Speaker 1: Welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westervelt. Back in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, we did a season of the podcast on
Speaker 1: the fossil fuel industry's turn toward plastic and petrochemicals as
Speaker 1: the thing that would save it as the world turned
Speaker 1: away from combustion engines. They have only leaned further into
Speaker 1: that plan over the last two years, but as we
Speaker 1: documented in our Plastic Pipelines season, grassroots activists have had
Speaker 1: a lot of success holding them off one ethane cracker
Speaker 1: facility at a time. The Foremosa plant that was planned
Speaker 1: for Saint James Parish back then is still on hold
Speaker 1: now thanks to various legal complaints filed on behalf of
Speaker 1: local groups like Rise Saint James, whose efforts we profiled
Speaker 1: in that season. You can tell the organizers in Louisiana
Speaker 1: are getting it done because suddenly the industry is organizing
Speaker 1: against them. Last year, some serious money joined the petrochemicals
Speaker 1: fight when Bloomberg Philanthropy is committed eighty five million dollars
Speaker 1: to the new Beyond petro Chemicals campaign. The campaign is
Speaker 1: focused on stopping the one hundred and twenty new petrochemical
Speaker 1: facilities proposed in Louisiana, Texas, and Pennsylvania. So suddenly a
Speaker 1: new advocacy group has emerged. It calls itself the Sustainability Council,
Speaker 1: and it's led by big oil companies and industry groups
Speaker 1: and backed by local officials and chambers of commerce. The
Speaker 1: sustainability this council is interested in is the petrochemical industry's sustainability,
Speaker 1: so it's working hard to try to discredit local organizers
Speaker 1: and paint the push against petrochemicals and Louisiana's cancer ali
Speaker 1: has an effort pushed by outsiders. I got a chance
Speaker 1: to speak with a couple of those organizers, Samirah Levine
Speaker 1: with Rye Saint James and Joe Banner of the Descendants
Speaker 1: Project last month about their ongoing work and what they
Speaker 1: think of this new challenge to it. That conversation's coming
Speaker 1: up right after this quick break.
Speaker 2: My name is Shamira Levine Ormyra Levine either way, and
Speaker 2: I am the executive assistant at Rhys Saint James. I've
Speaker 2: been working with ry since twenty twenty. But I was
Speaker 2: born and raised in Saint James, so I have first
Speaker 2: and experience in cancer ally, and I grew up with
Speaker 2: these industries. And to give you a little bit of
Speaker 2: background on Ridse Saint James. It is a faith based
Speaker 2: grassroots organization that was founded by my mom, Sharon Levian,
Speaker 2: that is fighting the expansion in the build of petro
Speaker 2: chemical facilities in Saint James Parish and in cancer rally
Speaker 2: in surrounded areas. The fifth district, where I'm from and
Speaker 2: where my mom still lives to this day, is overburdened
Speaker 2: with pollution from petro chemical facilities. In a ten mile radius.
Speaker 2: There are twelve industries. The industries have used a lot
Speaker 2: of financial persuasion to get the local leaders and politicians
Speaker 2: to side with them, so we are fighting local leadership
Speaker 2: as well. They refuse to represent us instead they're choosing
Speaker 2: to represent the industries. The whole purpose of fighting these
Speaker 2: industries is so that we can have clean air, clean water,
Speaker 2: and clean soil. We want to play for our children
Speaker 2: to be able to grow up and live in. And
Speaker 2: if you've never been to Saint James, I highly recommend
Speaker 2: it you come see it because it's over burden, but
Speaker 2: it's a sanctuary. It's beautiful and it's peaceful, and it's green,
Speaker 2: and it's lush, and it's a place that I look
Speaker 2: to retire at one day, and it's always going to
Speaker 2: be my home, and I want to go back to
Speaker 2: live there after we get all these industries out of
Speaker 2: Saint James.
Speaker 3: I talked to your mom a few years ago, and
Speaker 3: I was so struck to learn about just how rural
Speaker 3: and agricultural Saint James was before all of these industries
Speaker 3: came in, and how not that long ago.
