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As everybody knows, I enjoyed putting 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.920 on people that are running for office. This is no 0:01:56.120 --> 0:02:01.080 just ordinary candidate. Somebody I've known a long time, George Conway. 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.520 I first got to know him as a conservative attorney, 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.200 sort of a political attorney is probably the best way 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.000 to do it, involved in sort of legal debates from 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:15.680 a conservative side. His prominence rose with he and his 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.680 former wife Kelly and Conway, And of course if you've 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.240 followed if you've not lived in a coma or stuck 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:24.320 your head in the sand, you know very well about 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:29.680 George's journey away from the conservative movement and the Republican Party. 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:32.840 And the journey has moved all the way into registering 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.960 as a Democrat and running for as Democratic of a 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.399 congressional seat as I could think of that includes both 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.440 the Upper West and Upper East side of Manhattan. George 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:47.079 A you okay with that introduction? What would you add? 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.720 What would I would add is I think the Republican 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.800 Party moved away from planet Earth and moved away from 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:57.040 me and all that is right and decent and just 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.160 and things like you know, I mean, we have a 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.760 Republican bar today that believes in tariffing the shit out 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.079 of every country in the world for no apparent reason, 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.280 and and you know, depriving people of their civil liberties 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:13.520 by taking them off from the into dungeons. And it's not, 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:15.959 it's not. It's not the Republican Party I joined in 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.080 nineteen eighty and I, you know, it's just a completely 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:20.840 I don't think it's conservative at all. 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:22.920 I think right, and I you know, I take you 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.120 as somebody because I it's funny. I think we all 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.320 go on these journeys. You you sort of figure out 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:30.520 your own politics when you watch the two parties sort 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.680 of carve things up differently. Yes, and I realized I 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:35.840 was more libertarian than I thought I was. I had 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.160 no idea right until you until you start to see 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.280 and it's on. You know. I always said the Republican 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.240 Party was made up of sort of you know, various coalitions. 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:46.440 There was your you had your Evangelicals, your Christian Conservatives, 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:48.480 you had your sort of Chamber of Commerce types. But 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:52.360 then they were also the libertarian conservatives sort of you know, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.600 get government off my back. Am I wrong to assume 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:59.840 that that's probably what threw you to the party, that 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:00.960 drew you to the party. 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.200 Yeah, I look, I mean I was more I was 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.040 more like an I mean what drove why the reason 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.240 why I became a Republican in nineteen eighty, I mean 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:13.720 I became a Republican after the election of Reagan. 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.400 I was that was a year's not to get religious here, 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.599 but a lot of people sort of sort of embraced 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:21.480 being a Republican nineteen eight. My father was one of 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.200 those people. He was from this Reagan Democrat that never 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:25.839 voted Democrat again, you know I. 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.720 In high school. If he would ask me what I 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.920 was in nineteen seventy seven, when I was in ninth grade, 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.920 which is in the Lake of Watergate, I consider myself 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:42.080 a Scoop Jackson Democrat in nineteen eighty, which was my 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.800 first my freshman year in college that fall when the 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:49.080 election happened, and I was kind of done with Jimmy 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:53.120 Carter and I actually, if I had been old enough 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:54.839 to vote, I was only seventeen, I would have voted 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.880 for John Anderson. And then when Reagan won, it was like, well, 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.120 I don't really disagree much with what he said, as 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.240 he wants a strong national defense, and I have been 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:09.359 you know, I my education on economics was listening to 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.320 Teddy Kennedy talk about wage and price controls and reading 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.120 about wage and price controls how historically they didn't work, 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:19.279 and then watching the documentary Free to Choose, remember that 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:24.120 on PBS with Milton and Rose Friedman, and it was like, 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:26.920 I don't think the government needs to run everything, and 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:30.000 that was that was the source of my conservatism. And 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:33.440 as a legal you know, legal conservatism, you know, that 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.520 was an era where legal the law was kind of 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:42.400 in turmoil constitutional as turmoil, because the question was how 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:47.719 far could judges take vague or not even just principles 