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Speaker 1: School of Humans.

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Speaker 2: It was just before seven pm on September fifteenth, twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 2: when a man, his wife, and their young child were

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Speaker 2: passing by the train tracks in Gaylsburg, Illinois. They saw

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Speaker 2: something that looked like a body lying in the creek

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Speaker 2: bed of Cedar Fort Creek below.

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Speaker 3: Jail for next year. I mean nine one was your emergency? Well,

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Speaker 3: you know what we're walking, me and my wife and

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Speaker 3: it is a body academy in faris and what did

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Speaker 3: you find? I think there is a body I'm down

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Speaker 3: in the creek? Yes it is okay? Can you tell

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Speaker 3: us that the male or female?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I can get it cool as by. I

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Speaker 4: can't walk through it.

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Speaker 3: Sold, if you feel comfortable and you're safe doing so? Yes,

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Speaker 3: he can't take video?

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Speaker 5: Okay? Hell about.

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Speaker 3: Are you going down in the creek?

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Speaker 2: No, I'm not.

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Speaker 3: I'm just looking rome Okay, jumping time by the training clack.

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Speaker 3: Is it a male or female?

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Speaker 6: It's a male?

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Speaker 3: Can you tell if he's breathing? I can't tell anything.

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Speaker 3: I have to jump in don no, don't jump, and

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Speaker 3: I have an officer coming to you. You can't. Can you

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Speaker 3: holler at him and see if they'll move?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Sure sure.

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Speaker 2: The body was identified as Tyler Smith, a twenty three

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Speaker 2: year old graduate of Western Illinois University who had gone

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Speaker 2: out drinking the night before September fourteenth with two friends

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Speaker 2: from the Illinois National Guard, his friend Evan, and Evan's

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Speaker 2: cousin Robbie. It was supposed to be one last celebration.

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Speaker 2: Tyler had had his last drill the next morning, and

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Speaker 2: then he was moving to San Jose, California, where he

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Speaker 2: had been accepted into the police Academy. He was just

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Speaker 2: two days away for leaving for his new life in California.

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Speaker 2: His mother, Sandra Halsney, was planning on going to California

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Speaker 2: with him to get him set up there, but they

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Speaker 2: never got to take that road trip because something happened

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Speaker 2: that night. Tyler got separated from his friends shortly after

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Speaker 2: eleven PM and then got lost after wandering around for

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Speaker 2: almost an hour. According to the health app data from

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Speaker 2: the phone that was found in his jean's pocket, Tyler's

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Speaker 2: strides got longer like he was running, then about two

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Speaker 2: minutes after that, he stopped moving. Tyler's death was ruled

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Speaker 2: a drowning after a thirty one minute autopsy, but his mother,

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Speaker 2: Sandra had a lot of unanswered questions, including why did

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Speaker 2: Tyler start running at eleven to fifty pm and was

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Speaker 2: someone stalking him in that darkness.

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Speaker 1: I'm Catherine Townsend.

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Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my

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Speaker 2: team look into, you can reach out to us at

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Speaker 2: our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight seven

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Speaker 2: four four six one four five. That's six seven eight

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Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five. This is Helen

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Speaker 2: Gone Murder Line. As we said last week, Tyler's mom,

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Speaker 2: Sandra has been her son's greatest advocate. She's filed for

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Speaker 2: a request and spent thousands of dollars and thousands of

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Speaker 2: hours on his case. The day after he disappeared, Sandra

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Speaker 2: could not reach her son. Then she got a text

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Speaker 2: from Evan, one of the guys who was out with

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Speaker 2: Tyler in September fourteenth, saying that Tyler had not come

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Speaker 2: home and never showed up for formation. On the morning

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Speaker 2: of the fifteenth, Sandra and Tyler's father, Keith made the

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Speaker 2: drive to Gaelsburg. They found Tyler's car in the driveway

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Speaker 2: of Evans House. Sandra found Tyler's suitcase inside Evans house packed.

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Speaker 2: It looked like Tyler dropped it there without opening it,

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Speaker 2: so his stuff was there, but there was no sign

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Speaker 2: of Tyler. Sandra said that she did talk to Evan,

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Speaker 2: but the guys were apparently not much help, but they

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Speaker 2: were able to verify with police some of Tyler's movements.

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Speaker 2: The night before, Tyler drove to his friend evans house.

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Speaker 2: He arrived there at about six pm. He left his

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Speaker 2: car parked on the street. Later, Evans's family told Sandra

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Speaker 2: and Keith the car was illegally parked, so they moved

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Speaker 2: it to the driveway. When Tyler and Evan left evans house,

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Speaker 2: they went to Gailsburg. They ate at Buffalo Wild Wings.

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Speaker 2: After that they went to the Cherry Street Bar. That's

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Speaker 2: where they met up with Evan's cousin, Robbie. He had

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Speaker 2: driven there separately in his truck, so just to clarify,

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Speaker 2: they had two vehicles, Evan's car and Robbie's truck. Police

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Speaker 2: pinged Tyler's cell phone. It gave a location zero point

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Speaker 2: three four miles west of a tower at one hundred

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Speaker 2: North Cherry Street, near the bars where the guys had

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Speaker 2: been the night before. While at Cherry Street Bar the

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Speaker 2: night before, Tyler had sent a couple of snapchats. One

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Speaker 2: was captioned Gailsburg with Evan and them. The guys appeared

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Speaker 2: to be having a great time. Nothing jumps out a

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Speaker 2: sinister in any of these images. After leaving the Cherry

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Speaker 2: Street bar, the guys went to the Wells Fargo ATM. Tyler, Evan,

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Speaker 2: and Robbie all showed up on surveillance footage there at

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Speaker 2: ten forty two. After leaving the ATM, they continued on

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Speaker 2: to a bar called Corner Connection. There was live music

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Speaker 2: that night until one am. Evan told Sandra they were

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Speaker 2: all pretty intoxicated, and he said they can't really remember

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Speaker 2: anything after that. They couldn't remember why they split up

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Speaker 2: when the plan had been for Tyler to spend the

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Speaker 2: night at Evans.

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Speaker 1: So I want to look at the.

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Speaker 2: Autopsy results, but first I want to dive into the timeline.

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Speaker 2: I want to know what exactly happened between Tyler and

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Speaker 2: his friends, Robbie and Evan, And is there any way

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Speaker 2: considering they were all pretty intoxicated to retrace their steps.

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Speaker 2: We know that at some point Tyler ended up with

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Speaker 2: Evans keys because they were found the next day in

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Speaker 2: Tyler's jeans pockets.

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Speaker 1: When Sandra talked to Evan.

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Speaker 2: He said he had given Tyler those keys because he

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Speaker 2: didn't have pockets in his pants. When the police interviewed

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Speaker 2: him a few months later, he said that he left

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Speaker 2: Corner Connection, the last bar they were seen in. He

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Speaker 2: said he had walked to the area where his car

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Speaker 2: in Robbie's truck were parked, and at some point Robbie

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Speaker 2: told Tyler to take Evans keys because he was way

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Speaker 2: more drunk than Tyler. Now, last week, I said no

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Speaker 2: one drove home, but apparently I was wrong about that.

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Speaker 2: I assumed no one drove home because everyone was drunk

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Speaker 2: and because Tyler had Evans keys. But I've learned not

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Speaker 2: to assume anything. Because Evan walked home, Robbie drove. Robbie

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Speaker 2: said that he remembered he got back to his truck

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Speaker 2: at eleven thirty five. He remembers that because he looked

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Speaker 2: at the clock when he got back to his vehicle.

