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Speaker 1: Coming up on You Need Therapy.

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Speaker 2: There's a guy who came to one of our writer

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Speaker 2: your Story workshops and he was like, I want to

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Speaker 2: tell this story about how I went out in the

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Speaker 2: woods for three months, like lived in the wild and

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Speaker 2: had this amazing, cool, transformative experience, which is an interesting story.

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Speaker 2: But as I got started talking to him, I thought

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Speaker 2: to ask, what made you want to do that? Then

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Speaker 2: told me that his younger sister I'd been hit and

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Speaker 2: killed by a drunk driver, and he said going to

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Speaker 2: the woods was the only way that I avoided going

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Speaker 2: to jail. And I just was like, talk about burying

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Speaker 2: the leave. I started to realize that not being an

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Speaker 2: expert isn't a liability, it's a real gift. If we

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Speaker 2: don't know something about ourselves at this point in our life,

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Speaker 2: it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know. If you can

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Speaker 2: die before you die, then you can really live. There's

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Speaker 2: a wisdom at death's door. I thought I was insane, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't know what to do because there was

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Speaker 2: no internet.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, man, I feel like everything is hard.

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Speaker 1: Hey y'all, my name is Kat.

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Speaker 3: I'm a human first and a licensed therapist second, and

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Speaker 3: right now, I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope

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Speaker 3: encourage you to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,

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Speaker 3: and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy.

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Speaker 3: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You

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Speaker 3: Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat, and before I

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Speaker 3: introduce today's guest, I wanted to give a quick reminder

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Speaker 3: that although this podcast is hosted by a therapist, it

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Speaker 3: does not serve as a replacement or a substitute for

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Speaker 3: any actual mental health services. However, I always hope that

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Speaker 3: these episodes can offer a source of hope or light

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Speaker 3: and help in some way wherever you are in your journey.

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Speaker 3: And I actually think today especially that is going to

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Speaker 3: be true for a lot of you, because the guest

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Speaker 3: I have has something really really special to share that

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Speaker 3: I think is going to impact a lot of people's

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Speaker 3: lives and has already started to impact mine. Our guest

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Speaker 3: is a returning guest. Her name is Ali Fallon. She's

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Speaker 3: a writer, She's a writing coach. She hosts a podcast

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Speaker 3: called Write Your Story. She has so many amazing gifts

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Speaker 3: and it has Honestly, she has so many amazing gifts

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Speaker 3: and then she's gifted in the way she's able to

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Speaker 3: share them. So I'm really really excited for you guys

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Speaker 3: to hear the conversation we had. Mainly, I was excited

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Speaker 3: to do this interview for selfish reasons because I just

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Speaker 3: had so many questions about the book that Ali has

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Speaker 3: coming out, and that book is called Write Your Story.

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Speaker 3: It's a simple framework to understanding yourself, your story, and

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Speaker 3: your purpose in the world. It comes out May seventh, however,

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Speaker 3: you can pre order it now, and I want to

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Speaker 3: give you a little pro tip that if any of

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Speaker 3: the stuff that we're talking about sounds interesting to you,

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Speaker 3: I would go ahead and pre order the book because

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Speaker 3: it comes with so many good extras that are going

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Speaker 3: to take your journey that this book takes you on

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Speaker 3: even further and deeper and definitely worth pre order. So

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Speaker 3: you can pre order that now. The book comes out

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Speaker 3: May seventh, and I'm pretty sure if you pre order

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Speaker 3: it you actually get a couple of the chapters in advance,

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Speaker 3: so you can start digging into it right away. I

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Speaker 3: can talk and talk and talk forever about how impactful

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Speaker 3: Ali has been not only on my own life but

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Speaker 3: also in the work that I do.

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Speaker 1: As I was reading this book Write Your Story.

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Speaker 3: I was having a lot of my own personal thoughts

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Speaker 3: come up and was taking all these notes in the book.

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Speaker 3: And my first thought as I was taking these notes,

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Speaker 3: I guess I won't be letting my clients bar this

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Speaker 3: book because that's all my personal information written in it.

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Speaker 3: But also as I was doing that, I was so

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Speaker 3: excited because not only is this going to be helpful

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Speaker 3: for me, but it is going to be a tool

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Speaker 3: that I can use with my clients that I'm really

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Speaker 3: excited to be able to share with them. So I

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Speaker 3: know you guys are going to get so much out

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Speaker 3: of what she's offering. And I hope that you enjoy

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Speaker 3: the conversation that we have. Ali, thank you so much

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Speaker 3: for doing what you do and sharing your.

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Speaker 1: Gift with us. And here is my conversation with Ali Fan.

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Speaker 3: I'm here with a returning guest, but I think a

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Speaker 3: returning guest from like twenty twenty, Ali Fallon is here. Hi.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Yeah, I'm remembering doing the interview from La so

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Speaker 2: would have How to Be twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: So she's back again to talk about a lot of things,

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Speaker 3: but she's coming out with a new book called Write

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Speaker 3: Your Story, and I was just telling her before we

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Speaker 3: hit record, and I had texted her yesterday the book

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Speaker 3: is so good, and I'm reading it from a I think,

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Speaker 3: a unique perspective. I'm reading it from the perspective that

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Speaker 3: I'm a therapist, and so there's a lot in it

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Speaker 3: that I'm like, oh, I can use this. And then

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Speaker 3: I'm reading it from the perspective of a human being

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Speaker 3: who's thinking that same thing. And I'm reading it from

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Speaker 3: the perspective of I want to learn how to write stories,

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Speaker 3: not just like maybe my own story, but other stories

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Speaker 3: that are just have been in my head, Like I

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Speaker 3: have a note on my phone that's just like ideas,

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Speaker 3: and like I haven't sat down to ever making but

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Speaker 3: these things pop up all the time, and then I

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Speaker 3: am just like, well, I don't even know how I

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Speaker 3: would start doing that. So the act of writing a

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Speaker 3: book is fascinating to me. Every time I read a book,

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Speaker 3: whether it's a like novel, fiction novel, or if it's

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Speaker 3: something for work or whatever, one.

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Speaker 1: Of the thoughts I have is like, how do they

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Speaker 1: do this?

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Speaker 3: Like I don't get how this all flows and how

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Speaker 3: did they pick what things to add in? Like gosh,

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Speaker 3: would I know how to write that story? Maybe that

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Speaker 3: example story that's like in the book. There's so many

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Speaker 3: questions I have, and a lot of it I think

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Speaker 3: plays into like my insecurity of I don't know how

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Speaker 3: to do this, and so it becomes overwhelming, so I don't.

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Speaker 3: So that's one of the reasons I love this book

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Speaker 3: because I'm like, wait, I can do this. This makes sense,

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Speaker 3: like the little pieces, so I'm getting ahead of myself.

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Speaker 3: I actually wanted to start with for people who hadn't

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Speaker 3: listened to the first episode and don't know you can

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Speaker 3: you give us a background, like how did you become

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Speaker 3: a writer?

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Speaker 2: Well, okay, so write your story. And the work that

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Speaker 2: I'm doing today was that I stumbled upon this accidentally.

