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Speaker 1: And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

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Speaker 1: What's up everybody? Welcome to move the sticks, DJ, Bucky

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Speaker 1: with you Buck. What in the world is going on?

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Speaker 2: Man? Man?

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Speaker 3: Everything is good. Spend a couple of days down in

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Speaker 3: Jacksonville looking at the Jaguars, move around for OTAs, heading

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Speaker 3: back to La so having a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: That's good to see, Man. A couple of things that

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Speaker 1: want to hit on today. One is an article that

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Speaker 1: you actually sent me via text, which I love about

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Speaker 1: this time of year because we're kind of reading and

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Speaker 1: checking out different things in the sports world outside sports world,

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Speaker 1: but you sent me one that touches on crossover right,

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Speaker 1: not just being single sport guys, and not even talking

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Speaker 1: about high school players, actually talking about NFL players who

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Speaker 1: aren't single sport focused, which is a fascinating article. And

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Speaker 1: we'll get to that in just a few minutes here.

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Speaker 1: But as as we kind of kick this thing off,

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Speaker 1: one of the assignments that I try and give myself.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about this on a previous episode, was during

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Speaker 1: the off season, it's always good to go kind of

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Speaker 1: watch the top players at certain positions in the NFL.

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Speaker 1: We've been watching college tape forever, So let's dig in

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Speaker 1: watch somebod's top NFL guys and see, you know what

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Speaker 1: jumps out to you. So to me, I always start

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Speaker 1: with the pass rushers. I don't know why. I've always

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Speaker 1: found that fun in the off season to kind of

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Speaker 1: look at the you know, some of the top sack

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Speaker 1: guys in the league and see how they come by

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Speaker 1: those numbers and those stats and buck you will not

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Speaker 1: be surprised. But they're all not the same. How you

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Speaker 1: how you pile up those stat numbers at the end

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Speaker 1: of the year, and what that that looks like on

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Speaker 1: paper when you when you pop the film on, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't always look the same. It's a little different out there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it is funny because all sacks count, and

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Speaker 3: no matter when you get the sack, no matter if

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Speaker 3: it's a garbage sack at some times we like to

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Speaker 3: say in the industry, or if it's what it was

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Speaker 3: at the end of the game where they're just trying

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Speaker 3: to run the clock out at the end of a buck,

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Speaker 3: it all matters because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: we talk about the stat line of what you finish

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Speaker 3: with no doubt.

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Speaker 1: So let me. Let me run through a couple guys

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Speaker 1: that I looked at here and give you my thoughts

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Speaker 1: on them and what you learn, and then maybe we

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Speaker 1: can talk about how this trans positions to scouting and

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Speaker 1: we're looking at college kids and evaluating that. But let's

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Speaker 1: start first of all here, Let's go to TJ. Watt,

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Speaker 1: who had nineteen sacks. Led the league last year with

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Speaker 1: nineteen sacks. It was interesting watching him more out of

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Speaker 1: a three point stance than they're out of a two

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Speaker 1: point stance, you know, working on that right side he is.

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Speaker 1: I don't I'm not gonna say he's a one pitch

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Speaker 1: pitcher because he can you know, there are other things

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Speaker 1: he can do, but man, the vast majority of his

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Speaker 1: wins come with him getting off the ball creating a really,

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Speaker 1: really short corner. He is not you know, some of

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Speaker 1: these guys get up the field and then try and

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Speaker 1: turn like he will go right at your outside shoulder,

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Speaker 1: and he's able to make that a real short corner.

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Speaker 1: He can dip and rip and flatten. I mean, that

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Speaker 1: is his. That is his hallmark there. Early wins like

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Speaker 1: is over right away, that is his you know, that

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Speaker 1: is his go to and it works you know, nine

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Speaker 1: times out of ten when you're watching it here he

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Speaker 1: got doubled a few times. He was able to get

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Speaker 1: a couple of those. One of the interesting things you

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Speaker 1: get nineteen sacks. Very few, there are not There are

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Speaker 1: not plays where you're looking at him just unaccounted for,

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Speaker 1: you know, clean run throughs or they're running some type

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Speaker 1: of exotic blitz and it frees him up. He earned them.

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Speaker 1: He earned the vast majority of these, and then on

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Speaker 1: an instinct thing. I thought one of the things I

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Speaker 1: saw which was fascinating is we see so much RPO

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Speaker 1: game now where you can get a little bit hesitant

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Speaker 1: as a as an edge defender because am I going

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Speaker 1: to set the edge or they hand the ball off,

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Speaker 1: or am I gonna you know, convert run to pass

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Speaker 1: and go. No, he just blines it for the quarterback,

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Speaker 1: so he is going for the mesh point. I think

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Speaker 1: it was against the Cardinals we ended up having a

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Speaker 1: sack on an RPO which was just kind of it

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Speaker 1: was hilarious to me. It was like, yeah, no, I'm

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Speaker 1: not there's no reading here. I am attacking and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to eliminate this thing before it gets started. But

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Speaker 1: the biggest takeaways. One he wins primarily the same way

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Speaker 1: with speed, short corner, flatten and finish. And number two

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Speaker 1: you know, as you would expect with his name and

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Speaker 1: his reputation, not a lot of layups, not a lot

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Speaker 1: of gimmes in there, not a lot of.

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Speaker 3: Lifts, not a lot of gimmes. You know, it's so

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Speaker 3: funny when you talk about like TJ. Watt being able

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Speaker 3: to win with just like that one move. I read

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Speaker 3: somewhere like Kobe Bryant talked about to be unstoppable, you

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Speaker 3: have to be predictable, and part of that is you

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Speaker 3: have to be able to have something that is your

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Speaker 3: go to and everyone in the world knows that your

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Speaker 3: go to. But with that comes a level of mastery,

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Speaker 3: but also comes to the ability to have a counter.

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Speaker 2: And so if you think about TJ.

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Speaker 3: Watt, instead of having all of these this wide array

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Speaker 3: of moves to be able to get to the quarterback,

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Speaker 3: he's really honed in on a couple of things that

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Speaker 3: he does really well and he wins utilizing those things.

