WEBVTT - Thank You for Being a Friend 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:02.400 I didn't want it to feel like a date, but 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:05.240 it was a date. A married woman on a date. 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:09.200 It didn't feel good at all, but it felt good 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:10.440 at you know, it's at the same time. If you 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:15.360 understand what I'm trying to say, that voice you just 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:19.720 heard was Sabrina. Sabrina's in her fifties, she doesn't have children, 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:24.200 and she's been married for twenty years. Unlike our last guest, 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:28.320 Sabrina didn't initiate her affair because she wasn't feeling fulfilled sexually. 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:34.199 She wasn't really feeling much of anything except loneliness. Her 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:37.600 affair just sort of happened, and when it did, she 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.320 found it filled a different need for her. It fulfilled 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.760 something that she'd been missing with her husband for a 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:48.000 pretty long time. I don't know if I was looking 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.880 for another relationship. I think I just was looking for 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:54.600 someone to talk to. My husband's always at work. You know, 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.080 we have no children, so I think I was just 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.520 really looking for a good friend. But it just happened 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:05.360 to turn into something more than friends. The man Sabrina 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.080 started cheating on her husband with made her feel good again, 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.080 like she had a real companion, one who was actually 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:18.039 invested in her. He tells me that I'm his best friend, 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:23.640 and that just melts my heart. You know, not just 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.800 oh you're my lover, You're just someone that I'm sleeping with. 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.840 He tells me, I'm glad that I've met you. That 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.000 must feel really nice to be seen like that. Yeah. Yeah, 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:36.960 and I feel like he's my best friend as well. 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:41.760 I'm Joe Piazza and you're listening to She Wants More, 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:46.000 the podcast where real women talk openly and honestly about 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:51.560 the extra marital affairs that have completely changed their lives. Sabrina. 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.120 That's not her real name, by the way. We changed 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:58.520 it to protect her identity. Sabrina hasn't always been lonely 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:03.880 in her marriage. When Sabrina and her husband first got together, 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:08.560 he was obsessed with her. My husband even has a 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.799 tattoo with my name on it, which he did on 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.920 my birthday, I believe, when I was turning thirty five. 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.079 He surprised me. He came home one day with the 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:21.440 tattoo on his neck. Did you like the tattoo? Yeah, 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:23.840 I love it. I love it. I love it. That 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.320 is love. Yes, I've never met anyone like him before, 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:31.840 you know, And she was pretty obsessed with him too. 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.760 How'd your husband proposed? I'm just actually I proposed to him. 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.200 I asked him to marry me. Okay, I think you 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:45.839 were at his parents' house, I believe, or his sister's house. Yeah. Yeah, 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.080 and I asked him to marry me. So in the 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.360 beginning you were quite smitten. You said I want you. 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:55.239 I choose you. Yes, yes, And we were together ten years. 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:57.360 You know, we were married, so I said it, you know, 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.840 it's time to get married. But that was more than 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.560 twenty years ago. And after two decades with one person, 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:11.799 things change. People change. I've been happy up until I 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:16.840 would say, maybe fifteen years into the marriage. You know, 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.720 I love my husband, but you know, it's just that 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:25.760 we are not very compatible anymore. He's much older than me. 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.240 He's ten years older than me. Okay, so make a 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:33.040 big difference. Yes, So he's not as active as I am. 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.720 He likes to just you know, stay home and you know, 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:42.400 do the boring stuff, the boring stuff. So he's not 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.920 very active anymore like he used to be. He's not old, 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.720 but you know, he just doesn't enjoy certain things anymore. 