WEBVTT - Being Pregnant Has Affected My Job Performance 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.440 Welcome to game Plan, a show about our lives at work. 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.560 I'm Rebecca Greenfield, a reporter at Bloomberg, where I cover 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.880 workplace culture. And I'm Francesca Leavy, editor of the game 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.880 Plan section at Bloomberg dot com. This week, having a 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:25.079 baby and trying to be good at your job at 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:28.600 the same time. Later, we'll talk to Jordan's Salcito, who, 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.000 in the middle of studying to be a master somalier, 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.880 a job that involves a lot of wine, found out 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:37.839 she was pregnant. But first, there's something that Francesca has 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:42.360 to tell you. Yeah, I guess I have some news, 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:44.680 something that you might not be able to identify from 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:55.280 my voice. But I am myself pregnant, and and I'm 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.920 very pregnant, which means that you're leaving us. This is 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:00.720 the last you'll hear from me for a while. I 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:04.200 am going on maternity leave pretty soon. In theory, could 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:08.039 have this baby any day, and we're going to talk 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.119 all about how that makes you feel and that makes 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:13.960 me feel. Yeah, we're going to make this about me later, 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.759 but first, there is a broader context and a reason 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:20.039 to talk about this, Like it feels to me that 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:24.560 this has been the year where parental leave policies blew 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:29.200 up as a political issue and gender equality issue and 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.759 really got talked about and examined in a bigger way 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.280 than before. You know, we hear all about how the 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.400 US falls way behind other developed countries in its protections 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:41.959 for pregnant women and also the benefits offered to pregnant 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.560 women by private companies. But there have also been a 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:50.680 lot of strides toward fixing that deficit, both in a 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:54.840 policy way and companies. San Francisco passed a fully paid 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.680 printal leave law, and New York State also passed a 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:03.760 family leave law, two things that were pretty groundbreaking, which yeah, 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:06.240 is sad and and myself, but great for lots and 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:10.160 lots of parents and companies. Private companies have also been 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:15.480 certainly in competitive industries, typically white collar industries, private companies 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.960 have been trying to do more to address the issue 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.119 of how crappy benefits tend to be for and dads. 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.840 There's this kind of arms race that's happening. Uh it 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.040 is to just hire more people and keep them to 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.359 stay your company. But it has a great effect that 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.679 lots of big tech companies in particular have added parental 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.320 leave policies. Right, So it's been a it's been a 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:39.560 pretty good year for acknowledging this problem in a lot 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:43.080 of companies and municipalities and governments kind of taking steps 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.160 to address it. But there's also another level to this. 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:51.480 It isn't enough necessarily to offer better benefits or better 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:55.880 job protections. There are two articles recently that shed a 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:59.079 lot of light on this subject for me in moving 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:03.040 it past just sort of offering people more time, and 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:04.840 one of them is actually one that you wrote on 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:10.040 paternity leave policies and how men, even when offered generous 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.480 leave policies, are reluctant to take them. Yeah, so one 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:18.440 big effect of giving men time off is to even 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.720 out the gender wage gap, and that the career penalty 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.840 that women get for taking time off to take care 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.440 of kids or having kids. Because if women are taking 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:29.959 time off, if moms are taking time off, but dad's 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.520 are just carrying on working for most of the time 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.640 that they're infant, children are born, it's obviously going to 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:39.240 take a toll on one another. And they're all sorts 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:41.360 of effects that that has. So a lot of companies 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:43.600 are giving men time off to hope to even that out. 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:47.840 But this survey found that men are scared of taking 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.480 time off because they're worried that it will hurt their 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:56.160 careers bingo, which is exactly the point. But yeah, it 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.000 sounds counterintuitive, but it's like, right, everybody should get the 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.320 same penalty. Yeah, it's suppose you need to be out 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.080 of the workforce to take care of your kids, just 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.720 like a woman, right, But they don't want to, and 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:10.720 they're correctly identifying that probably their careers will suffer, which 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:15.040 is something that primary caregivers have known for a while. 