1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Trump's former chief of staff says 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: Trump didn't realize Hitler's generals were Nazis? What did he 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: think they were? We have such a great show for 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: you today, the Mary Trump Shows. Mary Trump stops by 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: to talk about her uncle's cognitive decline. Then we'll be 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: joined by CNN's Ellie Reeve to talk about her encounters 9 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: with voters in Georgia. But first the news. 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: So Molly Trump's former chief of staff, very regarded man 11 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 2: in many circles, John Kelly, has finally decided to do 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 2: the right thing and start spilling the beans about what 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 2: mister Trump is like behind the scenes. And the kids 14 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 2: like to say, you're spilling tea when you do things 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: like this. I'd like to think he kicked the Starbucks 16 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: tea stand over in the whole place. 17 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: So I would say John Kelly has spoken before, but 18 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: he never spoken like the way he has recently. So 19 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: he basically gave Mike Schmidt from The New York Times. 20 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: He answered a bunch of questions on the record, taped. 21 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: They are on the New York Times website, and they're 22 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: worth listening to. Basically, Mike Schmidt cues him up, says 23 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: do you think Trump wants to be a dictator? And 24 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: Kelly does, in fact answer these questions in his own voice. 25 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: Now you'll remember Kelly John Kelly is a retired US 26 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: Marine Corps general. He served as White House Chief of 27 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: Staff for Donald Trump for two years from twenty seventeen 28 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: to twenty nineteen. He was also before that, he was 29 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: the United States Secretary of Homeland Security. He went to 30 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: the Naval War College. He's a very serious military guy. 31 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: This is not the kind of person who does interviews 32 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: like this unless he is really worried. And I think 33 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: that it's worth realizing that someone like this coming out 34 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,399 Speaker 1: and saying something like this at this moment is because 35 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: he didn't necessarily want to, but he knew he had to. 36 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: And The Times has done a lot of really good 37 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: reporting on this. Somehow none of it has been none 38 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: of it has made it to the front page, which 39 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: I think is really disappointing, but it is good to 40 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: see that people are covering it. Jeff Goldberg wrote about 41 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: it for The Atlantic and got into this sort of 42 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: minutia about Trump didn't know that Hitler's generals were Nazis, 43 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: and he also wanted to have the same kind of 44 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: generals that Hitler did. It's a little bit of where 45 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: is my Roy Cohen, But the idea is the same. 46 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: He would like a lawyer who would do anything for him, 47 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: he would like a general who would do anything for him. 48 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: There's also a really bleak part in it where he 49 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: says he's going to bury this woman who's in the military, 50 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: who's a general who was murdered and was Mexican, and 51 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: then he starts yelling about how he said he was 52 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: going to pay for it. He starts yelling about how 53 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: it costs sixty thousand dollars, and he says some really 54 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: racist stuff. And then her sister is now voting for 55 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: Trump and is quite upset that this story somehow might 56 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: be used against Trump. So it's not a cult exactly, 57 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: but it kind of is. John Kelly is not the 58 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: only person who believes that Donald Trump is an autocrat 59 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: and a danger Jesse can you play the clip from 60 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,959 Speaker 1: CNA sure kem Chief of Staff. 61 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 3: Kelly also said that he believed that Donald Trump fell 62 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 3: under the definition of a fascist do you also consider 63 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 3: Donald Trump to be a fascist? 64 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 4: You know, I've spoken out against lowering the civil discourse 65 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 4: in this country and personal tax and labels and stuff 66 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 4: like that. So look, I'm not going to get into 67 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 4: that type of labeling if you will, But you know, 68 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 4: John Kelly did something and he looked it up in 69 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 4: ationnaring if you if you look it up, I think 70 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 4: everybody should ask yourself does he fall into those categories? 71 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 4: And it's hard to say that he doesn't when you kind. 72 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: Of look at those terms. 73 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 4: But you know, he certainly has those inclinations, and. 74 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: I think it's something we should be worried about. Yes, 75 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: he certainly has so brave, he certainly has those inclinations. 76 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: But you know, again, for Mark Asper to say this 77 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: on CNN, these people are saying this because they are 78 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: really worried, right, Like, they don't do this lightly. This 79 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: is not like a pundit saying this. These military guys 80 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: are trained not to do stuff like this. So I 81 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: do think it's meaningful. Another thing that Harris did which 82 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: was really smart, was today at one o'clock she gave 83 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: a statement about how meaningful it was that these guys 84 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: were coming forward. Look, the Trump base. They don't care. Right, 85 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: it's baked in. They are not going to be moved 86 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: by this, but they are not going to be moved 87 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: by anything. What Harris needs is to is for the 88 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: normal people in this country to go, oh, this is 89 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: really important and to take heed that this is not 90 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: a normal election cycle and Donald Trump is not a 91 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: normal candidate. 92 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: So let's turnover to another fella that we unfortunately have 93 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 2: to discuss all the time. One Elon Musk. Governor Walls 94 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: at a recent rally described him properly as Elon's on 95 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: that stage, jumping around, skipping like a dipshit. Musk did 96 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: not like this song. 97 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: Right, we know what Musk believes now, we know that 98 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: he is quite right wing. He's gone full in on 99 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: the Trump train, giving him millions and millions of dollars 100 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: and supporting him in any way, shape or form he can. 101 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: He was incredibly mad at Walls. I mean, it's a 102 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: ridiculous thing to do, jumping on stage, but whatever. So 103 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: Musk responded to Walls on X by saying, you're going 104 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: to lose at Tim Walls, saving the American people from 105 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: the torture of hearing you for four years was worth it. 106 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: Maybe Elon Musk people relate to this nefarious South African billionaire. 