Speaker 2: That was absolutely My grandfather was a farmer, so I
Speaker 2: had memories growing up going to his house and seeing
Speaker 2: the chickens eating eggs at the chicken coop so we
Speaker 2: can make breakfast, the cows, the goats, the bull that
Speaker 2: we were scared of, and also growing up a little
Speaker 2: girl eating the sugarcane that grew in the backyard, you know,
Speaker 2: just put peel that stalk all down and just sucking
Speaker 2: the sugar off of it.
Speaker 4: It was like heaven.
Speaker 2: I thought that I had the paradise of life in
Speaker 2: James with me, that I can just walk up to
Speaker 2: a tree and pull the fruit off, or walk in
Speaker 2: the backyard and eat a sugarcane. So it breaks my
Speaker 2: heart to see the condition that is in and it
Speaker 2: breaks my heart to know that the government and the
Speaker 2: leaders here know that this is going on, and they're
Speaker 2: choosing to allow it to continue.
Speaker 4: That's what breaks my heart the most.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was very powerful. Mayra.
Speaker 6: I love hearing you all talk about Saint James and
Speaker 6: my family. We were in Saint John the Baptist Parish,
Speaker 6: which is right on the border of Saint James Parish
Speaker 6: on the West Banks, and unfortunately we share a lot
Speaker 6: of the same history, the ruralness, the families and family names,
Speaker 6: and we also are part of cancer rally, so we
Speaker 6: struggle to fight against petro chemical as well. But Joe
Speaker 6: and I, how you got started was really our love
Speaker 6: for Louisiana, our history and our hair. Our grandparents would
Speaker 6: babysit us as our parents, who actually worked for industry,
Speaker 6: were at work. We would come home and we would
Speaker 6: listen to our grandparents who loved to tell stories about
Speaker 6: life along the river and their history and talking about
Speaker 6: their grandparents and the folklore and the folk tales.
Speaker 5: So we just had this real deep rootedness in the.
Speaker 6: Community through them, like they made us feel so connected
Speaker 6: to the area that we're at.
Speaker 5: It's in the country. I still live there by the way.
Speaker 6: In my same little neighborhood, our village that was started
Speaker 6: by my great grandfather. So about one hundred or so
Speaker 6: years ago, my great grandparents bought land and my great uncle,
Speaker 6: their son, also bought land when he was fourteen years old.
Speaker 6: So through those land purchases, my family created a village
Speaker 6: and we were all able to live together. So our
Speaker 6: days as children were just spent running through the neighborhood,
Speaker 6: through the cane fields and the open area with our
Speaker 6: cousins because we lived in like this sanctuary. Almost there's
Speaker 6: no such thing as immediate family. I like to say,
Speaker 6: like I never knew that term existed because our family
Speaker 6: was so big. You can never just consider your parents
Speaker 6: or your siblings as your immediate family because everyone is
Speaker 6: immediate to us. And it just offered us a way
Speaker 6: of support and sharing and nurturing and just also good
Speaker 6: times that you like.
Speaker 5: That's part of the American dream that we hear about.
Speaker 6: So having that lifestyle, having that connection made us really
Speaker 6: love our culture, and that led us into the tourism
Speaker 6: industry and tourism and our part of Louisiana is plantation tourism.
Speaker 6: So the best way to tap into our love of
Speaker 6: our area and our ancestry was through plantations, which is
Speaker 6: bittersweet that that's the way we have to access our
Speaker 6: history if we want to make a living through that,
Speaker 6: if we want to stay in that space.
Speaker 5: But anyway, Joy and I like we did that.
Speaker 6: We worked for Our first job that we had was
Speaker 6: at Laura Plantation. My ancestor descended from Laura Plantation, so
Speaker 6: we've started there. But it was the best African American
Speaker 6: history that I ever had was being on that plantation,
Speaker 6: Like I understood what it meant to be descended from
Speaker 6: the enslaves and their intelligence and their skills. So I
Speaker 6: say that as a good thing but also kind of
Speaker 6: a bad thing that I had to go there at
Speaker 6: eighteen years old to get that history, the history that
Speaker 6: has not been allowed to our people.
Speaker 5: It's been hard to access it because it's trauma, so.