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:55.040 Sabrina was lonely. Her husband worked all the time. They 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.680 had no kids, and she was home all day because 0:03:57.680 --> 0:03:59.560 of an injury that forced her to take a leave 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.680 from more And it was ultimately that loneliness, not a 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.880 desire for sex or passion, that let her to have 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:15.560 an affair in the first place. Loneliness is currently a 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:20.800 public health epidemic. That's psychiatrist doctor Gail Salts. We heard 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.840 from her in the last episode. I called Gail because 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:25.880 I want to know a little bit more about how 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:31.520 debilitating loneliness can truly be and what that loneliness can 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.680 lead you to do. It is a huge cause of depression, 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:42.839 anxiety disorders, health, physical health issues, and it is growing, 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.080 and not in the elderly population where you think it 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:51.480 would be growing, but all manner of ages. And it 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:57.719 is a horrendous and desperate feeling, and so it will 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.479 drive people to do all kinds of things to feel 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:05.360 less lonely. I asked Gail if she'd seen people turn 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.200 to extra marital affairs to stave off their loneliness, even 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.600 when they're married and they think they shouldn't be lonely 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:17.080 because they've got their person already. Sometimes it's worth being 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.560 with somebody that you feel alone with than being alone. 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.400 Just because you're legally married to someone doesn't mean that 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.719 you feel intimately connected to them and you can really 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:29.880 talk about your emotional state. And so one could definitely 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:34.440 feel very lonely in a marriage and be wishing for 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:39.320 and therefore actually making them vulnerable to who might come 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:43.560 along that does listen to them and does make them 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:48.200 feel heard and understood and empathized with and therefore really 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:52.120 connected to. That definitely would easily be the beginning of 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:57.400 at least an emotional affair and then possibly evolve into 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:04.679 a physical affair. Sabrina never imagined being a cheater throughout 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:09.080 my years my relationships. You know, I never cheated. I 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:11.760 was always just me and that person in the relationship. 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.320 You know, I didn't see any to cheat, right, If 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:16.520 you have to cheat, then you know you should just 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.640 not be any relationship. That's how I felt back then. 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.680 But now as I'm getting older, it just changed. My 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.960 feelings just changed. As you get older, you need, you know, 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:31.760 any more compassion in your life. So I didn't particularly 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.160 want something different, but I did want the attention. He 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.479 wasn't giving me any attention, and the affair, it it 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.920 just sort of happened. Nothing that I was set out 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.360 to do, plan to do, it just sort of happened. 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.720 And I gotta say, I get it. I understand why 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:55.240 this situation was so appealing to Sabrina. Before this, she 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:59.719 felt invisible when she first met her husband. He was 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.600 the I who was obsessed with her, the guy who 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:06.960 tattooed her name on his neck. And then suddenly he 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.760 was coming home from being at work all day and 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:14.560 she felt like he didn't even see her. After the break, 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.720 we'll hear more of Sabrina's story, starting with how she 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:22.239 met the man who'd changed her life and everything that happened. Next, 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.840 we're back with she once more. So Sabrina is out 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.040 at this club for her friend's birthday and a guy 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.640 comes along. He's handsome, and he's paying a lot of 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:42.239 attention to her. He's younger than her husband, younger even 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:48.320 than her. He started talking and you just connected. He 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.560 gave me his number. But the thing is he is 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.040 also mad. Should we give him a name or should 0:07:55.040 --> 0:08:00.200 we call him Randy? Randy? Okay? When you and Randy first, 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:05.400 was there a spark? Were you flirting? He was flirting? 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:09.760 He was very good at flirting. We just had good 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:13.800 conversation and you talk for hours, and you know, I've 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:17.320 had a lot of things in common. It felt kind 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:21.080 of strange, knowing I'm married talking with another man, flirting 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.360 with another man. So it was kind of strange but fun, 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.400 I would say. And so he gave you his number, Yeah, 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:32.440 because I don't want to give him my number, you know, right, right, 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.400 And so the ball was in your court. Yeah, basically. Yes, 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.000 Actually I waited two weeks before I called him. You know, 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:42.200 I had to sit and think what am I doing? 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:49.160 So yeah, I waited, waited two weeks before I called him. 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:53.280 Sabrina was pretty nervous when she first called, and she 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.120 didn't really think that anything was gonna come with us. 