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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Welcome back to Betcher Happy Hour. I'm Joe

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Speaker 1: and I'm Serena, and we are back to recap episode

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Speaker 1: five and then later on we have a very special

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Speaker 1: guest coming on. His name, you guys all know him

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Speaker 1: is Gary. He lit up the screen when he was there.

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Speaker 1: He was always in a good mood. But he's an

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Speaker 1: emotionhow guy. So maybe we'll get him to cry.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you never know. You never know on this podcast,

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Speaker 2: it can go a billion different ways. But we're excited

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Speaker 2: to chat with him. I feel like we saw bits

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Speaker 2: and pieces of his relationship with Joan, but just to

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Speaker 2: learn more about their connection and what they bonded over,

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Speaker 2: and just more about Gary in his life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Joan. Something I'm realizing watching this show is Joan

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Speaker 1: doesn't have the greatest poker face face.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree, and I felt that in

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Speaker 2: this episode. Yeah, big time. I feel like it's with

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Speaker 2: some seasons it's very hard to tell where the lead

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Speaker 2: is falling with their feelings, and others it's a little

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Speaker 2: bit easier, which is just you know, it's natural, like

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Speaker 2: some po where their herd on the sleeve a little

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Speaker 2: bit more than others. And yeah, Joan I'm starting to

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Speaker 2: see where things are headed me too, but too, it'll

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Speaker 2: be it'll be good to chat with Gary later. And

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Speaker 2: what do you think about episode five?

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Speaker 1: I thought it was entertaining.

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Speaker 2: I thought this episode was good. Lots is happening. We're

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Speaker 2: heading into hometown, so it's always kind of like a pivotable, pivotable,

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Speaker 2: pivotal episode. Yes, what did you think of this episode?

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Speaker 2: Any favorite moments?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my favorite, My my favorite moment, this might have

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Speaker 1: been my favorite moment on the entire season, was not

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Speaker 1: Mark leaving, but just Pascal being like Mark's my best friend.

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Speaker 2: I know, really hard, and you know what, Pascal was

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Speaker 2: such a hype man for him when he was going

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Speaker 2: on his date too.

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Speaker 1: But I just looked at these two older men at

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Speaker 1: they reminded me of just like innocent twelve year old boys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, being like he's my best friend. I can't believe

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Speaker 2: we're in different classes in sixth grade.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, collegue, some of your best friend and I still

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Speaker 1: do it. We all do it, but it just is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we all have best friends.

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Speaker 1: It just sounds so childish.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but in a sweet way. Yeah, I liked it too.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was a sweet moment. And I thought

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Speaker 2: it was relatable having been a contested on the show.

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Speaker 1: He goes he's my best friend. That was funny.

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Speaker 2: He sounded like Sonny a little bit in that moment,

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Speaker 2: which is Joe's best friend's son. But yeah, I feel

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Speaker 2: like it is relatable having been on the show. When

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Speaker 2: the person that or one of the people that you're

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Speaker 2: closest to and you're really confiding and you trust to

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Speaker 2: just kind of vent to and lean on when you're

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Speaker 2: having tough moments leaves, it is hard. Like when Abigail

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Speaker 2: left when we were on Paradise. I was devastated. I

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Speaker 2: was like, I can't do this without her, Like I

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Speaker 2: need her here, I need her to come back.

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Speaker 1: What was the standout moment for you?

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Speaker 2: Standing moment for me probably the hummingbird moment with Mark.

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Speaker 2: I just thought that was really impactful, especially having the

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Speaker 2: background information about Kelsey being on the show and talking

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Speaker 2: about her connection to her mom, So just seeing him

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Speaker 2: open up and be vulnerable about that, I thought was

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Speaker 2: really beautiful. I agree there's a lot of reference to

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Speaker 2: symbolism and animals and comfort and that I will see

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Speaker 2: throughout the most recent seasons.

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Speaker 1: I will say the yacht date was very awkward.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but let's kick it off at the top and

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Speaker 2: we'll get into all of it all, right, let's do it. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So week starts off, we find out that she is

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Speaker 2: not going to be giving out any group date roses

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Speaker 2: on the one on ones or the group date. What

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Speaker 2: did you think about that?

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Speaker 1: I'm fine with that.

