814
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 2: kind of national conversations, feel uncomfortable or even fearful of

815
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:46,879
Speaker 2: Zoram Mom Donnie. So you're Jewish, Bernie, right, I mean?

816
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 2: And so I know you mentioned Gaza twice, and I

817
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 2: hear what you're saying and understand very well how public

818
00:49:55,480 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: opinion has changed, But your failure to even mention October

819
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 2: seventh seems odd to me.

820
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: No, it's not a failure if you check everything that I've.

821
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 2: Written, well, at least during our conversation here.

822
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: So let me be clear, Kamas is a terrorist organization,

823
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: which I hope does not exist in the future. Camas

824
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: committed a disgusting war crime, attacked Israel, killed twelve hundred

825
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 1: innocent men, women and children, a lot of young people,

826
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: took hundreds of hostages, barbaric. The people who orchestrated that

827
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 1: disgusting attack are war criminals. Period. I have condemned from

828
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: day one that disgusting attack against Israel, period. And furthermore, Katie,

829
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: in my view, Israel had like any other country on Earth,

830
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: if somebody a terrorist attack takes place, you have the

831
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: right to respond. Israel had the right to respond and

832
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: to go after Kamas. Period. I've said that from day one.

833
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: But what I have also said is it is one

834
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: thing to go after Hamas. It is another thing to

835
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: go to war against the entire Palestinian people and end

836
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: up killing or injuring ten percent of the population. If

837
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 1: that same equivalent number applied to America, that would mean

838
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: thirty three million Americans would have been killed or wounded. Okay,

839
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: Israel did not have the right to destroy virtually every

840
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: healthcare facility and hospital, and school and university and water

841
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 1: system and housing. Almost all of the housing in Gaza

842
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: has been destroyed. So, Katie, Hamas is a disgusting terrorist organization,

843
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 1: and I want to see the Palestinian people be able

844
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: to evolve into a democratic society without a terrible group

845
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: like Hamas. But on the other hand, the leaders of

846
00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: Kamas who engineered that attack are war criminals. D'ataignelle who

847
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: as of two weeks ago was starving, starving to death

848
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: the children, Polsinian children, and Gause he's also a Wokoman.

849
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 2: Thank you for responding to that. I want to spend

850
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: the last few minutes if I could, asking questions that

851
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 2: my followers wanted me to ask you, because one of

852
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: the great things about this kind of journalism it's very

853
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 2: interactive and you can can basically give voice to people

854
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: who don't have an opportunity to sit with you, Bernie

855
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: for an hour and have a conversation. Here's one. What

856
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 2: do you think Trump is truly saying to Congress to

857
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 2: keep them in line? Is he threatening them with physical violence?

858
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 2: Look what happened to the judge who's vacation home was

859
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 2: bomb when she made a decision against Trump. He's come

860
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 2: to meet with Congress many time, one was just recently.

861
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 2: I guess the question is why are so many Republicans

862
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 2: failing to speak out against someone you consider an oligarch.

863
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 1: Oligogue and a demagogue. Thank you listener for asking that question.

864
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: When I talk about what I worry about in America today,

865
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: maybe I'm just an old fashioned conservative. I don't know.

866
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: I kind of believe in democracy, and that is that

867
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: I was elected to represent the people of Vermont, and

868
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 1: ninety nine other Senators were elected to represent the people

869
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: in their states. But what I see happening in the

870
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: Republican Party and it pains me because, let me be

871
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: very clear, I know many of these Republicans and I

872
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: disagree with them. They are often quite conservative men and women.

873
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: I don't think they evil people. I don't think they

874
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: are fascists. I don't think they believe in violence. But

875
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: what I do believe is they are very much intimidated

876
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: by Trump and the oligogus behind them. I will give

877
00:53:54,520 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 1: you just two examples. Many months ago, Democrats and Republicans

878
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,760
Speaker 1: worked on what was called a continuing resolution to fund

879
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 1: the government, and they argued for months on healthcare and

880
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: everything else. Finally they reached a compromise. And I had

881
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: worked on that bill a lot of healthcare provisions in there.

882
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: I worked on literally they were going to vote on

883
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: it in the House of Representative. I don't know if

884
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: you remember this, Yes, Elon Musk sent out a tweet,

885
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: and in his tweet he lied. He said, oh, this,

886
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: this legislation will increase salaries some members of Congress by

887
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: forty percent total. Lie et cetera, et cetera. And I

888
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: literally a day or so before the vote, Republicans said,

889
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: oh my god, Elon Musk is going to run against us.

890
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 1: He's going to fund candidates against us. We can't support it.

891
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: That agreement fell through, which, by the way, leads us

892
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: to where we are in the shutdown today, many many

893
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 1: months later. Another example, conservative Republican guy named Tom Tillis.

894
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know Tom.

895
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:01,479
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I actually he heard you talking about Tom

896
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 2: Tillis on CNN the other night. But go ahead, for

897
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,879
Speaker 2: those people who might have missed that town hall, tell

898
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: us what happened. Tell us what happened to Tom Tillis.

899
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 1: Tell us is for North carol conservative Republican guy reads

900
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: the legislation, the big, big, beautiful bill. This is going

901
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 1: to be a disaster for North Carolina. People are going

902
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:21,879
Speaker 1: to lose their healthcare. Of course, they're gonna stark camp

903
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: voteford in one day, Trump and the whole right wing

904
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 1: apparatus go after this guy. Billionaires say we're going to

905
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: primary you. You're out of here. Guy says, all right, fine,

906
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 1: our surrender. I'm not running for reelection. Very few Republicans

907
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: right now in the House or the Senate have the

908
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 1: courage to say, you know what, Donald Trump, you're acting unconstitutionally.