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Speaker 3: I think there's something to be said for that, because

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Speaker 3: I think common denominator amongst all of the guys that

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Speaker 3: we see when it comes down to it if it's

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Speaker 3: money time. I think we all can predict whatever move

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Speaker 3: that they're going to do. I just remember for years

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Speaker 3: looking at Dwight Freenny, knowing that when it's a third

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Speaker 3: and crucial, we got to get off the bield. The

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Speaker 3: spin move is coming some way. He saved some way,

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Speaker 3: shape or form. He's getting back to doing to spend.

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Speaker 3: I think with TJ. Watton, with some of the other guys, look,

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Speaker 3: their go to move is to go to and you

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Speaker 3: have to figure out a way to stop it, no

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Speaker 3: matter what, no doubt.

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Speaker 1: I've talked to a coach before who said, if you

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Speaker 1: show me an offense it doesn't have any tendencies, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna show you a terrible offense, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Like a really good offenses kind of know what they're

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Speaker 1: doing and they can do it repeatedly. Doesn't matter what

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Speaker 1: you do defensively. They have answers for it. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know that the thing with him too just high

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Speaker 1: side high side, high side, high side, high side, Like

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Speaker 1: he's not countering guys, He's not kind of working across

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Speaker 1: their face. He just wins the same way over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again in some weird ways. You know

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Speaker 1: who we've never compared him to, but who there is

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Speaker 1: more similarities the more you know that you study him here,

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Speaker 1: there is some von Miller there where just kind of

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Speaker 1: win that same way over and over and over again.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, he's gonna be a Hall of Famer,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, you talk about someone who had mastered the

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Speaker 3: dip and rip, like just to get off, get to it,

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Speaker 3: turned the corner and he's sacking a quarterback.

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Speaker 2: It happens over and over again.

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Speaker 3: Uh, give TJ Watt credit Thoughe for figuring that out,

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Speaker 3: because Dj when he was coming out of Wisconsin, there

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Speaker 3: was a lot of unknown about.

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Speaker 1: Is he going to play off the ball, get on

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Speaker 1: the ball?

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Speaker 2: Where do we put him?

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Speaker 3: Where do we fit He was a bit of a

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Speaker 3: one year wander based on the production at Wisconsin, and

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Speaker 3: he has become one of the best pass rushers, if

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Speaker 3: not the best pass rusher in the league. And I

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Speaker 3: don't know if anybody thought this was going to be

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Speaker 3: the plight of his career.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt. He's an unbelievable player. Man on a

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame path. Would be pretty cool with him

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Speaker 1: and his brother both going to be Hall of Famers.

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Speaker 1: All right, we've got a couple guys with seventeen and

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Speaker 1: a half sacks. I looked at these guys and very different.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with Trey Hendrickson. Someone who's bucky's been the

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Speaker 1: president of the Trey Hendrickson fan Club for I don't

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Speaker 1: know what five years now, six years now, you've been.

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Speaker 2: Sam over Sam Hobbard.

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Speaker 3: But then then Trey Henteresting gets a long oh there

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Speaker 3: you go, because.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was I was thinking a

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Speaker 1: white edge rusher since yeah, right, church, wrong Pew with

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Speaker 1: the Cincinnati white edge rushers. But Drey Hendrickson, man, there's

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Speaker 1: a look. He does it a lot of different ways.

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Speaker 1: You'll see that he's got a nasty little swipe that

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Speaker 1: he kind of will then convert dip and rip and

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Speaker 1: come off the edge with that. He does a nice job.

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Speaker 1: But combining those moves, he's one of the things I

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Speaker 1: noticed when watching him is he has an unbelievable knack

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Speaker 1: of beating one hand at the time. Like a lot

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Speaker 1: of times, when you think about a swipe, you think

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Speaker 1: about you're gonna swipe both the hands down and get

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Speaker 1: underneath or whatever, You're gonna swipe and come across and

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Speaker 1: rip inside. He just gets one hand. He knows if

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Speaker 1: I can beat that one hand, if I can beat

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Speaker 1: your one hand, I've won. And we talk about I've

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Speaker 1: always heard and you hear d line coaches work half

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Speaker 1: a man, work half a man, Like you just got

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Speaker 1: to get through the outside shoulder, pry open that shoulder

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Speaker 1: and you win. I've never really thought about it in

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Speaker 1: terms of hands, like if you can defeat one of

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Speaker 1: those hands, find out what the dominant hand is when there.

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Speaker 1: That's something he does really, really well. He's just really

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Speaker 1: skilled with his hands. You'll see him in a two

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Speaker 1: point as well as a three point. He does a

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Speaker 1: lot of damage against left tackles. You know, he's not

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Speaker 1: just beaten up on right tackles. He had four of

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Speaker 1: those rushes that were just pure power.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: So he has that club in his bag, but he

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Speaker 1: doesn't rely on it. But he also had some up

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Speaker 1: and unders, winning inside, some effort rushes had you know,

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Speaker 1: he'll win on a game occasionally not you know, they

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Speaker 1: don't use a lot of that. He flashed a eurostep

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Speaker 1: move that we've seen enter into the league with Miles Garrett,

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Speaker 1: who I'll get to in a moment and beat one

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Speaker 1: running back. But again with him, no no clean layups,

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Speaker 1: no freebies, no gimmes. Someone that can do a lot

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Speaker 1: of different things and can win a lot of different ways.

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Speaker 1: When we use the phrase technician, when we use the

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Speaker 1: phrase craftsman, that's him.

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Speaker 3: So what I was gonna say about him in comparison

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Speaker 3: to the conversation we had about TJ.

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Speaker 2: Watt, I think it's the.

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Speaker 3: Self awareness to know that I may not have superior attributes,

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Speaker 3: so what I need to do is master all the

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Speaker 3: little things that allow me to get in. One of

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Speaker 3: the reasons why maybe Trey Hendrickson has maybe more pitches

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Speaker 3: in his bag because he doesn't have the athleticism or

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Speaker 3: the overwhelming talent that maybe a TJ.

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Speaker 2: Wide or Miles Garrett has.