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Speaker 2: I'm fine with it too. It's not very common. I

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Speaker 2: feel like we rarely see them say, like, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if we've I can't actually remember a time where

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Speaker 2: they've said we're not going to give out roses until

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Speaker 2: the rose ceremony.

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Speaker 1: I don't like roses on dates?

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Speaker 2: Really? Why not?

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Speaker 1: Because I like I like it saving it all for

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Speaker 1: the end.

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Speaker 2: I feel like this week, if there's a week, to

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Speaker 2: not give out a rose on a date, because I

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Speaker 2: feel like the roses make things a little bit juicier

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Speaker 2: and it's kind of telling on where the lead is leaning,

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Speaker 2: especially the group date roses. But I feel like at

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Speaker 2: this point it's such a serious week going into hometowns,

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Speaker 2: it makes the most sense out of any other week

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Speaker 2: to be like, I'm gonna wait and give myself time

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Speaker 2: to like think on this until the end of the week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: She had her chat with Trista. Trista has been like

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Speaker 2: the comeback queen of the franchise. She's on every single season.

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Speaker 1: Well, they love her for Golden, but she was on

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Speaker 1: Gen season two? Was she on Gen?

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Speaker 2: She came and did the follow the Yellow Brick Road date.

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Speaker 1: I know Trista has been on the past. I feel

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Speaker 1: like since we've been on Bachelor Happy Hour, I think

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Speaker 1: she's been on every season that we've recapped.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she might hold a record for cameos. Yeah, but

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Speaker 2: she's great. I mean, we love to see her. So

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Speaker 2: they have a chat and Trista kind of explains I

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Speaker 2: feel like my biggest regret was not being open enough.

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Speaker 2: And obviously she met her husband on the show, and

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Speaker 2: she said she wished she'd been more vulnerable and open

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Speaker 2: with her feelings about him, and I feel like that's because.

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Speaker 1: He was with her. But I disagree. I don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't believe. I don't think that's correct.

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Speaker 2: You don't think that's good advice?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Why not?

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Speaker 1: Because you know she's been married to Ryan now for

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Speaker 1: so long that she forget I feel like she probably

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Speaker 1: forgets that she did have feelings for other people in

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Speaker 1: at the time and you don't. I feel like the

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Speaker 1: lead doesn't always know which way to go, and if

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Speaker 1: you are if you do tell someone you love them,

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Speaker 1: like in Clayton eckert situation where he told multiple people

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Speaker 1: that he loved them, there ends up being there's always

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Speaker 1: there's always an issue with that, and then your your

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Speaker 1: person potentially watches it back. So I almost think you're

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Speaker 1: better off keeping those feelings close to your chest, and

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Speaker 1: then afterwards, when you do choose that person, you could

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Speaker 1: be more vulnerable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a fine line, and I think every

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Speaker 2: lead would likely have a different take on it based

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Speaker 2: on their experience. Like if you ask Ben Higgins who

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Speaker 2: told multiple people, Clayton ecker who told multiple people, versus

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Speaker 2: some of the people that might have been more conservative

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Speaker 2: with their feelings. I think they're all gonna have different answers.

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Speaker 1: But I don't be too conservative like Zach who just

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Speaker 1: went out there and was like, I'm not having sex

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Speaker 1: with anymore.

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Speaker 2: Well, he wasn't conservative at the end of the day.

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Speaker 2: He threw that out the window. But I do agree

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Speaker 2: with you. I think opening up about your feelings too

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Speaker 2: much is a very risky move that doesn't always pay

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Speaker 2: off and being a little bit more closed off is

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Speaker 2: maybe the safer play, but you're less likely to hurt

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Speaker 2: someone's feelings if you change your mind or something happens

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Speaker 2: where you said it to people in that person that

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Speaker 2: you end up with has a problem with that anyway.

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Speaker 2: First group date or sorry, first date is a one

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Speaker 2: on one and it's with Keith, who got the first

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Speaker 2: impression Rose night one from Joan and last week they

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Speaker 2: had a chat at I think it was the cocktail

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Speaker 2: party before the Rose ceremony, and it was quite awkward.

