1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Previously on SNAFU. 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 2: FBI record stolen from the media Pennsylvania office showed that 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 2: one goal of the bureau was to spread that very 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 2: impression among left wing organizations that there was an agent 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 2: behind every male box. 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 3: We just knew that Hoover was beside himself that this 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 3: had happened. He dispatched two hundred agents to flood the 8 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 3: Philadelphia area to find us. 9 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 4: Who decided, We're not getting together as a group ever again. 10 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: We really parted ways. 11 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 5: I knew that the only way that they could find 12 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 5: us was through somebody talk. 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 6: It had been three and a half months since the 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 6: media burglary, and the FBI's hunt for the burglars was 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 6: going nowhere. They'd interviewed hundreds of suspects but failed to 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 6: turn up anything useful. All the fingerprints they could identify 17 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 6: from the crime scene turned out to belong to FBIA Jens. 18 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 6: The g men even hired a quote unquote staple expert 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 6: to examine the packets of stolen documents distributed by the burglars, 20 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,199 Speaker 6: but shockingly, his conclusion that at least five different types 21 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 6: of staples had been used did not lead to a 22 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 6: major breakthrough. The FBI was grasping at Staples. But all 23 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 6: that changed on June twenty fifth, nineteen seventy one, three 24 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 6: and a half months after the Media burglary. On that day, 25 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 6: a contractor named Bob Hardy walked into an FBI office 26 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 6: in Camden, New Jersey, just a stone's throw from Media, Pennsylvania, 27 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 6: and handed the FBI exactly the break they'd been looking for. 28 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 6: Hardy was fair haired, with a square jaw and big ears. 29 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 6: He told the agents that he knew some people who 30 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 6: were planning on burglarising the local draft board office in Camden. 31 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 6: Here's Betty Medzger. 32 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 3: He had just learned that some friends were planning on 33 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 3: raiding a draft board, the Camden draft Board, and that 34 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 3: he liked them and he would like to help protect 35 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 3: him from doing that. But they thought the FBI ought 36 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 3: to know that some people were thinking of this, and. 37 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: Not just any random people. 38 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:26,679 Speaker 6: The leaders of wait for it, the Catholic Peace Movement. Suddenly, 39 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 6: out of nowhere, the Medburg investigation had a promising lead 40 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 6: that they hadn't found an ounce of evidence to prove it. 41 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 6: The FBI had been assuming, literally since day one, that 42 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 6: those dastardly pastors and parishioners in the Catholic Peace Movement 43 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 6: were responsible for the media burglary. 44 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 3: The FBI agents were thrilled, absolutely thrilled, because they just 45 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 3: assumed that people in this group might be related to 46 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 3: the media burglary, and so on the spot, he was 47 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 3: hired as an informer. 48 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 6: Hardy's FBI handlers instructed him to infiltrate the group planning 49 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 6: the draft board raid and to do everything he could 50 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 6: to keep the plot moving forward. Hoover monitored the situation closely, 51 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 6: maybe even obsessively. He poured agents and resources into Camden, 52 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 6: totally convinced that the media burglars were influential members of 53 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 6: the Catholic Peace Movement. This was his chance to catch 54 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 6: the people who'd embarrassed him red handed in the middle 55 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 6: of another break in. Here's the thing, the Catholic Peace 56 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 6: Movement and the citizens commissioned to investigate the FBI were 57 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 6: not the same thing. Bill Davidon, architect of the media 58 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 6: break in, had nothing to do with the Camden draft 59 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 6: Board raid. In fact, he purposely excluded one of the 60 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 6: Camden leaders from his plans in media because he knew 61 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 6: the FBI was keeping close tabs on the guy. Hoover 62 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 6: was taking a big swing based entirely on a hunch. 63 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 6: But even a sumptuous, conniving, paranoid, racist, old broken clock 64 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 6: is right twice a day, because, as it turns out, 65 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 6: two of the media burglars were involved in Camden. And 66 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 6: that's how Keith Forsyth and Bob Williamson fell right into 67 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 6: the clutches of Jade Gar Hoover. I'm met Helms and 68 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 6: this is Snaffo, A show about history's greatest screw ups. 69 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 6: Season two medburg the story of a daring heist and 70 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 6: the colossal FBI snaffoo. It exposed this week a failed raid, 71 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 6: a triple cross, and the trial of the Camden twenty eight. 72 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: In the wake of the media. 73 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 6: Burglary, most of the participants laid John and Bonnie Rains 74 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 6: swore off criminal activity for good. Judy Feinegeld left the 75 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 6: East Coast all together and started a new life out west. 76 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 6: But Bob Williamson wasn't quite ready to stop. Just a 77 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 6: few months after the media action, he got a call 78 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 6: from a friend telling him the usual suspects from the 79 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,799 Speaker 6: Catholic Peace Movement were planning a draft board raid in Camden, 80 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 6: New Jersey. 81 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: Bob wanted in. 82 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 4: I said, Oh, Camden, that's my draft board. That was 83 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 4: the draft board that I was registered in. I had 84 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,679 Speaker 4: gone to high school in Camden. I knew the city 85 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 4: pretty well. There were large numbers of minority people and 86 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 4: they were the ones that were getting drafted and sent 87 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 4: to fight. 88 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 6: Keith, fresh off his heroic pride barring of the media 89 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 6: FBI office door, also got involved. He was determined to 90 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 6: strike another blow against the war machine, even though he 91 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 6: had some reservations about the size of the team. 92 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 5: It just seemed like to me, there was like too 93 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 5: many people, and an awful lot of brand new people 94 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 5: that I wasn't quite sure exactly what they were doing. 95 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 6: Keith had a point. The Camden crew was more than 96 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 6: three times the size of the media group. There's a 97 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 6: direct correlation between the number of people involved in your 98 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 6: criminal plot and the chances of getting busted. In other words, 99 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 6: there's a reason it was Oceans eleven and not Ocean's 100 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 6: thirty eight ten. 101 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: Ou to do it anything? 