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Speaker 3: But because he knew that and understood that very early

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Speaker 3: in his career, he started kind of stacking bricks on

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Speaker 3: top of one another to give himself a very well

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Speaker 3: rounded game. And because of that, and because of the

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Speaker 3: other thing that I believe is an underrated skill. When

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Speaker 3: we talk about pass rushers, his effort. He is relentless

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Speaker 3: in his approach, and we talk about just a handful

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Speaker 3: of effort secks, but that just wears you down. To me,

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Speaker 3: I just kind of see him as a guy that

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Speaker 3: is almost like we think about Arkansas forty minutes a

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Speaker 3: hell when Nolan Richson was a basketball coach, and just

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Speaker 3: how just the cumultive effect of just dealing with someone

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Speaker 3: who is always revving the engine at a high level.

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Speaker 3: I just think he wears people down. And when you

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Speaker 3: go like that and you have a vast array of tools,

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Speaker 3: I think you see the success that he's had over

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Speaker 3: multiple seasons putting up double digit sacks.

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Speaker 1: No doubt, that's a great way to put it. I

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Speaker 1: was kind of thinking of it like if you're going

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Speaker 1: to classify these guys in the different categories, like maybe

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Speaker 1: the TJ. Watt category is like the Mariano Rivera category, like.

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Speaker 2: Oh, the cutter, just getting the cutter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's gonna you can't do anything about it.

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Speaker 1: You know it's coming, you're getting it, and you can't

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Speaker 1: stop it. Whereas with Trey Hendrickson, it's a little more

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Speaker 1: like Greg Maddox. He's changing speeds, he's inside, he's outside,

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Speaker 1: he's up, he's down. It's not a comfortable at bat.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you're up against Trey Henderson, Oh.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a great comparison because with Greg Mannix, Greg

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Speaker 3: Mannix didn't have the overwhelming bastball, so he had to

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Speaker 3: win with pitch location, changing speeds, just really an IQ

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Speaker 3: pitcher as opposed to a power pitcher.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a nice comparison. When you talk about

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Speaker 2: Trey Henderson.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the interesting thing is with him though, you know,

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Speaker 1: he always is in that top in that leader board

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Speaker 1: for get off when we look at those get off

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Speaker 1: numbers the next gen. So Trey does he does in

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Speaker 1: that first that first bit there, it's it's again I

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Speaker 1: hate the word like, you know, he's sneaky, fast, aceptively athletic.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's so deceptive a little bit with

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Speaker 1: him with that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So what I will say is we talk about

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Speaker 3: get off and then we talk about snap count anticipation,

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Speaker 3: because I think there are two different things, but they're

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Speaker 3: blended together. Get off is just a year five time,

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Speaker 3: year ten time. Snap count anticipation is just understanding the

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Speaker 3: rhythm of the cadence and just feeling like they're about

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Speaker 3: to come off. I believe when I played with Derek Thomas,

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Speaker 3: Derek Thomas had great get off but man, he can

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Speaker 3: anticipate the snap and just being able to jump the snap.

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Speaker 3: I mean it's like being in track, like you just

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Speaker 3: get the advantage on the opponent that head started that

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Speaker 3: Trey Henderson gets to certainly an advantage for him.

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Speaker 1: No doubt. All right, let's get to the guy that

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Speaker 1: you see every week in Josh Allen. I was curious

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Speaker 1: on this one. Seventeen and a half sacks a big number, buck,

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Speaker 1: but this is different. This is different than the first

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Speaker 1: two guys we watched. Okay, you'll see him in a

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Speaker 1: two point and a three point when you look at it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, again, he's got juice, that's evident. But he

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Speaker 1: had four on air, like untouched, like what we call him,

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Speaker 1: like kind of those old school Brian burnsacks we used

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Speaker 1: to talk about back in the day. Four on air.

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Speaker 1: He had four or five on games where they're running

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Speaker 1: games and he's kind of a looper and just kind

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Speaker 1: of getting him free. A couple of times he's the picker,

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Speaker 1: so he's coming down and picking for a teammate's rebound

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Speaker 1: and he's getting and he's getting some there. But then

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Speaker 1: you also see, you know, he ran he won against

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Speaker 1: the guard inside he's got. He flashed that euro step.

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Speaker 1: You'll see a club they you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: things I wrote down with him that they will do

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Speaker 1: on occasion. You know, we think about t J. Watt

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Speaker 1: always went on that up upfield shoulder. And I've heard

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Speaker 1: a defensive coordinator use this term to me, and I

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Speaker 1: love it, and I want to pay more attention to

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Speaker 1: this one. I'm watching games because when you have a

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Speaker 1: dominant rusher, a really good rusher, talk about using the

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Speaker 1: phrase clear the dance floor, like we are going to

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Speaker 1: slant and we're going to put him on an island.

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Speaker 1: We're going to leave that tackle in no man's land

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Speaker 1: where he's got no help inside, and then let Josh

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Speaker 1: Allen have a two way go, really a three way

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Speaker 1: go if you want to include the power there. But again,

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Speaker 1: I think the seventeen and a half sacks is a

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Speaker 1: big number. But in comparison to those other guys, he

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Speaker 1: had more freebies, They used him more on games. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't just you know, and I'm curious to what you see.

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Speaker 1: You see him every game. He's a very good athlete.

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Speaker 1: He's a good football player. But I didn't think that

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Speaker 1: was just him just you know, whipping the left tackle

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Speaker 1: down after down after down, win after win after win.

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Speaker 1: I think they did some things in Jacksonville to help

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Speaker 1: him a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so what you're talking about is manufacturer sack production,

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Speaker 3: meaning that the defensive coordinator played just a bigger role

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Speaker 3: on him getting free as opposed to just the player winning.

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Speaker 2: And there's nothing wrong with that.

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Speaker 3: When I played in Kansas City under gunf Of Cunningham,

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Speaker 3: a lot of times he would talk about my job

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Speaker 3: as a coordinator is create one on one opportunities for

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Speaker 3: you to win. Now, I can drop the blist, but

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Speaker 3: I can't guarantee you that you're gonna be free. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: it might work, but my job is to get you

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Speaker 3: one on one and then you have to have the

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Speaker 3: two to get it done. So much like the defensive

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Speaker 3: coach told you about clearing the dance floor, Floord, I

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Speaker 3: feel like Mike Callwell did a really good job of

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Speaker 3: creating opportunities for Josh Allen to win. They were talking

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Speaker 3: about We've talked about it finding the tomato can or

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Speaker 3: finding the fish. Who is the guy that we can

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Speaker 3: isolate to put a better athlete on him to find

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Speaker 3: a way to win. I think if you go back

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Speaker 3: and look, a lot of those were probably let's get

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Speaker 3: Josh Allen on their worst player.