107 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: I sure don't, Okay, So Jesse, I'm hoping you can 108 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: not to just clip from CNN today, but I'm hoping 109 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: you could play this tape of Christin Unu, who is 110 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: the new Hampshire governor. But he's term limited out and 111 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: he is unable to disavow Trump. So basically the interviewer 112 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: asks him, if he disavows Trump, just listen to this 113 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: fucking thing. 114 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 5: Good new comments and the new warning from Donald Trump's 115 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 5: former and longest serving Chief of Staff, Marine General John Kelly. Kelly, 116 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 5: speaking on the record in a series of interviews, just 117 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 5: out saying that Trump fits the definition of fascist and 118 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 5: also confirming Trump's affinity for Hitler and Hitler's generals. According 119 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 5: to John Kelly, I want to play for you what 120 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 5: Kelly told The New York Times overnight. 121 00:06:53,520 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 6: Bon Myers, people who are dicators said that falls into 122 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 6: the general definition of fascist. 123 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 2: More than one, you know, into some good things. 124 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: And of course. 125 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 6: If you know history, again, I think he's lacking a matter. 126 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 3: But if you know what his you know, hit was 127 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 3: all about, uh, you would be pretty. 128 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 7: Hard to make an argument that he did anything good. 129 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 5: John Kelly also spoke with The Atlantic. Kelly says that 130 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 5: he once asked Donald Trump, then President Trump, about his 131 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 5: statement that he needed generals like Hitler had. Surely you 132 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 5: can't mean Hitler's generals, Kelly asked him. Trump responded that 133 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 5: that is exactly what he meant. Yeah, yeah, Hitler's generals. 134 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 5: Joining us right now is Republican Governor of New Hampshire, 135 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 5: Governor Christen You. It's good to see you, Governor, thanks 136 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 5: for being here. Hearing that, does that change how you 137 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 5: feel about Donald Trump and your plans to vote for him? 138 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 8: Now? Look, I respect General Kelly. I think he's great, 139 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 8: and he's got a long term relationship with the president. 140 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 8: You know, when you get into these final weeks, it's. 141 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: All about it's all about results. 142 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 8: So of course you're going to get salacious things said 143 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 8: and all that, and I'm not taking away the general's 144 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 8: conversation with the former president. But at the end of 145 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 8: the day, you just what that poll that your team 146 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 8: is just looking at depends what independence, what results. They 147 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 8: don't want that kind of ultraliberal extremism. They want to 148 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 8: be told the truth. They want to get their cost 149 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 8: of living down. That's where voters are going to go. 150 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 8: So it's not just a Chris Sano thing or a 151 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 8: General Kelly thing. If you're talking to the American voters 152 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 8: out there. 153 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: The American voters want fascism, so let's give it to them. 154 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: Very brave, Kristin Unu. We should not have expected anything 155 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,719 Speaker 1: last from a Trump Sicka fan who could have not 156 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: been that way. By the way, these people are not 157 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: constitutionally mandated to go on CNN. If you can't defend 158 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: the indefense ball, you don't need to go on television. 159 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: Mary Trump is the host of The Mary Trump Show 160 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: and the author of Who Could Have Or Love You? 161 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: A family memoir? Hello Mary Trump, Hello Mulla jung Fest. 162 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,479 Speaker 1: I feel like, what's less than fumes? 163 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 6: What is? 164 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: What is two weeks to the election? It's actually thirteen days? 165 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 1: Or are we twelve days when this drops? 166 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 7: Oh yeah, uh huh yes, so yes, what is less 167 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 7: than fumes? I think it depends on your understanding about 168 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 7: energy works, because I've heard it's a big amorphous thing. 169 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 7: But yeah, I think less than fumes is existing in. 170 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:38,239 Speaker 9: An airless vacuum. 171 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: It's funny because it's like I am a NEPO baby. 172 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: You may know this, and one of the things I 173 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: truly hate is talking about my famous parent. And I 174 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: was thinking about you, and my famous parent is not 175 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: even that famous, nor is she that objectionable. And then 176 00:09:55,240 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: I'm thinking to myself, like, fucking poor Mary, she has 177 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: to be related to this guy. I'm sorry. So I 178 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: want you to know I'm sorry. 179 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 7: Well I appreciate that, especially since like I'm not even 180 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 7: an EPO baby, Like, I didn't get it from him. 181 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: Now, if anything, you got less from it. 182 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 9: He stole from me. 183 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: Yes, I was thinking about this because I was reading 184 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: something where he used to trust to pay his bills, right, 185 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: and I was like, god, damn it. I was like, 186 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: she didn't even get like, I have a nice ring, 187 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: you know. 188 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 10: I'm sorry, No, It's just it's like the funniest thing 189 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 10: that people say to me when they think they're being 190 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 10: clever and cruel, is that it's despicable that I griffed 191 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 10: off his name. 192 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 9: I'm like, first of all, it's kind my name. 193 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: Exactly e. 194 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 9: Secondly, what exactly is the grift? 195 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 7: I'm not selling anybody gold sneakers or non fundible tokens. 196 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: You just have to do two seconds on, I need 197 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: the kind of general's Hitler had. All right. 198 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 7: I know all of us have been asking this question 199 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 7: for years ago, almost a decade, but given everything that's 200 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 7: happened just in the last two weeks in terms of. 201 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 11: His obvious cognitive mind and the fact that it seems 202 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 11: like some of the psychiatric disorders he's been walking around 203 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 11: with for decades are reaching a. 204 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 7: Point, a critical point, and the disinhibition. 