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Speaker 2: But the part of it that I knew I wanted

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Speaker 2: to do is I knew I wanted to be an

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Speaker 2: author from a very young age. And I know not

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Speaker 2: everybody has that experience. A lot of people that I know,

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Speaker 2: people who are very close to me, are like, I

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Speaker 2: had no idea what I wanted to do with my

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Speaker 2: life and I just kind of ended up here, which

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Speaker 2: I do resonate with that to some extent. But one

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Speaker 2: thing that I knew from a really young age is

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be a writer and I wanted to

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Speaker 2: write books. So I can remember being as young as

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Speaker 2: like fourth grade somewhere in there and being like, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be an author. I grew up, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to be on a New York Times bestseller. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to write books. Whatever. So that piece of

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Speaker 2: my career went through some bumps, and you know, I

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Speaker 2: could tell that whole story. But I published my first

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Speaker 2: book in twenty thirteen. After I published that book, I realized, Okay,

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Speaker 2: selling a twenty dollars product where I am a ten

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Speaker 2: percent owner of the product because I partnered with the publisher,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to have to sell a lot of books

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Speaker 2: if I want to make a living doing this. Like

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Speaker 2: if I'm going to want to make a living wage

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Speaker 2: selling books where I make less than a dollar a book,

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Speaker 2: that means you have to lose a lot of copies

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Speaker 2: of the book. So it was like, I need another

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Speaker 2: backup plan, Like I need another way to generate revenue.

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Speaker 2: So I decided that I would use my skill set

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Speaker 2: and this experience that I had just had publishing a book,

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Speaker 2: and I would coach other people to do what I

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Speaker 2: had done. So I started working with aspiring authors, and

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Speaker 2: I built a curriculum. I taught an online course for

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Speaker 2: a long time, working with people to help them put

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Speaker 2: together their books. And a lot of those people were

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Speaker 2: writing memoirs, so they were telling personal stories. But even

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Speaker 2: the people who were writing more content driven books, more

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Speaker 2: at didactic you know, how to leadership books or business

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Speaker 2: books or whatever, were also telling stories from their life.

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Speaker 2: And so I realized a lot of what I was

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Speaker 2: doing is teaching people how to tell their personal stories.

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Speaker 2: And one of the things that I noticed while I

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Speaker 2: was helping people tell their personal stories is that people

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Speaker 2: were having this insanely transformational experience while they were writing

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Speaker 2: their books. So I would say sixty percent, eight and

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Speaker 2: eighty percent of the people who came to me saying

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Speaker 2: I want to write a book, I want to get

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Speaker 2: a publishing deal, I want an agent, I want to

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Speaker 2: publish in the world didn't even finish their books, which

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Speaker 2: might sound really discouraging. But what I noticed, more than

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Speaker 2: the fact that not ever be finished their books, is

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Speaker 2: that everybody who engaged in this process had a transformational experience.

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Speaker 2: So everyone who looked at their life through the lens

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Speaker 2: of storytelling started to see their life in a different way,

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Speaker 2: and they would have these epiphanies like you know, one

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Speaker 2: client who I worked with, he was convinced he wanted

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Speaker 2: to write this book. He wanted to be in a

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Speaker 2: New York Times bestseller. This book was his plan to

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Speaker 2: be like the breakout of his business. He was running

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Speaker 2: a marketing agency at the time, and so we sat

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Speaker 2: down together, we mapped out the entire book. He sat

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Speaker 2: down to start writing the book, and he realized, I'm

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Speaker 2: on the wrong path in my life. I don't even

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Speaker 2: want to be in marketing. I don't even like this.

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Speaker 2: I never wanted to do this. I did this just

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Speaker 2: to make money. I need to make a massive change.

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Speaker 2: And he literally shut down his company and moved on

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Speaker 2: to something new. And so he obviously didn't finish the book,

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Speaker 2: didn't ever published a book, but the experience of writing

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Speaker 2: his story shifted into more alignment to what he actually

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Speaker 2: wanted and needed in his life. And when I'm telling

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Speaker 2: you that, I watched that happen over and over and

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Speaker 2: over again, I was like, something is up here, Like

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Speaker 2: I'm like, am I just biased? Because this is what

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Speaker 2: I do for work. So I'm witnessing it happening while

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Speaker 2: word over again, or is there something really really real

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Speaker 2: about the writing process that transforms us? So I started

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Speaker 2: doing some digging, and this was like twenty nineteen, twenty twenty,

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Speaker 2: right when I first came on the podcast, that I

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Speaker 2: had found this entire body of research that shows how

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Speaker 2: powerful writing can be to create meaningful change in our lives.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that's happening when you sit down

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Speaker 2: to the page to write is you're activating and accessing

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Speaker 2: a different part of your brain than most of us

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Speaker 2: access on a daily basis, And so it gives you

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Speaker 2: this opportunity to be much more honest with yourself than

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Speaker 2: you would be otherwise. And it's one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: why I think writing pairs with therapy so perfectly, because

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Speaker 2: as a therapist, how amazing is if a client had

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Speaker 2: a tool where they can actually tell you more of

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Speaker 2: the truth then they would have had access to if

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Speaker 2: they didn't write about their life. So, like, how cool

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Speaker 2: would it be for you as a therapists between your

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Speaker 2: sessions with someone they went home and were like journaling

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Speaker 2: about what was going on with them, And they came

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Speaker 2: back and they're like Kah. I realized that when I

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Speaker 2: said I wanted to be you know this, I wanted

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Speaker 2: to make this marketing business ten million dollars a year,

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Speaker 2: I realized, actually, don't even want to be in marketing.

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Speaker 2: I want to do something different. Like you'd be like, wow,

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Speaker 2: we can do so much more now that you've come

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Speaker 2: into contact with that deeper truth. So once I discovered

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Speaker 2: this body of research, I realized, how cool would it

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Speaker 2: be if I took my skill set as a storyteller

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Speaker 2: and this career that I've built for myself to god

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Speaker 2: and share their personal stories and give people access to

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Speaker 2: that who aren't planning to publish, or maybe they are

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Speaker 2: planning to publish, but really give them access to it

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Speaker 2: for the purpose of personal development. And that's what this

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Speaker 2: book is, and it's what my work in my career

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Speaker 2: has shifted into this space now where it's like, yes,

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Speaker 2: I do still help people write books, but it's really

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Speaker 2: not for the purpose of publishing. So many people do publish,

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Speaker 2: but a lot of people who come into the process

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Speaker 2: realize that they get what they need from the writing

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Speaker 2: process and they don't even need to publish in order

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Speaker 2: to feel like that's complete.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, as you were speaking, and you're talking about the

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Speaker 3: workshops and stuff that you do.

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Speaker 1: I remember when this must have been.

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Speaker 3: Like twenty eighteen, but I was volunteering at a conference

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Speaker 3: that my friend was helping run Kellen, and you were

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Speaker 3: speaking at it, and you also were doing like a

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Speaker 3: breakout thing, and I think my volunteer job was to

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Speaker 3: like be the.

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Speaker 1: Point person for Ian Cron or something. I think that's

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Speaker 1: the year it was.

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Speaker 3: So I went to his breakout session obviously, but I

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Speaker 3: remember seeing you there and seeing the breakout session and

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Speaker 3: understanding what it was, and I still have this like

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Speaker 3: visceral feeling of like intimidation. I was like, I want

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Speaker 3: to be in that room, but there was something telling me, well,

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Speaker 3: I don't belong in that room because that room's going

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Speaker 3: to be filled with people who like went to school

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Speaker 3: for this, which.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, what you go to school for journalism? I

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Speaker 3: don't know, but I just was like, the people in

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Speaker 3: there must be really cool. I just remember having that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that thought and now hearing you talk about it, and

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Speaker 3: I think I might even have that same experience now.

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Speaker 3: Like I signed up for a writing an online writing

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Speaker 3: course in like twenty twenty one or something like that,

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Speaker 3: and I never logged onto it like I bought it

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Speaker 3: and I never did which I think I can still

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Speaker 3: do it because I think it was like work at

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Speaker 3: your own pace. But there were something that was like,

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Speaker 3: you cannot do this. I don't know if that's the

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Speaker 3: right message, but I imagine you have that all of

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Speaker 3: the time where people are like, well, I'm not even

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Speaker 3: going to open this book up because that's not for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're definitely not alone and feeling that way.

