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Speaker 1: Body dots. But Joseph's gotten more. I wish I read more.

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Speaker 1: I read. I read quite a bit relative to things

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Speaker 1: that I teach, And at this point my life has

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Speaker 1: become rather wrote, because you know, the text generally say

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Speaker 1: the same things over and over again. I've got a

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Speaker 1: lot of it kind of buried in my brain. It's

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Speaker 1: amazing how it pops out every now and then I

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Speaker 1: can get recall all of a sudden, saying where did

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Speaker 1: that thought come from? I used to like to read

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Speaker 1: for pleasure, and I think, like a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite books, particularly as a little boy,

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Speaker 1: was The Count of Money Christo. I loved that book

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Speaker 1: of Alexander Dumont, and of course it was about a

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Speaker 1: guy that was wrongully accused, wrongfully accused, and just sent

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Speaker 1: into a torturous hell. He was able to push through

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Speaker 1: and eventually escape and of course exact his revenge on

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Speaker 1: those that had unjustly jailed him. I'm going to talk today, though,

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Speaker 1: about a case, and that comes from a location not

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Speaker 1: too far away from where I am right now here

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Speaker 1: in Alabama, a case that I believe, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: has not gotten the national attention that it deserves. I

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Speaker 1: hope that that's going to change, because the tale I'm

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Speaker 1: about to tell you is so horrific that you're going

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Speaker 1: to lose. I can almost guarantee it. Another bit of

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Speaker 1: faith in mankind coming to you from the beautiful campus

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Speaker 1: of Jacksonville State and University. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and

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Speaker 1: this is Bodybags. I used to like to read when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid, Dave. I would escape through reading.

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Speaker 1: I was just telling you I didn't watch television. I

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Speaker 1: really wasn't allowed to watch a lot during the week.

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Speaker 1: And I had a couple of things kept me entertained.

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Speaker 1: I had two sets of encyclopedias. I had actually three.

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Speaker 1: I had two sets of World Book. One was really

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Speaker 1: old and then I had a newer version, and then

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Speaker 1: I had a set of Funk and Wagnles dictionaries. I

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Speaker 1: remember they were white and the pictures are really tiny

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Speaker 1: in it. And I never had great eyes, but I

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Speaker 1: loved reading. My grandmother actually accrued each one of those

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Speaker 1: copies from Safeway grocery store, and I just read through them.

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Speaker 1: But I was one of these kids that would go

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Speaker 1: to the library and pull out a book, you know,

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Speaker 1: and take it home because I could escape you know,

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Speaker 1: I think like a lot of kids did back then.

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Speaker 1: I don't know the kids necessarily do that anymore. I

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Speaker 1: hope they do. You know, here on campus at Jacksonville State,

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Speaker 1: we've actually got one of the I think that we

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Speaker 1: actually have the largest and I'm talking about the physical plant,

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Speaker 1: the largest library on a university campus in the state

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Speaker 1: of Alabama. And the thing is gigantic, and it's got

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Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty three views of the mountains that

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Speaker 1: surround the campus. Very beautiful. You need to come over

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Speaker 1: some time and I'll take you up to the top

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Speaker 1: floor and give you a bird's eye view. It's a

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Speaker 1: gorgeous wind always blows really hard up there, one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite places. Though.

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Speaker 2: I'm sitting here thinking, Okay, where are you going with this,

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Speaker 2: because you're talking about a library in Alexander dumah, and

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking I remember in Shawshank Redemption when one of

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Speaker 2: the nmates was looking at it and go Alexander dumbass.

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Speaker 1: And exactly, Hey, yeah, he looks like he says, you're

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Speaker 1: going to like that. That's about a prison break. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love that line.

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Speaker 2: But in this particular show today, we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: to about a guy named Tony Mitchell who actually was

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Speaker 2: deprived of the basic necessities of life while he was

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Speaker 2: in jail. And that, Joseph, that drives me beyond the

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Speaker 2: pale of anything else we will talk about, because just

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Speaker 2: because somebody is in jail doesn't mean they are an animal.

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Speaker 2: And in his particular case, he was treated worse than

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Speaker 2: a rabbit. They were if they had if he had

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Speaker 2: had yellow hair, they would have shot him and said

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Speaker 2: it was old yeller. They would have said he was that.

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Speaker 2: You know, It's it's that bad of a story, and

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Speaker 2: it only gets worse the more I read about it,

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Speaker 2: the more I see about it, the more I think

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Speaker 2: about it, and it's like I just cannot, for the

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Speaker 2: life of me understand Joseph Scott Morgan. How in this

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Speaker 2: day and age where we spend time much of time,

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Speaker 2: especially on college campuses, talking about how we have to

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Speaker 2: respect everybody, even if they identify as a poodle dog clown,

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Speaker 2: you know that you have to treat them with dignity

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Speaker 2: and everything else. But we get a guy over here

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Speaker 2: who's having a mental health crisis, and instead of treating

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Speaker 2: the mental health crisis, we treat him at a level

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Speaker 2: that if we treated a dog like Tony Mitchell was treated.

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Speaker 2: We would go to jail.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, going back this kind of a

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Speaker 1: hand handed segue. You know, Tony's never going to have

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to walk into a library and sit back

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Speaker 1: and escape into a book. He's never going to know

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Speaker 1: that joy. He should have known. He should have known

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Speaker 1: the safety of a mental health facility, which, you know,

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Speaker 1: to our great shame in this nation, we've bought into

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Speaker 1: this idea that people that are placed into mental health

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Speaker 1: facilities may be committed as they used to be, that

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Speaker 1: it's some kind of torturous event that all mental patients

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Speaker 1: are treated this way. Now they're gone. You know, you

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Speaker 1: don't have those state run institutions like you used to.

