1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Angelica Houston is a remarkable actress who has lived a 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: remarkable life. She has an oscar for her emotionally complex 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: and very funny performance in Pretty's Honor as the Black 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: Sheep mob daughter may Rose, Pretzyn and Amaya. 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: I've got a reputation to live up on the family scan. 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: Everybody be disappointed. 8 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: If I started her pitch perfect. Mortitia in the Adams 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: Family will be loved for generations. 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 2: Oh, I'll be fine. I'm just like any modern woman 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: trying to have it all, loving husband of family. It's 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 2: just I wish I had more time to seek out 13 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: the dark forces and join their hellish crusade. 14 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: But to fully understand the context of our conversation today, 15 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: you'll also need a line from a movie. Here Houston 16 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with Annie Hall. We're gonna meet 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: Jak and Angelic and have a drink there, and if 18 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: you'd like to come, we'd love to have you in. 19 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: We can just sit and talk. That was Paul Simon 20 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: ad libbing to Diane Keaton in nineteen seventy six, trying 21 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: to conjure the most unpretentious but exclusive party in all 22 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: the world. Jack and Angelica will be there, no last 23 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: names needed. Jack is Jack Nicholson, of course, Houston's boyfriend 24 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: for almost twenty years, starting in the early seventies, and 25 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: for all that time, nobody embodied the nonchalant glamour of 26 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: the Hollywood New Wave more than they did. Angelica Houston 27 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: is the daughter of Prima Ballerina Enrica Soma and John Houston, 28 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: one of the greatest filmmakers who's ever lived, the director 29 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: of the Maltese Falcon, the treasurer of the Sierra Madre, 30 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: the African Queen, and Pretty's honor for which his daughter 31 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: won that Oscar. Angelica didn't spend a lot of time 32 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: on set with her dad growing up, but she does 33 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: remember being with him in the studios smoky Darkwood offices 34 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: in the final days of a Hollywood inhabited by the 35 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: fast talking, sharply dressed producers and agents of the Golden Age. 36 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 2: They were the remnants of the old School. They were serious. 37 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: There was a definite regard for the auteur. The agents 38 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: worked for the auteurs, and these guys commanded respect. Even 39 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: Irving Lazare, who was the book agent who was commonly 40 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: known as Swifty, and it was about four feet tall 41 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: and looked like a gnome. Yeah, but there was there 42 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: was a kind of grandeur to it. I remember being 43 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 2: around them, and they were affectionate towards me. I was. 44 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 2: I was my dad's daughter, so I was. I was 45 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 2: sort of tolerated. 46 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: Well, maybe more than tolerated. 47 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 2: Well, no, toted. 48 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: Well, you did the one film with your dad first, 49 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: which was what year was that? 50 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 2: That was called Walk with Love and Death, and that 51 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 2: was in nineteen sixty eight. I was sixteen years old. 52 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 2: I knew nothing except that I wanted to be a 53 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 2: movie actress and why movie actresses were beautiful. 54 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: They and they got the attention of the men in Hollywood, well. 55 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: Even before the men in Hollywood, you know, because I 56 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: didn't grow up in Hollywood. I grew up in Ireland, 57 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: i know. And I went to school in England, and 58 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: I had a really fantastic mother who showed me not 59 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: just movies, but showed me theater and took me to 60 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 2: plays and operas. 61 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: And where was she from? 62 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 2: She was Italian, but she was raised in New York 63 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 2: and she'd been a balanchine dancer, and she had a 64 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: very eccentric, wonderful father. 65 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: What do he do? 66 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 2: He was a restauranteur called Tony Selma, and he used 67 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 2: to stand on his head and sing opera for his Cleontel. 68 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: It was called Tony's Wife. 69 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: Well part of town seven fifties, Yeah. 70 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 2: And the Rockefellers went there, and people loved him a lot. 71 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: He was like no one I've ever met. He was 72 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 2: an eccentric but wonderful. But my mother took me everywhere. 73 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: I saw not only Maria Callis singing Tosca, but I 74 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 2: also saw Iicontina Turner when I was like fifteen years 75 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: old at the Revolution. Yeah, I saw it all. I 76 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 2: saw Sir John Gilgod, I saw Dame Margaret Rutherford, I 77 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: saw Laurence Olivier, I saw Donnie LaRue. I saw the 78 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 2: best that England had to offer. Your parents met where 79 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: they met in Los Angeles many years. 80 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: Before, and she'd come out here for what to work. 81 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 2: She'd been offered a contract by Selznik because she was 82 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: very beautiful and her face was on the cover of 83 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: Life magazine. As a young beller, she roomed with Audrey Hepburn. 84 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,799 Speaker 2: She was part of that whole movement of young women 85 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 2: very beautiful, who are being groomed for stardom? And then 86 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 2: she met my father. She'd actually met him at Tony's restaurant. 87 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 2: My grandfather always insisted she write an essay if she 88 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: was allowed to go to the theater or to see 89 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 2: a ballet. So some years before my father was about 90 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 2: to go off to war, and he'd promised her that 91 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 2: he would take her to the ballet and she wouldn't 92 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 2: have to write an essay about it. But then he'd 93 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 2: reneeed on his promise because he was sent off to war. 94 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: So at least that's how he. 95 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: Did. 96 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: He was a director already and the film, that's right. 97 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: He did several movies. He did Let There Be Light 98 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: in the Battle of San Piedro, seminole documentaries for that time. 99 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 2: He had a bit of a fight with the War 100 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 2: Department later on because they considered them a bit too graphic, 101 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 2: a bit too honest, say. 102 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: And when he came back from the war. Because what 103 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: I'm trying to track here is Ireland, England, La, Why 104 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: did you grow up in Ireland? Was that his idea? 105 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: He wanted you guys to live over there. 