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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Grading. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super

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Speaker 1: producer Alexi's code ename Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this the

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. It is the

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Speaker 1: top of what people these days are calling the week,

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Speaker 1: which means that it is Monday. If you are hearing

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Speaker 1: this the day it comes out, folks. As always, we

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Speaker 1: have original episodes coming to you twice a week, and

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Speaker 1: we want to take the time to uh you don't

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Speaker 1: get away from the episodes a little bit, give you

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Speaker 1: what we call strange news and listener mail segments once

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Speaker 1: each week to tell you what's on our minds, on

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Speaker 1: the world's minds, and as always, to tell you some

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Speaker 1: of the uh stuff that certain establishments may not want

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Speaker 1: you to know about the news. Uh. The Nation of

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Speaker 1: Japan is urging younger generations to get this drink more alcohol.

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Speaker 1: Texas has followed uh in all sorts of directions with UH,

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Speaker 1: with the letter of the law versus the spirit of

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Speaker 1: their religious intent. But we know that people are also

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Speaker 1: worried about water, which we predicted a number of years ago.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to any of that, we have

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Speaker 1: some housekeeping announcements here in the world of conspiracy realism.

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Speaker 1: Many of our fellow listeners have written to us and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I ordered the book. Thank you for doing so. By

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Speaker 1: the way, UH, but I am someone who likes to

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Speaker 1: encounter their books or experience them in an audio format, Matt. No,

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Speaker 1: people are asking whether we have an audio book, so

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Speaker 1: on behalf of everyone tuning in. Are the rumors true?

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Speaker 1: Do we have an audiobook? Can we Can we talk

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Speaker 1: about it? I think we can talk about it. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't exist in the world quite yet, but it will

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Speaker 1: very very soon. It is the audio version of the

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know book that will

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Speaker 1: be hitting shelves in a physical form on October eleven.

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Speaker 1: Preorder your copy now. Link available in our link tree

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Speaker 1: on Instagram. Um. But yeah, we each of the three

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Speaker 1: of us took our turns kind of round robbin ing

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Speaker 1: the chapters and you know, doing the audiobook version, and

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Speaker 1: I personally can say I had a blast doing it.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely different than just riffing on the podcast, but

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Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a really fun listen. That's right.

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Speaker 1: And if you want to celebrate the book coming out

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Speaker 1: by hanging out with us, We're going on a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a tour. We're gonna be in Atlanta on

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Speaker 1: October eleventh, in Washington, d C. On the thirte October,

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Speaker 1: and on the fourteenth in Plainville, Massachusetts. Check out the website.

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Speaker 1: Stuff you should read books dot com again, stuff you

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Speaker 1: should read books dot com to check out those tour

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Speaker 1: dates and register to hang out with us today. And

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Speaker 1: for everyone who's written in across the world, say hey,

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Speaker 1: can you get over to London? Can you get over

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Speaker 1: to Denver? Can you get over to Kinshasha? Uh? Can

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Speaker 1: you get over to Perth? We would love to and

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Speaker 1: to do so. The best way to be the change

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Speaker 1: you wish to see in the world is to right

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Speaker 1: to us at Conspiracy at I Heart radio dot com.

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Speaker 1: I have no compunction about forwarding those messages and saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: put us on the road because we love hanging out

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Speaker 1: together in person. We are actual friends. And when we

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Speaker 1: say we're actual friends, we're counting you in that crew. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So we would we would love to be part of

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Speaker 1: your day to day experience and we are grateful that

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Speaker 1: you are a part of ours also like by the book,

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Speaker 1: and then our our overlords will be like, Yo, book

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Speaker 1: sales are doing well, let's send you to Perth. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was tasting. That's the best way to get us there.

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Speaker 1: Pre order a ton of books in your city. Now,

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Speaker 1: tell your friends, tell your drug dealer, tell your parole officer. Uh,

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Speaker 1: tell your telling that handler at the at the company.

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Speaker 1: Because I don't know if you guys heard this. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we are on this show. A lot of our fellow

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Speaker 1: listeners are tuning in and one of the front ads

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Speaker 1: they're getting, which I'll talk about later in a few weeks,

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Speaker 1: when the front ads they're getting is a c I

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Speaker 1: A recruitment ad, which is so interesting because back in

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Speaker 1: my day, they weren't doing ads on podcasts. But story

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Speaker 1: for another time. We would also that happened on our

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Speaker 1: show in twenty fifteen or sixteen as well. What have

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Speaker 1: you did it? At least a few of you are

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Speaker 1: company folks. Now, congratulations, stay safe, don't believe your bosses. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: we also have been on the road, as you've heard,

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Speaker 1: and uh, a couple of us traveled out to Texas. Texas,

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Speaker 1: the lone star state is always going to be a

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Speaker 1: chock full of stuff they don't want you to know. Recently,

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Speaker 1: know you encountered something not just in one state, but

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Speaker 1: in a couple that I think I would like to say,

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Speaker 1: not to speak for all of us, but I would

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Speaker 1: like to go on air saying it gave me a

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Speaker 1: chuckle because we have an upcoming secret episode about a

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Speaker 1: related topic. What is that secret episode, you may be asking, Well,

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Speaker 1: if you order the book last time, I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna shill forward on this on this strange news segment.

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Speaker 1: If you order the book, you'll be able to hear

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Speaker 1: that secret episode. If not, they're just gonna have to

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Speaker 1: read some tea leaves about the story we are about

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Speaker 1: to share. Yeah, I mean, look, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: use the term book band right up front, because that's

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Speaker 1: like super loaded. But there are some laws swirling around

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Speaker 1: um certain states and in our fair union, uh, one

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Speaker 1: of which is Texas, that are seeking to make it

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Speaker 1: a little easier for the powers that be to remove

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Speaker 1: certain books from the libraries you know of of young people. God,

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Speaker 1: it's sounding like a grandpapa young people. Um, but it's true,

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Speaker 1: Like we've always all of us, you know, have grown up,

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Speaker 1: um reading books that were assigned to us and certain

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Speaker 1: ones that others maybe we're a little controversial, things like

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Speaker 1: Lord of the Flies for example. Um, certain books like uh,

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Speaker 1: you know exactly, books that you know are a little

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Speaker 1: edgy potentially or have some other lore kind of associated

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Speaker 1: with them. Catching the Right for example, is a book

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Speaker 1: that often is associated with like school shooters, even though

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Speaker 1: the South Park episode the sort of like lampoons, that

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Speaker 1: whole thing points out that nothing really that remarkable happens

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Speaker 1: in the book. He doesn't school shoot he doesn't really

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Speaker 1: hurt anybody. He just sort of got a bad attitude. Um.

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Speaker 1: But it is a book that, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: right hands, can kind of like you know, give way

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Speaker 1: to a certain mindset of being, you know, other of

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Speaker 1: being like the person that everyone else is out to get. Um.