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:19.239 But they can't necessarily opt out. Someone's got to change 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:24.880 the Yeah, so it is unfortunate. And another story that 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.039 really helped me see this in a different light was 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:29.839 one that was published in The New York Times not 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:34.159 too long ago that pointed to a shift in academia 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:41.400 and how academic institutions address the parenthood penalty. That you 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:44.200 have a limited amount of time to obtain tenure at 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.039 a certain point in your academic career once a clock 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:51.560 starts ticking. I think it's like seven years, and obviously 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:55.039 parenting a child would cut into that. So this study 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.640 that the Times reported on looked at policies that try 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.799 to address that by adding a year of extra time 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.800 per child, and the findings from the study where that 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:07.719 that extra year per child actually benefited men their rates 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.800 of tenure went up, but not women. Their rates of 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.120 tenure actually went down. Yeah. One of the researchers said 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.880 she knew that that wasn't working, but that she was 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.520 shocked at how much a penalized women. Yeah, it was 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:24.320 this unintended consequence of a gender neutral policy. And one 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.839 of the theories was that men were using this time 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:28.599 to just publish a lot more and get a lot 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:33.039 more done towards obtaining tenure, and women were not necessarily 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.680 doing that. And you can infer from that that they 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.320 were using that time to spend more time with their 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.920 families and take on more parenting duties. Yeah. And one 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.360 of the professors said something that I think was kind 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.520 of controversial, and she said that giving birth is an 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.200 agenda or neutral event. You know, she was throwing up 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.919 all the time, and her male colleagues were getting the 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.520 same time off when they weren't having those experiences, right, 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:58.760 And I don't want to advocate for men getting less 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.600 time off, but it really isn't interesting how to think 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:06.080 about how we deal with the different ways that being 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:07.960 pregnant and having a child has an impact on men 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:11.840 and women. Giving people more time off isn't gonna isn't 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.120 going to shift that right away. And one thing I 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:17.000 think is really interesting is we spend a lot of 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:19.359 time talking about the period after you have the baby. 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.000 Rightly so, because we need to fix all of the 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.040 policies where people don't get enough time to raise their 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:29.040 infant child and keep their jobs intact. But pregnancy itself 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.839 is something that has an impact on your job performance. 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.440 And it's kind of controversial to say it, but I 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.560 know that that's certainly true for me. I mean, you 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.279 are going to be sick and in discomfort for the 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.760 better part of a year, and you know, I mean, 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.520 I certainly remember my first time MR. The period where 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.680 you get the sickest in pregnancy is ironically at the 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:52.760 same time where you tend to not be telling people 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:56.280 that you're pregnant, so you look at best, you're sort 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.400 of mysteriously absent a lot of the time, and you know, 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.280 at worst your your green and wretching every day, and 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:07.200 you feel better as you're underling. I didn't I didn't notice, 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.280 I didn't I didn't think that you weren't performing, but 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:14.000 it does seem very impossible and difficult. It's I mean, 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.600 you know, even in the even in the ideal pregnancy, 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.960 not everybody gets sick during pregnancy. And so even in 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.640 these magical unicorn pregnancies where nothing goes wrong and you 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:24.920 feel fine the whole time, you're still going to have 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.280 more document doctor's appointments than you would normally. You're just 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.360 going to have more things to attend to in your 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:36.240 life than you normally would. And it's almost scary to 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.880 say it in a recording, but being pregnant has affected 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:44.280 my job performance. I'm not able to work at certainly 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.400 not at the stage of pregnancy that I'm in now, 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:51.400 and there there aren't really any systems or allowances in 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.920 place to to acknowledge that. And also, as a pregnant person, 0:07:56.000 --> 0:08:00.480 you're very almost defensive about being treated any differently because, yeah, 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:02.640 because you don't want to be. And we grew up 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.560 in a time, or at least I did, when we 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:07.960 heard that, you know, men and women are equal and 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.000 you can you can't raise a family and have a 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.239 kid and you can do it all. There's no difference. Yeah, 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.040 there is, But I think that this is a good 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:21.480 time to introduce our guest, Jordan's Salcito, who had a 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:26.560 job that was very diametrically opposed to what we think 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.440 of as being a pregnant person. Yeah, I mean her 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:30.320 job is a big part of her job is tasting 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:34.439 wine and her life's pursuit of becoming a master somlier, 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:39.320 and that is just about the most stigmatized thing you 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.440 can do during pregnancy, short of having a job as 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:51.640 a professional cigarettes poker. Our guest, Jordan's not only is 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.000 the beverage director at Mama Fuku and founded her own 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.800 wine company, but studying to become a Master smalier is 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:03.120 a demanding and rare qualification that requires ten exams and 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:07.719 multiple years of preparation. Thanks for being here, in Jordan's 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.000 thanks so much for having me him honored to be here. 