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Speaker 1: I've got a This requires me to go back in

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Speaker 1: time a bit. I believe we may have spoken about

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Speaker 1: this again, you know, some time back, but just give

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Speaker 1: me a little rope. Period. When I first started out

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Speaker 1: and as a death investigator in Louisiana working for the Corner,

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Speaker 1: the corner actually had deputy corners. All the corners in

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Speaker 1: Louisiana or physicians, by the way, they have deputy corners there,

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Speaker 1: and they actually have on staff deputy corners that are psychiatrists,

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Speaker 1: and the corner in Louisiana is actually responsible for the

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Speaker 1: committal of mental patients. And so as an investigator, you've

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Speaker 1: got and you'd write what was referred to as an OPCs,

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Speaker 1: an order of protective custody, and family could come in

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Speaker 1: and generally the line is, and this plays into the story,

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Speaker 1: is that this individual is a danger to themselves and others.

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Speaker 1: And you could get a temporary OPC, which I think

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Speaker 1: was like a twenty four hour hold. They could do

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Speaker 1: a longer one for seventy two hours, and then the

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Speaker 1: corner with consultation could do a protracted, a much longer one.

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Speaker 1: Of course that would require judicial approval. But here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: When you have that ability to make that happen, and

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Speaker 1: you've got people that are trained to do this kind

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Speaker 1: of assessment, you don't have happened what happened to Tony

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Speaker 1: where he is essentially caged up like an animal and Dave.

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Speaker 1: These conditions that I got to tell you shock me

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Speaker 1: to my core. I've seen a lot of really grotesque

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Speaker 1: things over the years, and the way the way people

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Speaker 1: you know, in domestic situations treat partners, you know, For instance,

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Speaker 1: I've had a lady famously that was starved to death

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Speaker 1: by her own daughter, locked into a basement room and

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Speaker 1: had cancer that was never treated and one of the

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Speaker 1: most horrible things I've ever seen. But you know, that's

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Speaker 1: like a citizen that does that to another person. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about, dave an elected official, a sheriff's office who

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Speaker 1: runs the jails, and most of the time at a

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Speaker 1: local level, the sheriff is the person that is in

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Speaker 1: charge of the jail. So they are and just go

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Speaker 1: with me here, they are, in fact the custodian of

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Speaker 1: this person's safety. Okay, it's almost it's not quite the

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Speaker 1: same thing, but comparatively speaking, when an arrest is a

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Speaker 1: affected on somebody for whatever the reason, that official is

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Speaker 1: saying to the rest of the public that they serve,

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Speaker 1: we're going to care and provide for this individual. Now,

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Speaker 1: there might be people that are snickering out there and saying, well,

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Speaker 1: you've never done time in a prison, or you've never

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Speaker 1: done time in a local jail. I didn't get treated

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Speaker 1: very well there. Maybe so, and I'm sure that that's

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Speaker 1: accurate in many cases. However, in law or by law,

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Speaker 1: there's an expectation a constitutional expectation that you're going to

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Speaker 1: look after the rights, the welfare, the well being of

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Speaker 1: anybody that's in your custody. This poor man, Dave was

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Speaker 1: he was in a mental health crisis. As a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, if I'm not mistaken, please correct me if

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong. His family had requested an intervention on the

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Speaker 1: part of the police when this whole thing kind of

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Speaker 1: kicked off. You know, now all these months.

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Speaker 2: Ago, whenever they're something that happens with regard to police

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Speaker 2: being called for a welfare check, you know, you and

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Speaker 2: I have dealt with that on so many stories, and

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Speaker 2: oftentimes that well being check is because somebody is concerned

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Speaker 2: about a loved one, haven't heard from them, or maybe

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Speaker 2: they're not acting right. And in this particular case, Tony Mitchell,

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Speaker 2: he was not acting, not acting. He was in a

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Speaker 2: mental health crisis. He had painted himself black and had

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Speaker 2: really begun to say and do things that scared his family.

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Speaker 2: He was saying that he had a portal to Hell, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and a few other things that it was enough. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if you look, if you have a loved one that's

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Speaker 2: having a mental health crisis at this level, it's not

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Speaker 2: the first one they've had. You've seen other sides of

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Speaker 2: them before where it gets to this place and you

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Speaker 2: recognize that this is different. We need help, and what happened?

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Speaker 2: And police arrive on the scene and Tony Mitchell shot

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Speaker 2: at them. Now we don't know what actually transpired, other

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Speaker 2: than we know from the family and police why they

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Speaker 2: were called that he had painted himself and he was

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Speaker 2: acting out and saying some really scary things and family

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Speaker 2: was in fear for that he would hurt himself or others.

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Speaker 2: And when police got there, they say he shot at them.

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Speaker 2: I'm willing to go with that because of the you know,

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Speaker 2: nobody's contesting that fact, right, But Tony Mitchell in his

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Speaker 2: right mind wouldn't have shot at cops. So I think

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Speaker 2: that we started that point because what instead, That's what

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Speaker 2: a regular saying adult would think about. What would this

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Speaker 2: I'd be like, you know, is he mean, is this

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Speaker 2: a mean guy who's just play acting so he can

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Speaker 2: start shooting and killing people, or is this a guy

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Speaker 2: really having a mental health crisis and needs help? Because

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Speaker 2: the way they treated him was not as if he

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Speaker 2: was having a mental health crisis. They were treating him

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Speaker 2: like monkey boy. In time to have fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And here's here's one other bit to this, Dave.

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Speaker 1: This is over in Walker, Walker County, Alabama, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of to the northwest of of of Birmingham. If

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Speaker 1: you if people are familiar with Birmingham, which one of

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Speaker 1: the larger cities in Alabama. It's a rural county, beautiful

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Speaker 1: place by the way. And here's the thing about it.

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Speaker 1: If you're if you're working as a patrol officer, patrol deputy, sheriff, Okay,

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Speaker 1: and this guy has got a mental health history, there

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Speaker 1: is a probability, high probability that you may have run

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Speaker 1: calls out of this house before. And this is repeated

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Speaker 1: over and over again. And it doesn't have to be

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Speaker 1: a small jurisdiction. You can go to a large jurisdiction

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Speaker 1: and the beat officers in that area say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been to that address a bunch. You know, we've

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Speaker 1: got somebody that lives there that's involved in drugs, that

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Speaker 1: has a hard time staying sober. And they're not only

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Speaker 1: have a hard time staying sober, they're a mean drunk.