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Speaker 1: So it's easy if you're looking for blood and guts

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Speaker 1: and gore, get a book like that. It's sort of laughable.

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Speaker 1: But there are things in books that that can be

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Speaker 1: dangerous in the wrong hands or the right hands, I guess,

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Speaker 1: but that's the point of literature. We're able to, you know,

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Speaker 1: make our own decisions. Um. But certain people in in

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Speaker 1: power school boards and the like and the governing bodies

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Speaker 1: you know that governed school boards think that certain books

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Speaker 1: maybe should not be in the hands of young people

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Speaker 1: in places like Texas and Florida that tends to have

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Speaker 1: a lean towards puritanical kind of religious ideology, whereas like

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Speaker 1: the idea of being indoctrinated you know, by the left

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Speaker 1: or or something like that. Um. And this new kind

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Speaker 1: of you know, smattering of laws that have been making

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Speaker 1: the rounds really seeks to empower school boards to uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, have a heavier hand in pulling books from libraries.

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Speaker 1: And in Texas in particular, a school called Keller I.

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Speaker 1: S d Um was a really interesting case study in

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Speaker 1: one of these laws. Essentially they've had this for a while, UM,

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Speaker 1: where you know, they're there individuals that have like these

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Speaker 1: kind of committees that examined books that are you know,

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Speaker 1: on the shelves in school libraries and say, okay, we

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Speaker 1: need to like take a closer look at these. But

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Speaker 1: apparently this had already happened the previous year. A lot

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Speaker 1: of these books had already kind of made the cut,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden with this new law, uh,

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Speaker 1: they were re examined. And the irony here is that

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Speaker 1: one of these books was the Bible. The the Bible

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Speaker 1: all versions. In fact, an email that's circulated from the district,

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Speaker 1: you know, the school board there, Keller I s D

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Speaker 1: in the district they're part of. UM had a kind

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Speaker 1: of like a spreadsheet with a lot of these books

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Speaker 1: that needed to have another look given to them. And

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Speaker 1: it literally says the Bible in parentheses, all versions. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, like, is this an oversight? Like this

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Speaker 1: is clearly the reporting on this. This is from about

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Speaker 1: two weeks ago, but I think this is like a

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Speaker 1: larger conversation. The Bible was not banned in Texas schools.

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Speaker 1: That that is a very alarmist view, but the fact

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Speaker 1: that like whatever kind of broad stroke, kind of blunt

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Speaker 1: instrument approach to censoring books or towards taking a very

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Speaker 1: keen eye towards material that is inappropriate quote unquote for students,

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Speaker 1: somehow this one got caught up in the net UM.

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Speaker 1: So this email that went out said attached or a

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Speaker 1: list of books challenged that's the word they use, or

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Speaker 1: the term challenged this year. By the end of today,

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Speaker 1: I need all the books pulled from the library and classrooms.

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Speaker 1: More information will be sent regarding actions uh for these

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Speaker 1: books and UH. Included in that list was the Bible

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Speaker 1: all versions and and Frank's Diary, not the book though,

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Speaker 1: a graphic novel adaptation, which is interesting because it makes

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Speaker 1: me think this is a very imprecise kind of methodology

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Speaker 1: that goes into this because there were there was controversy

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Speaker 1: around and Frank's Diary in the past, not because of

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Speaker 1: what it said about, you know, the Nazis and because

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Speaker 1: of violence or whatever, specifically because in a certain version

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Speaker 1: of the book and Frank talks about getting her period,

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Speaker 1: and uh, there were certain people that thought that was

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Speaker 1: inappropriate for kids of a certain age to to hear about,

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Speaker 1: you know, a young woman getting her period. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: does that does that not feel a bit disingenuous at most?

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Speaker 1: I mean that, you know, full disclosure. I recently visited

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Speaker 1: the m. Frank uh house and this, Uh, it just

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Speaker 1: feels as though someone were trying to find a reason

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Speaker 1: to have a problem like Okay, let's walk through the

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Speaker 1: structural reasoning the idea there. Will be very quick about this. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: the the idea there is, Hey, I have no problem

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Speaker 1: with children learning firsthand about the dangers of genocide, but

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Speaker 1: I don't want, for some reason, I don't want to say,

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Speaker 1: the authorities, uh for people to know about the idea

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Speaker 1: of menstruation, despite the fact that roughly half of the

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Speaker 1: reading audience is going to have firsthand knowledge about that experience,

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Speaker 1: if not while they're reading very soon. What do you

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Speaker 1: do as authority? You treat that as Santa Claus. It

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Speaker 1: just feels very insincere, But that that is, it was

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Speaker 1: a long time ago that that was the issue at hand.

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Speaker 1: The same with like that book Mouse, graphic novel Mouse,

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Speaker 1: which is about you know, Nazism from the perspective of

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Speaker 1: these like kind of anthropomorphized uh mice characters, which is

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Speaker 1: a you know, very powerful piece of graphic literature. Um.

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Speaker 1: But perhaps there was some bad language, or there was

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Speaker 1: something in it that was visually disturbing or whatever. But

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Speaker 1: how the Bible made this list is simultaneously bonkers to

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Speaker 1: me and also makes a lot of sense because what

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Speaker 1: book yeah, yeah, yeah, the swastika that's on there. Understand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well there's a beef story about Mels. But moving on it.

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Speaker 1: As you're saying the let's get back to the Bible.

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Speaker 1: I mean, of of all the books that are could

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Speaker 1: potentially be banned, I mean, the Bible is full of

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Speaker 1: sex and violence and misery. And I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: our Christ, our Lord and Savior, was nailed to across

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Speaker 1: and you know, stabbed in the side, and and and

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Speaker 1: well you know, I'm in the parlance of Christians, Christianity, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, forced to wear a crown of thorns. I mean,

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Speaker 1: as we all know, the Mel Gibson film The Passion

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Speaker 1: of the Christ. Uh, it was massively popular amongst the

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Speaker 1: Christian community, but would you really watch it? It is

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Speaker 1: ultimately like torture porn. It is incredibly sadistic in the

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Speaker 1: violence that it portrays. So I do think it's interesting that,

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Speaker 1: like the Bible is unimpeachable in terms of like literature,

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Speaker 1: but the fact that it made the list here is

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Speaker 1: very fascinating to me, Like, what is the mechanism of

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Speaker 1: discerning you know, what is it is not appropriate for

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Speaker 1: young people to have access to in the library, especially

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Speaker 1: in a state like Texas, where obviously you know, Jesus

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Speaker 1: is everything, and like you know, religion, religion is a

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Speaker 1: massive mover and shaper of policy and ideology and upbringing

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Speaker 1: and all of that good stuff. So it makes me

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Speaker 1: really question what the mechanism of looking through and deciding

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Speaker 1: what books. It feels like someone made a mistake. And

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Speaker 1: it obviously was a very sexy headline to say Texas

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Speaker 1: bands the Bible, like have we gone too far? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you could say yes, but then if you look at

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Speaker 1: Snopes like, no, Texas did not ban the Bible. It

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Speaker 1: got momentarily pulled. But even the physical act of pulling

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Speaker 1: the Bible from a libraryes and that seem like heresy

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Speaker 1: to you, or would seem like to some I don't

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Speaker 1: know your hands of our Bible. That's interesting the version uh.