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.920 She thought it might just be a dinner, a chance 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.200 to hang out with someone new, and that is it. 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.000 I didn't want it to feel like a date, but 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:09.920 it was actually a date, you know, so a married 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:14.080 woman on a date. It didn't feel good at all, 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:16.320 but it felt good, you know. It's at the same time, 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.960 if you understand what I'm what I'm trying to say, Um, yeah, 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.439 it was. It was. It was weird. It was weird, 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:28.120 definitely weird. Did he think it was weird. Um, I 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.599 don't think so. No, No, he's a man, you know, 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:34.520 man they are Yeah, they they don't care, no care. 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.920 And when you went on the date, what did you 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:40.760 think would happen? Did you think, all right, this will 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.760 just be dinner. Um, yeah, I thought it would just 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.520 be dinner. Maybe I wouldn't see him for a while, 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:48.520 you know, we would be friends. That's what I thought 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:54.040 at first. Did you really think that? Yes? But even 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:58.319 though Sabrina didn't intend to see Randy again, the attention 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:02.199 that he gave her was so nice and put a 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.120 little spring in her stuff, and it gave her something 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:10.240 to look forward to. It was very exciting. Yeah. Yeah, 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:14.679 it felt like something new and fresh. I just felt free. 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:19.560 It's hard to explain. And there was a thrill in 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.520 the affair too, in the secrecy of it. Sabrina got 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:27.560 a burner phone to arrange her meetings, and she started 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.640 taking better care of her appearance, of herself and anticipation 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:37.360 of seeing Randy again. We have se phones, you know, 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.240 I have more than one cell phone. Then my husband 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:44.280 doesn't know about so we text on those. Okay, okay, 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.640 that part of it must be kind of exciting too, Yes, 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:53.400 it's very exciting. Yes, how is the sex different? It 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.640 was different because he was Italian, that that was different, 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:58.920 but just you know the fact that he was not 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.720 African American me. So he was my first Italian man 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.920 I've ever been with, you know, sexually, first, my god, 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:14.000 first first man I cheated with first, first, everything first. 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:20.040 For her, unlike for some of our other guests, the 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.960 affair really seemed to be more about the attention and 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.760 the friendship with Randy and how our time with him 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:31.559 made her feel better about herself and less lonely. Didn't 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:33.920 feel like someone was seeing you in a new way too, 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.600 because I feel like when yeah, yes, someone for such 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.520 a long time, it's like you see me, it's the 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:44.640 same way every day. Yes, definitely to have someone notice me. 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.920 You know, my husband notices me, but like I said, 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:51.120 things sometimes they get old. We don't really have anything 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:55.360 really keeping us together, right, you know, it just felt 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:59.120 good to have someone noticed me and send to my needs, 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.280 listen to me. I just felt like it's something that 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:06.680 I needed, something I deserved. So I said, you know, 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:11.880 why not? Why not? I just said, let me take 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:16.040 care of me. There's something really powerful in that position 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.839 and saying I'm going to do this one thing just 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.560 for myself. Yeah, so I can be happy. I want 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.920 to be happy. Did you feel like you've been taking 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.880 care of just your husband for a long time? Ah, yes, 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.400 very much so, and so to take care of yourself 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:37.960 must have felt really different. Yeah, definitely. It's not that 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.160 people say, oh, yeah, that was a great thing to do, 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:44.520 was to have an affair. It's more that when people 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.480 are not talking about what they need to talk about, 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.680 it comes out in their behaviors. That's doctor Laura Gottlieb. 