Speaker 6: You almost have to be buffered a little bit to
Speaker 6: kind of get that history. And ironic that it comes
Speaker 6: from a plantation. When a history is done better, you know,
Speaker 6: I'm not going to say it's always done the right way,
Speaker 6: but when it's done better, it can be cathartic and
Speaker 6: it could be educational. So that led us on to
Speaker 6: the being in the space of tourism, and Joy later
Speaker 6: worked for Whitney Plantation as the director of Communications. I
Speaker 6: worked for a tourist commission in a River parish, so
Speaker 6: I was representing eleven different plantation halls in addition to
Speaker 6: other attractions. But being in that world, what it exposed
Speaker 6: me to was just how much Descendants were excluded from
Speaker 6: our own history and how we were not allowed to participate.
Speaker 6: We were not given the same access and space that
Speaker 6: these plantations were given, and when we tried to like
Speaker 6: infuse our own narratives, our truths, we were shot down
Speaker 6: because it wasn't making money.
Speaker 5: But in addition to tourism, what I saw was that tourism.
Speaker 6: And heavy industry and the petrochemical companies are in bed
Speaker 6: together in the River Parish in Cancer rally. It's not
Speaker 6: an advocate for us, it's not an advocate for descendants,
Speaker 6: for the past or the futures. And we were getting
Speaker 6: eaten up by the policies of both right, one that
Speaker 6: was not giving us the space to have participation and
Speaker 6: contribution to own history, and the other one, you know,
Speaker 6: killing us and trying to run us off of our land.
Speaker 6: So we started the Descendants Project to counter that it
Speaker 6: was really initially what it was first like, we want
Speaker 6: to be engaged in tourism, we want to have this
Speaker 6: und each other owned story, and we also saw it
Speaker 6: as a way that descendants can engage in a healthier industry.
Speaker 6: So if we're involved in this, we don't have to
Speaker 6: work in plants, we don't have to work in the
Speaker 6: industries that are killing us, and we can do something
Speaker 6: that speaks to our creativity, to our humanity and the
Speaker 6: humanities of our communities. So that was what we wanted
Speaker 6: to do, knowing that environmental justice is part of the
Speaker 6: overall well being the descendant community. But as soon as
Speaker 6: basically six months within us starting our organization and starting
Speaker 6: to formalize, we then had to face a green terminal
Speaker 6: from Greenfulle Louisiana that's proposing to locate on the former
Speaker 6: grounds of Formosa Plantation.
Speaker 5: So, because of zoning that happened thirty years.
Speaker 6: Ago to facilitate for Mosa, Formosa didn't come, thankfully, although
Speaker 6: I hate that they're trying to locate to Saint James still,
Speaker 6: but they didn't come. But the land stayed zoned for Formosa,
Speaker 6: so that allows any heavy industry to come in histor
Speaker 6: reason why we have to now stop a grain terminal
Speaker 6: that causes a lot of pollution and it would destroy
Speaker 6: our community.
Speaker 4: That's so interesting.
Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing that both of you, and I'm
Speaker 3: really curious to hear more about this quote unquote sustainability
Speaker 3: council that has just started. What were these folks kind
Speaker 3: of doing before and how have they organized into this
Speaker 3: council to try to work against the work that you're
Speaker 3: both doing.
Speaker 6: Well, what's infuriating to me is if you look at
Speaker 6: this council, there's a lot for example, the Tourist Commission
Speaker 6: that I work for. I don't know if the Tourist
Speaker 6: Commission will participate, but they are one of these people
Speaker 6: that's on the list, which is something that I've always.
Speaker 5: Known about these through lines.