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Speaker 1: Their relationship has really been on the decline since first

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Speaker 1: and Pressure rows. We see that every so often that

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Speaker 1: the person that gets the first im pressure rolls like

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Speaker 1: if they I feel like the truth is if the

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Speaker 1: person that gets the first impressure Rose isn't top two,

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Speaker 1: like we usually see that relationship like fizzle pretty hard,

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Speaker 1: like it there becomes like all of a sudden, there's

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Speaker 1: just like zero connection.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I think that there's been this kind of

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Speaker 2: awkwardness between Keith and Joe in the last few weeks

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Speaker 2: where it just feels like the relationship isn't moving in

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Speaker 2: a romantic direction and Keith seems to be freaking out

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Speaker 2: because of that awkwardness, because he wants it to go

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Speaker 2: in that direction. But I feel like what's happened is

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Speaker 2: he wants it to move to be more serious, more romantic,

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Speaker 2: and I just think Jones not feeling it, and I

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Speaker 2: think he's like, why isn't this working? And it's making

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Speaker 2: him feel uncomfortable and anxious. But at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, I think that's coming from a place of him,

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Speaker 2: like deep down feeling like his emotions are not being reciprocated.

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Speaker 2: I don't think they're being reciprocated. Like I don't think

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Speaker 2: she feels that romantic connection with him. I think it's

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Speaker 2: turned into way more of a friendship on her end

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Speaker 2: at least. Yeah, like there was I was getting like

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Speaker 2: no spark from her on this date. Yeah, I agree,

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Speaker 2: But I mean I thought it was pretty like going

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Speaker 2: to a winery and sitting and drinking wine. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: liked the activity for ye.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, it's hard because that's why, in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, like Paradisis Is, it's a better show because

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Speaker 1: there's just you just have there's just more options, where

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Speaker 1: like it's hard for somebody like Keith who now he's

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Speaker 1: questioning himself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when yeah, he's getting in his.

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Speaker 1: Head, Yeah, when the answer is kind of just simple,

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Speaker 1: like she's just not really that into you, that she's

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Speaker 1: really into a few other guys. And now you're you're questioning, like,

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Speaker 1: is there something wrong with me? Is this and that?

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Speaker 1: But like, you know, if if the situation situation was

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Speaker 1: a paradise situation, you two may not even have ever.

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Speaker 2: You never gotten this far.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: And I just think that she gave him that first

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Speaker 2: impression rose because he did make a great first impression.

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Speaker 2: He came out very strong, very confident. They had a

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Speaker 2: lot of fun together, a lot in common, and I

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Speaker 2: think it made for a great base for a friendship

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Speaker 2: for them to get along, and I think his romantic

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Speaker 2: feelings grew and hers just didn't. Unfortunately, in the midst

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Speaker 2: of this one on one, we see a scene with Mark. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: back at the house. He's kind of walking around a

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Speaker 2: side we see clips of a hummingbird, and it cuts

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Speaker 2: to him talking to the men inside, kind of opening

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Speaker 2: up to them about what that means about how his

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Speaker 2: late wife, Denise, he feels connected to her through this

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Speaker 2: symbol of a hummingbird.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And when we did interview Mark, He's mentioned like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I lost my wife that was out of

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Speaker 1: my control. We didn't get a divorce, and yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think just the process of dealing with that is just

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Speaker 1: so tough, and we see that.

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Speaker 2: And just if you guys watched Joey's season, Mark's daughter

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Speaker 2: Kelsey was on it and she talked about the passing

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Speaker 2: of her mom and she feels connected to her mom

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Speaker 2: through the symbol of butterflies. So to see that kind

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Speaker 2: of mirrored and Mark's experience with the hummingbird, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it was like really sad, and just seeing the depth

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Speaker 2: of his grief for his late wife was obviously heartbreaking

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Speaker 2: because he's in this proble of trying to move on

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Speaker 2: while also missing the person that he committed spending his

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Speaker 2: life with. But simultaneously, there was like beauty and hope

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Speaker 2: in it because the symbol reflected him feeling like reassured

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Speaker 2: that he was here for a reason, he was doing

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Speaker 2: the right thing, and that there is still hope for

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Speaker 2: him to find love again and kind of feeling reassured

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Speaker 2: that that's what his wife would have wanted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and watching it, I think everyone was hoping that

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Speaker 1: Mark was the guy to receive the next one on one,

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Speaker 1: which he ends up being the next guy to receive

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Speaker 1: the one on one because she announces the group date

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Speaker 1: and he's not on it, and it's a bowling group date.

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Speaker 2: It's a bullying group date. What did you think of

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Speaker 2: the group date?

