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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: We're coming out.

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Speaker 1: I don't know I time.

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Speaker 2: You need to find Yes, I know it's because.

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Speaker 1: You're too short.

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Speaker 3: Howlut.

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Speaker 1: My family and I come to Portoransis a few times

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Speaker 1: a year. It's one of my most favorite vacations because

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Speaker 1: we rent a condo and we always invite my parents

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Speaker 1: to stay with us and we get to hang out

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Speaker 1: on the beach. You'll meet my parents later. We drive

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Speaker 1: through Ransis Pass to drive onto the ferry that will

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Speaker 1: take us to port A in just fifteen minutes. On

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Speaker 1: the ferry, my girls love to keep a lookout for

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Speaker 1: dolphins in the bay.

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Speaker 4: You're looking for dolphins, which we'll be right out somewhere

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Speaker 4: around in here. Did you see no? Is there one

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Speaker 4: over there that seems flashing in the water?

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Speaker 5: Okay?

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Speaker 1: Not a lot has changed since the nineteen thirties. Port

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Speaker 1: Auransis is still a tourist town, and Aransas Pass has

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Speaker 1: never really been able to compare, although there are fishing

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Speaker 1: boats that you can charter there in Aransas Pass. During Prohibition,

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Speaker 1: it seemed pretty easy for some folks to go missing

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Speaker 1: and never be found. But those were people who didn't

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Speaker 1: have loved ones looking for them. That was not the

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Speaker 1: case for eighteen year old Dorothy Simons. Dorothy went missing

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Speaker 1: on the final Thursday of July nineteen thirty one. Forty

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Speaker 1: hours later, on Saturday, August first, someone discovered a body.

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Speaker 1: Only one hand was visible because the rest of the

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Speaker 1: corpse was buried in the mud near the ocean. The

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Speaker 1: body was found by a man and his family who

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Speaker 1: were camping nearby. He raced to the police station and

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Speaker 1: reported what he found. Local law enforcement officers responded immediately.

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Speaker 1: The body was covered with sea moss and shells. It

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Speaker 1: was lodged in a bar pit, which is a stretch

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Speaker 1: of still water going off to the side from a

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Speaker 1: river or a lake. The police climbed to the east

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Speaker 1: side of the Seawall Channel, which was nearly four hundred

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Speaker 1: yards south of the Aransas Harbor Terminal Railway tracks. Precision

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Speaker 1: and attention to detail are crucial at any crime scene.

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Speaker 1: Investigators and first responders and crime scene analysts have to

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Speaker 1: protect the site from contamination, and often the victim will

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Speaker 1: lay there for hours while the team gathers evidence, and

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Speaker 1: then after all potential evidence has been collected from the

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Speaker 1: scene and the removal of the body has to be

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Speaker 1: expertly executed. Fred Burton is a former federal agent, and

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Speaker 1: he's been an investigator on numerous high profile cases. He

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Speaker 1: says that doing all of that is sometimes tough for

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Speaker 1: police in small towns with few resources. Particularly in nineteen thirty.

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Speaker 3: One, there's no van with crime scene analysts showing up

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Speaker 3: in white suits. You're left your own skill set, which

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Speaker 3: is very limited in that timeframe, to do the best

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Speaker 3: you can to bring the body out of the mud

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Speaker 3: in all probability, transport that body to the funeral home

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Speaker 3: where you're going to try to do your best to

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Speaker 3: recover whatever physical evidence is remaining on the body, and

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Speaker 3: hopefully that has an ID. You know, something as basic

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Speaker 3: as not knowing who this person is might be, you know,

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Speaker 3: a factor during that time period.

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Speaker 1: In a town as small as ramsis, pass news travels fast.

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Speaker 1: At least at the scene must have known about Dorothy's disappearance.

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Speaker 1: Agnes Simons had reported her daughter missing just two days earlier.

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Speaker 1: Her friends reported that Dorothy was wearing her black and

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Speaker 1: yellow bathing suit under her dress. Agnes also said that

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Speaker 1: both she and her husband told Dorothy to skip swimming

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Speaker 1: at night. It was too dangerous if only Dorothy had listened.

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Speaker 1: When the authorities carefully pulled the body from the bar pit,

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Speaker 1: it turned out to be a woman, a woman clad

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Speaker 1: in a black and yellow bathing suit. An official identification

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Speaker 1: of the body would have to wait, but the color

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Speaker 1: of the bathing suit was enough. The local sheriff knew

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Speaker 1: that this was Dorothy Simon's, but there's one thing that

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Speaker 1: they couldn't have known at the time. Did she die

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Speaker 1: from an accident like drowning or was it murder. The

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Speaker 1: study of criminology is an important part of my job

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Speaker 1: as an investigator journalist, and it's one of my most

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Speaker 1: favorite parts. I talk a lot about criminology in my books.

