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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, I'm Kaylie Shot and this is too much

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Speaker 1: to say it out you. So this week's episode, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to talk about control issues, and um, whether or

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Speaker 1: not I have them depends on your definition of control issues.

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Speaker 1: I think all of us have control issues, whether it's

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Speaker 1: that you need too many or you give other people

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Speaker 1: control because you don't want to make decisions for yourself

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Speaker 1: because it scares you. There's a lot of different ways

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Speaker 1: that we fight with control, and I think it's one

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Speaker 1: of the most common themes in relationships and just I

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Speaker 1: don't know the human experience. So for me, I was

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Speaker 1: always called controlling, and I've figured out as I've gotten

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Speaker 1: older that I don't really give a ship what other

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Speaker 1: people do. I give a ship with other will do

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Speaker 1: when it affects me. And I want to be the

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Speaker 1: master of my own fate, the captain of my own

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Speaker 1: ship and captain of my own ship but ship as well,

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Speaker 1: And honestly, if a bad decision is made for me,

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Speaker 1: I'd like it to be made by me, because then

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, well you deserve that bow. When bad

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Speaker 1: things happen and it's the result of somebody else's poor

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Speaker 1: decision making, that's not fair and I hate it and

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Speaker 1: it brings me back to childhood trauma, as does everything. Um. Also,

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Speaker 1: I'm really really sorry for where these episodes are going

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Speaker 1: to go over the next few weeks. I just started

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Speaker 1: weekly therapy again based on some family things that are

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Speaker 1: happening when are pretty intense, and so I've had a

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Speaker 1: lot of time reflection. I've been journaling a lot um

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Speaker 1: so part of the brief um interruption and too much

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Speaker 1: to say where it quickly becomes a Kaylee assessing her

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Speaker 1: trauma thing, which honestly, it kind of has been the

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Speaker 1: whole time, if we're honest, but whatever, So controlling others

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Speaker 1: versus controlling what happens to me, that's just been a

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Speaker 1: recurring theme my whole life, and I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of it. I'm going to dive into the concept of gaslighting,

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Speaker 1: which is thrown around a lot and isn't necessarily used correctly.

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Speaker 1: I actually had a hilarious conversation with my uber driver

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Speaker 1: the other day. Um, whereas I think my boyfriend Sam,

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Speaker 1: I said something like something about contradictory to him and

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Speaker 1: he was like, you're a gaslighting me and he was kidding,

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Speaker 1: and she was like I'm so tired of hearing that word.

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Speaker 1: My daughter says it all the time and she misuses it,

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Speaker 1: and she was like, the funny thing is her and

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Speaker 1: I have both been gaslight so it's not like she

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Speaker 1: needs to find a reason to feel like she's been gaslight.

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Speaker 1: It's just she's totally getting it wrong. And I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of us get it wrong. I think that's

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Speaker 1: what happens when psychological terms become co opted by the Internet,

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Speaker 1: by Twitter, by TikTok, whatnot. I've been guilty of it.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's been guilty of it, and we all just want

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Speaker 1: to feel understood. We want to feel like we have

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Speaker 1: a name for our experiences. It makes Uh, there's this

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Speaker 1: thing called schemas in your brain. I think I pronounced

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Speaker 1: that correctly. Schemas, schemas whatever. And it's basically these little

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Speaker 1: boxes that we put things into that makes us understand them.

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Speaker 1: So that's why when somebody's going through something, you have

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Speaker 1: a friend giving you, like telling you about an experience

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Speaker 1: they had, why you immediately try to relate with another

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Speaker 1: experience you had that's similar. And sometimes I can backfire

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Speaker 1: because the experience might not all be that similar. It

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Speaker 1: might be apples and oranges. But the thing is you

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Speaker 1: only have a box for that. You've only put one

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Speaker 1: thing in and so you're just making new boxes. Is

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Speaker 1: very difficult, and usually you have to make new boxes

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Speaker 1: when you have trauma because you can't explain those things.