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Speaker 1: Christian authorities historically are the most likely to pull uh

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Speaker 1: Christian lore to which they object. That's the whole reason

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Speaker 1: that there's apocrypha right versus canonical books. But still, yes,

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. It does seem um kind of reflexive, reactive,

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Speaker 1: and it does make for a good headline. It also

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Speaker 1: makes for a good clarion call. Education is one of

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Speaker 1: the most vital battle grounds of any civilization throughout history.

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Speaker 1: Not for nothing was it illegal for certain classes of

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Speaker 1: different civilizations past to possess the power of literacy, which

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Speaker 1: is very much a superpower. And this, this means, like this,

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Speaker 1: I think shows us how yeah, I'll do it, how

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Speaker 1: devilishly easy it is to remove one's access to education.

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Speaker 1: For anybody who doesn't realize what a what a big deal,

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Speaker 1: this is, how existential this is. I do recommend checking

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Speaker 1: out our previous episode on the war over textbooks, because

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Speaker 1: all textbooks are not telling you and your children the

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Speaker 1: same stories. Oh and Matt, you know, I know you

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Speaker 1: have a Christian background, and you know, I know that

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Speaker 1: you probably took great effort to like read the Bible

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Speaker 1: and digest the Bible and you know, did Bible study,

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Speaker 1: and we're you know, encouraged to do so. But was

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Speaker 1: there was there ever a point in your upbringing or

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Speaker 1: you were questioning, like, wow, this is kind of messed

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Speaker 1: up the stuff that's in here, But not in terms

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Speaker 1: of like ideology, was in terms of content, in terms

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Speaker 1: of like the violence and the and the sex and

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Speaker 1: like the you know, the kind of depravity that is

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Speaker 1: represented in the pages of the of the Bible. Uh No,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of my study was guided by, like

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Speaker 1: at least early on, by the Methodist Church and what

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Speaker 1: the Methodist Church was instructing pastors throughout the country to

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Speaker 1: you know, teach that week or that month or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And often you're so focused in on you know, a

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Speaker 1: handful of stories that you don't even venture out into

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Speaker 1: the other territory unless you're doing it on your own.

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Speaker 1: And when you encounter it on your own, you have

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Speaker 1: a lot of questions, right like I did. I was

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Speaker 1: always like, what what does that mean? Why? Why is

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Speaker 1: this in here? But I would never go to a

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Speaker 1: pastor or someone who knew better than me and say hey,

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Speaker 1: why It was just like I just leave that over

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Speaker 1: here in my cognitive Uh, I don't know, it is

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Speaker 1: very curated. I grew up in the Methodist Church as well,

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Speaker 1: and it's all these little exercises and things that guide you,

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Speaker 1: and they they give you the That's why everything in

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Speaker 1: the Bible is like citable. It's all these like chapter

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Speaker 1: and verse, you know, because it's all meant to be

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Speaker 1: taken in these little nuggets. But when you read the

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Speaker 1: whole thing, taken as a whole it does beget a

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Speaker 1: lot of questions and a lot of like contradictions that

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Speaker 1: that you know, you want to know why they exist,

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Speaker 1: and they're sort of like, pay no attention to the

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Speaker 1: man behind the curtain, just look at this one and

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Speaker 1: then like do your little workbook assignment and then move on.

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Speaker 1: You know, like that's kind of the attitude. So it

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Speaker 1: is interesting to me that no one in um religious upbringing,

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Speaker 1: typically you know as as kids, encourages kids to read

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Speaker 1: the whole Bible. That is not a thing. They don't

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Speaker 1: give you a book report to read the whole Bible.

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Speaker 1: They make you study little parts. I uh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: will soft pushed back about that because there are many

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Speaker 1: Christians that I know who were just like kids in Islam.

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Speaker 1: They were they were tasked with reading the entirety and

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Speaker 1: welcomed uh to ask questions. I I personally do not

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Speaker 1: ascribe to Christianity myself, but I have read multiple versions

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Speaker 1: of the vibe the Bible, including the most famous ones

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Speaker 1: in Western Cannon, like the all People Love the King

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Speaker 1: James Bible. Nowadays you know they're all translations, uh, And

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Speaker 1: I remain although again I don't personally ascribe to a

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Speaker 1: lot of those beliefs. I remain grateful for the people

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Speaker 1: who said, read the whole book before you disagree with it,

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Speaker 1: ask us the questions, and let's let's explore them together.

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Speaker 1: And I think I think that kind of thought, that

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Speaker 1: structural application of thought is a big piece of our show.

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Speaker 1: I did not know you were both raised Methodists. Refresh

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Speaker 1: my memory that denomination does baptism by sprinkling holy water, right,

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Speaker 1: rather than by dunking somewhat water. Right. That's it's like

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Speaker 1: soft back, just kind of it's like Baptist. Their Baptist

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Speaker 1: religion is a little more um hard in the paint,

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Speaker 1: and Methodism is a little softer and more like you know, accessible,

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Speaker 1: I would argue, would say somber and uh serious about it.

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Speaker 1: It is, but it also has praise and worship bands

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Speaker 1: and youth group and youth tacos and stuff like, you know,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't have all the pomp and circumstance of a

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Speaker 1: Baptist you know, church service. It has much more of

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Speaker 1: this like modern kind of like you know, like the

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Speaker 1: Righteous Gemstones are probably meant to be Methodists. They don't

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Speaker 1: really go and talk about that in the show, but

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Speaker 1: that is the experience that I had with methodism where

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Speaker 1: it's like this wow mazow kind of like production of

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Speaker 1: like you know, rock and roll, kind of like like

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Speaker 1: youth group bands and stuff I have, Like, I know

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Speaker 1: that we have many many people who are adherence to

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Speaker 1: many many feasts uh in our audience today. And folks, UH,

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Speaker 1: if you have ever found yourself saying based on an

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Speaker 1: excerpt of something that has maybe been spun or presented

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Speaker 1: or curated for you based on excerptive religious text, if

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Speaker 1: you find yourself completely objecting to it, then I will say,

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Speaker 1: and I I do not really practice advice. I will

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Speaker 1: say as an observation that if you intellectually respect yourself,

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Speaker 1: and you intellectually respect those with whom you disagree, you

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Speaker 1: should respect those uh, then you owe it to yourself

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Speaker 1: as a dissenter to say I am informed. I again,

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Speaker 1: have read multiple religious texts. I I read the Bible

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Speaker 1: in full, and look, I'm gonna tell you it's uneven writing.