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.560 in the Constitution that they just create on their own, 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:53.480 because I think they want to make the world a 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.720 better place. And I know it's like, no, no, no, I 0:05:56.720 --> 0:06:00.040 I read the document. What does the document say? And 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:02.400 what do you know? If we don't like the document, 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:04.520 there's a whole thing you do to change it. And 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.479 so I became a legal conservative as well. I was 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:10.159 never evangelical or religious conservative. It was more I was 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:12.400 kind of a you know, a legal conservative in the 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.919 sense that I read texts and I try to be 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:20.200 objective about what they say. I was a economic conservative 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.599 of the sense that I didn't believe in, you know, 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:27.240 Teddy Kennedy's price price controls, and rumored the only person 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:31.320 who did price controls in our lifetime was rich Out, 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:32.680 a side cool figure. 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.039 And there's always a Richard Nixon. Well, now there'll be 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:36.760 the Donald Trump. 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.760 Nixon was one of the most liberal presidents of our lifetime. 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.320 Not even close exactly. I mean, you. 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.839 Know, you can't explain to the kids what's. 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:49.719 Funny about it is that you know who would have 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.000 agreed with that was Nixon himself, because Nixon would have 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:58.080 argued he was simply responding to what was clearly popular. 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:00.880 It was popular to get the government more involved in things. 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.200 Medicare was popular, the civil rights you know, we were through. 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.159 Thebay he started. I mean, he did all that shit, 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.479 and he had you know, and and and you know 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.480 you ever, I'm sure, of course you've watched. 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.720 And by the way, he would have signed off on 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.760 some form of the version of Obamacare today was essentially 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:21.920 what Nixon would have agreed to if Kennedy would have 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:22.520 signed off on it. 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:27.680 Well, yeah, and remember remember when he got back from China. 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:32.200 There's there's this opening scene to all the President's met 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.160 which begins his State of the Union address in nineteen 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.040 seventy two or none of it was a jointed address 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.560 to Congress after coming back from China, and it's democratic Congress, 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:46.560 like overwhelmingly a democratic Congress, like democratic has ever been 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:50.800 in our lifetimes, and he's getting a standing ovation. Of course, 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.120 the deep down hated him because he was stealing their 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:57.200 thunder and co opting them and all sorts of stuff, 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.120 but they got all, you know, he was he was 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.720 actually a very liberal president. He was corrupt as hell 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:06.080 and and did all sorts of illegal ship and covered 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.360 it up. But you know, he was he was a 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:12.320 little president. But anyway, you know, it's the point is 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.880 that the party. You know, when I try to explain 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.840 to people, younger people today, like they say conservative Republican, 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.880 they think conservative Republicanism was always trump Ism. I know 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:28.160 it wasn't the case. They were. I mean some conservatives 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.240 they were, you know, Reagan somehow managed to bring the 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:36.479 evangelical conservatives with the more libertarian conservatives and the military 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:40.200 hawks all together, and it was That's what political parties are. 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.560 The coalitions today. You know, the Republican Party isn't a coalition, 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:44.160 It's a cult. 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:49.800 What's interesting about that is, I think the question that 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:51.840 I have as sort of I now call myself a 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:54.360 political anthropologist more than anything else these days. 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:55.959 But this is the perfect conversation for you. 0:08:56.040 --> 0:09:00.280 That's because you know, it's sit there, and what iruggle 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:04.960 with is can the Democratic Party handle this many coalitions 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.160 under its tent? I said, you know, you know, if 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.520 you think about the twenty twenty coalition for Biden, you 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.520 had everybody from AOC to John Kasek and Liz Cheney 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:16.040 and when you try to stretch a tent, eventually it 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.240 might split in the middle. Yeah, and that is a concern. 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:25.760 At what point can can the Democratic Party successfully take 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:31.480 all of you refugees right and still have a coherent, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:39.120 a coherent, proactive view of governance. I think it's very difficult. 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.480 Oh look, I mean we don't get to that question 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.240 until the current crisis. 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.600 Is over, no, which I find This is what I thought. 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.319 Your candidacy is so interesting to me because of how 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:53.240 honest you are about why you're running. 