205 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: It's a really good point, the disinhibition. 206 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 12: Sorry, go on, yeah, and just even less comprehensible, less 207 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 12: aware of where he is or what is the appropriate 208 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 12: context in which to be, you know, calling the sitting 209 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 12: president a fat pig or the vice president shit. 210 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 9: It's all unraveling. 211 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 7: So my question has been, is there anything he can do, 212 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 7: given basically losing his mind on stage for thirty nine 213 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 7: minutes and doing it again for another twenty minutes, is 214 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 7: there anything he can do that will cause the corporate 215 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 7: media or the Republican Party to decide that it was disqualified. 216 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: So far, the. 217 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 9: Answer seems to be no. 218 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 7: And we are literally living in a time when we 219 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 7: have people who worked in his administration saying he's fascist 220 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 7: to the core, and he adores and looks up to 221 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 7: Adolf Hitler and wants his generals to be like Hitler's generals. 222 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 9: You know, It's like when I saw the. 223 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 7: Boat parade, Why that's the thing is beyond my comprehension. 224 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 7: Down in Florida, a boat full of his supporters were 225 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 7: flying swastika flags and from twenty twenty four flags, Like what. 226 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 9: Are we doing? 227 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's funny because it's like the weird thing. 228 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: And I always think of you when we talk about 229 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: mental illness, because you've worked in the field of psychology 230 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: and you really know what you're talking about as on 231 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: another level too, because that's what you do. And what 232 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: I'm struck by is it's almost as if the party 233 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: that is going along with this is almost more crazy 234 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: than the guy who's you know, just declining. 235 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 7: Yeah, well, actually they're worse because yes, you can say 236 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 7: a lot of his so called followers and a lot 237 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 7: of his sick offense within the party, there's something seriously 238 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 7: wrong with them. But then you have the people like 239 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 7: JD Vance or Mitch McConnell who are cynically taking advantage 240 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 7: of the situation. 241 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 9: And I don't want to give Donald the past. 242 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 7: He's horrible human being Most people with serious mental illnesses 243 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 7: are suffering from cognitive decline, aren't. 244 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 9: He's all of those things right. 245 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 7: But the people in the Republican Party. 246 00:13:55,360 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 9: Know what's going on, and they have not once. 247 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 7: Stepped up to put a stop to this at a time, 248 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 7: and there have been many times actually when the leadership 249 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 7: of the Republican Party actually could have stopped him, chose to. 250 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 9: Go down this road. 251 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 7: Here we are twelve days out from this election, and 252 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 7: now it just seems like they just want to drag 253 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 7: him across the finish line. So come January twentieth, twenty 254 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 7: twenty five, we're going to have the triumvirate of JD Events, 255 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 7: Peter Thiel, and Elon Musk running the country. 256 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: That's sort of what I've been been sort of shocked 257 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: by is Mitch McConnell could have said, vote to convict, 258 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: then he can't run again. Then we'll reconnect, we'll figure 259 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: it out, we'll you know, find a candidate who we 260 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: think can win. And instead Mitch McConnell was like, no, 261 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: it's too hard, Let's just let this fucking guy. And 262 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: it's kind of an amazing place to be twelve days out. 263 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: You know, we don't know anything. All we I know 264 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: is that that Harris is running this very very ambitious 265 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: campaign where she's going to swing states, and she's doing 266 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: these town halls with Liz Cheney, which I actually think 267 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: are really excellent. What do you think of them? 268 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 9: I don't know. I'm of two minds. 269 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 7: Honestly, I think it's necessary. I think that Harris has 270 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 7: to be pulling out every single stop. It's not my 271 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 7: favorite part of presidential campaigns, right. 272 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: No, I agree, and my family has been long time 273 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: no go on the Chenese. 274 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 7: Right, But this is a different kind of election, like 275 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 7: it's it's it makes sense this time around. But just 276 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 7: to be clear, like Republicans never do that with Democrats, 277 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 7: when Republicans never talk about what Democrats should be in 278 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 7: the cabinet of the Republican president. I think there's a 279 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 7: way to do it without pissing off the base. But 280 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 7: I also understand that we have there are extreme circumstances here, 281 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 7: and they do need to reach out to voters by 282 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 7: utilizing people like Liz Cheney and Adamkinzinger and all the 283 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 7: other Republicans who normally would not be people we would 284 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 7: be hanging out with at rellies. It's the gratuitous stuff 285 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 7: that matters, Like I'm not entirely sure why we need 286 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 7: to talk about Dick Cheney at all or thank him 287 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 7: for his service to America, right, because that I don't 288 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 7: think that helps your case, Like that's not necessary to 289 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 7: talk to Republican voters, and all that does is alienate Democrats. 290 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do think though, what is important 291 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: is that this is not normal. This is not a 292 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: normal election, and this is one of these moments where 293 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: you may not like a lot of the things that 294 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: she stands for, though she's very centrist. You need to 295 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: do this because otherwise the other guy's nots Yep. 296 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 7: This is the thing, Molly that definitely makes my brain 297 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 7: short circuit. 298 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 9: We could say this, Kala Harris. 