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Speaker 1: They've knocked around people in the family before. And then

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Speaker 1: you've got the people that literally get off of their meds, Dave.

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Speaker 1: And it's a tough job if you're a police officer

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Speaker 1: to have to go out there and kind of do

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Speaker 1: a quick assessment and understand that you know, maybe you

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Speaker 1: know you've been out there before. You've got a family.

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Speaker 1: It's already calling this some mental health crisis. They want

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Speaker 1: somebody to intervene, and yeah, he should not have fired

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Speaker 1: a weapon at the police. But once that situation, here's

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Speaker 1: the rub with all of this, Once that situation is interdicted, Okay,

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Speaker 1: once you have removed him from the weapon, the weapon

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Speaker 1: from him, you've got him under control, then it's at

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Speaker 1: that point in time you make a decision how he's

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Speaker 1: going to be handled. I don't know about you though, Dave,

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Speaker 1: but if I go out onto a scene or go

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Speaker 1: to a home and I've got some guy that has

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Speaker 1: taken paint and painted their face and they're saying that

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Speaker 1: right this way is a portal to hell, and they're

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Speaker 1: acting like they're seeing it. Okay, I'm going to know

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Speaker 1: that this person is not a gang leader, Okay, that

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Speaker 1: they're not out there, that they haven't just robbed a bank,

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Speaker 1: they haven't done anything that would indicate that they're in

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Speaker 1: their right mind all right, as nefarious is robbing a

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Speaker 1: bank would be, you still have control over what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: Once that danger is resolved, the problem arises. And this

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Speaker 1: is where this really takes a nasty turn, is that,

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, these police officers and the jail staff

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Speaker 1: decided to take matters into their on hand. And Tony

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Speaker 1: thought he was seeing a portal to hell when he

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Speaker 1: arrived at that county jail, he was introduced to a

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Speaker 1: true doorway to eighties, brother David. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you remember this case. This is a case from twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two, and this happened in Atlanta, in Fulton County, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: at the Fulton County Jail, otherwise known infamously as the

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Speaker 1: as the Rice Street Jail. I've had to go there

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Speaker 1: many times to work cases when I was with the

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Speaker 1: M's Office, and it is to say the very minimum here.

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Speaker 1: It ain't a place that you want to go and

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Speaker 1: hang out. All right, it's bad. But this case involved

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Speaker 1: a gentleman named Leshawn Thompson. When they came across he

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Speaker 1: was dead in to sell and I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you remember this. He was eaten by bed bugs. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember that case.

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Speaker 2: I do, just because it is one of those things

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Speaker 2: that stands out in my mind of all the stories

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Speaker 2: I've heard you tell that one goes beyond anything I

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Speaker 2: can think of or what happens to an inmate. How

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Speaker 2: do you get to that point? How does that happen?

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Speaker 2: I still don't have an I don't have an understanding

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Speaker 2: of how that could happen.

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Speaker 1: I don't either. You know, when you get to the

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Speaker 1: point with you know, with you know, with mister Thompson's case,

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Speaker 1: that is neglect that you can't even begin to imagine.

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Speaker 1: And that Dave, you know, that's not some rural, rural

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Speaker 1: location we're talking about. This is the primary lock up

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Speaker 1: at a state level in a county. All right, Like,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to go and you're going to be

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Speaker 1: sent to city jail in Atlanta or any of the

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Speaker 1: other municipal municipalities there in Fulton County, many times they're

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Speaker 1: sent to the Ryce Street Jail to be held. So

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Speaker 1: you're thinking that the corrections officers that are there are

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Speaker 1: going to be top flight. You know, they're going to

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Speaker 1: be well trained, They're going to know what to do.

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Speaker 1: They have to manage a huge population. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that that's an excuse relative to uh, to them neglecting

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Speaker 1: that fellow. But how much more so when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about Walker County in Alabama. The population, it ain't Fulton County, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: I'll put it to It's not Jefferson County, Alabama, the

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Speaker 1: home of Birmingham. It's just it's not a huge place.

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Speaker 1: So for what happened with Tony, I begin to think

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Speaker 1: about this, the staff is aware that he is there.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's not like there's you know, oh, we

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Speaker 1: forgot about him because you know that was actually one

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Speaker 1: of the things with mister Thompson's case that was so

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Speaker 1: striking is that they said, yeah, you know, you kind

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Speaker 1: of got lost in the shuffle. Wow, And I got

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Speaker 1: to tell you out of it. Yeah. I gotta urge

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Speaker 1: anybody that hasn't seen the images from Lashawn Thompson's case,

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Speaker 1: I beg you to go check them out. And it

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Speaker 1: is one of the most disgusting things. It's one of

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Speaker 1: the most disgusting things you're ever going to see that

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Speaker 1: a fellow human beings objected to that, and David got

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Speaker 1: to tell you Tony's case in a much shorter period

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Speaker 1: of time, rivals. Thompson's case, at least in my mount.

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Speaker 2: Well, the sad reality here is that his family called

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Speaker 2: to get help. They couldn't deal with him. He was

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Speaker 2: going to be he was a danger to himself and others,

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Speaker 2: and they called for help, and what they got in

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Speaker 2: return was again Tony acting out. But they were able

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Speaker 2: to police were able to get him under control enough

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Speaker 2: that nobody else was shot. You know, he allegedly shot

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Speaker 2: at them. I'm going to say allegedly, because you know,

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Speaker 2: it's not like he pulled the gun and he just

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Speaker 2: kept shooting and they over they overcame him. They were

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Speaker 2: able to get him in custody and take him to jail.