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:14.440 So you're obviously really ambitious, really successful, and on this 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:19.600 very difficult career path. At what stage in your career 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.959 do you feel like you were when you got pregnant? Okay, 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.960 So I found out I was pregnant just a few 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:31.800 days after not getting my Master similier accreditation. I had 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.000 just so that final exam is made up of three exams, 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:39.360 a service portion, a theory portion, which is like a 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:43.199 hundred questions about anything relating to wine anywhere in the world, 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.160 and then the blind tasting exam. And I had passed 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.440 the blind tasting exam, and I had passed the theory exam, 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.720 and I missed the service exam by a few points. 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.520 So I was really sort of sad about that, and 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.040 I was thinking to myself, Oh, it's really too bad 0:09:57.160 --> 0:09:59.400 because now I can't get pregnant. I need to pass 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.440 this exam before I do that. And then lo and behold, 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.000 I was six weeks pregnant at that time. And were 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.640 you worried about how it was going to affect the 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.720 coming Yeah, I was, because I think one thing. When 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.760 I first found out, my first thought was like, oh, dear, 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.800 this is not good timing. Did you have to delay 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.720 your studying for this Master's Masters smally and all? Did 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.000 it change your trajectory? It did this past year because 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.559 the exam is only offered once a year, so I reset, 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.560 you get three years to pass all three parts, and 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.640 everyone I know thinks that they're going to like knock 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.480 it out right away. And then you go in and 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.080 it's some things are in your control, and some things 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.480 are not in your control. So you know, three years ago, 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:44.800 I was like, Okay, great, you know, I'm going to 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:48.000 study really hard and I'm going to focus really like 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.600 singularly on this, and I have three years to knock 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:54.640 it out, no problem, And it's really a humbling experience 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.040 in the best way. And what I found, I truly 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.280 do believe this. I remember like driving back from Aspen 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:04.040 to Denver, where my family is. Um the exam is 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.360 offered in Aspen every year and that's the only place, 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.400 so it's on that drive back and I could obviously 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.720 sad that I had not passed, and I had not 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.920 passed because of one table in one part of the exam, 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.200 So if he had gone like a few points to 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.880 the other direction, then I would have passed. And I 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.320 was thinking about it and I was obviously disappointed. But 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.280 then the flip side is like, Okay, you know, this 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:29.560 is like a community that all understands how hard it 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.320 is to sort of even just be there and show up, 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:37.439 and you make these friendships that are very they're very genuine, 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.040 and they're very real, even though you know these people 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.520 for like fewer hours or a short like because you 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:45.679 sort of have this common experience and you're all in 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.439 the trenches together. So even though like there were um 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.360 there were two women that I studied with and actually 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.240 another guy as well, like the day before the exam, 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.199 and we decided we were going to do this thing, 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:58.920 which was successful and enabled me to pass the theory part. 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.560 But you basically like hold yourself up in a room 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:03.840 and you just go through the world of wine, and 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.040 like everyone asks ten questions in that way, Like you know, 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.199 there were like certain questions that I wouldn't have remembered 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:12.840 to study, but they had come up in this conversation. 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.120 And I know that some of the things that I 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.760 had had in my log book came up and those 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:19.640 ended up on the exam. So and we should say 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.319 about that bond that you form with this like small 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.440 group of people that's doing the same thing as you. 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.000 It is a really small group of people, right, Like 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.880 there are only a couple of hundred Master Simmons in 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.840 the world, yes, exactly, and I want to say it's 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:40.680 like a hundred and seventy or something. In the US 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.360 there are a hundred. And then more shockingly, there are 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:46.880 only twenty three women women, which I wanted to ask 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:48.800 you about you're kind of on this path, and you 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:52.480 said you mentioned this community, But I wonder how much 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.360 that community thinks about someone might get pregnant in the 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.040 middle of this journey. It's so interesting. So when I 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.040 found out that I was, I don't think that there. 