106 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 2: Well, he was part of the committee for the First 107 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: Amendment McCarthy was hard at it, beating all the writers 108 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 2: out of Hollywood. My father and Humphrey Bogart, Gary Cooper, 109 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 2: Lauren McCall, a bunch of them formed a committee for 110 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: the First Amendment, which was basically that you know, you 111 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 2: could stand on your rights as an individual as a 112 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: citizen not have to answer questions from the committee. And 113 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 2: I think the whole thing left Dad with a really 114 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 2: bad taste in his mouth. He was making a movie 115 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 2: called African Queen when I was born, and then afterwards. 116 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: When where did your mother deliver. 117 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 2: You cedars of Lebanon in Cinta, Monica. 118 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: Where did they shoot in Africa? 119 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: Yes, in the Belgian Congo. 120 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: Hepburn and Bogart and your father went to the Belgian Congo. 121 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: This is back in the day when women would deliver 122 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: babies and the father was on the road. 123 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 2: That's right. 124 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: Your dad was making African Queen when you were delivered. 125 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: Yes, he was, and the call was making meals, you know, 126 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 2: I think, cooking up bugs for dinner and stuff. When 127 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: he returned. He then went practically immediately into Moulin Rouge 128 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: in Paris, and my mother was sort of chasing him 129 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: across the continent and left me behind. I was like 130 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 2: three months old, and finally came back and collected my 131 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 2: brother and I and brought us to France, where we 132 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: lived in Deauville for a while, and Saint chanelus why 133 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 2: to be nearer to. 134 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: Him like a base for you, a European base exactly. 135 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: But when you say she was chasing him around, was he? 136 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I'm going to I'll get this out 137 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: of the way up front, Okay, I want to. He 138 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: was such a great director. He's one of the greatest 139 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: directors that ever lived. Was John Houston incorporated a tough thing. 140 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: To keep God those fires going? Did he always have 141 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: to be shooting and going and working? 142 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 2: He was on Yeah, he was on the march my father. 143 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: He was working on the next picture while shooting the 144 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 2: last People. He loved to shoot, and he loved locations, 145 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:21,119 Speaker 2: and he loved hotels, hotels, challenges, women, consequent cigars, a 146 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: certain amount of liquor. He liked the chase. He was 147 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: a sportsman, a daredevil, and I think extremely enticing to 148 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: women in general. So I think my mother was attempting 149 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 2: to keep up, which of course was hopeless. It was 150 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: hard to tame him, Yes, indeed, I think, but she 151 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 2: tried well, I don't know that she tried to tame him, 152 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 2: but I think she tried to keep up, to keep. 153 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: Up with him. Your parents get divorced when you're how old? 154 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: My mother died when I was sixteen years old in 155 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 2: a car crash, and they hadn't divorced. 156 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: Where did this happen? The accident? 157 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 2: She was killed traveling to Venice. 158 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: Where were you? 159 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 2: I was in London at school. 160 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: What was she like? What was your mom like? 161 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 2: My mother was incredibly beautiful. She was very sensitive. She 162 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: had an Italian background, even though she was a New 163 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 2: York Italian. She was a good girl. She pleased her father. 164 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: She wrote him long letters when she was on the 165 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: road in the ballet. She was still in the court 166 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 2: of Ballet when she was in her teens and almost 167 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 2: until she married my father. She'd come to Los Angeles 168 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 2: just in the previous couple of years, and she'd gotten 169 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: immediately pregnant with my brother. She had incredible taste. I 170 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: don't know where she got it from, but she knew 171 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: about things. Yeah, she was a great decorator. She was 172 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 2: a wonderful hostess, but she was earthy as well as 173 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 2: just beautiful and aeradite. She had a full laugh and 174 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: she had great wit, and I think it was hard 175 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 2: for her because in a way, you know, she wasn't 176 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 2: like those beautiful adjuncts to the gentleman. She was very 177 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 2: specifically herself. 178 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: When your mom dies when you're sixteen, which is very 179 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: a significant age, what happens to you in terms of 180 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: your mom, I'm assuming was around. 181 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 2: More, yeah, and I was living with my mother. I 182 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: may have been seventeen, actually going to school in London. 183 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: I'd done this movie with my dad where we were 184 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 2: a very very bad relationship point. During that movie, I'd 185 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 2: said all my life, I want to be an actress. 186 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: I want to be an actress, and finally he'd launched me. 187 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 2: This was a huge thing that he'd done for me. 188 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 2: I think, against everyone's better judgment, And to tell you 189 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 2: the truth, I never liked the part. I never liked 190 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 2: the film. I didn't really have any regard for it. 191 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 2: And who was I to feel that way? And who 192 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 2: was I not to be grateful? So this was a 193 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 2: really bad moment between my father and I. And it 194 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 2: was after I came back from making that movie barely 195 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: speaking to him, which that's not a good relationship for 196 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 2: a director actress. 197 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: I've been. 198 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 2: It's an ugly thing. But anyway. I then took a 199 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: job understudying Maryanne Faithful in Tony Richardson's Hamlet, which in London, Yeah, 200 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 2: at the Roundhouse. Nicol Williamson was playing Hamlet. I rather 201 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 2: enjoyed that because mary Anne was in delicate health and 202 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 2: she often didn't go on, so I had I had 203 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 2: some good opportunities to go on. And Shakespeare is like 204 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: a protective shield. He's like a hazmat suit. You can't 205 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 2: be bad. I don't think with lines chance a lot better, 206 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 2: you know. And I remember lines in A Walk with 207 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 2: Love and Death like go shoot a cow not. I 208 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,839 Speaker 2: reacted so badly to the script. I was barely able 209 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 2: to do it, you know. But now having been given 210 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 2: a little bit of a chance to go on and 211 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 2: flex my muscles, I was really liking, you know, treading 212 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 2: the boards. It was at that time that my mother died. 213 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: You were doing that show. 214 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 2: I was doing that show. And when she died, the 215 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: show was on its way to New York, and I 216 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: grabbed a seat on board and went to New York. 217 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 2: And I don't even remember my father's having an objection. 