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Speaker 2: My question is why was he not evaluated at the

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Speaker 2: jail where they could determine this guy doesn't need to

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Speaker 2: be in jail. He needs to be in a mental

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Speaker 2: health facility as soon as we can get him past

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Speaker 2: whatever's going on now. But we need a doctor in

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Speaker 2: here right away. I mean, I don't know what you

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Speaker 2: use to get somebody to calm down in an agitated state,

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Speaker 2: but I know we have medication for these things, just

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Speaker 2: like we have antibiotics to treat the you know, different

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Speaker 2: cold things come up. But in this yeah, I mean

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Speaker 2: he was taken to jail for a mental health crisis show.

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Speaker 1: Right, and you know, and here's here's the real horror

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Speaker 1: show here, Dave, is that it's not like you got

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Speaker 1: a couple of guys in you know, in tan shirts

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Speaker 1: and brown pants with you know, with badges on their

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Speaker 1: chests that are corrections officers that are there all by

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Speaker 1: their lonesome. It got medical staff as well, and medical

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Speaker 1: staff they in fact should be checking these guys on

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Speaker 1: a daily basis. And if if he's in there, if

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Speaker 1: he's in the jail, uh, that's the first stop that

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Speaker 1: you're going to make when you arrive. And if you've

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Speaker 1: got a subject that's in highly agitated state, you're right,

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Speaker 1: there's any number of meds that could be applied. First off,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that that you want to do

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Speaker 1: is ascertain what kind of mental history does he have?

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Speaker 1: And also was he currently on medication? Was he being

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Speaker 1: seen by a therapist or a psychiatrist? Big difference here, okay?

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Speaker 1: And did he have meds that were available to him

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Speaker 1: and how long has it been since he's taken them?

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Speaker 1: So you have to gather that information very very quickly.

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Speaker 1: And have that at your fingertips and then turn that

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Speaker 1: over the medical staff because the staff at the jail

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Speaker 1: is not equipped to be able to assess what, you know,

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Speaker 1: his status is physically and how he's reacting mentally and

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Speaker 1: all these sorts of things. Because you know somebody that's

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Speaker 1: trained in medicine and mental health, you can say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is what this guy needs. All right, we need

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Speaker 1: to give him a bullet of drugs like push, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, push some adavan, which adavan is going to

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Speaker 1: kind of calm him down. That's just for starters, you know,

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Speaker 1: just to get him calmed down, manageable. It'll put him

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Speaker 1: in more of a controllable state. Heart rate's going to

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Speaker 1: decree to a healthy level. I'm not saying that he

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Speaker 1: wouldn't still be hallucinating, because there's something deeper going on

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Speaker 1: here than that, but just to get him under control.

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Speaker 1: But Dave, that's that's not what they did with Tony.

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Speaker 1: That's not what they did. And please lay this out

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Speaker 1: to our audience, because I got to tell you, for

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Speaker 1: the longest time, I have thought that Tony had literally

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Speaker 1: been placed and I think a lot of general public

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Speaker 1: that had been placed into a walk in freezer. But

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Speaker 1: that's not the case. That's not the case in Tony.

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Speaker 2: There's a reason, there's a reason for the belief in that. Okay,

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Speaker 2: when Tony was brought to jail on January twelfth, twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three, he arrives at the jail painted up and

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Speaker 2: everything else, as we mentioned, and they put him in

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Speaker 2: a jail cell. And this jail cell is bare bones.

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Speaker 2: There is no toilet, no sink, no bed. It's a

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Speaker 2: brick wall and in the cement floor with a drain

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Speaker 2: in the bottom of the floor so it can be

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Speaker 2: hosed out. There is no running water in this cell.

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Speaker 2: You're only going to be in this cell for a

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Speaker 2: brief period of time while they're processing and determining where

364
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Speaker 2: you need to go, or you need to get control

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Speaker 2: of yourself, or any number of things. That's why there's

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Speaker 2: a drain, because if you're in there as a drunken

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Speaker 2: you throw up, you know it, hose it out, any

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Speaker 2: kind of thing like that. But it's not made. It's

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Speaker 2: not a cell that you put somebody in to stay

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Speaker 2: in for any length of time. Joe, A couple hours

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Speaker 2: is the max in this cell. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: the nickname for cell BK five. That's the number, that's

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Speaker 2: the designation. It is cell BK five. It's nickname is

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Speaker 2: the freezer because this cell is so cold, because it

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Speaker 2: does have a cement floor, it does have brick and

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Speaker 2: nothing else. There is no bed that's raised off the floor.

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Speaker 2: You sleep on the cement floor that you stand on

378
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Speaker 2: and sit on, and everything else on. And Tony was

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Speaker 2: put in this room. Joseph Scott Morgan that even during

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Speaker 2: spring and fall when the weather's getting chilly, it's cold

381
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Speaker 2: in that room. And he's there in January, in the

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Speaker 2: coldest room they could find, and they put him in there,

383
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Speaker 2: and placing him in cell BK five. He wasn't in

384
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Speaker 2: there just for booking purposes. He wasn't in there just

385
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Speaker 2: for a couple of hours. This is the cell where

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Speaker 2: a man who had had a mental health crisis was

387
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Speaker 2: brought in and put on display. He was stripped of

388
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Speaker 2: all of his clothing and put into this jail cell,

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Speaker 2: then nicknamed the freezer. Naked as a day, was born,

390
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Speaker 2: without a sheet, without a cover, without a toilet, without

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Speaker 2: a sink, couldn't clean himself or anything, couldn't do it,

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Speaker 2: And he was left in that cell Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 2: not for a couple hours, but for a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: The fact that he survived that long is amazing. And

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Speaker 1: my understanding, Dave, is that this cell has previously been

396
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Speaker 1: identified as a cell that you would put someone in

397
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Speaker 1: that is at risk of doing self harm. Okay, And

398
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Speaker 1: but we're talking again, going back to Dumal's book.

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Speaker 2: You know.

400
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Speaker 1: Count of Monte Cristo, you talk about bare bones. You know,

401
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Speaker 1: even the count had someplace to sleep. We're talking about

402
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Speaker 1: an environment that is so diminished and so absent of

403
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Speaker 1: any kind of comfort whatsoever. My thought is is that

404
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Speaker 1: I know, because we've talked about this before, are there

405
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Speaker 1: cases out there?