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Speaker 2: So another detail that's confusing in all this is who

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Speaker 2: was last seen with Tyler. Was it Evan or Robbie

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Speaker 2: or someone else. Robbie said the last time that he

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Speaker 2: saw Evan and Tyler, they were walking to Evan's car.

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Speaker 2: He said that he left and went to his truck,

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Speaker 2: but we know Evan walked home alone. Remember, his car

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Speaker 2: and house keys were in Tyler's pockets. When Evan got home,

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Speaker 2: he apparently realized that he didn't have his keys. Both

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Speaker 2: his house and car keys were on the same key ring,

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Speaker 2: and those were the keys that were in Tyler's jeans,

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Speaker 2: So he had to knock on the door really loudly

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Speaker 2: so that his mom would let him in. Now, Evan's

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Speaker 2: mother later said that at that time, Evan told her

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Speaker 2: Tyler was with Robbie, and then Evan went to bed.

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Speaker 2: Evan's mom told Sanders she stayed up for a while

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Speaker 2: until around two am, waiting for Tyler, but he never

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Speaker 2: made it back home. So back to the night before,

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Speaker 2: the three friends are having a good time drinking, etc.

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Speaker 2: They go to an atm for an unknown reason at

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Speaker 2: ten forty two. We can see in that surveillance footage

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Speaker 2: that Tyler already had money on his money clip, yet

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Speaker 2: he took out one hundred dollars and remember he only

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Speaker 2: had seventy two dollars on him when his body was found.

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Speaker 2: The guys stop at a bar called Corner Connection for

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Speaker 2: one last round. They all leave together, but at some

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Speaker 2: point they split up. Robbie walks to his car, Evan

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Speaker 2: walks home. Tyler starts wandering around, lost and confused. He

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Speaker 2: starts making calls. At eleven oh five, he calls another

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Speaker 2: friend of his name Onie, to see if he can

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Speaker 2: stay at his place. Apparently he didn't realize that that

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Speaker 2: friend actually live forty minutes away.

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Speaker 1: This is Onie.

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Speaker 4: Remember the order of events for the text and the

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Speaker 4: call we did call. I think either he tried to

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Speaker 4: call me or something, but I heard him on the phone,

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Speaker 4: and all I remember, this is what I've told Sandy

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Speaker 4: and told everybody else, is I feel like he was

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Speaker 4: like running, but not in like a scared way, like

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Speaker 4: in a fun like he was pooping around like he

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Speaker 4: like I don't know, like like think he just threw

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Speaker 4: a snowball at your buddy's house or you did ding dung, bitch,

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Speaker 4: and he was running obey like ha ha, I just

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Speaker 4: pulled a frank on somebody. That's kind of what the

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Speaker 4: video or the audio sounded like when he butted out

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Speaker 4: me or whatever he did and I and I heard him,

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Speaker 4: so I tried to call him back, I think, and

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Speaker 4: didn't hear from him.

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Speaker 2: So, according to Onnie Tyler kept chatting. He seemed calm

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Speaker 2: and happy, even though he seemed to have no idea

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Speaker 2: where he was. But then at around eleven fifty, after

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Speaker 2: he lost contact with Onie, something changed dramatically.

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Speaker 6: I remember seeing I think some of those stories come

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Speaker 6: out and like his spirits in me, I wanted to say,

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Speaker 6: and I don't know about I'm thinking of this because

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Speaker 6: of a story that I saw that maybe somebody saw

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Speaker 6: him earlier in the night and saw an opportunity to

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Speaker 6: take advantage and beat up a black guy, or maybe

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Speaker 6: he just ran into the wrong person, because I think

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Speaker 6: around that time period, whenever he was running, and I

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Speaker 6: think and I thought that he called me. I think

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Speaker 6: was I don't know if he was running from somebody,

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Speaker 6: because I remember standy or somebody was asking me. I

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Speaker 6: don't know if he's the investigator. Did it sound like

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Speaker 6: he was running from someone? Did he sound like he

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Speaker 6: was scared? And he didn't sound like he was scared,

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Speaker 6: And I couldn't hear anybody else.

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Speaker 7: It just sounded like he was running playfully.

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Speaker 1: I just I don't know if you remember.

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Speaker 2: From last week we talked about the step analysis from

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Speaker 2: the health app on Tyler's phone. That was done by

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Speaker 2: Mitchell Drake, the retired detective who was helping Sandra months

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Speaker 2: after Tyler's death. According to this analysis, something made Tyler

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Speaker 2: start running around eleven fifty then at eleven fifty two

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Speaker 2: there was no more movement. The next time anyone saw

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Speaker 2: Tyler was at the bottom of that creek bed.

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Speaker 1: The next day. Here's Tyler's mother, Sandra.

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Speaker 8: Someone had called nine one when I saw his body,

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Speaker 8: and it kind of freaked like I think of it's

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Speaker 8: not a It's like to me where I'm from, a

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Speaker 8: creek is like a small river, you know, this is

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Speaker 8: this is a concrete canal. He was seventeen feet down

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Speaker 8: with the speed up against the walls, arms down at

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Speaker 8: his side.

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Speaker 2: The position of the body bothered Sandra and later Mitchell Drake,

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Speaker 2: the investigator who came into help. They thought it was

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Speaker 2: very unlikely that Tyler had walked down there because the

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Speaker 2: nearest access point to get there on foot was about

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty feet away. Tyler's shoes were clean

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Speaker 2: and white. They did not look like they had been

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Speaker 2: walking through that mud. Tyler was lying face down with

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Speaker 2: his palms facing up and his feet very close to

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Speaker 2: the wall. It seemed like an impossi position to fall from,

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Speaker 2: because Sandra and everyone else wondered why if it was

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Speaker 2: an accident, like the police apparently believed, why Tyler didn't

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Speaker 2: try to break his fall some way. The only way

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Speaker 2: that Tyler's body could have fallen that way, Sandra believes,

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Speaker 2: is if he was unconscious. So the most likely conclusion

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Speaker 2: is that Tyler either fell or he was pushed or

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Speaker 2: thrown from above. The next question is did Tyler's body

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Speaker 2: fall to where he was found or did someone do

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Speaker 2: something to him somewhere else and then drag it down

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Speaker 2: there or somehow move it. Afterwards, Sandra goes on to

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Speaker 2: say she believes that the crime scene could.

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Speaker 1: Have been staged.

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Speaker 2: She talks about pieces of evidence, including the beer can,

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Speaker 2: the one that was lying very close to Tyler, the

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Speaker 2: one that police did not test for fingerprints and threw away.

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Speaker 2: She said the beer can didn't fall down there with

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Speaker 2: Tyler because he's seen on video minutes before, and he

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Speaker 2: doesn't have a beer can in his hand in that footage.

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Speaker 8: And there was being the true placed next to him

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Speaker 8: like a beer can, which I have a video from walking.

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Speaker 8: He doesn't have a beer can just four minutes before

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Speaker 8: he steps moving, according to his health up on his phone.

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Speaker 8: I mean, I've done a lot to find out what's

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Speaker 8: happened to Tyler. I have a timeline.

