1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there, and 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: this is Stuff you Should Know, the True Crime edition again. Yeah, 5 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: we've done a few of these, right. True crime is 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: so hot right now? Hey, man, we were we were 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: dabbling on the periphery of true crime when most of 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: these people were wetting their diapers. That's right, man, that 9 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: is right. I'm glad somebody finally said it. We were 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: occasionally doing a poor job of covering true crime ten 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: years ago. That's right. We're gonna do it again, right, 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: we continue that great rich history. Yeah, because true crime 13 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: can be extraordinarily interesting, especially when you're talking about an 14 00:00:55,080 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: extraordinarily over complicated heist that results in a man's bizarre death, 15 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: death by bizarre means and involves what really ultimately, you 16 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: could make a case as an unsolved mystery still today, 17 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: even though it's technically bureaucratically been solved. A lot of 18 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: people say, no, this thing hasn't been solved yet. You 19 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: got you got homemade bombs, you got a scavenger hunt, 20 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: got a crreck dealer, well, you gotta have a correct dealer, 21 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: got prostitutes, m got pizza and yeah, and let's start 22 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: with the pizza Geo Metro right, which, by the way, 23 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: I just wanted to point out ahead of time, there 24 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: is no more pizza delivery car two thousand three than 25 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: a geometro, a tal one, no less. The thing is, 26 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: it's almost like they rolled them right off the line 27 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: in two thousand three, with the straight to a pizza place, 28 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: with the pizza guy inside already and the little signed 29 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: magneted on right a little crooked yep. So the whole 30 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: thing does start, actually with a pizza guy, a pizza place, 31 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: and a teal Geo Metro. And like you said, the 32 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: whole thing starts in two thousand three in Erie, Pennsylvania. 33 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: And there was a and still is I looked it up. 34 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: There's a pizza place called Mama me Is Pizza Rhea. 35 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: But fine, sure it gets the job done right. And 36 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: at about two pm on August two thousand three, a 37 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: pizza delivery guy named Brian Wells I think he was 38 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: forty six at the time. He was about to end 39 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: his morning shift when a call came in for two 40 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: small sausage and pepperoni pizzas, and the the delivery was 41 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: I guess the opposite way of where Brian was going 42 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: to go on his way home. But he said, you 43 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 1: know what, I'll take this one last order and he 44 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: walked out the door at about two And the next 45 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: time that Brian Wells was seen in public again, he 46 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: was entering a p NC bank branch just down the 47 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: street from his pizza place, a few miles up the road, 48 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: and he looked a lot different than he did when 49 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: he left the pizza parlor about twenty eight minutes earlier. Yeah, so, 50 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: first of all, he was he was walking with a cane, 51 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: kind of a funny looking kane uh. And then under 52 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: his T shirt he had clearly and if you've seen 53 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: the footage and the photos, you can see a warning 54 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: by the way for video, yeah, for the future. It's 55 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: quite graphic. It's out there, but it is out there. 56 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: But he had clearly some large, boxy looking thing. It 57 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: looked like he's wearing a shoe box around his neck 58 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: with a T shirt pulled over it kind of butt in. 59 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: The teller at the bank's defense could have been an 60 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: artific shell torso, and she probably didn't want to draw 61 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: attention to it. She yes, she was being very kind, right. 62 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,119 Speaker 1: So one thing I want to point out too, there's 63 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: already discrepancy what we're like a minute into the story, 64 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: and there's already a discrepancy. That shirt he was wearing 65 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: over that boxy thing underneath his shirt said guests on it. 66 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: And I've seen that it was written somehow, like in 67 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: spray paint or marker, or that it was an actual 68 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: guest Jeans T shirt. Really, so either an officially licensed 69 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: or not license but whatever brand shirt or a homemade 70 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: jankie spray painted version. Yeah, And if you look, the 71 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: pictures don't really show one way or another. It looks 72 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: more like it's homemade. And I looked up to see 73 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: if there was a guest shirt that, you know, if 74 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: I could find the actual guest shirt, it wasn't. Couldn't, 75 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: so I think it may have been homemade. Regardless, he's 76 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: wearing this shirt that says guests on and he walks 77 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: up to the teller and he hands the teller a note, 78 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: and the note says, I have a bomb. Get everybody 79 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: who has access codes to the safe together and put 80 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars into a bag and 81 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: bring it to me. I think he said, you have 82 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes to do this, which is kind of a 83 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: long time if you're a bank robber, it is. It's 84 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: like almost like luxurious. And what said, like sixty seconds, yeah, 85 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: or this should have happened yesterday, chop chop. So he um. 86 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: He stands back and waits, apparently grabs a dumb, dumb 87 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: lollipop out of the little basket while he's waiting, because 88 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: why not. And the teller says, sir, um, we don't 89 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: have like, we can't get into the safe. That's just 90 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: not how things work. I'm sorry, but as a consolation prize, 91 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: I'm going to put two dollars into a bag for 92 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: you right here and send you on your way. Okay. Yeah, 93 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: And and importantly we did not mention he lifted his 94 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: shirt up and showed this teller this this bomb, this 95 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: what's called a collar bomb, strapped around neck. Right. So 96 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 1: he walks out of the bank a freeman. And the 97 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: next time that he's seen in public is about fifteen 98 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: minutes later, and he's seen in public by some Pennsylvania 99 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: State troopers who are on the lookout for this guy. 100 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: And he's still wearing that shirt, he's still got the 101 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: big bulge, and he's standing around his geometro parked in 102 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: a parking lot that is actually shared with that p 103 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 1: NC bank and the McDonald's and he's in a parking 104 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: lot right there. So basically he left the bank robbery 105 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: and went about a hundred to two feet away from it, 106 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: and that's where he was found like a full fifteen 107 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: minutes later. Yeah. So these these these coppas, these troopers 108 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: come over and uh, he says, hey, guys, this is 109 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: a bomb around my neck. A group of a group 110 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: of black men chain this bomb around my neck at gunpoint, 111 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: forced me to rob this bank for them. I'm not 112 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: gonna I'm not lying here. A thing is gonna go off. 113 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: So the cops called the bomb squad and they do 114 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: I saw, you know his The family of Wells is 115 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: still angry about the fact that she says they did 116 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: nothing to save them. But I would be too. By 117 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: the way, we should shout out Wired magazine. Oh yes, 118 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: we really really should. A lot of this came from 119 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: a great, heavily researched story by Rich Shapiro for about 120 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: eight years ago, called The Incredible true story of the 121 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: color bomb heist. So thank you Rich for your work. 122 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: But the dudes on the ground, he said, I mean, 123 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: if you I kind of remember this happening, because when 124 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: I went and looked at the still images, I was like, 125 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: wait a minute, I've I've seen this. And this is 126 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: guy sitting on the ground, uh, with this thing around 127 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: his neck, kind of just waiting, seated on the pavement 128 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: for about twenty five minutes. He says, very uh interestingly, 129 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: like did you call my boss at the pizza place? Uh? 130 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, this bomb starts beeping fast, 131 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: which is never a good sign. And when I was 132 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: reading the story, I thought, well, that's just a ruse. 133 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: But no, this thing detonated and killed him. It blasted 134 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: a hole in his chest. Um, it did not blow 135 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: his head off like the internet says. No. But it 136 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: was a violent, awful death. Yeah, it was, and it 137 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: was pretty quick. And then three minutes after the bomb 138 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: goes off, the bomb squad showed up, so they so 139 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: he's dead. This, this guy, Brian Wells, is dead. And 140 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: the whole time he was protesting, He's like, you know, 141 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: this is I was forced to rob the bank. Are 142 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: you guys gonna get this off of me or what? Um? Yeah, 143 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: he said something like did you call my boss? Because 144 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: apparently he was a very um loyal employee. He'd been 145 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: working at MoMA MIA's for how long, like ten years 146 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: or something like that, for years and years, and he'd 147 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: only called in late once, not even sick late once 148 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: when his cat died. That Rich Shapiro and that Wired article, 149 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: so um, it seemed like he actually was telling the 150 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: truth that he had been abducted and forced to rob 151 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: the bank and then had been a victim. I think 152 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: the bomb going off really kind of put an exclamation 153 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: point on his story that he was not a willing 154 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: participant in this, right. Yeah. So the cops obviously check 155 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: out that geo metro uh and it's sweet sweet styling, 156 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: and they saw his cane in there. It turns out 157 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: the reason why the cane was funny looking is because 158 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: it was also a gun. And it really looks a 159 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: lot like a gun. Yeah when you when you look 160 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: at it. Um, the bomb was clearly homemade, had a 161 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: couple of different parts to it. It was this this 162 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: banded metal collar that he wore around his neck. It 163 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: was like locked to his neck. Head, four key holes, 164 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: and then a combination lock. It was really locked to 165 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: his neck, and then an iron box with two pipe 166 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: bombs loaded up ready to go. And then interestingly, and 167 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: this will figure uh, put a pin in this one 168 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: because this will figure in the in the case later. Uh. 169 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: It had two kitchen timers in there in addition to 170 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: an elect an electronic countdown timer, yeah, which was I 171 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: guess the thing that started beating faster and faster. Yeah. 172 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: And then some decoy wires. You'll always gotta have those 173 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: if you're if you're making a bomb. Sure, but I mean, 174 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: like that's pretty smart. So there's decoy wires. They were 175 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: apparently also stickers that said like don't do it or 176 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: you know, skull and crossbones or rat poison whatever. Yeah, 177 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: and uh oh that's a good nine to five reference. 178 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: I just saw that the other night. Um, so it 179 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: was a it was a homemade bomb, but it was 180 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: by all accounts a well made bomb too, and it worked, 181 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: which I think is one of the the big the 182 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: big questions about any homemade bomb is whether it will 183 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: actually work or not. And this one worked with deadly effect. 