102 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 7: Do you think we need one more? 103 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: All right, we'll get one more. 104 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 6: But then again, this was a much more complex job 105 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 6: than the media break in. 106 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 4: In order to get up on the fire escape, you 107 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 4: had to pull down this ladder and some kind of 108 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 4: alarm on it, so we cut the wire to that. 109 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 4: There were a couple of tools that we needed to 110 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 4: be able to get into the building. 111 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 6: And maybe that's why the team was so quick to 112 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 6: welcome a friendly neighborhood contractor named Bob Hardy. 113 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 4: And walkie Talkies was one of them. 114 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 6: They were a little expensive, but Hardy you always managed 115 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 6: to come up with the tools the team needed. 116 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 4: And gave us the impression that he'd paid for it 117 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 4: with his own money. 118 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 6: Hardy's handiness and extensive tool collection apparently made up for 119 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 6: his lack of anti war credentials. 120 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 4: Bob Hardy was not a pacifist. There wasn't anything about 121 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 4: him that seemed that way. So in that sense, he 122 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 4: just didn't seem to fit. 123 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 5: Somebody had to go out and make a grocery run, 124 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 5: and somehow or other it ended up being me and 125 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 5: Hardy in his van and he said, well, if there 126 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 5: is a problem with the guard, I got something for you, 127 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 5: and he said it's in the glove compartment. So I 128 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 5: opened the glove compartment and there's a revolver in there, 129 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 5: and I'm like, are you nuts? You think I'm going 130 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 5: to shoot a minimum wage guard to keep from going 131 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 5: to jail for breaking into a draft board. What the 132 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 5: hell is wrong with you? And I really should have 133 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 5: told everybody about that. 134 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 6: What Geek didn't know was that the van radio was 135 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 6: bugged and the entire conversation was being broadcast directly to 136 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 6: the FBI. 137 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: The Feds had. 138 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 6: Been watching the entire operation like hawks. In their minds. 139 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 6: This had to be the same group that embarrassed them 140 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 6: in media just a few months earlier, and this time 141 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 6: the FBI was going to catch them in the act. 142 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 6: As Bob Keith and the others prepared to break into 143 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 6: the federal building, at least eighty g men and dozens 144 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 6: of other federal agents took up positions nearby. Many waited 145 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 6: within the building itself, but others had to hide inside 146 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 6: a local funeral home, spending the evening in eerie silence 147 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 6: with corpses for company in Washington. Hoover was up all 148 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 6: night with Attorney General John Mitchell monitoring the situation in Camden. 149 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 6: Throughout the evening, they exchanged calls with President Nixon, who 150 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 6: was following along closely from his house in Orange County, California. 151 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 6: Forget I'll leaversus Frasier for the President and his highest 152 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 6: law enforcement officials. This was the fight of the century. 153 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 6: After a delay of roughly two hours, they forgot their 154 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 6: ladder and had to go back for it. The burglars 155 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 6: entered the Camden Federal Building, home of the Camden Draft Board. 156 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 6: This was an enormous and well guarded office building, equipped 157 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 6: with an alarm system, and located right in the middle 158 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 6: of the city, precisely the kind of target build Davidon 159 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 6: wouldn't have touched with a ten foot pole. 160 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 4: It was on one of the top floors, eighth floor, 161 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 4: something like that of that Federal building. 162 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 6: Bob and a few others scaled the fire escape and 163 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 6: disconnected the alarm using a glass cutter. They made a 164 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 6: hole in the office window. Now that they were in 165 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 6: the inside crew removed draft files and placed them in sacks, 166 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 6: passing them out the window to Bob. For about two hours, 167 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 6: they quietly went about their work. Then just after four 168 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 6: point thirty in the morning, the Feds swooped in. 169 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 4: And then I hear this guy yelled freeze. I look 170 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 4: around and he's got a gun pointed at me. 171 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 6: Keith was at a secondary location with a few other 172 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 6: members of the team. As soon as he heard a 173 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 6: car pull up outside, it all clicked. Bob Hardy had 174 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 6: sold them out. 175 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 5: I mean, I realized it as soon as I heard 176 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 5: his tire screech. I'm like, I was right. I'm a 177 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 5: dumb ass. I should have said something. They came through 178 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 5: the doors, guns drawn and put us up against the wall. 179 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 5: One of them had a shotgun, so he pushes my 180 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 5: face back up against the wall with the business end 181 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 5: of the shotgun, which really pissed me off. 182 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 4: And the FBI agent. Everybody's in a good mood among 183 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 4: the FBI agents. 184 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 6: And even though the Feds have just gotten one over 185 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 6: on him, Bob can't resist the opportunity to wipe the 186 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 6: smiles off their faces. 187 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 4: And they had a cheer that went like this, am 188 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 4: I allowed to say four letter words, go for it, man, Okay? 189 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: So I said what do we eat? 190 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 4: And they all yelled back eagle me and I said 191 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 4: what do they eat? 192 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: And they said, shit, what do we what do they sure? 193 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 6: What do we? They Soon a young Dan Rather was 194 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 6: announcing the dramatic arrests on CBS. The FBI arrested twenty 195 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 6: persons in Camden, New Jersey, early today and charged them 196 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:41,599 Speaker 6: with trying. 197 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: To steal draft records from the federal building there. 198 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 6: The following morning, Hoover took a victory lap. He and 199 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 6: Attorney General John Mitchell held a triumphant press conference to 200 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 6: announce the arrests. This was a highly unorthodox, one might 201 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 6: even say, petty thing to do, but hey, Hoover was 202 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 6: feling himself. The FBI was about to turn a huge 203 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 6: embarrassment into a massive victory. Hoover even wrote a letter 204 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 6: to Henry Kissinger bragging about his success. He just caught 205 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 6: the media burglars. It was only a matter of time 206 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 6: before one of them confessed. 207 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,079 Speaker 4: I was in that room by myself, with handcuffed to 208 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 4: the desk until about noon the next day. 209 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 5: One of the FBI agents has a copy of I 210 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 5: don't know Time or Newsweek or one of those. 