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Speaker 2: Dragging a body from the point where the creek bed

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Speaker 2: could be accessed on foot seems unlikely. And as we

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Speaker 2: said before, Tyler's shoes are very clean. And then after

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Speaker 2: an autopsy that was only thirty one minutes long, Tyler's

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Speaker 2: cause of death was ruled as drowning. Now, the length

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Speaker 2: of autopsy time does vary, but the average autopsy takes

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Speaker 2: a lot longer than thirty one minutes. And again, all deaths,

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Speaker 2: especially those of a young, healthy person with no known

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Speaker 2: medical issues, should be investigated as homicides until proven otherwise. Outraged,

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Speaker 2: Sandra asked how the IMME had come to that conclusion.

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Speaker 2: Their results were so unbelievable to her that she demanded

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Speaker 2: a second autopsy. So one of the most common questions

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Speaker 2: I'm asked is how you go about getting a second autopsy,

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Speaker 2: And the answer how to get a second opinion or

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Speaker 2: a second autopsy, and also who pays for it can

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Speaker 2: be very complicated.

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Speaker 1: To me.

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Speaker 2: The issues go way beyond Tyler Smith's case, because a

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Speaker 2: lot of people unfortunately have this happen to them. What

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Speaker 2: do you do when no one, including the authorities, can

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Speaker 2: agree on what actually happened to your loved one. People

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Speaker 2: interested in a second autopsy would normally ask first for

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Speaker 2: something called a medical record review. This is according by

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Speaker 2: the way, to the National Institutes of Health. A couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks ago, we did an interview on this podcast

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Speaker 2: with a company that does provide second opinions on death investigations.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot of companies out there like this,

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Speaker 2: so I think step one is basically submitting a freedom

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Speaker 2: of information request. There are templates online you can use

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Speaker 2: depending on what state you're in. We talk about FOYER

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Speaker 2: requests a lot, but I just want to say this,

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Speaker 2: I think it's something we should all learn how to do,

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Speaker 2: how to use, because you don't want to be learning

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Speaker 2: when you're in shock after something like this happens to

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Speaker 2: you or someone you know. If the case is an

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Speaker 2: open investigation, you may not get much back from your

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Speaker 2: FOY request, but depending on what state you're in, if

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Speaker 2: you're a family member, you probably can get the autopsy

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Speaker 2: report then for a few hundred dollars. Usually the person

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Speaker 2: who reviews the records. If you do go for a

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Speaker 2: company that gives second opinions, can give you an opinion

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Speaker 2: on whether a second autopsy would be a good idea.

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Speaker 2: After that, if the person who reviews the case says yes,

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Speaker 2: a second autopsy would be a good idea, You've then

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Speaker 2: got to figure out who's paying for it. And second

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Speaker 2: autopsies can be very expensive, several thousand dollars. I've even

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Speaker 2: heard quotes of up to ten thousand dollars, plus you

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Speaker 2: have the cost.

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Speaker 1: Of exhuming the body.

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Speaker 2: In Tyler's case, Sandra was working with Mitchell Drake, and

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Speaker 2: because Mitchell Drake was a retired police detective with years

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Speaker 2: of experience investigating homicides, when he pointed out mistakes and

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Speaker 2: oversights in the investigation, he seemed to have the respect

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Speaker 2: of law enforcement. So they actually got the coroner to

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Speaker 2: agree to his second autopsy, and so the county paid

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Speaker 2: to have Tyler's body exoomed. But sadly, there were some

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Speaker 2: pieces of evidence they could never get back because the

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Speaker 2: police had not, for example, checked for DNA under Tyler's fingernails,

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Speaker 2: and Sandra was devastated to learn all of his clothes

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Speaker 2: had been thrown away. Sandra talked to us about this,

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Speaker 2: and again, this is something so many people are dealing with.

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Speaker 2: The exorbitant costs she had to pay just to get

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Speaker 2: access to her son's own records. She estimated she spent

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Speaker 2: over five thousand dollars and that's even with the county

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Speaker 2: covering the second autopsy cost.

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Speaker 1: Imagine not being.

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Speaker 2: Able to access a copy of your own child's autopsy

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Speaker 2: report because you can't afford the fees.

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Speaker 8: So basically, Tyler went for his second autopsy, he got

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Speaker 8: it zoomed. I guess his body was in good condition.

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Speaker 2: Unlike the first autopsy that lasted only thirty one minutes,

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Speaker 2: Tyler's second autopsy lasted more than four hours. The pathologists

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Speaker 2: found a completely different cause of death and a lot

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Speaker 2: of injuries that were not reported on the first autopsy.

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Speaker 2: The pathologists concluded that Tyler did not die from drowning.

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Speaker 2: In fact, they concluded that Tyler had died of injuries related.

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Speaker 1: To the fall.

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Speaker 8: But a fall on a chokehold are two things that

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Speaker 8: he said. You know, a fall could cause that, But

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Speaker 8: Tyler isn't laying in a position of a fall, like

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Speaker 8: he didn't even try to catch himself. Like his hanger

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Speaker 8: up against the wall, Like there's no way he fell

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Speaker 8: straight down and landed in that position. You know, he

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Speaker 8: would have been like in a fetal position, trying to help,

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Speaker 8: you know what I mean, like trying to catch himself

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Speaker 8: or something. And there were no drugs in a system.

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Speaker 8: His thought alcohol was zero point two four, which is

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Speaker 8: like three times a leag a lemon or something. But

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Speaker 8: we also have to remember this as a twenty three

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Speaker 8: year old kid who had just finished a four year

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Speaker 8: university drinking or you know what I mean, Like if

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Speaker 8: you haven't, Like they're like, oh, your son was you know,

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Speaker 8: black got drunk. I'm like, no, he wasn't, you know

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Speaker 8: what I mean, Like I don't believe that.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Sandra says that she has a hard time believing this

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Speaker 2: because she said that her son was a big guy

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Speaker 2: and could handle alcohol. But as we all know, it's

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Speaker 2: very possible to miscalculate, to have one too many, and

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Speaker 2: to become confused, especially in a strange area. Tyler's friend

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Speaker 2: Oni also said that Tyler was not the type to

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Speaker 2: let himself get out of control or to drink excessively.

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Speaker 9: He was smart about his drinking, so for him to

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Speaker 9: get three times the legal limit in a town that

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Speaker 9: he wasn't familiar with, with people that he really didn't

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Speaker 9: know well, didn't really sound like him, didn't.

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Speaker 4: Really sound like him. But I'd like to think that

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Speaker 4: he knew Hillier well enough, because honestly, if it were

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Speaker 4: me and I was in Tyler's shoes, I don't think

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Speaker 4: I would I would have gotten as intoxicated as that.

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Speaker 4: But I don't know what the context of what they

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Speaker 4: were doing, if they were playing games, if they were

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Speaker 4: what they were doing exactly from what I remember, they

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Speaker 4: went out to a bar, and Tyler wasn't really the

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Speaker 4: type to go out to a bar already very drunk,

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Speaker 4: So that when I when I heard that they were

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Speaker 4: at a bar and he was really drunk already, that.

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Speaker 3: Kind of.

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Speaker 5: It did.

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Speaker 4: I don't know. It just didn't seem like he'd be

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Speaker 4: drinking that much at the bar to get that drunk,

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Speaker 4: because obviously it's expensive too, and Tyler was not the

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Speaker 4: type to spend a.

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Speaker 2: Lot of money at the bar, which is why he

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Speaker 2: said he was so surprised when he heard what happened.

365
00:19:53,565 --> 00:19:55,725
Speaker 2: But he said the same thing that I've been thinking

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Speaker 2: all along. This story is so relatable. We have all

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Speaker 2: had moments and we're vulnerable.