299 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 7: You may not agree in every single one of her positions, 300 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 7: but Donald Trump is out of his mind, or Donald 301 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 7: Trump is in serious cognitive decline. Or Donald Trump is 302 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 7: a fascist, donald Trump is a trader, donald Trump is 303 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 7: a convicted felon, Donald Trump is an adjudicated rapist. Any 304 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 7: one of those things should be enough, yes, and yet 305 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 7: all of them together are not enough to get us 306 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 7: more than within the margin of error. 307 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 9: What seriously is wrong with us. 308 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: It's not good. It's not good. I don't want to 309 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: get depressed because there's a lot of really interesting stuff 310 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: happening right now. I mean, I think of like in Nebraska, 311 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: you have the Senate candidate who is an independent who 312 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: could win. 313 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 9: Yeah, listen, I think there's a lot to be hopeful about. 314 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 9: It just means that we can't forget. 315 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 7: Where we are now after we win. We cannot do 316 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 7: that anymore. There's so much work to be done, and 317 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 7: I think that should incentivize people. Hey, the more power 318 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 7: Democrats have, the larger margin, the more we can start 319 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 7: doing the real work instead of continuing to fight that 320 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 7: rearguard action against fascism, which is what we've been doing 321 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 7: for eight years now. 322 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 9: Even when we've. 323 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,479 Speaker 7: Been in power, we haven't been able to do as 324 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 7: much as we might have otherwise because we're continuing to 325 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 7: deal with the fact that Donald Trump is the leader 326 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 7: the Republican Party and the Republican Party supports him one. So, 327 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 7: you know, by by focusing on what we could do 328 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 7: if that weren't the burden, that should motivate us. 329 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: It's so true, and there are like things the government 330 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: could do. I mean, I think about climate change, which 331 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: is like this absolutely existential crisis heading our way at 332 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: a faster clip than any of us had possibly dreamed, 333 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: including you know, scientists for whom they had been worried 334 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: about climate change that you know, they're shocked at how 335 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: much worse it is, and we're just not addressing it 336 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: because we're so busy with the terrifying spread of authoritarianism. 337 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 7: Yeah, and you know, how do you focus on that 338 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 7: message when everything else feels like. 339 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 9: A crisis on a day to day basis. 340 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 7: It's also like, climate change is honestly something that I 341 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 7: can't pay attention to because it freaks me out so much. Yeah, 342 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 7: but it's an issue that shockingly has not been at 343 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 7: the forefront of our politics, and the fact that it 344 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 7: actually the biggest issue is that it has been made political. 345 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 7: And this is another instance in which the Republicans drive 346 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 7: the narrative. Why do Democrats act like, Yeah, immigration is 347 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 7: one of the two most important issues. 348 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 9: What why give Republicans. 349 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 7: That much power to shape how we talk about this 350 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 7: country and the future of this country? 351 00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 9: And I feel like. 352 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 7: That that's kind of one of the things that's happened 353 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 7: with climate change. 354 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's for sure true and if anything has 355 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: ever really shown the platebook for climate change, it's COVID. Right. 356 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: I was sure when COVID came that Republicans would be like, Wow, 357 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: this is serious. People are dying, Our people are dying. 358 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: We have to take this seriously. And instead it was like, no, 359 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: now it was not real. 360 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 7: Yeah, and actually I don't like giving Donald's credit for anything. 361 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 7: Any other Republican who ran to be the nominee in 362 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 7: twenty whatever it was sixteen would have handled COVID like 363 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 7: any Democrat except Donald Ryan. 364 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: No, it's true, it's so bad. It's so bad. I mean, 365 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: we really are in the worst possible timeline. 366 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 9: It feels that way. 367 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 7: I mean, obviously we're not in terms of our day 368 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 7: to day lives. People are getting put into caps yet 369 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 7: and et cetera. However, we are time limited here by 370 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 7: the as you put it, the existential crisis of climate change. 371 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 9: We don't have. 372 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 7: Time to turn this thing around if the worst case 373 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 7: scenario happens on have ever fit? 374 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, we absolutely don't. And in fact, that's where we 375 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: are right now, right, is that there is a limited 376 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: window for climate We are seeing it happen in front 377 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: of us. And if Donald Trump gets back in office, 378 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 1: we will have missed the window, which is fine if 379 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: you don't want to live on Earth, but bad if 380 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: you want to live on Earth. 381 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm a I want to live. 382 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 7: On birth person, right, So sat that MASI? 383 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you. 384 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 9: Know, I don't know. 385 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 7: Maybe maybe you know, Musk has convinced a lot of 386 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 7: people that Mars will be an option. 387 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 9: I don't know. 388 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it makes a lot of sense. 389 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 9: Yeah, the dunning Kirger effective. Actually right there. 390 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: It's unbelievable because I before Elon Musk got on the internet, 391 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: I was like, this guy is amazing, you know, before 392 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: he started tweeting, I was like he's really smart and 393 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: these people and we're really And then now I'm like nope, no, no, no, 394 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: I was like nope. 395 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 7: And it's just a perfect storm of heart horrible that 396 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 7: the most powerful, richest, most privileged people who have the 397 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 7: most access to our data are also the biggest fucking 398 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 7: morons on the planet. 