1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: I didn't want it to feel like a date, but 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: it was a date. A married woman on a date. 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: It didn't feel good at all, but it felt good 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: at you know, it's at the same time. If you 5 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: understand what I'm trying to say, that voice you just 6 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: heard was Sabrina. Sabrina's in her fifties, she doesn't have children, 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: and she's been married for twenty years. Unlike our last guest, 8 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: Sabrina didn't initiate her affair because she wasn't feeling fulfilled sexually. 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: She wasn't really feeling much of anything except loneliness. Her 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: affair just sort of happened, and when it did, she 11 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: found it filled a different need for her. It fulfilled 12 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: something that she'd been missing with her husband for a 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: pretty long time. I don't know if I was looking 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: for another relationship. I think I just was looking for 15 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: someone to talk to. My husband's always at work. You know, 16 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: we have no children, so I think I was just 17 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: really looking for a good friend. But it just happened 18 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: to turn into something more than friends. The man Sabrina 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: started cheating on her husband with made her feel good again, 20 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: like she had a real companion, one who was actually 21 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 1: invested in her. He tells me that I'm his best friend, 22 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: and that just melts my heart. You know, not just 23 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: oh you're my lover, You're just someone that I'm sleeping with. 24 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: He tells me, I'm glad that I've met you. That 25 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: must feel really nice to be seen like that. Yeah. Yeah, 26 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: and I feel like he's my best friend as well. 27 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Piazza and you're listening to She Wants More, 28 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: the podcast where real women talk openly and honestly about 29 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: the extra marital affairs that have completely changed their lives. Sabrina. 30 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: That's not her real name, by the way. We changed 31 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: it to protect her identity. Sabrina hasn't always been lonely 32 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: in her marriage. When Sabrina and her husband first got together, 33 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: he was obsessed with her. My husband even has a 34 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: tattoo with my name on it, which he did on 35 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: my birthday, I believe, when I was turning thirty five. 36 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: He surprised me. He came home one day with the 37 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: tattoo on his neck. Did you like the tattoo? Yeah, 38 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. I love it. That 39 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: is love. Yes, I've never met anyone like him before, 40 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: you know, And she was pretty obsessed with him too. 41 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: How'd your husband proposed? I'm just actually I proposed to him. 42 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: I asked him to marry me. Okay, I think you 43 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:45,839 Speaker 1: were at his parents' house, I believe, or his sister's house. Yeah. Yeah, 44 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: and I asked him to marry me. So in the 45 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: beginning you were quite smitten. You said I want you. 46 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: I choose you. Yes, yes, And we were together ten years. 47 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: You know, we were married, so I said it, you know, 48 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: it's time to get married. But that was more than 49 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: twenty years ago. And after two decades with one person, 50 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: things change. People change. I've been happy up until I 51 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: would say, maybe fifteen years into the marriage. You know, 52 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: I love my husband, but you know, it's just that 53 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: we are not very compatible anymore. He's much older than me. 54 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: He's ten years older than me. Okay, so make a 55 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: big difference. Yes, So he's not as active as I am. 56 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: He likes to just you know, stay home and you know, 57 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: do the boring stuff, the boring stuff. So he's not 58 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: very active anymore like he used to be. He's not old, 59 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: but you know, he just doesn't enjoy certain things anymore. 60 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: Sabrina was lonely. Her husband worked all the time. They 61 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: had no kids, and she was home all day because 62 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: of an injury that forced her to take a leave 63 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: from more And it was ultimately that loneliness, not a 64 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: desire for sex or passion, that let her to have 65 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: an affair in the first place. Loneliness is currently a 66 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: public health epidemic. That's psychiatrist doctor Gail Salts. We heard 67 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: from her in the last episode. I called Gail because 68 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: I want to know a little bit more about how 69 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: debilitating loneliness can truly be and what that loneliness can 70 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: lead you to do. It is a huge cause of depression, 71 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: anxiety disorders, health, physical health issues, and it is growing, 72 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: and not in the elderly population where you think it 73 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: would be growing, but all manner of ages. And it 74 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: is a horrendous and desperate feeling, and so it will 75 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: drive people to do all kinds of things to feel 76 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: less lonely. I asked Gail if she'd seen people turn 77 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: to extra marital affairs to stave off their loneliness, even 78 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: when they're married and they think they shouldn't be lonely 79 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: because they've got their person already. Sometimes it's worth being 80 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: with somebody that you feel alone with than being alone. 