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.800 She's a psychotherapist, an author, and a podcast host. She 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.120 wrote a best selling book that I Love, Love Love 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:04.120 called Maybe You Should to Someone. And So, if somebody 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:08.040 is using an affair to say I didn't know how 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.760 to take care of myself, I felt uncared for in 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.480 my relationship and I didn't know any other way to 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.400 take care of my needs, and then it gets the 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.079 couple talking about the things that they needed to talk 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.600 about long before that affair happened. It can have a 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:28.000 really positive effect on the couple going forward if both 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:32.280 people are invested in having those conversations and repairing the 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:36.040 marriage or the relationship. And then also creating something new 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:42.000 that wasn't there before. But affairs are incredibly painful. There's 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.960 just no way around that. I don't think that anybody 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:50.520 goes around recommending that somebody have an affair. After the break, 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.080 we'll hear more of Sabrina's story, including if she ever 0:13:54.160 --> 0:14:04.200 thinks she'll leave her husband. We're back with she wants more. 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.480 I asked Sabrina what it was exactly about Randy that 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:15.040 made her feel so good, so much more alive. He's 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.880 very touchy, feeling, but very attentive, you know as well, 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:23.280 very attentive. He's just a good man. It's a good man, 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.960 good person. For the two of them, it wasn't just 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:32.640 about sex. It was also about companionship and connection, and 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.120 both of them knew that they wanted to keep seeing 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.040 one another, but they had to figure out how that 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:42.440 was going to work. Randy was married too, but unlike Sabrina, 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:46.960 he had kids. The good thing was that Randy worked nights, 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:51.160 which left his days mostly free, and that's when Sabrina 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:55.120 happened to be available. But from the very start they 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:59.280 knew they had to be careful. We don't meet on weekends, 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.760 you know, my husban minutes at home on the weekends. 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:07.400 We schedule certain days, certain times every week just to 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:11.680 be safe because he has children, so his schedule is 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.880 kind of more booked than mind. So we don't have 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.840 much time to spend together. That's like maybe an hour 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.240 if that. Oh wow, so it's fast. It's fast when 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.760 you guys meet. Where do you guys meet? Sometime we go, 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:29.040 you have something to eat sometime, the hotel, you know, 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.400 walk in the park, you know, something like that. If 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:34.320 you weren't having the affair, how do you think you'd 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:36.400 be spending your time? What would you be doing? The 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:42.240 fellows hours, not doing much. I don't have many friends. 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.600 I don't go out much until I met him. You know, 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.960 I have something to do now to appropy my time. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.240 What kind of boundaries did you guys set early on? 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:56.880 You know, don't get involved in my marriage. I won't 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:00.640 get involved in yours. You no phone calls my husband, 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:02.880 no poem you know what I'm saying. If we have 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.600 an argument or something like that, you're not going to 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.280 do that. But a good thing about it is we're 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.120 not jealous. You know, I'm not jealous of his relationship, 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.160 is not jealous of minds because it's something that was 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.440 there before me. You know, he was married to a 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:21.560 way before me. So right, that's something I have no 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:28.440 control over. Basically, Sabrina told me that her affair with 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.240 Randy has been going on for eight years now. Eight years. 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:36.000 That's longer than my marriage, and it's a long time 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:40.120 to see one another multiple times a week. I had 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.200 to ask her one thing. I had to ask if, 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.880 after all of that time together, all of these years together, 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:56.600 if she's fallen in love with him. I would say yes, yes, 0:16:57.800 --> 0:16:59.800 Do you still love your husband? Oh? Yes, I love 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:03.760 my I will always love my husband always. How do 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:09.440 you reconcile that in your head? That's a good question, 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:16.359 That's a good question. That's something I will have to 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:20.639 think about. Do you think your marriage is better now 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.680 that you've given yourself this one thing? I will say 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:29.359 yes because I'm able to tolerate my husband not paying 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.439 me any attention, you know, because if he doesn't, the 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:39.800 other man will. So I'm like balanced, right. But recently, 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.680 the guilt that Sabrina has felt juggling two different men 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:47.399 has made her feel nervous, and she's been thinking a 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:51.040 lot about the consequences of her affair and what would 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:58.280 happen if her husband ever found out. It's a tricky, 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:03.399 tricky situation because if my husband found out that I 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.359 was having an affair, and say, like he left me, 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.800 I feel like I would probably be out by myself, 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.879 you know, I would be alone because I don't feel 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:19.920 that my lover would leave his wife. I don't know. 