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Speaker 1: I mean, okay, so whatever group dates find fun, they bowl?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Secalcal does one with the bullying shit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but he does great. He bowls a strike or

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Speaker 1: close to a strike. But I think the big thing,

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Speaker 1: and this is kind of the first time all season,

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Speaker 1: and we see this so much in the regular seasons.

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Speaker 1: You know, you see Chok kind of just like all

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Speaker 1: over Joan, his arm around her. She's like snuggled up

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Speaker 1: in his embrace.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. They did a wide shot of it, and you

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Speaker 2: could see the guy sitting like scattered amongst the bench

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Speaker 2: and then they're all like five feet away from each other,

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Speaker 2: and then Joan and Chalk are just like in the

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Speaker 2: corner like cuddling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And like I've always I'm always someone that kind

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Speaker 1: of I'm like, yeah, like, hey, listen, it's fair game,

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Speaker 1: like you do do your thing, really, but I do

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Speaker 1: think when when you are in a room with all

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Speaker 1: the other guys. I think there's kind of like a

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Speaker 1: time and place and if you are going to do that,

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Speaker 1: that's fine, but like let's make it.

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Speaker 2: Quick and let's make a sneaky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, ye a little more.

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Speaker 2: You had a bowling date when I was on The Bachelor,

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Speaker 2: and if one of the girls had gone up and

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Speaker 2: just like we're all in a group hanging out and

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Speaker 2: just sat on the Bachelor's lap, I'd be like, grill

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Speaker 2: a friend, You've got to be kidding me, Like pull

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Speaker 2: them off to the side and make out in a

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Speaker 2: dark corner, like I don't care, but you're you're kind

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Speaker 2: of airing it out for all of us to see.

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Speaker 1: And it's also I mean, it's also a little on Joan.

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Speaker 1: It's a little on the lead because she also kind

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Speaker 1: of needs to be aware that there are other guys and.

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Speaker 2: Like, you know, I know, but the lead is always

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Speaker 2: in a tough position there of like not wanting to

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Speaker 2: make anyone feel rejected. And I also think that her

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Speaker 2: and Chalcolate really like each other.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, like.

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Speaker 2: He's definitely up there. I also on top of that, though,

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Speaker 2: like we haven't seen a lot of aggressive is a

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Speaker 2: strong word, but like the guys aren't really like pursuing

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Speaker 2: Joan in a strong way.

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Speaker 1: No, They're more passive.

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Speaker 2: They're more passive, at least from what we've seen. So

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Speaker 2: if I'm her, I'm like thank you, Like you know,

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Speaker 2: I want to feel pursued. I want to feel like

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Speaker 2: you guys want me like you're coming after me a

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Speaker 2: little bit. Yeah, I think that there's a bit of

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Speaker 2: a chase happening here.

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Speaker 1: I also think that it comes with like I don't

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Speaker 1: know how many of them were actively dating before the show,

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Speaker 1: but I would say it's they're not as active as

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Speaker 1: your your twenty year olds, So I think it's probably

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Speaker 1: I think it's.

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Speaker 2: Really like they're not at a bar, like going for

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Speaker 2: a girl who's got like two other guys kind of

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Speaker 2: trying to talk to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I just I just think it's a little Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's probably.

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Speaker 2: Unfamiliar territory one percent. Yeah, But I thought the bowling

295
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,560
Speaker 2: was fun. I thought it was fun, honestly to have

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Speaker 2: just like a little bit of tension on the date

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Speaker 2: because I feel like everything's gone so smoothly this whole season,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, I've been very like lovely and sweet to

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Speaker 2: just have the guys kind of be a little bit. Ten.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, is that bad to say? No?

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Speaker 1: I agree hundred percent. Like right now, I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: it's it's very much like Joan. Joan's favorite is Chalk.

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Speaker 2: At least from this date, And to me, the.

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Speaker 1: Only one right now that I'm kind of getting like

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Speaker 1: can't give chalk or run for his money is probably Jordan.

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Speaker 2: I feel the same way. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then other than that, it's yet it's I mean,

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Speaker 1: we and we see who ends up going to hometowns

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Speaker 1: because this is the episode. Yeah, yeah, which I like.

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Speaker 1: Before this episode so before we're gonna we'll get into

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Speaker 1: Mark's yacht date. But before Mark's yacht date, I would

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Speaker 1: have never, never have guessed that Pascal was going to

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Speaker 1: be in their over Mark.