218 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 2: I think he was so sort of bewildered by by 219 00:12:55,320 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 2: my powers of escape. And by the time he caught 220 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 2: up with me in New York, I was already modeling. 221 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: I'd started a career for myself, and I was pretty 222 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 2: determined to lead life my way. 223 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: New York was never home for you, no. 224 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 2: I stayed initially with my best friend at the time, 225 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 2: who i'd met when I was like seven and she 226 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 2: was ten. Her name is Joan Buck. She was the 227 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 2: daughter of my father's producer on those war movies, and 228 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: Cameron Jules Buck. And I stayed with Joan and she 229 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: was working for Mademoiselle at the time, so I met 230 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: a lot of people through her. I met very good 231 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 2: photographers like Kibo, dant Helmut Newton and David Bailey, who 232 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 2: had actually met in London, and Dick Avidon, who I'd 233 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: met in London, who was a friend of my mother's, 234 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 2: And so I started to model. At first, it was 235 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 2: kind of difficult because I didn't have a lot of 236 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: self confidence. I knew what I wanted to do, but 237 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 2: it wasn't a natural fit. I remember going into Eileen 238 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: Ford and she said, well, obviously you need a nose job, 239 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 2: and then she asked to look at my legs and 240 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 2: it was it was not that comfortable. 241 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 3: But. 242 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: Yest here. 243 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 244 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. But on the other hand, I had a few champions, 245 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: Dick Avadon being one of them, and we did a 246 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: really nice layout in Vogue, like a lot of pages 247 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 2: in Ireland, and so I kind of gained a reputation 248 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: as an editorial model, not an advertising model. So it 249 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: was considered very grand to be an editorial model, except 250 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 2: that one didn't make money, you know, for editorial you 251 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 2: made a few hundred dollars a day, yes, as opposed 252 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 2: to the girls who are out there for Clairels or whatever. 253 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 2: And I was never going to be a claire A girl. 254 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 2: So after about four years where I was in a 255 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 2: relationship with a much older photographer called Bob Richardson and 256 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: he was great to work for a lot less nice 257 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 2: to live with, but. 258 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: Until you went home. 259 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 2: That's right. 260 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, you met him. 261 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: Wear a shoot for Harper's Bizarre. 262 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: He was a photographer, he was the photographer editorial and 263 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: you were how old? I was early twenties, you were eighteen, yeah, 264 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: and he was how old? 265 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 2: Forty two? Okay, but he was an artist, and he 266 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: was a magician. He'd look at you through the lens 267 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 2: and then he'd just take the camera down and place 268 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: it in his lap for a minute and stare at you, 269 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 2: and you felt like you could really provide the goods. 270 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 2: Sometimes after we worked together, I'd be trembling. I'd be 271 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 2: shaking from the impact. There's something about working with people 272 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: who are very, very good. It's the biggest turn on 273 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 2: in the world. 274 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: Sure, talent is the greatest effidisia. 275 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 2: It is, And I'd have to say that, you know, 276 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: our relationship was very much guided by that. That was 277 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: central to our relationship. I don't really want to remember 278 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 2: how we were as a man and a woman. I 279 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: much prefer to remember as a photographer and molleagues. Yes, 280 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 2: as colleagues, and as two people who went after something. 281 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: Is there a period that ends New York? 282 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: Well, my father, of course, was horrified by the fact 283 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: that I was going out with a forty two year 284 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 2: old man, and not just any forty two year old man. 285 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 2: Bob had a history of drugs. 286 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: And was your father anti drug? Oh? 287 00:16:53,520 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 2: Seriously, yes, extremely extremely anti drug. And I don't think 288 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: any father is all that much in love with the 289 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 2: idea of his seventeen year old girl getting involved with 290 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 2: a drug addict. But the fact about Bob was that 291 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 2: he was one of a group of rather important and 292 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: interesting and famous people who went to see a doctor 293 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: called doctor Max Jacobson. He had people like Margot Fontaine 294 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: and Jack Kennedy and Truman Capoti, Tennessee Williams, a lot 295 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 2: of very interesting people, and he gave them the combination 296 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 2: of drugs some I think very pleasant and mind expanding, 297 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 2: and then he'd hit them with something not quite so good. 298 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 2: He was manipulative. And there was an article written about 299 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: Bob Richardson in the New York Times. It talked about 300 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: his experience with doctor Max Jacobson. And my father read 301 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 2: this article and his consequence thought, oh, well, maybe this 302 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 2: is not a common street my daughters chosen to be with, 303 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 2: but someone of deeper interest. So he invited Bob and 304 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 2: I to go on a trip to Mexico. It was 305 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 2: an ill fated excursion in that straight out I got 306 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 2: the worst sunburn in my entire life. They thought about, 307 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 2: you know, what I wanted to drink. They thought about, 308 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: you know, where we should eat. They fought about a 309 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 2: lot of things. At the end of the that trip, 310 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: my father went on an excursion solo to La Pause 311 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 2: to find me a black pearl and came back empty 312 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 2: handed except for a pair of straw hats. Despondent. 