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Speaker 2: In fact, one of the things that I like to

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Speaker 2: let people know when they're having that feeling of imposter

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Speaker 2: syndrome around the topic of writing is that people who

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Speaker 2: come to me now where I end in my career.

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Speaker 2: I work with a lot of people who are outlining books,

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Speaker 2: who have already published books. So I work with people

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Speaker 2: who are like Olympians, They're like CEOs of massive organizations.

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Speaker 2: They're recognizable household names. They've got a book contract, they

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Speaker 2: need to outline a book, they need someone to help

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Speaker 2: them conceptualize it. So I sit down with them to

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Speaker 2: help them write their books, and they will say to

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Speaker 2: me these exact same things. They'll be like, listen, you

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Speaker 2: need to know I'm not really a writer. And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: hold on wait, because I'm like, you have a book

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Speaker 2: that has been on the New York Times list, so

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Speaker 2: explain to me how you're not a writer. And they're like, well,

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Speaker 2: well that was kind of a fluke thing. I'm not

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Speaker 2: supposed to be doing this. This was a total accident

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Speaker 2: that I fell into this. Some sometimes that can feel

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Speaker 2: helpful to know that even the authors that you would

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Speaker 2: point to and be like, they're a real writer, they

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Speaker 2: also feel like I'm not a real writer. And so

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Speaker 2: then the other piece of the puzzle to explain is

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Speaker 2: that that feeling of imposter syndrome as it relates to

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Speaker 2: writing in particular, is not accidental. That this is something

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Speaker 2: that has been passed down through our DNA, through our

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Speaker 2: lineage for generations. That writing and education in general was

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Speaker 2: part of a class system for centuries. That's how it's

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Speaker 2: been that only the elite, only the rich, were educated,

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Speaker 2: Only certain people knew how to read and write, Only

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Speaker 2: certain people were the disseminators of information. I mean, think

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Speaker 2: about even now, how if you picked up a history book,

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Speaker 2: the history book is written by a certain group of people,

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Speaker 2: and most of those people are probably white and male,

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Speaker 2: and so you have to kind of ask yourself, well,

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Speaker 2: why do I feel this feeling like only a certain

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Speaker 2: group of people are allowed to disseminate their ideas into

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Speaker 2: the world. It's because I've been taught and trained to

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Speaker 2: feel that way, and because for centuries, that's how my

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Speaker 2: ancestors saw it. So I don't even think it needs

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Speaker 2: to be this big thing that we fight against. It's

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Speaker 2: just more like part of how we fight against it

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Speaker 2: is just by saying I belong here, I deserve to

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Speaker 2: be here, My experience belongs on the bookshelves. I could

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Speaker 2: publish a book if I wanted to, and even if

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Speaker 2: I don't have the desire to publish a book, that

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Speaker 2: record my thoughts and ideas on paper is a really

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Speaker 2: important part of contributing my voice to the broader conversation.

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Speaker 2: So I'm a believer that the more voices that we

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Speaker 2: have contributed to the conversation, the broader the perspective of

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Speaker 2: the human experience that we have still Like, for example,

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Speaker 2: we just lived through this period of time in history

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Speaker 2: called COVID nineteen, the global pandemic. If you read a

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Speaker 2: history book written by four people or five people or whatever,

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Speaker 2: that told you about the global pandemic, or if you

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Speaker 2: read a collection of essays that was a thousand essays

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Speaker 2: on what it was like to be alive and a

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Speaker 2: human being in the world during the global pandemic. Which

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Speaker 2: one of those would give you a clearer perspective of

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Speaker 2: what it was like to be alive. The second one,

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Speaker 2: I would give you a much clearer perspective. So you

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Speaker 2: can get information when only a small group of people

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Speaker 2: are disseminating it, but you can't really get the full

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Speaker 2: breadth of the human experience.

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Speaker 1: That is helpful to hear.

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Speaker 3: And what came up for me and I was when

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Speaker 3: you first started talking is which was so funny because

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Speaker 3: then you ended up saying what I was thinking. I

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Speaker 3: have this image of what a writer is, and it's like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know why this is what it is. It's

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Speaker 3: like this old man with the pipe writing in his

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Speaker 3: library and like using really big words that I don't understand.

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Speaker 3: I think that speaks exactly what you're saying, Like that's

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Speaker 3: the image I have in my head, and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 3: I can't be farther from that, and not only does

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Speaker 3: that speak to me not wanting to do that as

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Speaker 3: a career because that was never I never thought that

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Speaker 3: that was an option, Like that was not something that

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Speaker 3: that was an option. But the other part is allowing

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Speaker 3: myself to be a writer in general, like because I

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Speaker 3: am not that elite status and because I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to do it as a career and write these very

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Speaker 3: thought provoking but also like confusing so do we even

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Speaker 3: really know what we're reading pieces? Then ei, there's no

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Speaker 3: place for me. And at the same time, if that's

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Speaker 3: what I think, then I'm going to live into that

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Speaker 3: and I'm going to pass that down. And I think

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Speaker 3: I've told this a million times on this podcast, so

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Speaker 3: I think people were probably overhearing it, but I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: say it anyway. I was listening to an episode this

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Speaker 3: was Fun Therapy.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever listen to that? Like back in the day.

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Speaker 3: It was Mike Foster years ago, and he had John

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Speaker 3: Acuff I think was John Acuff that was on with him,

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Speaker 3: and they were actually talking like how do you introduce yourself?

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Speaker 1: And I think that.

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Speaker 3: What John said is I am a speaker and a writer.

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Speaker 3: But I like when people are introduce me as a

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Speaker 3: writer because it's like more like interesting and like mysterious

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Speaker 3: and all that. But they were going back and forth

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Speaker 3: talking about that, and one of them asked the other,

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Speaker 3: I don't remember who it was, if you could do

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Speaker 3: anything and you only had to be sixty percent good

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Speaker 3: at it, what would you do? And I actually have

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Speaker 3: no idea what they said, but I remember that because

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my gosh, if the expectation was I

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Speaker 3: only had to be sixty percent good at this, then

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Speaker 3: I would do a million things.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, as kids, we did that.

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Speaker 3: Like as kids, I played ever sport there was. I

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Speaker 3: signed up for every activity. I took an acting class,

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Speaker 3: I was in ballet, I was doing swimming. I still

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Speaker 3: don't know how to dive, and I was on the

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Speaker 3: swim team. Like I did everything. But I would never

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Speaker 3: do that now, like I have to really challenge myself.

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Speaker 3: But what's interesting is so I started playing soccer as

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Speaker 3: a kid, So I kept playing and I got better

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Speaker 3: and I was never the best soccer player, but I

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Speaker 3: could hold my own and I felt comfortable out there

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Speaker 3: doing that, of course because I started it. And then

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Speaker 3: I didn't like walk on the soccer field at four

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Speaker 3: years old, and like knew how to dribble, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And that makes me think it's I laugh when I

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Speaker 1: think about it, because.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, that would be writing like I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to like write the most eloquent or digestible or whatever

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Speaker 3: it is story the first time I pick up a pen.

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Speaker 3: But there's still this idea that I would need to.

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Speaker 2: You know, what's interesting? Two things come up to say.

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Speaker 2: Number one is I read a book called The Confidence

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Speaker 2: Code by Kaddy k and Clare Shipman. And I know

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Speaker 2: it's not always helpful to use like gender male female

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Speaker 2: type stuff, but this book was particularly in specifically about

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Speaker 2: women and why women don't feel as confident as men,

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Speaker 2: And because we're both women, I'll share this which they said.