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Speaker 1: There's some really there's some real sexy stuff like the

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Speaker 1: Book of Songs. There's some real there's a couple of

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Speaker 1: things that are all just this person begat, this person

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Speaker 1: who begat this person. Uh. And I first part that old,

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Speaker 1: that old part. And there are some literal things like

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Speaker 1: the tree of life, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ also

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Speaker 1: on a thing that functions visually very much like a tree.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting, and if you disagree with something, you owe

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Speaker 1: it to yourself to understand that with which you disagree.

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Speaker 1: Not for nothing did Lucifer say, non serfium, I brought

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Speaker 1: it back. We're talking about that affair. Okay, I did it?

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Speaker 1: All right? Yeah, that's a great word. I will ask

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Speaker 1: you you guys this um. Are there versions of the

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Speaker 1: Koran versions in the way there are of the Bible

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Speaker 1: to be able to even say in parentheses all versions?

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Speaker 1: That implies And we know that King James version has

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Speaker 1: a spin, just like you mentioned earlier. Been our textbooks

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Speaker 1: have spins depending on the the ideology of you know,

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Speaker 1: the school board or whatever. Which parts we want to

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Speaker 1: leave ours parts we want to like big up or whatever? Like?

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Speaker 1: Does the Koran have versions? It's okay, I can I

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Speaker 1: can answer this. That what I want our fellow followers

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Speaker 1: of Islam, and I want a fellow Muslims in the

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Speaker 1: crowd two to write in and talk about this, because

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Speaker 1: there are canonically not different versions of the Quran. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There are different versions of reciting it, right, and there

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Speaker 1: are different versions of the idea of of the true

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Speaker 1: representative philosophy laid down by the prophet. The most well

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Speaker 1: known in the West would be Sunni and Shia, right.

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Speaker 1: But that's not the same thing as you see in uh,

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Speaker 1: you know LDS, or as you see in a Anglican

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Speaker 1: interpretation or a Baptist interpretation of the Christian Bible, which

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Speaker 1: is already sort of uh, it's sort of the remix

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Speaker 1: of ancient Judaic text with this new you know, it's

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Speaker 1: the double album. Maybe I'm asking kind of a silly

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Speaker 1: question because obviously, like in um, in translation, you're going

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Speaker 1: to have different versions. Like the very act of translation

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Speaker 1: is inherently a version, and the translator, you know, has

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Speaker 1: a lot of power, which is why the Karate is

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Speaker 1: only Karate if it's in Arabic, that's right. But with

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Speaker 1: the Bible, you have like the King James version, which

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Speaker 1: we know is a massive spin on like the content

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Speaker 1: of the Bible at the behest of King James, you know,

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Speaker 1: like to kind of like use that as a as

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Speaker 1: a as a means to kind of like enact some

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Speaker 1: of his um, you know, policies and ideas. So I

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Speaker 1: just we're kind of getting in the weeds here. But

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Speaker 1: I do think it's interesting to think about the Bible

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Speaker 1: in the same way we think about the way textbooks

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Speaker 1: are presenting a certain narrative. And the thing that's interesting

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Speaker 1: about the Bible to me too, is like some parts

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Speaker 1: are very historical record documentation of historical events, and some

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Speaker 1: parts of it are these like parables or like, you know,

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Speaker 1: is it real? Did it really happen? They don't really

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Speaker 1: tell you in the text. You have to kind of

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Speaker 1: decide for yourself. And then we have in the same way,

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Speaker 1: like we have lawmakers that are strict constructionists of the Constitution.

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Speaker 1: They look at it as if it's if it's written

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Speaker 1: down and that's the thing and there's no room for interpretation.

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Speaker 1: There are people that look at the Bible that way too,

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Speaker 1: like if it's in the Bible, then it definitely happened.

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Speaker 1: Um in terms of like Noah's Ark and you know,

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Speaker 1: the Whale and all of that stuff, which clearly if

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Speaker 1: you look at it from a place of pop culture,

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Speaker 1: that's the stories that stuff is like it meant to

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Speaker 1: teach a lesson, but I don't think Noah made an

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Speaker 1: arc and put all the animals on it, you know, not,

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Speaker 1: what do you think about that side of it? Just

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Speaker 1: about Noah's ark or the literal just about like the

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Speaker 1: parts of the Bible that are clearly literal and the

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Speaker 1: parts of the Bible that are like these massively spectacular tales.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they're the best parts of the book in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, there are also Probably One of the main

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Speaker 1: reasons I kind of lost my religion a little bit

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Speaker 1: was because it was trying to square what was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be taken literally and what was supposed to be

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Speaker 1: a parable what was in my mind clearly a made

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Speaker 1: up story to make a point, I guess, or to

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Speaker 1: teach a lesson um, and then not being able to

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Speaker 1: really discern what was which. That's that's where I had

428
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: my cognitive dissonance. But you know enough about me, uh no,

429
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: And to not have the person guiding you along be

430
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: able to tell you the difference maybe like and and

431
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: why these things didn't square with you. You didn't have

432
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: anybody that could explain to you the way you felt. Yeah, yeah,

433
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: well listen, we have to move on. But I want

434
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: to just part and parcel to we're talking about here Florida. Also,

435
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: one of these laws created a situation where they are

436
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: refusing donations of dictionaries. What could be a more innocuous

437
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: text than a dictionary? It just that's my whole point

438
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: is like what is a rubric for? Like what texts

439
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: are we rejecting versus what texts are we like welcoming?

440
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: And if a dictionary is getting banned again, not banned,

441
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: but like questions were like, oh, we're putting a pause

442
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: on accepting dictionaries for the for the time being. Um,

443
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 1: then then where is the cut off? Like at what

444
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: point are we just like losing it, losing the plot

445
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 1: in terms of like what literature and text actually is for.

446
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: It's a great point. All right, Well let's take a

447
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: quick break and then we'll be back with more strange news.

448
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: And we're back and for this story, we are traveling

449
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: to Jackson, Mississippi. So it's a pretty great city. Actually,

450
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: I don't have you guys ever been to Jackson? Yes,

451
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: in a lot of songs Jackson. Alright, okay, cool, Well yeah,

452
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: but we're going to Jackson because the citizens there are

453
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 1: going through a crisis similar to citizens of other cities

454
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: in the United States and across the world. Uh, there

455
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: are a lot of crises going on right now, and

456
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: there have been for quite a while. This one is

457
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: probably closest to the coverage we've done before on Flint, Michigan,

458
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: and a couple of other cities that are going through

459
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: water treatment plant crises. Um dang, Jackson is just it

460
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: seems like it's getting hit just blow after blow. There

461
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: was recently a lot of flooding in Jackson and other

462
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: parts of central Mississippi. The Pearl River flooded due to

463
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: just record rainfall that was occurring around that time, and

464
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: all of that water coming through Jackson caused some serious

465
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: issues with their water treatment system. And well, I guess

466
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: I'll let the Governor of Mississippi really sum it up

467
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: for us. On Monday, as we record this, Monday, August

468
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: twenty nine, there was an emergency press briefing given by

469
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: the Mississippi Governor, Tate Reeves, and this is what he said, quote,

470
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: please stay safe, do not drink the water. Yeah seriously,

471
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: like that alone, Good God. In too many cases it

472
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: is raw water from the reservoir being pushed through the pipes.