399 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 400 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 9: Not to put peop find a point on it. 401 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: No, no, I think that's a very fair assessment as 402 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: to where we are in this moment. And I might 403 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: add just unbelievably depressing. I am impressed with Kelly coming out. 404 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: I am impressed with these generals, you know, their whole careers, 405 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: they're told never to be political, and they're told never 406 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: to do this kind of thing. So I do understand 407 00:22:58,520 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: what a big deal it is. 408 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 9: Yeah, it is. But also I would suggest it is 409 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 9: not political. 410 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: Right, No, exactly. That's a really good point. 411 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 9: Yeah. 412 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 7: So, and also I think that the timing is good, yes, gone, no, 413 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 7: just because it's not going to be one of those 414 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 7: things that gets baked in, like we're constantly told, oh, 415 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 7: Donald's is a rapist. 416 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 9: Yeah, it's baked. He lies all the time. Yeah, nobody cares, 417 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 9: it's baked it. Well, hopefully the fascism Hitler thing will 418 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 9: kind of like resonate a little bit. 419 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 7: I don't know, I haven't seen it on the front 420 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 7: page of the paper, but. 421 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, and I think that as we're just 422 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: talking about this, we are in a moment that hopefully 423 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: will be the lowest moment and that from here will 424 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: all be up. 425 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 9: Well. The good news is that again, if we win 426 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 9: Donald's seventy eight, he cannot just like because we're all mortal, 427 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 9: you know. 428 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 7: He cannot continue to be the center of the Republican universe. 429 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 7: It just it's untenable simply by virtue of his age 430 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 7: and what appears to be his declining health. 431 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 9: I mean the fact that, I mean, I know what the. 432 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 7: Excuse is, but the fact that he's not playing golf 433 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 7: to me as a red flag. Yeah, I think it's 434 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 7: an indication of what might just be going on. 435 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: And the disinhibition in the things you were talking about before, 436 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: where he's talking about Arnold Palmer's penis, Like, we didn't 437 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: see that in twenty sixteen. 438 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 9: We didn't see that in twenty twenty. 439 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 440 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it would be useful if more people 441 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 7: kind of did the comparent contrast. You know, they did 442 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 7: it by in twenty four hours a day. Why don't 443 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 7: we do it with Donald Trump? Because the differences are 444 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 7: even starker. 445 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 9: And there's also a difference between. 446 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 7: You know, getting a little old and rambly and slower 447 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 7: and you know, starting to talk about rounding up millions 448 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 7: of people and just having the most bizarre conversations about 449 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 7: dead golfers and not knowing where you are for thirty 450 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 7: nine minutes while you try to remember how to spell ymca. 451 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 7: You know, it's clearly a much more dangerous kind of 452 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 7: decline A neurologist said this, I wish I could remember 453 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 7: who it was. Joe Biden is aging, Donald Trump is dementing. 454 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, dementing is a really good word, and I think 455 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: disinhibition is the watch word, you know, Mary Trump, Thank. 456 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 9: You, Thanks Molly, this is great to talk to you. 457 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: Are you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how 458 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: awful Trump's second term could be? Well, so are we, 459 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: which is why we teamed up with iHeart to make 460 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: a limited series with the experts on what a disaster 461 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five would be for America's future. Right now, 462 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: we have just released the final episode of this five 463 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: episode series. They're all available by looking up Molly John 464 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: Fast Project twenty twenty five on YouTube, and if you 465 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: are more of a podcast person and not say a YouTuber, 466 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: you can hit play and put your phone in the 467 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: lock screen and it will play back just like a broadcast. 468 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: All five episodes are online now. We need to educate 469 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: Americans on what Trump's second term would or could do 470 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: to this country, so please watch it and spread the word. 471 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: Ellie Reeve is a correspondent for CNN and the author 472 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: of black Pill. Welcome to Fast Politics. Sally us. 473 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:30,239 Speaker 13: Thanks for having me. 474 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: I want you to talk first about Black Pill and 475 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: the book you wrote, and a little bit about sort 476 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: of what your thesis was and how you got there. 477 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 13: So it's a flick us about how all of this 478 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 13: Internet insanity that seems to a simbarole and unimportant became 479 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 13: at the center of American politics. You know, I had 480 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 13: this kind of epiphany on January sixth. I'm standing by 481 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 13: the White House watching Groody Juliani said, we're gonna have 482 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 13: trial by combat, and there's a guy in front of 483 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 13: me in his fifties wearing a Pepe of the Frog shirt. 484 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 13: And you know, it had been years of teenage internet 485 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 13: fascist like tweeting pepees at me, and now it's on 486 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 13: this guy and he doesn't even know where it came from. 487 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 13: The name black Pill is this kind of it's a sensibility, 488 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 13: it's a feeling, a vibe. It's a gleeful nihilism that 489 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 13: everything around you is hopelessly corrupt and it's going to collapse, 490 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 13: and you should hasten the collapse of society because what 491 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 13: comes next will be better. And it's a take on 492 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,239 Speaker 13: Red Pill, which most people are familiar with, which it 493 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 13: generally refers to taking on right wing ideas, sometimes white nationalists, 494 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 13: sometimes just kind of pro Trump. 495 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: So explain to us how that world became the Rudy 496 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,479 Speaker 1: Giuliani on January sixth world. 497 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 13: Yeah, it was a slow and steady process. So it 498 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 13: begins with this guy, Frederick Brennan, who has a teenager 499 00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 13: Oh I know. 500 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: Him, Yeah, he yes, our listeners won't know who he is, 501 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: so explain who he is. 502 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 13: So in twenty thirteen, he is a brilliant but very 503 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 13: angry young man. He's nineteen. He has brittle bone disease 504 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 13: that makes him about three feet tall, and he's very fragile. 