WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Tyler Smith Part 2 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:09.165 School of Humans. 0:00:11.685 --> 0:00:15.525 It was just before seven pm on September fifteenth, twenty eighteen, 0:00:16.005 --> 0:00:18.725 when a man, his wife, and their young child were 0:00:18.765 --> 0:00:23.325 passing by the train tracks in Gaylsburg, Illinois. They saw 0:00:23.365 --> 0:00:25.805 something that looked like a body lying in the creek 0:00:25.845 --> 0:00:39.845 bed of Cedar Fort Creek below. 0:00:34.085 --> 0:00:37.685 Jail for next year. I mean nine one was your emergency? Well, 0:00:37.765 --> 0:00:40.925 you know what we're walking, me and my wife and 0:00:41.645 --> 0:00:44.885 it is a body academy in faris and what did 0:00:44.925 --> 0:00:49.405 you find? I think there is a body I'm down 0:00:49.565 --> 0:00:53.805 in the creek? Yes it is okay? Can you tell 0:00:53.885 --> 0:00:55.125 us that the male or female? 0:00:55.885 --> 0:00:59.165 I mean, I can get it cool as by. I 0:00:59.165 --> 0:01:00.045 can't walk through it. 0:01:00.165 --> 0:01:06.285 Sold, if you feel comfortable and you're safe doing so? Yes, 0:01:07.085 --> 0:01:08.605 he can't take video? 0:01:10.685 --> 0:01:11.765 Okay? Hell about. 0:01:13.805 --> 0:01:15.645 Are you going down in the creek? 0:01:16.565 --> 0:01:17.125 No, I'm not. 0:01:17.205 --> 0:01:21.725 I'm just looking rome Okay, jumping time by the training clack. 0:01:22.405 --> 0:01:23.685 Is it a male or female? 0:01:24.045 --> 0:01:24.645 It's a male? 0:01:25.685 --> 0:01:29.045 Can you tell if he's breathing? I can't tell anything. 0:01:30.125 --> 0:01:33.245 I have to jump in don no, don't jump, and 0:01:33.325 --> 0:01:35.605 I have an officer coming to you. You can't. Can you 0:01:35.685 --> 0:01:37.285 holler at him and see if they'll move? 0:01:39.325 --> 0:01:39.525 Yeah? 0:01:39.605 --> 0:01:40.125 Sure sure. 0:01:42.605 --> 0:01:45.605 The body was identified as Tyler Smith, a twenty three 0:01:45.645 --> 0:01:48.805 year old graduate of Western Illinois University who had gone 0:01:48.845 --> 0:01:52.445 out drinking the night before September fourteenth with two friends 0:01:52.445 --> 0:01:56.645 from the Illinois National Guard, his friend Evan, and Evan's 0:01:56.685 --> 0:02:00.645 cousin Robbie. It was supposed to be one last celebration. 0:02:01.405 --> 0:02:03.925 Tyler had had his last drill the next morning, and 0:02:03.965 --> 0:02:06.685 then he was moving to San Jose, California, where he 0:02:06.725 --> 0:02:09.805 had been accepted into the police Academy. He was just 0:02:09.845 --> 0:02:12.925 two days away for leaving for his new life in California. 0:02:13.725 --> 0:02:16.885 His mother, Sandra Halsney, was planning on going to California 0:02:16.925 --> 0:02:19.605 with him to get him set up there, but they 0:02:19.685 --> 0:02:23.165 never got to take that road trip because something happened 0:02:23.165 --> 0:02:27.045 that night. Tyler got separated from his friends shortly after 0:02:27.085 --> 0:02:31.245 eleven PM and then got lost after wandering around for 0:02:31.285 --> 0:02:34.165 almost an hour. According to the health app data from 0:02:34.205 --> 0:02:37.565 the phone that was found in his jean's pocket, Tyler's 0:02:37.605 --> 0:02:41.805 strides got longer like he was running, then about two 0:02:41.885 --> 0:02:46.325 minutes after that, he stopped moving. Tyler's death was ruled 0:02:46.325 --> 0:02:50.285 a drowning after a thirty one minute autopsy, but his mother, 0:02:50.405 --> 0:02:54.965 Sandra had a lot of unanswered questions, including why did 0:02:55.005 --> 0:02:59.125 Tyler start running at eleven to fifty pm and was 0:02:59.165 --> 0:03:01.645 someone stalking him in that darkness. 0:03:02.205 --> 0:03:03.285 I'm Catherine Townsend. 