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Speaker 2: However, we got to do it if it's lining up over.

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Speaker 3: Top of him, if he's gaming him, to make that

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Speaker 3: guy have to come off and deal with him, Let's

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Speaker 3: create favorable opportunities.

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Speaker 2: What would be interesting to watch now?

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Speaker 3: And he already has his money, but new defensive coordinator

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Speaker 3: comes in and Ryan Nielsen. Does Ryan Nilson take the

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Speaker 3: same approach to get him in or does he see

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Speaker 3: Josh Allen as a guy that can win on his own.

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Speaker 3: He's made I would say, tremendous improvement throughout the time

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Speaker 3: that I've watched him in Jacksonville in terms of learning

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Speaker 3: how to rush. He's got with people to learn how

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Speaker 3: to do it. But now can he do it on

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Speaker 3: his own, maybe without the assistance of the coach putting

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Speaker 3: him in those favorable spots like you talked about Trey

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Speaker 3: Henderson and TJ. Watt having to do over and over

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Speaker 3: and over again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's just interesting. It's all again, it's all a

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Speaker 1: little bit different. This one would be maybe the analogy here,

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna go baseball analogy is he knows he's

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Speaker 1: got a good defense behind him, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: just make better do it by himself. Don't got to

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Speaker 1: do it all by yourself.

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Speaker 3: I don't have to strike you out. Just hey, just tay,

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Speaker 3: make me in then play. My defense is good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt. All right, these next two, now the

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Speaker 1: numbers aren't as good. Well, I'm just going to tell

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Speaker 1: you these these two dudes are different. Now, this is

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Speaker 1: different than than and no disrespect to any of the

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Speaker 1: three guys because they're in TJ. Watt. You know that

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Speaker 1: pitch is unhittable, that he's got there, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: But when you watch Max Crosby and Miles Garrett different, man,

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Speaker 1: it just looks different.

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Speaker 2: It does.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's start first of all with Max Crosby. Max

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Speaker 1: Crosby fourteen and a half sacks, six of them that

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Speaker 1: I watched. Buck he's got four hands on him. I

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Speaker 1: mean he's getting doubled, whether it's a guard kicking out

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Speaker 1: to him to take away the inside rush, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a tight end lined up over or chipping him, or

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Speaker 1: whether it's the back he is not. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: gets attention on every single snap. And six think about that,

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Speaker 1: six wins where you're doubled six sacks where you're doubled.

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Speaker 1: He wins with power. You'll see him, it just looks different.

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Speaker 1: He'll uproot guys, He'll throw guys on the ground with

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Speaker 1: his length and power and explosiveness. He has late escapes

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Speaker 1: in other words, like they'll jump on him early with

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Speaker 1: one or two guys, and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: he's able to just kind of Houdini his way out

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Speaker 1: of blocks. A lot of times we talked about winning early.

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Speaker 1: You gotta win early or you're done. Like your feet

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Speaker 1: go dead, your hands go dead, you're stuck. His tires

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Speaker 1: never are in the mud. Buck, even when they're on

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Speaker 1: him early, he's able to get out. He's an escape artist.

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Speaker 1: He can get out all those things. Like it just

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Speaker 1: looks different when you watch him. He had on one

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Speaker 1: game he had you know, I had him getting a

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Speaker 1: sack on a game that is not you know how

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Speaker 1: they primarily get wins with him, but he can flatten.

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Speaker 1: He's got a nasty, nasty kind of rip and flatten.

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Speaker 1: Against right tackles, he wears them out. But then you'll

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Speaker 1: see him uproot and throw left tackles. He'll dust off

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Speaker 1: a spin which I think he's still working on and

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Speaker 1: developing there. But that was a hard fought fourteen and

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Speaker 1: a half sacks for Max Crosby.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so he had to earn him.

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Speaker 3: And you know you talk about a one man gang,

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Speaker 3: that's what he had to be for the Raiders in essence,

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Speaker 3: because he didn't have a lot of support like you

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Speaker 3: had some guys that would kind of show up. Maccooos

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Speaker 3: did some things, but not like a high end player

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Speaker 3: playing at him that would command some of that attention.

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Speaker 3: That's why if you talk about him getting fourteen and

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Speaker 3: a half sacks last year, imagine what is going to

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Speaker 3: He has someone on the interior, Christian Wilkins, who can

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Speaker 3: command some attention and take some of that on. Imagine

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Speaker 3: when they put them both on the same side, what

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Speaker 3: kind of chaos they can create, and how he'll benefit

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Speaker 3: from those opportunities. Either he's gonna benefit or Christian Wilkins

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Speaker 3: is gonna benefit from them being playing alongside one another.

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Speaker 2: I will say this, when you talk to people.

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Speaker 3: Around the Raiders, they just talk about how this dude

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Speaker 3: is just a relentless worker, a high end competitor that

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Speaker 3: just gets it DJ. I think you feel that when

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Speaker 3: you watch him play man. He is just a refuse

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Speaker 3: to lose type player on the perimeter, and you have

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Speaker 3: to account for him more every snap because he can

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Speaker 3: take over the game.

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Speaker 1: All right, I know it. We'll do bold predictions and

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Speaker 1: all that that crap. It's kind of a cheesy topic, right,

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Speaker 1: We'll do that kind of stuff as you get closer

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Speaker 1: to the season. But let me get your take on it,

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Speaker 1: because my take on it, and I was thinking I

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Speaker 1: was going to say the exact thing. You took the

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Speaker 1: words out of my mouth. When you have Christian Wilkins there,

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Speaker 1: and just watching the tape that I watched, you put

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Speaker 1: Christian Wilkins next to him, and even if he even

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Speaker 1: if that frees him up on like thirty to forty

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Speaker 1: percent of the snaps where he was getting all that attention,

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Speaker 1: even just know you're I know he's getting twenty sacks.