211 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: The cover story. 212 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 5: The headliner on the cover story was America's prisons. How 213 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 5: bad are they really? So the FBI agents going like 214 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 5: this with the cover over like, pretending to read it, 215 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 5: making sure we all see it, you know, I'm like, jeez, 216 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 5: you guys are lame. 217 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 6: Out of the group that came to be known as 218 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 6: the Camden twenty eight Bob and Keith were the only 219 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 6: ones with any knowledge of what happened in media. 220 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 5: I wasn't worried because I knew Bob was going to talk, 221 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 5: and I knew I wasn't going to talk, So you know, 222 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 5: I'm like, okay, send me to jail. 223 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 6: Internal FBI memos, which Betty Medzger later unearthed, show that 224 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 6: Hoover and his cronies were very pleased with the press 225 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 6: coverage of the arrests, but increasingly concerned as the days 226 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 6: wore on and nobody confessed to the media burglary hit 227 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 6: him hard and turn the spotlight of public opinion against them. 228 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: Now. 229 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 6: One of Hoover's deputies recommended in a memo, heavy pressure, 230 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 6: he wrote, will likely serve as the means to obtain 231 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 6: admissions regarding the FBI media burglary. That pressure came when 232 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 6: the charges against the Camden twenty eight were announced seven 233 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 6: felonies per person, meaning the possibility of decades in prison. 234 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 4: Forty seven years would have been the maximum, And that 235 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 4: was true for I think most of us in the 236 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 4: twenty eight were facing forty seven. There were a few 237 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 4: that were facing a little bit less. 238 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 6: Eventually, the camped in twenty eight made bail and convened 239 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 6: to strategize. They knew they had an easy way out 240 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 6: plead guilty and they'd avoid the maximum sentence, maybe even 241 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 6: avoid prison altogether. But as they conferred, they reached a 242 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 6: surprising conclusion. 243 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 4: We wanted to trial. By that time, we had time 244 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 4: to get over the shock of the addressed and I was, 245 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 4: for one, I was ready. I wanted to do it. 246 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 5: I think it started with Father Doyle, and you know, 247 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 5: he said that he thought that part of our witness 248 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 5: against Vietnam was our willingness to suffer for our beliefs, 249 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 5: and he thought it was important. The suffering was important, 250 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 5: just like Jesus's suffering was important to him in religious terms, 251 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 5: and so we should try to put the war on trial. 252 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 5: That was also, you know, everybody agreed with that. That 253 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 5: was unanimous. 254 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 4: It was virtually inevitable that you are, we're going to 255 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 4: get caught. That was not the end of the opportunity 256 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 4: to further the cause of ending the war. That was 257 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 4: another opportunity to persuade people that the war was wrong. 258 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 6: They wanted a jury to hear their case, not just 259 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 6: what they did, but why they did it. 260 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 4: What we wanted was to persuade the jury that the 261 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 4: war was wrong and that it had to be stopped, 262 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 4: and that our action was an attempt to find a 263 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 4: jury who would set us free and end the war. 264 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: The Camden twenty eight was going to put the war 265 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: on trial. 266 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 4: Our idea was what's called jury nullification, where the jury says, yeah, 267 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 4: you broke the law, but we think you did the 268 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 4: right thing. 269 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 6: Jury nullification means a jury can find a defendant not 270 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 6: guilty even if they totally did the crime in question. 271 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 6: The jury can rule that the law deserved to be broken. 272 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 6: In other words, the morality of the situation trumps the legality. 273 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 6: But jury nullification is a long shot, to say the least. 274 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 6: It basically never happens. For this to work, the Camden 275 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 6: twenty eight would need a hard break with traditional courtroom strategy. 276 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 6: They'd have to connect with the jury on a human level. 277 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 6: So contrary to what any reasonable defense attorney would advise, 278 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 6: they decided they'd testify and explain in their own words 279 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 6: why they broke the law. Some of them, Bob included, 280 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 6: even chose to represent themselves in a typical criminal trial. 281 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: This is a terrible idea because well, you're not a lawyer. 282 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 6: But then again, this was not shaping up to be 283 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 6: a typical criminal trial, and before it even began, there 284 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 6: was one more tragic twist. 285 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 8: Slowly began to realize that Bob Hardy, who had been 286 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 8: working with us, had indeed been an informer. 287 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 6: This is father Michael Doyle in an old interview. He 288 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 6: was Bob Hardy's priest and one of the Camden twenty eight. 289 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 8: I had known him for some years and his family, 290 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 8: and I felt had been helpful to him, and indeed 291 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 8: he to me. 292 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 6: Father Doyle, an Irish immigrant, had recently guided Hardy through 293 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 6: his conversion to Catholicism. After that, he'd been the one 294 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 6: to invite Hardy into the group planning the Camden raid. 295 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 8: So realizing that he had been the informer all along 296 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 8: was hard for me, and I felt angry and upset 297 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 8: and basically betrayed. 298 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 6: A few weeks after the arrests, Bob Hardy was inside 299 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 6: his house talking to a reporter. He told his son 300 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 6: Billy to go play outside. 301 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 8: Billy, who was nine years old, went out and, having 302 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 8: nothing better to do, climbed a tree. But he fell, 303 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 8: and he fell on a fence and tragically was impaled 304 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 8: on the fence and he was a wonderful boy and 305 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 8: I knew him very well. I remember particularly going down 306 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 8: to see him in Cooper Hospital and sitting in the 307 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 8: waiting room was Bob Hardie and Michael Rymer, FBI agent 308 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 8: who was the Hardy contact for the CAMT in twenty 309 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 8: eight uh, and I remember the three of us sitting 310 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 8: on a couch. Somehow my mind was uh twisting in 311 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 8: some kind of unreality. There was only one thing that 312 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 8: was real, and that was a child was dying. And 313 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 8: I remember driving out of that hospital that day and 314 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 8: and banging on my no the h in front of 315 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 8: my car, and just time on to feel the the 316 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 8: feel of of something that was there and real. And 317 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 8: he died on the third of October nineteen seventy one. 318 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 6: Father Doyle conducted the funeral mass at his church in Camden. 