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Speaker 7: That's hard to say, only because I've been in that

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Speaker 7: position where I've been there intoxicated, and I almost turned

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Speaker 7: into a different person as far as some of the

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Speaker 7: things I do, some of the things I stay. So

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Speaker 7: I wouldn't put it past Tyler to be so intoxicated

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Speaker 7: that he wanted to stay out and have a good time.

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Speaker 7: When you're that intoxicate, you really don't know up from down.

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Speaker 8: You don't know.

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Speaker 7: You don't have no self awareness, you know, when you're

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Speaker 7: past a certain point, you just you just don't know.

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Speaker 7: I'm told you hear the stories the next day. But

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Speaker 7: if I'm being one hundred percent honest, I wouldn't. It

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Speaker 7: does not surprise me that he wanted to stay out drinking.

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Speaker 7: If he was less intoxicated and at a point where

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Speaker 7: he could still I think maybe logically and remember the

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Speaker 7: night before and form his own opinion and decision, I

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Speaker 7: think you would have recognized, ya, I need to go home.

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Speaker 7: But I think he was just passed that point, and

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Speaker 7: it might have something to do with the drug or

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Speaker 7: whatever that was found in his system.

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Speaker 2: So the second autopsy found that Tyler died due to

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Speaker 2: injuries stained in a fall. Some of his injuries, like

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Speaker 2: the fact that Tyler bit through his tongue, could be

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Speaker 2: potentially explained by landing the way that he did, face

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Speaker 2: down on concrete. Others, according to the second pathologist, could

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Speaker 2: not be explained, including bruising and blood from his nose

394
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Speaker 2: that was pulled, which could indicate he was bleeding before death,

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Speaker 2: not after. Sandra also wondered again about the positions of

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Speaker 2: his arms straight behind him, palms up.

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Speaker 1: She wondered if he could have.

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Speaker 2: Been restrained by handcuffs or something else. This, plus the

399
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Speaker 2: position of his feet so close to the wall, made

400
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Speaker 2: it look like he was either dropped down where he

401
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Speaker 2: was found, possibly while unconscious, or was thrown there. Sandra

402
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Speaker 2: talked about the shock of seeing the sheer number of

403
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Speaker 2: unexplained injuries on her son, injuries that could not be

404
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Speaker 2: explained by drowning.

405
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Speaker 8: At the autopsy, I guess he'd fit through his tongue completely,

406
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Speaker 8: and the first totopsy they said it was normal. He

407
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Speaker 8: had possible I think he said that he had a

408
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Speaker 8: lot of like under one of his arms, a lot

409
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Speaker 8: of deeek tissue, muscular injuries like to his shoulder, there

410
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Speaker 8: are pictures of his first ass he that on the

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Speaker 8: second att they said they weren't there and they just

412
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Speaker 8: said it's probably from skin shredding. But he's got these

413
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Speaker 8: marks on his ankles that look like not taser, but

414
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Speaker 8: like a dry stunt, like he'd been stun gunned, which

415
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Speaker 8: you know, they just won't. I mean, that's exactly what

416
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Speaker 8: it looks like. I've even measured the Gilsburg I've gone

417
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Speaker 8: to the chief of police and said, I want to

418
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Speaker 8: measure how far apart your prongs are, you know, and

419
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Speaker 8: then they're you know, almost exact. But anybody could have

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Speaker 8: a stun gun. He's got lacerations. He had a watch

421
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Speaker 8: on and it was ripped from his wrist, not undone

422
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Speaker 8: at all, and but took part of the skin off

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Speaker 8: his wrist and then it was still together, clastered together,

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Speaker 8: kind of like laying like a foot away from his hand,

425
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Speaker 8: like someone just put it there, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 8: Like it didn't come off with him that way.

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Speaker 2: The second autopsy found that Tyler had twenty nine separate injuries.

428
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Speaker 2: As we said, Tyler did start running at around eleven

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Speaker 2: to fifty pm. Sandra started to wonder if it was

430
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Speaker 2: possible that he was running from someone, maybe the police

431
00:23:22,365 --> 00:23:25,045
Speaker 2: car that she had seen pass by shortly after he

432
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Speaker 2: appeared on the surveillance footage, just a few minutes before

433
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Speaker 2: he stopped moving, or she wondered could he have run

434
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Speaker 2: across someone else out there, someone who randomly decided to

435
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Speaker 2: start something or take advantage of Tyler's vulnerability at that moment.

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Speaker 2: As we said last week, the area where Tyler was

437
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Speaker 2: found had its share a violent crime like a lot

438
00:23:44,685 --> 00:23:46,525
Speaker 2: of states. And by the way, this is according to

439
00:23:46,525 --> 00:23:50,085
Speaker 2: Pew research. The CDC said that Illinois saw a spike

440
00:23:50,165 --> 00:23:53,085
Speaker 2: in their murder rate between twenty nineteen and twenty twenty

441
00:23:53,485 --> 00:23:58,365
Speaker 2: of thirty eight percent. She considered the possibility that someone

442
00:23:58,885 --> 00:24:01,205
Speaker 2: pushed her son over the edge of that cliff in

443
00:24:01,245 --> 00:24:01,765
Speaker 2: a struggle.

444
00:24:03,005 --> 00:24:05,365
Speaker 8: He was definitely fighting for his life, as fribe, thinking,

445
00:24:06,085 --> 00:24:07,965
Speaker 8: what I'm getting from the police is that he was

446
00:24:08,005 --> 00:24:09,925
Speaker 8: walking in an area. Of course he didn't and he

447
00:24:10,005 --> 00:24:13,085
Speaker 8: is walking in a high methodsetamine area. He didn't know

448
00:24:13,085 --> 00:24:15,285
Speaker 8: where is that he's telling his friends he's lost. He

449
00:24:15,325 --> 00:24:18,045
Speaker 8: actually sent a message on Snapchat that he was lost

450
00:24:18,045 --> 00:24:22,245
Speaker 8: to a friend that never indicated that he was like

451
00:24:22,565 --> 00:24:24,645
Speaker 8: in trouble, but he was looking for another place to stay.

452
00:24:25,605 --> 00:24:27,645
Speaker 2: One of the people who claimed that he knew what

453
00:24:27,765 --> 00:24:31,485
Speaker 2: happened to Tyler was a drug dealer who lived nearby.

454
00:24:32,565 --> 00:24:35,645
Speaker 2: He went by the name ghost and he allegedly told

455
00:24:35,645 --> 00:24:38,605
Speaker 2: people that he and some other associates had been involved

456
00:24:38,645 --> 00:24:41,765
Speaker 2: in Tyler's death. It's not clear where it started, if

457
00:24:41,805 --> 00:24:44,245
Speaker 2: it was just a local rumor, or if it could

458
00:24:44,285 --> 00:24:45,045
Speaker 2: be something more.

459
00:24:45,965 --> 00:24:49,445
Speaker 8: He was basically a psychopath. Everybody was scared of him.