313 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: If I remember correctly from the book, this was the 314 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: period of lots of jewels and furs. 315 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and jewels absolutely, just a cascade of And 316 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 2: then we were leaving to go back to Los Angeles, 317 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 2: and Bob and I had an epic fight, and we 318 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: parted at Los Angeles Airport, and I'd separated our clothes 319 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 2: from our bags the night before, and down to the 320 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 2: last minute, I wasn't sure if I could actually make 321 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 2: the cut. Yeah, but I did, and I didn't look back. 322 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 2: I went to live with my dad for the next 323 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 2: four or five months where in the Palisades. 324 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: Is he in la as a function purely of the business. 325 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: And this is where the business. Where did he love 326 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: Southern California. 327 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 2: Actually loathed it like it had had, you know, a 328 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 2: certain sort of despisal for it. They couldn't decide on 329 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 2: a particular style of house, and how you know. Tutor 330 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 2: was followed by Regency was followed by Georgie, and aesthetically 331 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 2: it didn't please him. He felt that it was all 332 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: too safe, a predictable bourgeois No. 333 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: Had a great line, There's no place on earth where 334 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: the homes are more finely appointed than in bel Air, 335 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: and the artwork and the tapestries. He said. These moguls 336 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: who control these media companies, they have the most elegant taste. 337 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: And he wondered what happened to that taste from when 338 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: they left their driveway and drove through the gates of 339 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: the studio. Where did that taste go? 340 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 2: Well, sometimes they took it to their offices. Some did 341 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 2: and then others not so much. This is home for you, yes, 342 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,959 Speaker 2: and it has been for a long time. And something 343 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 2: about it said home to me. When I began to 344 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: live here, the Palisades was very beautiful. It was sort 345 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: of semi rural. My father had just gotten remarried to 346 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 2: a woman called CEC's Shane. I could ride horses with 347 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 2: CC up in will Rogers. I really liked will Rogers 348 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 2: a lot. Something about being in a city that wasn't concrete, 349 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 2: being in place where you could go out to restaurants 350 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 2: and shops and ella was great in the day. I mean, 351 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 2: it was fun. There was the Luau. There were there 352 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 2: were about seven great restaurants scanned. Yeah, there were some 353 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 2: really wonderful places to go and be. And I think 354 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 2: in the day it was very fun place. 355 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: When did you sad to start of the change? 356 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 2: Ah, the eighties probably just gets too built up. It 357 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 2: got too built up, and Rodeo Drive became very glitzy. 358 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 2: Up until that point, there was a kind of comfort 359 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 2: to the place. And and I longed for beautiful weather 360 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 2: and brown skin. I mean, that was the thing that 361 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 2: you really wished for in school when I was growing up. 362 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: And Nicholson, of all people, I said to him, I said, 363 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: you could have any home anywhere, and you live here 364 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: and I can't do my bad Jack. But he was like, 365 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: he said, yeah, he said, this is my town. 366 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 2: Oh he loves it. 367 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 1: This is my town. Yeah, said he just loved it. 368 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 2: He loves it. He doesn't have to leave home. He's 369 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 2: completely happy, has his pictures, he's got his books, his teeth, 370 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 2: his Lakers. Oh, I was so sad about Kobe. I 371 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 2: was as sad for Jack about Kobe as I was 372 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 2: for Kobe. Frankly, the Lakers are almost part of Jack. 373 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 2: Look like an extra limb. But yes, it was truly 374 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 2: his town, and I fell in love with it as 375 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 2: I fell in love with Jack. There was a kind 376 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 2: of freedom. You could be completely under the radar here 377 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: New York. Every time you go outside, people see you, 378 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 2: people recognize you for some reason. I was recognizable quite early, 379 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 2: and I never really liked it, you know, unless I 380 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 2: was ready for it. I'm fine if I put on 381 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: the dog and go out, but I'm not fine if 382 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 2: I'm taken unawares. And something about feeling exposed like you 383 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 2: did on the streets of New York. It's still it 384 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 2: still takes me by surprise. And there's a look people 385 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 2: give you in the streets sometimes I'm sure you know it, 386 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 2: which is like it's a look of appreciation, and it's 387 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 2: almost a wink. And they don't want to bother you, 388 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 2: but still you feel like they know me. They know 389 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 2: me too much. They signal you, especially when you think 390 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 2: he looks shitty. 391 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: But everyone's got a camera in their pocket twenty four 392 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: hours a day, and they take pictures of you eating, 393 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,479 Speaker 1: and they take pictures of me with my children, and 394 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 1: they make your life miserable, miserable. 395 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 2: It's a very different thing for me, having been a 396 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 2: model I loved having my picture taken, I really did. 397 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: I when you were signed on to it. 398 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a form of addiction, and also the way 399 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 2: a good photographer takes your picture. I'm reminded briefly of 400 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 2: Bill Cunningham, who was essentially a street photographer. But he 401 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 2: would say do you mind, and then and you go no, no, 402 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 2: go ahead. But there was a kind of decorum about it. Now, 403 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 2: not at all. 404 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: And when did you decide to get back on the 405 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: horse acting wise? 406 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 2: When I split with Bob at Lax. 407 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: And what's the next project you take on as an actress? 408 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 2: The last Tycoon with Ilia Kazan DeNiro with Bob de Niro. Yeah, 409 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 2: but Jack was maybe going to do that and then 410 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 2: decide where? No, actually, yes, just just where did you 411 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:31,959 Speaker 2: meet him? I met him at his house at his 412 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 2: birthday party? I went with Ceci. She said, oh, there's 413 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 2: a party at Jack Nichols. I mean, that's how loose 414 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 2: things were those days. 415 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: And what did he call you? 416 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 2: Tutzuts tutz and thens a big which came from the big, 417 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 2: the big, the big fabulous because I used to say 418 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: fabulous all the time, so it was the big fabulous 419 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 2: And then it became the. 420 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: Big What did he call the car? The Mercedes was 421 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: the what bing the bing bing bing cherry. He doesn't 422 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: still have that car, does he? No? Six hundred Mercedes. 