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Speaker 1: Buck like twenty is that's happening if just if Christian

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Speaker 1: Wilkins runs out there for if they both stay healthy,

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00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,920
Speaker 1: run out there for seventeen games, he's going to get

434
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 1: twenty sacks or or Christian Wilkins is going to get

435
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,720
Speaker 1: fifteen inside because they're gonna pick their poison.

436
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,879
Speaker 3: One or the other like they just put them on,

437
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 3: put them on the same side, and let him go

438
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 3: to work. And what I'm hearing you you talk about

439
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 3: twenty sacks when you were describing him working and having

440
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,440
Speaker 3: obviously watched him on tape, I was understand with Christian

441
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,719
Speaker 3: Wilkins he could be defensive player of the year, you know,

442
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,920
Speaker 3: like he's gonna have an opportunity to have that kind

443
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 3: of production coming off the edge, and if the Raiders

444
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 3: are good, then he's certainly gonna command that kind of attention.

445
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,160
Speaker 3: Because he got stuffed. I don't think he made All

446
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 3: Pro this year, and he should have.

447
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 1: They didn't watch the tape that I just watched.

448
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, because because he is a fantastic playmaker and disruptor

449
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 3: off the edge, and it's only going to get better

450
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 3: when he has a partner in Christian Wilkins on the inside.

451
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 1: All right, So I mentioned him along with Miles gartt

452
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 1: Miles Garrett had fourteen sacks.

453
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 2: Again got hurt. He got hurt like Danner lu Weik

454
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:00,919
Speaker 2: eleven because.

455
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: He was on a pace that was he's gonna go

456
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:05,920
Speaker 1: if he runs same thing with him when he runs

457
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 1: out there. This is doubles. This is freaking nasty, crazy crap.

458
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to describe it. But it

459
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,679
Speaker 1: is like watching It would be like if you took

460
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,400
Speaker 1: an NBA player and dropped him off at a high

461
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 1: school gym and watched little high school kids try and

462
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 1: guard him. That's what it looks like. It looks like

463
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 1: he is a different he's a different age group, a

464
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,119
Speaker 1: different skill set than everybody else. It's on the field

465
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 1: and it's like toying, like toying with a little mouse.

466
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,880
Speaker 1: Like what he's doing out there, like it is ridiculous.

467
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,439
Speaker 1: You know, doubles constantly, triples. You'll see him with sacks

468
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,680
Speaker 1: against triple teams, tossing right tackles to the ground. Spin

469
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,119
Speaker 1: it like the awareness, think about how physically gifted he is,

470
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: but the awareness to always know where the help's coming from.

471
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 1: You'll see him spin away from a helper, so the

472
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 1: helper's just block and error because you're there to try

473
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: and help, and the one thing you can't do as

474
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 1: a primary blocker is get is get beat away from

475
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,719
Speaker 1: your help. Right, just like basketball, you're trying to funnel

476
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 1: funnel people to where you've got help, and he's able

477
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: to defeat you on that in the one area where

478
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 1: you can't be defeated, to avoid that that double team

479
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 1: that's coming. Like he's got kind of that Yoda like

480
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 1: sense to be able to feel that. The euro step

481
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,440
Speaker 1: that he has, he's mastered it again. It's like you're

482
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: watching it. And he did the thing where he was

483
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,160
Speaker 1: like act like he was crossing guys over with the basketball.

484
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: It is what it looks like. He looks like he's

485
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: out there playing basketball with a bunch of stiff, ankled,

486
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: you know, high school kids.

487
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 3: And so I give Jim Schwartz credit because he gave

488
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 3: him the freedom just kind of move around. He created

489
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 3: those we talked about the dance floor. He tried to

490
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 3: as much as possible find ways for him to get

491
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 3: one on one against the inferior player at a point

492
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 3: of attack. And we can say most of the guys

493
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 3: that he faces are inferior compared to his superior athleticism.

494
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 3: He just gives people fits his athleticism. But DJ Field

495
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 3: level is your size. He looks different than everybody else,

496
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 3: and it reminds me a lot of when I watched

497
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 3: I used to watch Julius Peppers right in his frime

498
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 3: with the Carolina Panthers and you just watched them like, man.

499
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 2: They just not built like this. And then you see

500
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 2: Miles Garrett. He just has this.

501
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 3: This this body build, this athleticism, this freakish talent that

502
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,199
Speaker 3: he's now cultivated by putting more technique behind it. And

503
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 3: you have a defensive coordinator that is trying everything under

504
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 3: the sun to give him those opportunities. And man, Miles

505
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 3: Garrett just wins. I mean they they a lot of

506
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 3: people played cover one. They played man coverage the entire time,

507
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,719
Speaker 3: Send five man pressures and they're like, yeah, Miles Garrett's

508
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,439
Speaker 3: gonna get home, so we're not gonna worry about covering

509
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 3: all that.

510
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: No, it's stupid. I mean, that's why I'm saying like

511
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 1: this is there's some great players in this group here,

512
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: but what he has to work with is this is

513
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: one of one like that. Nobody has all of that

514
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 1: that he has there, nobody.

515
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 3: I mean, and just the way he's putting it together,

516
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 3: the way he sequenced it number one or ro pick.

517
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 3: He came in winning on I would say, winning primarily

518
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 3: just on talent alone. Uh, But then you see each

519
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 3: and every year just adding the technical refinement that you

520
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 3: need to be a consistently high producer in this league.

521
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 3: He's done that, So credit to him for doing the work.

522
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 3: But man, he is blessed with some tools that you

523
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 3: just don't have.

524
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 2: No.

525
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got in the front of the line up

526
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: in Heaven for every single deal.

527
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 2: They gave him a lot of stuff.

528
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: They gave him a lot of stuff. Man. But anyways,

529
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: it's a it's a pretty pretty incredible player. But anyways,

530
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: that's my uh, that's my little pass rush study. I

531
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: just want to look at five guys and uh and

532
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: see how they're winning. So when you when you come

533
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 1: away with it and think about for scouting Buck, I

534
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 1: think you ask yourself when you're watching a college kid,

535
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: does he have a dominant pitch? Is he a craftsman?