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Speaker 1: It's an evolving academic discipline that goes beyond inquiry into

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Speaker 1: crimes and criminal behavior. Criminology includes the study of sociology

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Speaker 1: and psychology, anthropology, economics, and statistics. That's a lot to

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Speaker 1: juggle when you're sorting out a crime. I've talked to

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Speaker 1: many criminologists over the course of my reporting and teaching career.

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Speaker 1: I find the work totally fascinating, and I'm particularly interested

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Speaker 1: in their science based approach to criminal justice and social policy.

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Speaker 1: In researching Dorothy's case, I wanted to focus on a

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Speaker 1: particular aspect of criminology. It's called victimology. Paul Hols is

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Speaker 1: a former cold case investigator and he was one of

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Speaker 1: the people who helped solve the Golden State killer case.

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Speaker 1: Paul is an expert in victimology. Is that one of

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Speaker 1: the ways that we go from the victim to figuring

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Speaker 1: out who the killer was. Explain that for me right.

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Speaker 6: Victimology is a very broad term. It refers to, of course,

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Speaker 6: who the person is. You know, their name, their background,

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Speaker 6: where do they work, their education, you know, to try

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Speaker 6: to establish, okay, this is the type of person the

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Speaker 6: victim was. The victimology also encompasses their social circles. It

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Speaker 6: encompasses their personality. If they were confronted by an offender,

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Speaker 6: how would this person respond? Are they a fighter? Are

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Speaker 6: they somebody who would go passive and basically allow the

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Speaker 6: offender to command them? So that plays into not only

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Speaker 6: the investigative side, it also plays into the behavioral assessment

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Speaker 6: of what happened between the offender and the victim.

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Speaker 1: Why do we care so much about a victim's habits

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Speaker 1: or her personality?

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Speaker 6: Well, based on the victim's personality, This is how we

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Speaker 6: would expect that person to respond when confronted with a

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Speaker 6: violent situation, a crime situation. And then of course there's

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Speaker 6: risk assessment in terms of is this victim somebody who

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Speaker 6: is partaking in certain aspects that is elevating their likelihood

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Speaker 6: of becoming the victim of a crime. Is this a

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Speaker 6: person that is going out on the street corner in

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Speaker 6: the middle of the night and buying drugs. They're more

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Speaker 6: likely to be shot by a drug dealer. It elevates

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Speaker 6: their risk than somebody who never does that. So understanding

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Speaker 6: victimology is huge.

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Speaker 1: Fred Burton also relied on victimology during his own investigations.

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Speaker 4: If I talk about when you're investigating a murder, we

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Speaker 4: know the victim is, but we're not sure who the

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Speaker 4: killer is just yet. What does it mean if I'm

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Speaker 4: saying that you are, as an investigator looking into the

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Speaker 4: victim's sphere their.

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Speaker 3: World from a victimology perspective, I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: cases and a lot of investigators tend to want to

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Speaker 3: focus on the suspects. Meaning as you step back and

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Speaker 3: let's say you have a body, you want to tend

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Speaker 3: to find the person that was responsible for that murder.

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Speaker 3: And what you don't see a lot of at times,

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Speaker 3: especially in rural department or departments that don't handle a

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Speaker 3: lot of homicides, is comprehensive understanding of the victim.

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Speaker 1: Talking about victimology got me thinking about a story that's

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Speaker 1: really attracted attention over the past year, the Gabby Petito case.

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Speaker 1: Gabby was an aspiring YouTube star and she was really

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Speaker 1: active on social media. Gabby and her fiance set out

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Speaker 1: on a cross country road trip in June of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one, and by August, just two months later, Gabby

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Speaker 1: Petito had gone missing. Remember that in the last episode

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Speaker 1: we talked about how young women go missing more than

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Speaker 1: any other age group. Gabby's disappearance caused a media frenzy.

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Speaker 1: The twenty two year old was just a few years

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Speaker 1: older than Dorothy. Karen Kilgareff covers true crime on her

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Speaker 1: podcast My Favorite Murder. She's also my colleague and an

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Speaker 1: executive producer of tenfold More Wicked. We talked a long

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Speaker 1: time about the Gabby Patito case. Let's talk about Gabby

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Speaker 1: Patito just because I want to get your impression on this.

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Speaker 1: What do you think made this case so interesting to people.

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Speaker 7: Well, first of all, there's lots of things. She was

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Speaker 7: a YouTuber, she was young and blonde and pretty, which

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Speaker 7: we all know. The media has been driving that story

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Speaker 7: since day one, and we all know that that's always prioritized.

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Speaker 7: The cynicism of that is just a reality. It should change,

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Speaker 7: It needs to change. It hasn't yet.

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Speaker 1: Karen's making an important point here, and it's one that

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Speaker 1: I find particularly disturbing and that Dereka and Natalie Wilson

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Speaker 1: have built their careers on. They are sisters in law,

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Speaker 1: and they co founded the Black and Missing Foundation in Maryland.