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Speaker 2: The statistics show that a man, if he feels sixty

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Speaker 2: percent competent to apply for a job, will apply for

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Speaker 2: a job, and a woman, if she feels ninety five

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Speaker 2: percent competent, will not apply because she doesn't feel one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent competent. A man, if he feels sixty percent

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Speaker 2: competent to apply for a job, will apply for a job,

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Speaker 2: and a woman, if she feels ninety five percent competent,

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Speaker 2: will not apply because she doesn't feel one hundred percent competent.

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Speaker 2: So I just think It's interesting to point that out,

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Speaker 2: since you and I are both women, that women have

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Speaker 2: even more of a tendency to cap themselves out for

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Speaker 2: something that they don't feel qualified to do. And the

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Speaker 2: other thing I wanted to share too, is that I've

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Speaker 2: been taking improv classes.

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Speaker 3: I thought of you as I was saying that, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like I jumped into improv and I only meant to

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Speaker 3: take a level one class.

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Speaker 2: It was just like, I want to do this as

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Speaker 2: a way to challenge myself, step out of my comfort zone,

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Speaker 2: play some silly games, meet some interesting people, and then

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Speaker 2: I'm going to move on. But I ended up getting

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Speaker 2: kind of like sucked into it, Like I was having

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Speaker 2: so much fun. The other people that I was playing

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Speaker 2: with were like, come on, do level two with us,

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Speaker 2: do level three with us. And there came a point

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Speaker 2: like around level three or level four, there was six

437
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,679
Speaker 2: levels total where I was just like I was starting

438
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 2: to feel like I'm not the strongest player in the class,

439
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 2: so it's time for me to get off the train.

440
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 2: Like I felt like I was holding everyone back because

441
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 2: there were certain people in the class who were just

442
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 2: genuinely and I'm not being self deprecating, just genuinely more

443
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 2: talented at this art form than I was. And so

444
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 2: I kept having this conversation where I was like, oh, gosh,

445
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,160
Speaker 2: I should probably back off so that these people can

446
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 2: really shine and they can really you know, have their

447
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,160
Speaker 2: moment in the sun or whatever. And what I realized

448
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 2: is that, like, it's okay for me to do this,

449
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 2: not because I'm the best at it, but because it's

450
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 2: for my personal growth, Like I'm allowed to be here too.

451
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 2: I don't have to be the best. It's like who

452
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 2: said I had to be the best at this? Like

453
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 2: who said this had to even be about me performing

454
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 2: or other people being excited about my performance? Like this

455
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 2: can literally just be for me. And I had that

456
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,160
Speaker 2: epiphany and I was like, oh, that's for writers too,

457
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,239
Speaker 2: Like just let this be for you, Like why does

458
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 2: it have to be Why do you have to be

459
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 2: the best. Why do you have to write a book

460
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 2: that sells more copies than this other person who wrote

461
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 2: a book, Like why does it have to be better

462
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 2: than someone else's book? It can just be for you

463
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,360
Speaker 2: and for your own personal growth and for your edification.

464
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 2: That's enough, isn't it.

465
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 3: Well I want to say yes, but I think I'm

466
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 3: having this feeling of like, oh yeah, and I don't

467
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 3: know where it comes from from a grand scheme. I

468
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 3: can like identify some things that growing up playing sports

469
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 3: and stuff, it's like, well, the best players make the team,

470
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 3: and also the best players get to start. So if

471
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 3: you're not good at something, then you one don't get

472
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 3: to do it, but two like you shouldn't maybe try.

473
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 3: And I think that that's an issue we have with

474
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 3: a lot of avenues in our life, where we take

475
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 3: this framework from one thing and we apply it to

476
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 3: all things, Like it makes sense that, like, the best

477
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,639
Speaker 3: players made the soccer team, but why does that have

478
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 3: to apply to.

479
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: Who gets to go to the improv class?

480
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:26,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

481
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 1: Why does that apply to.

482
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 3: What I do in my free time? I think we

483
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 3: take on this messaging that to participate or to engage,

484
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 3: we pick the things we're good at. But what if

485
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 3: the thing i'm good at I hate? And yeah, what

486
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 3: if the thing I'm bad at I really like.

487
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,120
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? You know what movie comes to mind,

488
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 2: which is maybe I haven't seen in decades, so I

489
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: don't know if I'll do a good job recapping it.

490
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 2: But the movie Rudy, I've never seen just such an

491
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 2: it you've never seen it. Okay, Well, it's about a

492
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: football player who really wants to play it, Notre Dame,

493
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: and a movie doesn't even end with him being a

494
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: starter or he gets he makes the team and he says,

495
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 2: you know, rides the bench for season after season, I think,

496
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 2: and then by the end of the movie he gets

497
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 2: to play like one final play of the game, which

498
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 2: is like his big climactic scene. And it's a very

499
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 2: inspiring movie. And I think the reason why it's so

500
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 2: inspiring he doesn't become the best player. He doesn't become

501
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 2: a starter. He doesn't score the goal, you know, like

502
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 2: the winning touchdown goal like that talking about sports goal,

503
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, whatever, he doesn't the score the Yes,

504
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,479
Speaker 2: he doesn't score the winning touchdown. But we're inspired by

505
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 2: Rudy because he is unequivocal about going after what brings

506
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 2: him joy. And that's why it's so inspiring. And I

507
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 2: think that a lot of us could really benefit from

508
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: having that perspective when it comes to literally anything in

509
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 2: our life, like chase after the things that bring you joy.

510
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 2: Do it for you because it expands you, it grows you,

511
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 2: It bumps you up against your perceived limitation. And let

512
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: that just be enough and don't need to be the

513
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 2: best person at that particular thing.

514
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 3: It's giving me this idea of changing that question that

515
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 3: I keep in my head of what would you do

516
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 3: if you're sixty percent good? What would you do if

517
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 3: it was just about having fun? Yeah, the joy? Like

518
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 3: what would you do just about the joy? Because even

519
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 3: sixty percent good, it's like, well, that's not zero percent good?

520
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 3: Like what if I So that's a really good question,

521
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 3: like what would I be doing if it was just

522
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 3: about me enjoying myself? And you know what's coming up

523
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 3: is this is becoming a whole therapy session. But I'm

524
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 3: having this thought of kickball, which I actually don't want

525
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 3: to play, So maybe that's why I'm having this feedback

526
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 3: in my brain. But if I was to join a

527
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 3: kickball team to have fun, I'm still worried about what

528
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 3: other people. Yeah, I'm like, are they going to be like, oh,

529
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 3: why is that girl on my team? Maybe how you

530
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 3: felt about the improv.

531
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 2: A thousand percent. When we get in the trap of

532
00:24:54,680 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 2: performing for the feedback of others, we sacrifice the authenticity

533
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 2: of self. And honestly, again, the reason why Rudy is

534
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 2: so inspiring is because the people that we are most

535
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 2: interested in, the ones we gravitate towards the most, The

536
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: people we love the most in the world and admire

537
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 2: the most, are the ones who are their most authentic cells.

538
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 2: It doesn't always mean that you're bad or good at something.

539
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 2: Like the people who drive us crazy, who we do

540
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 2: feel like, Oh God, get out of the way so

541
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 2: someone else can do it, are the people who are

542
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 2: trying to get positive feedback. It's people who are acting

543
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 2: out of their ego, out of their small self, and

544
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 2: those people are just like, oh God, step down, dude,

545
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: give someone else a chance, you know, but we have

546
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 2: we have like an internal positive response to someone who's

547
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: just doing something for the joy of doing it. Think

548
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: about kids, Yeah, like you mentioned, like, kids just do this,

549
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: No one needs to teach them how to do it,

550
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 2: like my daughter. I was telling my husband the other day,

551
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 2: my daughter's three and a half. She in her lifetime

552
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 2: has not I don't know where she's gotten this because

553
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: she's not really seen me be like not excited about clothes,

554
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: like I feel like I had two babies back to back,

555
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 2: been like mostly in workout and also the pandemic, like

556
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 2: I've been like in workout gear and no makeup for

557
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 2: the last three years of my life. So I don't

558
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: think she's gotten this from me, but it gives her

559
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: so excited to think about, like putting together an outfit.