536
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: Is he an athletic rusher? Meaning we can use him?

537
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: And if we have a creative defense accordingate, we're going

538
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: to be able to you know, especially with some of

539
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: this we've talked about this Michigan Slash Ravens defensive schemes

540
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: permeating around the league right now where you're getting a

541
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: lot deception. So can I use his athleticism to be

542
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: able to win when we have confusion and chaos Can

543
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: I use him as a looper? Can I do different

544
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: things with them? Could I drop him if I needed to?

545
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: There's like that style of guy. And then then every

546
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: now and then, maybe once a decade, you're going to

547
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: get a super freak And that's and that's you know

548
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: that those guys are easy to spot.

549
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

550
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 3: Man, they come in in all different kind of kind

551
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 3: of styles and you describe them all.

552
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 2: I mean right there like that that list of the

553
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 2: top five.

554
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 3: And the funny thing is DJ you left off two

555
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 3: guys who had more sacks on paper than Max Crosby

556
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 3: and Miles Garrett. But you have Khalil Mack who has

557
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 3: seventeen sacks and you saw him every week and it's

558
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 3: just the power. He's just overwhelming you, running right down

559
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 3: the middle of your chest. After kind of being I

560
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 3: was a quiet for like a year or two, he

561
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 3: has come back to be a very productive rusher in

562
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 3: the twilight of his career. And then the Neil Hunter,

563
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 3: who also veteran player who just kind of understands it

564
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 3: and gets it. And there's one things and now what

565
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 3: I'm learning is like the Neil Hunter didn't have a

566
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 3: lot of sacks when he's at LSU and so some

567
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 3: of it is like when we're scouting and evaluating do

568
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 3: they have the tools to develop into that? And then

569
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 3: a lot of it is where he goes and who's

570
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 3: the D line coach that's coaching them. But when you

571
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 3: look at those top seven guys, the guys that are

572
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 3: recking up all the sacks, they certainly come in a

573
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 3: variety of different flavors.

574
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 2: No doubt.

575
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: The other thing I would say, if you were to

576
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: if I was to tell you one thing that all

577
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,479
Speaker 1: the five of these guys have in common, it's interesting

578
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: and I and I would put I would put Mac

579
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: and Hunter in there as well. These guys are all

580
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: really intelligent football players, Like we don't think of that

581
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: for pass rushers, but they're you know, they would just

582
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 1: go win. There is a feel to it, there's an

583
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: awareness component to it. But if you were to talk

584
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: football with Trey Hendricks and TJ. Watt, Josh Allen Miles,

585
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: Garrett Max Crosby, you can have a deep football conversation

586
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: with those guys, and I would obviously throw the other

587
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: two in there as well. With with Mac and Hunter, well.

588
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: I think I think that is the thing that we're

589
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 3: seeing in the league, like, it's not just a talent.

590
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 3: I think the intelligence is a big part of it.

591
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 3: And we're not saying that you have to be graduating

592
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 3: from college with honors. I believe that the intelligence gives

593
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 3: you an opportunity to kind of develop a different set

594
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 3: of skills that allows you to be consistently dominant over time.

595
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 3: Because what you would like to think over to the

596
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 3: arc of a career, as your athleticism wanes, your knowledge

597
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 3: goes up, and your knowledge allows you to continue to

598
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 3: play well when your skills may be diminished a little bit.

599
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 3: I think these guys are all set up to have

600
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: success even in the later years of their career because

601
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 3: they have kind of developed a toolbox that will allow

602
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 3: them to sustain themselves for a long time.

603
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 2: No doubt.

604
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: All right, let's take quick break. We come back. We're

605
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: going to talk about a little the benefit of multi

606
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 1: sport athletes, and we're not talking high school kids. We're

607
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: tking NFL players will do that right after this, all right.

608
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 3: DJ, I text you the other day because I've read

609
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 3: an article on the Atlanta Falcons website. They were talking

610
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 3: about defensive back coach Jerry Gray, who's a friend of mine,

611
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: who's been doing this for a long time, was an

612
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 3: accomplished player himself, encouraging his secondary guys to go play

613
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 3: basketball in the off season because he believes that is

614
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 3: the best training for dbs. To put them on the

615
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 3: basketball court, to have them play man de man, to

616
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 3: play a little pickup, to do all the lateral stuff

617
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 3: to get the competitive edge going.

618
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 2: And all of that.

619
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 3: And DJ I was fascinated by because oftentimes we talk

620
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 3: about things in meeting rooms and scouting and we dig

621
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 3: into prospects background and what they did in high school

622
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 3: and where they multi sports stars, did they play basketball

623
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 3: or baseball?

624
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 2: Are dose things.

625
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 3: But to hear a pro coach encourage his pro players

626
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 3: to play basketball in the pros to me was a

627
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 3: little different. But I absolutely understand it when you look

628
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 3: at how basketball players have to play in the things

629
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 3: that you have to do to be a really good

630
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 3: basketball player.

631
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 1: So it's interesting that you right when you sent me this,

632
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: because my son is they were just finishing up. They've

633
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: they've already had graduation from high school, but they're fed

634
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: the last week of springball quote unquote before you start

635
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: your summer program, which you know about out and uh

636
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: so as they're getting ready to go into the summer

637
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: one of the things, and just kind of seeing the

638
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: kids at that age and this is not like a

639
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: powerhouse high school. But I was sitting there thinking like, Okay,

640
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 1: so they do their workouts, they'll they'll run, they'll have

641
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: their lift, they'll go out there on the field and

642
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: they're doing installing, you know all that stuff, team and

643
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And I was sitting there going, okay

644
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: for high school kids, like from a development standpoint, like

645
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: there are football fields right next to the gym. They

646
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: got three full court basketball so I'm like sitting there

647
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: going I think I think at least once a week,

648
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: buck I would say, hey, we're going to open up

649
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: the gym. We have all three courts and we'll have

650
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: we're gonna run, we're gonna go, I'm gonna I'm gonna

651
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: pick up the teams. I'm gonna make the teams because

652
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: I want different guys to be together and get to

653
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: know your teammates and different things like that. But we're

654
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: going to play pick up because I'm like, I don't

655
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: know that there's a better thing for you athletically. And

656
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: when we were growing up, like over the like we

657
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: played summer league. Like we played summer.