319 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 8: It was an extraordinary funeral in the sense that the 320 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 8: family was there, and the Camden twenty eight was there, 321 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 8: and some of its more active supporters were there, all 322 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 8: of them supporting Bob Hardy and sympathizing with the family 323 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 8: and their tragedy. 324 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:45,239 Speaker 6: So even facing decades in prison from Hardy's betrayal, the 325 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 6: Camden twenty eight showed up anyway to support Hardy in 326 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 6: his darkest hour. Meanwhile, just across the aisle sat a 327 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 6: crowd of clean cut federal agents, some of whom Hardy 328 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 6: had never even seen before. 329 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 8: It would be hard to believe that a host of 330 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 8: FBI agents who really didn't know Bob Hardy were there 331 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 8: out of genuine human sympathy. He just had the feeling 332 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 8: they were there to make sure of their man that 333 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 8: he held up for their agenda, which was to convict 334 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 8: the Canon twenty eight for j Edgar Hoover. 335 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 6: In the aftermath of the funeral, Hardy talked to his 336 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,479 Speaker 6: wife about the upcoming trial. 337 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 4: I think he just had an attack of conscience and 338 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 4: he I think was touched by Michael's christian like behavior. 339 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,479 Speaker 6: Hardy decided he had to tell the truth, the whole truth, 340 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 6: that he hadn't just been an informant, but also a 341 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 6: provocateur helping the FBI make the break in happen. Hardy 342 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 6: was still going to testify, but not as a witness 343 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 6: for the prosecution. He was going to testify as a 344 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 6: witness for the Camden twenty eight. On February fifth, nineteen 345 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 6: seventy three, the trial of the Camden twenty eight began, 346 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 6: and the same federal building where they'd been arrested. Betty Medsger, 347 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 6: the journalists who had published the contents of the files 348 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 6: stolen from media, was assigned to cover it. The lead 349 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,479 Speaker 6: prosecutor was John Berry. 350 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 7: My principal concern going in was that it was going 351 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 7: to be the swactive Clow. 352 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 3: Was it a frustrating situation? 353 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 7: Not at all, Not at all. I really didn't care, 354 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 7: because the one thing we had in this case was 355 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 7: substantial abinism was not. 356 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 6: On the surface. Barry's task looked pretty straightforward. After all, 357 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 6: the defendants weren't even pretending they hadn't done the crime. Plus, 358 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 6: the judge, the Honorable clarks And S. Fisher, was conservative, 359 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 6: an Army veteran who had been appointed by Richard Dixon. 360 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 6: In the defense's opening statement, Father Doyle asked the jury 361 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 6: who had really gone too far, the military that had 362 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 6: waged a brutal war in Vietnam for twelve years, or 363 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 6: the civilians simply trying to end it. He painted a vivid, 364 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 6: shocking picture of the brutality of war, referencing the violence, 365 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 6: bombs and bodies torn apart. But then it was time 366 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 6: for the prosecution to call its witnesses. John Berry asked 367 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 6: a long line of FBI agents the same questions. Did 368 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 6: you see people break into the office? 369 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 2: Yes? 370 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: Did they destroy draft board files? Yep? 371 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 6: Are the perpetrators in this room? You betcha, there's a 372 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 6: couple dozen of them right there. Agent after agent testified 373 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 6: to the same basic facts. This went on for weeks, 374 00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 6: so it must have been a nice break in the 375 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 6: monotony whenever Bob Williamson got up to cross examine the 376 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 6: very agents who'd arrested him. This was Bob's chance. He 377 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 6: stood in front of the court holding copies of the 378 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:11,479 Speaker 6: stolen media files. 379 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 4: We weren't allowed to admit those documents as evidence because 380 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 4: it couldn't be established, you know, what their provenance was. 381 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,239 Speaker 6: But he could still use them as he questioned the 382 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 6: FBI agents. We don't have an exact record of what 383 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 6: he asked, but you can probably imagine what the questions were, like, 384 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 6: why was the bureau spying on college kids? Why were 385 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 6: they tapping the phones of the local black panther office. Oh, 386 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 6: and why did the FBI want Americans to feel like 387 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 6: there was quote an agent behind every mailbox? 388 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 4: The jury was paying attention to the questions that I 389 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 4: was asking, and they were noting that the FBI agents 390 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 4: were claiming that they had never seen or heard of 391 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 4: that anywhere. Those FBI agents must have been exposed to 392 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 4: some mysterious agent that destroys memories because they couldn't recall anything. 393 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 6: The point of this wasn't to force some kind of 394 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 6: confession out of the FBI agents. The point was to 395 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 6: undermine them by reminding the jury of the abuses of 396 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 6: power described in the files. Abuses of power that violated 397 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 6: the constitutional right of American citizens to protest a war 398 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 6: they felt was unjust. So compared to what the FBI 399 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 6: had done, how bad was it really to tear up 400 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 6: some draft files? 401 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 4: It made our whole case of what the FBI was 402 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 4: up to, that they wanted to enhance the paranoia of 403 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 4: the civil rights movement and the anti war movement. 404 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 6: After more than two months of testimony from the prosecution's witnesses, 405 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 6: it was time for the defense to call theirs. 406 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: Now. 407 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 6: In order to really make their case, they were going 408 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 6: to need Judge Fisher to agree to some unusual motions. 409 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 6: The defense was planning to call a number of people 410 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 6: who technically had nothing at all to do with the 411 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 6: Camden case. They weren't really there to testify about Camden. 412 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 6: They were there to testify about Vietnam. This is from 413 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 6: a private letter which Bob wrote to Judge Fisher two 414 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 6: months into the trial. 