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:57.360 Right, and we don't get to have those policy Frankly, 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:01.679 I'm not I don't think them much different on policy 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:06.400 than your Abigail span Burger or your Nikey Sheryl or 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:11.080 you're who's the guy in Kentucky. I don't think, you know, 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:16.280 And I you know, Okay, I'm not a Mom Dannie Democrat, 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:19.640 but I you know, I get you know, we're an 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.800 AOC Democrat. But I get what they're trying to do. 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.520 And I you know, I kind of I admire that 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.720 they have this, you know, object of helping people, and 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:30.720 I have no problem with that. Is a question of 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.640 what the means are and how much it costs. We 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:38.880 don't get to have those debates now because we explain. 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:43.000 Yeah, right, explain your rationale. It's very unique. I think it's. 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.040 I like that how straightforward you are about your running. 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.840 And it's two terms. And here's my mission, right, tell 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:50.800 it to the tell it to my. 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.960 There it is okay. I'm sixty two years old, which 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:59.040 is why I remember, you know, Nixon going to China. 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:05.000 And I Never've always been kind of a political jerkie, 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:07.000 right I was. I grew up on Watergate, and I 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:07.640 was fascinating. 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:10.079 I think that's really why we hit it off so well, right, right, 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:10.960 I talk about. 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.880 On Watergate and and I developed two things. A fascination 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:20.280 with politics, with our constitute, no free things, our constitutional system. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:26.440 And I also developed this hatred of corrupt politicians of 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:30.520 any party, of any strike, and of people abusing their offices, 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.080 which is why you know, I mean, I'm the guy 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.720 who helped Paula Jones, and I'm the guy who helped 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.280 Egene Carroll. And I'm the guy, you know, I'm the 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.640 guy who hated Nixon, and I'm got who hate Trump, 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:47.560 hated Trump, and it's it's it's just sort of my 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.040 through line makes sense to me. But you you know, 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.480 it doesn't make sense to somebody necessarily who's just saying, well, 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:56.360 he was a conservative republic look at what these conservative publicans. 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:58.960 How could you have ever done? And if you're politically 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.240 sophisticated in your older you get it, and if you're 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.960 listening to me, you get it. But anyway, my whole 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.000 point about running now I kind of went off the 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:11.319 question here. Okay, at age sixty two. The reason why 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.439 I'm doing this I should be retired. I am retired. 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.480 I'm a retired Laura. I worked a few blocks away 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.360 from here, I about twenty blocks away from here, and 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:22.040 I you know, I did well for myself. I should 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.520 be skiing in Park City right now. Okay, I should 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:26.880 be doing something or going on a world cruise. I 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.680 should be doing all this. I can't because this is 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.640 just this is just the last few years have been 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:38.800 so absolutely appalling to me. And you know, at this point, 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.560 I don't think a lot I don't think enough people get, 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.480 even Democrats, what we have to do here. There's a 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:46.400 lot of I went to something last night at the 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.640 City Bar, which is this great panel with my friend 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:53.560 Judge Looting, and basically the lawyers are talking about, oh, 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.199 how can what can the courts do? And Louting is 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:00.520 saying the Supreme Court sucks and and it's it's disaster, 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.120 and other people saying, what about nationwide injunctions? All this 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.520 technical stuff about the law and how district judges are 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:07.360 doing their best and the Supreme Court's kind of screwing 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.520 them up, and then the administration is attacking the judges. 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.360 It's like the Framers did not He're gonna put my 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:19.439 federalist society or religious original on which you know, I 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:20.200 shouldn't say that. 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.360 The campaign people like, yeah, don't ever say don't say 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.160 the work, the effort worst you could say the other 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:26.520 f work. 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:31.880 You can't say this way, okay, the originalist view of 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.520 how you deal with a fucker like Trump, that's the 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:34.920 f work. 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.280 I think that's the that's the word you're allowed to use. Yes, okay. 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:42.679 Impeachment and removal the joke they didn't intend. The courts 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.800 cannot play. The courts don't have barneys, they don't have 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.520 police officers. At the end of the day to enforce 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.400 their orders. It requires the Justice Department to bring temper 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.800 seedings or the Justice Department to put people in jail. 