473
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: Be smart, protect yourself, Protect your family, preserve water, look

474
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: out for your fellow man, and look out for your neighbors,

475
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: and God save America. That's crazy. That's Independence Day level

476
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: of speech right there. That is wild. Yeah, it's like

477
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: a sorry. I hate when people say correct. No, yeah,

478
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: right on, I agree with you. This is also for

479
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: anybody unfamiliar with Mississippi in the US, this is the

480
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: largest city in that state. We are talking about just

481
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: one city with more than a hundred and sixty thousand residents.

482
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: If you look at the metro area, then that means

483
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: that this water issue affects way more than two thousand people.

484
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: This is serious. Yeah, the latest estimates I saw were

485
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: around a eighty thousand, but you're right, like up to

486
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: two thousand who are being affected directly by this. I'm

487
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: gonna continue with the governor's quote just a little bit

488
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: more because it shows why he's speaking in such a

489
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: dire manner. The governor said quote, until it is fixed,

490
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: we do not have reliable running water at scale. The

491
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: city cannot provide enough water to fight fires, to flush toilets,

492
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: and to meet other critical needs like that that alone,

493
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: like restaurants don't have water the tap when you turn

494
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: it on the water pressure is so low that barely

495
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: anything comes out, and when it does come out, it's

496
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: like it's raw water from the giant reservoir that is

497
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: just northeast of the city. Um, where the Pearl River

498
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: comes out of as its flow, which is not a

499
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: marketing thing. But by raw water we mean untreated. So

500
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: it is. Yes, it is complete a dice roll. And

501
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: let's be honest, if you live in the US, you

502
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: know this. It is a loaded dice roll. As to

503
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: whether this stuff has effluence jumping right, effluence would be dumping,

504
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: as as whether as possible bacterial contaminants, all the stuff

505
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: that would have been filtered out by wastewater treatment or

506
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: just water treatment, the types of things where you see

507
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: like fish advisories like because the fish like are pumped

508
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: full of merkety, that's because they exist in a part

509
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: of the of the river or whatever body of water

510
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: that has not been filtered in this way. We are

511
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: not meant to drink that water and we should not

512
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: eat those fish. No. Um. So, guys, if you just

513
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: think about that situation, you think about the economic impact

514
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: it's going to have on the city of Jackson, Like

515
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: the hospitality industry the entire thing is it's going to

516
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: have to be put on pause again after going through

517
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: the COVID break basically in in profits there that that

518
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: it's had. Um, you think about the each individual person

519
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: in individual parents who are trying to you know, what

520
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: do you do for your kid while you get bottled water?

521
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: And that's one of the only things you can do

522
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: or some other type of water product, right because you

523
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: can't just turn on tap anywhere in the entire city

524
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 1: and get water. And the Federal Emergency Management Agency FEMA

525
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: is headed there. They've been there this whole week attempting

526
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: to hand out as much bottled water as they can, obviously,

527
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: and you know, you can kind of predict this and

528
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: you know this, but there's not enough bottled water to

529
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: go around. And it's just the nature of tempting a

530
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: herculean effort like that. Um, it's just it's not enough.

531
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: The National Guard has even been called in by the governor,

532
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: even Joe Biden. President Joe Biden declared an emergency recently

533
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: this week. I believe that was yesterday today, yesterday. It's

534
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,479
Speaker 1: a big deal. And this this is all happening, by

535
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: the way, after a month a month of water boil

536
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: advisory in Jackson. Guys, we live in Atlanta. We've been

537
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: through our share of water boil advisories, and you know,

538
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: generally when you experience one of those, at least that

539
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: I've been through personally, it's a couple of days week

540
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: maximum when there's been some kind of natural disaster or

541
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: just something really bad that's come through the city. But

542
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: can you imagine a full month, and when they do

543
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: it here or another, you know places, it usually feels

544
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: like in an abundance of caution, we advise you boil

545
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: your water. It would be a good idea, or drink

546
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: bottled water as opposed to definitely don't drink the water.

547
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: And may God have mercy on your soul? Um Can

548
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: we also point out that Jackson, Mississippi is any two

549
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: point four seven percent African American and it's demographic makeup. Yes, yes,

550
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: we can't. This is true. It's it's really bad. This

551
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: is a breaking story. So there's gonna be a lot

552
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: more development, probably even by the time you hear this

553
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: story when it comes out on the Monday that year

554
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: hearing it. But we're we're trying to just stay on

555
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: top of it and follow it as much as possible.

556
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: I would highly recommend heading over to Mississippi Today dot org.

557
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: It's a really great nonprofit news site where there's just

558
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: tons of information being pumped out. It appears to be

559
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: really great reporting, at least to my eyes there is.

560
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: There's so many articles they've written. It's Alex Rosier or

561
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: rose Er Rosier, I'm not exactly sure how you say it,

562
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: but writing alongside Bobby Harrison, Kaylee Skinner and a couple others.

563
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,959
Speaker 1: They're just answering questions for people of Mississippi. So people

564
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,959
Speaker 1: who are in and around Jackson, they've got great resources there,

565
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: like exactly where you can go physically right now if

566
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: you're in or near Jackson to get water. Uh, if

567
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 1: you just scroll down on their main website, they've got

568
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: it and it's continually updated there. And one thing that's

569
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: important to note. We're talking about specifically something called the

570
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 1: Obi Curtis Facility, and the folks who are working there

571
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: now are in crisis mode. Like many municipal employees, several

572
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: of whom are in the audience with us today. Welcome folks. Uh.

573
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:17,919
Speaker 1: They are likely underpaid, definitely overworked, and they are at

574
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: the whims often of machinations far above their heads, right,

575
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 1: far above their ability to control. So there's another point

576
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: I want to make. It's a it is a larger,

577
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: deeper point. Uh. It is unexpected, right ideally on paper,

578
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: it is unexpected for a person in the United States

579
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: to need to purify or boil water, to have a

580
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: boil advisory as uh as Null pointed out, It's usually

581
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: phrased as something small happened, but with an abundance of caution,

582
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: we advise you to do such and such. This is

583
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: not the case in many, many other parts of the world.