909
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 1: You're acting illegally, You're moving this country toward authoritarianism. Your

910
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: healthcare proposals are a disaster. More than a few understand that.

911
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 1: But because of the power of the moneyed interest who

912
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 1: will primary them if they stand up the Trump, they're silent,

913
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: and that concerns me very much.

914
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 2: So they care more about power than their conscience.

915
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: They understand that if they stand up and do the

916
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 1: right thing, they're going to have a hard time getting reelected. Now,

917
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: by the way, there are some who have said, you

918
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: know what, I don't give it THEMN I'm going to

919
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 1: represent my district, but they are few and far far between.

920
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 2: In closing, Bernie, because you've been so generous with your time,

921
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:30,959
Speaker 2: the government shutdown is continuing. Democrats are holding firm Republicans

922
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:35,720
Speaker 2: are holding firm. Each side I think believes they're winning

923
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 2: the pr battle, if you will. How is this going

924
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 2: to end? When is it going to end?

925
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 1: I hope it ends tomorrow. I hope it ends as

926
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 1: soon as possible, because nobody wants to see hard working

927
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: federal employees not get a paycheck or get fired or

928
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,879
Speaker 1: get fired all. Butitrarily absolutely by Trump, which is by

929
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,839
Speaker 1: the way, illegal. But look out has not been something

930
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: that the Trump administration worries much about. But this is

931
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,399
Speaker 1: what I think, Katie, this is my own view. I'll

932
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 1: just tell you, you know, literally yesterday in Vermont, you know,

933
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: people are beating to receive their notices from the insurance companies,

934
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: asn't I you know, I just mentioned I've been talking

935
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: about the last couple of days. People are saying not

936
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: only a doubling in their premiums, not only are tripling,

937
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: in some cases are quadrupling of their premiums. In southern Vermont,

938
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: there are folks who are going to be paying fifty

939
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: percent of their middle class incomes on healthcare. That is

940
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 1: not only unconscionable, it's unsustainable. Nobody could do that. And

941
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: I think all over the country people are beginning to

942
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 1: get notices from their insurance companies about skyrocketing healthcare costs.

943
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: And I think Republicans will talk about everything. Just the

944
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: other day, Trump attacked me and on and on and

945
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: on forgot to mention one word, two words healthcare. They

946
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about healthcare. But the American people

947
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: are catching on that we cannot see huge increases in

948
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:09,959
Speaker 1: our healthcare premiums. We cannot see fifteen million people thrown

949
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: off of healthcare. In my view, and you know I

950
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: do study these things a little bit. We have a

951
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: broken system right now before Trump, they are taking us

952
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: over the edge and we may see our healthcare system

953
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: literally collapse.

954
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 2: Do you think Republicans are going to budge or Democrats

955
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 2: are going to blink?

956
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: I think Republicans when they go home to their districts,

957
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: they're going to hear from people say, you cannot vote

958
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: to double a triple my healthcare premiums. I can't afford it,

959
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 1: don't do it. And I think an agreement will be

960
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: reached on that basis.

961
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 2: Senator Bernie Sanders, honestly, I could talk to you for

962
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 2: two more hours. There's so many questions I didn't get

963
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 2: to about what's happening with young men in this country.

964
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 2: I wanted to talk to you more about Zarah mom, Donnie,

965
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 2: but I questions for you. I know, I'm sure you

966
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 2: add more questions for me. But really it's great to

967
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 2: see you. I really really appreciate your time. And for

968
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 2: those who are interested. Your book. It's a small book.

969
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 2: You can carry it in your purse, almost in your pocket,

970
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 2: not quite called Fight Oligarchy by Bernie Sanders, and on

971
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 2: the back it says, Oligarchy is a system in which

972
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 2: a small number of extremely wealthy individuals control the economic, political,

973
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 2: and media life of a nation. It is a system

974
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 2: in which ordinary people have very little power to determine

975
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 2: the future of their country. If you're an American, it

976
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 2: is the system in which you're living that must change.

977
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 2: And the wealthiest nation on earth, we must build a

978
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 2: political movement that creates a government that represents all Americans,

979
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 2: not just a handful of billionaires. That's a bit of

980
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 2: what you'll read about in this book, in a lot

981
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 2: more detail. Again, Bernie Sanders, thank you so much.

982
00:59:57,760 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Kitty, good to talk to you.

983
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. Everyone. If you have a question for me,

984
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 2: a subject you want us to cover, or you want

985
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 2: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,

986
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 2: reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would

987
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 2: love to hear from you. Next Question is a production

988
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 2: of iHeartMedia and Katiekuric Media. The executive producers are Me,

989
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 2: Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz,

990
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 2: and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian

991
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 2: Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,

992
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 2: or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call,

993
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 2: go to the description in the podcast app, or visit

994
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 2: us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me

995
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 2: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more

996
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

997
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi everyone, it's

998
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 2: Katie Couric. You know I'm always on the go between

999
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 2: running my media company, hosting my podcast, and of course

1000
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 2: covering the news. And I know that to keep doing

1001
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 2: what I love, I need to start caring for what

1002
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Speaker 2: gets me there, my feet. That's why I decided to

1003
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1004
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1005
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Speaker 2: a personalized fitting, I left the store with my three

1006
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Speaker 2: step system designed to improve comfort, balance and support. My feet, knees,

1007
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1008
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1009
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