0:03:03.565 --> 0:03:05.125 If you have a case you'd like me and my 0:03:05.165 --> 0:03:07.765 team look into, you can reach out to us at 0:03:07.765 --> 0:03:10.965 our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight seven 0:03:11.045 --> 0:03:14.805 four four six one four five. That's six seven eight 0:03:15.245 --> 0:03:19.565 seven four four six one four five. This is Helen 0:03:19.605 --> 0:03:57.365 Gone Murder Line. As we said last week, Tyler's mom, 0:03:57.485 --> 0:04:00.645 Sandra has been her son's greatest advocate. She's filed for 0:04:00.805 --> 0:04:04.005 a request and spent thousands of dollars and thousands of 0:04:04.085 --> 0:04:08.605 hours on his case. The day after he disappeared, Sandra 0:04:08.645 --> 0:04:11.525 could not reach her son. Then she got a text 0:04:11.525 --> 0:04:13.405 from Evan, one of the guys who was out with 0:04:13.445 --> 0:04:16.965 Tyler in September fourteenth, saying that Tyler had not come 0:04:16.965 --> 0:04:19.925 home and never showed up for formation. On the morning 0:04:19.925 --> 0:04:23.685 of the fifteenth, Sandra and Tyler's father, Keith made the 0:04:23.765 --> 0:04:27.125 drive to Gaelsburg. They found Tyler's car in the driveway 0:04:27.165 --> 0:04:32.285 of Evans House. Sandra found Tyler's suitcase inside Evans house packed. 0:04:32.325 --> 0:04:34.925 It looked like Tyler dropped it there without opening it, 0:04:35.365 --> 0:04:37.685 so his stuff was there, but there was no sign 0:04:37.685 --> 0:04:41.165 of Tyler. Sandra said that she did talk to Evan, 0:04:41.605 --> 0:04:45.125 but the guys were apparently not much help, but they 0:04:45.165 --> 0:04:48.325 were able to verify with police some of Tyler's movements. 0:04:48.365 --> 0:04:51.925 The night before, Tyler drove to his friend evans house. 0:04:52.205 --> 0:04:54.405 He arrived there at about six pm. He left his 0:04:54.485 --> 0:04:57.805 car parked on the street. Later, Evans's family told Sandra 0:04:57.805 --> 0:05:00.725 and Keith the car was illegally parked, so they moved 0:05:00.725 --> 0:05:05.365 it to the driveway. When Tyler and Evan left evans house, 0:05:05.565 --> 0:05:08.285 they went to Gailsburg. They ate at Buffalo Wild Wings. 0:05:08.685 --> 0:05:11.485 After that they went to the Cherry Street Bar. That's 0:05:11.525 --> 0:05:14.085 where they met up with Evan's cousin, Robbie. He had 0:05:14.165 --> 0:05:17.645 driven there separately in his truck, so just to clarify, 0:05:17.765 --> 0:05:22.005 they had two vehicles, Evan's car and Robbie's truck. Police 0:05:22.125 --> 0:05:25.845 pinged Tyler's cell phone. It gave a location zero point 0:05:25.885 --> 0:05:28.605 three four miles west of a tower at one hundred 0:05:28.685 --> 0:05:31.845 North Cherry Street, near the bars where the guys had 0:05:31.845 --> 0:05:35.445 been the night before. While at Cherry Street Bar the 0:05:35.525 --> 0:05:39.205 night before, Tyler had sent a couple of snapchats. One 0:05:39.325 --> 0:05:42.885 was captioned Gailsburg with Evan and them. The guys appeared 0:05:42.885 --> 0:05:45.205 to be having a great time. Nothing jumps out a 0:05:45.285 --> 0:05:49.125 sinister in any of these images. After leaving the Cherry 0:05:49.125 --> 0:05:53.165 Street bar, the guys went to the Wells Fargo ATM. Tyler, Evan, 0:05:53.245 --> 0:05:55.885 and Robbie all showed up on surveillance footage there at 0:05:55.885 --> 0:05:59.565 ten forty two. After leaving the ATM, they continued on 0:05:59.725 --> 0:06:02.765 to a bar called Corner Connection. There was live music 0:06:02.805 --> 0:06:06.245 that night until one am. Evan told Sandra they were 0:06:06.285 --> 0:06:09.525 all pretty intoxicated, and he said they can't really remember 0:06:09.565 --> 0:06:12.765 anything after that. They couldn't remember why they split up 0:06:13.085 --> 0:06:15.085 when the plan had been for Tyler to spend the 0:06:15.165 --> 0:06:16.085 night at Evans. 