423 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 2: It was a great card. 424 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: I have a six hundred Mercedes the last year they 425 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: made the old model nineteen. 426 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 2: Eighty, Such a beautiful car. What do you do you 427 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: call your car name? 428 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: No, but I'm going to now. 429 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 2: Mine, call it mine. That was another nickname Jack had 430 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 2: for me, Mine, which became Minyl. When we were skiing, 431 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 2: I'd be slaloming down the slope and he'd be up 432 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 2: on a on a chair lift, and I'd hear Mina. 433 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: Angelica Houston. Another seminal figure of the seventies and eighties 434 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: his poet and punk rocker Patti Smith. Like Houston, Smith 435 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: is a great artist who had to navigate a complex 436 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: relationship with another great artist, in Smith's case, photographer Robert Maplethorpe, 437 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: who died of complications from AIDS in nineteen eighty nine. 438 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 3: You know, I'm still connected with him. I still think 439 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 3: about him every day. And I mean, of course, you 440 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 3: know we were boyfriend and girlfriend. We did all the 441 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 3: things young people do. But as he felt freer as 442 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 3: an artist in a human being. The next thing that 443 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 3: happened is he blossomed and felt his sexual nature. 444 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 2: We had to whether that. 445 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 3: It was difficult, and it took a few years because 446 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 3: neither one of us wanted to part. 447 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: You can get a link to my full conversation with 448 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: Patty Smith by texting Smith to seven zero one zero one. 449 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: That's sm to seven zero one zero one. I'm Alec 450 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 1: Baldwin and this is here's the thing. When Angelica Houston's stepmother, 451 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: Ceci brought her to Jack Nicholson's birthday party in nineteen 452 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: seventy three, I didn't have imagined what she was setting 453 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: in motion. Houston was smitten and spent the night. 454 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 2: He made me laugh, but he sent me home in 455 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 2: a cab. I showed up the next day in my 456 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 2: evening dress from the night before, and Cecy said, what 457 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 2: are you thinking? I had no idea how I should 458 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: be treated. Basically, I was about nineteen or twenty. 459 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: Still I was still a baby, ye kid. 460 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, without any idea how I should be treated or 461 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 2: you know, sense of decord. The rules were no, none, 462 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 2: and I remember desperately hoping he'd call me, and when 463 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 2: he did, I said immediately. But if you take me out, 464 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: you have to pick me up and you have to 465 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 2: drive me home. And I don't remember this long pause 466 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 2: on the other end of the phone, but he did 467 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: just that. Once. He was kind of Once he signed 468 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 2: on yes, once he signed on her, he was pointed 469 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 2: in the right direction. He could be very gallant. Jack 470 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 2: was a wonderful boyfriend, too easily distracted. 471 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: Do you find that getting married and settling down is 472 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: just like there's no time for that, You're too busy 473 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: enjoying this life? 474 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 2: Well, I can't say that I really enjoyed it all 475 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 2: that much. I spent I spent a lot of time 476 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 2: in tears, a lot of time crying when I was 477 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 2: with Jack, a lot of the time feeling slighted, a 478 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 2: lot of the time, feeling like he didn't get me enough, 479 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: or that I wasn't getting enough attention from him. His 480 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 2: attention was very splintered. He reminded me sometimes of a 481 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 2: wonderful dog we used to have called Big Boy together, 482 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 2: who's he was half Labrador, half Golden Retriever, big black dog, 483 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 2: wonderful dog. But he'd get a look in his eye and. 484 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: That was it. 485 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 2: He was off. And I always knew that I really 486 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 2: wasn't the most important thing in Jack's life. 487 00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: I was your dad all over again. 488 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Jack got a tremendous amount of attention, and 489 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 2: that was hard for me, you know, because also I 490 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 2: knew what it was to get my own kind of attention, 491 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 2: and so it turns into a kind of competition. 492 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: When did that begin? Meaning when did you start to say, 493 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: when am I going to make me and my work 494 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: the most important thing? When does that start? 495 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 2: It started pretty early on, and I think, oh, it 496 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: was difficult because I didn't really have any background in acting. 497 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 2: I've been around these guys all my life, but I'd 498 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 2: never studied. And I remember going to a class A 499 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 2: good friend of Jack's called Harry Gettis, wonderful guy, took 500 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 2: me to a class at Eric Morris's studio, and I 501 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: was just sort of appalled. There was Linda Crystal on 502 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: the floor begging for a dime. It was, you know, 503 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 2: it was a whole kind of scene in there, and 504 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 2: I remember were coming out and being just indignant and outraged, 505 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 2: and I knew nothing except that I had an instinct. 506 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 2: So shortly thereafter, I was speaking to a friend of 507 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 2: mine and she said I'd like to introduce you to 508 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 2: someone that I think you might like. She's a teacher 509 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 2: and her name is Peggy Fury. And I walked into 510 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 2: Peggy's studio and I audited maybe for three classes before 511 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 2: she said, all right, you know, let's see what you 512 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 2: do in this exercise. And God, I fell in love. 513 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 2: I fell in love with acting. I fell in love 514 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 2: with her. I fell in love with that class. And 515 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 2: I was in that class for about three or four years, 516 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 2: just doing scenes. She turned on all the lights in me, 517 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 2: you know, and around that time, what about her? 518 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: How did she succeed in doing that? 519 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 2: First of all, she really listened, and she really watched you, 520 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 2: and she built up a complicity with me. So someone 521 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 2: was really bad. 522 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: So it's Bob Bridgerson all over again, but a different medium. 