584
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: It is simply expected that one must either boil water

585
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: or one must have bottled water of some sort. So

586
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: what is happening here, I would say, is something that

587
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: a lot of our international listeners are going to be

588
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: intimately familiar with as the average day today. But if

589
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: you are listening and you are in the US or

590
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: Canada or some parts not all parts, don't believe the

591
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: hype of Western Europe. This is something that you can

592
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: put in your journal as a harbinger of things to come,

593
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: not a Jordan harbinger, very nice, brilliant guy, but a

594
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: general harbinger of things to come. General Harbinger, General Harbinger,

595
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: and may God have mercy on yourself. The water. Uh,

596
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: the water crisis isn't coming, folks, It's already here. And

597
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: the heroic efforts, as you said, Matt, the herculean efforts

598
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 1: to make make water potable, drinkable, Uh, they are only

599
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: going to become more arduous, more challenging as time continues.

600
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 1: Just something to think about every time you ask yourself,

601
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: should I take a bath or take a shower? But

602
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: either way, I mean, that's not even the main issue here, guys.

603
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: This is an infrastructure story like this is. That's seriously,

604
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: what's at the heart of this. The mayor, chuckway La

605
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: Mumba made a point that, hey, this is not something

606
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: that may have happened. We've seen this on the horizon

607
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: for some time, for several years actually, we've noted that

608
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 1: this specific facility, the O. B. Curtis Water Treatment Facility,

609
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: it's failing and it's going to fail. It's not a

610
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: matter of if, but when. And it just happened to

611
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: occur now because of the catastrophic flooding. And I wonder

612
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: how many other cities, no matter what size they are

613
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: and no matter what country they're in have water treatment

614
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: facilities that are on the brink of failure just because

615
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: of the amount of water that needs to be pushed

616
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 1: through those things. And you know how where the water

617
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: is no longer flammable hopefully, But that's an enormous point, Matt,

618
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: that in your mind, readers, get that to the infrastructure

619
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 1: systems are already under tremendous stress, you know what I mean.

620
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: Like what it's um It's a situation where if you

621
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: think of that system the way you would think of

622
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: an anatomical system like a body, and it's agglomeration of

623
00:38:54,640 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: natural systems ease to the point where any of ends,

624
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: not even a black Swan event, any bad day, could

625
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: lead to a catastrophic series of dominoes. And it's it's

626
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: easy to hear about a story like this if you

627
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: don't live in Jackson, Mississippi. It's easy to hear about

628
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: it if you don't have family or friends in Jackson, Mississippi,

629
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: and then say, oh, gosh, thank goodness, I don't live there.

630
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: But it's uh, it's on tour. Sadly, statistically in the

631
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: United States, it is on tour and it is coming

632
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: to a town near you. If I had to guess,

633
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: I would say most likely, the next wave of these

634
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: things that will occur, the next wave of these dangerous

635
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: events will They won't be in the Los Angeles, they

636
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: won't be in the New York's, they won't be in

637
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: the Chicago's because those are very, very densely populated and

638
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: in some ways, very densely funded parts of this country.

639
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 1: They're gonna be doing is They're going to be happening

640
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: in the town's outside of Chicago. They're going to be

641
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: happening in the rural areas of you know, Arizona or

642
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: another very thirsty state. Wouldn't you say Flint was kind

643
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: of a harbinger of this. I mean, it wasn't flooding,

644
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 1: but it was about infrastructure. It was about like old,

645
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: outdated pipes with rust and all kinds of crazy stuff

646
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: that just wasn't addressed, you know, by the powers that be,

647
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: and then we should have been, well, it's about funding,

648
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: Like our city is going to get funding, you know,

649
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: either via the state or via federal spending. In this case,

650
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: the e p A entered into an agreement, at least

651
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: according to CNN, with Jackson, to provide seventy four I

652
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: think maybe seventy five million dollars to repair drinking water systems.

653
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: But then the mayor of Jackson, Lamombo, said, oh no,

654
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: it's gonna take two billion dollars to repair this water

655
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 1: treatment facility to fully replace it. Like a seventy four million,

656
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: seventy five millions not gonna do anything really, um and

657
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: and now and then it's who do you believe? Right,

658
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: do you actually need that much money? And if you do, well, dang,

659
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: we should probably invest that money somehow. But where does

660
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: it come from? And it becomes political decision priorities, and

661
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: like do you value life first or do you value

662
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: like other political kind of maneuvers that you can make,

663
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: like as a politician, Like that's how you value elections first.

664
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: That's always where's life on that list? Way down? Way low? Yeah, anyway,

665
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: I think I think we're just gonna have to continue

666
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: watching this. I you know, I hope everybody in or

667
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: around Jackson, if you're listening, I hope you're safe. Do

668
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: what you gotta do right to us and let us

669
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: know what you're going through right now. If you've been

670
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: through something like this in another city, we'd love to

671
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: hear your experience. And if you have any more information

672
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:58,439
Speaker 1: about budgets and how how they get allocated to water

673
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: treatment facilities. We'd love to hear from you too, And

674
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: while we wait to hear from you, we're gonna hear

675
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. Will be right back, all right, and

676
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: we have returned. Thanks so much everybody. We're going along.

677
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: We only have a little bit of time here, but

678
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: hopefully it will be worth your time. The only real

679
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: currency today's question, should plants have legal rights? Now? A

680
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: number of years ago there was this fantastic conversation across

681
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: so many disciplines regarding the idea of what's called legal personhood,

682
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: and this was applied to the concept of higher order animals.

683
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: When I say higher order, I'm not trying to be

684
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: a jerk. I'm talking about animals, non human animals that

685
00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: are able to perform some of the cognitive trick that

686
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 1: were once thought unique to the genre of primates currently

687
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: calling itself human today this is stuff like um, the

688
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: idea of abstract thought, planning for the future, the idea

689
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: of deception, the idea of um, understanding oneself, of meta cognition,

690
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 1: thinking about thinking. That's what happens when you look in

691
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: a mirror and say, oh, that's not me. But is

692
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: it kind of me? But it's not me. Some animals

693
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: can do that too. It's amazing, right, And uh, this

694
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: argument or this this quandary is moving forward in the

695
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: world of plants. Related to this episode on legal personhood,

696
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: we earlier did an investigation on whether or not plants, Yes,

697
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: fellow green thumbs, this is for you, whether or not

698
00:43:54,480 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: plants could fit the definition of an intelligent being. Now,

699
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: of course, the human cannon, the human ivory tower, is

700
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: at a disadvantage here because that's a species that has

701
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 1: yet to arrive a real definition of intelligence, as yet

702
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 1: to arrive at the concept of a soul, has yet

703
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: to arrive at a concept of sentience. This stood out

704
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: to me. I would say, this is technically strange news,

705
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: but you're not going to see a debate about it

706
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: on your media avenue of choice. The idea came up

707
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 1: in the news recently in some of the forums I follow,

708
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: but it's largely inspired by a wonderful book that was

709
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: written a few years ago called Brilliant Green, The Surprising

710
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 1: History and Science of Plant Intelligence by a plant neurobiologist

711
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: named Stefano Mancuso, along with a journalist Alessandra Viola and this.

712
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, do you guys remember the episode we

713
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 1: did on plant intelligence or the possibility thereof. It's been

714
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: a minute, but I mean, I'm fascinated about the idea.