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Speaker 1: It's a nonprofit organization that draws awareness to missing persons

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Speaker 1: of color. Instead of saying why are people of color

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Speaker 1: ignored to a certain extent when they are missing? I

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Speaker 1: want to flip it and say, can someone explain to

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Speaker 1: me why missing white woman syndrome is in true crime

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Speaker 1: and why Ga Patito is the perfect example of why

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Speaker 1: this has happened with this case.

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Speaker 8: Well, I think it first and foremost. You know missing

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Speaker 8: white woman syndrome that was coined by the late great

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Speaker 8: Gwen Eiffel. Unless it's a white female, blonde hair, blue eyes,

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Speaker 8: fairly attractive, the case just isn't sensational enough. And we

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Speaker 8: see this so often, so many years, and it's bound

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Speaker 8: to happen again. It's like there's this media obsession in

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Speaker 8: law enforcement. When you look at Gabby Patito's case, I

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Speaker 8: mean you had every police jurisdiction, every federal jurisdiction, all

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Speaker 8: the resources, the cadaverdogs, the drones, the divers, the four wheelers.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile it's the families of people of color who most

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Speaker 1: frequently don't get answers.

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Speaker 2: Yes. So there has been a longstanding issue where these

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Speaker 2: cases one aren't taken serily by law enforcement, and they

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Speaker 2: are the first line of defense, so the first gatekeepers

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Speaker 2: to get in that media coverage. There is a stereotype

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Speaker 2: that you know, our missing are involved with some type

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Speaker 2: of criminal activity or you know, their children who left

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Speaker 2: home voluntarily or ran away. So again, the cases aren't

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Speaker 2: taken seriously. They are no Amber alerts for them, so

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Speaker 2: there's definitely no media coverage at all. But this has

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Speaker 2: been a longstanding issue and we're trying to change the

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Speaker 2: narrative to show that these are missing mothers and fathers,

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Speaker 2: you know, our valuable members of our community.

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Speaker 1: It's unbelievable, so it really isn't.

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Speaker 8: I would say that it's race based. It's like, damn

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Speaker 8: if you you know, if you're black and brown and

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Speaker 8: you're missing, you're basically on your own. You know. That's

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Speaker 8: how I view it, and we have to change that.

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Speaker 1: I'll go into more details about this issue later and

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about some of those cases, both professionally and personally.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a conversation that deserves more attention, a

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Speaker 1: lot more. Karen Kilgareff has covered a wide range of

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Speaker 1: missing person cases, and not all of them involve attractive,

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Speaker 1: young white women. I wanted to get her take on

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Speaker 1: another reason why the Gabby Patito case has gotten so

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Speaker 1: much attention. I just wonder if we would have gotten

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Speaker 1: the same reaction if it was both of them who

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Speaker 1: were missing. If we don't know who the killer is

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Speaker 1: and we're trying to find this woman, would we have

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Speaker 1: gotten the same response as we knew who the boogeyman

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Speaker 1: was and he's on the run somewhere.

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Speaker 7: Yes, that was a man hunt story. It's a little

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Speaker 7: bit horrifying. Never before have we seen it discussed almost

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Speaker 7: real time, which I think is incredible. And then there

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Speaker 7: was the man on the run aspect of it. It

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Speaker 7: was like, could we catch him as a nation, as

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Speaker 7: a group of people tracking this. What if in the

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Speaker 7: alternate reality he didn't do it, and people are tracking

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Speaker 7: him down and believing that he did do it. There's

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Speaker 7: a lot of issues. Are we innocent until proven guilty?

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Speaker 1: That issue comes up in this case too. A formal

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Speaker 1: investigation began in Ransa's pass almost immediately after Dorothy's body

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Speaker 1: was discovered. Sheriff Frank Hunt led the inquest into her

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Speaker 1: cause of death, and when he made his findings public,

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Speaker 1: they shocked the residents of the town and a collective

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Speaker 1: sense of fear and suspicion would frighten just about everyone.

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Speaker 1: The coroner lifted the sheet covering Dorothy's unclothed body. Of course,

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Speaker 1: he had seen it ever before, but this seemed really different.

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Speaker 1: She was young, she didn't seem to have an at

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Speaker 1: risk life, but the wounds on her body told him

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Speaker 1: a story. He picked up Dorothy's right arm. It was bruised,

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Speaker 1: her throat seemed to have internal bleeding like she had

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Speaker 1: been choked, and her chest was caked with blood. He

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Speaker 1: looked inside her nose, it was filled with blood. Blood

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Speaker 1: was dripping down her face. This was a violent death,

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Speaker 1: not an accidental drowning. The coroner believed that someone strangled

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Speaker 1: Dorothy to death while he or she held her underwater.