406
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Speaker 2: You've heard of.

407
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Speaker 1: The the anti suicide suits are called turtle suits that

408
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Speaker 1: you can place people in where you know they can't.

409
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Speaker 1: They will keep them warm and they're kind of cushioned

410
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: and it but it prevents you from doing anything harmful

411
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Speaker 1: to yourself. And of course we've got the old the

412
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Speaker 1: old images from years and years ago, padded cells that

413
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Speaker 1: are you know that they had in psych units. And

414
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Speaker 1: I've actually seen one of those before, not not as patient,

415
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: although there were many times I felt like I need

416
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 1: to be in one. But to say that this was

417
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Speaker 1: an unsafe environment for him is you know, first off,

418
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Speaker 1: if he is in a mental health crisis and he's

419
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Speaker 1: in a manic state where he is actually seeing visions,

420
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Speaker 1: because at some point in time, and this goes to

421
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Speaker 1: the diagnosis I'm going to tell you about. In just

422
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Speaker 1: a second, he's gone from seeing portals to Hell to

423
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Speaker 1: now he's seeing demons, Dave, and he's screaming out. But

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Speaker 1: you know, you know what the response was from the

425
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Speaker 1: correctional staff. The correctional staff, those that were in the

426
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: jail actually said, well, that's what happens when you shoot

427
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Speaker 1: a cop. Yep, not shoot a cop, but shoot at

428
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Speaker 1: a cop. Okay, So how much, okay, how many pounds

429
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: of flesh are you looking to exact off of Tony?

430
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: What's what's going to satiate your your desire here to

431
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: do harm to this man? What is it that's going

432
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: to quell your appetite? It's going to quell your appetite

433
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: for revenge or whatever it is for him. You know

434
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: when you look at this creature that therefore the Grace

435
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: Guy could go any of us. You know, you never

436
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 1: know how close any of us are to a break

437
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: at any point in time in your life. You say,

438
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: that couldn't be me. Yeah, it could be you. It

439
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: could be you. It's just like it could be you

440
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: that gets pulled over one night on a dark road

441
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: by a cop and you weren't doing anything wrong, but

442
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: you know you took a wrong turn, you said the

443
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: wrong thing. Well, you know what if somebody does have

444
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: a problem with drugs, or they've got some kind of

445
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: crisis in their life where their life where they've lost

446
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: someone that they love, or their marriage is broken or

447
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: something like that, you never know what you're going to encounter.

448
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: That's what makes domestic events so dynamic and dangerous. But

449
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: once that threat is gone, it's up for the courts

450
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: to decide, you know, what kind of punishment should be

451
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: exacted on this man. And now that opportunity's gone, it's

452
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: absolutely gone. And you know he was he was placed

453
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: in a position, Dave, and I love the fact that you,

454
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: you know, you drew the drew the comparison to an animal,

455
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: you know, Kim and I, we we adopt out of

456
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: kill shelters, right, I've been into I've been into shelters, Dave,

457
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: where animals are treated fairly. Well, you know, they're given

458
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: a warm place to stay, they're not in the elements,

459
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: they're fed regularly, and this is not even an environment

460
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: They're a prisoner of war camps where people are treated

461
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: better than this. And then I'm thinking one of the

462
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: things that I'm thinking about is that since it is

463
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: referred to as a freezer, and by virtue of naming it,

464
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: that the staff is aware of what the environmental conditions

465
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: are like. This is not something that just randomly fell

466
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: from the heavens and landed at their feet. Oh yeah, well,

467
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: you know, let's call it the freezer. That sounds like

468
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: an excellent No, they knew, they knew that the thing

469
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: actually does feel like a refrigerated area. They knew that

470
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: the individuals that would be in there would be miserable.

471
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: And here's the other thing, Dave. This man was not

472
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: just unclothed, he was wet. He was wet. What did

473
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: you say, just a minute ago, there was a drain

474
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: in the center of the floor. You don't have a toilet.

475
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 2: No, there's no toilet, there's no running water. And in

476
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 2: that cell, as I mentioned it was, it was the

477
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: drunk tank. Okay, you guys, come in late on Friday,

478
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: Saturday night. You got to put him someplace you don't

479
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: want to put him in general, you know, with the

480
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: Walker County jail's small. You've got to separate the guy

481
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: and you gonna puke, he's gonna bee, he's gonna do whatever.

482
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: So he put him in that cell. You don't worry

483
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: about him, and you get him out a couple hours later,

484
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 2: hosed down putting somebody else. Well, that's where they put him, Joe,

485
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: and they didn't move him, but he was naked. They

486
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: stripped him naked, that's first of all. And he is

487
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 2: wet from urine fece, he's all over him. It's just

488
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 2: he's not in his right mind as it is when

489
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 2: he comes in there. Think about how much worse it God,

490
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: As you mentioned, he was talking about portals, hell and

491
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: demons and everything else. And now he's thrown into a

492
00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: cement box with no way out, no water, know nothing,

493
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: and is tortured in those conditions. That's all I can think.

494
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: What kind of conditions are worse than what he was

495
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 2: placed in? Think about it. Even the man had no

496
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: clothing to even get a little bit warm. It was January.

497
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: They knew it was colder in there than anyplace else.

498
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: And by the way, the floor where his bare feet

499
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: were is colder than the walls, and that's where he

500
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: had to sleep. So the frustrating thing for me about this,

501
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, is we live in the greatest nation

502
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: on the face of this earth, and we have human

503
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: beings that we sit across from in church that would

504
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: do this to another human being, and they're paid to

505
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: do this. They're paid to take care of them. Again, Joe,

506
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 2: I get it. Somebody comes in there that's a child rapist,

507
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: a murderer, just you know, I get having harsh feelings

508
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: towards them, but you don't act on it because that's

509
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 2: not your job. But here's a guy coming in in

510
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: a mental health crisis. His family called for help, and

511
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: this is the help you decided to give him. This

512
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 2: is help. Where where is this hell?