184 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: That's right. So the most important thing they found in 185 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 1: this car though. Um were some letters, some handwritten notes 186 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: addressed to bomb hostage. So one of them said, I 187 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: mean these were instructions basically on what this guy should do, 188 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: which further kind of cemented like, hey, this guy is 189 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 1: probably telling the truth. It said, go rob this bank 190 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: of two fifty grand, and then very strangely outlined this little, 191 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: uh scavenger hunt basically to where eventually you will land 192 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: upon the keys to in combination to get you out 193 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: of this thing by going all over town and finding 194 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: these various hidden notes, and at the last note you 195 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: will you will be able to free yourself. Yeah, the 196 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: last one will give you the keys and the combination. 197 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: But you better hurry because you have a limited amount 198 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: of time. If you stop and think you're going to 199 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: waste time and you're going to die, we can detonate 200 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: this remotely and we're going to be following you. It 201 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: was written pretty crazily. Have you read any of the note, Yeah, 202 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: so like there it's it's got a lot of um 203 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: like just like a lot of jump jump cuts and 204 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: or jump scares in it. You know, like you'll it's 205 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: like go do this and and then go do that 206 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: after that, and then don't try anything in funny, we're 207 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: gonna blow you up. You know. It has those every 208 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: once in a while. And there's drawings in there of 209 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: where he could find, like like the notes and all that, 210 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: So that he made it as far as the first note, 211 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 1: which was McDonald's. It was in that that McDonald's that 212 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: shared a parking lot with the PNC bank. That was 213 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: where the first note was. So he made it to 214 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: that that McDonald's grabbed that note, and that note was 215 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: directing him out of town um to another note, and 216 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: he didn't make it that far. But when the cops 217 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: caught up with him. Yeah, so the scavenger hunt was 218 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: he like he said, he had gotten just to the 219 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: one place. So the cops then say, well, here's what 220 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,599 Speaker 1: we're gonna do. We're gonna complete the scavenger hunt. And 221 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: they were like, whoa, you just blew my mind. That's 222 00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: some great policing. Should we take a break, sure, all right, 223 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: scavenger hunt has just started, by the coppas, we'll be 224 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: right back. All right, we're back. So the scavenger hunts 225 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: still on, Chuck, I mean, they make it. The cops 226 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: follow from the note that Brian Wells had to the 227 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: next clue, and they found the next note, and that 228 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: directed them to another place even further out of town, 229 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: to where they found the jar where the note was 230 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: supposed to be. But the note was gone. Yeah, and 231 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: they don't really know what that means. They didn't know 232 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: if it was just something to keep them busy, preoccupied. 233 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 1: They didn't know if the person who was designing this 234 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 1: scavenger hunt got interrupted or knew that the cops were 235 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: around and they were doing it sort of in real time. 236 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: But at any rate, the unfortunately the scavenger hunt just 237 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: kind of pizzled out, because that was kind of a 238 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: cool part of the story. Yeah, it really was. It 239 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: was like, it's one of the things that makes this 240 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: it's just an incredibly bizarre crime. Why the scavenger hunt, 241 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: It's going to keep coming up again and again, Right, 242 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: So when the true when the scavenger hunt ran out, 243 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: the trail actually went cold. The case started to get 244 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: cold for a few months. The cops sniffed around Brian Wills, 245 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: tried to figure out, you know what, why him, what 246 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: happened with him, And they went back to his place 247 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: of employment and they they kind of checked out the 248 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: kind of person he was right, yeah, And they very 249 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: smartly said, well, wait a minute, why don't we why 250 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: don't we check out what that last delivery was supposed 251 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: to be. There may be a clue there. And it 252 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: was an interesting place it was at the It was 253 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: you can only get there by dirt road and it 254 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: was right next to a TV transmission tower and a 255 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: kind of a remote wooded area. And cops combed the area, 256 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: found shoe prints that matched wells. They found those classic 257 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: iconic geometro tire tracks that everyone could recognizes, Bye Bye Sight. 