1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Midland is the capital of the Permian oil region. Everything 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: in Midland is about oil and about money. The main 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: tourist attraction is a petroleum mussoon in front of the 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: petroleum Club in the town. 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 2: You have this massive display. 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: They say, let's make oil great again, mogag and the 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: also the display goes on, they say today is a 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 1: great day to drill for oil. 9 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 3: That's Hoavier Blast. He's a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion and 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,959 Speaker 3: he reports on the oil industry for years. Javier has 11 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 3: traveled to the region of West Texas that's an epicenter 12 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 3: of the shell oil drilling bonanza that has powered the 13 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 3: US economy, shaken up global energy markets, and shaped geopolitics 14 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 3: for more than a decade. 15 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: And I was talking to executives and said, well, is 16 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: it really a great day to drill for oil? Because 17 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: you are not really nearly as much as you used to. 18 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,319 Speaker 3: Now the beginning of the end is within sight and 19 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 3: Wall Street is demanding its share of the bounty before 20 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 3: it's over. 21 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: And that kind of really tailwind that the shale revolution 22 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: has been for the US economy and US politics is 23 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: not going to be there. 24 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 3: I'm Westkasova today on the big take what if anything 25 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 3: can replace the great American oil boom? Jabier, Can you 26 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 3: start by telling us why the Shell Revolution in the 27 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 3: US turned out to be such a transformative thing. 28 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: For about twenty years, we thought that US oil production 29 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: was on a secular decline, that the US was going 30 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: to produce less and less every year, and that it 31 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: was going to rely on the international market, and that 32 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: means really buying more from places like Saudi Arabia and 33 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: this Willa and. 34 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: Opeg more and more. 35 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: And then when the Shell Revolution started about twenty years ago, 36 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: that was really throwaway and completely reversed. The US production 37 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: started to increase every year. The US was pumping more oil. 38 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: When you put all in total, the US was producing 39 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: about eight million bars a day and today is producing 40 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: about twenty million bars a day. The US went from 41 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: being energy poor to be so rich that it can 42 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: esport his energy overseas. It was just a once in 43 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: a several generations transformation. 44 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 3: And all of that oil production had an enormous effect too. 45 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,679 Speaker 3: And oil prices both in the US in a global 46 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 3: oil market, well. 47 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: I would say that three things happened thanks to the 48 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: Shell Revolution. The first one is that oil prices were 49 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: lower than otherwise. We don't have a counterfactual to say, oh, well, 50 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: oil prices without share would have been twenty or thirty 51 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: or fifty percent higher. But we know that the shelled 52 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: Revolution adds a lot of supply into the market and 53 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: that kept prices lower than otherwise. For the US economy 54 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: was also a massive boom. It was a lot of 55 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: investment going into Texas, New Mexico, Dakota, Oklahoma. It was 56 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: highly intensive on capital but also highly intensive on manpower. 57 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: All the sudden unemployment in the oil path went to 58 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: record lows. 59 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 2: It was just full employment. 60 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: Workers from outside those states were flowing into Texas for jobs. 61 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: Driving a track in West Texas was paying one hundred 62 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: and fifty one hundred and seventy thousand dollars a year. 63 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: And also it changed politics the US. All the southern 64 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: have a stronger hand on global geopolitics. The White House 65 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: all the way from the seventies have been always constrained 66 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: on what it could do against oil countries because it 67 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: was was fearful that prices will go through the roof 68 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: Casoline prices is a price that every Americans see every day, 69 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: and it can't really topple a government or lose an election. 70 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: All of a sudden, Shale changed that, and the White 71 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: House for the first time could go and say to Venezuela, 72 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: we are going to imposetions on you. Say to Russia, 73 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: We're going to impose antions on you. Say to Iran, 74 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 1: either you negotiate with US a nuclear deal, or we 75 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: are going to go and restrict the way that you 76 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: can esport oil. And that have never happened in US 77 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,799 Speaker 1: politics for at least thirty forty years. 78 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 3: And also in that mix, of course, is Saudi Arabia 79 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 3: and the other OPEK producing nations. 