415 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 4: All of us need courage. Now you the defendants, the prosecutors, 416 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 4: the jury, but perhaps right now you do most of all. 417 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 6: He framed the trial and the judge's role in it, 418 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 6: as a matter of personal courage. He told the judge 419 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 6: that he was undertaking a fast, a tactic he'd learned 420 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 6: from Gandhi. But Bob's fast wasn't a public spectacle. It 421 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 6: was intended as a personal message to the judge, a 422 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 6: demonstration of courage which he hoped the judge would reciprocate. 423 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 4: I would not have undertaken this if I did not 424 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 4: believe that you are capable of demonstrating this kind of courage. 425 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 4: I will continue to fast until my sisters and brothers 426 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 4: and I are free. 427 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 6: Bob says the judge checked in with him frequently throughout 428 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 6: the trial, that he seemed genuinely concerned for his well being, 429 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 6: and while will never really know exactly what the judge 430 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 6: was thinking, his actions were encouraging to Bob and the 431 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 6: Camden twenty eight. 432 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 3: As the case moved forward, he started ruling more in 433 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 3: favor of them, and as it turned out, he started 434 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 3: reading books about the Vietnam War who became genuinely interested 435 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 3: in what was happening. 436 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 6: It helped that the defendants presented themselves as respectable, conscientious citizens. 437 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 6: If the judge had been expecting a rabble of pot smoking, 438 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 6: foul mouthed hippies, what he got instead was a group 439 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 6: of normal people expressing reasonable, principled opposition to the Vietnam War. 440 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 6: Even John Barry, whose job was to put the Camden 441 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 6: twenty eight in prison, seems to have liked them on 442 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 6: a personal level. 443 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 5: Mays, people were. 444 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 7: Very hard to really dislike. I think that carry rot 445 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 7: away from century. 446 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: But Barry had a job to do. 447 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 6: He needed to convict the Camden twenty eight, and the 448 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 6: federal government needed him to prove the link between Camden 449 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 6: and the media burglary. Soon he'd have his chance. It 450 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 6: came when Bob Williamson called himself to the stand. He 451 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 6: wanted to tell the jury his story, but his decision 452 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 6: to do this came with enormous risk. 453 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 4: We all knew that this would at least potentially open 454 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 4: the door for the prosecution to start asking me, as 455 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 4: they had with other defendants who had taken the stand, 456 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 4: asked questions about my a prior involvement in other illegal activities. 457 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 6: Bob told his story how Gandhi and Martin Luther King 458 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 6: Junior had inspired him to work with the poor and 459 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 6: to oppose all forms of violence. It was inspiring stuff. 460 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 6: But then, of course came the cross examination, and John 461 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 6: Barry wasn't interested in Gandhi, he was interested in media. 462 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 4: So John Barry started immediately in asking me questions about 463 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 4: other actions. And I said, I'm not gonna I'm not 464 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 4: gonna talk about that. I'm not gonna help you prosecute 465 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 4: my friends. So then all the lawyers are standing up, 466 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 4: you know, trying to get the judge's attention. 467 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 6: Was At this point, Judge Fisher had every right to 468 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 6: tell Bob answer the question or you'll be held in 469 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 6: contempt of court. If he did, Bob would have three choices. 470 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 6: He could tell the truth, he could commit perjury, or 471 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 6: he could refuse to answer and spend the rest of 472 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 6: the trial in jail. But Judge Fisher didn't do that. Instead, 473 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 6: he addressed John Barry, and the. 474 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 4: Judge just looks at the prosecutor John Barry and says, 475 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 4: mister Barry, it's clear he's not going to answer the question. 476 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 6: Move on. 477 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: Bob was off the hook, at least for now. 478 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 6: Soon it was time for the other Bob, Bob Hardy, 479 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 6: the handyman turned criminal turned FBI informant, turned tool supplier 480 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 6: turned witness for the defense. Initially, the camp in twenty 481 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 6: eight had considered an entrapment defense, arguing that the government 482 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 6: had essentially baited them into their crime. The problem with 483 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 6: that was, of course, they hadn't needed much baiting. They 484 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 6: totally wanted to commit this crime, and. 485 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 4: Trapman would not have applied in our case because none 486 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 4: of us were reluctant to break into that draft board. 487 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 4: But certainly they did everything they could to make sure 488 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 4: that that action, you know, happened. 489 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,239 Speaker 6: Nevertheless, the government had done just about everything in its 490 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 6: power to make sure the Camden twenty eight broke the law. 491 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 6: In fact, there had been two occasions when the team 492 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 6: had seriously considered calling it off until Bob Hardy came 493 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 6: through with the tools they needed to keep going. Hardy 494 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 6: had also given them crucial advice like teaching them how 495 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 6: to use a glass cutter. That glass cutter and other 496 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 6: tools that Hardy supplied had all been entered as evidence, 497 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 6: so the Camden twenty eight brought them into the courtroom 498 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 6: to prove that the FBI had been instrumental to the 499 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 6: break in. One by one, Defense attorney David Carris picked 500 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 6: up the tools and asked Hardy where they came from. 501 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 4: They made a pile of all of the stuff that 502 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 4: the government had paid for that we used in the 503 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 4: brake in, and then another pile of the stuff that 504 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 4: we had brought. 505 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 6: To our own one pair of bolt cutters, FBI pile, 506 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 6: one hammer FBI, one roll duct tape. Well, actually that 507 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 6: came from Hardy's personal toolbox, but the walkie talkies the 508 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 6: team used during the break in those had been supplied 509 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 6: by the FBI. 510 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 4: I think they bought a ladder so that we could 511 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 4: practice ladder climbing, which cracked me up. They thought we 512 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 4: needed to practice out of climb a ladder. 513 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: When the crew needed a portable drill. 514 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 6: One FBI agent had actually gone to his own house, 515 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 6: gotten his own drill and given it to Hardy. It 516 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 6: was starting to look like the FBI had been the 517 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 6: driving force behind the whole operation. 518 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 4: The government's pile was way bigger. 519 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: It was a nice visual point. 