Speaker 1: Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Table Pop podcast all your favorite episodes from the
Speaker 1: Facebook Watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. This particular show is about child marriages
Speaker 1: that we've been advocating to stop in third world countries
Speaker 1: is actually happening here in the United States. So crazy
Speaker 1: to me. So when the producers told me about this story,
Speaker 1: I was like, are you kidding me again? That there's
Speaker 1: this issue going on here in the United States that
Speaker 1: we don't know about. There's only two states, New Jersey
Speaker 1: and Delaware where you have to be eighteen years old
Speaker 1: in order to get married. Only two states in the
Speaker 1: United States. That's it. That's it. Wow, you can be
Speaker 1: seven years old. Does the law allow it because it's
Speaker 1: it's a religious thing. No, it doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: a religious thing. All you have to do is have
Speaker 1: the consent of either a judge in some states, consent
Speaker 1: of a parent in some states. Some states you need
Speaker 1: the consent of two parents. So what a lot of
Speaker 1: people do is that they're state shop, okay, to figure
Speaker 1: out where the laws. Why we're trying to figure why
Speaker 1: why would the parents. We're gonna we're gonna talk to
Speaker 1: some young ladies today and they're going to explain what
Speaker 1: their experiences were. But it varies. I need to hear
Speaker 1: the different reasons. Yeah, me too. What we're doing a show.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for being here with us, Genevieve Sarah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we really appreciate you coming today. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: talking to us about this subject, because for us, we didn't.
Speaker 1: I was so shocked when the producers told me that
Speaker 1: this was something that's actually happening in the United States. Eights. Um,
Speaker 1: that's a common response. Yeah, we were totally unaware, Like
Speaker 1: we are aware of that it happens in certain religious
Speaker 1: cultures and overseas. It's a common misconception that child marriage
Speaker 1: happens abroad and it doesn't happen here. Them not us.
Speaker 1: That's that's them, it's it's not us. So I think
Speaker 1: people have this misconception of like the childhood sweethearts, that
Speaker 1: is child marriage of yesterday, of the fifties and sixties. Today,
Speaker 1: what child marriage looks like is the majority girls marrying
Speaker 1: adult men, and it doesn't just happen within religious sex
Speaker 1: or religious cults. It happens across the boarden for many
Speaker 1: different reasons, and generally it's one parent or both parents
Speaker 1: forcing the child into the marriage. Genevieve, your story is heartbreaking,
Speaker 1: and what's interesting about it is that from what I
Speaker 1: know so far, that it wasn't based in any kind
Speaker 1: of religious And I know this is your first time
Speaker 1: that you're actually talking about it in public, and I
Speaker 1: really want to thank you. I'm so glad that you're
Speaker 1: willing to share this with us. Genevieve grew up in
Speaker 1: southern California as a child who fell through the cracks
Speaker 1: of this system. She never knew her father, really got
Speaker 1: to go to school, and frequently bounced between foster care,
Speaker 1: shelters and even juvenile hall. But it was one spring
Speaker 1: when she went to live with her mother that her
Speaker 1: world turned even darker. So I turned fifteen and I
Speaker 1: met a man down the street. He was forty two.
Speaker 1: Really prayed on me right away. Um, but keep in mind,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I feel like I have no value.
Speaker 1: But at this point, nobody's ever helped me, nobody's are
Speaker 1: reporting anything into me. You know, I was so alone,
Speaker 1: just utterly alone. So it was weird from the start,
Speaker 1: like the things that he would say to me. I mean,
Speaker 1: I knew it wasn't right, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: to have somebody notice you and compliment you, um, so
Speaker 1: it was very confusing. It wasn't long before things started
Speaker 1: progressing and behavior became more and more inappropriate, and he
Speaker 1: was arrested. And then within a few days, my mom
Speaker 1: approached me and said, you know, this is all your fault.
Speaker 1: You're slut, You seduced this man, this is this is
Speaker 1: your fault. And so she offered the solution. She said,
Speaker 1: if you guys get married, then he will not be prosecuted.