Speaker 6: Right, So, now you have tourism that is fighting against
Speaker 6: the things that they're supposed to be protecting. But you know,
Speaker 6: the Paris presidents that ignore us, that refuse to meet
Speaker 6: with us, are now meeting and this other space they're
Speaker 6: talking about, you know, Mike Bloomberg and money from the
Speaker 6: outside quote unquote, which is ridiculous because if you think
Speaker 6: about Louisiana, the reason why Louisiana was made or was
Speaker 6: created was before for commerce, international commerce to make money
Speaker 6: from other areas of the world. So the fact that
Speaker 6: they have the same people that will brag about international
Speaker 6: or interstate correct commerce on a daily you know, are
Speaker 6: now saying that this is a bad thing because it's
Speaker 6: somebody that is going against their interest and they shouldn't
Speaker 6: have any interest. We are the locals. We do try
Speaker 6: to talk to them. They ignore us. They ignore us,
Speaker 6: so you can't we are hyperlocal and they refuse to
Speaker 6: talk to us. So now they get mad at us
Speaker 6: because other people listen. You know, when we gave them
Speaker 6: the opportunity to talk to us and they refuse, they
Speaker 6: now get mad because other people want to listen.
Speaker 4: I agree with that.
Speaker 2: Joe very Well said, I find the humorous almost that
Speaker 2: they do not want outside money coming in. However, these
Speaker 2: chemical plants are owned by foreign owners, so Formosta itself
Speaker 2: was is a Taiwanese project. So getting foreign funds is
Speaker 2: the name of the game when it comes to petro
Speaker 2: chemical industries. But I think that the sustainability console quote
Speaker 2: unquotes is worried about Bloomberg helping and shining light on
Speaker 2: this fight because of how successful his Beyond Coal campaign was.
Speaker 2: It reduced seventy percent of the coal emissions and shut
Speaker 2: down all of the facilities except for one, if I'm
Speaker 2: not mistaken. So you know, when Bloomberg gets involved in
Speaker 2: something that's starts to campaign for something, you know things
Speaker 2: are going to change, there's going to be success. You
Speaker 2: know that he has the power and the authority to
Speaker 2: do it. And so I was very honored whenever he
Speaker 2: launched the Beyond petro Chemicals campaign and had my mom
Speaker 2: come and reverende would attend, and I intended as well
Speaker 2: to watch this monumental moment. So of course, but listen,
Speaker 2: like Joe said, they wouldn't meet with us, so not
Speaker 2: as someone else is listening to us.
Speaker 4: Now that's a problem, So you know it is what
Speaker 4: it is. Amy.
Speaker 3: So have they not reached out to meet with any
Speaker 3: of the environmental groups directly.
Speaker 4: No, and they never do interesting.
Speaker 2: They meet with the parish council and the local leaders,
Speaker 2: and those local leaders do not represent the opinion.
Speaker 4: Of the people.
Speaker 2: And we have the fifth district councilman on tape saying
Speaker 2: that he knew that the community did not want Promosa
Speaker 2: to build there, but he's still voted yes for Promosa
Speaker 2: indirect conflict with.
Speaker 4: What the community wanted.
Speaker 6: But it shows you too when you have somebody like
Speaker 6: Mike Bloomberg and beyond Petro team come in and saying, Okay, well,
Speaker 6: you know here's money.
Speaker 5: They don't want that money, that money is not good
Speaker 5: or that money is the wrong type of money. So
Speaker 5: it's not only just about money. Would It shows you
Speaker 5: it's about power, which is why we are.
Speaker 6: You know what happens when you have a system that's
Speaker 6: so tied to slavery, it's still to this day it's
Speaker 6: still not enough of money.
Speaker 5: Is that they want control of us.
Speaker 6: And they hate the fact that we are showing them
Speaker 6: they do not have control of us, and neither does
Speaker 6: Mike Bloomberg. By the way, you know we are this
Speaker 6: is a person who wants to listen to us, and
Speaker 6: we listen to anybody if whether they donate a dollar
Speaker 6: or whether they donate eighty five million, We listen to
Speaker 6: everybody who listens to us. So you know, we love
Speaker 6: everybody who support us, and it should be no different
Speaker 6: with Mike Bloomberg.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the grassroots groups there in the Gulf had some
Speaker 3: big victories pre Bloomberg funding, So I can see why
Speaker 3: they might be worried that with additional funding that gets stronger.
Speaker 3: But it's not like the only reason that your work
Speaker 3: is winning is because of this new money. Have you
Speaker 3: seen anything prior to this, you know, these messaging slides
Speaker 3: and stuff being leaked. Did you notice anything coming out
Speaker 3: of this sustainability council where they were trying to push
Speaker 3: this messaging that like, oh, it's out of state elites
Speaker 3: that are trying to tell Louisiana what to do and
Speaker 3: that sort of thing.