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.840 They won't do that, and they can disobey orders anytime 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:00.680 they like. And what they do, and they're kind of 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.320 doing it in kind of a half assed way. What 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.520 they do is they basically, oh, they kind of comply 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.480 slowly with an with one order, like you know when 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.320 you're kind of you know, your kid is grudgingly doing something, 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:13.800 and they kind of take a long time. 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.320 So they always you're absolutely right, they complied just enough 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.040 to say they're complying with something. 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:20.800 Right, and then and then the courts can't hold them 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.160 in the contempt. And then they do the same thing 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.720 to the next person like they've done it like thousands 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:27.080 of times. 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:28.400 It's a total slow walk. 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.120 It's a strategy, right, it's a total strategy. And then 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:35.840 meanwhile they're attacking the courts. The courts cannot they cannot 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:37.400 fix this problem. 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:42.360 Okay, the problem, you're right, the framers. 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.160 Fixed by Congress. That's what they intended. That's why they 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:45.760 put the impeachment clauses in there. 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.080 They understood, you couldn't that a president was not going 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:53.360 to get a fair trap in our system. You couldn't 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.280 create a system to make it fair right in either 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.800 in any direction, which is why it had to be 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:02.520 done the separate way. My only concern about a third 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:10.160 impeachment is, I don't I don't want to presume why 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.960 you're you're focused on this, but I which is I 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.720 assume you want to say, look, we've got to send 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.240 that this is this is how you do it, this 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.160 is how the system is supposed to work, and look, 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.120 we'll do it again if we have to do it. 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:31.280 Do you worry that it's simply just weakens the weakens 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.680 it so much it just stops being a useful deterrent? 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:36.720 What what weakens impeachment? 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:37.359 Impeachment? 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:43.080 You know, it's never been weaker. That's the problem. Yeah, Okay, 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:44.840 the problem is we've kept. 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.000 Well, the problem is Mitch McConnell and that vote. I mean, 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.960 I go back. I mean everything was done exactly how 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.280 the founders intended, and Mitch. 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.960 Mccon hold a real trial. But let's set that aside. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.040 Okay. Well, yeah, it's tough whatever a real tril's supposed 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.040 to look like with it comes to this in fairness, right. 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.520 You have to actually that's what they did with Andrew Johnson. 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.560 Well, and it's actually what was done with Clinton. 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:07.800 Right. 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.920 We had a few witnesses. Yeah, they didn't actually one. Yeah, 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:15.800 yeah on video, but so we I take your point 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:21.840 on that. But ultimately we were there and Mitch McConnell choked, 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:23.160 and you know. 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.960 He deserves to burn. I mean, I'm not gonna use 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:31.440 that language. He deserves, he deserves, he deserves. 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:33.320 I always say this. I hope he regrets the rest 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:37.200 of reprobation for that. I hope he loses ship every 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:38.200 night of his life. 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:44.040 He you know, he he he was, He was scared, 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:46.760 and he had he had the moment, he could have 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.320 he could have could he have gotten the requisite number 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:51.200 of what's I think? 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:51.440 So? 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.200 Yeah, well, I know he gets Rob Portman, I know 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.800 he gets you know, probably till us. You know, there 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.840 were a handful that we're waiting for the signal, and 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:01.720 you know they would have come. I mean, if Cassidy 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.040 and Burr were there, imagine who else would have come 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:04.880 if McConnell had. 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:08.600 Voted absolutely And what he thought was, which is the 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.360 thing you cannot a mistake you cannot make with malignantly 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:16.000 narcissistic leaders like a Trump or a Putin or whatever. 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.560 You can't assume they're just going to go away. They don't. 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:21.520 He thought, shame would push push them away. 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:24.920 You know, he's not gonna go away. They always like, 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.480 they always come back for more, and they always seek retribution. 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.800 They never stop. They can't stop. They're not capable of stopping. 