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Speaker 1: He was certain that it was murder. Over the next

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Speaker 1: few weeks, the sheriff and his deputies continued investigating the

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Speaker 1: death of Dorothy Simons. Here's what he says happened. There

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Speaker 1: was an argument and the killer strangled Dorothy with her

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Speaker 1: hands before she died. They shoved her head underwater, and

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Speaker 1: once she stopped struggling, they needed to cover up the murder.

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Speaker 1: They dragged Dorothy through the water and then dragged her

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Speaker 1: over a man made sea wall separating the channel from

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Speaker 1: a small area of breakwater on Redfish Bay. That must

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Speaker 1: have taken a tremendous amount of effort and someone pretty strong.

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Speaker 1: The killer was likely a He dug a shallow grave

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Speaker 1: near the edge of the water. The whole thing was

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Speaker 1: covered with heavy seaweed. He placed her body inside the

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Speaker 1: grave and covered it with sand and more seaweed. Seashells

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Speaker 1: became entangled with the seaweed. It was a horrible final

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Speaker 1: resting place for Dorothy Simon's The coroner slid a document

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Speaker 1: onto his desk a death certificate, and I found it

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Speaker 1: in cursive writing using a black pen. He added details

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Speaker 1: from Dorothy's life. She was born on May seventh, nineteen thirteen.

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Speaker 1: She was female, white and single. Agnes had told the

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Speaker 1: coroner where she herself was born in Indiana, but Agnes

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Speaker 1: didn't know where Dorothy's father was born. Seems kind of odd,

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Speaker 1: but Ralph Johnson was so shady it doesn't surprise me.

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Speaker 1: Then near the bottom of the document, it read cause

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Speaker 1: of death was as follows from violence, strangulation, homicide. Dorothy

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00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,000
Speaker 1: Simons had been identified, her death had been officially declared

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Speaker 1: a murder, and the search for Dorothy's killer was just

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Speaker 1: getting started. Dorothy Simons was buried on August second, nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty one. It was a Sunday, the same day when

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Speaker 1: Dorothy would typically be singing in the Saint Mary's Church

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Speaker 1: choir during services. She really loved doing that, but this Sunday,

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00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:48,040
Speaker 1: most of Oransi's pass mourned her death instead. The Simon's

263
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,760
Speaker 1: family was devastated. Agnes, her husband Howard, and their sons

264
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Speaker 1: David and Joe, watched as Dorothy was laid to rest.

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Speaker 1: Agnes in particular, would be haunted by this day for decades.

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Speaker 1: She never seemed to be able to heal from the

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Speaker 1: loss of her only daughter. There was no closure, no goodbye,

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Speaker 1: just sorrow for now. JB. Simons was Dorothy's nephew.

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Speaker 9: I have never asked, mom, you know, has Grandma ever

270
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,960
Speaker 9: talked to you about Doroth or anything like that. It

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Speaker 9: just kind of left it in the air.

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Speaker 1: Joe's widow, Helen, talked to me about how difficult it

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Speaker 1: was to discuss the tragedy with her mother in law Agnes.

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Speaker 1: It was just too painful.

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Speaker 5: She told me that she was killed and I said, no,

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Speaker 5: I've understood that. I'm sorry to hear that. It sounded

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Speaker 5: like she was a pretty nice girl, and she piped

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Speaker 5: up she was a perfect girl.

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Speaker 1: Even into adulthood. Joe Simons barely talked about his older sister.

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Speaker 5: He talked about it after we got to talking about it.

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Speaker 5: When he finally told me he had had a sister

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Speaker 5: that was killed. I said, how is she killed? Do

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Speaker 5: you know you're going to ask? And he said, well,

284
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Speaker 5: come right down to it. I guess she'd call her

285
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,840
Speaker 5: she was murdered. And I said, what a horrible thing.

286
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Speaker 5: No wonder Agnes had a attitude about things and people.

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Speaker 1: My conversation with Helen Simons made me circle back to

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Speaker 1: the start of the season. I mentioned how little the

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Speaker 1: Simon's descendants knew about their family's heartbreaking legacy and how

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00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 1: a distant family tragedy can reverberate through generations. I tracked

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00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,000
Speaker 1: down some of the relatives of Dorothy's older brother, David.

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Speaker 1: David and Joe have both died. I had a long

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Speaker 1: conversation with David's daughter Nancy. I started calling it the

294
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Speaker 1: trickle down effect, and it seems like a ton of

295
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 1: bricks landing on several different families in the future based

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Speaker 1: on what happened.

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Speaker 10: I think that's a good analysis, especially since Agnes, the

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00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 10: mother of Dorothy, was so terribly devastated and obviously that

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Speaker 10: affected how her family moved on and then how they

300
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 10: moved on from there.

301
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Speaker 8: JB.

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Speaker 1: Simons and his mother Helen agree that Agnes was really

303
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,200
Speaker 1: affected by Dorothy's death and her reaction really affected her

304
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Speaker 1: son Joe.