258 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: But there really weren't any more clues as far as 259 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: the cops were concerned at that location. So where the 260 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: cops had found a dead end, a reporter uh and 261 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: photographer for the Eerie Times News went and did a 262 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: little investating of his own. And I saw this house, 263 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, next door where the pizza was delivered, and said, ween, 264 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go knock on the door. This guy 265 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: answers the door. Um, And his name was Bill Rostein, 266 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: and he actually said, you know, you can look around 267 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: if you want. He's fifty nine years old, he's a handyman, 268 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: wasn't married, had lived there his whole life. And apparently 269 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:57,479 Speaker 1: he seemed really smart. Um had a very uh articulate 270 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: way of speaking and apparently was fluent in several of 271 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: the languages. And the journalists kind of did a little 272 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: poking around and didn't really see much and took off. 273 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: But he made contact with Bill Rothstein. He's the first 274 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: person that kind of was went a knocking, right, but 275 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: nothing came of it, and the cops, as far as 276 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: I know, never went and met with Bill Rothstein, even 277 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: those houses right next to the delivery place where Wells 278 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: was supposedly accosted, right. And then a few like I said, 279 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: the case has gone cold by this time, if a 280 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: couple of months have gone by, the whole the whole um, 281 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got this crime, this very public caper 282 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: that's captured the public's attention. A guy died by by 283 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: being blown up while the while under police supervision. And 284 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: there's no leads, there's no nothing. And then finally, uh, 285 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: several weeks, a few months I think after the call Um, 286 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: there's a nine one one call from Bill Rothstein and 287 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: he tells the police that in his freezer he has 288 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: one of those serial killer chest freezers. There's actually a 289 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: body a man's body and that it was Um, it 290 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: is not someone he murdered, but he helped cover up 291 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: the murder of this man who was the boyfriend of 292 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: Bill Rothstein's ex girlfriend from way way back in the day. 293 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: And now the chain of events has been set off, right. 294 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: And if you're like me and you start hearing wife 295 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: of the ex girlfriend's dad's cousin, your brain gets a 296 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: little jumbled. So just very plainly, he used to date 297 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: this woman. This woman called him up and said, Hey, 298 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: I've murdered my current boyfriend or was it her husband? Uh, 299 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: it was her boyfriend, and she said, and I need 300 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: your help here. Um, I blasted him with a with 301 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: a shotgun, and I know we tated, oh twenty years ago, 302 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: but we come help me out because they were still 303 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: in contact. I guess they remained friends. I guess. So 304 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: in this racked Bill Rostein. Apparently he thought about committing suicide. 305 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: Apparently there was even a note. They found, a suicide note, 306 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: but he maintained, like you said with the cops, that 307 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: he didn't have anything to do with anything. But most 308 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: of the clean up, the clean up, getting rid of 309 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: the murder weapon and then holding onto the body. Yeah, 310 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: but what which the reason he held on the body 311 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: was supposed to get apparently supposed to grind this body up. 312 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: And that's where he finally stopped short and was like, Jesus, 313 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: I can't do this, And he said he told the 314 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: cops that the reason he called them finally lose because 315 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: since he wasn't going through with grinding up the body, 316 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: he was worried what this woman, Marjorie Deal Armstrong was 317 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: going to do to him. He's like, I dated this lady, right, 318 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: She's not a nice person. And so when he says 319 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: Marjorie Deal Armstrong to the eerie cops, just alarm bell 320 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: start going off because by this time, already Marjorie Deal 321 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: Armstrong was a local legend as far as crew roles 322 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: are concerned. She was this very very bright woman um 323 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: who I think, at the age of thirty five back 324 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: in the eighties, had been indicted for killing one of 325 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: her boyfriends, shot him six times. She played that she 326 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: had killed them in self defense, that he was an 327 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: abuser of her, and she was actually acquitted. A few 328 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 1: years after that. She was married to a guy named Armstrong, 329 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: and he showed up at the hospital with a head 330 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: trauma and actually died of a cerebral hemorrhage, but there 331 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: was no coroners in quest or anything like that, and 332 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: so it just was something suspicious, you know, the second 333 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: second significant other of this woman to die under suspicious 334 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: or violent circumstances. So so when Bill Rothstein said I'm 335 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: worried about what Marjorie deal Armstron's gonna do to me, 336 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: the cops seemed to have taken it very seriously, well, 337 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: extremely seriously, because the next day they arrested her. That's 338 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: pretty serious for murder. Uh And about a year and 339 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: a half later, a little short of that, she pled 340 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: guilty but mentally ill. She was sentenced to seven to 341 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: twenty UM. And then Rothstein, on for his part, eventually 342 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: died of cancer in two thousand four. Right, and so 343 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: you said that he had considered killing himself and even 344 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: wrote a suicide note. Right, Yeah, there's something very very 345 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: odd on Bill Rothstein's suicide note. And again he didn't 346 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: kill himself. He died of cancer. But he was able 347 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: to actually show the cops where as suicide note was, 348 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: and they read it, and the first line of it, 349 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: from what I understand, was this has nothing to do 350 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 1: with the collar bomb heist or the Brian Wells murder. Yeah, 351 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: that that's a it's a weird thing to put if 352 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: you had nothing to do with that, you know, right, 353 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: that's just a very odd thing to do. It's like 354 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: when the cops come in and you go, there's nothing 355 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: under the bed, don't don't there's no reason to look there, right, 356 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: they said, we just fun to make sure your fire 357 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: alarm is working