0:06:16.685 --> 0:06:18.245 So I want to look at the. 0:06:18.165 --> 0:06:21.245 Autopsy results, but first I want to dive into the timeline. 0:06:21.285 --> 0:06:24.205 I want to know what exactly happened between Tyler and 0:06:24.245 --> 0:06:27.285 his friends, Robbie and Evan, And is there any way 0:06:27.365 --> 0:06:30.765 considering they were all pretty intoxicated to retrace their steps. 0:06:31.685 --> 0:06:34.405 We know that at some point Tyler ended up with 0:06:34.445 --> 0:06:37.565 Evans keys because they were found the next day in 0:06:37.645 --> 0:06:38.885 Tyler's jeans pockets. 0:06:40.085 --> 0:06:41.525 When Sandra talked to Evan. 0:06:41.685 --> 0:06:44.245 He said he had given Tyler those keys because he 0:06:44.325 --> 0:06:47.525 didn't have pockets in his pants. When the police interviewed 0:06:47.605 --> 0:06:49.845 him a few months later, he said that he left 0:06:49.845 --> 0:06:52.365 Corner Connection, the last bar they were seen in. He 0:06:52.445 --> 0:06:54.645 said he had walked to the area where his car 0:06:54.725 --> 0:06:58.365 in Robbie's truck were parked, and at some point Robbie 0:06:58.365 --> 0:07:01.765 told Tyler to take Evans keys because he was way 0:07:01.765 --> 0:07:04.965 more drunk than Tyler. Now, last week, I said no 0:07:05.005 --> 0:07:07.125 one drove home, but apparently I was wrong about that. 0:07:07.485 --> 0:07:10.125 I assumed no one drove home because everyone was drunk 0:07:10.205 --> 0:07:13.685 and because Tyler had Evans keys. But I've learned not 0:07:13.765 --> 0:07:19.205 to assume anything. Because Evan walked home, Robbie drove. Robbie 0:07:19.205 --> 0:07:21.245 said that he remembered he got back to his truck 0:07:21.285 --> 0:07:24.165 at eleven thirty five. He remembers that because he looked 0:07:24.205 --> 0:07:26.205 at the clock when he got back to his vehicle. 0:07:27.245 --> 0:07:30.605 So another detail that's confusing in all this is who 0:07:30.645 --> 0:07:33.725 was last seen with Tyler. Was it Evan or Robbie 0:07:33.845 --> 0:07:37.405 or someone else. Robbie said the last time that he 0:07:37.525 --> 0:07:40.165 saw Evan and Tyler, they were walking to Evan's car. 0:07:40.365 --> 0:07:42.405 He said that he left and went to his truck, 0:07:43.245 --> 0:07:46.885 but we know Evan walked home alone. Remember, his car 0:07:46.965 --> 0:07:51.645 and house keys were in Tyler's pockets. When Evan got home, 0:07:51.725 --> 0:07:54.885 he apparently realized that he didn't have his keys. Both 0:07:54.925 --> 0:07:57.405 his house and car keys were on the same key ring, 0:07:57.485 --> 0:08:00.085 and those were the keys that were in Tyler's jeans, 0:08:00.565 --> 0:08:02.405 So he had to knock on the door really loudly 0:08:02.485 --> 0:08:05.845 so that his mom would let him in. Now, Evan's 0:08:05.845 --> 0:08:08.245 mother later said that at that time, Evan told her 0:08:08.445 --> 0:08:10.925 Tyler was with Robbie, and then Evan went to bed. 0:08:12.125 --> 0:08:14.485 Evan's mom told Sanders she stayed up for a while 0:08:14.565 --> 0:08:17.645 until around two am, waiting for Tyler, but he never 0:08:17.685 --> 0:08:21.685 made it back home. So back to the night before, 0:08:22.205 --> 0:08:24.605 the three friends are having a good time drinking, etc. 0:08:24.965 --> 0:08:26.805 They go to an atm for an unknown reason at 0:08:26.845 --> 0:08:29.845 ten forty two. We can see in that surveillance footage 0:08:29.925 --> 0:08:32.685 that Tyler already had money on his money clip, yet 0:08:32.725 --> 0:08:35.365 he took out one hundred dollars and remember he only 0:08:35.405 --> 0:08:37.765 had seventy two dollars on him when his body was found. 