715
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: I'm always like talking about mushrooms and they're like networks

716
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: of underground, you know, like stappses and stuff. I do

717
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: think it's a thing, no question about it. I do

718
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 1: remember being fascinated specifically with carnivorous plants and how that

719
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: evolution occurred, and then like what what caused that to happen.

720
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: I don't think we ever got to the bottom of

721
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: whether or not plants think, because we just can't tell you.

722
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: But I remember how interested I was in the topic. Yeah,

723
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: it is fascinating, man. I'm right there with you, because

724
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: if you have, it's an older idea that needs more attention.

725
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: Charles Darwin studied plants as well as animals for decades

726
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: of decades, and he ate them. While he was studying.

727
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: By the way, uh, he was one of the first

728
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: Western thinkers to say, hey, plants carnivorous and non carnivorous.

729
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: They move and respond to sensation. I would love for

730
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: any of us listening along in the audience today, to

731
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 1: go and talk to your plants while you water them,

732
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: and then get back to me and let me know

733
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: if you see a change in their growth pattern, and

734
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: whether you think that is some sort of vibe, whether

735
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: you think that is just uh, that you are exhaling

736
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: gases that are good for them, or you know, whether

737
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 1: they instantly died, which means you might be a bad conversationalist,

738
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 1: like I put that on you. Sorry, folks, forgive me.

739
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: But the idea is responding to stimulus from an environment.

740
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 1: It is the nature of life, right, That's the reason.

741
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 1: Rocks are apparently always rocks unless they are naturally soft

742
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: and they just harden up when you touch them. Just blue,

743
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: some blues, some minds in a freshman dorm somewhere. But

744
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: this is strange because if we get to the root

745
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: of it, we see that plants do exercise action in

746
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: their environment, which indicates at least uh. You know, people

747
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: get mad when you say understanding or desire, but it

748
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: indicates moves towards things that are good for them and

749
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: away from things that are bad for them. We know,

750
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: for instance, human beings may may pursue things that are

751
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: technically low level poisons. Right, Like people recreationally enjoy kept

752
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: sais in right, and that is something that is evolved

753
00:47:54,640 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 1: to deter consumption of plants of spicy right right, and

754
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 1: pep pep PEPs and uh we know that Uh, people

755
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: and other forms of animals on this planet. I have

756
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: enjoyed fermented things which you know contain alcohol or some

757
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: relation of alcohol that can also be be damaging to uh,

758
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: to a bodily system. But I've been thinking more our psilocybin. Well,

759
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: psilocybin is not necessarily damaging to a bodily system, uh

760
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: in this Well, No, it doesn't mean in terms of

761
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: like things that plants beget that we enjoy also fruit.

762
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: I mean there's like a whole symbiosis with plants that

763
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: we have this relationship with them, and we've tested it

764
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: and we know what will kill us and what won't.

765
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: So there's an interesting sort of entry point to interacting

766
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 1: with plants, like in terms of like life on Earth. Yeah,

767
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: I'm drawing a bright line around those first two examples

768
00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: because they are things that are potentially dangerous to living forms.

769
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: Unlike psilocybin, it's not naturally dangerous, which despite what the

770
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: War on drugs would have us believe so. And I

771
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: was thinking about this. I was looking at a couple

772
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 1: of fantastic articles. I reread part of Brilliant Green, and

773
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: I went out on this patio I have where I'm

774
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: living now and just watched the plants move. And I

775
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: want to get kind of meta with this in the

776
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: in the small most smart, I mean, they know what

777
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: they want. You can't say that about everything. That's what

778
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,439
Speaker 1: I mean. It's a it's a system. It's a very

779
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: honed system, that's all I'm saying. So part of my

780
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: question is this is also a setup for for an

781
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: episode I think we could visit in the future. But

782
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: part of my question for you guys, this is not

783
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,240
Speaker 1: to trick you into an interview. This is a series

784
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: of me asking you and our fellow conspiracy realist what

785
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: you think. Part of my question here, the where we

786
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: get to the meta aspect, is simply put this, if

787
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: ever there were a widespread academic recognition of plants having

788
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: some sort of legal right, not just the tree that

789
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 1: owns itself, you know in Georgia, but but something like um,

790
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: something that says, for legal purposes, destroying a forest is

791
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: the same thing as mass murder. What would that mean

792
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 1: for the world. Do you think that's even a thing

793
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: that should or could happen. I don't think it could,

794
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: but should it? Well, it is illegal to set for

795
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,359
Speaker 1: us on fire unless you're a logging corporation or like

796
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: a company that like owns it and can just like

797
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,240
Speaker 1: do it, you know, unchecked. But it's a very interesting

798
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: question because some of the things that I'm fascinated by

799
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: involved being able to take of these things that these

800
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: plants provide. And if all the sudden the plant had

801
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: this personhood, you have to like ask permission or something.

802
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: But if you want to take the hippie kind of

803
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 1: dippy perspective, it's like the plants want you to eat them,

804
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,959
Speaker 1: like the psilocybin wants you to eat them. Like they're

805
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: part of this system of the earth, like in terms

806
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: of like that like network of these like underground networks

807
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 1: of like electrically communicating kind of synapses that are mushrooms

808
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: that are this like kind of circle of life and

809
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: existence and like they're not I won't go so far

810
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: as to say that they're there for us, but like

811
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: they are a way of interacting with them, you eat

812
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: a plant. You're not killing the plant exactly, because it's

813
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: just gonna regrow itself. It's like cutting a lizard's tail off,

814
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: like thet of the ones that that regrow. So I

815
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: think it's fascinating. It's not like we're so even that

816
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: vegetarians who are so anti factory farming and stuff, they're

817
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: all about eating plants, and they're the ones that have

818
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: the most aggressive opinions on life of any of us.

819
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: So it's it's a very interesting question, It's all. I

820
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: don't know the answer, Matt, what do you What do

821
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: you think? Dude? I just had a very very clear

822
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:08,439
Speaker 1: picture of Norman Borlog with a bull horn, standing up

823
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: on a platform and there's a wheat field and he's

824
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: just he asks, okay, now we need you to feed us.

825
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: Is that okay? And then can we have her consent?

826
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: Can you sign this pdf? Okay? Can you sign this

827
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: Adobe document? I don't know. To me, it was just

828
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: a very funny. But what do we do at that

829
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: point if plants have some kind of personhood, have some

830
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: kind of sentience that we acknowledge, Like, what do we

831
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:45,399
Speaker 1: do to feed ourselves? Terrestrial entities that contact us are

832
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: not plant or fungi based, so we could eat that,

833
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: you know. There they don't come rocking through this little

834
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 1: backwater of this little backwater galaxy and say, holy crap,

835
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: what if they're based on connivorous plants? Man? You know, like,

836
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 1: what if they come through and they say, oh my gosh,

837
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 1: our versions of flies are eating us nuca or whatever,

838
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 1: our version of nucas. I don't think that will happen,

839
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: but I do think I do think it is um

840
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: It is a an idea that the human species could

841
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: leverage to be a little bit less of an unsustainable fad,

842
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:31,320
Speaker 1: a little bit less uncool to the super organism of earth.