460
00:24:49,765 --> 00:24:52,445
Speaker 8: He was a drug dealer. Some people say he was

461
00:24:52,725 --> 00:24:54,965
Speaker 8: a narch. Some people say that he was you know,

462
00:24:55,005 --> 00:24:56,765
Speaker 8: all this other things that I heard about him. But

463
00:24:56,805 --> 00:24:59,645
Speaker 8: he was a bad person, and so they went to

464
00:24:59,925 --> 00:25:05,485
Speaker 8: his kid's mother to ask, you know, because after he died,

465
00:25:06,405 --> 00:25:09,485
Speaker 8: they're saying that he was. People are saying that he's

466
00:25:09,525 --> 00:25:12,965
Speaker 8: involved in Tyler's death with this other guy. And I

467
00:25:12,965 --> 00:25:14,725
Speaker 8: don't know if it's a ribbery or if they jumped them,

468
00:25:14,805 --> 00:25:16,325
Speaker 8: or if they just did it for the heck of it.

469
00:25:17,085 --> 00:25:18,765
Speaker 1: Ghosts died in a car accident.

470
00:25:19,085 --> 00:25:22,005
Speaker 2: Police have told Sandra that they planned to follow up

471
00:25:22,005 --> 00:25:25,805
Speaker 2: on some of these leads, including another tip that they got.

472
00:25:25,845 --> 00:25:28,165
Speaker 2: And I have to say, on the surface, and without

473
00:25:28,205 --> 00:25:30,765
Speaker 2: more evidence, I find some of these tips very hard

474
00:25:30,765 --> 00:25:33,525
Speaker 2: to believe, because, for example, there was one rumor that

475
00:25:33,565 --> 00:25:36,925
Speaker 2: some guys supposedly tortured Tyler in a basement and filmed

476
00:25:36,925 --> 00:25:39,845
Speaker 2: a video that showed up on the dark web. Honestly,

477
00:25:39,965 --> 00:25:43,005
Speaker 2: looking at the evidence, there are absolutely no signs of

478
00:25:43,085 --> 00:25:46,925
Speaker 2: torture like that. Tyler's injuries appear to have happened when

479
00:25:46,965 --> 00:25:50,165
Speaker 2: he landed in that position. It seems as though he

480
00:25:50,365 --> 00:25:53,125
Speaker 2: landed face down on concrete in a couple of inches

481
00:25:53,165 --> 00:25:56,525
Speaker 2: of water. So I agree with the second autopsy.

482
00:25:56,565 --> 00:25:57,285
Speaker 1: I believe it's.

483
00:25:57,245 --> 00:26:00,325
Speaker 2: Much more likely Tyler's injuries were caused from his fall.

484
00:26:01,045 --> 00:26:03,205
Speaker 2: By the way, it is horrifying to me that Sandra

485
00:26:03,365 --> 00:26:05,485
Speaker 2: has to do her own investigating. She has to be

486
00:26:05,605 --> 00:26:08,045
Speaker 2: doing interviews with people who claim to have heard about

487
00:26:08,085 --> 00:26:10,405
Speaker 2: horrific things that happened to her son, and to go

488
00:26:10,485 --> 00:26:17,365
Speaker 2: through that emotional turmoil. If Tyler's fall was not accidental,

489
00:26:18,285 --> 00:26:23,085
Speaker 2: if someone did attack him, what was their motive. If

490
00:26:23,085 --> 00:26:25,805
Speaker 2: their intention was to rob him, why didn't they take

491
00:26:25,845 --> 00:26:28,485
Speaker 2: his wallet, or his money or his phone, all of

492
00:26:28,485 --> 00:26:32,525
Speaker 2: which were found in his pockets. Tyler did have a

493
00:26:32,645 --> 00:26:35,645
Speaker 2: very high blood alcohol level point two four to six percent,

494
00:26:35,845 --> 00:26:39,285
Speaker 2: almost three times a legal limit, but no other illegal

495
00:26:39,325 --> 00:26:42,765
Speaker 2: drugs in his system. Sandra had the blood retested several

496
00:26:42,805 --> 00:26:46,605
Speaker 2: months after the autopsy and found something else. Tyler's blood

497
00:26:46,725 --> 00:26:54,485
Speaker 2: tested positive for GHB. The GHB in Tyler's blood is

498
00:26:54,525 --> 00:26:56,765
Speaker 2: for me, one of the biggest mysteries of this case,

499
00:26:57,325 --> 00:27:00,485
Speaker 2: because the amount of GHB found in Tyler's blood was

500
00:27:00,685 --> 00:27:04,245
Speaker 2: pretty small. There's the possibility that the GHB could be

501
00:27:04,285 --> 00:27:07,245
Speaker 2: a red herring because I learned something that others may

502
00:27:07,285 --> 00:27:11,205
Speaker 2: find helpful. GHB can be present in blood after death naturally,

503
00:27:11,765 --> 00:27:14,925
Speaker 2: especially if it's a small amount of blood, and there

504
00:27:14,925 --> 00:27:17,485
Speaker 2: can be other factors like if the blood isn't properly

505
00:27:17,525 --> 00:27:20,845
Speaker 2: stored or isn't processed for some time, which may have

506
00:27:20,885 --> 00:27:24,805
Speaker 2: been the case in Tyler's autopsy. Gamma hydroxy beter rate

507
00:27:25,125 --> 00:27:28,885
Speaker 2: is also present in blood and urine, and post mortem

508
00:27:28,885 --> 00:27:32,525
Speaker 2: GHB formation can take place before the sample is taken.

509
00:27:32,925 --> 00:27:34,285
Speaker 2: So what I'm trying to say is it can be

510
00:27:34,325 --> 00:27:36,925
Speaker 2: tricky to figure out if small amounts of GHB are

511
00:27:37,005 --> 00:27:39,965
Speaker 2: naturally occurring or if there had been some exposure to

512
00:27:40,005 --> 00:27:45,165
Speaker 2: the drug. Tyler's percentage was thirteen milligrams per liter, which

513
00:27:45,325 --> 00:27:48,605
Speaker 2: is under the cutoff point for most cases. Of GHB exposure,

514
00:27:49,485 --> 00:27:53,045
Speaker 2: but when mixed with alcohol, GHB is often used as

515
00:27:53,045 --> 00:27:56,085
Speaker 2: a date rape drug. So we also have to consider

516
00:27:56,205 --> 00:28:00,485
Speaker 2: another possibility, the possibility that maybe someone slipped Tyler or

517
00:28:00,525 --> 00:28:02,565
Speaker 2: something and followed him out to where he was found.

518
00:28:05,845 --> 00:28:08,525
Speaker 2: Sandras said she had spoken to the men who first

519
00:28:08,565 --> 00:28:11,805
Speaker 2: came up with a smiley face killer theory. New York

520
00:28:11,845 --> 00:28:15,045
Speaker 2: City detectives Kevin Gannon and a criminal justice professor named

521
00:28:15,045 --> 00:28:18,205
Speaker 2: doctor Lee Gilbertson who goes by Doc have publicly backed

522
00:28:18,205 --> 00:28:21,605
Speaker 2: this theory over the years. Most of you are listening

523
00:28:21,685 --> 00:28:24,845
Speaker 2: to this probably have heard about the smiley faced killers theory,

524
00:28:24,885 --> 00:28:27,685
Speaker 2: but for those of you not familiar with it, it's

525
00:28:27,725 --> 00:28:30,405
Speaker 2: a theory that has gotten a lot of mainstream media attention,

526
00:28:30,485 --> 00:28:35,525
Speaker 2: and it's also very controversial. In a nutshell, these guys

527
00:28:35,565 --> 00:28:38,325
Speaker 2: believe that a person or a group of serial killers

528
00:28:38,365 --> 00:28:41,845
Speaker 2: have been murdering young men, mostly college age and athletic

529
00:28:41,885 --> 00:28:44,805
Speaker 2: young men, around the country and making the deaths look

530
00:28:44,885 --> 00:28:48,365
Speaker 2: like accidental drownings. Between nineteen ninety seven and two thousand

531
00:28:48,365 --> 00:28:51,125
Speaker 2: and seven, around forty five young men have been pulled

532
00:28:51,125 --> 00:28:54,445
Speaker 2: out of bodies of water in the United States. The

533
00:28:54,485 --> 00:28:58,405
Speaker 2: first killing that was supposedly linked to this killer was

534
00:28:58,485 --> 00:29:02,405
Speaker 2: when Fordham University student Patrick McNeil disappeared in New York

535
00:29:02,405 --> 00:29:06,485
Speaker 2: City on February sixteenth, nineteen ninety seven, after being seen

536
00:29:06,605 --> 00:29:08,885
Speaker 2: at the Dapper Dog Bar on the Upper East Side.