80 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: The US all of a sudden became a rival to 81 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia and OPEK. It was like the US for 82 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,679 Speaker 1: the first time has the same force. They were equal 83 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: in this kind of battle for the control of the 84 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: oil market, to the point that OPEK launched a price 85 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: war against the shale producers if float the market in 86 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen fifteen, trying to drive prices down to a 87 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: level that will bank rap the US shale industry. 88 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 4: OPAK refused to yield its production to shale rivals, and 89 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 4: the collapse in oil prices is having a ripple effect 90 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 4: across global markets. The decision in Vienna sent crude features 91 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 4: to four year lows and shave ten percent of the 92 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 4: price of oil this week. At these levels, some shale 93 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 4: producers could lose money, and that. 94 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: Was really a realization by Opek that they have lost 95 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: control of the market, that they needed to go nuclear. 96 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: They really went all in to try to regain control 97 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: of the market, tried to bank rap the industry because 98 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: this competitor was too strong for Opek. 99 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 3: And that did not work. 100 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: It didn't work. 101 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: Because yes, a lot of companies went into bankruptcy, prices collapse. 102 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: Dust drilling also fell sharply, but the companies that emerged 103 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: from that became leaner, fitter, faster, and very soon Opek 104 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: found that shale auction was booming again, that the US 105 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: was sporting oil overseas, and that the market. 106 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:06,559 Speaker 2: Was flooded with oil. 107 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,679 Speaker 1: And that's the reason that from an average of around 108 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: one hundred dollars for a few years from twenty ten 109 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: to around twenty and fourteen, oil prices in the following 110 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: five years average about half of that. 111 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 3: For listeners who might not be as familiar with what 112 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 3: shale drilling is, can you explain why it was a 113 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 3: revolutionary and how it's different from traditional oil drilling. 114 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 2: Put it in very simple terms. 115 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: Traditional oil drilling, you drill a vertical pipeline a hole 116 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: in the ground, and you go vertical down and you 117 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 1: are aiming to heat a spot that is basically under 118 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: your feet. What shale formations look like is more like 119 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: a tiamizou cake. There are many malli layers of productive 120 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: strata with oil, but they are very compressed and the 121 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 1: rock is non porous, so to reach them you have 122 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: to go vertical, and then you need to turn around 123 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: and go horizontal underground for a very long length and 124 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: then blast the rock with water, sand and chemicals to 125 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: fracture that rock and to get the oil flowing. That's 126 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: what we call fracking. And drilling that way was unthinkable 127 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: about thirty years ago. Even at the very early days 128 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: of the Shelle Revolution. The industry as a whole was 129 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: deeply sceptical that this was gonna work. And you know, 130 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: we all were skeptical. So I remember hearing about this 131 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: about fifteen years ago, and I was thinking, So, they're 132 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: gonna drill a hole vertically, and they're gonna go horizontal 133 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: for about fifteen thousand feet and they're gonna blast it 134 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: and they're gonna get the oil getting out of the ground, 135 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: and this is gonna work. And I was like, oh god, 136 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: that is really very difficult. I don't see how this 137 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: is gonna work. Oh boy, how wrong I was. Many 138 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: people in the industry were a slow realized the potential. 139 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: But it was a bunch of Maverick oil executives whould 140 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: really try these first. It was not big Oil, This 141 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: was not Trevron or Exomobile. This was a bunch of 142 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: people in places like North Dakota and West Texas who 143 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: pioneered this technique. 144 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 3: And the thing that made it such a big deal 145 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 3: was that just at a time when a lot of 146 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 3: people were thinking that the US oil reserves are kind 147 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 3: of largely tapped out, they were able to access these 148 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 3: pockets of oil that beforehand would have been way too 149 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 3: expensive to try to get into. It wouldn't have been. 150 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 2: Worth the cost. 151 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: You think about the Permian oil, which is this region 152 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 1: in West Texas southeast New Mexico. Oil companies have been 153 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: drilling there for about one hundred years. Indeed, twenty twenty 154 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: three marks the one hundred anniversary of oil production. What 155 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: we do think commercial oil production in the region. So 156 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: people were thinking that the results were mostly exhausted, that 157 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: the shale formations were too difficult technically to tap. And 158 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: this new techniques, as I said, the horizontal drilling combined 159 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: with the fracking, is what really untapped the reserves. The 160 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: oil was there, the oil was just waiting for someone 161 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: to find a way to do it. 162 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 2: There is a catch here. 163 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: It is expensive to do and because of the nature 164 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: of those reserves. 