843
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: You know, I I know a lot of vegans of vegetarians.

844
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 1: I was a vegetarian for myself for some time. I

845
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 1: was privileged enough to be so, which is an important point.

846
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:47,359
Speaker 1: But also there's this meta cognitive argument right like we

847
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: also it goes to so many levels, and I think

848
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 1: it's worth revisiting an actual episode because we have to

849
00:53:54,800 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: ask ourselves, is there a hierarchy of life? Right the vegan?

850
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,879
Speaker 1: The vegetarian says, I know this is a living thing.

851
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: I wish to not do harm to others, perhaps, but

852
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: I also need to live, and like any human being,

853
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: I will put my survival over literally everything. What happens

854
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: when what happens when you tell thousands of people who

855
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 1: depend upon deforestation in a given area that they cannot

856
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 1: they cannot feed their families because they cannot interrupt this

857
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: great dance, this great cycle of life that has continued

858
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: millions of years before people were around. It's politically difficult,

859
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: but also again, politics is just sort of another religion

860
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: that humans have made up. And there's not money. Yeah

861
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 1: well there, yeah, money as well. I still have the

862
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 1: standing call for anyone, anyone to tell me the difference

863
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 1: between modern economic belief and religious belief. On their line,

864
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: politics and money are like, you know, two hands in

865
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: the same gloves. I feel you, But the the the

866
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: idea here is to me. It's fascinating because we know

867
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are close with plants. And

868
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: this is an open call. By the way, you don't

869
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 1: even need to use the show contact information. You want

870
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,240
Speaker 1: to find me on social media app and bowling or something.

871
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: Send me your pictures of your plants. I am here

872
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 1: for it. I love plants. There there's some of my

873
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 1: favorite living things. And if you have a plant in

874
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: your life. If you like live around plants, then I

875
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: am almost certain that if you are human and live

876
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: around plants, even if you are a botanist and well trained,

877
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 1: you would probably anthropomorphize them a bit. You've given them, yeah, yeah,

878
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 1: you've given them names, you know, you give them per senalities.

879
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 1: You might have put some plants next to each other

880
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: and you can tell whether or not they vibe. And

881
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: there's chemistry with that too. Plants do talk to one

882
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: another in in such that they communicate. They exude or

883
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: emanate different chemical signals. Plants scream to their kinful when

884
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: they are being hurt. They transmit signals when you are

885
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: mowing the grass, you monster, Where have you seen this?

886
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 1: Where's the study? I'm so fascinated by this, Like I

887
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: was gonna ask you, like, is it about pain like

888
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: animals versus plants? Like is it about pain? And how

889
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: do you register this what you're describing? I'm so fascinated

890
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: by this idea. The life cycle of a plant on

891
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: in most cases is to get its seeds ingested. We

892
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: may spread, So I just don't understand why it would

893
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: be I guess it would still be painful, but it's

894
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: also purposeful and then also what is the balanced chemicals

895
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: We would need Matt to communicate to the plant that

896
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: there is some sort of in our opinion, greater good,

897
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 1: you know, as they're an afterlife. I'm sorry, I mean

898
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: the whole episode. Whole episode. This is amazing. Um there's

899
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 1: a there's an amazing record called um oh gosh more

900
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: Garson Plantasia. It's a modular scynth record from the like sixties,

901
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: and it was designed to like play for your plants

902
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:32,919
Speaker 1: with the with the understanding that it would like help

903
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: them grow. So there are like all these things that

904
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 1: we're talking about that it comes from this like kind

905
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 1: of counterculture like psychedelic movement of the idea that like

906
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,919
Speaker 1: plants are sentient and that we are participating with them

907
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: in this like life cycle. But no one of all

908
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: those people, they never are like, oh, I'm worried if

909
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hurt the plant if I like eat one

910
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: of its leaves. They're like, the plant welcomes me to

911
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 1: like eat of its leaves, as opposed to the cow

912
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: who we put in a pen and like hook up

913
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: a thing too. It's like teats and just suck the

914
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: life for out of it and like, yeah, those things

915
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: actually scream, you can hear it. It's it's awful. Um. Yeah,

916
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: it's fascinating to me on so many levels. And and

917
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: we don't have time now but to let you know

918
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 1: the specifics of reference. This an upcoming episode. The research

919
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 1: I read that was most compelling was in I want

920
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: to say, after we had recorded whether or not plants

921
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 1: or intelligent? Uh, there was this study out of Tel Aviv.

922
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 1: I believe it was that went specific. It's focusing specifically

923
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 1: on tomato and tobacco plants. And then it shows through

924
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 1: through literally holding a microphone, it shows that when under stress,

925
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 1: they admit frequencies that are inaudible to you know, the

926
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: average human ear between twenty two hundred killer hurts. I

927
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: hope I haven't ruined you know, anybody's like vegetarian feast

928
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 1: or whatever. I have plants. I ate them all the time.

929
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: Most people do or should. Uh. So we want to

930
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts. What kind of conversations have you had

931
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: with your plants, What do you think about the future

932
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: of water? Where do you stand on the banning of books?

933
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 1: Is it always a bad thing? Are there some books

934
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 1: that should not be read? We think there's definitely one

935
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: you should read, which we're pretty explicit about because we'll

936
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 1: get dragged in the street and shot if we don't

937
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 1: mention it. So, uh, stuff there what you know of

938
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: the book? Ben said, true? Right, yeah, yeah, they're they're

939
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: after us. That Honda Odyssey is idling on my street

940
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: right now. Uh and that's not laughing because he's looking

941
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: out the window and she she's a van to But seriously,

942
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: we can't wait to hear from you. We try to

943
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: be easy to find online. That's right. You can find

944
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: us online where we are conspiracy stuff on Facebook, on

945
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: Twitter and on YouTube, or conspiracy stuff show on Instagram.

946
00:59:58,880 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: And if you don't want to do any of the

947
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: things you gave it a try dip your toe on

948
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 1: the internet. It's it's it's a big world out there,

949
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: lots of info. You can also give us a telephone call. Yes,

950
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 1: you can call one eight three three st d w

951
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 1: y t K. When you call in give yourself a

952
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: cool code name. We don't care what it is. Just

953
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: keep it a little anonymous and then we'll know who

954
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: you are next time you call. You've got three minutes.

955
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: Use it however you'd like. Please let us know if

956
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 1: you give us permission to use your voice and message

957
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 1: on one of our listener mail episodes. Hey, if you

958
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: don't want to do that at all and you just

959
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: want to contact us with words, try our email. We

960
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't

961
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: want you to know is a production in of I

962
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit

963
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

964
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.