0:08:38.445 --> 0:08:40.805 The guys stop at a bar called Corner Connection for 0:08:40.845 --> 0:08:44.165 one last round. They all leave together, but at some 0:08:44.285 --> 0:08:47.245 point they split up. Robbie walks to his car, Evan 0:08:47.285 --> 0:08:52.245 walks home. Tyler starts wandering around, lost and confused. He 0:08:52.285 --> 0:08:55.845 starts making calls. At eleven oh five, he calls another 0:08:55.885 --> 0:08:57.645 friend of his name Onie, to see if he can 0:08:57.645 --> 0:09:00.845 stay at his place. Apparently he didn't realize that that 0:09:00.925 --> 0:09:02.685 friend actually live forty minutes away. 0:09:03.365 --> 0:09:04.245 This is Onie. 0:09:05.525 --> 0:09:07.845 Remember the order of events for the text and the 0:09:07.845 --> 0:09:10.645 call we did call. I think either he tried to 0:09:10.685 --> 0:09:14.125 call me or something, but I heard him on the phone, 0:09:15.045 --> 0:09:17.165 and all I remember, this is what I've told Sandy 0:09:17.245 --> 0:09:19.445 and told everybody else, is I feel like he was 0:09:19.605 --> 0:09:22.165 like running, but not in like a scared way, like 0:09:22.205 --> 0:09:24.125 in a fun like he was pooping around like he 0:09:24.565 --> 0:09:27.325 like I don't know, like like think he just threw 0:09:27.365 --> 0:09:29.805 a snowball at your buddy's house or you did ding dung, bitch, 0:09:30.045 --> 0:09:32.325 and he was running obey like ha ha, I just 0:09:32.685 --> 0:09:34.925 pulled a frank on somebody. That's kind of what the 0:09:35.045 --> 0:09:38.565 video or the audio sounded like when he butted out 0:09:38.645 --> 0:09:41.445 me or whatever he did and I and I heard him, 0:09:41.445 --> 0:09:43.885 so I tried to call him back, I think, and 0:09:44.445 --> 0:09:46.125 didn't hear from him. 0:09:46.685 --> 0:09:49.885 So, according to Onnie Tyler kept chatting. He seemed calm 0:09:49.925 --> 0:09:51.885 and happy, even though he seemed to have no idea 0:09:51.925 --> 0:09:55.205 where he was. But then at around eleven fifty, after 0:09:55.245 --> 0:09:58.805 he lost contact with Onie, something changed dramatically. 0:10:00.005 --> 0:10:02.445 I remember seeing I think some of those stories come 0:10:02.485 --> 0:10:07.205 out and like his spirits in me, I wanted to say, 0:10:07.245 --> 0:10:08.605 and I don't know about I'm thinking of this because 0:10:08.605 --> 0:10:10.725 of a story that I saw that maybe somebody saw 0:10:10.805 --> 0:10:13.605 him earlier in the night and saw an opportunity to 0:10:13.645 --> 0:10:18.845 take advantage and beat up a black guy, or maybe 0:10:19.125 --> 0:10:22.925 he just ran into the wrong person, because I think 0:10:23.685 --> 0:10:26.805 around that time period, whenever he was running, and I 0:10:27.205 --> 0:10:29.405 think and I thought that he called me. I think 0:10:29.565 --> 0:10:32.165 was I don't know if he was running from somebody, 0:10:32.645 --> 0:10:35.245 because I remember standy or somebody was asking me. I 0:10:35.285 --> 0:10:37.325 don't know if he's the investigator. Did it sound like 0:10:37.325 --> 0:10:39.605 he was running from someone? Did he sound like he 0:10:39.645 --> 0:10:42.005 was scared? And he didn't sound like he was scared, 0:10:42.285 --> 0:10:43.885 And I couldn't hear anybody else. 0:10:44.365 --> 0:10:47.565 It just sounded like he was running playfully. 0:10:47.325 --> 0:10:50.725 I just I don't know if you remember. 0:10:50.485 --> 0:10:53.645 From last week we talked about the step analysis from 0:10:53.725 --> 0:10:56.005 the health app on Tyler's phone. That was done by 0:10:56.005 --> 0:10:59.485 Mitchell Drake, the retired detective who was helping Sandra months 0:10:59.525 --> 0:11:04.445 after Tyler's death. According to this analysis, something made Tyler 0:11:04.525 --> 0:11:08.645 start running around eleven fifty then at eleven fifty two 0:11:08.925 --> 0:11:13.565 there was no more movement. The next time anyone saw 0:11:13.645 --> 0:11:15.805 Tyler was at the bottom of that creek bed. 0:11:15.805 --> 0:11:18.605 The next day. Here's Tyler's mother, Sandra. 