165 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 2: Oil production is a gusher for a. 166 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: Few days and then it comes down very very quickly, 167 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: and that was what made shale different. 168 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 2: But also very complicated. 169 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: And you want another bars of production, you need to 170 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: drill another well, and another well and another well. So 171 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: the oil industry found itself and a bit of a 172 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: thread meal and a thread meal that it was just 173 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: running quite fast. 174 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 3: One of the things you write is that after these 175 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 3: kind of innovative companies got in there and were able 176 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 3: to pioneer this new way of drilling, then everybody wanted 177 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 3: to get in on it. 178 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: Shale became the hotels area of the oil in the street. 179 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: It attracted capital from Wallace Street packing. These pioneers, the 180 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: early cowboys, but then everyone figured out this is the 181 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: place to be so very quickly. Chevron have had properties 182 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: in the Permian for many, many years, as long as 183 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: seventy five years ago. They never sold the ackage, but 184 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: they kept their achraage on their books, basically thinking that 185 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 1: their value was pretty much zero. And all of a 186 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: sudden they were like, hold on second, we own lane 187 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: alongside where these other guys are producing a lot. 188 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: We can't do that. 189 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: So Big Oil kind of figure out, well, let's join 190 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: the revolution, and that's where Chevron started doing it, Conoco 191 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: Philev started doing it, and then ultimately Exxon also arrived 192 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: there and also joined the Shelle Revolution, to the point 193 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: that you look at what Exon is doing today, the 194 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: Permia and West Texas is really where they are drilling 195 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: the most, and they're putting quale lots of their capital 196 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: at play. 197 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 3: After the break, oil companies set growth aside to focus 198 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 3: on making money for shareholders. However, before the break you 199 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 3: were talking about one of the drawbacks of this show 200 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,599 Speaker 3: revolution was how much money it took to drill these wells, 201 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 3: and that started causing a lot of tension between the 202 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 3: companies and the investors in those companies. 203 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: To understand that tension, I went to Midland, Texas. That 204 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: is a relatively small town population about one hundred thousand people, 205 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: and that's actually where George Bush Senior settled and created 206 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: his first oil business before many years later went into 207 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 1: politics and finally became the President of the United States. 208 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: And you can see it Midland. There is a desire 209 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: to make money for an oil that's the problem. There 210 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: is the pressure to make profit. This shale revolution was 211 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: fantastic for the United States as a whole. The economy benefited, 212 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: but investors lost a lot of money. The companies needed 213 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: to reinvest so much of their profits to keep up 214 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: with that thread meal of drilling wells and drilling wells 215 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: to increase production that at times, very early days, they 216 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: were putting back into drilling fifty percent of their profits. 217 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: That went up to eighty percent, that went up to 218 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: one hundred percent, and very soon they were borrowing money 219 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: because they needed to reinvest one hundred and fifty percent 220 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: of their profits to continue drilling. And for a few years, 221 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: Waller Street was happy with that. It was similar to 222 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: the technology industry. You put money early, you take the 223 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: losses because. 224 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: You want to grow. 225 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: You are expected at some point you achieve a critical 226 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: mass and then you don't need to grow that much 227 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: and you can start making money. 228 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 2: But that never really happened with shale. 229 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: All the time, the companies needed to reinvest a lot 230 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: of money and drill more and keep lossing money. So 231 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: at some point Wall Street said enough is enough. It 232 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: was held by the fact that oil prices collapsed during 233 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: the pandemic, and then the industry went into a massive restructuring. 234 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: Companies abandoned these targets of growing and growing and they 235 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: focus on returning money to shareholders, and drilling has come 236 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: down massively in West Texas and across the United States. 