505 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 13: His broad's break really easily, and he's had a really 506 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 13: rough life. Okay, he has a reason to be angry, 507 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 13: but that's taken him into the world of in cells, 508 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 13: which they believe that some men are so ugly or 509 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 13: unlovable that no woman will ever have a relationship with them, 510 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 13: and they become really embittered. And this might seem silly, 511 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 13: but it's produced multiple mass shooters. 512 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: Right right, No, it's the in cell culture, right. 513 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 13: Yes, though he created a takeoff from four chan called 514 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 13: eight chan that would be ultimate free speech. The only 515 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 13: thing that would not be allowed would be what's illegal 516 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 13: in the United States. And he had this idea that 517 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 13: this would bring about, you know, this frothy marketplace of 518 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 13: ideas with great ideas rising to the top. But no, 519 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 13: only the worst ideas became dominant, and that was white supremacist, 520 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 13: great replacement, that kind of stuff. And then it became 521 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 13: the home of q andon. Qnon was actually kicked off 522 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 13: for Chan, and once it became the platform for qnon, 523 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 13: it becomes a destination for baby boomers who are obsessed 524 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 13: with this conspiracy theory. But it also is a place 525 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 13: for other bad actors to target those boomers and try 526 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 13: to accept them with other more radical ideas like white nationalism. 527 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 13: And it's on that message board that QAnon takes off 528 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 13: into this like quasi religious movement that fuels to stop 529 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 13: the steal movement. 530 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: So let's talk about what happens next, hm, q Andon, 531 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: we end up in QAnon Ultimately sort of they lose 532 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: interest in right and keep going with that. Talk to 533 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: us about where QAnon goes. 534 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 13: Qnon kind of fades away in part because of what 535 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 13: these grand predictions don't come true. Is not an apocalyptic 536 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 13: woman On June six, where Trump stays in office. There's 537 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 13: a series of other events where Trump's supposed to step 538 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 13: in again and it doesn't happen again. Further, the people 539 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 13: who own the site that came after Hm e Kun, 540 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 13: essentially through some mistakes in the way they authenticated QAnon posts, 541 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 13: they reveal that the owner, Jim Watkins, fundamentally just controls QAnon, 542 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 13: and so that strips away the illusion that the person 543 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 13: q who has been posting is this like godlike person 544 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 13: deep within the government with a high level security clearance. 545 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 13: But that stuff's not necessary anymore. There's it's all like 546 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 13: cult a personality around from a President Trump. Further, it 547 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 13: doesn't need to be anonymous anymore. There are plenty people 548 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 13: who are willing to say this with their real names 549 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 13: and their real faces on Twitter and elsewhere. Ideas that 550 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 13: were only on the margins that you could only say 551 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 13: hidden behind Pepe avatar. 552 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: Right now, Donald Trump says them out loud. So you 553 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: don't need it. 554 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 13: Donald Trump says them. Tucker Carlson says it. Elon of 555 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 13: Musk get least interacts with it. 556 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: Is that sort of the thread of how January sixth happened? 557 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: And is it sort of what the political movement of 558 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: trump Ism is now. 559 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 9: Yeah. 560 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 13: So I saw this play out twice Charlotte'svilla January sixth, 561 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 13: where people who'd gotten pulled into this world. You know, 562 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 13: I went into their chat rooms where they thought they 563 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 13: were only talking to themselves. People pulled it into this world. 564 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 13: They're posting the same propaganda and comments and memes over 565 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 13: and over and over and over, and they feel like 566 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 13: they have mass momentum. They feel like they're getting stronger. 567 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 13: They feel like they're finally meeting their real friends who 568 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 13: really get it. Really they don't actually know each other, 569 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 13: and it builds and builds and builds towards this giant 570 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 13: in person event where they all get to see each 571 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 13: other people they've only known online, and there's supposed to 572 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 13: be some confrontation with the left, and that's how they 573 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 13: prepare themselves for violence. They talk about how they'll have 574 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 13: to do, what kind of self defense they'll have to 575 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 13: do to defend themselves from the depraved leftists. You know, 576 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 13: even if on January sixth, no leftists show up, you know, 577 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 13: they're end up battling police, not anti Ema. So that 578 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 13: energy happened twice. Now these days, the alt right, the 579 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 13: people behind Charlotte'sville. They're hosting these like hours long podcasts 580 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 13: where they're asking themselves, why weren't we the ones? Why 581 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 13: weren't we the guys behind Trump? We are the ones 582 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 13: who would have defended American civilization instead of what the 583 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 13: alt right sees is, you know, the magatypes like your 584 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 13: Tim Pools, they were called the alt light for a while. 585 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 13: They see those people as not as smart, not as effective. 586 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 13: But I think the lesson that many on the fire 587 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 13: right learn from Charlottesville is you can't go full Loancy 588 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 13: if you go on Hitler, Hiland, Swasika waiting, Like Americans 589 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 13: think that's weird. Even Americans who might have a little 590 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 13: bit of racial bias, you know, like they still think 591 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 13: that's weird. But if you do a lot of those 592 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 13: same authoritarian ideas behind the American flag, a lot more 593 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 13: people will sign up for it. 594 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's talk about what you're seeing right now 595 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: on the ground. You're talking to voters. Where are you 596 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: talking to voters and what is it looking like. 597 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 13: I've been talking to voters a lot in Georgia lately. 598 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 13: I went to the most pro Trump county in a 599 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 13: swing state, and that was in Georgia, Brandley County, it's 600 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 13: in the southeast part of the state. And then I 601 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 13: just came back from Clayton County, which is south of Atlanta. 