0:11:19.885 --> 0:11:21.805 Someone had called nine one when I saw his body, 0:11:23.205 --> 0:11:25.645 and it kind of freaked like I think of it's 0:11:25.685 --> 0:11:28.005 not a It's like to me where I'm from, a 0:11:28.005 --> 0:11:30.685 creek is like a small river, you know, this is 0:11:31.005 --> 0:11:33.925 this is a concrete canal. He was seventeen feet down 0:11:33.965 --> 0:11:35.925 with the speed up against the walls, arms down at 0:11:35.965 --> 0:11:36.645 his side. 0:11:37.565 --> 0:11:41.205 The position of the body bothered Sandra and later Mitchell Drake, 0:11:41.245 --> 0:11:44.405 the investigator who came into help. They thought it was 0:11:44.565 --> 0:11:47.485 very unlikely that Tyler had walked down there because the 0:11:47.485 --> 0:11:50.005 nearest access point to get there on foot was about 0:11:50.005 --> 0:11:53.485 one hundred and fifty feet away. Tyler's shoes were clean 0:11:53.605 --> 0:11:55.805 and white. They did not look like they had been 0:11:55.885 --> 0:11:59.645 walking through that mud. Tyler was lying face down with 0:11:59.725 --> 0:12:03.045 his palms facing up and his feet very close to 0:12:03.085 --> 0:12:07.205 the wall. It seemed like an impossi position to fall from, 0:12:07.725 --> 0:12:10.365 because Sandra and everyone else wondered why if it was 0:12:10.405 --> 0:12:14.045 an accident, like the police apparently believed, why Tyler didn't 0:12:14.085 --> 0:12:16.885 try to break his fall some way. The only way 0:12:16.965 --> 0:12:20.085 that Tyler's body could have fallen that way, Sandra believes, 0:12:20.405 --> 0:12:24.925 is if he was unconscious. So the most likely conclusion 0:12:25.285 --> 0:12:27.965 is that Tyler either fell or he was pushed or 0:12:28.005 --> 0:12:32.525 thrown from above. The next question is did Tyler's body 0:12:32.605 --> 0:12:35.605 fall to where he was found or did someone do 0:12:35.725 --> 0:12:38.005 something to him somewhere else and then drag it down 0:12:38.005 --> 0:12:41.165 there or somehow move it. Afterwards, Sandra goes on to 0:12:41.205 --> 0:12:43.805 say she believes that the crime scene could. 0:12:43.525 --> 0:12:44.205 Have been staged. 0:12:44.685 --> 0:12:47.485 She talks about pieces of evidence, including the beer can, 0:12:47.805 --> 0:12:50.405 the one that was lying very close to Tyler, the 0:12:50.445 --> 0:12:53.485 one that police did not test for fingerprints and threw away. 0:12:54.685 --> 0:12:57.285 She said the beer can didn't fall down there with 0:12:57.365 --> 0:13:00.445 Tyler because he's seen on video minutes before, and he 0:13:00.485 --> 0:13:03.765 doesn't have a beer can in his hand in that footage. 0:13:03.885 --> 0:13:07.165 And there was being the true placed next to him 0:13:07.165 --> 0:13:10.085 like a beer can, which I have a video from walking. 0:13:10.165 --> 0:13:12.125 He doesn't have a beer can just four minutes before 0:13:12.165 --> 0:13:15.405 he steps moving, according to his health up on his phone. 0:13:15.565 --> 0:13:17.925 I mean, I've done a lot to find out what's 0:13:17.965 --> 0:13:19.765 happened to Tyler. I have a timeline. 0:13:20.445 --> 0:13:22.965 Dragging a body from the point where the creek bed 0:13:23.005 --> 0:13:25.845 could be accessed on foot seems unlikely. And as we 0:13:25.845 --> 0:13:30.085 said before, Tyler's shoes are very clean. And then after 0:13:30.125 --> 0:13:33.925 an autopsy that was only thirty one minutes long, Tyler's 0:13:33.965 --> 0:13:38.405 cause of death was ruled as drowning. Now, the length 0:13:38.405 --> 0:13:42.405 of autopsy time does vary, but the average autopsy takes 0:13:42.405 --> 0:13:46.005 a lot longer than thirty one minutes. And again, all deaths, 0:13:46.165 --> 0:13:49.005 especially those of a young, healthy person with no known 0:13:49.085 --> 0:13:54.485 medical issues, should be investigated as homicides until proven otherwise. Outraged, 0:13:54.885 --> 0:13:57.885 Sandra asked how the IMME had come to that conclusion. 