part of a community service. Cool, but 358 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: the bed's fine. Right. So that is a very weird 359 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: thing to say, and that definitely piqued the interests of 360 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: the cops. But like you said, the cops convicted or 361 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: the state convicted Marjorie deal Armstrong of the murder of 362 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: um James Roden or Jim Roden. Right, she's already in prison, 363 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: and when she's in prison, somehow this is what I'm 364 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: unclear on, somehow it comes up or she starts talking 365 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: or something like that, that Jim Roden's death very much 366 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: had to do with the Wells case, with Brian Wells murder, 367 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: this collar bomb heist, and that she knows a lot 368 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: about it, and if they'll transfer her to a minimum 369 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: security prison close to Erie, she'll she'll start talking Yeah, 370 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: she has for the old Hannibal electric treatment. So is 371 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: that how it came up, like she approached them, because 372 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: I'm I'm unclear on that. I mean, I think so 373 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: this is in the Wired article it said that, um, 374 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: that there was a phone call from a state cop 375 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: who had just met with her about something unrelated, like 376 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: a different homicide, and she just and and it kind 377 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: of makes sense though now actually when we as we 378 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: will learn, Um, she talked a lot, Yeah, a lot, 379 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: So it doesn't surprise me that another cop was just 380 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: meeting with her about something unrelated. She's like, by the way, 381 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: that whole collar bomb thing, I got all the skinny 382 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: on that, right, So there's a couple of things going 383 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: on here. By then, Um, by the time she calls 384 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: the cops, the cops have already spoken apparently with several 385 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: informants that have shared cells with her or spent time 386 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: with her in jail already, Um, who are saying like, uh, 387 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: this lady is the mastermind of that collar bomb heist 388 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: that's making you guys look bad. Yeah, And eventually, you know, 389 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: when they met with her about this, she she admitted 390 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: that she was involved, but um, well she didn't met 391 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: she was involved in the plot, but she said, I 392 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: knew about it. I gave him. I gave him those 393 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: two kitchen timers, and I was really close by when 394 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: it happened. Uh. And by the way, the guy who 395 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: blew up with the collar bomb, Mr Wells, he was 396 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: actually in on it too, And Rothstein headed the whole 397 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: thing up, right. But for her deal Armstrong, she said, 398 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: but I had nothing to do with it, even though 399 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: I had all these other little things to do with it. 400 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: I never met Brian Wells. I didn't know Brian Wells. 401 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with his death aside from 402 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: supplying the kitchen timers. Um, and know all about it 403 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: right exactly. Um. So, now it's just getting weird, right, 404 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: because there's the Jim Rodent murder, who she says that 405 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: she killed because he was abusing her, who Rothstein said 406 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: she killed over a dispute with money, but is now 407 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: she's saying is tied to the Wells case, and which 408 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: she knows a lot about but really nothing about and 409 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with. So the cops are like, well, 410 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: let's just get this lated talk all we can, And 411 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: one of the things they got out of her was 412 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: her she agreed to a tour around Eerie, showing them 413 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: all these places where she had been, and these were 414 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: all places that were related to the crime. Like I 415 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: believe she said she'd been at the pizza delivery site. 416 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: I think she said she's been within a mile of 417 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 1: the of the bank when it was robbed. Like all 418 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: of this stuff. She's just like, they just keep giving 419 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: her this rope and she's just wrapping it around her 420 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: neck again and again and again, and then finally chuck 421 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: at the end of this car ride, after she's been 422 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: interviewing with the cops multiple times, giving him tons of info. 423 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: What does she say? She asked for immunity at this 424 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: point after she hit basically completely incriminated herself. Uh. And 425 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: previous to all this, a lot more happened. There were 426 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,239 Speaker 1: four different informants who had come forward and said that 427 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: this lady has been talking about this for a while, 428 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: she very much had everything to do with it. And 429 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: then a couple of months after she had started talking 430 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: to the Feds, another big break came. This witness came 431 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: forward and said, Hey, there's this crack dealer named Kenny Barnes. 432 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: That is a correc dealer's name Kenneth Barnes, and he 433 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: was involved. Uh, they used to go fishing together, Armstrong, 434 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: Deal Armstrong and Barnes, and she sang like a canary 435 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: to him basically, and said, here's what she did. She 436 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: her brother in law put him in touch with Barnes 437 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: while he was already in jail on unrelated art charges basically. 438 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: And so Barnes was already in prison, said hey, I 439 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: think I can shorten my time. So I'm gonna try 440 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: and get a reduced sentence at least by spilling the 441 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: beans on Deal Armstrong. Right. And Barnes brother in law 442 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: was who turned him into the cops. So Barnes is like, 443 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: I'm already I'm in jail for selling crack. That's way 444 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: different from being you know, very much involved in this 445 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: collar bomb heist. Um. So he said, okay, I'll tell 446 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: you guys everything you want to know. I'll be your 447 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: star witness. Um, just reduce my sentence in the for 448 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: my involvement in this. And he started talking. When he 449 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: started talking, it was at Marjorie Deal Armstrong's um trial, 450 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: which was a pretty spectacular trial from all accounts. Yeah, 451 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: and and before the trial even he told his story 452 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: was is that she wanted me to kill her father. 