Speaker 4: Yes, I did.
Speaker 2: We have an intern that's working for us and she's been,
Speaker 2: you know, researching and keeping an eye on it, and
Speaker 2: she came to.
Speaker 4: Let me know, oh, there's a bunch of.
Speaker 2: Different industries and people that represent industries that are saying
Speaker 2: they're forming a council to combat what we're doing. And
Speaker 2: I looked at her as she told me this, and
Speaker 2: she showed she pulled it up online and showed me
Speaker 2: some things they had put on social media, and I
Speaker 2: was like, this is so interesting, but it does not
Speaker 2: intimidate me whatsoever, because I feel like, this is my opinion.
Speaker 2: We want clean air, clean soil, clean water for our kids.
Speaker 2: To have a sustainable future. We want to be able
Speaker 2: to live and breathe without illnesses and disease. We want
Speaker 2: what any parent will work for their child, their grandchildren,
Speaker 2: their great grandchild. So even the people that's working in
Speaker 2: these industries, we can relate on that same premise that
Speaker 2: you want to keep your job most likely because you
Speaker 2: want to be able to provide and make sure your
Speaker 2: kids have sustainable future and healthy that's what you want.
Speaker 2: We want the same things. What we're saying is we're
Speaker 2: not against those industry workers. We're against the collution that's
Speaker 2: coming from the billionaires that own these facilities. That they
Speaker 2: own these facilities, they let it pollute and then they
Speaker 2: go on and leave and go back to their country
Speaker 2: or their city or their state. But most of the
Speaker 2: industry workers don't live in cancer rally, but the ones
Speaker 2: that do, you are facing the same problems that we have.
Speaker 2: The wind doesn't just blow at our house. The wind
Speaker 2: blows all around and you cannot escape that. So we
Speaker 2: are not in opposition with the people that work in
Speaker 2: those industries. And I see the Sustainability Council and I
Speaker 2: think that it's a joke because you're trying to deny
Speaker 2: that we only want to live a healthy life, and
Speaker 2: I know that the workers there want to live a
Speaker 2: healthy life as well. We're a lot more similar than
Speaker 2: we are different, So I'm not phased by this. To me,
Speaker 2: it tells me that they're worried and that they're scared. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and they're concerned about what we have going on. This
Speaker 2: fight was brewing up a long time before. My mom
Speaker 2: was lit up and decided to fight back. But now
Speaker 2: she has fought back, and now the power is with us.
Speaker 2: We have had victories. We have gotten fromosa's permits revoked
Speaker 2: by a judge in September of twenty twenty two. We
Speaker 2: have stopped South Louisiana Methanol from being able to build.
Speaker 2: We saw wandwaff for coming in, but only because we
Speaker 2: want to have a healthy environment for our kids.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 2: So if Bloomberg recognizes that and see the humanity in us,
Speaker 2: maybe they should try it well.
Speaker 3: And I think Joe you said this earlier too, that
Speaker 3: you know the out of state money pushing this industry
Speaker 3: in Cancer Alley has been there for a long time.
Speaker 3: I don't know, it seems like a weird talking point
Speaker 3: to try to push are you seeing them try to
Speaker 3: need this talking point in the media. Is it working
Speaker 3: at all? Or how's the public responding? Is anyone actually
Speaker 3: taking this council seriously?
Speaker 6: I will say that, And you know, I think with
Speaker 6: shamar made some really great points. But to add that,
Speaker 6: I think.
Speaker 5: It's really it's it's racist to feel that. So you
Speaker 5: think about the victories that you know that.
Speaker 6: That Shamira and her family and Sharon and Rise and
Speaker 6: you know, Sierra Club and and Earth Justice and all
Speaker 6: these groups have been working towards how much success they've had.
Speaker 6: But now this is Mike Bloomberg into the picture. Wow,
Speaker 6: we got to make a sustainability council.
Speaker 5: Right, we were winning before, Right, we have our case.