523 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. And if someone was really bad in the class 524 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 2: or was sort of hashing it up in a scene 525 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 2: or something, she'd kind of sneak a look at me 526 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 2: or like give me a wink or something. She made 527 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 2: me feel like I knew what I was doing. And 528 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 2: sometimes she'd criticize me outright, but she never embarrassed me. 529 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 2: She loved props. Peggy would love it like if you 530 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 2: brought food into class, because then you know you'd eat 531 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 2: the food after the scene. There was something so motherly 532 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 2: and so warm about her. She reminded me of the 533 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 2: way I was with my mother, and I think that 534 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 2: was something that I really needed at the time. 535 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: And then women helped you. 536 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, women always men. Actually, that's true. It's true. Although 537 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 2: they challenge you women, it's as gentler approach. And I 538 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 2: think men challenge you it's it's not because they love 539 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 2: you less. It's because they want you to prove yourself 540 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 2: somehow or or at least the men in my life 541 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 2: kind of were more attracted to what was independent in me. 542 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: So the first film you do that is a real 543 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: movie that you get some attention. 544 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 2: For is Preaty's Honor. 545 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: He was anywhere with Jack then I was with Jack. 546 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,239 Speaker 1: So when you're on the set of the film and 547 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: it's Jack, it's your boyfriend and your dad. Yeah, and 548 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: you're back on a set with your dad after the 549 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,479 Speaker 1: last go round, wasn't it was not a party? 550 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 2: No? 551 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: And I always remember Jack said to me, I said, 552 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: what was it like on the set of Chinatown where 553 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: it's this iconic director and you have great movie star 554 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: and Polanski is about to become an iconic director. He's 555 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: on his way to that. And I said, what was 556 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: it like with the three of them together? And I'll 557 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: do my bad invitation of your dad too. Jack said that, 558 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: he said that Houston called him Romhan. I know you 559 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: call him Romahan. And he said Polanski would hold forth 560 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,959 Speaker 1: with all this kind of direction, and Houston would turn 561 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: them and say, now, Roman, there are really only two directions, 562 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: a little more or a little less. And I thought, 563 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: what a world to be with these three like titans 564 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: or wherever you want to call him. I'm on the 565 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: set of the film. 566 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 2: Well, so I remember on China Tom Jack going like, 567 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 2: Roman wants me to wear this fucking pandage on my nose. 568 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 2: He doesn't want to shoot my face, he wants this 569 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 2: bandage on my face. Of course, it's the most iconic 570 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 2: still still in movies practically. 571 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: What was it like for you when you were doing Pizzy? 572 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 2: I felt like ooh when I when I first of all, 573 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 2: the part didn't come to me through either of them. 574 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 2: It came to me from John Foreman, who'd put me 575 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 2: in a movie called The Ice Pirates, which was we 576 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 2: used to call them b movies, but it was. It 577 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 2: was a pretty pretty tragic movie in which I played 578 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 2: made of the most powerful swordswoman in the universe. But 579 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 2: I liked it a lot because I got to play 580 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 2: more type. I wasn't playing a wilting flower. I like 581 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 2: that a lot. I got to decapitate men and stuff. 582 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 2: So that was that worked for me pretty well in 583 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 2: that movie. And as I left this set one night, 584 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 2: Oh and my love my love interest was John mctousac. 585 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 2: I used to climb him like a tree. He was 586 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 2: funder for football Player the twos. But anyway, as I 587 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 2: was leaving the set one night, John gave me a 588 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 2: book Pretty's and said, I'd like you to read this, 589 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 2: tell me what you think. So I read it overnight. 590 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 2: I said to him the next day, that's wonderful. It's 591 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 2: such a good book. And he said, dumb. So what 592 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 2: do you think of Mayrose? And I said, wow, that's 593 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 2: a great part. He said, yeah, what do you think 594 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 2: about you playing Mayrose and Jack to play Charlie Partana 595 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 2: and your father to direct. And I. 596 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:28,959 Speaker 1: Don't do that to. 597 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 2: Me, John, God, that's terrible. Don't do that to me. 598 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 2: It's a nightmare, a nightmare. And then he said, well, 599 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 2: we have to go and recruit them, and I went, 600 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,959 Speaker 2: you can recruit them. I'm not going to recruit them. 601 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 2: I'm nothing, not a finger, And then cut to a 602 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 2: couple of weeks later, John is on my doorstep to 603 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 2: pick me up to go to Mexico to talk to 604 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 2: my dad about doing Preatzy's honor, and I said, I'm 605 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 2: not going with you. Yes you are, I went, no, 606 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 2: I'm not. He left alone, furious with me, came back. 607 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 2: He'd been to Mexico. Jack was already in Mexico visiting 608 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 2: with Dad. He'd somehow gotten Jack out there. They'd been 609 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 2: watching the Female gymnass in the Olympics for the better 610 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 2: part of the weekend, and Jack had misunderstood. He thought 611 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 2: the movie was a straight movie. He hadn't read it 612 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 2: as a comedy, But as soon as Dad had explained 613 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 2: to him that it was a comedy, he felt good 614 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 2: about it, and that was it. He was on board. 615 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: When did they find out you were. 616 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 2: On I'm not sure that they knew quite yet. I 617 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 2: might not have. 618 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: How was your father different when he directed you in 619 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: that film than when he directed you in the first 620 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 1: Did he treat you differently? 621 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, because he saw that I knew. 622 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: Happy. 623 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 2: He saw that I was happy in my part. There's 624 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 2: nothing worse than a disgrundled actress, as I'm sure you know. 625 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: And then the film comes out end and. 626 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 2: Good time for you, very good time, very good. 627 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: Did you feel? 628 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:07,760 Speaker 2: I felt? 629 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: Honestly, how did. 630 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 2: You feel vindicated? 