Speaker 1: So he's been arrested, he's posted bail, he's out, there's
Speaker 1: a pending court date. So the goal for her was
Speaker 1: to marry me before that court date, so then the
Speaker 1: charges would be dropped and he wouldn't be prosecuted. And
Speaker 1: she said things like, you know, because he had children,
Speaker 1: and she's like, you know, he's going to lose his children,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's going to lose everything, and just
Speaker 1: basically his life is more valuable than yours and we're
Speaker 1: going to swap them out. That she gravitated to what
Speaker 1: was about was best for you? So some she figured
Speaker 1: out that Mississippi was probably a good bet to get
Speaker 1: this feed accomplished. So she went and she signed over
Speaker 1: power of attorney to this man. She copied her driver's license,
Speaker 1: and she gave him me and they went to big
Speaker 1: lots and got cheap, scratchy lingerie and lube, and then
Speaker 1: he took me in um an RV that he had borrowed,
Speaker 1: and we drove from southern California to Mississippi, and we
Speaker 1: had really painful intercourse. Often I remember just crying and
Speaker 1: crying and him telling me to stop and I needed
Speaker 1: toughen up. And he said that he was trying to
Speaker 1: help me, that he knew that my mom was really bad,
Speaker 1: that my home life was really bad, and he was
Speaker 1: just trying to provide me with a better situation that
Speaker 1: included having sex with me right now. At this point,
Speaker 1: I never met my dad. By I knew that he
Speaker 1: lived somewhere in Louisiana, and I kind of knew like
Speaker 1: some names and maybe some locals. I stopped and went
Speaker 1: through a phone book every chance that I got trying
Speaker 1: to find him. I thought, I thought about, um, you know,
Speaker 1: we stopped at a rest stop or something just walking
Speaker 1: out the back and maybe somebody would help me an interview,
Speaker 1: but nobody could ever helped me before, So what did
Speaker 1: I think it was going to work this time? Why?
Speaker 1: So we got to Mississippi, we go to the courthouse
Speaker 1: and we went up to this judge and my fiancee
Speaker 1: he Um, said, hey, will you marry us? And the
Speaker 1: judge said, while I'll marry her, she's kind of cute,
Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna marry you. And before I knew it,
Speaker 1: he took out this little book and he started reading
Speaker 1: words and everything started spinning, and I'm like, this is happening, this,
Speaker 1: this is really happening. It's it, It's over, and then
Speaker 1: I went to go throw up. So that was my
Speaker 1: wedding day. Good. Was he physically abusive to you at times? Yeah?
Speaker 1: He was also an alcoholic. These drugs we got eviction
Speaker 1: notices constantly. So I didn't have housing security, I didn't
Speaker 1: have food can security. I was not able to go
Speaker 1: to school. I never did get to go to school.
Speaker 1: He did not financially support me. So as soon as
Speaker 1: I was able to, I got a job at like
Speaker 1: a fast food place, and he had assigned my work permit.
Speaker 1: So you couldn't work, but you could get married. Right.
Speaker 1: This is insane. So at this point, I am so depressed,
Speaker 1: I am so anxious, I am suicidal pretty much all
Speaker 1: the time. I feel like my purpose in life and
Speaker 1: the only value I had was what I could provide. Actually, right,
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that wasn't consensual either. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: it's not like I really said no, but I didn't
Speaker 1: really feel like I had a choice either. You can't
Speaker 1: say no. It doesn't matter, like this is what your
Speaker 1: wife is expected, It doesn't matter what they want, and
Speaker 1: if you don't comply, then what's going to happen? I
Speaker 1: always wonder, like what's the biggest Like why can't you
Speaker 1: come to them and say I want to get divorced
Speaker 1: and then they can just divorce you? Like with what's
Speaker 1: the hold up? Like like I'm just ignorant about that
Speaker 1: whole thing. Well, as a child, you may not even
Speaker 1: know where to go get the worst. You might not
Speaker 1: be able to get yourself there. It's a contract between
Speaker 1: two people, So two people enter into the contract and
Speaker 1: they both have to agree to leave the contract. Now,
Speaker 1: what happens as a minor if you try to get
Speaker 1: a divorce, can you enter into another contract with an attorney.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you can. You're a minor, so you
Speaker 1: can't even get yourself out of It's honestly a perfect trap.