0:13:58.525 --> 0:14:02.125 Their results were so unbelievable to her that she demanded 0:14:02.205 --> 0:14:09.325 a second autopsy. So one of the most common questions 0:14:09.325 --> 0:14:12.325 I'm asked is how you go about getting a second autopsy, 0:14:12.805 --> 0:14:15.965 And the answer how to get a second opinion or 0:14:16.005 --> 0:14:19.045 a second autopsy, and also who pays for it can 0:14:19.085 --> 0:14:20.205 be very complicated. 0:14:20.845 --> 0:14:21.085 To me. 0:14:21.245 --> 0:14:24.285 The issues go way beyond Tyler Smith's case, because a 0:14:24.325 --> 0:14:27.325 lot of people unfortunately have this happen to them. What 0:14:27.525 --> 0:14:30.565 do you do when no one, including the authorities, can 0:14:30.605 --> 0:14:34.205 agree on what actually happened to your loved one. People 0:14:34.205 --> 0:14:37.085 interested in a second autopsy would normally ask first for 0:14:37.165 --> 0:14:40.125 something called a medical record review. This is according by 0:14:40.125 --> 0:14:42.845 the way, to the National Institutes of Health. A couple 0:14:42.845 --> 0:14:45.005 of weeks ago, we did an interview on this podcast 0:14:45.085 --> 0:14:48.685 with a company that does provide second opinions on death investigations. 0:14:49.085 --> 0:14:51.125 There are a lot of companies out there like this, 0:14:51.645 --> 0:14:54.525 so I think step one is basically submitting a freedom 0:14:54.525 --> 0:14:57.925 of information request. There are templates online you can use 0:14:57.965 --> 0:15:00.605 depending on what state you're in. We talk about FOYER 0:15:00.645 --> 0:15:03.325 requests a lot, but I just want to say this, 0:15:03.365 --> 0:15:05.365 I think it's something we should all learn how to do, 0:15:05.845 --> 0:15:07.925 how to use, because you don't want to be learning 0:15:08.165 --> 0:15:10.805 when you're in shock after something like this happens to 0:15:10.885 --> 0:15:13.925 you or someone you know. If the case is an 0:15:13.925 --> 0:15:16.525 open investigation, you may not get much back from your 0:15:16.565 --> 0:15:19.405 FOY request, but depending on what state you're in, if 0:15:19.445 --> 0:15:22.485 you're a family member, you probably can get the autopsy 0:15:22.525 --> 0:15:26.685 report then for a few hundred dollars. Usually the person 0:15:26.685 --> 0:15:29.125 who reviews the records. If you do go for a 0:15:29.165 --> 0:15:32.565 company that gives second opinions, can give you an opinion 0:15:32.645 --> 0:15:35.005 on whether a second autopsy would be a good idea. 0:15:36.325 --> 0:15:39.125 After that, if the person who reviews the case says yes, 0:15:39.245 --> 0:15:41.965 a second autopsy would be a good idea, You've then 0:15:42.005 --> 0:15:45.205 got to figure out who's paying for it. And second 0:15:45.245 --> 0:15:48.965 autopsies can be very expensive, several thousand dollars. I've even 0:15:49.005 --> 0:15:51.685 heard quotes of up to ten thousand dollars, plus you 0:15:51.725 --> 0:15:52.525 have the cost. 0:15:52.245 --> 0:15:53.885 Of exhuming the body. 0:15:53.965 --> 0:15:58.045 In Tyler's case, Sandra was working with Mitchell Drake, and 0:15:58.165 --> 0:16:01.285 because Mitchell Drake was a retired police detective with years 0:16:01.285 --> 0:16:05.845 of experience investigating homicides, when he pointed out mistakes and 0:16:05.885 --> 0:16:10.045 oversights in the investigation, he seemed to have the respect 0:16:10.085 --> 0:16:12.885 of law enforcement. So they actually got the coroner to 0:16:12.965 --> 0:16:17.005 agree to his second autopsy, and so the county paid 0:16:17.045 --> 0:16:20.685 to have Tyler's body exoomed. But sadly, there were some 0:16:20.845 --> 0:16:23.525 pieces of evidence they could never get back because the 0:16:23.525 --> 0:16:27.405 police had not, for example, checked for DNA under Tyler's fingernails, 0:16:27.925 --> 0:16:31.525 and Sandra was devastated to learn all of his clothes 0:16:31.645 --> 0:16:34.485 had been thrown away. Sandra talked to us about this, 0:16:34.925 --> 0:16:38.165 and again, this is something so many people are dealing with. 0:16:38.205 --> 0:16:40.885 The exorbitant costs she had to pay just to get 0:16:40.925 --> 0:16:45.285 access to her son's own records. She estimated she spent 0:16:45.365 --> 0:16:48.645 over five thousand dollars and that's even with the county 0:16:48.645 --> 0:16:50.205 covering the second autopsy cost. 0:16:51.205 --> 0:16:52.725 Imagine not being. 