560
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: She wanted to get her ears pierced. She she'll ask Matt, like,

561
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 2: can you buy me a necklace? Can I have a

562
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: neckl Can I have a necklace with a star on it?

563
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: Can I have earrings with rainbows? Like? And then she

564
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 2: puts the other these outfits and she's she has purses,

565
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: and she puts purses with the outfit, but like to

566
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 2: watch the joy that she has, Like she'll put on

567
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 2: an outfit that you're just like, that's a little whacking

568
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: out there, but like you're just like two different patterns

569
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: the top of the bottoms, but like, hey, it brings

570
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 2: you joy, and so it brings me joy because it

571
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: brings your joy. That kind of joy is totally contagious,

572
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: and yeah, I think I have adults weaken stand to

573
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: have more of that in our lives.

574
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 3: I wrote this down as something to bring up, which

575
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 3: is funny because before we started recording, I was like,

576
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 3: I have four things.

577
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: I want to talk about.

578
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 3: We've kind of talked about a bunch of them just

579
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 3: in this but there's one quote that I well, there's

580
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 3: a bunch of quotes that I wrote down, but one

581
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 3: of them that I wrote that I sat after I

582
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 3: read this, I like sat.

583
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: This book down. I was like trying to think of

584
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: what this is for me.

585
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 3: But you said the stories that we're most afraid to

586
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 3: tell are usually the ones that are the most relatable,

587
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 3: which to me is so interesting based especially off of

588
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 3: what you just said that the people that were most

589
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,959
Speaker 3: drawn to also are like the people that I'm like, oh,

590
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 3: I could never like, you know, like I could never

591
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 3: wear that list matched top or whatever it is, because

592
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: what are people going to think about me when it's like.

593
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: Well, wait, ye what do I think?

594
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: I think that's cool? Though. That is just mind blowing

595
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: to me.

596
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 2: This is what I've found after working with thousands of

597
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: people with the helpful outline their stories. There's always a

598
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: buried story under the story that people have decided and

599
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 2: it's not that interesting or that they're too scared to

600
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 2: share that really, in truth, is the most interesting part

601
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: of their story. So people will come and they'll be like,

602
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 2: I'm want to tell this story, like here's an example

603
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: that I get in the book. There's a guy who

604
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 2: came to one of our write your Story workshops and

605
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 2: he was like, I'm want to tell the story about

606
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: how I went out in the woods for three months

607
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: and I basically lived off of like lived in the

608
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: wild for three months. Like he like hunted and built

609
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: fires and like built his own little shanty and had

610
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 2: this amazing, cool, transformative experience living in the woods for

611
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: three months, which is an interesting story. It's not that

612
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 2: it's not interesting. But as I started talking to him,

613
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 2: I thought to ask, what made you want to do that?

614
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 2: He was like, you know, this part of the story

615
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 2: is an important kind of deal. But then told me

616
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 2: that his younger sister I'd been hit and killed by

617
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 2: a drunk driver, and he said going to the woods

618
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 2: was the only way that I avoided going to jail,

619
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: meaning like he had so much rage and anger toward

620
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: this person who had killed his sister that he needed

621
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: to find a way to discharge some of that energy.

622
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 2: And so he went into the woods and came out

623
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: a different person. And I just was like, talk about

624
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 2: burying the lead, like that is like the most vulnerable interesting.

625
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: It actually makes the Woods story much more interesting than

626
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: it would have been without that part of the story, right,

627
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: because there's like such a humanity in it, like every

628
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,479
Speaker 2: single one of us can understand how we would feel

629
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 2: in that given moment. And so that's a great example

630
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: of how a lot of times we're just like, oh,

631
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: this is not an important part of the story, I'll

632
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: just brush this part of the rug, and then when

633
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: you pull it out from under the rug, you're just like, wait,

634
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: hold on, that needs to be in the book, Like

635
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 2: that's one hundred percent a very important part story.

636
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think is? And I think it

637
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: could be different.

638
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 3: But the reason that we're so easily ready to push

639
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 3: those parts away, Like I guess I'm sitting here being like,

640
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 3: how could that person not think that was important?

641
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, on the circus of it, it's

642
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: just that it feels vulnerable to tell those kinds of stories,

643
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: because it really shows a vulnerable side of yourself, you know.

644
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: But I think the deeper answer that I would give

645
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: to that is that we are all terrified of our

646
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: own power. We're terrified of our own humanity, our own vulnerability.

647
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: Our vulnerability is our greatest power, and we're all so

648
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 2: terrified to show that part because we feel like it

649
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: opens up us to an attack or what opens us

650
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 2: to more pain, when actually that opening is like the

651
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: opening to everything. It's opening to joy, it's opening to connection.

652
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: And so I think, yeah, I think we're scared of

653
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: our own power.

654
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: I can agree with that.

655
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 3: Okay, Now, the other thing that I wanted to ask

656
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 3: you about, because you've kind of said some of this

657
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 3: with what we've been talking about and how the writing

658
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 3: is so helpful as a tool for us, not just

659
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: if we're wanting to actually write a book book, but

660
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 3: write our own stories. So I want you to speak

661
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 3: to the part where you talk about why meaning making

662
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 3: so important, because sometimes I think I find myself and

663
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,479
Speaker 3: maybe it's because I am in an environment where I

664
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: have a lot of therapist and self help, just a

665
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 3: lot of opinions about how to heal and all of that.

666
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 3: I think something that i've been not that i've been

667
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 3: like resistant to it. I've just been I don't know

668
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,239
Speaker 3: about which maybe is resistance. Is this idea that I

669
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 3: feel like keeps coming up more lately that we don't

670
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 3: need to make meaning And I think that that can

671
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 3: be true, which is why, Yes, I want you to

672
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 3: speak on this, but I find meaning very important, and

673
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 3: so can you talk about what you say in the

674
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 3: book about that of like the people that are like, well, like.

675
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: What if there is no meaning to this?

676
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean there is some truth to that that

677
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 2: we don't need to make meaning of our lives. The

678
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 2: meeting exists whether you see it there or not, and

679
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: so you don't need to go on some like bank

680
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: quest to make meaning out of your life in order

681
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: for it to have meaning. I do think that there's

682
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 2: truth to that on that level. But when I talk

683
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 2: about in the book is that your brain is making

684
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: meaning out of your story, whether you know it's doing

685
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 2: that or not. Your brain is a meaning making machine,

686
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: and so you're constantly attaching meaning to your story. Most

687
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: of us are doing that unconsciously, and what writing teaches

688
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 2: us to do is to do it consciously. And I

689
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: actually feel like there's a level to which you're unconscious

690
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: about the meaning of your story. Then you bring it

691
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 2: into your conscious awareness, and then there's like an evolution

692
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: even beyond that where like you are able to like

693
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: almost receive it instead of needing to make it up.

694
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly how to describe that. But the

695
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: effort to write your story is about consciously making meaning

696
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 2: of your story. So it's about like bringing the unconscious

697
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: into the conscious, and so, like, you know, one example

698
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 2: I give a story is maybe you get cut off

699
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 2: in traffic or something. Your brain has automatically attached a

700
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: meaning to that story, and probably if you're doing this unconsciously,

701
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: that meaning has been there for a very very very

702
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: long time and you're just attaching it to this meeting.