513
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: You know? And it's not like they couldn't get access

514
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: to a blanket. I bet, I bet you could have.

515
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: You could have thrown a rock. You could have thrown

516
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: a rock to any number of locations adjacent to the

517
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: Walker County Jail. It just walked up to somebody's house

518
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,479
Speaker 1: and say, hey, you got We got an Inmato here

519
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: that's nude, he's wet. You have a blanket, we can have,

520
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: you know, And I know that the place that's got blankets.

521
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: I know that they serve food. I know that they

522
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: have bathing facilities, I know that they have toilets. But

523
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: this is something I also know. I know that they

524
00:32:54,280 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: had a space that they kept this man in that

525
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: even in light of the work that Alexander DuMond did

526
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: on the account of Monte Cristo, it would probably make

527
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: even him blush. We talk a lot about, you know,

528
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: in forensics, particularly my field and medical legal death investigation,

529
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: we talk about manner of death, we talk about cause

530
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: of death, we talk about mechanism of death. But you know,

531
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: there is a very specific cause of death in Tony's

532
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: case that is arguably one of the most horrific things

533
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: that I think that any of us could be subjected to.

534
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: And it's not merciful in any way. Dave something that

535
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: that most people could not even begin to fathom. I

536
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: don't know that even a horror rider could come up

537
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: with it in their mind and feel good about it,

538
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: necessarily because it is slow and languishing.

539
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 2: I was camping one time with my brother and boy

540
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,280
Speaker 2: Scouts Joe, and a freak snowstorm hit in the middle

541
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 2: of the night in early spring. We were prepared because

542
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: we were boy Scouts, but we were not prepared for

543
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: the temperature to drop as dramatically as it did and

544
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 2: stay dramatically low. And I got sick. My body temperature

545
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: dropped and my brother and I wasn't the only one.

546
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: My brother had to build a fire outside of our

547
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: tent right by the opening and open it and try

548
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: to get the hot just anything to get heat in there,

549
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 2: because we were snowed in and there was nothing else

550
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 2: you could do except try to get warm. And I

551
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: remember how sick I felt. I couldn't get you know,

552
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 2: I was freezing, and I could feel the warmth from

553
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: the heat out of the fire, but I couldn't get warm. No,

554
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 2: And I can't imagine what he must Tony Mitchell was

555
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 2: going through at thirty three, thirty four years old in

556
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 2: a jail cell, not in his right mind, and nothing

557
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: he does he can't get warm. How what is happening

558
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 2: to his body as it reacts to the environment of

559
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 2: an all cement jail cell where the only fluid is

560
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: your own body fluid, where you've got feces and everything

561
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: smeared all over your body and your body temperature is dropping.

562
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 2: How are you feeling physically and what's going on? Are

563
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: you going to have are you gonna have hallucinations just

564
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 2: from the cold?

565
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: Do you remember you? And thanks for telling a story

566
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: about your brother, you guys in the snowstorm, because I

567
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: bet you right now, I can, I can, I don't

568
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: know recreate a memory in your brain that sounds like

569
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: it is very traumatic at that moment in Tom, what's.

570
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 2: Worse is he got sick taking care of me, and

571
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 2: I then got helthy enough and had to turn around

572
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 2: and help him. But three days like that, back in

573
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: the seventies, before cell phones, before you had ways, and

574
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 2: so none of our families knew what we were. They

575
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 2: didn't know what had happened to us. We went out

576
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 2: on a boy scout overnight camp out and three days

577
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,919
Speaker 2: later we finally showed back up. News crews were there.

578
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 2: It was crazy.

579
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: So, yeah, you do you remember shivering?

580
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: Oh, buddy, I remember, I thought my teeth were going

581
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 2: to break.

582
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't say that.

583
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: I think my brother told me to bite on a

584
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: piece of wood because yeah, you did.

585
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: But you remember that. I'm sure that everybody in the

586
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: sound of my voice can can think back to a

587
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: moment in tom when you have been cold. But there's,

588
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: you know, even an extreme like you were in with

589
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: your brother, there was some relief that that you that

590
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: you got eventually, and it took a protracted period of time.

591
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: You guys had to build a fire. Tony didn't have

592
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: that advantage. There was There wasn't even furniture to break up,

593
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 1: let alone matches, all right, that he could have started

594
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: anything with just to warm himself for a moment. There

595
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: was no layering that was that could have occurred you

596
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: You couldn't have thrown them. And I submit to you, Dave,

597
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: that even if he had multiple layers, by the time

598
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: it got to the terminal event with him, even if

599
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: he had had layers of blankets, I don't know that

600
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: he could have gotten his body temperature up enough. But

601
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: that shivering is a reaction that occurs within your brain.

602
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: There's a tiny little air in your brain that's referred

603
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 1: to as the hypothalmis, and the hypothalmis controls it actually

604
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: controls body temp And there are a lot of these stories.

605
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: Some of them are anecdotal, But there are these stories

606
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 1: that are out there where people's bodies will hit these

607
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: super high temps and they survive them, you know, they floating.

608
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 1: Those stories arise every now in the news and they'll

609
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: attribute that to some problem with the hypothalmis. But the

610
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: hypothalmis itself actually controls your body temperature, all right, and

611
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: it sends out signals. And one of the first indications

612
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: you get when you're talking about hype o thermion we're

613
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: not talking about hyper which is means overheating, is the

614
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: shivering that goes on. It's your body's way to kind

615
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: of generate heat. You know, you're kind of shaking there,

616
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: you know, and it's miserable. You're already miserable and you

617
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: can't control your shaking. The body is trying to help

618
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: you survive, right. It wants to eventually warm up, but

619
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: it's just doing its part at that point in time, Dave,

620
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: When we look at this timeline that Tony was subjected to,

621
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: how long had he been shivering? I mean, just think

622
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: about that just for a moment. Just think about it.