537
00:29:09,245 --> 00:29:13,445
Speaker 2: Patrick disappeared on April seventh. His body was found floating

538
00:29:13,485 --> 00:29:15,325
Speaker 2: in the water near a pier in the Bay Ridge

539
00:29:15,325 --> 00:29:17,925
Speaker 2: area of Brooklyn, and after he was pulled out of

540
00:29:17,965 --> 00:29:21,245
Speaker 2: the East River. Patrick's cause of death was listed as drowning,

541
00:29:21,525 --> 00:29:25,805
Speaker 2: manner of death undetermined, like Tyler and like so many

542
00:29:25,845 --> 00:29:29,005
Speaker 2: other men in the United States. Later, Kevin and his

543
00:29:29,085 --> 00:29:32,045
Speaker 2: colleague said they found evidence that made them believe that

544
00:29:32,085 --> 00:29:35,525
Speaker 2: Patrick had been murdered, tortured, and placed in the water

545
00:29:35,605 --> 00:29:40,165
Speaker 2: after being drugged. The detectives believed that there were a

546
00:29:40,205 --> 00:29:42,845
Speaker 2: lot of things that were not consistent with drowning, including

547
00:29:43,005 --> 00:29:46,885
Speaker 2: the position of the body in the water. Now, a

548
00:29:46,925 --> 00:29:49,925
Speaker 2: lot of people, including the FBI and other experts, have

549
00:29:50,005 --> 00:29:52,845
Speaker 2: dismissed this theory. They've said it's just a conspiracy theory,

550
00:29:52,885 --> 00:29:55,525
Speaker 2: it's an urban legend. A lot of people do not

551
00:29:55,645 --> 00:29:57,685
Speaker 2: believe the Smiley Faced Killer is real at all.

552
00:29:58,405 --> 00:29:59,725
Speaker 1: I have mixed feelings about this.

553
00:29:59,805 --> 00:30:03,165
Speaker 2: I do think it's extremely unlikely that one person or

554
00:30:03,205 --> 00:30:06,525
Speaker 2: a gang of killers is responsible for all these deaths. Personally,

555
00:30:06,765 --> 00:30:08,645
Speaker 2: I think the weakest part of the argument is the

556
00:30:08,645 --> 00:30:12,005
Speaker 2: connection to the smiley face graffiti, because one of the

557
00:30:12,085 --> 00:30:14,765
Speaker 2: things that these detectives said the killings had in common

558
00:30:14,845 --> 00:30:17,845
Speaker 2: was the fact that there was smiley face graffiti and

559
00:30:17,925 --> 00:30:21,125
Speaker 2: a lot of these murder sites. But to be honest,

560
00:30:21,765 --> 00:30:24,685
Speaker 2: sometimes there wasn't a smiley face. Sometimes the smiley face

561
00:30:24,725 --> 00:30:28,325
Speaker 2: was found miles away. And the smiley face, by the way,

562
00:30:28,405 --> 00:30:30,405
Speaker 2: is one of the most common symbols in the world.

563
00:30:30,885 --> 00:30:33,845
Speaker 2: That and maybe the peace sign are everywhere, so I

564
00:30:33,925 --> 00:30:36,205
Speaker 2: find that I don't think that there's any link between

565
00:30:36,205 --> 00:30:39,925
Speaker 2: smiley face graffiti and murder. On the other hand, the

566
00:30:39,965 --> 00:30:43,365
Speaker 2: truth is death by drowning is very common in the

567
00:30:43,445 --> 00:30:46,125
Speaker 2: United States. We know that a lot of these young

568
00:30:46,165 --> 00:30:50,245
Speaker 2: men like Tyler, were intoxicated, and young intoxicated men are

569
00:30:50,245 --> 00:30:53,045
Speaker 2: the second group most likely to die from drowning, the

570
00:30:53,085 --> 00:30:56,605
Speaker 2: first being children. According to Sandra, she reached out to

571
00:30:56,685 --> 00:31:00,125
Speaker 2: Kevin and Dock. They said they did look into Tyler's case.

572
00:31:00,645 --> 00:31:03,325
Speaker 2: They said they don't believe that it's connected to the

573
00:31:03,325 --> 00:31:07,125
Speaker 2: other cases, but they did tell her they do believe

574
00:31:07,125 --> 00:31:12,365
Speaker 2: that Tyler was murdered. By the way, that's another possibility

575
00:31:12,485 --> 00:31:14,565
Speaker 2: that a lot of deaths in the United States that

576
00:31:14,565 --> 00:31:17,565
Speaker 2: are supposedly drownings are in fact due to something else,

577
00:31:17,765 --> 00:31:22,845
Speaker 2: either accidental or otherwise. I've seen groups online blaming these

578
00:31:22,885 --> 00:31:25,845
Speaker 2: supposed smiley faced murders on everything from a female cult

579
00:31:25,885 --> 00:31:29,605
Speaker 2: to a shadowy group of Satanists. But honestly, the biggest

580
00:31:29,605 --> 00:31:32,365
Speaker 2: story for me is not the supposed serial killer. It's

581
00:31:32,365 --> 00:31:35,285
Speaker 2: the fact that look at the sheer number of men

582
00:31:35,405 --> 00:31:39,965
Speaker 2: who disappear from areas with busy waterways in cities including

583
00:31:40,005 --> 00:31:44,485
Speaker 2: Austin and Boston. I actually was floored to learn that

584
00:31:44,605 --> 00:31:48,045
Speaker 2: every single day in the United States, eleven people die

585
00:31:48,085 --> 00:31:51,285
Speaker 2: from drowning. So I can see why since it is

586
00:31:51,365 --> 00:31:54,605
Speaker 2: so common, given the number of deaths, the number of

587
00:31:54,605 --> 00:31:57,365
Speaker 2: times the scenario unfolds, why it would be tempting to

588
00:31:57,445 --> 00:32:00,165
Speaker 2: rule a death a drowning. But that's not fair to

589
00:32:00,205 --> 00:32:03,365
Speaker 2: the victims or to their families. Every single person who

590
00:32:03,445 --> 00:32:07,325
Speaker 2: dies deserves a thorough death investigation and not simply to

591
00:32:07,325 --> 00:32:10,605
Speaker 2: be written off as another statistic. In the same way

592
00:32:10,645 --> 00:32:13,565
Speaker 2: we get so outraged about missing young women being dismissed

593
00:32:13,565 --> 00:32:16,965
Speaker 2: simply because they had mental health issues or other problems.