703
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: So you're just like manner jerks whatever. That's a meaning

704
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 2: that has been around for a long time, and you're

705
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: attaching it to the story, and your life is going

706
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 2: to continue to give you all kinds of affirmation of

707
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 2: that belief or that meaning that's very deep in your psyche.

708
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: So when you sit down to write your story and

709
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 2: you slow the whole process down and you share what

710
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 2: happened in writing, it forces you to see the meaning

711
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: that you have already made, and it gives you an

712
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: opportunity to upgrade that meaning. So maybe you see that

713
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 2: meaning you've been you're just like, wow, I didn't even

714
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: know that I felt so negatively about men or whatever.

715
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: And then you go like, okay, well, what meaning would

716
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 2: I like to make up this story? And you can

717
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: honestly practice and try on different meanings. You can be like, well,

718
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: what does it feel like in my body if the

719
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: meaning I make of this story is oh, he must

720
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: have been in a rush, Or what does it feel

721
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: like in my body if the meaning I make of

722
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: this story is oh, I guess I wasn't paying close

723
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: enough attention and I was in his way or something

724
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: like that. So you can practice with different meanings and

725
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 2: try them on and see, like which one feels better.

726
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 2: But it particularly as it relates to the really poignant

727
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: experiences in our lives, like the really charged ones the

728
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: loss of a loved one, the loss of a parent,

729
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 2: the abandonment of a parent, a divorce, something like that

730
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: that's really really charged for you. You'll see as you sit

731
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: down to write your story that you've made up a

732
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 2: lot of meaning about the story. Your brain did that

733
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 2: without you even knowing it, And the process of actively

734
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: and consciously rewriting the meaning can be very, very healing,

735
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: and it can actually shift your entire perspective of having

736
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 2: to even experience the same set of circumstances. So not

737
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: to keep talking forever about one just An example of

738
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 2: this is I went through a divorce several years ago.

739
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: It's been almost a decade now. It was a very

740
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 2: dark time in my life, and I sat down to

741
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 2: write about what was happening to me, not because I

742
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: thought I would publish it, but because I didn't know

743
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 2: what else to do. And I just was trying to

744
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 2: make sense of everything that was going on. And I

745
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 2: started to notice that a lot of the meaning I

746
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: was making up a story was pretty negative. It was

747
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 2: pretty like there was a lot of resentment coming up,

748
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: a lot of anger, a lot of blaming and making

749
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: him the problem in my story, making my excess and

750
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 2: the problem in my story. And so when I read

751
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 2: the first drafts of what I had written, I was

752
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: just like, Ooh, I like, I don't know if it's

753
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 2: a meaning I want to stand by, Like it doesn't

754
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: feel good in my body to think about about him

755
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 2: or about our relationship. It doesn't provide me any kind

756
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 2: of resolution. It's not even very interesting of a story.

757
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: Like if I were an outside reader and I were

758
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: reading this, I would be kind of like, ooh, I

759
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 2: don't want to be friends with her. She sounds kind

760
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: of bitter. So I was like what would it look

761
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 2: like for me to reshape this story. And I started

762
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: doing a lot of what I teach in the book,

763
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: which came from my experience helping people outline of stories.

764
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: So I started I put myself the position of the

765
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: hero in the book, and I was like, what would

766
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 2: a sympathetic hero do in this situation. She'd build file

767
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: for divorce, like she would get out of this abusive situation.

768
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: She would take charge of her own destiny. She would

769
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 2: go make her own money, she would not need to

770
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: rely on a man to feel good about herself or

771
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 2: to you know, create a life that she really loved.

772
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: And started rewriting the story that way and doing some

773
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: of the things that I was writing about. And what

774
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: I noticed is that, like my experience of the story

775
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 2: changed dramatically. So I went from feeling like, how could

776
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 2: this happen to me? This is the worst thing ever,

777
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 2: this is the end of my life, this is the

778
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 2: end of my career, or I'm never going to write

779
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 2: it over work again, to being like, this is the

780
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: best thing that's ever happened to me. This is the

781
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 2: first day of the rest of my life. Like I

782
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 2: can do whatever I want, I can make whatever I want,

783
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 2: I could go wherever I want, and that experience shifted

784
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 2: because I changed the meaning. So yes, in some ways,

785
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 2: like the meaning of my story always was what it

786
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 2: was even before I shifted it, but in my physical

787
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: being I shifted when I decided to attach a different

788
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 2: meaning to my experience.

789
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing that part of the story, because

790
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 3: I think that's even more helpful. I live in the

791
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 3: world where which is why I liked so much that

792
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 3: part where you were writing about this whether or not

793
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 3: we sit here, and I'm like, what does this mean?

794
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 3: My actions are influenced by what I'm thinking that I

795
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 3: might not even be saying. And so for you giving

796
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 3: us a tangible way of being in charge of the

797
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 3: creation or even taking ownership for the meaning we've been

798
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 3: holding on to, to me, it moves us from a

799
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 3: place of like where we feel powerless to a place

800
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 3: where or we actually have agency over our lives.

801
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: And I think that's.

802
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 3: Something that that's like the like crux of therapy is

803
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 3: like identifying that we actually we don't control a lot

804
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 3: of things in the world, but we do have agency

805
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 3: over what we do with those things that happen. And

806
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 3: that's what you're describing in your own story. And if

807
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 3: I don't have a way to acknowledge that, then maybe

808
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: I do believe that that the meaning that doesn't have

809
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 3: to be true is true because a bunch of things

810
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 3: could be true at once. Like I think there could

811
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 3: be fifteen different meanings from something, and fifteen different people

812
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: can think that that's right, but it doesn't really matter.

813
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 3: What matters is the one that you're living out of.

814
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 3: And so the fact that we have the ability to

815
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 3: be in charge of what something actually means to us

816
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 3: is one I think the like one of the most

817
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 3: healing parts of the trauma work a lot of people

818
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 3: are doing, because I think in our stories of trauma,

819
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 3: we are stripped of our power, we're stripped of our agency,

820
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 3: we're stripped of our ability to think, to make decisions,

821
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 3: and when we continue to live in that we to

822
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 3: no fault to ourselves end up re traumatizing ourselves. And

823
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,959
Speaker 3: when we are in spaces where we just other people

824
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 3: are telling us, well, this means that again that's doing

825
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 3: the same thing that maybe someone's abuser or whoever has

826
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 3: done to them. So this idea, why it might not

827
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 3: feel revolutionary to some people, it actually is and I

828
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 3: loved the and maybe that's why I'm like being so

829
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 3: slow with this. The way you walk through writing the

830
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: what is the the narrator her, yes, the like sentences

831
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 3: that you try the framework, yes, oh my gosh.

832
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 2: Yeah.

833
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 3: And also you guys need to just like buy this

834
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 3: book so you can read it. But the way you

835
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 3: broke down how to identify the problem, to identify the character,

836
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 3: to identify like what that what the hero, how they

837
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 3: try and form like that, to me, I'm like, wait

838
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 3: a second, Like we could take the same story and

839
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 3: there are a million ways we could do this, yes,

840
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 3: and it all can be right. This is teaching us

841
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 3: we get to decide how that goes.