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.719 I think I might have been the first person to 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.760 put in a request. My thought was, Okay, while I'm pregnant, 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.280 that's going it's going to be easier to study and 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.800 take this exam if I'm pregnant as opposed to if 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.680 I am taking care of a small child. So there's 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.160 also an exam in London. So I did ask the 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:19.200 court if they would be open to me taking the 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.240 exam in London. The court is the Court of Master 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:26.720 som I love that too. I just imagine you bowing 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:34.000 before the court homecoming like a long road. Um. Yeah, 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.320 there's a lot of tradition in there. But I asked 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.600 if I could take it in London, and I guess 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:40.920 it was determined that that would maybe put me at 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:45.880 an unfair advantage, so I was not granted that request. Um, 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.200 that's kind of funny. They're worried about putting it an 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:52.720 unfair advantage when you're at maybe a theoretically huge disadvantage. 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.000 That was, what would the advantage that you could take 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.559 it sooner? That you could take it sooner exactly, And 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.400 and there is that it vantage. I think the counter 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.360 argument as well, you know, you're also not sleeping as 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.680 much and you can't keep any down. Yeah, and you're 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.760 about to prepare for like the most physically and emotionally 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.360 traumatic moment of your life. So there's there's also all 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.040 mail no, no, no, it's not there are there are 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.760 the twenty three women in the US gun Court, and 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.800 there I think of a handful also from the London 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.960 branch um, but there are far fewer women to be sure, 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.520 as you just mentioned. And then the other option was 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.600 to take it in this year when it was offered again. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.960 So the way that now they've restructured it a little bit, 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.640 and the way that the exam is organized as everyone 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.680 has the opportunity to take the first part of the exam, 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.040 which is the theory part now, So whereas before you 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:47.720 could sort of take them all through at the same 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.400 time and pass in whatever order you wanted to pass, 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:52.720 now you have to sort of get through the gates 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.560 of theory and it's an insanely intense exam. So what 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.880 I did before the like, before that day of being 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.960 old up with the three other people, I spent the 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:07.200 week beforehand completely by myself. I went to my parents house. 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.560 I have a house in the mountains in Colorado, and 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.680 I was the only one there, no no anyone else, 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.800 And I just studied for that entire week. And it 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:19.440 was like, it's things that you're already studying the whole 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.560 year before that and the year before that too, but 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.520 it's just there's so much and everything is fair game. 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.440 So I found it very helpful for me to just 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.880 sort of like focus entirely on that. And then I 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.280 had this vision that I would take that theory exam 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.600 this year when and Henry, my son, who is now 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:39.400 four and a half months, he was four and a 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:43.160 half weeks at the time, and in my mind, um, 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.280 I was sort of like, oh, that's no problem, Like 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:47.640 baby sleep a lot, it's not going to be a 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:49.600 big deal. I'll just like hop on a plane and 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:51.680 maybe I'll bring him and maybe I won't, And then 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:53.800 of course you get to sort of that was like 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.760 an unrealistic idea in my in my head, I think 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:58.080 it would have been one thing if I had a 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.400 private jet and could have that by myself. But ye, 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.320 and maybe a team of helpers. Is somebody who did 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:06.600 not have a private jet or a team of helpers, 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.320 then then it just and also it just didn't seem 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.240 like it made any sense. It was sort of like, 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.600 why would I do that and put this tiny baby, Like, 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.280 either I leave the baby at home, and I'm the 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.520 way that this baby gets fed, and so like do 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.160 I want to really and and also those four weeks 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.440 leading up to the exam, I really like it was 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.000 simply not my highest priority. It was sort of like 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:33.040 you immediately have this this tiny little being who depends 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:37.080 on who was a hundred percent dependent on me for survival. 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:41.000 So you've delayed, You've delayed it. Now delayed it now? Yeah, 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.760 so I will wait until next year? Yeah, because you 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.000 only have one. There's only one time every year that 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:48.040 it's offered. I think it's so important when you say, 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:49.560 like I'm the way the baby gets fed, and that 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.120 your priorities automatically shift and there's not much you have 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.200 to do with it. Because one of the cultural issues 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.720 that women tend to wrestle with around maternity leave is 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.440 that your colleagues kind of think you're on vacation when 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.400 you're not there, and all they're really aware of is 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.040 that you're not there. And no amount of human resources 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.320 trainings can really train people to understand that there's a 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.720 reason you can't take their emails and you can't even 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.400 really prioritize work questions over this human being you're trying 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:18.679 to keep alively totally. And I think what I what 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.119 I believe is that anyone who has a child is 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.560 immediately empathetic, and anyone who hasn't had a child, but 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.520 at some point in the future will will then get 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.840 it immediately. You know. The thing that I was worried 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:34.560 about it was sort of like, what what if I 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.720 stopped caring about all the things that I care about now? 