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Speaker 2: I would agree with you on that. Yeah, because we

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Speaker 2: haven't seen a lot more Jonathan. I thought Jonathan or

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Speaker 2: my Mark, we're going to be that fourth spot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think we just haven't seen a lot of Pascal

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Speaker 2: and Jones' relationships since their second week one on one date.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, I just think especially on this group date,

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Speaker 2: we saw Joan and Jonathan have kind of a morning meaningful,

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Speaker 2: in depth conversation. He's showing her, like photos of him

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Speaker 2: and his family and cards and all these things just

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Speaker 2: felt like there might be a little bit more like

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Speaker 2: depth to that relationship and Mar's relationship than hers with Pascal.

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Speaker 2: But it also just might be like Pascal's such personality

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Speaker 2: and like we see a lot of the like fun,

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Speaker 2: silly moments, but maybe they've had more deep moments as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So we cut to March yacht date one

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Speaker 1: on one date.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which I don't know why this is. I feel

332
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Speaker 2: like the yacht dates always get such crap weather, like

333
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 2: it's full fog and overcast.

334
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Speaker 1: La is like la is sunny three hundred days out

335
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Speaker 1: of the year, And.

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Speaker 2: It's like every time they do a yacht date, it's

337
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Speaker 2: like the helicopter dates, it's like blue sky and then

338
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,160
Speaker 2: they throw them on a boat and it's like, yeah,

339
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 2: it's bumpy and cold.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's kind of how this date really kicks off,

341
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,680
Speaker 1: is bumpy and cold. Like they're kind of both just

342
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,960
Speaker 1: yeah emotionally too, Yeah, they're both kind of just kind

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Speaker 1: of pretty quiet. And I think this is the first

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Speaker 1: time that I've now seen Joan and Mark together where

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, they actually don't really seem to

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Speaker 1: have a strong connection.

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00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:12,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean like silence doesn't always mean awkward silence,

348
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Speaker 2: Like they could have just been sitting there enjoying their

349
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,359
Speaker 2: time together, but at the same time, like this is

350
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,159
Speaker 2: your first one on wine, like there should be a

351
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,919
Speaker 2: little excitement, a little adrenaline, and the convo just didn't

352
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,760
Speaker 2: seem to be flowing. I would say neither of them

353
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Speaker 2: are really yappers either, Like Mark is a little more soft,

354
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:37,200
Speaker 2: a little more reserved. Definitely great conversationalists, but it doesn't

355
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 2: seem like either of them's like propelling the conversation, if

356
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:41,200
Speaker 2: that makes sense.

357
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:42,359
Speaker 1: Well, it didn't in that moment.

358
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Speaker 2: Definitely not in that moment. So I think that the game,

359
00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:49,160
Speaker 2: like the Scavenger Hunt game, was absolutely necessary, Like they

360
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,040
Speaker 2: needed an activity, which is not uncommon, like a lot

361
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,320
Speaker 2: of people on first dates want to do an activity

362
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Speaker 2: because sometimes sitting and just having a conversation for three

363
00:17:58,160 --> 00:17:59,680
Speaker 2: hours with someone you don't know that well is a

364
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:00,560
Speaker 2: little difficult.

365
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's even more difficult when there's cameras in

366
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Speaker 1: your face.

367
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Speaker 2: And who knows, maybe, like the boat was loud, I

368
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 2: don't know.

369
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it just it just wasn't It was just

370
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 1: overall like overall this date, I don't know, there's not

371
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,360
Speaker 1: much to say. It was just kind of like, yeah,

372
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Speaker 1: like I feel like we now know Mark is not

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Speaker 1: the guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think what their relationship on the date reminded

375
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Speaker 2: me a lot of was from last season on the

376
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 2: Golden Bauchler Gary and Susan's relationship. They clearly had such

377
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:35,320
Speaker 2: a strong connection on a like a friendship bond, and

378
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,119
Speaker 2: they really enjoyed each other, but maybe they weren't the

379
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,560
Speaker 2: right fit for each other. As it's not even that

380
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 2: there was no chemistry, it's just like I just don't

381
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 2: think there are necessarily a fit for each other as partners.