Speaker 1: There you go, it's a perfect it's perfect. It's a
Speaker 1: perfect trap. That's that's a perfect way to describe it.
Speaker 1: How long were you I was stuck in that environment
Speaker 1: until I was nineteen. How did you get out? By
Speaker 1: this point, my mom had moved from southern California to Virginia,
Speaker 1: and I mostly just wanted distance from my husband, so
Speaker 1: I actually moved back with her. But I'm nineteen, so
Speaker 1: I am actually an adult. I can go get a
Speaker 1: job and I can leave. I want to write, and
Speaker 1: I'm even seeing somebody, this socially awkward young man who
Speaker 1: was nice, and I'm trying to get legally divorced, and
Speaker 1: I can't because I either don't have the money, or
Speaker 1: I haven't lived at the same address long enough, or
Speaker 1: I don't know what the heck I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1: And I found out I was pregnant, So you're still
Speaker 1: married to still legally married. So at twenty, I had
Speaker 1: my daughter and I became a mother, and that is
Speaker 1: when I woke up, got it, and then you say
Speaker 1: you woke up. I woke up and I had a
Speaker 1: reason to live. Yes, so beautiful, and the world look different.
Speaker 1: Whatever I had to do, you know, my daughter was
Speaker 1: going to have a different life than I had. Right,
Speaker 1: I was able to progress professionally. So we had our
Speaker 1: apartment and it was the two of us, and I
Speaker 1: got more confidence. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go get this,
Speaker 1: get this wrapped up. So take us back to the
Speaker 1: beginning for you. Sara's parents were divorced when she was
Speaker 1: just five years old. She lived primarily with her domineering father,
Speaker 1: who was a member of a strict religious sect. Gender
Speaker 1: roles were rigid, and her father controlled every aspect of
Speaker 1: her life. As a teen, Sara moved in with her mother.
Speaker 1: She began high school and even dreamed of becoming a lawyer,
Speaker 1: but her father had other plans. So I was living
Speaker 1: with my mom and she kind of let me have
Speaker 1: my freedom. Of course, like at that age freshman in
Speaker 1: high school, boys are starting to talk to you. That's
Speaker 1: like a normal thing. And then at that summer after
Speaker 1: my freshman year, um, my mom told me that I
Speaker 1: had to go visit my dad, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to go. Um. I was still afraid of him. Um,
Speaker 1: But you know, I had to go with my dad.
Speaker 1: And that's not to say that I don't love my dad.
Speaker 1: You know, you don't stop loving your parents, So it's
Speaker 1: really hard to like, you don't think that somebody that
Speaker 1: you really love, it's just like you know. Um. But
Speaker 1: as soon as I got off the plane, he basically
Speaker 1: sat me down and was just like, you know, you
Speaker 1: can't have sex outside of marriage, and you're getting married.
Speaker 1: The leader of our group is going to pick somebody
Speaker 1: for you, and you're getting married. I think he thought
Speaker 1: that he had to protect my sexuality at all costs,
Speaker 1: and if he didn't, not only I would go to Hell,
Speaker 1: which was a very real place for me, but he
Speaker 1: would as well. And I don't have any way to
Speaker 1: talk to my mom. I wasn't allowed to talk to
Speaker 1: my mom. Did she know that's what he was No,
Speaker 1: she thought it was coming back to live with her
Speaker 1: and like finish my high school. That's what she thought.