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Speaker 1: So we just want to have a name for the

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Speaker 1: things that we go through. It creates a little box

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Speaker 1: and you're able to understand it. That's why these things

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Speaker 1: take off on TikTok. I mean, truthfully, those little boxes

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Speaker 1: are super helpful and sometimes they're very very valid. Usually

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Speaker 1: they are very valid. You know, learning more about a

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Speaker 1: d h D and how it's affected me throughout my

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Speaker 1: whole life is a box and I'm able to put

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Speaker 1: a lot of things in there, like when i would

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Speaker 1: tell myself that I'm being lazy or I'm scatter brained

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Speaker 1: or I'm you know, basically a piece of ship and

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Speaker 1: can't accomplish anything because I've procrastinate all the time. Like

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Speaker 1: obviously some of that's in my control. Nearly everything is

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Speaker 1: at least somewhat in our control, but also it goes

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Speaker 1: in the box called d h D. And it's not

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Speaker 1: about me learning to not procrastinate. It's about me learning

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Speaker 1: the best ways to manage my a d h D.

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Speaker 1: And so far since I've started treating it, things have

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Speaker 1: gotten a lot better. And you know, I still have

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Speaker 1: some of those things, but I don't really want to

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Speaker 1: up my medication yet whenever, but that is a box

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Speaker 1: that's been very helpful for me. So sometimes we put

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Speaker 1: things in the wrong boxes. So gas Lighting has talked

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Speaker 1: about a lot, and it's not somebody disagreeing with you.

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Speaker 1: There's there's somebody manipulating facts and your perception of reality.

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Speaker 1: That's gaslighting. And it's based off of this play. I'm

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Speaker 1: nearly positive. I've talked about this on the podcast before,

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Speaker 1: but we have recurrent themes, and in case you pop

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Speaker 1: in and out of the podcast, I want to give

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Speaker 1: you the little recap. So I actually talked about the

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Speaker 1: movie last time. But it's actually based on a play

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Speaker 1: um called Gaslight by Patrick Hamilton's and it was written

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Speaker 1: in eight and it's really interesting because it's an expose

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Speaker 1: on toxic masculinity, a dark tale of a marriage based

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Speaker 1: on deception and trickery, and husband committed to driving his

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Speaker 1: wife in saying in order to steal from her, and

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Speaker 1: that's insane because it was eight Like way before we

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Speaker 1: were talking about toxic masculinity. But this is the synopsis

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Speaker 1: of it. Spoiler alert if you plan on watching or

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Speaker 1: reading this, but it's kind of a spoiler if you

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Speaker 1: know what gaslighting means anyway. So the play is set

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Speaker 1: in fogbound London in eighteen eighty at the upper middle

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Speaker 1: class home of Jack Manning him and his wife Bella.

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Speaker 1: It is late afternoon, a time that Hamilton notes at

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Speaker 1: the time before the feeble dawn of gas light and tea.

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Speaker 1: Bella is clearly on edge, and the stern approaches of

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Speaker 1: her overbearing husband, who flirts with the servants in front

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Speaker 1: of his wife, makes matters worse. What most perturbs Bella

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Speaker 1: is Jack's unexplained disappearances from the house. He will not

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Speaker 1: tell her where he's going, and this increases her anxiety.

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Speaker 1: It becomes clear that Jack is intent on convincing Bella

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Speaker 1: that she's going insane, even to the point of assuring

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Speaker 1: her that she's imagining that the gas light in the

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Speaker 1: house is dimming. The appearance of a police detective called

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Speaker 1: Rough leads Bella to realize that Jack is responsible for

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Speaker 1: her torment. Ruff explains that the apartment above was once

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Speaker 1: occupied by one Alice Barlow, a wealthy woman who has

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Speaker 1: murdered for her jewels. The murderer was never found. Jack

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Speaker 1: goes to the flat each night to search for the jewels,

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Speaker 1: and lighting the apartment's gas lights causes the lights to

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Speaker 1: dim in the rest of the building. His footsteps in

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Speaker 1: the supposedly empty apartment persuade Bella that she is hearing things.

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Speaker 1: Roff convinces Bella to assist him and exposing Jack as

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Speaker 1: the murderer, which she does, but not before she takes

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Speaker 1: revenge on Jack by pretending to help him escape. At

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Speaker 1: the last minute. She reminds him that, having gone insane,

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Speaker 1: she's not accountable for her actions. The play closes with

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Speaker 1: Jack being led away by the police. Great, great storyline, right,

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Speaker 1: But that's what it is. He's lying to her to

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Speaker 1: get away with something to make her feel like she's

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Speaker 1: gone insane. So ask yourself that if you're like, am

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Speaker 1: I being gas lit? Is this person intentionally or maybe unintentionally?