382
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we see after their date the next

383
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:04,119
Speaker 1: following day, calls Mark to the side to like speak

384
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 1: with him and and her Her side of the story

385
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 1: is she essentially said like, I think you've grown a lot,

386
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Speaker 1: but I don't really think that you are ready. Yes,

387
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 1: you're ready like when I was ready, and therefore we

388
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,879
Speaker 1: are no longer on the same pace.

389
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. I she said I need someone as far along

390
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 2: in their journey as I am, which made to me

391
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 2: the way I took it was that she was saying,

392
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 2: I'm ready to find my partner. I don't know if

393
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 2: you're where I am in your dating journey.

394
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 1: Seeah, okay, okay, so let's stop there.

395
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 2: That is what she said, but I feel like I'm

396
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,399
Speaker 2: misreading that, But that is what she said, and she said,

397
00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 2: like I wrote the standard said, I didn't see us

398
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,480
Speaker 2: in our conversations, and it does seem like he talks

399
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 2: about his wife and she talks about her husband. And

400
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 2: that's majority of their conversations is talking about the bond

401
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 2: that they have over the loss of their spouses versus

402
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 2: like what their lives would be like together as a unit.

403
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is definitely what But I feel like that's yeah,

404
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 1: and I think that's that was her conversation with majority

405
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 1: of the guys and I, I don't know. I don't

406
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 1: know yet. It's I don't because I want to be like,

407
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,640
Speaker 1: but I feel like Mark's ready. I'm watching it and

408
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 1: Mark's not giving me that like I'm not ready for

409
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 1: a serious relationship.

410
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,880
Speaker 2: No, he's not really giving that to me either. I

411
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 2: think that it might have felt that way though, because

412
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 2: their main topic of conversation was their spouses. Yeah, but

413
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,439
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily know if that's because Mark isn't ready

414
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 2: which maybe he's not, like we could ask him if

415
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 2: we hopefully get to chat with him again, or maybe

416
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 2: it's just that they didn't really have much in common

417
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:02,880
Speaker 2: and that was kind of the thing that they think

418
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 2: fell on it. Really I think so too. Like I

419
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 2: think that was the thing they had in common, and

420
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 2: he is very eloquent in speaking about his experience with

421
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,199
Speaker 2: that and with his grief, and I think he was

422
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 2: almost like a support system for her in this journey,

423
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,679
Speaker 2: guiding her through that. And I think it stalled the

424
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 2: progression of their relationship because that was just like the

425
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 2: main topic of conversation that they were having. Yeah, it

426
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 2: also might just be something that he's comfortable talking about

427
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: and she's comfortable talking about, and they didn't really leave

428
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 2: that comfort zone together.

429
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 1: So then the question is why did she But my

430
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 1: question to you right now is why did she pull

431
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 1: Mark to the side and give him special treatment? Why

432
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 1: do I not just not give Mark a rose? I

433
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 1: just think she liked him more than the other two,

434
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: Do you think so? Huh?

435
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 2: I think that also they had a special one on

436
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 2: one day the day before. I think that of the

437
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,919
Speaker 2: three guys he sent home, she had the strongest connection

438
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 2: with him, Like, I.

439
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 1: Think, do you think if Joan had a rose on that.

440
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,360
Speaker 2: Date she would have given it to him?

441
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 1: She would have felt the pressure and just gave him

442
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: the rose, or because we're going in the hometowns.

443
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 2: No, No, And I think that she knew she was

444
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 2: probably having one on ones with Keith and Mark and

445
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 2: probably was going into them not sure if she was

446
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 2: going to be bringing them to hometowns, and that influenced

447
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 2: the decision to not be giving out any roses. Yeah, yeah,

448
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 2: because she might have just been like, I don't know,

449
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 2: and I might leave the date any more time to

450
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 2: think about it before the rose ceremony. Yeah, well, Mark,

451
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 2: I mean I think Keith would not have gotten a

452
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 2: rose because Keith didn't even get a walk out.

453
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 1: No Keith getting off it.

454
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 2: But I think if but I think that by Keith,

455
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 2: sorry sorry, by sorry buddy. But I think that at

456
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 2: the end of the oft date, I could have seen

457
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: Joan being like, I can't give this out. I'm not sure.

458
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 2: I have to think on things more. Yeah. I mean

459
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: their conversation was really heartfelt. They're both very genuine in it.

460
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 2: The lighting is so good, it's like Golden Hour. They're outside,

461
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 2: I mean like the chocolate and like the most gorgeous way.