0:16:52.565 --> 0:16:55.725 Able to access a copy of your own child's autopsy 0:16:55.765 --> 0:16:57.765 report because you can't afford the fees. 0:16:58.845 --> 0:17:01.925 So basically, Tyler went for his second autopsy, he got 0:17:01.965 --> 0:17:03.885 it zoomed. I guess his body was in good condition. 0:17:04.965 --> 0:17:07.845 Unlike the first autopsy that lasted only thirty one minutes, 0:17:08.325 --> 0:17:12.565 Tyler's second autopsy lasted more than four hours. The pathologists 0:17:12.565 --> 0:17:15.685 found a completely different cause of death and a lot 0:17:15.725 --> 0:17:19.165 of injuries that were not reported on the first autopsy. 0:17:19.285 --> 0:17:23.205 The pathologists concluded that Tyler did not die from drowning. 0:17:23.805 --> 0:17:28.245 In fact, they concluded that Tyler had died of injuries related. 0:17:27.885 --> 0:17:28.365 To the fall. 0:17:28.805 --> 0:17:32.605 But a fall on a chokehold are two things that 0:17:32.645 --> 0:17:35.005 he said. You know, a fall could cause that, But 0:17:35.125 --> 0:17:37.325 Tyler isn't laying in a position of a fall, like 0:17:37.365 --> 0:17:39.845 he didn't even try to catch himself. Like his hanger 0:17:39.925 --> 0:17:42.005 up against the wall, Like there's no way he fell 0:17:42.085 --> 0:17:44.845 straight down and landed in that position. You know, he 0:17:44.845 --> 0:17:47.525 would have been like in a fetal position, trying to help, 0:17:47.565 --> 0:17:49.765 you know what I mean, like trying to catch himself 0:17:49.845 --> 0:17:53.485 or something. And there were no drugs in a system. 0:17:53.645 --> 0:17:56.365 His thought alcohol was zero point two four, which is 0:17:57.685 --> 0:18:00.045 like three times a leag a lemon or something. But 0:18:00.125 --> 0:18:01.885 we also have to remember this as a twenty three 0:18:01.925 --> 0:18:03.765 year old kid who had just finished a four year 0:18:04.005 --> 0:18:07.205 university drinking or you know what I mean, Like if 0:18:07.245 --> 0:18:09.885 you haven't, Like they're like, oh, your son was you know, 0:18:10.565 --> 0:18:13.005 black got drunk. I'm like, no, he wasn't, you know 0:18:13.045 --> 0:18:14.405 what I mean, Like I don't believe that. 0:18:14.565 --> 0:18:14.725 Yeah. 0:18:16.445 --> 0:18:19.125 Sandra says that she has a hard time believing this 0:18:19.525 --> 0:18:21.645 because she said that her son was a big guy 0:18:21.685 --> 0:18:24.885 and could handle alcohol. But as we all know, it's 0:18:25.045 --> 0:18:28.645 very possible to miscalculate, to have one too many, and 0:18:28.685 --> 0:18:32.845 to become confused, especially in a strange area. Tyler's friend 0:18:32.925 --> 0:18:35.325 Oni also said that Tyler was not the type to 0:18:35.405 --> 0:18:38.245 let himself get out of control or to drink excessively. 0:18:39.365 --> 0:18:42.485 He was smart about his drinking, so for him to 0:18:43.045 --> 0:18:47.045 get three times the legal limit in a town that 0:18:47.125 --> 0:18:53.005 he wasn't familiar with, with people that he really didn't 0:18:53.045 --> 0:18:58.805 know well, didn't really sound like him, didn't. 0:18:58.605 --> 0:19:00.725 Really sound like him. But I'd like to think that 0:19:00.765 --> 0:19:04.445 he knew Hillier well enough, because honestly, if it were 0:19:04.565 --> 0:19:08.245 me and I was in Tyler's shoes, I don't think 0:19:08.245 --> 0:19:12.565 I would I would have gotten as