305
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 9: On one Mother's Day, we were in church and the

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00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 9: very first time I ever saw my father cry. The

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00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,879
Speaker 9: men in the church were standing up giving testimonials about

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00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 9: how much they loved their mother and what their mother

309
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,000
Speaker 9: meant to My dad's stands up and said, I'm really

310
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 9: glad you all can say those kinds of things, because

311
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,359
Speaker 9: I've never heard my mother ever say I love you.

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00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:43,439
Speaker 9: So that guy stuck with me.

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Speaker 5: Well, that's true.

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Speaker 9: That's pretty tough.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean poor Agnes, my goodness.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, she had hard life.

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Speaker 4: Do you think that if Dorothy had not been killed,

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Speaker 4: that Agnes would have been a person.

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Speaker 5: Oh, my goodness, yes, absolutely, in what way.

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Speaker 9: She'd been happy.

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Speaker 1: The sheriff held an official inquest into Dorothy's murder, but

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00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 1: boy was it fast. He quickly arrested their main suspect

323
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 1: just shortly after her body was discovered. It was her

324
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Speaker 1: on again, off again boyfriend, Newton Yarberry. Sheriff Hunt placed

325
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Speaker 1: Yarberry under arrest, and then he was transferred to the

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Speaker 1: county jail in Stinton, Texas, a small town about twenty

327
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Speaker 1: five miles west of Ransa's Pass. Local press, of course,

328
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:46,199
Speaker 1: jumped on the story. The media reported that Newton had

329
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Speaker 1: been dating Dorothy off and on for about two years.

330
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Speaker 1: That put him at the top of their list of suspects.

331
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Speaker 1: I uncovered conflicting accounts of Newton's character, but some definitely

332
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Speaker 1: made him seem untrustworthy.

333
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Speaker 5: JB.

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Speaker 1: Simons had heard them too.

335
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Speaker 9: My father had a conversation with a lady in Amanda's past.

336
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 9: The town was very, very sure that Yarborough killed her.

337
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 9: He was known to be somewhat of a bully and

338
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,359
Speaker 9: an arrogant little crap.

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Speaker 1: I alluded to this earlier. There seemed to be a

340
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 1: general sense of distrust surrounding Newton Yarbery, or maybe I

341
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,959
Speaker 1: should say confusion. Newspapers had printed inconsistent information about his

342
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 1: age and his profession. It's almost as though he didn't

343
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Speaker 1: want people to know who he really was. Maybe he

344
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: didn't want people to know his business, maybe because he

345
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: harbored a frighteningly dark side aside that Dorothy was unaware

346
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: of until it was too late, and there were more

347
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: discrepancies in the press, well more of an attempt to

348
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 1: highlight that Newton was a Yarbery, because the Yarberies were

349
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Speaker 1: a really well known family in Ransa's Pass. Newton was

350
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 1: the son of mister and Missus Alex Sharbury. They were

351
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: very respected residents of Aransa's Pass and they were good people,

352
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 1: pillars of the community. At least that's what people said.

353
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Speaker 1: Even decades later, some locals still talked about the Yarbery's

354
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 1: good reputation. On a visit to Aransa's Pass, JB. Simons

355
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 1: met a woman who actually knew them.

356
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Speaker 9: Yes, she knew that the yardberries were I think her

357
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 9: term was uppercross, which is kind of strange for Aranda's Pass.

358
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Speaker 9: And she made a comment about the mayor had gone

359
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 9: around to all of the people that were either owners

360
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 9: of businesses and bankers and that kind of stuff and

361
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 9: had them sign the document saying how much Newton and

362
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Speaker 9: the family were upstanding citizens had no problem with them.

363
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Speaker 1: The sheriff brought Newton Yarbery into the interview room and

364
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: stared at him. This was his main suspect, the man

365
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 1: who likely killed sweet and lovely Dorothy Simons. Newton seemed

366
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: bright and if he were innocent, he would do his

367
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 1: best to help the sheriff fright, No, he refused to

368
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: talk one caveat here. Innocent people do refuse to talk

369
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: to the police, and they do call attorneys. My father

370
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 1: always told me to call an attorney first if I

371
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: were ever arrested. Newton Yarbury remained calm throughout his arrest,

372
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: and his time in jail. But he refused to make

373
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: any kind of an official statement to investigators. But his father, Alex,

374
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: was willing to talk to the authorities. He claimed that

375
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: Newton was at home the night that Dorothy disappeared. That's

376
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: a lousy alibi, by the way, I think that most

377
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: fathers would probably lie to protect their sons, especially if

378
00:23:50,160 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: they thought they were innocent. Earlier I mentioned the idea

379
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: of being innocent until proven guilty. It can be hard

380
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: to keep that in mind, especially when you have a

381
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: strong suspicion that someone is guilty. The sheriff thought that

382
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: Newton was guilty, but he needed more evidence. That's one

383
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 1: of the hard things about the law. There's a difference

384
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: between thinking someone is guilty and being able to prove it.