631 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 1: You did? 632 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 2: I did? I felt. First of all, it was great 633 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 2: playing the Wrong Girl because it was a movie about 634 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 2: or at least my movie, because it was the movie 635 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 2: within The movie for me was about being the wrong girl, 636 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 2: and so I got to play all of my insecurities. 637 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 2: I got to demonstrate every single insecurity that I had 638 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 2: in a totally confident way. So it was fantastic for me. 639 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: Do things change in terms of what you're going to do, 640 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: who you're going to work with, the script and the 641 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: usual bullshit, the scripts that are sent to you, the 642 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: directors that are bringing up the changes after that, it changes. 643 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:56,720 Speaker 1: Nothing changes your life like an oscar. 644 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 2: Nothing changes here. And also you get offered a bunch 645 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 2: of stuff that you're really wrong for. 646 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: He want you to play Superwoman exactly. Yeahman, in every 647 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: way Supergirl. 648 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 2: We want you to be the blonde part. Yeah, but 649 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 2: I got to play another great part. I got to 650 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,439 Speaker 2: be Lily Dillon and the Grifters, a real blonde part. 651 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 1: How did Jack and your father react when you want? 652 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 2: I think they were a bit flabbergasted. Actually, I remember 653 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 2: I didn't go backstage because I was in such a delirium. 654 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 2: I ran back into the audience and. 655 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: You didn't go do the press lap back. No. 656 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 2: I ran off stage before anyone could steer me in 657 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 2: the right direction. And I went back to my seat 658 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 2: and Jack was crying, and I thought, what's he crying about? 659 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 2: And then I said, my dad was crying. Foreman was crying. 660 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 2: He was probably crying because I forgot to thank him. 661 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,879 Speaker 2: But I couldn't believe it. It's like, how come they're 662 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 2: all and done? 663 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 1: Who's another director that you worked with who you felt 664 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: that really tense? 665 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:05,879 Speaker 2: Oh? The wonderful Nick Rogue. Really I loved working with Nick. 666 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 2: He was so subversive and so fun and naughty and smart. 667 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 2: I did a movie with him called The Witches, and 668 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 2: it's ostensibly for children, it's actually a very sophisticated movie. 669 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 2: It's about Hitler. It's this strange group of women who 670 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 2: come together in a hotel in Cornwall and they all 671 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 2: turn into witches and they turn little boys into mice, 672 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 2: and it's really a very good movie. I have to 673 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 2: say it was certainly one of my best experiences. 674 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: I grew up and watched a lot of television for 675 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 1: a very specific period of my life. I watched f 676 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 1: Troop in Gilligan's Island, and The Munsters, and The Adams 677 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: Family and Cantid Camera, and I watched and when as 678 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: soon as the Aaron Spelling era was launched, I never 679 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: turned on the last broadcast TV show I watched with 680 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: any regularity, as I used to watch Mary Hartman. Mary 681 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: Hartman was the last show I watched. So if you 682 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,240 Speaker 1: told me that someone was going to take The Adams 683 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,839 Speaker 1: Family and make it into a film that I thought 684 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: was really, really funny, I'd say, you're out of your 685 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 1: fucking mind. And yet it's two of the funniest movies 686 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my life. How did that happen? 687 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 2: Well, I'd have to say Barry was fabulous, But there 688 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:30,280 Speaker 2: was the genius Scott Rudin. And I think Scott. Scott 689 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 2: is so passionate about the work. He's an amazing producer 690 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 2: and he I remember him being there day and night 691 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 2: for every scene. 692 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: For people who don't know, Son and Philip was a 693 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: great cinematographer before he directed. Yeah, directed films. I needed 694 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 1: a good producer. 695 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 2: Probably, Oh, unbelievable. And I think occasionally they fought, but 696 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 2: we never knew about it. They were set. Yeah, they 697 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 2: were absolutely unified, and I'd get into a really bad 698 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 2: mood because I had I had lifts on my eyes 699 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 2: and lifts on my neck and corsets and nails, and 700 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 2: you know, it was the. 701 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: Most like a four hour makeup job to. 702 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 2: Four hour makeup job, and it took another two hours 703 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,319 Speaker 2: to prep me before I went on set, and it 704 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 2: was just brutal. You couldn't sit down in the dress. 705 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,879 Speaker 2: It was a nightmare. And every once in a while 706 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 2: you'd have to wait for thing to work, you know, 707 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 2: and it were like, come on six hours later, you 708 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,800 Speaker 2: guys have to be kidding me. And they become and 709 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 2: apologized in the sweetest way. 710 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. I did Cat in the Hat with Mike Myers, 711 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: and they said, now remember that Mike comes in and 712 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: we get him in makeup, and once he's done in makeup, 713 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: and we have we've pre lit his sets and we've 714 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: rehearsed the scenes and they go and they said, we're 715 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,879 Speaker 1: so frantic about the time we have Mike available because 716 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: he's only going to work so many hours in his contry. 717 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: Then we got to take all this shit off of him. 718 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: They said, please, don't be offended. But whatever scene you're 719 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: in the middle of, and you're gonna be in mid 720 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: and when we they walk you talk to us that 721 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: Mike is ready. We're going to just stop everything and 722 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 1: leave you dead. We're going to leave you by the 723 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: side of the road. 724 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,880 Speaker 2: Well that's what it was like, except for Mike, and 725 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 2: this occasion was the thing, a hairy thing. 726 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 1: When I came to New York in seventy nine, I 727 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 1: came to New York and somebody who I admired, I 728 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: mean to the ends of the earth was Raoul. 729 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 2: I loved h What a prince o, the loveliest, sweetest 730 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 2: contact man, talented, used to sing opera to the children 731 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,800 Speaker 2: between takes. I mean, he'd do anything special. 732 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: Were some of the other leading men that you really 733 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,760 Speaker 1: really thought that this was really a great battery. 734 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 2: That's a difficult question. I have to go to Jack, 735 00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:01,400 Speaker 2: you know, of course, just because the great ones provide 736 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 2: and it's not necessarily because you notice how great they're being. 