intoxicated as that. 0:19:13.685 --> 0:19:15.725 But I don't know what the context of what they 0:19:15.725 --> 0:19:18.445 were doing, if they were playing games, if they were 0:19:18.765 --> 0:19:20.485 what they were doing exactly from what I remember, they 0:19:20.485 --> 0:19:23.565 went out to a bar, and Tyler wasn't really the 0:19:23.645 --> 0:19:28.165 type to go out to a bar already very drunk, 0:19:29.725 --> 0:19:32.485 So that when I when I heard that they were 0:19:32.525 --> 0:19:35.725 at a bar and he was really drunk already, that. 0:19:35.765 --> 0:19:36.325 Kind of. 0:19:37.685 --> 0:19:37.965 It did. 0:19:38.125 --> 0:19:41.845 I don't know. It just didn't seem like he'd be 0:19:42.005 --> 0:19:44.685 drinking that much at the bar to get that drunk, 0:19:44.685 --> 0:19:47.205 because obviously it's expensive too, and Tyler was not the 0:19:47.245 --> 0:19:48.045 type to spend a. 0:19:47.965 --> 0:19:50.765 Lot of money at the bar, which is why he 0:19:50.765 --> 0:19:53.085 said he was so surprised when he heard what happened. 0:19:53.565 --> 0:19:55.725 But he said the same thing that I've been thinking 0:19:55.765 --> 0:19:58.645 all along. This story is so relatable. We have all 0:19:58.685 --> 0:20:00.245 had moments and we're vulnerable. 0:20:00.525 --> 0:20:03.805 That's hard to say, only because I've been in that 0:20:03.845 --> 0:20:09.365 position where I've been there intoxicated, and I almost turned 0:20:09.365 --> 0:20:12.525 into a different person as far as some of the 0:20:12.565 --> 0:20:14.725 things I do, some of the things I stay. So 0:20:15.205 --> 0:20:19.405 I wouldn't put it past Tyler to be so intoxicated 0:20:19.405 --> 0:20:21.685 that he wanted to stay out and have a good time. 0:20:22.005 --> 0:20:24.925 When you're that intoxicate, you really don't know up from down. 0:20:24.965 --> 0:20:25.445 You don't know. 0:20:25.605 --> 0:20:28.285 You don't have no self awareness, you know, when you're 0:20:28.325 --> 0:20:30.365 past a certain point, you just you just don't know. 0:20:30.685 --> 0:20:33.445 I'm told you hear the stories the next day. But 0:20:33.765 --> 0:20:36.765 if I'm being one hundred percent honest, I wouldn't. It 0:20:36.805 --> 0:20:40.205 does not surprise me that he wanted to stay out drinking. 0:20:40.405 --> 0:20:44.365 If he was less intoxicated and at a point where 0:20:44.405 --> 0:20:47.885 he could still I think maybe logically and remember the 0:20:48.005 --> 0:20:50.205 night before and form his own opinion and decision, I 0:20:50.245 --> 0:20:52.165 think you would have recognized, ya, I need to go home. 0:20:52.325 --> 0:20:54.285 But I think he was just passed that point, and 0:20:54.405 --> 0:20:57.685 it might have something to do with the drug or 0:20:57.685 --> 0:21:01.365 whatever that was found in his system. 0:21:01.445 --> 0:21:04.845 So the second autopsy found that Tyler died due to 0:21:04.885 --> 0:21:08.725 injuries stained in a fall. Some of his injuries, like 0:21:08.765 --> 0:21:11.565 the fact that Tyler bit through his tongue, could be 0:21:11.645 --> 0:21:14.885 potentially explained by landing the way that he did, face 0:21:14.965 --> 0:21:18.885 down on concrete. Others, according to the second pathologist, could 0:21:18.885 --> 0:21:22.685 not be explained, including bruising and blood from his nose 0:21:22.725 --> 0:21:26.045 that was pulled, which could indicate he was bleeding before death, 0:21:26.285 --> 0:21:30.005 not after. Sandra also wondered again about the positions of 0:21:30.045 --> 0:21:32.205 his arms straight behind him, palms up. 0:21:32.685 --> 0:21:34.005 She wondered if he could have. 0:21:33.925 --> 0:21:37.645 Been restrained by handcuffs or something else. This, plus the 0:21:37.645 --> 0:21:40.325 position of his feet so close to the wall, made 0:21:40.365 --> 0:21:42.565 it look like he was either dropped down where he 0:21:42.645 --> 0:21:47.205