385
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: My dad always said that legal professionals deal with dilemmas

386
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: like that all the time. I asked defense attorney Bill

387
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 1: Allison about his approach to complicated cases where everyone suspects

388
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: his client.

389
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 4: It must be unpleasant to defend someone who has done

390
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 4: something heinous. How as any defense attorney, how did you

391
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 4: reconcile that?

392
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 11: You're talking about the age old question of how can

393
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 11: you represent that guy? I don't think we'll ever solve that.

394
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 11: I never had any problems with it. I had kind

395
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 11: of two rules. One was that my job was to

396
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 11: defend the despised. That was my job, and I like

397
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 11: doing it. I got a certain thrill out of being

398
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 11: pretty much out there on my own and that I

399
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 11: was the only person who could stand between this man

400
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,959
Speaker 11: and whatever the power of the government could bring forward.

401
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: That's part of defending people. That's your job.

402
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 4: And everybody deserves a defense no matter what they've done,

403
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 4: no matter what we think, because that's the way the

404
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 4: criminal justice system works.

405
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 11: The only way to deal with them was to just

406
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 11: be slightly better at what you did and know your procedure,

407
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 11: know your evidence. Those are two things that if you

408
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 11: can get a handle on them, you pick up a

409
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 11: lot of advantages over the other person.

410
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: So mister Jarberry had given Newton an alibi. His son

411
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: was home with him and his wife all night. But

412
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: there was a problem. Newton's mother was asked to give

413
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: a separate statement, and it was pretty different. Hattie Yarbury

414
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: told the sheriff that she had last seen Dorothy on Thursday,

415
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: July thirty first. Dorothy had visited Newton around one thirty

416
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: that afternoon, and after they talked, Newton walked Dorothy home

417
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: in the early evening. That's what his mother said. Newton

418
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: then returned to his parents' house for dinner around seven thirty.

419
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: According to missus Yarberry, Newton left after supper, but he

420
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: was home by nine thirty, so he was gone for

421
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,479
Speaker 1: less than two hours that night. She said he went

422
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: straight to bed. The next morning, he was at the

423
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: breakfast table by eight am. Clearly, something's not right here.

424
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: Mister Garberry gave the impression that had his son had

425
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: been home all night long, but his wife acknowledged that

426
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: Newton had left the house even though it wasn't for

427
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: very long. Their stories were clearly inconsistent, which makes me

428
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: wonder did Newton's father just forget those details or was

429
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: someone lying. This feels like a good time to start

430
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: on a list of suspects. Obviously, there's Newton, there's just

431
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: no solid evidence to tie him to the crime. But

432
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: Dorothy was very popular in town, and she had many friends,

433
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: and some of them were men. Maybe she had been

434
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,719
Speaker 1: out with someone other than Newton that night, and maybe

435
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: that someone had a serious jealous streak. We know that

436
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: Dorothy's biological father had once threatened to kidnap her. Was

437
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: Ralph Johnson involved? Would he have really killed his own daughter?

438
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: Or was this a random act of violence? What if

439
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: a stranger had wandered into town, someone who was capable

440
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: of murder. If your mind works the way mine does,

441
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: and I know most of yours do, you might be

442
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: wondering how there could have been so little evidence, If

443
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: this were a crime of passion, how would the killer

444
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: have gotten away without leaving any latent clues? Or you

445
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: might even start to wonder if we're actually dealing with

446
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: an experienced killer. Paul Hols knows a lot about those.

447
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 6: Over the decades, I ended up being involved in many,

448
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 6: many cold cases that had a broad spectrum of different

449
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 6: types of circumstances, But my specialty generally was leaning towards

450
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 6: the serial predator, the fantasy motivated predator.

451
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 4: Well, and I think that's why you're going to be

452
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 4: really helpful for me in this cold case.

453
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 6: So your intelligent offender can do some things that oftentimes

454
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 6: I've seen investigators or even other experts make the mistake of, oh,

455
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 6: this person must have done this before. Not necessarily you

456
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 6: have deep thinkers out there that commit crimes, and the

457
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 6: first time they do it, they do a good job.

458
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: There's other name on the suspect list, one that I

459
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: didn't really expect, Michael Straine's grandfather, Bill Strain's dad.

460
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 12: I think my dad said that my grandpa had testified.

461
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 12: He also remembered my grandfather had been questioned that they

462
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 12: had come and I think asked my grandfather to come

463
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 12: down to the police station and talk with them.

464
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: He worked for a car dealership and he occasionally asked

465
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: Dorothy to help with deliveries.