602 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 13: It was the most pro Biden county in twenty twenty. 603 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 13: So Brandley County went for Trump by more than ninety percent, 604 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,479 Speaker 13: Clayton County went for Biden by more than eighty percent. 605 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 13: The Trump people that I talked to, there's like this 606 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 13: idea in the media of people think Trump is a jerk, 607 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 13: but he's their jerk. He's fighting for them on their behalf. Like, 608 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 13: I don't meet people who say that. The people I 609 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 13: meet think he is a good man, that he hears 610 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 13: about them. They don't see any cynicism at all. I 611 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 13: mean this, one woman showed me sort of picture that 612 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 13: she'd had me like a it looks like a painting, 613 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 13: but it's a print and it's Trump next to Jesus 614 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 13: walking on water. So yeah, I meet a lot of 615 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 13: people like that. I did in Branley County meet two 616 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 13: old guys who thought Trump was despicable. They called him 617 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 13: by American. 618 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: Wow, were you shocked? 619 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 3: It was? 620 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 13: Because you know, often in the South it breaks down 621 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 13: by race, like very sharply, especially outside of the cities 622 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 13: in the inner suburbs. These are all white guys. You know, 623 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,919 Speaker 13: everything about them would be coded conservative, what they wear 624 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 13: or how they talked, their whole vibe. But this one 625 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 13: told me he thought Trump was anti American, that he 626 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 13: was trying to overthrow the government. Another said Trump should 627 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 13: have done something to stop the police or being beaten 628 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 13: and that Harris was the only option to vote for. 629 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: Oh, so they're going to vote for Harris. 630 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, these two guys. 631 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: Wow, were you shocked? 632 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 9: I was. 633 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 13: I mean, you know, you look at the numbers. Those 634 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 13: ten percent have to come somewhere, But generally you see 635 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 13: it as just breaking down, just like all white were 636 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 13: Trump and all black volks for Harris, like in the 637 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 13: Deep South, in the Deep South. But this wasn't that, 638 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 13: and they weren't afraid to say it. We were at 639 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 13: a table with a bunch of Trump supporters that they 640 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 13: all knew, they're all friends, they all joked with each other, 641 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 13: but they weren't afraid to say it. 642 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: So what did you see in the pro Biden County? 643 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 13: Well, I saw a lot of people who are on 644 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 13: the fields because there had been so much money with 645 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 13: the COVID stimulus. 646 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: And they gave Trump credit for signing the checks, right, Yeah. 647 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 13: And they never before, like I'd never heard someone really 648 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 13: explain it to me, like twelve hundred dollars, you know, 649 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 13: how is that really that much? But what they talked 650 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 13: about was there was also the unemployment insurance. There was 651 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 13: a lot of more money in the economy and people 652 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 13: who didn't have a lot of money. This one spam 653 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 13: business owner was telling me that people were in the 654 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 13: area were afraid that the government would claw back that 655 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,320 Speaker 13: stimulus check and so they cashed it right away and 656 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 13: they would just walk around with all the money in 657 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 13: their pocket and spend it. So this guy owned a 658 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 13: pet store and he was just like raking in the money. 659 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: When Trump was in office, right. 660 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 13: And then once inflation hit and then people had less money, 661 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 13: that stimulus went away. You know, he's making less money, 662 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 13: and he says he's paying more taxes on it. So 663 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 13: I met six or seven black men sort of who 664 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 13: were self employed. They didn't like Trump, but they missed 665 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,879 Speaker 13: the money that they associated with his administration. 666 00:36:58,239 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: That's great. 667 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 13: I mean I was surprise. Yeah, no, I've heard that, 668 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 13: I've seen it in polls. I just hadn't talked to 669 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 13: anyone like that. I also met a woman who like misinformation, 670 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 13: Like she was just kind of spoke to the power 671 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 13: of misinformation. She like, she said she would get tons 672 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 13: and tons of mailers from campaigns and then she'd go 673 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 13: and she'd research it. But from what she said, I'm 674 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,800 Speaker 13: not sure she got the very best sources from her research, 675 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 13: Like she would search Twitter, that kind of thing, and 676 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 13: you know, at the end of it, she said she 677 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 13: was on the fence and that she believed that if 678 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,720 Speaker 13: aliens came, Trump would not hide it from the American 679 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 13: people because he wouldn't be able to keep his mouth shut, 680 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 13: and that was something she liked about him. 681 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: Oh good, Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So 682 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: did that leave you feeling optimistic? 683 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 13: Well, one, misinformation is really powerful to a lot of people. 684 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 13: Do not have faith in our institutions. I know, we 685 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 13: know that, but then when you hear it from someone, 686 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 13: it just hits a lot harder. When you hear from 687 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 13: someone who's not paid to read the news and talk 688 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 13: about politics, it hits a lot harder. And I and 689 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 13: then a lot of people who said it was the 690 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 13: lesser of two evils, or that I met I met 691 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 13: a guy who didn't even want to vote. 692 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 1: Right, had he voted in the last election, He didn't say. 693 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 13: He said that he sometimes voted. He said he voted 694 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 13: in local elections and that mattered a lot more, but 695 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 13: on the national level it never. Basically they didn't feel 696 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 13: listened to, that they're what they wanted didn't really matter. 