Speaker 1: How old were you? I was fifteen and he was
Speaker 1: twenty eight, and I was spiritually married to him that
Speaker 1: same night. You had a wedding you So it's kind
Speaker 1: of like when you go to the church and you
Speaker 1: just get married in the church, but it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: the legal part of it. And after that night, I
Speaker 1: was physically handed over to this man who I just
Speaker 1: met that morning, and for all legal purposes, he was
Speaker 1: like my guardian. So it was almost like I went
Speaker 1: from being a daughter to now a wife. And because
Speaker 1: just one night let him take you. And I just
Speaker 1: remember kind of like, Okay, like this is what I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to do. This is what I've been told what
Speaker 1: to do, like my entire life. So it's almost like
Speaker 1: I felt like, oh, I'm doing the right thing thing,
Speaker 1: I'm agreeing to something that I was always supposed to do,
Speaker 1: like I've always been destined to do this. And I
Speaker 1: thought at that time, like I'm a wife now, like
Speaker 1: I have to accept this and like be a wife,
Speaker 1: you know, and like take on the duties you're I
Speaker 1: was told, like, you can't use birth control when your
Speaker 1: husband wants to have sex with you. You You have to
Speaker 1: do it, like that's just what you do as a wife.
Speaker 1: And I became pregnant right away, So you were pregnant
Speaker 1: bust sixteen. I was pregnant by fifteen. I hadn't turned
Speaker 1: sixteen yet. We were living in the Bay Area, and
Speaker 1: at that point he would have been breaking the long
Speaker 1: California because you have to be eighteen years old in
Speaker 1: California to give consent to sex, but not to marriage.
Speaker 1: So it's a a loophole around statutory rape, and marrying
Speaker 1: him protected him from being charged with statuatutory rape. Yes,
Speaker 1: that just is so backwards. Should be eighteen, but then
Speaker 1: you don't have to be eighteen to consent for marriage,
Speaker 1: but you have to be eighteen to consent. And we
Speaker 1: ended up going to Reno and doing this like drive
Speaker 1: through wedding chapel thing. In the state of Nevada, they
Speaker 1: only require one parent to give consent um in the
Speaker 1: form of a permission slip, like you excuse your child
Speaker 1: from class. And my dad gave my consent for me.
Speaker 1: My mom did not know. She still do not know
Speaker 1: I was out to hear pregnant. The thing that really
Speaker 1: baffles me is like, how is there just no protection
Speaker 1: for these girls if all you need is just one
Speaker 1: parent signature. Well, the expectation is that your parents is
Speaker 1: your protection, and if your parent is agreeing to it,
Speaker 1: then I don't even remember being asked like do you
Speaker 1: want to do you? Do you want to marry this person? Like?
Speaker 1: Should I call your mom? So? What was your marriage like?
Speaker 1: Were you afraid? Yeah? I mean I was afraid, but
Speaker 1: then a part of me felt like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I just have to make this work. He was controlling.
Speaker 1: I couldn't drive, He had complete control over everything, finances,
Speaker 1: like where we lived, and so it was. It became
Speaker 1: this very ugly dynamic between us. And would you say
Speaker 1: that it was more of like an emotional verbal abuse,
Speaker 1: But really I think the abuse was the imbalance of power.
Speaker 1: I never felt that I had a say in what
Speaker 1: was going on. I never felt like a human being.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until I had my daughter, who my daughter
Speaker 1: was the first love of my life, and like something
Speaker 1: in me changed and I was like I have to
Speaker 1: there's something wrong, Like there's um. I didn't think it
Speaker 1: was wrong until that point, which sounds really weird, but
Speaker 1: that makes sense because when you had children, consciousness comes,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. I started taking classes at like a
Speaker 1: local adult school and I was almost through it and
Speaker 1: I found I was pregnant with my son, and I
Speaker 1: was devastated. I felt like, oh my god, I'm stuck again.
Speaker 1: There was one point where I think we were sitting
Speaker 1: at dinner and he started screaming like he usually did,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, I'm kind of done with this.
Speaker 1: I don't need Why am I here? How did you
Speaker 1: really end up like getting the like courage to just
Speaker 1: make that, um, I mean my kids, But I felt
Speaker 1: like I had to be financially stable before I did that,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to be able to take care of
Speaker 1: my kids, and because I knew I was going to
Speaker 1: be responsible for that, So once you got financially stable,
Speaker 1: that that kind of gave you the confidence to be like,
Speaker 1: I'm going, But it took me three years to divorce him.