466
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 12: Dorothy would sometimes go with him and drive a car

467
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 12: for him to drive back. I remember hearing my mother

468
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 12: tell him that people were apt to talk if he

469
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 12: were out in a car with a young single girl.

470
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: Michael stopped reading the excerpt to clarify something for me.

471
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 12: It's not really clear there he's talking about my grandfather.

472
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 12: He made it sound like it was a lot of

473
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 12: times that when my grandpa would go to sell a car,

474
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 12: he needed to ride back, and that Dorothy would take

475
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 12: another car and follow him and then you know, give him,

476
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 12: you know, then he would ride back with her.

477
00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: Did that strike your dad as on.

478
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 12: I don't think so, but but I think he thought

479
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 12: that it would strike my grandma's odd that you know that,

480
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 12: and you know, he says here that she you know,

481
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 12: she he remembers hearing her telling you know that that

482
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 12: could look real bad, but.

483
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 10: Not enough for her to.

484
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 12: Put her foot down and go, no, you can't do it.

485
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that has been horribly embarrassing for her.

486
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 12: I'm sure. I'm sure. I don't think that was her

487
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 12: first time with that, though, probably from what I understand

488
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 12: of my grandpa's life before, probably there had been other

489
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 12: embarrassments that, you know, that had happened in a little town.

490
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 12: And when your husband drinks and goes to bars and

491
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 12: you're the church lady, you know, I don't think that

492
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 12: would be her first embarrassment.

493
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 6: Ever.

494
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: That dynamic between Michael Strain's grandparents wasn't unusual for the

495
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: time and the nineteen thirties, especially in small southern towns,

496
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: women were often devoutly religious, but their husbands sometimes prioritized

497
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: their secular interests. That's certainly true of the Simons. Dorothy's mother, Agnes,

498
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: favored the Bible and Howard, Dorothy's stepfather preferred a strong drink.

499
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: During the depression, small town churches were more than just

500
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: houses of worship. With so many people struggling economically, religious

501
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: institutions were a place of refuge. Also, local churches provided

502
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: a center for community events as well as social support.

503
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: Maybe Dorothy attended Saint Mary's Church because she was a

504
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: committed Christian. Maybe she joined the choir to be social

505
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: and to spend time with friends, or maybe she just

506
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: liked to sing. I asked Walter Banger what the religious

507
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: landscape was like back when Dorothy was growing up. What

508
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: about religion in Texas during the Great Depression the.

509
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 13: Thirties, Texas is very much Protestant dominated place. Then there

510
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 13: are Catholics. There are German and Czech and ethnic Mexican

511
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 13: Catholics mainly an ethnic faith then, but the overwhelming churches

512
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 13: in Texas are Baptists, Methodists, and to a lesser degree

513
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 13: of Presbyterian, sort of what we now call the mainline

514
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 13: Protestant churches. And most of these Protestant churches were staunchly

515
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 13: anti Catholic.

516
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: Dorothy and her family were Catholic, and there were certainly

517
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: hate crimes against Catholics in the nineteen thirties. Ted Eubanks

518
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: works for Saint Mary Cathedral in Austin. He knows a

519
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: lot about Catholicism in the nineteenth century. I asked him

520
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: for the bigger picture.

521
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,239
Speaker 14: You know, the anti Catholic movement certainly was there. I

522
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 14: also think it's always been this sort of total misunderstanding

523
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 14: of the church. One is the power of the pope

524
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 14: or the power he doesn't have within the church. And

525
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 14: the second thing is just somehow that the Catholic Church

526
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 14: is sort of mysterious. What goes on in that church?

527
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 14: What are they actually you know, they believe in the

528
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 14: real body and blood, that sort.

529
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 4: Of thing, fearing something that's different.

530
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 14: Absolutely, so I think it was part ignorance, part Protestantism,

531
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 14: part popism, you know, kind of a combination.

532
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 9: Of all that.

533
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: There had been violence against Catholics a decade earlier in

534
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, including several high profile cases involving the

535
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: murders of priests in different areas of the country. Much

536
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: of that widespread violence and intimidation came from the KKK,

537
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: members targeted Catholics, accusing them of being separatists and un American.

538
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: When the clan's power began to wane in the nineteen twenties,

539
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: so did violence against Catholics, but still the sheriff in

540
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: Aransa's Pass did need to at least consider whether Dorothy's

541
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: death was because of her religion. Widespread speculation about the

542
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: case engulfed Ransa's Pass. There was too little physical evidence

543
00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: to arrest a murder suspect, let alone convict one. Local

544
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: media outlets defended yrbery. And that's a big deal because,

545
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: unlike today's world with its fast spreading internet content, in

546
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, newspapers were the main source of information.

547
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: John Bowers publishes the only paper in Aransas Pass for

548
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: a paper like yours, What is the role of a

549
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: community newspaper in the.

550
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 15: Small What we try to provide to our readers, our subscribers,

551
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 15: and all that they're interested in seeing city news, school news,

552
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 15: county news that applies to this end of the county.