453 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: He was spending what would end up being her inheritance, 454 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: she felt, and so she wanted him dead. And so 455 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: she was doing this collar bomb heist to raise money 456 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: to pay me to kill her dad, which I mean, like, 457 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: that's just the biggest face palm I've ever heard of. 458 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: Yeah for a real So, okay, we'll start Marjorie Deal 459 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: Armstrong's trial. Um, after we take a break, how about 460 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: that man? That sounds good? Okay, okay, chuck. So, before 461 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: Marjorie Deal Armstrong goes to trial, and remember, she's already 462 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,719 Speaker 1: in prison for the murder of Jim roden Right, shooting 463 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: him in the back with a twelve gage shotgun. Um, 464 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: Bill Rothstein is dead. I want to call him a 465 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: Rothstein so Ace Rothstein, so bad. But Bill Rothstein is dead. 466 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: He died of limp foma a couple of years before. 467 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: And by the time Marjorie Deal Armstrong is is brought 468 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: to trial for her involvement as the mastermind of the 469 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: collar bomb plot, they have to, um, they have to 470 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 1: verify that she's actually mentally competent to stand trial. And 471 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: that's kind of touchy because remember when she she was 472 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: charged with killing her boyfriend back in I think six 473 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: she was She was deemed incompetent seven times by psychiatrists 474 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: before the judge finally said, I'm I'm throwing all that 475 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: out and deciding that she is competent. We're going to 476 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: go ahead with the trial. They also found like four 477 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: hundred pounds of butter and seven hundred pounds of cheese 478 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: in her um in her house when they were investigating 479 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: that particular murder. And in in between and the time 480 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: she was tried in the collar bomb heist, she had 481 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, So there it was actually 482 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: kind of question of well, whether she was mentally competent 483 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: to see and trial um. And right as they were 484 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: about to start the proceedings, I think the judge rule 485 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: that she was competent to sand trial. Um. She was 486 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: diagnosed with cancer herself, that's right. So they waited for 487 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: the cancer diagnosis or prognosis, and the cancer doctor came 488 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: back and said three to seven years, and the prosecutors said, 489 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: giddy up, that's right. So previous to this, she she 490 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: had gotten the indictment. But in that indictment it's very 491 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: important that she was not I mean, granted she was 492 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: the only one technically indicted, but they in the indictment 493 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: it said that Rothstein was definitely a conspirator and Wells, 494 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: the man who was who was the victim, supposedly he 495 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: was definitely involved in this thing from the beginning. Yeah, 496 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, as a very important thing that that 497 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: showed up in this indictment. Yeah, they said he agreed 498 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,719 Speaker 1: to rob this bank, he thought it was a fake bomb, 499 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: and uh, he was told the scavenger hunt was a 500 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: ruse to full the cops and if and when he 501 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: did get caught, he could say, you know, I was 502 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: just following orders basically what he did, right, And so 503 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: Brian Well's family did not like this at all. Apparently 504 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: during the the the press conference where the d A. 505 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: Evere County is announcing this, you know, this case case 506 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: is closed. This is the indictment that they have, Um 507 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: the Wells, some of Brian Well's sisters were shouting liar 508 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: at her. They did not take the idea that their 509 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: brother was an accomplice in this at all, Um very well. Yeah, 510 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: I mean there was a lot of uh, there's a 511 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: lot of back and forth about whether Wells was in 512 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: on the thing from the beginning, or whether or not 513 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: he was in from the beginning and then at one 514 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: point wanted out and was forced to do this, or 515 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: whether he was forced from the beginning. Everyone's telling a 516 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: different story. Uh. And you know, basically the trial is 517 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: where we will learn, you know, if all that is true, 518 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: what really happened. So, um, Marjorie deal Armstrong's lawyers said, 519 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: you know, to heck with with caution, let's put you 520 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: on the stand. Okay, you've already incriminated yourself multiple times. 521 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: Why not do it in open court too? And um, 522 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: she apparently was quite a She put on quite a 523 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: performance on the on the stand over like two days, 524 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: I think five and a half hours of testimony. Um, 525 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: she yelled, she cried, She berated the prosecutor and her 526 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: own lawyer. Uh. She when she did mention Brian Well, 527 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: she said, I've never met the guy. I learned of 528 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: his death when everybody else did on the TV news. 529 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: And she she stuck with her story though that she 530 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with this. She knew a little 531 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: bit about it. She knew the the conspirators. The real 532 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: mastermind was Bill Rothstein, and it wasn't her. That's what 533 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: she maintained though throughout the trial and even after word. 534 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: That's right. But before she took the stand a few 535 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: days earlier is when they trotted out Kin Barnes and 536 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: he took the stand, and he said he had you know, 537 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: by the time she took the stand, he had given 538 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: a different account of the story then she would later do. 539 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: So he got up there and said she was behind 540 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: all this. She was the mastermind. Rostein was involved. She 541 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: just recruited him. Basically, she recruited Wells because Wells needed money. 