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Speaker 1: I mean narcissists typically, I don't know. Sometimes I wonder

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Speaker 1: that about setty people. Do they know they're shitty? Is

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Speaker 1: this just a pattern of behavior? Have they not done

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Speaker 1: the work? To realize that this is sucked up. Regardless

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Speaker 1: of intention or not, it doesn't matter. They're trying to

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Speaker 1: make you feel like you've gone insane because they know

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Speaker 1: that they can get what they want easier if you

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Speaker 1: question your reality. So I've thought about that a lot

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Speaker 1: in regards to, you know, specifically my childhood. I feel

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Speaker 1: like that was when the majority of the gaslighting that

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Speaker 1: I had experienced occurred. Definitely had some in relationships and um,

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Speaker 1: but I think there's a difference. It has a really

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Speaker 1: really similar effect on you. But I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you can call it gaslighting. I don't think you can

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Speaker 1: fairly call it that. But there's gaslighting and then there's

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Speaker 1: normalizing toxicity, which is making somebody feel like their feelings

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Speaker 1: aren't valid on a topic. It's not so much this

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Speaker 1: didn't happen, it's your overreacting or why would that bother you?

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Speaker 1: Things like that that are actually like super super toxic.

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Speaker 1: And the trendy definition of gaslighting is just you know,

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Speaker 1: an all encompassing thing, an all encompassing statement that covers

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Speaker 1: all of that. But they are different. I think that

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Speaker 1: maybe for me, the biggest, the one that had the

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Speaker 1: biggest impact on me was the normalizing toxicity, which I do.

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Speaker 1: I do think that is a brand of gaslighting. So

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Speaker 1: I'm going to talk a little bit more about that

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Speaker 1: in the next segment about how that is affected me

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Speaker 1: in some small examples that led to these control issues

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about. Seeing it's like, okay, and we are back.

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Speaker 1: So when it comes to normalizing toxicity, there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff that happened in my family that it

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Speaker 1: was like, well, why would you be offended by that?

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Speaker 1: Why would that upset you? And this happened my whole life,

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Speaker 1: and it made me feel really invalidated to the point where,

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Speaker 1: like now as an adult, the first thing I do

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Speaker 1: when something bad happens is I look at somebody near

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Speaker 1: me who witnessed it or whatever, and I say, that's

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Speaker 1: that's really sucked up, right, And they're like, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: really sucked up. I'm like, okay, But I know when

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Speaker 1: something's sucked up. I know when something hurts me, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not bad ship crazy. I don't overreact to things

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Speaker 1: like sometimes I might have a really strong response to

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Speaker 1: a trigger, which is another word that gets misused on

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Speaker 1: Twitter a lot um, and I might over like not

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Speaker 1: but overreacted, like a tough term and the concept of

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Speaker 1: being dramatic. Me and my therapists were talking about that

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Speaker 1: and we're like, it's not real, Like if the definition

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Speaker 1: of dramatic that we use as people blowing things out

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Speaker 1: of proportion, but that's either one of two things. Either

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Speaker 1: they're really sensitive and they had a strong emotional response

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Speaker 1: to something and we should look to why they had

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Speaker 1: such a strong response to something, or they're a liar

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Speaker 1: and their manipulative and they're using their explosiveness to take

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Speaker 1: out their anger on you, or they're trying to project

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Speaker 1: things back onto you, or normalized toxicity because you call

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Speaker 1: them out on something like dramatic doesn't exist, and we

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Speaker 1: can't use that interchangeably to describe people who are sensitive

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Speaker 1: and people who are manipulative, because they are not the

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Speaker 1: same thing. I saw something on Twitter the other day

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Speaker 1: that was like, say, telling someone that made me sad

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Speaker 1: is manipulative, and I was like, I don't like blanket

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Speaker 1: statements like that because you are allowed to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: when you cheated on me, that made me sad, that's

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Speaker 1: not manipulative because truthfully, people who do ship like that

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Speaker 1: don't really care if they make you sad. So if

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Speaker 1: it's not effective, manipulation, is it manipulation is at all?