623
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: If you live in a location where is cold outside

624
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: and you are deprived of any kind of cover for instance,

625
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: but yet you can go back inside. Just imagine what

626
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: it would be like to be frozen, not literally, but

627
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: to be in that moment where you can't there's no

628
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: door you can knock on, there's no window you can

629
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: crawl out of. You can't even seep underneath the door

630
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: the bottom of the door to get out to get help.

631
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: There's nowhere to get relief. So you walk around nude

632
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: and you're constantly shaking. You're constantly shaking, and oh, by

633
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 1: the way, there's something going on in your brain where

634
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: you're being tormented by demons, right, because you perceive that

635
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: there are demons about and you're shouting about it to

636
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: the rest of the staff. Oh, and the only thing

637
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: that they say to you, this is what happens when

638
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: you shoot a cop. So you know, with Tony, his

639
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: cause of death is something we don't get a lot

640
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:55,959
Speaker 1: in the South. It's hypothermia is what led to his death.

641
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: So just so you know, you had mentioned rightly, so

642
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: Dave that with with hypothermia, you know what, what can

643
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 1: you have that kind of occurs relative that the first

644
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: thing's going to present will be the shivering. You'll react,

645
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: your breathing is going to slow, slow, quite a bit.

646
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: Here's another thing, and this is this kind of piles

647
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: on relative to whatever his mental distress as he's having,

648
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: you're going to have memory issues as well. So you'll

649
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: come across people that are really cold and they're disoriented.

650
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: I think I don't know this for a fact. I'm

651
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,879
Speaker 1: not a neurologist, but I think that probably a lot

652
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: of the brain power that you might have otherwise relative

653
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: to in a normal set of circumstances is kind of

654
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: being shunted towards just surviving, right, So you don't you don't.

655
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 1: You can be disoriented, So you can come across somebody

656
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 1: that I've heard your physicians talk about this, that they'll

657
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: have people that'll come in off the street, particularly homeless

658
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: people that might not necessarily be inebriated, but be appearing

659
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: as if they're inebriated in the wintertime because they're so disoriented.

660
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 1: They're not oriented to time and space and all these

661
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: sorts of things. That's kind of a at the low end.

662
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: And then as you you know, kind of progress through this,

663
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: you have no energy hardly at all, because your body

664
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: is working so hard just to stay alive. There's lethargy

665
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: and which is very dangerous because if you don't stay moving,

666
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: you're not going to create that core body temperature that's

667
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: you know, that's going to heat you up and keep

668
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: you keep you going. Your pulse weakens, your you're breathing

669
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 1: actually becomes very faint. You lose all of the color

670
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: in your skin. Now, if you're outdoors with hypothermia, one

671
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: of the things that you'll see is your skin. And

672
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: this goes to uh goes to your skin literally, you know, burning,

673
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: almost like a freezer burn. Your skin will turn red.

674
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: I've come across people that again back to the homeless

675
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: that die as a result of hypothermia on the streets,

676
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: and you'll see this kind of reddish or pink hue

677
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: to their skin. Again, the confusion continues to, you know,

678
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: kind of increase until finally, at some point in time,

679
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: you're going to stop shivering. And that's a sign, that's

680
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: a sign that your body is going into your going

681
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: into multi organ failure. At this moment in tom your

682
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 1: lungs are going to become heavily congested and eventually you're

683
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: going to sleep slip into a coma. And I was

684
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: just looking at an image of Tony and he is

685
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: literally being not cradled. But he's in between two deputy

686
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: sheriffs and Dave, they're adjacent to a desk in this image.

687
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: And guess what, but they're fully clothed, they have their

688
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: uniforms on. Their hair is all neat, you know, mustaches

689
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: are trimmed or bears are trimmed. You can see it.

690
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 1: They look sharp, they look squared away. But old Tony,

691
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: he's laying there on the floor, Dave, He's laying there

692
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: on the floor, nicked as a jaybird, filthy, his hair

693
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 1: is unkempt. I've seen images of Tony in life, and

694
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, when you see him, he

695
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: looks like squared away young men. You know he's got

696
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: He doesn't look like I don't know what's the old

697
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: term my grandmother, the wild man of body, if you've

698
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: ever heard that term. He didn't look that way in life.

699
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: So now you've got a guy that is so disheveled looking.

700
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: He looks like a wild animal. And I got to

701
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: tell you, I submit to you that because he was

702
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: treated like a wild animal. That's probably the reason he

703
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: looked that way. He's unbathed, he's unclothed, he looks thin

704
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 1: as a rail. It looks malnerveished, which again, if you're

705
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: not receiving proper nutrition in a really cold environment, your

706
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: body you can't you don't have the fuel, you know,

707
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: to continue on. And it is you know, I look

708
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: at this and I think, my lord, it would have

709
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: been more merciful if his life had ended suddenly, you know,

710
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: like on that night. This this goes over into the

711
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: area now where this is a protracted torture as far

712
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, and particularly when you've got multiple eyes

713
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: on this thing that's happened before their eyes.

714
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, can he be Could Tony be conscious of the

715
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 2: fact that the morning of January twenty sixth, that's the

716
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: day a nurse repeatedly says, you have got to take

717
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: him to the hospital. This guy is in bad shape.

718
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: If you don't take him to the hospital right now,

719
00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 2: he could die. And they still wa for more than

720
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: three hours after the nurse begged them. Now, all during

721
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 2: the time he's been in there, which is over a week,

722
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 2: they were coming by to look at him. They were spectating,

723
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 2: to laugh at him because he was howling at the moon,

724
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 2: he was doing whatever. And on top of that, think

725
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,919
Speaker 2: about it. He's shivering, he's shaking his body, his core

726
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 2: body temperature is dropping, he's fighting for every breath. And

727
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 2: now this nurse says, please for the love. Yeah, I'm thinking,

728
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 2: what kind of human beings can put another human being

729
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 2: through this? And still when a nurse is begging, you

730
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 2: make him wait three hours And by the time they

731
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: finally did, they threw him and they didn't call an ambulance. Joe.

732
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 2: They threw him in the back of a patrol car

733
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: and by the time he arrived at the hospital, his

734
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: internal body temperature was said to be seventy two degrees

735
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 2: What does that mean to you, Joseph Scott Morgan.