737 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 2: It's just that they're there for you. Jack did a 738 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,280 Speaker 2: thing in Preatsy's where I come out of the wedding 739 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 2: scene and my father's been a real asshole to me, 740 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:20,440 Speaker 2: and and I'm crying and Jack offers me his handkerchief. Now, 741 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,280 Speaker 2: you know, an audience doesn't really know what that means 742 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,440 Speaker 2: at that time, but he gave me the opportunity to 743 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 2: blow my nose really loud. You know, it's a comedy, 744 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,720 Speaker 2: that's what it is. It's somebody who you can work 745 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 2: off with, who you have that kind of repartee. I 746 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 2: had it with Cusack and the Grifters. 747 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,359 Speaker 1: It's it's it's nice when you play, when you play 748 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 1: with someone that hits the ball. 749 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 2: Back, Oh, absolutely bad. 750 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,040 Speaker 1: And Cusack, who is kind of an enigma to me. 751 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: He falls into that category of these preternaturally talented men, 752 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 1: young leading men and brilliant actor while he was young. Yeah, 753 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's a great thing to be able to 754 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,880 Speaker 1: put the Rubik's cube together while you still have the 755 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: shine on you of the youth and beauty. And he's 756 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,800 Speaker 1: a very very talented guy who then all of a 757 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,600 Speaker 1: sudden he doesn't look like he really wants to work 758 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: very much. 759 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:15,839 Speaker 2: I don't know. 760 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: I'm not saying you would be missing. It's interesting to 761 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 1: me how he did a row of great films and 762 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:22,720 Speaker 1: then it's kind of like he couldn't It was almost 763 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: like he couldn't find anything he liked. 764 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, he burned out a bit. I mean, he was 765 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,759 Speaker 2: amazing in that movie. I was completely mesmerized by him. 766 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,440 Speaker 2: I was mesmerized by Anette Benning too. I have to 767 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 2: say when I went in to read, Martin Scorsese and 768 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,759 Speaker 2: Stephen were producing the film as well as Stephen was 769 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 2: directing it, and it was my instinct that I should 770 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 2: be a blonde. But I didn't put on a wig 771 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 2: to go for the meeting. I thought that was a 772 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,399 Speaker 2: bit on the nose. So I just wore a very 773 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,000 Speaker 2: suggestive dress and you know, went in and within the 774 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 2: first ten minutes Stephen said, what if you were a blonde? 775 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,239 Speaker 2: And I thought, he gets it, He gets it, He 776 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:06,640 Speaker 2: gets me cool. 777 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,440 Speaker 1: Did your dad, because of his great, great career, did 778 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,920 Speaker 1: he have film that he was really the most proud of, Like, 779 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,879 Speaker 1: what did he feel was his best work? 780 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,760 Speaker 2: Well? I think he had a special regard for Treasure 781 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 2: of Sarah Andre because of his dad, because he brought 782 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,759 Speaker 2: his dad to an Academy award. And I think it's 783 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 2: like the best performance in movies. Frankly, if you haven't 784 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,840 Speaker 2: seen that movie in a while and you you relook 785 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:42,320 Speaker 2: at that movie, it's magical, that performance. And I think 786 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 2: his direction to his father was speak fast, honest, men, 787 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:49,760 Speaker 2: speak fast. 788 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,960 Speaker 1: I'd sit there with my friends whenever we were huddled 789 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 1: around in the wee hours we since the party was over, 790 00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:58,800 Speaker 1: and you knew that men were going to fall asleep. 791 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: I turned them. I'd say, what's three times thirty five 792 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,360 Speaker 1: thousand dollars about you? One hundred and five thousand dollars? 793 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,120 Speaker 1: You fall asleep before I do, I'd say, beauguard around 794 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,279 Speaker 1: the fabulous one of the greatest movies ever made. You 795 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: directed one movie? Correct? 796 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:14,359 Speaker 2: Three? 797 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:16,240 Speaker 1: What was the first one you directed? 798 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,279 Speaker 2: It was called Bastard out of Carolina. 799 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 1: What was it that propelled you to want to get 800 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: behind the camera take on that job? 801 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,720 Speaker 2: Well, I'd always wanted to direct, and it so happened 802 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 2: that the director fell out of the movie and I 803 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 2: was offered it over a weekend literally, and my agent 804 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 2: knew that I was interested in directing something. We didn't 805 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,759 Speaker 2: quite know what it would be, and I read the 806 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,279 Speaker 2: script and I really liked it. 807 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:44,640 Speaker 1: Did you enjoy the process? 808 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 2: I loved it? 809 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 1: You did? Oh? 810 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:46,840 Speaker 2: I loved it? 811 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 1: What about it? 812 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,880 Speaker 2: The first morning I went to my trailer and my 813 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,600 Speaker 2: heart was beating, and I was waiting and waiting and 814 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 2: waiting for the knock on my door to call me 815 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:05,360 Speaker 2: to set. I didn't even understand that the director. I 816 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,120 Speaker 2: think that I have known a little better with John 817 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,120 Speaker 2: Houston as a father. But that's how excited and out 818 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,800 Speaker 2: of my mind I was. The part I love best 819 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,600 Speaker 2: was working with the kids. Jennam alone was a brilliant 820 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,239 Speaker 2: little actress and fun. 821 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: Are you going to direct another movie? You think? 822 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,479 Speaker 2: You know if I found the right thing in a way. 823 00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,080 Speaker 2: You know I'm lazy and that I wanted to find me. 824 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:34,719 Speaker 2: But things do. I think when synergy works, that's how 825 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:35,240 Speaker 2: it works. 826 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for doing this. 827 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:38,839 Speaker 2: Oh God, bless you, Thank you. 828 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 1: Actress icon Angelica Houston. She has written a captivating memoir 829 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,759 Speaker 1: in two parts, A Story Lately Told and Watched Me. 830 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,080 Speaker 1: The first half covers her childhood and teenage years in 831 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,280 Speaker 1: Ireland and England, while the second half is a romp 832 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,600 Speaker 1: through her day is on the modeling circuit and in Hollywood. 833 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,360 Speaker 1: Both are told with emotional depth and graceful humor, and 834 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 1: I can't recommend them highly enough. I'm Alec Baldwin and 835 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,200 Speaker 1: this is here's the thing