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Speaker 1: If a bear manipulates somebody in the woods and the

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Speaker 1: person didn't notice, did it even happen or a tree,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I definitely messed up that metaphor. I

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Speaker 1: think you get the joke. But and as a kid,

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Speaker 1: you know, I would, I would see things around me

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Speaker 1: like you know I posted. I've been posting a lot

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Speaker 1: of TikTok's kind of talking about this because trauma talk

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Speaker 1: is a real thing, and it's been really helpful for me,

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Speaker 1: and I think that it's a really important way of

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Speaker 1: feeling validated. It's sharing stories that sounds similar to yours,

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Speaker 1: and there's been times that because regression or repression is

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Speaker 1: a very real thing, and blacking out during trauma and

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Speaker 1: then being reminded of it twenty years later is also

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Speaker 1: a thing. It's not people lying, it's not people reaching

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Speaker 1: for straws. It's that like your brain tries to protect

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Speaker 1: you by helping you forget about these horrible things that happened,

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Speaker 1: but it can only protect you for so long because

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Speaker 1: you're going to find something that you already that you

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Speaker 1: discover that little schema box for and you're like, oh, wow,

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Speaker 1: that reminds me of this thing. And I forgot about

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Speaker 1: this box, but I just found it under the bed

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Speaker 1: in my brain and here we fucking go. So I

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Speaker 1: would see things like this. So this one thing I

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Speaker 1: posted on TikTok was about when I was fourteen, my

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Speaker 1: sister who was a drug addict um she had just

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Speaker 1: gotten out of prison again. She'd like about a two

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Speaker 1: years before, so I guess not just got out of prison,

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Speaker 1: but she was out of prison. She just had a baby.

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Speaker 1: And we were driving to Walmart in Maine orn in

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Speaker 1: New Hampshire in a snowstorm and it was really I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just scary to drive in the winter in New

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Speaker 1: England anyways. But we're driving there and she has a

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Speaker 1: giant cup that I thought was like juice or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and I just took a sip of it when she

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Speaker 1: wasn't looking, and it was all vodka and like a

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Speaker 1: splash of pineapple juice. And she's driving with her you know,

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Speaker 1: six to nine month old baby in the back seat

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, and I'm fourteen

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Speaker 1: and she's swerving whatever. We get to the store and

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Speaker 1: then on the way back. I was like, hey, remember

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Speaker 1: how you promised me that you would teach me how

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Speaker 1: to drive? What if we did that right now? And

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Speaker 1: she was so fucked up on whatever she'd you know,

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Speaker 1: had that day that she thought that was a good

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Speaker 1: idea to let a fourteen year old drive for the

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Speaker 1: first fucking time in a snowstorm. And I felt more

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Speaker 1: confident in my ability to get us home than I

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Speaker 1: did hers, and so I drove like ten miles an

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Speaker 1: hour on these back roads and she just didn't even notice.

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Speaker 1: And then I told one of my parents about this,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, hey, I think she's using again.

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Speaker 1: This happened blah blah blah blah, and they were just like,

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Speaker 1: why would you think that's a big deal, And I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I just feel like there's an infant

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Speaker 1: and and a child's life being um put at risk.

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Speaker 1: But I mean maybe maybe right, maybe that's normal. Maybe

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Speaker 1: that how is everybody? And then just nothing happened of

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Speaker 1: it again. And I did end up getting an apology

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Speaker 1: from that parent after she passed, being like, hey, you

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Speaker 1: saw the you saw the warning signs here, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we just ignored you. I'm like yeah, yeah, did um.

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Speaker 1: And then there was another time involving her and like,

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Speaker 1: I don't have any anger. I mean, she's passed away, obviously,

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Speaker 1: but having a family member who's an addict, it's she

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Speaker 1: wasn't herself like, and I've chosen to remember her as

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Speaker 1: who she was at her best and not who she

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Speaker 1: was when she was on drugs, because it just wasn't her. Um.

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Speaker 1: But one of the biggest things that happened and until

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Speaker 1: it kind of distanced me from my family, was around

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Speaker 1: the same time I was probably probably later in the year.