81 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: Just because you're legally married to someone doesn't mean that 82 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: you feel intimately connected to them and you can really 83 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: talk about your emotional state. And so one could definitely 84 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: feel very lonely in a marriage and be wishing for 85 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: and therefore actually making them vulnerable to who might come 86 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: along that does listen to them and does make them 87 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: feel heard and understood and empathized with and therefore really 88 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: connected to. That definitely would easily be the beginning of 89 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: at least an emotional affair and then possibly evolve into 90 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:04,679 Speaker 1: a physical affair. Sabrina never imagined being a cheater throughout 91 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: my years my relationships. You know, I never cheated. I 92 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: was always just me and that person in the relationship. 93 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: You know, I didn't see any to cheat, right, If 94 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: you have to cheat, then you know you should just 95 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: not be any relationship. That's how I felt back then. 96 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: But now as I'm getting older, it just changed. My 97 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: feelings just changed. As you get older, you need, you know, 98 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: any more compassion in your life. So I didn't particularly 99 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: want something different, but I did want the attention. He 100 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: wasn't giving me any attention, and the affair, it it 101 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: just sort of happened. Nothing that I was set out 102 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: to do, plan to do, it just sort of happened. 103 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: And I gotta say, I get it. I understand why 104 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: this situation was so appealing to Sabrina. Before this, she 105 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: felt invisible when she first met her husband. He was 106 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 1: the I who was obsessed with her, the guy who 107 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: tattooed her name on his neck. And then suddenly he 108 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: was coming home from being at work all day and 109 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: she felt like he didn't even see her. After the break, 110 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: we'll hear more of Sabrina's story, starting with how she 111 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,239 Speaker 1: met the man who'd changed her life and everything that happened. Next, 112 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: we're back with she once more. So Sabrina is out 113 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: at this club for her friend's birthday and a guy 114 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: comes along. He's handsome, and he's paying a lot of 115 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:42,239 Speaker 1: attention to her. He's younger than her husband, younger even 116 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: than her. He started talking and you just connected. He 117 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: gave me his number. But the thing is he is 118 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: also mad. Should we give him a name or should 119 00:07:55,040 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: we call him Randy? Randy? Okay? When you and Randy first, 120 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: was there a spark? Were you flirting? He was flirting? 121 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: He was very good at flirting. We just had good 122 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: conversation and you talk for hours, and you know, I've 123 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: had a lot of things in common. It felt kind 124 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: of strange, knowing I'm married talking with another man, flirting 125 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: with another man. So it was kind of strange but fun, 126 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: I would say. And so he gave you his number, Yeah, 127 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: because I don't want to give him my number, you know, right, right, 128 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: And so the ball was in your court. Yeah, basically. Yes, 129 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: Actually I waited two weeks before I called him. You know, 130 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: I had to sit and think what am I doing? 131 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, I waited, waited two weeks before I called him. 132 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: Sabrina was pretty nervous when she first called, and she 133 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: didn't really think that anything was gonna come with us. 134 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: She thought it might just be a dinner, a chance 135 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: to hang out with someone new, and that is it. 136 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: I didn't want it to feel like a date, but 137 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: it was actually a date, you know, so a married 138 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: woman on a date. It didn't feel good at all, 139 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: but it felt good, you know. It's at the same time, 140 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: if you understand what I'm what I'm trying to say, Um, yeah, 141 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was weird. It was weird, 142 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: definitely weird. Did he think it was weird. Um, I 143 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,599 Speaker 1: don't think so. No, No, he's a man, you know, 144 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: man they are Yeah, they they don't care, no care. 145 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: And when you went on the date, what did you 146 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: think would happen? Did you think, all right, this will 147 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: just be dinner. Um, yeah, I thought it would just 148 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: be dinner. Maybe I wouldn't see him for a while, 149 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: you know, we would be friends. That's what I thought 150 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: at first. Did you really think that? Yes? But even 151 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: though Sabrina didn't intend to see Randy again, the attention 152 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 1: that he gave her was so nice and put a 153 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: little spring in her stuff, and it gave her something 154 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: to look forward to. It was very exciting. Yeah. Yeah, 155 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: it felt like something new and fresh. I just felt free. 156 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: It's hard to explain. And there was a thrill in 157 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: the affair too, in the secrecy of it. Sabrina got 158 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: a burner phone to arrange her meetings, and she started 159 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: taking better care of her appearance, of herself and anticipation 160 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: of seeing Randy again. We have se phones, you know, 161 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: I have more than one cell phone. Then my husband 162 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: doesn't know about so we text on those. Okay, okay, 163 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: that part of it must be kind of exciting too, Yes, 164 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: it's very exciting. Yes, how is the sex different? It 165 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: was different because he was Italian, that that was different, 166 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: but just you know the fact that he was not 167 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: African American me. So he was my first Italian man 168 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: I've ever been with, you know, sexually, first, my god, 169 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: first first man I cheated with first, first, everything first. 