542 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: And here's where the where the prostitutes come into play. 543 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: Apparently Wells had a relationship with the prostitute who was 544 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: also a crack addict, so he would buy crack to 545 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: give her um, presumably as trade for sex. He ended 546 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: up falling into debt with these crack dealers and needed money, 547 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: and so basically the plot of Boulan rouge uh and 548 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: he contends um Barnes did that that up until the 549 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: day of the time, Wells was thought this whole thing 550 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: was fake, realized that it was a double cross. It 551 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: was a real bomb, and he tried to run away 552 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: and was tackled and they put a gun to his 553 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: head and locked him into this device. So imagine this choke. 554 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: Imagine being Brian Wells and you're agreeing to to put 555 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: on what you are presuming is a fake caller bomb 556 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: to go carry out a real bank robbery because you 557 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: need money, because you're indebted to crack dealers, because you 558 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: borrowed from crack from them to give to your girlfriend, 559 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: who's a prostitute who you have to give crack two 560 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: to be with. And then you find out on the 561 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: day of that this is a real bomb and they're 562 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: putting it on you, whether you like it or not. 563 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: What a horrible what a horrible turn of events for 564 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: this poor guy. I mean, that's just so sad, no 565 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: matter how you slice it. And then if you take 566 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: his family's uh, if you take his family's opinion that 567 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: he was innocent, he really was um delivering pizzas and 568 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: was accosted and had nothing to do with any of this, 569 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,399 Speaker 1: which I take with a pretty big grain AsSalt. I mean, 570 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: that's just as bad. But it's bad either way, whether 571 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: he was an accomplice at one point or not. It's 572 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: it's very it's super sad. There's a very sad thread 573 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: that's running through this story in the form of Brian Wells, 574 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: you know. Well, yeah, and on the final day of 575 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,760 Speaker 1: her trial, at the very very end of her taking 576 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,479 Speaker 1: the stand, is when she finally said that she didn't 577 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 1: know him, never met him, and the first time she 578 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: had ever laid eyes on him was on the news 579 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: that day. Right. Basically, he and Marjorie deal Armstrong are fishing, right, 580 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 1: they're fishing buddies that she he's somebody that she would 581 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: turn to, and she's finding out that her father is 582 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: blowing through her inheritance and she wants to put a 583 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: stop to it, and so he she approaches Barnes to 584 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: get him to kill her father. But to get that 585 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: two K two that he says he will kill her 586 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: father for, she's got to rob a bank. So she 587 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: turns to her friend Bill Rothstein to come up with 588 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,280 Speaker 1: this collar bomb to put it on this other person, 589 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: Brian Wells, who's going to carry this out. You know, 590 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: by the way, we're also going to come up with 591 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: a scavenger hunt to either throw the cops off or 592 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: to actually make Brian Wells feel more comfortable, give him 593 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: some sort of cover in case he is caught. And 594 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: that's what we're gonna go with go team and Marjorie 595 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: deal arms trunk. So that's preposterous that that wasn't me. 596 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: Kenneth Barnes said, that's that's exactly what happened. And then 597 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: Bill Rothstein wasn't alive to to contradict any of it. 598 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: That's right. So she's sentenced, right, she's convicted as the 599 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: mastermind of this pot. Yeah. The jury took about eleven 600 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: hours and she was convicted of armed, armed bank robbery, conspiracy, 601 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: and using a destructive device in a crime of violence. 602 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 1: That's a big one. I'll bet a bet that carries 603 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: a hefty sentence with it. Yeah, and she would she 604 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: would die in prison, just like her prognosis said she 605 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: and I think she lasted a few years now. They 606 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,919 Speaker 1: gave her three to seven years and she lasted seven. Yeah, 607 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: so she finally passed away, and you know, that's kind 608 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: of the end of the story. Even though there's a 609 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: retired FBI investigator named Jim Fisher who said, I think 610 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: they got this all wrong. I think that Rothstein was 611 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,280 Speaker 1: the guy the whole time, and he makes a decently 612 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: compelling case, but it's you know, everyone's dead now. Yeah, 613 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: Jim Fisher has gone a little bit down the rabbit 614 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 1: hole if you ask me. Yeah, I mean it's it's 615 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: kind of hard to tell with literally everyone having died. Um, 616 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: but for his money, he thinks it was Rothstein. Yeah, 617 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: And so there's probably not many people who are familiar 618 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 1: with the case who would say that it wasn't Rothstein 619 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: who built the bomb. But what Jim Fishers saying is 620 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: like Bill Rothstein was behind everything, and Marjorie deal Armstrong 621 