237 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: Prices for oil remained quite high by historical standards. It's 238 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: still seventy to seventy five dollars a barrel, but drilling 239 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: has come down significantly, and it's about half of what 240 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: used to be at the peak of the revolution. 241 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 3: You have the striking line in one of the pieces 242 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 3: you've written about this, and you called the shale boom 243 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 3: the most profitable example of capital destruction the energy industry 244 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 3: has ever seen. 245 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: I say that because I think it was very profitable 246 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: for the United States as a whole. You think that 247 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: consumers benefited because they enjoy lower gasoline prices and also 248 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: lower gas prices the economy as a whole benefited by 249 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: the increasing investment capital investment shale is a process that 250 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: requires a lot of money to be spent on everything 251 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: from chemicals to steal to manpowered et cetera, et cetera. 252 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: And it was also great for the White House and 253 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: American politics in the terms of giving the US a 254 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: very strong handing energy geopolitics. But it was capital destructions 255 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: in the sense that Wallace Street lost a lot of money. 256 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 2: About for each dollar. 257 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: That investors put in shale, they recovered only fifty cents. 258 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 3: You also write that as wall Street started demanding profits 259 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 3: that production was no longer going to satisfy them. The 260 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 3: industry started to consolidate very rapidly. 261 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: We have seen quite a lot of mergers and acquisitions, 262 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: and this goes back to the origins of shale. It 263 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: was not the big oil companies, It was the smaller companies. 264 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: It was the mavericks, a bit of the cowboys. The 265 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: shale industry is full of great characters, CEOs who created 266 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: their companies for nothing and then created these multi billion 267 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: dollar oil companies. But that was good for the early 268 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: days for a lot of experimentation, for a lot of losses, 269 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: but for a lot of excitement and growth. When you 270 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: need to deliver return size matters, consolidation came. Companies needed 271 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: synergies do more with less money, and we have seen 272 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: a lot of emergency and acquisitions in the shale path. 273 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: And also we have seen the big oil companies like 274 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: XO Mobile have entered into the shale industry and have 275 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: both others to very very quickly grow haer. 276 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: Has that worked. 277 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 3: Has the consolidation now given Wall Street what it wants? 278 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 3: Are they able to now make money. 279 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: For the first time, We're beginning to see Wall Street 280 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: making money from shale. It has helped obviously that oil 281 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: prices were high last year. But we have seen is 282 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: that companies are no longer reinvesting in the majority or 283 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: even more than what they are making in profits into 284 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: new production. Now that has come down and companies are 285 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: aiming to reinvest something between thirty thirty five percent all 286 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: the way to fifty percent. But the other half of 287 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: the money that they are making is being sent to shareholders, 288 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: whether it's dividends or buy backs special dividends. But Wall 289 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: Street is getting the money obviously, that has a price, 290 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: and the price is that shale cannot growth production nearly 291 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: as fast as it did. Don't get me wrong, shale 292 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: production is still growing and probably it's going to grow 293 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: for a few more years, but the rate of growth 294 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: has slowed down significantly. It is even slower that we 295 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: will be expected at similar prices. 296 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: We're beginning to see even a. 297 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: More of a slow down trend in twenty twenty three 298 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: that's going to go into twenty twenty four. And it 299 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: was very interesting on my last trip to the Permian 300 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: was how openly people in the industry that have for 301 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: many years basically only talk about growth, we're talking for 302 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: the first time that US oil production is gonna pick. 303 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: There is no agreement when it's gonna happen, but everyone 304 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: now sees this peak looming in the horizon. I think 305 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: that probably the consensus is in the industries that is 306 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: gonna happen in the next three to five years, somewhere 307 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: between twenty twenty six and twenty twenty eight. But US 308 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: oil production that has been growing all the way since 309 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight now may peak. And that is 310 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: a huge change in the industry because also means that 311 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: unless oil demand stops growing, if the US cannot growth anymore, 312 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: we have to go somewhere else for oil, and that's 313 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 1: gonna be where the US was back thirty years ago 314 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: into the Saudi Aravian Opek hunts. 