553
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 15: But our role mainly is to provide news in those

554
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 15: three areas.

555
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,479
Speaker 9: People love to see what their kids are.

556
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 15: Doing in athletics and academics. They want to know what

557
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 15: the city's doing, whether it's bad or good. And most

558
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 15: of the time the city stuff is good, and we

559
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 15: report the good news. We want to play the good guy. Really,

560
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 15: we don't want to be bad guy. We don't want

561
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 15: to assume that role. We want to paint a pretty picture.

562
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 15: But we will report things that are going on that

563
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 15: are not good. But we're not looking to cruise five

564
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 15: a city manager or Chris Fider mayor or anything kind. Now,

565
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 15: that's not our role.

566
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 4: Has it been like that for the beginning, I mean

567
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 4: from the very beginning this paper has been kind of

568
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 4: like that.

569
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 15: Uplifter and hometown newspapers, all hometown newspapers that way. That's

570
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 15: whether they're still doing so well because metro papers, like

571
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 15: The Caller, they report picky, bad stuff, metro news, bad news,

572
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 15: the protests. We had a little protest here. We covered it,

573
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 15: but it didn't amount to anything, but we covered it.

574
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 15: We had a picture in the paper of it.

575
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: The power of the press can be extremely influential in

576
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: places like Arensa's pass. Now, what about crime, crime in

577
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 1: a small town?

578
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 15: I mean, was that addressed in We carry a police

579
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 15: report weekly of all the arrests that are made each

580
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 15: week and who all was charged with DWI, d u I,

581
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 15: drug crimes, that kind of stuff. We carry that in

582
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 15: our newspaper. On page two of my round Past paper

583
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 15: and page two of my English sized paper. We have

584
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 15: community calendar which talks about all the events going on

585
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 15: in the area, and then right below it is the

586
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 15: arrest report of the police department. They provide that to us.

587
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 15: They love it, they love it. They just want to

588
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 15: read about it. They just want to know. They want

589
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 15: to know who got bested for what.

590
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: Well, what if you were one of the people busted?

591
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 15: It's public record. Once you get a ticket, are you

592
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 15: get arrested, it's public record.

593
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: Isn't that kind of a little bit of like a

594
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: little public.

595
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 15: Shaming, But that's what the public wants to see.

596
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: Dorothy's public persona seemed flawless. According to her family.

597
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 5: She was really really pretty. I've seen pictures of her.

598
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 5: She was really pretty, and she was perfect as far

599
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 5: as her personality was, because she was good in school,

600
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 5: but anyway, she was highly thought of.

601
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: But after Dorothy died, rumors swirled about a secret life,

602
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: and her good girl reputation began to unravel.

603
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 12: You know, there's a there's an old country thing about

604
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 12: Texas that, you know, in a murder case, you know,

605
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 12: you want to prove the person needed killing, and I

606
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 12: don't I don't know that the things they were talking

607
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 12: about did that, but that that really used to be

608
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 12: a thing. You know, It's like, well, he was a

609
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 12: really bad guy or whatever he needed killing.

610
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: I've read these articles that just sound like she was

611
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: raked over the coals, you know, Dorothy's habits of smoking

612
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: cigarettes and drinking whiskey and swimming with boys.

613
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 5: Most people didn't have anything to say, or they put

614
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 5: her down, like you say, for cigarettes. I did talk

615
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 5: to one lady. She said every girl out there was

616
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 5: smoking cigarettes.

617
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 12: They brought out that she smoked cigarettes. They brought out

618
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 12: that she drank beer her mother. They asked her, you know,

619
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 12: did you ever see her drink whiskey? Well, I saw

620
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 12: her drink a you know, a shot of whiskey, and

621
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 12: and you know, I guess in nineteen thirty one, maybe

622
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 12: that was really scandalous.

623
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: It was really scandalous. Who was Dorothy drinking with? Was

624
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: it someone capable of murder? Did she meet someone after

625
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: she met Newton, someone who wanted to take her for

626
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: a walk on the beach. Now, there were two key questions,

627
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:27,720
Speaker 1: who committed this murder and just who was the real

628
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: Dorothy Simon's On the next episode of Tenfold War wicked

629
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: on exactly right.

630
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 14: The defense attorney's job is to try to undermine the

631
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 14: credibility of her testimony, and that's a very unpleasant thing

632
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 14: for a defense attorney.

633
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 10: Oh, she's a loose woman out there, and yet I'm

634
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 10: sure she had some issues with her mom being who

635
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 10: her mom was.

636
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: Sound like someone who's done this before? Or is it

637
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: possible that someone could be this organized, this good just

638
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: on the first go round?

639
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 6: You could have somebody who has been involved in this

640
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 6: body disposal process before.

641
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,200
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642
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644
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645
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647
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