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 1: murdering Jim Roden was just like a gift that dropped 622 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: in Bill Rothstein's lap that he could use to make 623 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: all these puppets dance, including the cops, and that the 624 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: whole point of it was to create this elaborate scheme, 625 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: this elaborate crime that would puzzle people for for for 626 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: years and years to come, which it's it's doing that, 627 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: and that that was the point, and that Brian Wells 628 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: was going to die one way or another, right because 629 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: I think the FBI said they concluded the whole scavenger 630 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: hunt was a hoax and that Brian Wells was never 631 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: going to survive this, didn't they. Yeah, So so this 632 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: is Jim Fisher's position. But like you said, now that 633 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 1: everybody's dead. Really, the only question is you know just 634 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: how how complicit was um Brian Wells is the is 635 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 1: the last big question that's right. And then there's one 636 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,919 Speaker 1: other guy who seems to have got off scott free 637 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: named Floyd Stockton. Did you look into him a little bit? 638 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: So he's a guy who was there. He was he 639 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: was there. He supposedly ended Rothstein the bomb to put 640 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: around Brian Well's neck. He was staying with Rothstein as 641 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: a buddy on his couch, fleeing a rape charge in Washington. Um, 642 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: and somehow, for some reason he got immunity and was 643 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: not indicted even though he was very much involved in this, 644 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: and he got off scott free and Brian Wells families 645 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: going nuts over the fact that this guy's out there 646 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: walking free. That he was he was a part of this, 647 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: this caper and he he didn't see a second inside 648 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 1: of a jail. Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if there 649 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: were more people involved. Demon So what do you think 650 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: do you think Brian Wells was was complicit? And if so, 651 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 1: how much? Oh? Man, I don't know. I mean, it 652 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 1: sounds like I kind of believe the story that they 653 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,280 Speaker 1: were all in it together and he was probably double crossed. 654 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: But this is just from reading about this thing many 655 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: many years later. Do you think Marjorie deal Armstrong was 656 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: the mastermind? I don't know. I don't know either. Maybe 657 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: we'll never know, but we might, but probably not. Have 658 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: you got anything else? I got nothing else? All right? Well, 659 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,720 Speaker 1: if you want to know more about the collar bomb case, 660 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: you can type that word in the search bar your 661 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: favorite search engine and it will likely bring up a 662 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 1: very great article. I'm wired from Rich Shapiro. Read that 663 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: start there. It's great, And since I said Rich Shapiro, 664 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: it's side for the listener mail, I'm gonna go with 665 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: one on emoji and John Adams. Hey guys enjoyed the 666 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: recent podcast about the history of emojis and emoticons. Reminded 667 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: me of a discovery I made in the diaries of 668 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: John Adams that makes a historical figure who's sometimes described 669 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: as a loof, seemed completely charming. When the future president 670 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,959 Speaker 1: was about twenty two years old, he made an entry 671 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: in his diary uh in seventeen fifty six, saying, a 672 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: cloudy morning about ten and he drew a little sunshine 673 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,919 Speaker 1: gout a warm day. He used a little line drawing 674 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: in the sun that I always call an eighteenth century emoji. Uh. 675 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: He likes a little creation so much he readsed it 676 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: a month later in the same diary, A Misty Morning, 677 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 1: Little sunshine breakout about noon. On the Massachusetts Historical Society website, 678 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: the text of his letters and diaries is faithfully transcribed, 679 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: but in the cases a In these cases, a parenthetical 680 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: note tells readers that there are small drawings of the 681 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: sun and advises them to refer to the scans of 682 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,479 Speaker 1: the handwritten page where you can actually see this. Um. 683 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: Apparently he grew out of his habit, though, because his 684 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: later diaries do not use the adorable little son. Keep 685 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: up with great work. My wife and I host a 686 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: local history podcast for Boston. It's tightly scripted. Oh man, 687 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: he didn't tell me what it was. I would have 688 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:53,000 Speaker 1: totally shouted it out. Uh. I know, big, big missed 689 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: opportunity there. Jake, one of these days will be confident 690 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,080 Speaker 1: enough to have an unscripted conversation like you guys to 691 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: and that is from Jake Scan Yours. Okay, so everybody's 692 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: look up Jake scan Yours Boston history podcast, and it 693 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: will probably bring it up right, probably so thanks a lot, Jake, 694 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 1: thanks for keeping up the good fight up there. That's 695 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: pretty cool. Good story too. If you want to get 696 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: in touch with us, like Jake did, tell us about 697 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: your podcast, that's great. You can tweet to us. I'm 698 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 1: at josh oam Clark and at s Y s K podcast, 699 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,280 Speaker 1: and Chuck is at movie Crush all on Twitter. On Facebook, 700 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 1: you can go to Facebook dot com slash Stuff you 701 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: Should Know or Facebook dot com slash Charles W. Chuck Bryant. 702 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 1: If you can send us all an email. The Stuff 703 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 1: podcast at how stuff Works dot com and has always 704 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: joined us at our home on the web, Stuff you 705 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:48,240 Speaker 1: Should Know dot com. For more on this and thousands 706 00:41:48,280 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: of other topics, is it how stuff Works dot com