520 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 6: The defendants pile ultimately consisted of just four things, two 521 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 6: drill bits, a quote small flat piece of metal, and 522 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 6: a single can of V eight juice. I have to 523 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 6: assume that they threw that in there for comedic effect. 524 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 6: Next to that, in the middle of the courtroom for 525 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 6: all to see, was the proverbial mountain of evidence that 526 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 6: the FBI had facilitated a federal crime. 527 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: In a trial this. 528 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 6: Long, you have to do something to break the monotony. 529 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 6: The Camden twenty eight often began the morning by asking 530 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 6: to commemorate some unusual event or anniversary. 531 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: With a moment of silence. 532 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 6: On March eighth, nineteen seventy three, they asked the judge 533 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 6: if they could begin the day by observing the second 534 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 6: anniversary of the media burglary. 535 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 7: I said, you are you know I must respectfully persist 536 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 7: on this wise, I said, somehow seems to me to 537 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 7: be totally inappropriate for a federal court to be commemorating 538 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 7: the anniversary of an unsolved federal crime. So I judge 539 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 7: looked at me, and he goes strike much recon and 540 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 7: the defense glad like, yeah, you flying won. 541 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 6: One thing was clear, things were happening in this courtroom 542 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 6: that don't usually happen in courtrooms. 543 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 7: A woman who was testifying, and basically she said, well, 544 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 7: I can't express I can't express my views and words 545 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 7: that have to do with music, and he allows for 546 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 7: playing this good plot for about ten minutes. 547 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 6: Yeah, that one might have been a little overboard, putting 548 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 6: aside the occasional guitar player. Other unconventional witnesses were much 549 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 6: more substantive. A psychiatric specialist testified about the effects of 550 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 6: war on the people experiencing at firsthand. The defense also 551 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 6: called Major Clement Saint Martin, a former draft board administrator, 552 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 6: which may seem like an odd choice, but he'd. 553 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 4: Actually seen enough to realize that the system was racist 554 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 4: because he could see the people getting drafted were poor 555 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 4: and of color, and disproportionate to the you know, their 556 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 4: percentage of the population, wildly disproportioned in some cases. 557 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,439 Speaker 1: And so he quit. 558 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:13,959 Speaker 4: Somebody asked him, you know what he thought of people 559 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 4: breaking into draft ws. He says, if they do it again, 560 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 4: I think I might join him. 561 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,479 Speaker 6: Another witness for the defense was Tron Hongtoyet, a woman 562 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 6: who had emigrated from Vietnam. She took the stand and 563 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 6: described life in her homeland before the American invasion and after. 564 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 6: In the name of liberty, she told a silent court room, 565 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 6: you have destroyed my country. Then came the defensive star witness, 566 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,800 Speaker 6: Howard zen Zen hadn't yet written his famous People's History 567 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 6: of the United States, but he had helped publish the 568 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 6: Pentagon Papers, newly leaked documents which showed the American government's 569 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 6: true rationale for the war. That made him the perfect 570 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 6: person to explain to a Camden, New Jersey jury that 571 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 6: the US war machine was guilty and the Camden twenty 572 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 6: eight were innocent. 573 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 4: So he went into a lot of significant detail and 574 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 4: just hammered home the point that while the government was 575 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 4: telling our government was telling us, the American people, that 576 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 4: this war was being fought to fight communism and to 577 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 4: keep Vietnam Southeast Asia free, the actual motivation for the 578 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 4: war and the reason why it was being continued at 579 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 4: such great cost, had to do with the natural resources 580 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,760 Speaker 4: of the region, primarily tin, rubber, and oil. 581 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 6: By this point, the Vietnam Wars toll was staggering. More 582 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 6: than fifty eight thousand Americans had lost their lives between 583 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 6: the armies of the North and the South. A million 584 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 6: Vietnamese soldiers had died. We'll never know exactly how many 585 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 6: pavillions were killed, but by nineteen seventy three the total 586 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 6: was almost certainly higher than one million. In Zen's mind, 587 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 6: there was no doubt millions of lives had been cut 588 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,919 Speaker 6: short and a nation burned for the sake of tin, 589 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 6: rubber and oil. 590 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 4: And he kept saying that over and over again, tin 591 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 4: rubber and oil. It made a big impact on the jury. 592 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 6: Betty Good, mother of one of the defendants, was in 593 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 6: the audience that day, even though she didn't approve of 594 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 6: what the Camden twenty eight had done. Missus Good had 595 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 6: lost her younger son, Paul, when he was killed in 596 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 6: action on June nineteenth, nineteen sixty seven. He was three 597 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 6: months shy of his twentieth birthday. 598 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 4: She went out into the hallway and the other women 599 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 4: were there supporting her shoes, just bawling her eyes out 600 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 4: because it had just dawned on her that the government 601 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 4: had been lying to her too about why we were there, 602 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 4: and she just felt so betrayed. 603 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,240 Speaker 1: She lost a son over tin, rubber and oil. 604 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 6: Zinn's testimony concluded on a Friday. Over the weekend, missus 605 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,280 Speaker 6: Good asked her son if she could testify. She didn't 606 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,760 Speaker 6: tell him what she planned to say, so on Monday, 607 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 6: her son called her to the stand and simply asked 608 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 6: her about her life. Missus Good described herself as a conservative, 609 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 6: someone who'd supported the war even after it claimed the 610 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 6: life of her son, but that had finally changed. The 611 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 6: following is an excerpt from Betty Good's testimony at the 612 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 6: Camden trial, read by Betty Metzger. 613 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 3: And I still, even until last Friday, I still tried 614 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 3: to hang on to the theory that my boy died 615 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 3: for his country. I realized, you know, it was pretty 616 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 3: stupid of us. It was pretty stupid of us just 617 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 3: wallow all that business about America being over in South 618 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 3: Vietnam to save it from the Communist I really feel guilty. 