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Speaker 1: I think that was the winter I was fourteen. This

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Speaker 1: would have been like the summer spring. Um My one

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Speaker 1: of my parents had had My parents are very odd

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Speaker 1: with money, and one of them had a some money

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Speaker 1: scrolled away in the walls, like cash in the freaking wall,

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Speaker 1: and it went missing. I had known because of what

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Speaker 1: had happened earlier in the year that my sister was

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Speaker 1: using again, and she had sold all of my grandma's

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Speaker 1: heirloom jewelry and stolen it, and and anything that was

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Speaker 1: around the house that was valid valuable she'd steal and

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Speaker 1: used to buy drugs, And so to me it felt

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Speaker 1: very logical and very simple to conclude that the drug

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Speaker 1: addic sister probably took the money, but her in her

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Speaker 1: you know, in her the throes of addiction. Told um

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Speaker 1: told my parents that she like that I had taken it.

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Speaker 1: And I remember being on the phone with them and

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Speaker 1: being like, um, okay, so I'm I'm a middle schooler

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Speaker 1: going into I'm like, I'm a seventh grader, eighth grader. No,

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Speaker 1: I was going into ninth grade. I was going into

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Speaker 1: ninth grade. I'm like, I'm not even in high school yet.

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Speaker 1: Don't you think that maybe people would notice if I

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Speaker 1: had stolen money, because like, wouldn't I be using it

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Speaker 1: to buy things? Like I was like, I'm I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: a teenager. Like teenagers can't hide things like that. Do

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Speaker 1: you think I would have gotten my hair done or

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Speaker 1: gotten a pair of boots or something? And there was

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Speaker 1: just no like, there was no arguing with that person,

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Speaker 1: and um, it just it really really sucked and it

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Speaker 1: was really hurtful, and so I just was like, fine,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna talk to you by um if you

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Speaker 1: don't trust me. But that was I don't know what

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Speaker 1: exactly to call that, but it's definitely a form of

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Speaker 1: it's like my them choosing to believe something that they

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Speaker 1: know is a lie. And again I got an apology

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Speaker 1: for this as well, but because it's easier than facing

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Speaker 1: the actual truth. And so I guess maybe they were

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Speaker 1: being gasip by my sister a little bit. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what to call it, but I just felt like

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Speaker 1: all these decisions were being made that were affecting me

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Speaker 1: and my my safety, you know, with the whole car

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Speaker 1: thing um, affecting other people's opinions on me, ruining my

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Speaker 1: relationship with my my dad, and none of it was

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Speaker 1: my choice. Like I didn't do anything. I did not

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Speaker 1: do fucking anything, And I still really struggle with that

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Speaker 1: when something bad happens to me and I didn't do

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Speaker 1: anything to deserve it. If I did, And I've talked

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Speaker 1: about this on a podcast episode where I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes it's easier to be the bad guy.

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Speaker 1: It is because it was my choice. If I walk

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Speaker 1: into a situation, I'm like, yeah, this could backfire. I

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Speaker 1: was prepared for it. If I'm just sitting around doing

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Speaker 1: absolutely fucking nothing and then I get blindsided by a

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Speaker 1: horrible consequence for an action I did not make, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna be fucking pissed. Nothing upsets me more than that,

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Speaker 1: and so I definitely like that's where I think the

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Speaker 1: control quote unquote issues come from. But I had this

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Speaker 1: recurring dream and I wrote a song about it, um

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Speaker 1: called back Seat, and it was about being like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I would be driving down a hill and one

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Speaker 1: of my parents would be in the front seat, maybe

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Speaker 1: sometimes one of my siblings, and I'd be in the

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Speaker 1: back seat. Because that was probably about nine or ten

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Speaker 1: when this would happen. I still have it sometimes, but

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Speaker 1: we'd be going down a hill and then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, the parent or or guardian figure would disappear

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Speaker 1: and I'd be in the back seat. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: how to drive, and I was terrified, and i'd have

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Speaker 1: to try to get up in the front seat in

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Speaker 1: enough time to save the car from crashing. And I

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Speaker 1: had this all the time, like as a little kid,

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Speaker 1: which in retrospect breaks my heart because it's so telling

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Speaker 1: of what my emotions were and I didn't even know

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Speaker 1: how to name them. But I had this dream that

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Speaker 1: was explaining all of it. And so I wrote this

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Speaker 1: song called back Seat, which um, you guys can listen

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Speaker 1: to it on my EP awake, but yeah, it's just

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Speaker 1: about feeling out of control and it's like I just

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Speaker 1: put my headphones on. Um all I all I hear

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Speaker 1: is a song. Choices are made, but nobody asked me.