842
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: Which is such an important point to point out, you know,

843
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,720
Speaker 2: and I even say that I say in the book,

844
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 2: this structure that I'm teaching is based on the hero's journey,

845
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 2: and so it's one narrative structure. And actually, if you

846
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 2: went into other parts of the world, you would find

847
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 2: that there are different types of narrative structures and the

848
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 2: way that those operate. And there's even like a heroine's journey,

849
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,919
Speaker 2: which is a different narrative structure. So there's not one

850
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 2: right way to tell your story. But there's something about

851
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 2: having a framework in place that just gives you, Like

852
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 2: it's like bumper bowling. It's like, if you're going to

853
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 2: learn how to bowl, it's helpful to have the bumpers

854
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: at least for a period of time until you figure

855
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 2: out how to get the ball down the center of

856
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 2: the lane. And then once you figure out to get

857
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: the ball down the center of the lane, then a

858
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 2: lot more options open to you and you can be

859
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 2: even more creative with it. But having that framework in place,

860
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 2: and even what you said at the beginning of the episode,

861
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly how you said it, but the

862
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: the way that I had broken it down made it

863
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 2: feel really achievable for you is exactly what I wanted

864
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 2: to do with this book, Like I wanted to almost

865
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 2: oversimplify it so that literally anybody who wants to write

866
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 2: their story could sit down and do this. While I

867
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 2: was writing this book, I was thinking about my parents,

868
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 2: I was thinking about my grandparents, I was thinking about

869
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: my aunts and uncles. I was thinking about people in

870
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 2: my life when I'm like, I want to know more

871
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 2: about what you went through and what your life was like,

872
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,919
Speaker 2: and what experiences shaped you and what you think about

873
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 2: those experiences so that I can better understand who I

874
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: am and my place in the world. And I'm hoping

875
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 2: that other people feel that way too when they read

876
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 2: the book, that they're like, I want to get this

877
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 2: from my mom. I want to get it for my sister.

878
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 2: I want to know what it was like to be

879
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: my brother growing up in our house, growing up. You know.

880
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 2: I hope people feel that way and want to pass

881
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 2: it on to their friends and relatives.

882
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 3: Again, I'm interested in this because I just am interested

883
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 3: in the act of writing in general. But the reason

884
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 3: I think I was pulled into it like a story

885
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 3: was which this is funny that I'm saying the book

886
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 3: is a story, but like was because I kept thinking,

887
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, this is giving us all the ability

888
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 3: to create something that we have not been taught to

889
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,959
Speaker 3: create because of how our world is set up, because

890
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 3: of the traumas we've experienced. Most of my clients that

891
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 3: have experienced any kind of significant trauma, whether that's little

892
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 3: or big, tea part of that trauma is us not

893
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: having the voice, or the right or the ability to

894
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 3: describe what happened us based on our.

895
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: Experience in our own word.

896
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and so even you saying like I want

897
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 3: to give this to my brother of like what was

898
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 3: it like for him growing up? Like, yeah, I wanted

899
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 3: my brother to write his story of what it was

900
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 3: like to grow up in our house, and that is

901
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 3: allowed to be different than my story of what it

902
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 3: was like.

903
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: And this is.

904
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 3: Literally like a permission slip for people to be able

905
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 3: to do that, because I think just asking somebody and

906
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 3: I bump up with this all the time with myself

907
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 3: as a human being, but also in the work that

908
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 3: I do when I'm trying to help people gain that

909
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 3: it feels like a skill.

910
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: Like a skill.

911
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 3: To be able to tell my own truth, and it

912
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 3: feels sometimes I'm like banging my head against a wall

913
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 3: because I'm like, wait.

914
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 1: How are we still here?

915
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 3: Or like how do I make this easier for this person?

916
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 3: I don't know, And I don't want to do the

917
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 3: work for them because I don't want to create the

918
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 3: meaning or tell them what was true or what was

919
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 3: not true. And so to have a how to guide

920
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 3: to me, the bumpers create more freedom than anything else.

921
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that, And I love that you're

922
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 2: thinking of passing this on to your clients because That's

923
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 2: the other thing I really wanted for this book is

924
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: my dad's a therapist, And so you know, I've watched

925
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 2: my dad for he's been a psychologist for I don't know,

926
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 2: forty years or whatever, and some of his clients he's

927
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 2: seen for like fifteen years or more. So it is like,

928
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: why do certain people get this like the ability to

929
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 2: sort of step into their own agency. And I'm not

930
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: saying that we all have to graduate from therapy, because

931
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 2: I feel like therapy can also be a nice thing

932
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 2: to have as a part of our life for a

933
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 2: very very long time. But it's a fact that I've

934
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 2: watched some people, some of his clients, without knowing any

935
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 2: of the details, but just be like kind of stuck

936
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 2: in the same place for a very very long time.

937
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: And yeah, I've asked myself the question, like what would

938
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 2: it take for them to really see that they get

939
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 2: to CoCreate and participate in the narration of their own story.

940
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 2: They get to the side are they the hero or not?

941
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 2: And what is the hero going to do next? And

942
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: how does the narrator want to tell this story? So

943
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 2: I hope that therapists will find a useful tool to

944
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: to pass on to their clients as a way to

945
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 2: engage with them more deeply and learn more about your

946
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 2: clients in a quicker fashion. Like for me, I mean

947
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: going through my divorce in particular, I was seeing a

948
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 2: therapist once or sometimes twice a week, and I also

949
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 2: went away to on site for a week and did

950
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 2: unintensive at on site, and I was doing EMDR, and

951
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 2: I was going to yoga every day, and I was

952
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: like really doing using all the tools that I had

953
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 2: at my disposal to heal from what had been a

954
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 2: very traumatic experience. What writing did for me is it

955
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 2: was like a connective tissue that brought all of those

956
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 2: things together. So it's like I have all these external

957
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 2: tools that I'm using and writing was a way for

958
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 2: me to sort of find the thread that tied everything together.

959
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 2: It was like a thread that held the entire story together.

960
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 2: Writing was the way that I found that, and that

961
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 2: felt very internal. It felt like that was me finding

962
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: my own agency. So I think writing can be this

963
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 2: great tool that pairs very nicely with therapy that like

964
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 2: expedites your process and helps you get where you're trying

965
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 2: to go even more quickly.

966
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 3: What I like that idea of it kind of like

967
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 3: bringing everything together, because sometimes it does feel like even

968
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 3: if I recommend a client to go do something like

969
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 3: yoga or whatever, it's like, I want all this to

970
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 3: work together. I don't want these to be all compartmentalized.

971
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 3: And so being able to do that is I think

972
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 3: really special. And also I'm glad you said that about

973
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 3: your dad for two reasons.

974
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: Well, I have a question about that.

975
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 3: But two, that's something that I kind of harp on

976
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 3: a lot where I mean, I think there's not a

977
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 3: right or wrong way to do therapy in the sense,

978
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 3: if you want to go for the rest of your life,

979
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 3: go for it. If you want to go for a year,

980
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 3: go for it. But what I think happens in a

981
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 3: lot of relationships. I don't think maliciously, It just sometimes

982
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 3: happens is the dynamic of that client therapist relationship ends

983
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 3: up being just as traumatic as I mean, in a

984
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 3: different way. Maybe it doesn't feel icky, but you become

985
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 3: dependent on the therapist able to either get through things

986
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,479
Speaker 3: or create that meaning it's like we have to ask

987
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 3: for whether it's permission or did I get it right,

988
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 3: or you know what I mean. And so I like

989
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 3: that you brought that up. Now you can go to

990
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 3: therapy for twenty plus years if you'd like to, with

991
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 3: the same therapists, as long as you're doing that, because

992
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 3: I just want to versus like, well, I can't do

993
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 3: this on my own because yeah, therapist, So you do

994
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 3: feel that independence. Okay, this is a good way to

995
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 3: wrap this up, because I was going to ask you

996
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 3: this in the beginning. Then I was like, oh, I'll

997
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 3: ask her in the end. So your dad was as

998
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 3: a psychologist. I don't really have a main question, but like,

999
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 3: what was that like growing up? I always am curious

1000
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 3: of like, what was it going to be like for

1001
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 3: my kids to have a co mom that's a therapist.