658
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 2: League in summer. That was part of it.

659
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were doing I wasn't doing seven on seven.

660
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: I was out playing basketball, and then it was now

661
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: was okay, now it's time for football season. I was

662
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: in shape because all I'd done is play basketball all

663
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: summer long, and it's so good for all your movement.

664
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I'm I'm a firm believer in that.

665
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: So when you sent me that article, I was like, man,

666
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: we're I'm kind of on the on the same wavelength there,

667
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: I know.

668
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I know, yes, So it was great to

669
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 3: see pros encourage that. I do remember playing uh and pro.

670
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 3: When I was in Kansas City, we would go to

671
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 3: a gym at Overland Park and shoot hoops. Dale Carter

672
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 3: and Andre Risen and every Tony Gonzalez, everyone just playing

673
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 3: pick up. When we were in Green Bay, we had

674
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 3: a gym inside the stadium where we could go shoot

675
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 3: hoops and that was always a big part of like

676
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 3: what we did, and it was encouraged. Hey guys, we

677
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 3: can play a little five on five and those things.

678
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 3: Take care of yourself, don't do silly stuff, but hey

679
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: play a little bit and do that stuff. And I

680
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 3: just think it's it's another example of how you can

681
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 3: benefit from doing different things. I think what also came

682
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 3: out of that article, I don't know if you saw it,

683
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 3: but Jesse Bates, Jesse Bates, who outstanding Safety was terrific

684
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 3: when it came out of way for us, and then

685
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 3: going to Cincinnati before we went to Atlanta, he talked

686
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: about being a three sports star. So he not only

687
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 3: does basketball in the off season, but he has played

688
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 3: a little beer league softball. Because he talked about and

689
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 3: we've talked about it, he said, reading the ball off

690
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 3: the bat is no different than reading.

691
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: The throw from the quarterback's arm.

692
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 3: If you and I have talked about free safeties that

693
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: have played baseball, guys that can get interceptions because they

694
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 3: can read the ball, the flight of the ball in

695
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: the air. And so I'm reading this article, I'm like, man,

696
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 3: we have a pro coach confirming all of the things

697
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 3: that we've talked about at the lower levels and why

698
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 3: guys should play multiple sports. You know, the issue that

699
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: you have is some coaches don't encourage that. Not the

700
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 3: football coaches, but sometimes you don't get great cooperation from

701
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 3: the basketball and baseball coach to allow your guys to

702
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: kind of bounce around and be part time players during

703
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 3: certain times of the year, but the benefits are all

704
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 3: there for guys to really do a bunch of different

705
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: things because the skills that develop and playing all the

706
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 3: sports certainly translates well to football.

707
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. I when I was I don't think I

708
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: ever told this store, but when I was transferred, So

709
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: I was at Northeast Louisiana and then I was, Uh,

710
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: I finished. So I read shirt a year, played my

711
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: red shirt freshman year, and then decided I was gonna

712
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: transfer the semester. I had opportunities to go places for

713
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: that spring, but didn't didn't. I wasn't in love with

714
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: the schools that that that I had that opportunity with.

715
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: So I'm like, you know, I'm gonna be patient. There'll

716
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: be more opportunities to open up over the summer. So

717
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: I took a semester off. So I took a semester.

718
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: I came home and so I was, I was lifting

719
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: with a guy and uh, you know, working out with him,

720
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: but I wanted to just kind of stay. I wanted

721
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: to be in a competitive environment. And then I wanted

722
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: to stay in shape, like in cardio shape. So so

723
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: they had like where our high school is is also

724
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: a college, which is San Diego Christian College, which is NAI.

725
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: So I just went to the basketball coach and I

726
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: was like, hey, is there right? If I had just

727
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: run with you guys, like, I was happy just to

728
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: go out there and just run conditioning with him, just

729
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: just run. He let me practice with him for probably

730
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: maybe like three or four weeks, like a month. That's fine,

731
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: so buck, I mean, And the funny thing is like

732
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: I was a good high school basketball player. And then

733
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: I was kind of laughing about this because the Austin

734
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: Rivers thing, and I know, everybody get all the football,

735
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: we all everybody football gets up in arms like that's insulting.

736
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, just n AIA level basketball.

737
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: I'm like, frek, it's hard to get my shot off

738
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: out here. Everybody six six five. So then I just determined.

739
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: I was like, look, I'm like I'm gonna I'm gonna

740
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: play defense. I'm gonna play defense. I'm gonna distribute the ball,

741
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: set screens, I'm gonna go try and get rebound whatever

742
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: I can do. But I was like, like the scoring

743
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: that like the fun DJ high school scoring days like

744
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: that ain't happening out here. And I mean because I

745
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: had and I had been away for a year and

746
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: a half, but the the that got me in great

747
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: shape for when I went to the summer out when

748
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: I ended up going to Apps D and went out

749
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: there in the summer, that basketball had had me in

750
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: good cardio shape for somebody who hadn't been in school

751
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: in a semester.

752
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 3: No, So it's funny because I think, and so this

753
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 3: is why I couldn't understand the outrage, right, I couldn't

754
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 3: understand the outrage with Austin Rivers' comments about basketball players

755
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 3: being able to come into the league but football players

756
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 3: would have a tougher time because I'm like DJ, like

757
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 3: one just from the sheer size basketball players.

758
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: Like it's it's just a different game.

759
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 3: And I got the tremendous respect for like football, I

760
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 3: love football, but I also understand the limitations going over

761
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 3: to the hoop court.

762
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: It is a completely different game, and.

763
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: Like it's one thing. Like our best like Julius Peppers

764
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: and Tony Gonzalez, like Hall of famers, some of the

765
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: best players we've ever had, and they were athletic enough

766
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: to be functional basketball players. Antonio Gates is like, went

767
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: from the basketball world not having played football at all,

768
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,959
Speaker 1: Jimmy Graham not having these one of them the Hall

769
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: of Famer, the other one is a perennial pro bowler.

770
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: Like that's it's just different. I don't and.

771
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: We're football people. But that's so that's why, man, that's

772
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 3: why I can't. That's why I can't understand our reage.