Speaker 6: We have a hearing tomorrow about the zwning on the land,
Speaker 6: you know, for the Grand Terminal. So all of the success, right,
Speaker 6: but only now they make a sustainability council when a
Speaker 6: white man enters the picture in that way. So I
Speaker 6: think that's such a racist trope if you ask me
Speaker 6: that now our success will be tied to just this
Speaker 6: one person now, and not to say that these campaigns,
Speaker 6: campaigns don't help, and that we need we don't need
Speaker 6: the help but let's get credit where credit is due
Speaker 6: to the many people who have fought through all to
Speaker 6: get to the space to buy time, right to buy time,
Speaker 6: so that we do have this other layer to come.
Speaker 6: But what I have noticed is that they're using sustainability
Speaker 6: as part of that title.
Speaker 5: They knew what they were doing.
Speaker 6: And also, like if you go to that websites, any
Speaker 6: of these companies websites, it looks like it's an environmental
Speaker 6: justice group.
Speaker 5: It's totally green. There's like flowers everywhere. They have the
Speaker 5: lead so buried to where you look on.
Speaker 6: The first two pages of their website and you really
Speaker 6: see more about the climate and the new processes that
Speaker 6: are making everything better. So they're very skilled at what
Speaker 6: they're doing when it comes to green washing.
Speaker 5: I will give them that, But we're not falling forward.
Speaker 6: And I think more people understand that this is a
Speaker 6: trojan horse and we know exactly what they want, which
Speaker 6: is they want to destroy us.
Speaker 5: Is there anything that you guys are.
Speaker 3: Planning to do to sort of like publicly address this.
Speaker 3: I know you're doing some media outreach. Is there any
Speaker 3: kind of campaign you're thinking of or you just kind
Speaker 3: of like, Eh, we don't need to because it's such
Speaker 3: a nonsense.
Speaker 2: Well, we're always in the works of campaign and advertising.
Speaker 2: I have a feeling that they're going to do you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of media, a lot of advertising, and so
Speaker 2: we're preparing for that. We're preparing to dismantle their argument.
Speaker 2: We're preparing to show the hypocrisy that they are, and
Speaker 2: we're preparing to expose the projective that they're doing. Even
Speaker 2: the name Sustainability Council is a joke. But as always,
Speaker 2: we know that we have to fight the politicians and
Speaker 2: the local leaders, and we know that we have to
Speaker 2: fight the people that's in the industries. But we also
Speaker 2: plan to connect with these workers. So let them know,
Speaker 2: you know, we're moms and dads and grandma's and grandpas
Speaker 2: that care about their kids and care about the environment
Speaker 2: and care the future.
Speaker 6: I would like to add, in attempts to protect our area,
Speaker 6: we have been named West Bank of Saint John in
Speaker 6: Baptist Parish, which includes Wilace, has been named to the
Speaker 6: National Trust of Historic Preservation's most eleven most Endangered Historic
Speaker 6: Site for the country. So being on that list, it's
Speaker 6: kind of like, yeah, it's good to be on the list,
Speaker 6: but it is scary, but out of the three hundred
Speaker 6: and fifty sites that have been placed on that list,
Speaker 6: only a handful have ever been lost. So the media
Speaker 6: attention and also like the historic preservation fight that we've
Speaker 6: been putting up, especially in regards to the Army Corps
Speaker 6: of Engineers and going through that process has been so helpful.
Speaker 4: And also we want to let them know.
Speaker 2: Like Joe said, with Bloomberg, we're so grateful for his help,
Speaker 2: but we've had victories before Bloomberg, so we're planning to
Speaker 2: continue to keep fighting. This is only going to add
Speaker 2: few to our fire. This only excites us and motivates
Speaker 2: us even more.
Speaker 1: That's it for this time, Thanks for listening, and we'll see.
Speaker 3: Time Drilled is an original Critical Frequency production. Our producer
Speaker 3: is Sarah Ventry. Sound design, mixing and mastering are by
Speaker 3: Peter Duff, who also wrote our original score. Our First
Speaker 3: Amendment Attorney is James Wheton at the First Amendment Project,
Speaker 3: and the show is recorded, written, and hosted by me
Speaker 3: Namy Westervelt