619 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 3: I feel guilty that we have satisfide and let them 620 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 3: take our boys. Mister Zinn said it so beautifully when 621 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:27,479 Speaker 3: he said that they were kidnapped literally and taken ten 622 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 3: thousand miles away from home. Why should these lives be 623 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 3: cut down for tin rubber and oil. 624 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 6: To his credit, John Barry decided there was really no 625 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 6: benefit in the prosecution cross examining missus Good. She returned 626 00:38:50,640 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 6: to the gallery. It was time for closing arguments. In 627 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 6: his closing statement, Bob Williamson asked the jury what had 628 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 6: more significance pieces of paper torn up in a draft 629 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,919 Speaker 6: board office or the bodies of soldiers and civilians torn 630 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 6: to pieces and the countless families torn apart by the 631 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 6: Vietnam War. And what was more offensive the Camden twenty 632 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 6: eight's nonviolent crime or the government's tireless work behind the 633 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 6: scenes to make it happen. In other words, Bob was 634 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:38,880 Speaker 6: simply asking whose motives offend you more hours or theirs. 635 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 6: Judge Fisher told the jurors that if they decided there 636 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 6: had been a quote intolerable degree of overreaching government participation, 637 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 6: they could find the defendants not guilty. The trial had 638 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 6: already lasted over one hundred days by the time the 639 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 6: jury began its deliberations. 640 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 4: Probably more than anything else numb, you know, because it 641 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 4: had been such an exhausting experience. The jury was out 642 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 4: deliberating for I think two three days seemed like it 643 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 4: took forever. Nobody else wanted to say, Hey, I think 644 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 4: they're going to find us not guilty. I didn't say 645 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 4: it either, but I know that I felt hopeful. And 646 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 4: then we get a phone call to go to the 647 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 4: courtroom because the jury had reached a verdict. 648 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 3: It was on a rainy Sunday afternoon. The word went 649 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 3: out through a telephone tree that a verdict was about 650 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 3: to come in, and so we all started driving to 651 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 3: the Camden Courthouse. The courthouse was starting to fill up 652 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,800 Speaker 3: by the time I got there, and certainly all the 653 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 3: defendants had arrived. Some of them had their children there, 654 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 3: and the children were walking along the railings. I'm talking 655 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 3: about very small children. 656 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 6: As we waited, two hundred supporters of the Camden twenty 657 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 6: eight packed the courtroom. Every seat was taken. People even 658 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 6: stood shoulder to shoulder along the perimeter of the room. 659 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 6: Judge Fisher entered and addressed the audience. 660 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,240 Speaker 3: He was concerned. He was concerned how the audience might react. 661 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 3: He saw how big it was, and he said, we 662 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 3: have to go through a lot of defendants and ask 663 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 3: the jury foreman about each one on each count. 664 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 6: Judge Fisher asked that there'd be no interruptions or outbursts. 665 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 6: As the verdicts were read, he called the jurors in. 666 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 6: They took their seats. 667 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 3: They'd looked very, very tired, and so he called on 668 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 3: the jury foreman and said, do you have verdicts? And 669 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 3: he said he did. 670 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 6: The accused sat shoulder to shoulder at long tables near 671 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 6: the front of the room. They were two floors below 672 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 6: the very draft board offices they had raided. 673 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: Twenty one months earlier. 674 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 4: So of course we're all very nervous in everything, but 675 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 4: of course the adrenaline was just going crazy in my body. 676 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 3: The judge began alphabetically with defendant Terry Buccaloo, and he 677 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 3: asked the jury foreman what the verdict was on count 678 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 3: one for Terry Bucaloo, and he said, not guilty. 679 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: There was this sort of. 680 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 3: Stunned feeling, and then the judge went through each of 681 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 3: the of the counts and ask him the same question, 682 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 3: and each time the jury foreman said, uh, not guilty. 683 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 4: There was a kind of a murmur in the courtroom, 684 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 4: and the judge says, to the four person, do you 685 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 4: have any other verdicts on any of the other defendants 686 00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 4: that are different? On any of these counts. Foreman said no, 687 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 4: your honor. So at that point it was bedlam. 688 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 3: First, it was like people were sort of gasping, almost. 689 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 3: The defendants were looking at each other in these at 690 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:28,480 Speaker 3: first puzzled ways, and then very happy, very grateful prase, 691 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, and they started embracing each other. And the 692 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 3: people in the in the audience were also stunned, and 693 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 3: they started singing Amazing Grace, and it was a little 694 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:51,279 Speaker 3: difficult for them because many of them the tears were 695 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,839 Speaker 3: streaming down their faces as they were trying to sing. 696 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 1: It just sounded beautiful. 697 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,400 Speaker 4: I mean, it was just it was just such the 698 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,600 Speaker 4: the perfect thought of, the perfect way to show our 699 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 4: appreciation for what had just happened. 700 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,880 Speaker 3: The judge was smiling as he left the room. I 701 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 3: was standing right behind the prosecutors, and then I realized 702 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 3: that the Chief Prosecutor, John Barry, had walked from his 703 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,920 Speaker 3: position at the prosecutor's table over to the defendants. Everybody 704 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 3: had that look of and what do I do on 705 00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 3: their faces, and he put out his hand to one 706 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 3: of them, and as he shook hands, the handshake turned 707 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,360 Speaker 3: into an embrace of the defendant, and then he just 708 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,320 Speaker 3: kept moving from defendant to defendant, and then he walked 709 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 3: back to his seat, and he turned around and he 710 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 3: said to me, it ended the way it should have ended. 711 00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 3: I certainly don't think that any prosecutor in any anti 712 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 3: war trial, and perhaps any case that I've ever known of, 713 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 3: has said such a thing. 714 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 4: I had to go to the bathroom, and so I 715 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:17,800 Speaker 4: went into the men's room, and there was like four stalls, 716 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 4: and three of them were occupied, and one in the 717 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,880 Speaker 4: center was open. So I went to that one, and 718 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 4: on either side of me was an FBI agent, And 719 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 4: after we all finished our business, they both shook my 720 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,399 Speaker 4: hand and congratulated me and wished me luck. 721 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,760 Speaker 6: The defendants started to gather in the halls outside the courtroom, 722 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 6: where they were welcomed by singing supporters and a throng 723 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 6: of TV cameras. 