773
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 3: And we were kind of on hiatus when when it happened.

774
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: But I was like, I said, Austin Rivers is right.

775
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: There.

776
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 2: They are more.

777
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 3: There are more guys that could come over from that,

778
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 3: And everyone's like, oh, what Titan is the only position? No,

779
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 3: DJ Imagine if I could take a Russell Westbrook and

780
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 3: put him at corner and I said, hey, we're gonna

781
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 3: give you two years to develop to do I mean,

782
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 3: just think about just the athleticism and the other stuff

783
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 3: that they possessed playing man to man, just being like.

784
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: Hey, you know what, We're just gonna play man to man.

785
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: You don't even have to worry about anything.

786
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 3: We're gonna play bump and run, which is no different

787
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 3: than you just playing man to man and making them

788
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 3: zigzag up and down the court. So to me, I

789
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: was just like, hey, guys, like, let's be real. And

790
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 3: I know there's a physical element and all of those

791
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 3: things to it, but athletically you don't think in time

792
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 3: with development. If we say, hey, we're gonna give you

793
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 3: two years on the practice squad, we're gonna teach you

794
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 3: how to play from the ground level up, and we

795
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 3: couldn't get that done.

796
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 2: Like we're being we're being ridiculous.

797
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: I mean I haven't been Yeah, I have not been

798
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: to a ton. I have not been to a ton

799
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: of NBA games in my life. But I was at

800
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: and I've told you this story before. I was in

801
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 1: Miami for the Eastern Conference Finals with Chicago and Miami

802
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: and when I saw a healthy Derreck Rose and I

803
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: was down about I had great seats. I was maybe

804
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: ten rows up from the from the baseline, and when

805
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: I saw his bounce in person. And I've spent twenty

806
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: years around the NFL and been on the sideline for

807
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: Rezillion games and Ben Att training camps all over the

808
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's different. That's different. That is a different

809
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: level of explosiveness right there.

810
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 2: Okay, So I was not even.

811
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: Cal Lebron and d Wade who were at the height

812
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: of their powers at that time too.

813
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 3: I have the best story for you. So I just

814
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 3: moved to LA. I'm recently retired, and I go to

815
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 3: this gym. It used to be called Sports Club LA.

816
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 3: It's now Equinox, but it was the place where you

817
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 3: go to play hoops and all these NBA players would come.

818
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:02,479
Speaker 2: DJ.

819
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 3: Stefan Marbray comes into building. Now this is when Stephani.

820
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: I can't remember what the year, just when Stephan Marbury's arms.

821
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 3: He Starburry had just had double ankle surgery, right, so

822
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 3: he's just getting back. So I got to do it

823
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 3: to my team that.

824
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: Is mouthing off, right, I guess who's Garden Starbury.

825
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: You got to deal with it, right.

826
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: And DJ, I'm watching this guy and I'm going to

827
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: gett this guy and I'm like.

828
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 3: Hit his height and elevation on his jump shot, and

829
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,919
Speaker 3: then I'm like, okay, the football player, I'm gonna post

830
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 3: him up, right, DJ. He stuck his form in my

831
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 3: back and I remember moving from the block to almost

832
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 3: to the three point because I was like, how so

833
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm just saying, like the level of athleticism

834
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 3: that some of these guys have, Like we just got

835
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 3: to give them their credit and their flowers. And as

836
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 3: Jerry Gray talked about it being the best the best

837
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 3: place to develop, DB's like DJ, he's saying that a

838
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 3: football guy seeing the basketball court is the best place

839
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 3: to develop. So just imagine what athletes that have been

840
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 3: trained in that world, groomed in the world, what they

841
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 3: could offer. I just think it makes a lot of sense.

842
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 3: And even though we kind of veered into that lane,

843
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 3: I just think there are a bunch of benefits from

844
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 3: football players playing basketball and how it could help them

845
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 3: in between the lines.

846
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, but look, I get from the football standpoint, We're

847
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: a prideful community. We're a prideful bunch. It is a

848
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: physical it's a physical game. I get all that. But

849
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, just from the actual statement, there are

850
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: more basketball players that could play football than there are

851
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: football players who could play basketball. So just from and

852
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: that's just two football guys, two scouts, but.

853
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 3: It just from a just from a size standpoint, like

854
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 3: just from a size like six four in football would

855
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 3: be exceptional tall. Like when we talk about like tackles

856
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 3: or whatever, we get up to six seven or whatever,

857
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 3: like those guys are guards, you know what I mean,

858
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 3: Like it's just just.

859
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: Here's here's the thing, here's the thing. I'll just leave

860
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 1: it with this. My closing argument in defense of him,

861
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: in defense of Rivers, would be this, every NFL team

862
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: I've worked for and having friends all throughout the league,

863
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: I know every year we are looking, we are looking

864
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: at basketball players and trying to identify who we could

865
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: go after to bring into camp, who could compete for

866
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: a job. I've yet to hear an NBA scout. I've

867
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: yet to see one at a college football practice or

868
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: a college football game. Going, man, we just don't have

869
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: enough good athletes. We got to go over to this

870
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: football community, see we can find who could be a

871
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: point guard for us? And what do we got here? Never,

872
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: not once, not happening.

873
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: Sad but true, very sad, but very true. But I

874
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 2: love it.

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00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 3: I love this discussion. I love what Austin Rivers brought

876
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 3: into the mix. And I don't know why people saw

877
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: his disrespectful. I thought it was like, hey man, that's

878
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 3: a good comment, Like whatever, Yeah, and then Jerry Gray

879
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 3: encouraging his guys down in Atlanta to go shoot a

880
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 3: little hoop, have a little fun, get better.

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00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 2: I think it's all. I think it's all great, no doubt.

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00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: All right, that's gonna do it for us today. This

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00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: was a fun one. Hope you guys enjoyed it. We'll

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00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: be back. What is today? Buck Today? We're recording this

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00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 1: on Thursday. We'll be back next Monday, Nebil Tuesday. We'll

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00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: be back next Tuesday for a new podcast. So appreciate

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00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 1: you guys hanging with us all summer, and we'll catch

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00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: you next time right here on movie sticks.