697 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just am a little bit baffled by that. 698 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: But so, sort of where do you think we are 699 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 1: now with this kind of far right world of this 700 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 1: is really now the politics that informs Donald Trump? Any 701 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: Elon Musk. So since you've sort of studied this culture, 702 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: what would the sort of next step be Where do 703 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: you think this goes? 704 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 13: Well, it depends on it are elected. But yeah, I 705 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 13: do think that is the most interesting part going forward 706 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 13: to me is how radicalized the Republican elites are, you 707 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 13: know JD. 708 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:10,800 Speaker 9: Vans. 709 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 13: I tend to think people believe what they say. You know, 710 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 13: there's this kind of this idea for a while that 711 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 13: people were just ironic racist, or they were just you know, 712 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 13: cynically saying provocative things to get attention. I don't really 713 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 13: believe that. I believe that people generally generally believe what 714 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 13: they say, you know so JD. Vans was a lot 715 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 13: of these podcasts talking about something I've heard from other 716 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 13: pretty far right influencers, this idea of seizing institutions of 717 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 13: the left and a kind of like new velo McCarthyism 718 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 13: where you route out you know, wokeness from the universities 719 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 13: and other institutions, the cat lady stuff. I mean, like 720 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 13: pepe avatars used to tweet that at me all the time. 721 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 13: It's like astounding to hear it from like a mainstream 722 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 13: a senator. And I went back and watched a lot of 723 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 13: his old high cast and Advance talked about having read 724 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,240 Speaker 13: a book by Pat Buchanan called Death of the West 725 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,839 Speaker 13: when he was a teenager and how it was very influential. Hell, 726 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 13: and you know, Pat Buchanan was so fringe for a 727 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 13: long time that he was kind of a choke. I mean, 728 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 13: he was on Rachel Nas show a lot, right like 729 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 13: he wasn't a threat, but his ideas have taken hold. 730 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:22,720 Speaker 9: Party. 731 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: Jadie Vance seems strikes me as a person who says 732 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: a lot of shit. He doesn't mean, he's quite smart. 733 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: He knows where this is going, right, He's gotten on 734 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: the Trump train. He wasn't on the Trump train as 735 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: little as three years ago. So either he's completely changed 736 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: everything he believes in three years is certainly possible, he's 737 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: changed his name like five times, or he's just doing 738 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: this to get elected. Either way, I mean, it would 739 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: mean that both people on the ticket don't believe anything 740 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,280 Speaker 1: they're saying, which is certainly possible. 741 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 9: But do you. 742 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: Think that's what it is? Like? Do you think he 743 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: really believes the stuff he's saying, and that, like going 744 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 1: with Trump, has emboldened him. It strikes me that the 745 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,959 Speaker 1: stuff he was saying three years ago did not show 746 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: a lot of Pappy pan in it. 747 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,879 Speaker 13: That's true, it didn't, But when you look at how 748 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 13: he explains those positions now, it's really interesting. He has 749 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 13: a lot of angerness and bitterness towards the elite culture 750 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,360 Speaker 13: that he clawed his way into from Ohio, and that 751 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 13: feeling is not completely alien to me. I am also, 752 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 13: I'm roughly his age. I was two states away in 753 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 13: small town Tennessee in high school. You know, there's this 754 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 13: photo of him, but I almost like reco like his clothes, 755 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 13: what he's wearing. It's like I know him without knowing him, 756 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,600 Speaker 13: and I do understand what it's like to think there's 757 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 13: something better on the East Coast and you work and 758 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 13: work and work to get there, and it's not quite 759 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 13: what you thought it would be. And he speaks with 760 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 13: great bitterness about the careerism of the people he met 761 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,720 Speaker 13: at you know, and this is also something Peter Teal 762 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 13: has talked about a lot, that people are working so 763 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 13: hard to secure positions that are very prestigious, but that 764 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,399 Speaker 13: make them miserable, and that seems to be how he's 765 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,720 Speaker 13: explained his position to himself, and he said he also 766 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 13: says that like, oh, I saw the passport where I 767 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,239 Speaker 13: could have made a lot of money telling everybody that 768 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 13: the people where I came from are just racist idiots, 769 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 13: and I don't think that that's actually true. 770 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: He did make quite a lot of money. Ellie, thank 771 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. I hope you'll come back. 772 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 13: Oh yeah, it was great talking to. 773 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:40,280 Speaker 2: You now Momentecly Jesse Cannon, Saba junk fest Elon. Every 774 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 2: right winger on Twitter and Trump love to do this, 775 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 2: especially oh yeah, I forgot Speak of the House, Mike Johnson. 776 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:48,799 Speaker 2: They love to push that it's going to be all 777 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 2: immigrants voting in the election, so they could try to 778 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 2: say it was stolen. Georgia's secretary of state might have 779 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 2: a word with them. What are you seeing here, Well. 780 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 1: Georgia has a Republican Secretary of State, Brad Ravensburg. It 781 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 1: has a Republican governor, Georgia Governor Brian Kemp, and they discussed. 782 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: They have announced that they prevented non citizen voting by 783 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: taking twenty people off the state's voter rolls. You know 784 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,800 Speaker 1: how many people are on the state's voter rolls, eight 785 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:23,479 Speaker 1: point two million, and only nine of those twenty non 786 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: citizens have ever cast a valid So there are only 787 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,439 Speaker 1: twenty non citizens on the voter rolls of eight point 788 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: two million in the state of Georgia. And that is 789 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: our moment of fuckery. That's it for this episode of 790 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday 791 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: to hear the best minds and politics make sense of 792 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 1: all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, please send 793 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: it to a friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks 794 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:57,240 Speaker 1: for listening.