462
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 1: Now you were excited, you were very excited about the boy.

463
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 2: Oh my god, lighting was so I really enjoyed that.

464
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,360
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it.

465
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: So, yeah, Mark, Mark goes home. It's it's a sad departure.

466
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 1: All the guys we see. Pascal's like my best friends

467
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 1: going home. I know, but Mark was. I feel like

468
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: Mark was that guy. And I guess this is why

469
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: it probably makes sense that Joan made a special moment

470
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: for Mark. It was like you could see like Mark

471
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: was basically everybody's favorite person in the house, which is

472
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 1: which is difficult because he kind of went in there

473
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,880
Speaker 1: where most guys I think would be a little jealous

474
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: or envious of the situation that Mark was in. Yeah,

475
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: and he was clearly Yeah, he was the most likable

476
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: guy in the house.

477
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 2: I agree. And I also think that it doesn't seem

478
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 2: that he has dated extensively, if really at all, since

479
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:06,719
Speaker 2: the passing of his wife. And I think it was

480
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,959
Speaker 2: definitely considerate of her to not be like, let me

481
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 2: meet your family, let me be one of the first,

482
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 2: if only people you've brought home to your kids and

483
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 2: your siblings and all these people after your wife passed.

484
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 2: If I know that, I'm not going to end up

485
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 2: with you.

486
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: Okay, So I do have a quick, a little question. Okay,

487
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: do we think that because Mark has a history with

488
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: the show, meaning his history is Kelsey who is now

489
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: engaged to Joey who was the last Bachelor, do we

490
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: think that played any part in Joan making a special

491
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 1: moment for Mark.

492
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 2: Like, do you we think that she was more sensitive

493
00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 2: towards sending him home because he has his and his

494
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 2: future son a lot within the franchise.

495
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, not only that, Joan in a way knows a

496
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 1: little more about his daughter, Like she Joan has watched Kelly,

497
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: She's met her, she's watched her experience. So maybe because

498
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: she has that personal connection to Kelsey.

499
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 2: She was right. It's kind of like if you're a

500
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 2: boss in an office and you have to fire three

501
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,959
Speaker 2: people and two of them are just like employees, and

502
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: one of them is like.

503
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: Your friend or your friend's child or your friends child.

504
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 2: You're gonna handle that one maybe a little bit differently.

505
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: I see what you're saying, and maybe that played a

506
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: small role, but I don't think it played a big role,

507
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 2: because I do think that he was so vulnerable. I

508
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: do think that they had a connection. I do think

509
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: she really liked him. I just think there was a

510
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 2: little bit extra. I think she just felt like there

511
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: was a little extra sensitivity needed in the breakup, especially

512
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: because they had literally just had their one on one

513
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 2: date the day before, so it's always gonna sting. No,

514
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 2: Keith was like three days. You know, it's like a

515
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 2: year in bachelor World.

516
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 1: I think I played a bigger part than than you think.

517
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: Maybe we could ask her.

518
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we agree to disagreem.

519
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: We agree to disagree, and we'll maybe never know the truth. Yeah,

520
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: but I mean it's an interesting thing to think about,

521
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 2: and it's definitely possible, even if it was like subconscious

522
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 2: on her part.

523
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: So we got we have hometowns coming up.

524
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: Oh you know what Mark said? That was really sweet

525
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: when he left, though, he did say I'm leaving here

526
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 2: a better human being, a better man, and a better father,

527
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 2: and I thought that was really a nice thing to say.

528
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I believe him. And we we have hometowns

529
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: next week. So Keith and Jonathan ended up not getting

530
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: a row yeah.

531
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: Which Jonathan I was like, he Keith, I was pretty

532
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: sure wasn't gonna work out. As much as I really

533
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 2: like him, I just didn't see them together. Jonathan, I

534
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 2: thought might sneak in there over Pascal or Guy.

535
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. After interviewing John then

536
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: I don't think that.

537
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 2: Just you don't see him with Joan.

538
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just the way he talked about his whole

539
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: experience on the show.

540
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: I wonder if people. I wonder if Joan thinks about

541
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: like the ages of the kids and like the jobs,

542
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 2: like if if she's looking at people. I mean, it

543
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 2: sounds unromantic, but.

544
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 1: It's a practical thing to think about.