736
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: When you get to that level, Davy, anytime you drop

737
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: below about I think the number I'm trying to reflect

738
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 1: right now, I think the number is like eighty six

739
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 1: to eighty five. You slip below that and you're already

740
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: in the lethal range. At that point, your body cannot

741
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: function any longer. That's why this is such a torturous death,

742
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: I don't I think the thing that really amazes me

743
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: about this is how was he able to survive as

744
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 1: long as he did. Was he that resilient? I mean,

745
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: did he have that ability. I was talking to my

746
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: kids the other day about in school. I was talking

747
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: to him about starvation. And you know, with people that

748
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: are really heavy, they have like a big insulating layer

749
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 1: of fat over their body. Yet you can have hypothermia

750
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: and they will get you know, essentially wind burned and

751
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: those sorts of things. But it's much different different to

752
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: get it's much more difficult to get their core body

753
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: temperature down if you're insulated. Like this. When you see

754
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: Tony and this image that I'm talking about where he's

755
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 1: laying on the floor in this office, Dave, he's rail thin.

756
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: He doesn't have like you know we talk about we

757
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,399
Speaker 1: talk about what's called SubQ fat. Okay, you've got SubQ fat,

758
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: which is that layer of fat that's just beneath the

759
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: dermis and the fascia in that layer of skin. Like

760
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: if you get a nurses will talk about or the

761
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: doctor will say, give him a SubQ injection, which means

762
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: when they say SubQ that means you're going to inject

763
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: into the subc fat the needl is long enough to

764
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: get in there. And then for people that really overweight,

765
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 1: there's another layer of fat that exists beneath that SubQ fat, Dave,

766
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,879
Speaker 1: when you see this guy, he's rail thin, he has

767
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: no insulation whatsoever. I don't see how he survived as

768
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: long as he did. I think my question would be,

769
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: was he what was his love of cognition? Like, you know,

770
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 1: because that's the that's the horror of all of this.

771
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: You know, you're sitting here and you're thinking, well, did

772
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: he have an awareness that he was dying? You you

773
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: know that he's having hallucinations? And how do you separate

774
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 1: the hallucinations that he was having that night from the

775
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: hallucinations that veriwell, might come about as a result of hypothermia.

776
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: How do you separate this too. I don't know that

777
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: there's I don't know that there's a psychiatrist that's brilliant

778
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: enough to kind of, you know, suss all of that out.

779
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that there would be. You look at

780
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: him and you think, well, how, how in the world

781
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: could could they have done this to this man? I

782
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 1: think though, now, Dave, I don't know, there's no satisfaction

783
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,800
Speaker 1: in this. But they've got people that have actually pled

784
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: guilty in this case, have they not, David?

785
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,879
Speaker 2: There have been a total of twenty five indictments and

786
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: they're breaking down. Yeah, because it wasn't just one person

787
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 2: at the jail. It wasn't just one guard, or it

788
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: was not just the jailers. It was the medical staff

789
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 2: that was contracted to be there for the inmates. You

790
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,919
Speaker 2: got to you have a company that provides medical help. Yeah,

791
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 2: Contram paid to provide and they The only person we

792
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 2: know did anything was the one nurse begging at the end.

793
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 2: One other nurse did mention, hey, he's not doing well,

794
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 2: but the rest of them just mocked. And so they're

795
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 2: paying for it now to a degree. I don't know

796
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,439
Speaker 2: what will happen. It hasn't all been done because, as

797
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 2: you know, when you have a big group of people

798
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 2: like this, where twenty five get indicted, twenty four specifically

799
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: for what happened with Tony Mitchell. The other one was

800
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 2: not involved in the Tony Mitchell case, but was indicted

801
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 2: because well, he forged some paperwork that they found where

802
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 2: they had abused other mates. It was an ongoing system

803
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 2: of abuse that existed in this jail with these so

804
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,479
Speaker 2: called people. And I mean, I just for the life

805
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 2: of being Joseph Scott Morgan, my heart hurts for the

806
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 2: family of Tony Mitchell for them to know that they

807
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 2: called for help. They called and said, we can't do anything.

808
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 2: We were afraid he's going to hurt himself or someone else.

809
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 2: Please help us, And in return, yeah, this is what.

810
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: They Yeah, and I understand. I understand that at this

811
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: point there has been you know, the family has sued

812
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: as as right they should, and there's been some undisclosed

813
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: settlement that has occurred. But there's still more to come

814
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 1: in this case. And listen, my friends, I never really

815
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,760
Speaker 1: ask you for much, all right. As a matter of fact,

816
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: there's nothing I just want to give to you, guys.

817
00:50:55,480 --> 00:51:03,760
Speaker 1: But in this particular case, I hope that I hope

818
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: that if you're able to show mercy to one person

819
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: in your life, I'm begging you, please take that opportunity,

820
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,800
Speaker 1: Take that opportunity to show mercy to people that are

821
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: in difficult times, that are in dire straits. It's a

822
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: tough world out there. We talk about it all the time.

823
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 1: But this case, more than maybe any in recent memory,

824
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 1: has really pricked my heart. I'd have to say, because

825
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: I see a guy that is at the mercy of

826
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: the system. He had no recourse whatsoever. There will be

827
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 1: as there has been I guess now since twenty twenty

828
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 1: three in an empty chair family's Thanksgiving table that's right

829
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: around the corner. Remember Tony. Please keep him in mind,

830
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: keep his family in your prayers, and tell his story

831
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 1: to other people, because Tony's death, I think needs to

832
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: mean something. There are other cases that are out there.

833
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 1: I know that there are where people are being treated poorly,

834
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: badly and humanely. We've got animal shelters out there that

835
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: treat animals better than Tony was treated. I'm begging you

836
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: do a little self examination. I know I have, and

837
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: think about this extensive mercy and hopefully mercy at some

838
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 1: point in tom will be extended to you. I'm Josephcott

839
00:52:52,920 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Bodybags