594
00:32:17,445 --> 00:32:19,685
Speaker 2: We should not assume that a young man simply got

595
00:32:19,765 --> 00:32:22,405
Speaker 2: drunk and fell in the water without a thorough investigation.

596
00:32:23,165 --> 00:32:25,605
Speaker 2: Sandra suspected her son did not die from drowning, and

597
00:32:25,645 --> 00:32:29,045
Speaker 2: she was right because in Tyler's case, the second autopsy

598
00:32:29,085 --> 00:32:31,765
Speaker 2: found the fatal injuries were due to the fall and

599
00:32:31,845 --> 00:32:35,325
Speaker 2: not drowning in a couple of inches of water. So

600
00:32:35,485 --> 00:32:39,005
Speaker 2: now the crucial question is what happened right before the fall.

601
00:32:40,685 --> 00:32:43,205
Speaker 2: Though the amount of the GHB in his blood was small,

602
00:32:43,605 --> 00:32:46,405
Speaker 2: we do have to consider the possibility that Tyler could

603
00:32:46,445 --> 00:32:49,205
Speaker 2: have taken GHB either that night or earlier that day.

604
00:32:50,125 --> 00:32:54,165
Speaker 2: GHB is known to be something that bodybuilders do. Tyler

605
00:32:54,565 --> 00:32:56,245
Speaker 2: was in the best shape of his life. He was

606
00:32:56,285 --> 00:32:59,285
Speaker 2: working out a lot. He was really, really, really into fitness,

607
00:32:59,605 --> 00:33:02,525
Speaker 2: and this drug is popular with people who are into fitness.

608
00:33:02,645 --> 00:33:04,805
Speaker 2: It's a fat burner, it doesn't show up on a

609
00:33:04,805 --> 00:33:07,885
Speaker 2: lot of drug screen and it's in and out of

610
00:33:07,925 --> 00:33:12,445
Speaker 2: the system really fast. It is metabolized very quickly. I

611
00:33:12,525 --> 00:33:15,245
Speaker 2: considered this because even with the high level of alcohol

612
00:33:15,245 --> 00:33:18,485
Speaker 2: in Tyler's blood, according to his friends and family, he

613
00:33:18,645 --> 00:33:21,685
Speaker 2: seemed extremely intoxicated to the point of not knowing where

614
00:33:21,685 --> 00:33:26,445
Speaker 2: he was. GHB mixed with alcohol can cause this. Amy

615
00:33:26,565 --> 00:33:30,045
Speaker 2: asked Onny if, to his knowledge, Tyler ever took GHB.

616
00:33:31,365 --> 00:33:33,965
Speaker 4: I know we had a friend who was trying to

617
00:33:34,045 --> 00:33:37,685
Speaker 4: kind of body build and he used he would use staburners.

618
00:33:37,725 --> 00:33:39,605
Speaker 4: I don't know if those are the same. They're probably

619
00:33:39,685 --> 00:33:42,085
Speaker 4: two different things. But no, if he was using that,

620
00:33:42,125 --> 00:33:44,845
Speaker 4: he didn't tell me that. I mean, when we'd hang out,

621
00:33:44,845 --> 00:33:48,165
Speaker 4: he wasn't there were people around us who did drugs

622
00:33:48,245 --> 00:33:52,245
Speaker 4: or did whatever. He wasn't really the type to participate

623
00:33:52,285 --> 00:33:52,485
Speaker 4: in that.

624
00:33:53,565 --> 00:33:56,365
Speaker 2: So this is interesting because in my experience, I have

625
00:33:56,485 --> 00:34:00,845
Speaker 2: written a lot about GHB in the past, and also

626
00:34:01,125 --> 00:34:04,405
Speaker 2: in high school, back when it was legal. I took

627
00:34:04,405 --> 00:34:07,805
Speaker 2: it a few times, and I did drink with GHB

628
00:34:07,965 --> 00:34:10,485
Speaker 2: once and I had a horrific experience that resulted in

629
00:34:10,525 --> 00:34:13,525
Speaker 2: me almost dying. So I've seen firsthand how easy it

630
00:34:13,565 --> 00:34:16,045
Speaker 2: can be to get things slightly wrong and to get

631
00:34:16,045 --> 00:34:18,805
Speaker 2: into a dangerous situation. That's just a complete side note,

632
00:34:19,005 --> 00:34:22,165
Speaker 2: but only seems to be saying that this stuff fat

633
00:34:22,165 --> 00:34:26,045
Speaker 2: burners GHB was something that was around in their social circle.

634
00:34:26,845 --> 00:34:30,645
Speaker 2: It's possible that Tyler took some, maybe even not thinking

635
00:34:30,645 --> 00:34:32,845
Speaker 2: it would affect him at all, and that it combined

636
00:34:32,885 --> 00:34:40,485
Speaker 2: with alcohol with disastrous results. One of Tyler's best friends

637
00:34:40,605 --> 00:34:42,925
Speaker 2: was a guy named Nate. He said that he met

638
00:34:42,925 --> 00:34:45,405
Speaker 2: Tyler when they and another friend of theirs named Tommy,

639
00:34:45,525 --> 00:34:48,885
Speaker 2: went through National Guard training together, but they met again

640
00:34:48,925 --> 00:34:51,525
Speaker 2: when they attended the same college, and that's when their

641
00:34:51,565 --> 00:34:56,045
Speaker 2: friendship really solidified. Nate talked about how much Tyler loved

642
00:34:56,085 --> 00:34:59,285
Speaker 2: listening to EDM music and djaying at home. He said

643
00:34:59,325 --> 00:35:04,125
Speaker 2: they also worked out together almost every day. Nate said

644
00:35:04,285 --> 00:35:06,885
Speaker 2: that he did not know for sure if Tyler would

645
00:35:06,885 --> 00:35:09,805
Speaker 2: have taken GHB, but he said he would not be

646
00:35:09,845 --> 00:35:12,565
Speaker 2: surprised if Tyler had taken some kind of fat burner,

647
00:35:12,685 --> 00:35:15,405
Speaker 2: which is what GHB is called, to get in shape

648
00:35:15,405 --> 00:35:21,005
Speaker 2: for the academy. Nate was far away when Tyler died,

649
00:35:21,205 --> 00:35:24,645
Speaker 2: so our conversation with him was not really related to

650
00:35:24,685 --> 00:35:25,925
Speaker 2: the immediate investigation.

651
00:35:26,565 --> 00:35:27,285
Speaker 1: But I want to.

652
00:35:27,245 --> 00:35:30,925
Speaker 2: Include this because it was so clear how much Nate

653
00:35:31,005 --> 00:35:33,765
Speaker 2: cared about his friend and how much he truly wanted

654
00:35:33,805 --> 00:35:34,205
Speaker 2: to help.

655
00:35:34,765 --> 00:35:36,565
Speaker 1: So I was inspired by that.

656
00:35:36,565 --> 00:35:39,085
Speaker 2: And I'm going to end on something he said, because

657
00:35:39,165 --> 00:35:42,045
Speaker 2: I think it's a crucial message for everyone out there

658
00:35:42,445 --> 00:35:45,245
Speaker 2: who goes on a night out with friends to hear, hey.

659
00:35:45,165 --> 00:35:48,205
Speaker 5: Let Tyler go alone, which is never a good thing.

660
00:35:48,405 --> 00:35:52,685
Speaker 5: I mean, I know, I always tell even my soldiers here,

661
00:35:52,805 --> 00:35:55,245
Speaker 5: because I'm in charge of about fifty of them, I say, like,

662
00:35:55,885 --> 00:35:56,525
Speaker 5: if one of you.