315 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 3: When we come back, why peak shell oil might actually 316 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 3: be a problem for the transition to clean energy. You 317 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 3: said that if the man for early and the US 318 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 3: keeps growing and production and falls, we're going to need 319 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 3: to go elsewhere for that oil. But what we're seeing 320 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 3: now is a lot of talk about transitioning away from oil, 321 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 3: and in fact some of that actually happening. And you 322 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 3: write that the shell revolution bought the world time for that. 323 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that, Well, you think about 324 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: when the revolution started. It is around the time that 325 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: Tesla was really starting to become the company. 326 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 2: That we now today. 327 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: They were not ready to mass market electric b because 328 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: we didn't have yet the technology on batteries that we 329 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: have today. 330 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 5: Tesla is best known for it's one hundred and nine 331 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 5: thousand dollars all electric roadster. The company apparently wants to 332 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 5: take advantage of investor interest in green technology and battery 333 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 5: powered vehicles. 334 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: Back fifteen twenty years ago, we were still completely reliant 335 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: on internal combustion engines of cars powered by gasoline and diesel. 336 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 2: We didn't have. 337 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: Really the option that we are beginning to see today 338 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: that we can move into the electrification of transportation into 339 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: electric vehicles, whether it's Test, Louder any other brand. And 340 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: if we have not had shale and demand was increasing 341 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: and the supply was a bit stuck, nan but we 342 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: will have found ourselves and the global economy is with 343 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: much higher prices, much higher inflation, we will have had 344 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: an economic problem. 345 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 2: So in some ways shale gave the whole. 346 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: Economy a bit of time to get ready for a 347 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: world where at some point in shale is not going 348 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: to be there. 349 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 3: We talked a little bit earlier about geopolitics and oil, 350 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 3: which is always front and center. Certainly with Russia's were 351 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 3: in Ukraine, the politics around oil and using oil sort 352 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 3: of as a weapon has come up, and so that 353 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 3: is still very much a big part of this conversation. 354 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: It is and if you think about the sansiens that 355 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: the G seven impost on Russia, crippling the ability of 356 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: the Kremlin to sell his oil, and then the health 357 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 1: that the United s that is provided to Europe sporting 358 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: a lot of liquify natural gas that would have not 359 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: been possible without shale. At the same time, there's also 360 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: the limits of shale. Shale is not a magic pill 361 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: that solves every energy problem. It helps, but it doesn't 362 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: really give you the magic solution that is going to 363 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: make the US energy independent and Europe is not going 364 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: to have to buy anything from Russia. It is a 365 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: very large energy system, but it really helps increasing production 366 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: and therefore giving the system more flexibility. 367 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 3: So if you look out into the future, which I 368 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 3: know you always do, what do you see? What is 369 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 3: your forecast for how this plays out? 370 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: There are two skulls of thoughts, and I'm going to 371 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: tell you what the two are out there. And then 372 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: where I said, there is a school of thought that says, well, 373 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: this is not a problem. Shale grow slows down and 374 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: ultimately picks in the next five years. 375 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 2: But so is oil demand. 376 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: Because of electrification, evs, electric veh course, we're going to 377 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: start needing less and less oil. 378 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 2: So even if the. 379 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: US is not growing production, that's not a problem because 380 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: oil demand is gonna stop growing also and it's gonna fall. 381 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: The other school of thoughts says, well, actually oil demand 382 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: growth is going to prove more sticky that people think, yes, 383 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: we are going to start electrifying our big course. But 384 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: if you think of all the oil that we use, 385 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: only about our quarter is gasoline. A lot of the 386 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: other oil is for things that they cannot be really 387 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: easily electrified. You struggle to electrify the big tracks that 388 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: move in diesel, You struggle to electrify all the construction equipment, 389 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: the petrochemical industry, aviation, et cetera, et cetera. And oil 390 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: demand may continue growing beyond twenty twenty six to twenty seven, 391 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: even all the way into the twenty thirties, and perhaps 392 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: it stops growing, but it doesn't really fall very very quickly. 393 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: That's the second score of thought, and that is the 394 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: more worrisome one, because that will mean that the US 395 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: is going to have to go back to Soudia, United 396 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: Arab EMI days and open countries. 