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Speaker 1: I watched my life from the back seat and just

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00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 1: a horrible decision making. You know, when my parents are

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Speaker 1: fighting over custody. I didn't get any say in that.

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Speaker 1: Um I was homeschooled, like I talked about last week,

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Speaker 1: I didn't get any say in that. Um I wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't able to get a driver's license, which I've

359
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 1: also talked about because my parents or my mom was

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Speaker 1: like no because she wanted me to be dependent on

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Speaker 1: her and that sucked. And I was just like, wow,

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Speaker 1: I can't make any choices for myself. So the second

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Speaker 1: I could start making choices for myself, like I remember,

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Speaker 1: my mom had been like, well, if you want to

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Speaker 1: do this and go get a job. And so the

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Speaker 1: next day I went and I got a job. And

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Speaker 1: then I came back and told her and she was

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Speaker 1: really upset with me because I quote unquote hadn't asked her,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, well, you told me to go

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Speaker 1: get one. I solved the problem, and then she tried

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Speaker 1: to get me to like quit before I started, and

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Speaker 1: I was just like no, like what are you going

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Speaker 1: to do? And I think that that was also like

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Speaker 1: she wanted me to rely on her for money because

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Speaker 1: she could control me more. It's really fucked up. It's

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Speaker 1: really fucked up ship, And if any of you guys

377
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,880
Speaker 1: relate to this, I'm super smart, because it just really shitty.

378
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Speaker 1: And so then she acted surprised when I moved out

379
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Speaker 1: my senior year of high school the week I turned eighteen,

380
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Speaker 1: But I'm like, no, of course I moved out. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to have some sort of autonomy over the decisions

382
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,920
Speaker 1: being made for me, and my life improved drastically when

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00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 1: I lived on my own, even though I had to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to pay rent and graduate high school

385
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Speaker 1: and work this job. Actually I was working two jobs,

386
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 1: it was still better because I couldn't I could make

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Speaker 1: these decisions for myself. And yeah, I just hate thinking

388
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Speaker 1: about those times where I just couldn't control. And even so,

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Speaker 1: I think having your concept of reality and what emotions

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00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,679
Speaker 1: are valid and all of that is a way of

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Speaker 1: being controlled. Um they I mean, as the play talks

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Speaker 1: about gaslighting, is a Really it's a really controlling thing.

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Speaker 1: You're trying to you're trying to manipulate and control someone's

394
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 1: relationship with reality and with facts, and that's so fucked

395
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Speaker 1: up and it'll really really hurt someone's psyche, especially a child.

396
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Speaker 1: Um Also, on the topic of normalizing toxicity and how

397
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 1: that plays into all of this, being reactionless when someone

398
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 1: comes to you with a problem is also really bad,

399
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,159
Speaker 1: and that's a similar It all falls under the umbrella

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00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,919
Speaker 1: of gas lighting, although it's definitely a different thing. But

401
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: you know, I would come to my parents with these

402
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Speaker 1: issues and they just be like, yeah, okay, And I

403
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: just remember being like, this isn't normal, right, Like this

404
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 1: can't be normal, especially when it came to the hoarding thing,

405
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: which I've gotten into a little bit. But I'd be like,

406
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 1: I don't think it's normal for our house to look

407
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: like this, and my parents will be like what because

408
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 1: they were they're both hoarders separately, which is weird because

409
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 1: when they were together, they weren't really hoarders. So I

410
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: have no idea how this happens from a psychological standpoint,

411
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: but I would just be like, why doesn't our house

412
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: look like my friend's house, is like why can't why

413
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: don't have to clear a path to walk to the bedroom,

414
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Speaker 1: And they'd be like, what do you mean? And I'm like, well,

415
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: this just doesn't feel very very normal. And they're like, well,

416
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: what's normal? And I'm like, I don't know, maybe what,

417
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 1: and then just yeah. And as I slowly, you know,

418
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 1: figured things out, I was like, yeah, that's not normal.