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:39.920 Like what if I, like, I know, I'm going to 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:43.000 prioritize this baby because I'm biologically programmed to do that, 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.880 but what about all of these things that I've cared 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:48.600 about up to this point. Or That's exactly what I'm 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.600 going through right nowtally. And the best analogy that I 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.440 heard was that it's like discovering a room in your 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:58.160 house that's your new favorite room. So it's like your house. 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.639 It's not like you have to move houses and downgrade 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.760 houses or that like your house goes to pieces or disarray. 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.600 It's that you just have this new discovery and you 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.600 sort of love spending time in that room. And I 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.439 love that. Yeah, So I want to talk about that 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.280 time for you, the time when you're pregnant, because we 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.680 often talk about having kids in the workplace after the 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.280 kid is born, but pregnancy is also a big part 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.760 of that. And your job being someone who not only 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.480 is studying to be a master smell a but beverage 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.199 director and you have a wine company. Alcohol is a 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.080 part of your life. So how how did you deal 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.320 with that at the time? Such a good question. Okay, 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.080 So for me, I guess the first thing I did 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.960 is I wanted to read all the studies. I think 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:47.760 up until you're drinking something crazy like five drinks a day, 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:51.560 there's actually no impact on intellect or i Q or 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.560 behavioral problems. For me, I simply lost my appetite for it, 0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:01.560 so I didn't enjoy drinking. How Ever, the other piece 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.240 totally totally, And the thing about it is that that's 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:10.000 that is tasting and tasting. So the other like one 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.960 of the hormones that kicks in is this ability to 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:17.399 like smell things very intensely. And it's inconvenient at times 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.560 because you just sort of smell things, especially in New 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:23.640 York where it totally oh my goodness and like the subway. Yeah, 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:28.320 it was, yes, But from an analytical standpoint, it was 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.920 just as easy to analyze wine or like and make 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:37.119 decisions about beverages. For the program, You're lucky you kind 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.280 of had this superpower. I I was lucky. I was lucky. 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.760 I mean, and I think, like the thing to remember 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.120 and this is, like, I guess if anyone out here 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.520 is pregnant and doesn't know this, the thing that I learned. 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:49.639 It was at twenty six weeks and I ended up 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.760 in the hospital for premature contractions that were not Brexton Hicks, 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.520 but dehydration is the number one cause of premature labor. 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.399 So just drink a lot of water. And I started 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.160 drinking a lot more water and tons of coconut water 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.000 and all that after I learned that. So we're talking 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.720 a little bit about the biological things that happened and 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:12.120 how that affected your job. But then there's the cultural side, 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.199 and we've been talking about the stigma of being pregnant drinking, 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.959 So did that affect you at all? That was so 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:23.280 present in my mind. I was really very very nervous 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:27.040 about that, and and I have to say it was 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.239 so much easier than I was thinking it would be. 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.480 Everyone has a different pregnancy, for sure, but I found 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.679 that I had energy up until the last like and 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.600 you know, I think some people show differently than others, 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.680 And I found I was up through six and a 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:45.840 half months able to sort of hide, like just with 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.359 really baggy clothing or which it's unfortunate that you have 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.280 to do, but it was, Yeah, I mean part of 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:54.320 me was like, you would be way more badass if 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:55.760 you didn't feel like you had to do that. But 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.400 I remember there was a great tasting with Dances Robinson. 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:02.199 She came to down a guy named Levy Dalton organized 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:05.800 a few similias and Dances was there and I didn't 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:08.919 want the conversation to be about pregnancy because I felt like, 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:13.560 that's not like me being pregnant. It's not an illness 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.840 and it didn't impact my brain and you know, I 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:18.879 was still able to think in the same way and 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:21.320 make the same sort of decision. Sounds like for you, 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.600 and in the end, being pregnant it helped you. It 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:27.320 did because it gave me this sort of like understanding 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.439 that it's not I was. I had a lot of 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:34.080 fear surrounding it, and in my reality was that my 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:39.200 bosses were very supportive, my team was very supportive. Some 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:41.760 of the team are women and some of the team 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:46.080