724 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 2: This was the scene in the courthouse lobby minutes after 725 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 2: the not guilty verdicts were announced. More than one hundred 726 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 2: relatives and friends were present as the defendant's two year 727 00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:58,359 Speaker 2: ordeal ended. 728 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 6: Betty Good, who had lost one son in Vietnam and 729 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,720 Speaker 6: had another son amongst the Camden twenty eight, couldn't believe 730 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:06,360 Speaker 6: the outcome. 731 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,799 Speaker 1: She was practically giddy with relief. I thought it would 732 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 1: be a hung jury. 733 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 3: But I didn't know any of the people accept my 734 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 3: son and know the most beautiful. 735 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:14,839 Speaker 1: People in the world. 736 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 3: I had to go back and convert my husband, not 737 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,680 Speaker 3: only my husband, but might family. 738 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 6: But a husband's a good fellow. 739 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: But you know he was, so he was who's afraid 740 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:23,160 Speaker 1: to come today? 741 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,879 Speaker 3: Because he was afraid, you know, that verdict would be bad, 742 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:27,920 Speaker 3: so he didn't come. 743 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,120 Speaker 6: It was clear to anyone watching this wasn't just a 744 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,760 Speaker 6: victory for the Camden twenty eight. It was a victory 745 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,399 Speaker 6: for every American who had fought to end the war 746 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 6: in Vietnam. 747 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:37,840 Speaker 8: We did it. 748 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: After five years. 749 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 6: We finally made sense to them. 750 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 2: We've been having a guilty, guilty, guilty for five years 751 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 2: for proposing this war, and we finally got not guilty. 752 00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: The people understood. 753 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:55,399 Speaker 5: I was surprised, pleasantly, but still surprised. It was Sue 754 00:46:55,480 --> 00:47:00,399 Speaker 5: was really intense. This group of twelve regular people were 755 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,839 Speaker 5: saying that we were right and the government was wrong. 756 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:05,879 Speaker 5: Far as I knew, none of these people had ever 757 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 5: participated even you know, they hadn't even written a letter 758 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,919 Speaker 5: to the editor against Vietnam, let alone done anything else, 759 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 5: and I'm like, damn, we are getting somewhere. It was 760 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:18,480 Speaker 5: a great victory for the movement. 761 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 3: I remember turning around and seeing John and Vonnie Rains 762 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 3: and they were all smiles and they were just very, 763 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,560 Speaker 3: very happy. There were some tears on their faces. 764 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,000 Speaker 6: John Rains would later say that at that very moment 765 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,239 Speaker 6: he decided he needed to go on a diet. He 766 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 6: wanted to look good in a suit in case he 767 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,880 Speaker 6: was eventually arrested for the media burglary and went to trial, 768 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,920 Speaker 6: because the Camden verdict gave him hope that a potential 769 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,799 Speaker 6: trial might not send him straight to prison, but rather 770 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,640 Speaker 6: give him a platform to tell the world that his 771 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 6: cause had been just and that the FBI's was not. 772 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 6: The Camden twenty eight were free, and it wasn't just 773 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,120 Speaker 6: a victory for the defendants. It was also a massive 774 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 6: embarrassment for the FBI. When the trial began, the bureau 775 00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,840 Speaker 6: thought not only was this a slam dunk, but it 776 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,800 Speaker 6: would also be an end to the media saga, a 777 00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 6: satisfying conclusion where the g men put a whole bunch 778 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,840 Speaker 6: of bad guys behind bars, just like they did on 779 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 6: that corny FBI TV show. Instead, the cracks originally exposed 780 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,360 Speaker 6: in the media, burglary had only split wider and the 781 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,239 Speaker 6: story still wasn't over. 782 00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,960 Speaker 1: The whole damn dam was about to burst. 783 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 6: Next week on SNAFU and flipping through the pages, I 784 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:49,720 Speaker 6: noticed one. 785 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,840 Speaker 1: It said Cohen Telpro new List. 786 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,719 Speaker 2: As for the records at FBI headquarters, they were put 787 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,279 Speaker 2: in a special file called the. 788 00:48:58,760 --> 00:48:59,520 Speaker 1: Do not file. 789 00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,680 Speaker 3: Subsequently, we learned to find a lot of those people 790 00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,759 Speaker 3: where in fact not only agent Provoca tools but undercover officers. 791 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 5: It's a very sad spectacle and that's just you know, 792 00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,880 Speaker 5: one of probably two Salzaners. 793 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 1: So cases like throughout the country. 794 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,920 Speaker 8: There has never been a full public accounting of FBI 795 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 8: domestic intelligence operations. Therefore, this committee has undertaken such an investigation. 796 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:30,160 Speaker 6: Snafu is a production of iHeartRadio, Film, Nation Entertainment, and 797 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:34,560 Speaker 6: Pacific Electric Picture Company in association with Gilded Audio. This 798 00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,120 Speaker 6: season of Snaffoo is based on the book of the Burglary, 799 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 6: The Discovery of j Edgar Hoover's Secret FBI, written by 800 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:41,480 Speaker 6: Betty Metzger. 801 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,279 Speaker 1: It's executive produced by me Ed Helms, Milan. 802 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,120 Speaker 6: Papelka, Mike Walbo, Whitney, Donaldson, Andy Chug, Dylan Fagan, and 803 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,640 Speaker 6: Betty Metzger. Our lead producers are Sarah Joyner and Alyssa Martine. 804 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:58,000 Speaker 6: Producer is Stephen Wood. This episode was written by Albert Chen, 805 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 6: Sarah Joyner and Stephen Wood, with the dish writing and 806 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,360 Speaker 6: story editing from Melissa Martino and Ed Helms. Tory Smith 807 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,120 Speaker 6: is our associate producer. Nevin Callapoly is our production assistant. 808 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,560 Speaker 6: Fact checking by Charles Richter. Our creative executive is Brett Harris. 809 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:17,000 Speaker 6: Sensitivity consult from Olowa Kemi, Ala de Suiy, editing, sound 810 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 6: design and original music by Ben Chugg, Engineering and technical 811 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,560 Speaker 6: direction by Nick Dooley. Additional editing from Kelsey Albright, Olivia 812 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,560 Speaker 6: Canny and Jimma Castelli Foley. Theme music by Dan Rosatto. 813 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,600 Speaker 6: Special thanks to Alison Cohen, Daniel Welsh, and Ben Rizak. 814 00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,799 Speaker 6: Additional thanks to director Joanna Hamilton for letting us use 815 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,440 Speaker 6: some of the original interviews from her incredible documentary nineteen 816 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:44,360 Speaker 6: seventy one. Finally, our deepest gratitude to the courageous Citizens 817 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:49,400 Speaker 6: Commission to Investigate the FBI, Bill Davidon, Ralph Daniel, Judy Finegold, 818 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:54,520 Speaker 6: Keith Forsyth, Bonnie Rains, John Rains, Sarah Schumer and Bob 819 00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:55,160 Speaker 6: Williamson 820 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 2: Co