663
00:35:56,445 --> 00:35:57,565
Speaker 6: Get kicked out of a.

664
00:35:57,485 --> 00:35:58,805
Speaker 7: Bar, you all get kicked out of the bar.

665
00:35:58,885 --> 00:36:01,525
Speaker 5: When he goes home, you always need to travel with

666
00:36:01,565 --> 00:36:03,725
Speaker 5: a battle buddy, or at least two or three of

667
00:36:03,725 --> 00:36:05,485
Speaker 5: you go to make sure you know each other gets

668
00:36:05,565 --> 00:36:08,965
Speaker 5: home safe. So the fact that I mean it angers

669
00:36:09,085 --> 00:36:10,605
Speaker 5: me is the fact that they just kind of let

670
00:36:10,685 --> 00:36:12,965
Speaker 5: him go and they're like, Okay, you go see you tomorrow,

671
00:36:13,045 --> 00:36:15,205
Speaker 5: because I mean, you never know, you never know what's

672
00:36:15,245 --> 00:36:15,765
Speaker 5: going to happen.

673
00:36:16,245 --> 00:36:18,965
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then for you know, this this happened.

674
00:36:18,645 --> 00:36:22,125
Speaker 5: And I feel like if somebody else is with him,

675
00:36:22,365 --> 00:36:26,165
Speaker 5: the situation or this outcome would not be the thing.

676
00:36:28,885 --> 00:36:31,845
Speaker 2: Sandra says that, to her knowledge, her son has never

677
00:36:31,885 --> 00:36:35,285
Speaker 2: taken GHB. She says she and her family are not

678
00:36:35,405 --> 00:36:38,285
Speaker 2: giving up in their quests for justice for Tyler. She's

679
00:36:38,365 --> 00:36:41,485
Speaker 2: keeping the Justice for Tyler Smith facebook page going. She's

680
00:36:41,525 --> 00:36:44,885
Speaker 2: continuing to gather evidence any way that she can. I

681
00:36:44,965 --> 00:36:48,605
Speaker 2: also want to help in any way that we can. Unfortunately,

682
00:36:48,725 --> 00:36:51,685
Speaker 2: a lot of the surveillance footage that would have shown

683
00:36:51,765 --> 00:36:55,885
Speaker 2: Tyler was deleted after a couple of weeks, so it's

684
00:36:55,925 --> 00:36:59,885
Speaker 2: lost forever. But sometimes social media posts live for much

685
00:36:59,925 --> 00:37:03,725
Speaker 2: longer online. I have found Facebook live footage of the

686
00:37:03,765 --> 00:37:06,565
Speaker 2: Corner Connection bar from the night of September fourteenth and

687
00:37:06,605 --> 00:37:09,525
Speaker 2: the early morning hours of September fifteenth, twenty eighteen.

688
00:37:10,485 --> 00:37:12,405
Speaker 1: I believe there is more footage out there.

689
00:37:12,925 --> 00:37:14,965
Speaker 2: If you were there at the Corner Connection that night

690
00:37:15,165 --> 00:37:17,885
Speaker 2: or in that area, please look through your phone.

691
00:37:17,925 --> 00:37:18,485
Speaker 1: You never know.

692
00:37:19,165 --> 00:37:22,165
Speaker 2: A black screen from a photo that you accidentally took

693
00:37:22,165 --> 00:37:26,365
Speaker 2: from your jeans pocket could capture crucial audio. The crucial

694
00:37:26,405 --> 00:37:29,925
Speaker 2: window of time is only a few minutes long. This

695
00:37:30,085 --> 00:37:32,885
Speaker 2: was a small bar with only a few people there,

696
00:37:33,365 --> 00:37:36,845
Speaker 2: and there's always a chance that someone out there saw something.

697
00:37:37,685 --> 00:37:39,405
Speaker 5: It is unfortunate that some people don't want to talk

698
00:37:39,405 --> 00:37:39,765
Speaker 5: about it.

699
00:37:39,805 --> 00:37:41,525
Speaker 6: I mean, the more.

700
00:37:41,325 --> 00:37:43,365
Speaker 5: The more information provide, the better. I mean, even if

701
00:37:43,405 --> 00:37:46,725
Speaker 5: it's something that you've already you know, somebody's already said.

702
00:37:46,805 --> 00:37:49,085
Speaker 5: I mean, at least it just shows that shows that support,

703
00:37:49,165 --> 00:37:51,285
Speaker 5: and that's definitely you know what I've always.

704
00:37:50,965 --> 00:37:51,365
Speaker 4: Been here for.

705
00:37:51,405 --> 00:37:53,325
Speaker 5: I wear a bracelet on my wrist every single day

706
00:37:53,685 --> 00:37:56,445
Speaker 5: for him. You know, it's in the military. If you

707
00:37:56,445 --> 00:38:00,605
Speaker 5: have a fallen comrade, either in combat or or personal life,

708
00:38:00,805 --> 00:38:03,445
Speaker 5: you know, you wear that kind of represent them, you know,

709
00:38:03,525 --> 00:38:06,805
Speaker 5: you kind of put his what his MOS was, with

710
00:38:07,005 --> 00:38:10,245
Speaker 5: his military occupational specialty, his job, and then like you know,

711
00:38:10,365 --> 00:38:12,925
Speaker 5: the born you know, to and front dates and and

712
00:38:13,045 --> 00:38:15,365
Speaker 5: you know, maybe a little little saying about him. So

713
00:38:15,445 --> 00:38:19,925
Speaker 5: I continuously wear that around my rest every day, and

714
00:38:19,925 --> 00:38:22,165
Speaker 5: then I have one sitting in my office on display,

715
00:38:22,605 --> 00:38:24,965
Speaker 5: and he'd be frankly honest with you, I I definitely

716
00:38:25,725 --> 00:38:30,325
Speaker 5: think that he has protected me in my life when

717
00:38:30,365 --> 00:38:33,365
Speaker 5: I when I needed it the most, when I got

718
00:38:33,405 --> 00:38:36,445
Speaker 5: assaulted back when I was in station in Colorado before

719
00:38:36,525 --> 00:38:39,165
Speaker 5: my first employment. So even still to this day, I

720
00:38:39,205 --> 00:38:42,765
Speaker 5: know that tis he's up there, up there Washington.

721
00:38:43,685 --> 00:38:49,245
Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen

722
00:38:49,285 --> 00:38:51,285
Speaker 2: Gone Murder Line is a production of School of Humans

723
00:38:51,325 --> 00:38:54,445
Speaker 2: and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine

724
00:38:54,445 --> 00:38:57,845
Speaker 2: Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy

725
00:38:57,885 --> 00:39:01,605
Speaker 2: Tubbs for her research assistance. Music contributed by Ben Sale,

726
00:39:01,885 --> 00:39:06,085
Speaker 2: executive producers of Virginia Prescott Brandon Barr and Elsie Crow.

727
00:39:06,205 --> 00:39:07,685
Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my

728
00:39:07,685 --> 00:39:09,805
Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us

729
00:39:09,845 --> 00:39:12,765
Speaker 2: at our Helengong Murder line at six seven eight seven

730
00:39:12,805 --> 00:39:16,005
Speaker 2: four four six one four five. That's six seven eight

731
00:39:16,365 --> 00:39:18,805
Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five.

732
00:39:29,245 --> 00:39:30,165
Speaker 1: School of Humans