397 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 2: I am more on the second one. 398 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: I'm a bit worried that the energy transition is not 399 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: going at the base that we need both to fight 400 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: climate change but also to avoid high prices later this 401 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: decade and into the twenty and thirties. 402 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 3: And if that comes to pass, Americans who have not 403 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 3: had to think about energy security in a long time 404 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 3: certainly might have to. Do you think that that's something 405 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 3: that we should all be worried about. 406 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: I think that we should be worried about because the 407 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,479 Speaker 1: US has had these kind of wake up moments all 408 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: the sudden politically that they were really unexpected. No one 409 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: really saw it coming, the oil crisis in the seventies 410 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: and eighties, and when it came, it really basically became 411 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: the major subject for some presidencies. I mean, Jimmy Carter 412 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: presidency was a lot of it about oil prices and 413 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: gasoline prices and dealing with the Middle East. 414 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 6: It's a problem that we will not be able to 415 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 6: solve in the next few years, and it's likely to 416 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 6: get progressively worse through the rest of the century. We 417 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 6: must not be solf a short timid If we hope 418 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 6: to have a world for our children and our grandchildren, 419 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 6: we something must balance our demand for energy with our 420 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 6: rapid and shrinking resources. 421 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: So the last few presidencies have it easy in some 422 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: ways because they. 423 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 2: Have not to really worry about oil. 424 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: I mean, all of a sudden, the United States was 425 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: sporting It was almost a problem of riches I mean 426 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: Barack Obama if he could have gone back to the 427 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: seventies and early eighties and telling Jimmy Carter oil is 428 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 1: not the longer a problem. We are actually exporting oil 429 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: everywhere and helping. 430 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: Europe et cetera, et cetera. 431 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: And I worry that perhaps come back in five years time, 432 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 1: a president in the White House is going to have 433 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: to worry again about oil in a major way, and 434 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: that kind of really tail wind that the shale revolution 435 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: has been for US economy and US politics is not 436 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: going to be there. 437 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 3: So what is the answer from a policy perspective? If 438 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 3: oil production is naturally going down, and if electrification and 439 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 3: other forms of renewable energy aren't rising quickly enough, is 440 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 3: there a policy solution that can bridge that gap. 441 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: The most obvious one is to reduce gasoline consumption as 442 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: quickly as you can, So you can do that different ways. 443 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: You can try to speed up production of electric vehicles, 444 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: speed up the logistics of electric vehicles, because I think 445 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: that a lot of people worry about where to charge 446 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: those electric vehicles. You could tax gasoline and make it 447 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: more prices so people use it less. But all of 448 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: those policies have a lot of handicaps. I'm not a politician, 449 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: but I know that I will not win a single 450 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: boat if I was running for office promising to increase 451 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: taxes on gasoline significantly. So what I will say is, 452 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: in some ways politicians have had it a bit easier 453 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: the last few years thanks to shale that has kept prices. 454 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 2: Lower than otherwise. Doing the energy transition. 455 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: In a situation in which prices are going higher for 456 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: gasoline and other refined products, it's going to be more 457 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: difficult because people are going to blame the transition on 458 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: those prices, even if it's not completely related. 459 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 2: And I fear. 460 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: That the public support for any transition may wane if 461 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: prices go up. 462 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 3: Javier, thanks so much for coming on the show. 463 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. 464 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to us here at The Big Take. 465 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 3: It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more 466 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 3: shows from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 467 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 3: wherever you listen, and we'd love to hear from you. 468 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 3: Email us questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg 469 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 3: dot net. The supervising producer of The Big Take is 470 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 3: Vicky Burgolina, our senior producer is Katherine Fink. Our producers 471 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 3: are Michael Fallero and Moberro. Raphael M. Sealy is our engineer. 472 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 3: Our original music was composed by Leo Sidrin. I'm Westcsova. 473 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 3: We'll be back on Monday with an another big take. 474 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 3: Have a great weekend.