170 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: For her, unlike for some of our other guests, the 171 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: affair really seemed to be more about the attention and 172 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: the friendship with Randy and how our time with him 173 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 1: made her feel better about herself and less lonely. Didn't 174 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: feel like someone was seeing you in a new way too, 175 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: because I feel like when yeah, yes, someone for such 176 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: a long time, it's like you see me, it's the 177 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: same way every day. Yes, definitely to have someone notice me. 178 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: You know, my husband notices me, but like I said, 179 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: things sometimes they get old. We don't really have anything 180 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: really keeping us together, right, you know, it just felt 181 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: good to have someone noticed me and send to my needs, 182 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: listen to me. I just felt like it's something that 183 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: I needed, something I deserved. So I said, you know, 184 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: why not? Why not? I just said, let me take 185 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: care of me. There's something really powerful in that position 186 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: and saying I'm going to do this one thing just 187 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: for myself. Yeah, so I can be happy. I want 188 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: to be happy. Did you feel like you've been taking 189 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: care of just your husband for a long time? Ah, yes, 190 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: very much so, and so to take care of yourself 191 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: must have felt really different. Yeah, definitely. It's not that 192 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: people say, oh, yeah, that was a great thing to do, 193 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: was to have an affair. It's more that when people 194 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: are not talking about what they need to talk about, 195 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: it comes out in their behaviors. That's doctor Laura Gottlieb. 196 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: She's a psychotherapist, an author, and a podcast host. She 197 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: wrote a best selling book that I Love, Love Love 198 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: called Maybe You Should to Someone. And So, if somebody 199 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: is using an affair to say I didn't know how 200 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: to take care of myself, I felt uncared for in 201 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: my relationship and I didn't know any other way to 202 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: take care of my needs, and then it gets the 203 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: couple talking about the things that they needed to talk 204 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: about long before that affair happened. It can have a 205 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: really positive effect on the couple going forward if both 206 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: people are invested in having those conversations and repairing the 207 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: marriage or the relationship. And then also creating something new 208 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: that wasn't there before. But affairs are incredibly painful. There's 209 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: just no way around that. I don't think that anybody 210 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: goes around recommending that somebody have an affair. After the break, 211 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: we'll hear more of Sabrina's story, including if she ever 212 00:13:54,160 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: thinks she'll leave her husband. We're back with she wants more. 213 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: I asked Sabrina what it was exactly about Randy that 214 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: made her feel so good, so much more alive. He's 215 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: very touchy, feeling, but very attentive, you know as well, 216 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: very attentive. He's just a good man. It's a good man, 217 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: good person. For the two of them, it wasn't just 218 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: about sex. It was also about companionship and connection, and 219 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: both of them knew that they wanted to keep seeing 220 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: one another, but they had to figure out how that 221 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: was going to work. Randy was married too, but unlike Sabrina, 222 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: he had kids. The good thing was that Randy worked nights, 223 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: which left his days mostly free, and that's when Sabrina 224 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: happened to be available. But from the very start they 225 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: knew they had to be careful. We don't meet on weekends, 226 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: you know, my husban minutes at home on the weekends. 227 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: We schedule certain days, certain times every week just to 228 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: be safe because he has children, so his schedule is 229 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: kind of more booked than mind. So we don't have 230 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: much time to spend together. That's like maybe an hour 231 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: if that. Oh wow, so it's fast. It's fast when 232 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: you guys meet. Where do you guys meet? Sometime we go, 233 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: you have something to eat sometime, the hotel, you know, 234 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: walk in the park, you know, something like that. If 235 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: you weren't having the affair, how do you think you'd 236 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: be spending your time? What would you be doing? The 237 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: fellows hours, not doing much. I don't have many friends. 238 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: I don't go out much until I met him. You know, 239 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: I have something to do now to appropy my time. 240 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: What kind of boundaries did you guys set early on? 241 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: You know, don't get involved in my marriage. I won't 242 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: get involved in yours. You no phone calls my husband, 243 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: no poem you know what I'm saying. If we have 244 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: an argument or something like that, you're not going to 245 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: do that. But a good thing about it is we're 246 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: not jealous. You know, I'm not jealous of his relationship, 247 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: is not jealous of minds because it's something that was 248 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: there before me. You know, he was married to a 249 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: way before me. So right, that's something I have no 250 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: control over. Basically, Sabrina told me that her affair with 251 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: Randy has been going on for eight years now. Eight years. 