Speaker 1: I'm honestly starting to think that it's like planned, Like
Speaker 1: these laws are like it's systematic oppression of young girls,
Speaker 1: Like these laws are like it's broken, like we see
Speaker 1: it and it's broken, but it's like specifically set up
Speaker 1: this way for a reason, you know. I mean that's
Speaker 1: ultimately why we're sharing our stories to raise awareness. Yes,
Speaker 1: it is happening. This is how much is happening, and
Speaker 1: we do have to actually change these laws. It took
Speaker 1: me years to even just be able to talk about this.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I started going to counseling, Like
Speaker 1: counseling was a huge part of it to even like
Speaker 1: grasp what had happened. And even still I still struggle
Speaker 1: with it, Like it lasts for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1: It's not something that you can just be like, why
Speaker 1: don't you just get over that when you're feeling to
Speaker 1: your life too? And even when you think you're stable
Speaker 1: and you've got it going on, something else will pop
Speaker 1: up and be like, well, here we are some more
Speaker 1: for you to not see, like a child and the
Speaker 1: purity and the fact that you're putting them in a
Speaker 1: situation that is so the opposite of their purity. Like
Speaker 1: I just something had to have happened to them to
Speaker 1: make them think that that's okay. I still struggle with
Speaker 1: that myself, because I'm why would you have a child
Speaker 1: if you just want to abuse them? Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: get it. I don't get it. Do you know my
Speaker 1: mother or she doesn't feel like she anything wrong? You know,
Speaker 1: he doesn't feel like he did anything wrong. They feel
Speaker 1: like I'm you know, really emotionally disturbed and a bad person.
Speaker 1: Now what about your dad? Do you do you have
Speaker 1: a relationship with your dad or do you do you
Speaker 1: do you talk to him? Do you want to talk
Speaker 1: to him? It's just it's hard to I wish I
Speaker 1: could talk to my dad like we're talking right now,
Speaker 1: but he doesn't want to have that conversation. If he
Speaker 1: wanted to have that conversation, I would have it with him.
Speaker 1: But I want to have an honest conversation. I don't
Speaker 1: want to have a conversation where we're just like talking
Speaker 1: about the weather. Yeah. Right, you know you both have
Speaker 1: gone to school, You've got careers, you've got new lives.
Speaker 1: Let me just hear about that real quick. I finally
Speaker 1: went got my g D and when I was twenty eight,
Speaker 1: and I started at the community college and then I
Speaker 1: went over to the bigger college and US. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I went from a g D to a master's degree
Speaker 1: in nine years. Yeah. So my undergraduate is in human services,
Speaker 1: which is like psychology and sociology. And then ultimately I
Speaker 1: got an m b A so master's in business for
Speaker 1: you in you, Um, I got my undergrad in rolled
Speaker 1: that into a master's and I just graduated master's program
Speaker 1: and Public administration, UM. And my undergrad is in business
Speaker 1: administration that's awesome. That's awesome. Like, honestly, there are so
Speaker 1: many like even hearing you guys stores and thinking of
Speaker 1: myself like I'm just like, I don't know, just at
Speaker 1: the beginning. So like some people like their soul can
Speaker 1: just be crushed by things like this. And the fact
Speaker 1: that you guys have become even more you know, expansive
Speaker 1: human beings is like we had strong daughters we had
Speaker 1: to raise. Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much, ladies. We
Speaker 1: can't thank you enough for um, thank you for listening, listen,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for being an audience and bringing
Speaker 1: it to audience. And there are organizations out there that
Speaker 1: will help you just fight the laws, being a challenge,
Speaker 1: UM to her a Justice Center and chained out Last.
Speaker 1: This is gonna educate a lot of people and help
Speaker 1: a lot of people too. So thank you, thank you
Speaker 1: for coming to ship. Appreciate Yeah, this is awesome. How
Speaker 1: do you guys be after sharing all of that. I
Speaker 1: feel a little weighted myself, but it feels Yeah, it
Speaker 1: brings stuff back, It brings a lot, It brings it
Speaker 1: all back. Yeah, So you guys are done, We're done.
Speaker 1: Come on a new friend. Yes, Hey, r T T family.
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Speaker 1: to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook, Watch,
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