419
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 1: But it takes a lot for me even now too

420
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: validate my own emotions, and I'm constantly looking for somebody

421
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: to agree with me that something's up. And I had

422
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: all these opinions about my childhood and how things went down,

423
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: and you know, this feeling that something wasn't right and

424
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: something was bad. And it took my best friend, Candy Carpenter,

425
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: going home with me for my sister's funeral and and

426
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 1: seeing the hoarding house and seeing the dysfunction and seeing

427
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: how my mom tried to make the entire funeral about herself,

428
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: even though it wasn't even her child, all of this

429
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,479
Speaker 1: ship it like she had. She was like, Kayleie, this

430
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: is so bad. I'm like, really I felt like it

431
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: was you really think so? And she's like yeah, you

432
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: fucking like what? And um, I shouldn't need that. I

433
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 1: shouldn't need that validation that my my life was awful

434
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: because deep down we know, and you have to trust

435
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: your gut. And I'm always talking about that trust in

436
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: your intuition. My intuition isn't wrong. When I meet somebody

437
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: and I'm like, hmmm, this person might be shitty, and

438
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: then I forced myself to be friends with them anyways,

439
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: because I'm worried than I'm being a bit that person

440
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 1: is always shitty And sometimes you can tell when somebody

441
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: isn't there, just going through a really hard time. But I,

442
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: you know, only need to trust my instinct to distance

443
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: myself from that person until they get their shipped together.

444
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: So and you you have, it's okay to have control

445
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: over that. There's this thing called boundaries for a reason.

446
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: Again another trendy word that is commonly misused. But your

447
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: boundaries are about how people can treat you and about

448
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: what you allow. And my thing. Oh can you guys

449
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: hear the music? The neighbor downstairs just started? Good lord,

450
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god. This is my third time trying to

451
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: record this podcast because of the neighbor, and I just

452
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 1: I just can't be bothered with complaining I just really

453
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,479
Speaker 1: don't want to and I don't want to get into

454
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: an embroiled neighbor battle. I just don't have it in me.

455
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: I have too many other sources of conflict. So I

456
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: hope you enjoy the background music any fucking ways. So

457
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 1: boundaries are like, okay, well, if you treat me like that,

458
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to remove myself from the situation. It's it's

459
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: not like you can't me being like that. It's like

460
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: you don't get to and expect me to stick around.

461
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: And so it's hard, and it will make you feel guilty,

462
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: and people will tell you have control issues because you're

463
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: trying to control their behavior. You're not. You're not at all.

464
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: You're not saying like And I have this friend who

465
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: just would not stop talking about me to people that

466
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: were like wildly inappropriate to be talking like about like

467
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: family members of my boyfriend and other friends and people

468
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: in professional settings and just all this stuff. And it

469
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: always kept coming back to me, and I was like, yo,

470
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: can you can you just please like, can you please

471
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: not do that, or can you, like, if you need

472
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: to vent about me, find somebody that isn't like really

473
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: close to me or a professional connection because this person

474
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: wasn't in the music industry at all, and they were like,

475
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: you can't control me, and I'm like, okay, but you

476
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: can't expect me to be your friend after you've been

477
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: talking about me. I was just saying like, hey, if

478
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: you can stop, we can solve salvages friendship. And I

479
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: wasn't even saying stop talking about me. I was saying

480
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: stop talking about me to these people where I could

481
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: have consequences for how you're talking about me because it's

482
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: not really accurate, Like don't go blobbing to family members,

483
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: you know, because that becomes rumors and that's all this

484
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: it's just a nightmare. And they just couldn't. So I

485
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: was like, fine, all right, well I'm going to move

486
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: myself from the situation. And yeah. And then there's times

487
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: that people make bad choices for themselves and I'm like, okay, fine,

488
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: if you want to do that whatever, I don't care.

489
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: But then when I know that the fallout is going

490
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: to come back on me, Like, let's trying to think

491
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: of an example that's not just like way overly exposing

492
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: of a person. Um, somebody somebody chooses to date somebody

493
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: that I know is awful, Um, oh, okay, I had

494
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 1: This is a good example. I had a friend who

495
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: was dating this guy and I didn't like how he

496
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: treated her, for sure, But I was like, fine, if

497
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: you want to deal with this, because like the other

498
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: thing is like it's annoying when somebody keeps making bad

499
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: decisions and then your consequences are you have to listen

500
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: to and they won't take any advice and they don't

501
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: care to like stop it, and and that's where the boundaries.