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:25.520 I don't know, and vice versa. If his wife found 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:29.399 out that he was having an affair, I don't know 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:33.360 if I would leave my husband for him, right. So 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:39.240 it's tricky, scary and tricky at the same time. So yeah, 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:44.080 and that I think about that situation a lot. Yeah, 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.000 It's gotten to the point where I'm feeling like, now 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.639 I don't know, maybe I should end this, you know, 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:55.280 because of that situation, because I don't think I would 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.600 leave if his wife left him, he would want to 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.520 be with me, but I don't know if i'd be 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.040 able to leave my husband to be with him, right 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.600 and vice versa. You guys also don't know if you 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:12.800 would be compatible in the real world. In the real world, Yes, yes, yes, 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.879 because now it's basically just having fun or whatever you 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.560 want to call it. But yeah, I think about that 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:23.439 situation a lot. Do you feel guilty, Yeah, I feel guilty. 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.840 I feel guilty, and sometimes I feel like I might 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:32.520 wind up being alone, you know, do all of this. Yeah, 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:36.960 so you know, you know, like they say karma, right, 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.800 So I might wind up being alone in the whole situation, 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:46.480 without my husband, without my lover, you know, without So 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:51.359 it's just scary and that could be that seems like 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.520 it could be terrifying. Yeah, and that could potentially happen 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.960 if your husband did find out about the affair. Are 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.879 you worried that you would be alone? But then also, 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:09.600 you know, financially unstable or just unstable generally, Yes, I 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.800 think about that all the time. Yeah, I probably would 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.560 be financially unstable, but I will be able to make 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:22.520 it too. Yes. Do you ever think about are there 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:24.840 any things that you'd dream that you could do with Randy? Like, 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:26.760 do you ever think I'd love to go on vacation 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:28.560 with Randy. I'd love to be able to do this 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.040 thing that we can't do that's impossible for us to do. 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:36.040 I would love to do that, but I know it's impossible, 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:38.800 So I don't even think about it because right now 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:44.119 it's not possible. We both know that it's not possible. 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.760 We just have what we have and that's just have 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.199 to be enough for now until we decide if you 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:55.439 want to be together and leave our spouses. But we 0:20:55.520 --> 0:21:00.920 haven't gotten there yet, so we just in the in 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:04.400 the moment, in a moment, as I would say, there's 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.119 something kind of beautiful about being in the moment, Yes, 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:13.000 in a moment. Next up, we'll be talking to a 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.760 woman who doesn't just see her affair as a step 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:19.199 in prioritizing her own emotional well being after having a child. 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:24.280 It also became something so much more. It actually became 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:28.320 an important part of her self care. So can an 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.920 affair be a form of self care? That is all 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:36.480 on next week's episode, This is She Wants More. I'm 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:40.719 your host Joe Piazza. She Wants More was inspired by 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:44.600 the book A Passion for More by Susan Shapiro Bearish. 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.240 It was adapted for audio by executive producers Merrill Poster, 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:52.840 Kara Pfeiffer, and Susan Shapiro Parish. She Wants More is 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:57.159 hosted and reported by me Joe Piazza. Jennifer Bassett is 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:00.840 our lead producer and story editor. Our sound design is 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:04.600 by Jessica crencich Our theme was composed by Anna Stumpf 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:08.920 and Hamilton Lighthouser. Our executive producers for iHeart are Ally 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:13.000 Perry and Nikki Etour. She Wants More as a production 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:16.879 of iHeart Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:20.639 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:21.399 favorite shows.