1002
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: Well, I think it was different. My experience would be

1003
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 2: different than your kids will have for a big reason,

1004
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 2: and that's because of the way that our culture has

1005
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 2: evolved around therapy in general. Yeah. So I grew up

1006
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 2: in an environment where there was a lot of antagonism

1007
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: towards therapy, and especially growing up in the church, in

1008
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: the Christian Church. Inside of the church, there was a

1009
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: ton of antagonism around therapists, like my dad. I felt

1010
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 2: like my dad always had to be kind of like

1011
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 2: under wraps, like he couldn't tell people that he did

1012
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 2: therapy that wasn't like biblical counseling, you know, because people

1013
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 2: had this stigma about how about giving advice that wasn't

1014
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 2: biblical advice. And so anyway, that was just my unique

1015
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,240
Speaker 2: upbringing that I grew up in that kind of insular

1016
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 2: culture that had this idea about therapy that it was

1017
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 2: like therapy at the time was like really woo woo

1018
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 2: went out there, like people didn't believe that it worked.

1019
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: They weren't sure that it had value. And that was

1020
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 2: in the broader culture and also and jocalism. But so yeah,

1021
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 2: I always felt like it was like a little bit taboo.

1022
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 2: But one thing I really I remember really vividly is

1023
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 2: we would have weekly family meetings. And that was the

1024
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 2: only one of my friends who had this happen where

1025
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 2: we would like all come together as a family and everyone.

1026
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: I don't know that this directly was attributed to my

1027
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 2: dad being a therapist, but I always attributed it to

1028
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 2: him being a therapist where he would like sit us

1029
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 2: down and be like, here's what we're going to talk about.

1030
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 2: I want to hear everyone's perspective, you know, and so

1031
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 2: like I remember having experiences like that where I was like,

1032
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 2: my family is different than the other families around me,

1033
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: Like it felt really different. It just felt like a

1034
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 2: different kind of environment, in some ways good and in

1035
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 2: other ways not as good. You know, like the old

1036
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: trope about therapist saying like, how does that make you feel?

1037
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 2: I can remember my dad asking that like four thousand

1038
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 2: times growing up, you know, tell me how that makes

1039
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: you feel? And so that became like a running joke

1040
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 2: in the household. But yeah, you have to remember that

1041
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 2: this was in a period of time when, like I

1042
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: always think of Britney Spears having essentially a mental break,

1043
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 2: that she was in desperate need of support and mental

1044
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 2: health therapy, counseling, I don't know, whatever else. We all

1045
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,399
Speaker 2: looked at her like, oh God, she's crazy, she's going

1046
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: off for Rocker, When now, if you were to see

1047
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,760
Speaker 2: those same headlines, you would be like, dear God, someone

1048
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: get this woman, like some help. We have a very

1049
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 2: different perspective on that now than we would have had

1050
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 2: back then. So I did feel a little bit like

1051
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 2: I lived in that stigma. But I don't think your

1052
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: kids will have that same stigma.

1053
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 1: They might get annoyed with me asking how will feel?

1054
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, But that's really interesting because when I went

1055
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 3: to grad school to become a therapist, nobody went to

1056
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 3: therapy back then, and that wasn't even that long ago.

1057
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: I went to school in twenty twelve.

1058
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 3: None of my friends were going there ten years yeah,

1059
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 3: And it was kind of like that, that's what you

1060
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 3: want to do. And I didn't even really understand what

1061
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 3: I was about. I thought I was like going to

1062
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 3: learn sentence stems, like this is what you say if

1063
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 3: somebody says this. Like Ever, when my one of my teachers,

1064
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 3: an undergrad who actually encouraged me to go to grad school,

1065
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 3: she was a therapist herself, and I'm like, so, how

1066
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 3: do you memorize all of the things to say to people?

1067
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: Like how do you say all? How do you know

1068
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 1: all the right things to say? And it's literally not like.

1069
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 3: That at all, But that speaks to how different it was,

1070
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 3: and back then it still was. In order for you

1071
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 3: to go to therapy, you have to either have something

1072
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 3: really really really really really.

1073
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: Cuckoo going on.

1074
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 3: Yes, if you are going to therapy, then there's the

1075
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 3: assumption that, like, I'm not allowed to go unless something

1076
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 3: like that happens. And also if I do go everybody's

1077
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 3: gonna be like, yikes, what's going on and keep your

1078
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 3: kind of quiet.

1079
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I felt the same way about I remember

1080
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: thinking about my dad's clients like god, because obviously I

1081
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 2: didn't know any information about them, but I just like sometimes,

1082
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 2: you know, we'd be in the middle of dinner and

1083
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 2: a client would call with an emergency and I would

1084
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 2: be like, oh, man, I wonder what happened to this

1085
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 2: poor person that landed them in arap this office, you know.

1086
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: And now it's just like I feel like this is

1087
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 2: shared a shared idea by the broader culture. But I

1088
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,399
Speaker 2: really do feel like in our broader cultures, like, yeah,

1089
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 2: everyone go to therapy. It's good for you, you know, I

1090
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: mean better health. Like we hear those ads all the

1091
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:17,240
Speaker 2: time on podcasts, and the idea is like for anybody,

1092
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 2: for anyone doing anything, if you just want to access

1093
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 2: your full potential, great idea to go to therapy. Yeah,

1094
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 2: And that idea or concept did not exist when I

1095
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 2: was young, well, and I wonder.

1096
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 3: Part of what I think about is like the even

1097
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 3: the videos, the training videos we watched from like early

1098
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 3: psychologists in school, it was all about a client and

1099
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 3: then like pathologizing them, so like them bringing in their stuff,

1100
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 3: they would just like speak and a therapist would just

1101
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 3: like write down all his thoughts about what he thinks

1102
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 3: is wrong with her versus I think a lot of

1103
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 3: times therapy has turned into people coming in and being like,

1104
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:51,720
Speaker 3: this is what's wrong with me? And I'm like, well, actually,

1105
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 3: this is what I see that's right with you. And

1106
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 3: it's kind of ye shifted a little bit. So I

1107
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 3: think that, yeah, a cool. I mean, we also have

1108
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 3: the people that like just have like no idea, like

1109
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 3: you just like help me. But I think that's a

1110
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 3: cool shift in what's going on. So I'm going to

1111
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 3: continue to pick your brain on that.

1112
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: Does he still practice?

1113
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 2: He does? Wow?

1114
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, all right, well, thank you so much for

1115
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: doing this.

1116
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 2: This was Oh my gosh, thank you for having me.

1117
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? And also where can people

1118
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: buy your book?

1119
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: They can buy the book anywhere you buy books, so

1120
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 2: all the major retailers. You can order the book there.

1121
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 2: And then once you order the book, if you pre

1122
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: order the book, make sure you go to write your

1123
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 2: story dot com slash book because there's eighteen hundred dollars

1124
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 2: worth of pre order bonuses that you get to download,

1125
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: So you download like a pre write your Story journal.

1126
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,399
Speaker 2: You download a video series that teaches you the five

1127
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 2: most important questions to ask if you want to write

1128
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 2: your story. You get to download the first three chappers

1129
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 2: of the book for free and start reading before the

1130
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 2: book is even available. So yeah, go make sure you

1131
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 2: go to Write your Story dot com slash book and

1132
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 2: download all the pre order bonuses.

1133
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: And then what's your Instagram?

1134
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 2: Ali fallon okay a l y at al.

1135
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 1: And we'll tag all that in the show notes. You

1136
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: guys can just click on it. But thank you so much,

1137
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:02,760
Speaker 1: thank you for having me