252 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: That's longer than my marriage, and it's a long time 253 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: to see one another multiple times a week. I had 254 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: to ask her one thing. I had to ask if, 255 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: after all of that time together, all of these years together, 256 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: if she's fallen in love with him. I would say yes, yes, 257 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: Do you still love your husband? Oh? Yes, I love 258 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: my I will always love my husband always. How do 259 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: you reconcile that in your head? That's a good question, 260 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: That's a good question. That's something I will have to 261 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: think about. Do you think your marriage is better now 262 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: that you've given yourself this one thing? I will say 263 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: yes because I'm able to tolerate my husband not paying 264 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 1: me any attention, you know, because if he doesn't, the 265 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: other man will. So I'm like balanced, right. But recently, 266 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: the guilt that Sabrina has felt juggling two different men 267 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: has made her feel nervous, and she's been thinking a 268 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: lot about the consequences of her affair and what would 269 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: happen if her husband ever found out. It's a tricky, 270 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: tricky situation because if my husband found out that I 271 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: was having an affair, and say, like he left me, 272 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: I feel like I would probably be out by myself, 273 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: you know, I would be alone because I don't feel 274 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: that my lover would leave his wife. I don't know. 275 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, and vice versa. If his wife found 276 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: out that he was having an affair, I don't know 277 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 1: if I would leave my husband for him, right. So 278 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: it's tricky, scary and tricky at the same time. So yeah, 279 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: and that I think about that situation a lot. Yeah, 280 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: It's gotten to the point where I'm feeling like, now 281 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I should end this, you know, 282 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: because of that situation, because I don't think I would 283 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: leave if his wife left him, he would want to 284 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: be with me, but I don't know if i'd be 285 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: able to leave my husband to be with him, right 286 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: and vice versa. You guys also don't know if you 287 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: would be compatible in the real world. In the real world, Yes, yes, yes, 288 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: because now it's basically just having fun or whatever you 289 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: want to call it. But yeah, I think about that 290 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: situation a lot. Do you feel guilty, Yeah, I feel guilty. 291 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: I feel guilty, and sometimes I feel like I might 292 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: wind up being alone, you know, do all of this. Yeah, 293 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: so you know, you know, like they say karma, right, 294 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: So I might wind up being alone in the whole situation, 295 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: without my husband, without my lover, you know, without So 296 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: it's just scary and that could be that seems like 297 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: it could be terrifying. Yeah, and that could potentially happen 298 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: if your husband did find out about the affair. Are 299 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: you worried that you would be alone? But then also, 300 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: you know, financially unstable or just unstable generally, Yes, I 301 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: think about that all the time. Yeah, I probably would 302 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: be financially unstable, but I will be able to make 303 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: it too. Yes. Do you ever think about are there 304 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: any things that you'd dream that you could do with Randy? Like, 305 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: do you ever think I'd love to go on vacation 306 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: with Randy. I'd love to be able to do this 307 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: thing that we can't do that's impossible for us to do. 308 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: I would love to do that, but I know it's impossible, 309 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: So I don't even think about it because right now 310 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: it's not possible. We both know that it's not possible. 311 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: We just have what we have and that's just have 312 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: to be enough for now until we decide if you 313 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 1: want to be together and leave our spouses. But we 314 00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: haven't gotten there yet, so we just in the in 315 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: the moment, in a moment, as I would say, there's 316 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: something kind of beautiful about being in the moment, Yes, 317 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: in a moment. Next up, we'll be talking to a 318 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: woman who doesn't just see her affair as a step 319 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: in prioritizing her own emotional well being after having a child. 320 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: It also became something so much more. It actually became 321 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: an important part of her self care. So can an 322 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: affair be a form of self care? That is all 323 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: on next week's episode, This is She Wants More. I'm 324 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 1: your host Joe Piazza. She Wants More was inspired by 325 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: the book A Passion for More by Susan Shapiro Bearish. 326 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: It was adapted for audio by executive producers Merrill Poster, 327 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: Kara Pfeiffer, and Susan Shapiro Parish. She Wants More is 328 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: hosted and reported by me Joe Piazza. Jennifer Bassett is 329 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: our lead producer and story editor. Our sound design is 330 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: by Jessica crencich Our theme was composed by Anna Stumpf 331 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: and Hamilton Lighthouser. Our executive producers for iHeart are Ally 332 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: Perry and Nikki Etour. She Wants More as a production 333 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: of iHeart Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the 334 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 335 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: favorite shows.