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:34.679 Which is why this guy's going to get worse and 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.360 worse and worse. Now in terms of whether we impeach 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:41.040 the power, if the power isn't is the most is 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.960 as weak as it's ever been, precisely because people say, oh, 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:49.440 we tried it twice, we can't do it. And if 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.400 that's true, and we're not going to try this president 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:54.879 in the Senate, if we're not going to try to 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.479 impeach this president and have a trial in the Senate 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.959 of this guy for doing every fucking illegal thing in 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.040 the book he could think of, and grifting off the 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:11.320 presidency and indicting UH political enemies on bullshit and and 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:17.240 and disobeying, you know, hutting government programs without acts of 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:22.320 Congress and usurpacing usurping Congress's power, and try and find 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.920 to rename everything, holding holding out this is the Gateway project, 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:28.320 right right that that's the Gateway project. They're going to 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:30.520 build an Amtrak tunnel there. And he wants he's holding 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.320 that hostage even though the money has been appropriated, and 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.159 even though the government has legal contracts obligating it to 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:40.480 fund this program, he's holding it costage because he wants 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.520 Penn station named after him in Dallas Airportner. This is 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.960 this guy, This is insane, and he's he's basically violates 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.679 his oath of office every minute of every hour of 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.280 every day, and except when he's tweeting in the middle 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.080 of the night. And and but you know, but is 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.800 if we can't impeach and remove this guy, then there 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:02.960 is no impeachment clause in the Constitution. There is no 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.200 impeachment provision in the country. There is no Article one anymore, 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.200 because Congress is basically seating its authority to a guy 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:13.640 who's basically saying I can make the law. So it's 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:16.280 really an all or nothing thing here. Do we want 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.080 a constitutional government? Do we want the rule of law? 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:20.920 Or are we just going to say, oh, we tried 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.840 impeachment twice and I don't We don't we want to. 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:26.959 We want to keep it in our back pocket and 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:28.640 keep it for the next time. 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:32.320 What's that know what? And that's this? Look, I sit 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:36.200 here and I will put my political anthropologist slash observer 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:37.679 hat on and say, boy, I don't know if this 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.240 is good politics, right, I don't know if this is 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:42.399 good for twenty twenty eight I don't know if people 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:44.760 are what do you do about the exhausted middle? But 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:46.600 here's the thing I can't push back on you on 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:53.000 you're not wrong about any of this, and and and ultimately, no, 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.760 you're not wrong about any of this. So it is. 0:19:56.040 --> 0:20:00.640 It is sort of and the decision I'm thinking out 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:05.520 loud here. But the number of times that collectively political 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:09.480 figures and political parties make these compromises because of what 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:14.200 we'll play in the next election versus what is right 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:18.760 versus wrong right is probably why most Americans don't trust politicians, 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:24.720 because most politicians always take the easy path, the easier path, 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.840 the non conflicting path, because they think that's actually what 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.800 voters want, and no, they want me. 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:36.719 Look, it's this isn't a political calculus, Okay, I get it. 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.600 In twenty nineteen, there was a lot of, you know, 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.080 between Nadler and Pelosi and all the you know, all 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.080 the dynamics of the Democratic Caucus about whether to impeach 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.400 the guy, how much to impeach him on and how 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.480 quick the trial should be. You know, look, I get 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:55.960 politics place, these are political branches, but at the end 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.919 of the day, with what's going on here and now, 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.320 it's no longer a question of political calculus. It's a 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:08.119 moral and legal and constitutional obligation of Congress to do this. 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:10.359 Well, mate, let's make the other I think it's a 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.600 I would be a violation of the oath of office 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:18.960 for a member of Congress not to push for impeachment 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:19.960 when it is possible. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:25.919 This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:28.760 by American Financing. Let's be honest, the math just isn't 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.640 adding up lately. Between the grocery store and those skyrocketing 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.440 insurance premiums, even with a steady job, more families are 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:37.159 being forced to rely on high interest credit cards to 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:40.040 cover expenses. So if you're a homeowner caught in this 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:43.399 cycle carrying balances with interest rates in the twenties, frankly 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:45.720