545
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, Okay, if you know, one person is

546
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 2: if she's retired and the other person's retired and they

547
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 2: have grown kids, and that gives them more flexibility and

548
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 2: their lifestyles can match up, versus if it's someone that's

549
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: like maybe a little bit younger and working still and

550
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 2: they have young kids, where it's like there's still a

551
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 2: lot of parenting and involvement happening. Like, I wonder if

552
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: that's something that she thought about throughout this process. Yeah,

553
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: I think you kind of have to a little bit

554
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: because it is going to drastically impact your lifestyle, and

555
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: she does say she doesn't want to move. So someone

556
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 2: somewhere with young kids, they're probably not picking up they're

557
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: you know, fourteen year old and dragging him to where

558
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 2: Joone lives.

559
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: Love love is great.

560
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: Right, totally, We love love love. We're a dating show

561
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: recap podcast.

562
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: Love love is love is a wontherful thing, and I

563
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: think love on this show is the main driver comes

564
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: first when you're choosing the person that you want to

565
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: end up with. But you do have to consider everything

566
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: if you're gonna if you're serious about making the relationship

567
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: work after the show, Yeah, you have to put everything

568
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: into consideration. Where they live, how old they are, how

569
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: many kids.

570
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: They have, are they moving?

571
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: You know, all that shit's gonna matter when you get

572
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: off of.

573
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: The trum retirement, how much you know there's spending habits

574
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: are like everything.

575
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're not you can't. You're not going to

576
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: be able to live in bachelor Land forever.

577
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: And I also think when we look at Bacher or

578
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: Bacher at Bachelor in Paradise and we're dealing, you know,

579
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 2: with early twenty to mid thirty year olds, it's a

580
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: little bit easier to like I would all away for love,

581
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 2: whereas when you're sixty five seventy, I mean, depends on

582
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: the person. But from what we've seen the past two seasons,

583
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 2: there's much less of that than there is in the

584
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 2: season of like, well, we got to figure out where

585
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 2: to live, but we'll figure it out. You know, I'm

586
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: willing to move, he's willing to move. We're both going

587
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: to take a year off work, and then you know,

588
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: there's just a little more flexibility, especially when kids aren't involved.

589
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: I think kids really change everything.

590
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we have we have our final four, our

591
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: final four men.

592
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: Yep, we have Jordan Chalk those are my two. Those

593
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 2: I think they're going to be top two.

594
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: Me too.

595
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 2: And then we have Guy Guy, and we have Pascal Pascal.

596
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: I love that Pascal slo.

597
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: I can't wait for his hometown. I'm so excited me

598
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,239
Speaker 2: to it's in Chicago. Oh yeah, they're gonna have two

599
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: of the towns in Chicago because it too.

600
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's what's what are our final fours looking like?

601
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: How do you have left? I have two in there?

602
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: Okay, so your predictions were Guy, who's in the final four,

603
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: Jonathan fortunately just missed out, Jordan and then Dan and

604
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: then mine. I had, uh Chalk still there, Yeah, the chocks.

605
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: Honestly, Chalk's the heavy hitter right now, he's the favorite.

606
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Jordan could really sneak up from behind,

607
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: not behind, he's not far behind. If anything, they're close.

608
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: Sequel, you you have the doesn't matter if I have

609
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: two losers, you have the you have the favorite.

610
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 2: You don't know that though you're basically up one cuddle session,

611
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: not a bowling alley. Well, I have Chalk, I have

612
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: Charles k who is left earlier on Mark who's now

613
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 2: unfortunately gone, and Keith who'sunfortunately go. So I have one

614
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: and you have two.

615
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: Two. I have two horses in the race and you

616
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: have one.

617
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 2: And unfortunately it only takes one to win.

618
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: Though it only takes one to win. It's a Kentucky Derby,

619
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: and I think you might have the winner.

620
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 2: All right, Well, we will have to see next week.

621
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: We have hometowns, so be sure to tune into that,

622
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: and then we will have our recap and a special

623
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 2: guest interview as well.

624
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: Yep, and make sure you check out our episode with

625
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: Gary coming up. You won't want to miss it. Thank

626
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: you for tuning in and listening to Bachelor Happy y'all, all.

627
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 2: Be sure to listen and subscribe. We have new episodes

628
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 2: every single week, with recaps and exclusive interviews coming your way.

629
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, Bye bye,