502
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, fine, if you want to keep dating

503
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: this person, like I'll be around them whatever doesn't bother me,

504
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: but like find somebody else to complain too, because I

505
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: don't want to be the receiving end of this stupid

506
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to be the receiving end of

507
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: all this anxiety and all that when you're not going

508
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: to change it and when you're ready to ask for

509
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 1: advice that you're going to take. Fine, but that's upsetting

510
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: because it can waste a lot of time, like a

511
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 1: lot of time, Like people can go on for hours

512
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: about this stuff and then the next day be like,

513
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: well we got back together, and I'm like, well, then

514
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: why did you waste hours of my time? Talking about

515
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: how you were done with them, like leave me out

516
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: of it, you know. But so I had kind of

517
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: like I was like, Okay, I don't like how he

518
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: treats you, but whatever, I'm still hang out with him.

519
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: So we hung out with him one time in front

520
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: of a large group of professional um acquaintances and like

521
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: co workers in the music industry, and they were like,

522
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, pretty pretty high up people whose I cared

523
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: about what my reputation was in that setting. And this

524
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: guy got really drunk and I don't want to say

525
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: put his hands on her, but he was like kind

526
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: of rough with her in a joking way, but it

527
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: was just really disrespectful, like I don't I don't think

528
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: she viewed it as that. I don't think like, but

529
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: somebody who didn't know them would have viewed it as

530
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: that out of context, and they were like who the

531
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: funk is this guy? And I was like um, and

532
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be associated with him because I

533
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: was like, this reflects so badly on me, and he

534
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: was like falling off the bar stool and it was

535
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: just like a nightmare. So I had to have this

536
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: conversation with her where I was like, hey, like I

537
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: love you and I'll be your friend, but I don't

538
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: want to be around him in professional settings because it

539
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: reflects badly on me. And you can do whatever you want,

540
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: you can date him. She's like, we're trying to control

541
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: me and tell me who I can date. I'm saying no,

542
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: I'm just not going to be associated with that because

543
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: it could have repercussions on people's ends of me, and

544
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: that's fair. I was like, I'll be your friend, I

545
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: just don't want to be around your student boyfriend. Guess

546
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: what they broke up. I think he's actually figured to

547
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: shoot out. But she once had a person come up

548
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: to her at a bar and like, out of nowhere,

549
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: just as old lady come up to her and be like,

550
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: just so you know, honey, they never end up with

551
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: the one who fixed them. And she wasn't even with

552
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: her boyfriend. It was just totally unprompted, and that is

553
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: so true. They never end up with the one who

554
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: fixed them. So remember that. Um. But yeah, like those

555
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: are those are boundaries you're allowed to set and don't

556
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: let people think that it's normal to let people think

557
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: it's normal to like, you can be there for a

558
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: friend and let them then and support them and and

559
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: care about their concerns. But there's a threshold for that

560
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: where you're just enabling and these people are exploiting your

561
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: time and your energy and your resources, and they're making

562
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,959
Speaker 1: no choices to better their situation, and that is just

563
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: simply not your problem. So you can't control them, but

564
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: you can't control what you put up with. Somewhere are

565
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: all the story. I think the the concluding statement here

566
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: is I don't think I have control issues. I think

567
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: that I have like I have a deep need for

568
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: control as an adult because I never had it as

569
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: a child, and I just want to be able to

570
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: protect myself and my energy and my reputation and protect

571
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: myself from bad things happening as much as I can.

572
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: So when that choice is taken away from me, I

573
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: get really upset, and that feels fair. So if you've

574
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: been in this situation, don't let people tell you have

575
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: fucking control issues, and don't let them tell you're being

576
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: controlling when you're setting boundaries, because it's just not the

577
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: same thing. Thank you guys so much. I feel like

578
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: I need to close every episode being like, thank you

579
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: for coming to my TED talk, but thank you for

580
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: coming to my podcast. We'll see you guys next week.

581
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: I'm gaily sure and this is too much to say.

582
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: Question out you