1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,559 Speaker 1: The Superman needed Lex Luthor, the Batman needed the Joker. 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: And I don't mean to pick to put Angel Reese 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: in some kind of villain as well, because I don't 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: consider her a villain. 5 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 2: But I think every great player needs a foil. 6 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 3: The reason why we watch that women's basketball is not 7 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 3: just because of one person. 8 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: It's because of me too. And you know, I don't 9 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 2: think there should be any criticism for what she did. 10 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 2: I honestly didn't see it when the game was going on, but. 11 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 4: The story became more compelling, and the desire to watch 12 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 4: and talk about it became more compelling when she had 13 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 4: a foil. 14 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: Angel won a national championship. She has four million plus followers. 15 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 2: She's at the met gala. 16 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 4: Sizza and Magde Stallion want to come sit courtside and 17 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 4: watch her naked sports. 18 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: The Making of a Rivalry a six episode docuseries that 19 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: explores the media frenzy surrounding two super novas in Kitlin 20 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: Clark and Angel Reese. I'm your host, Carrie Champion, and 21 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: welcome to the Making. 22 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 2: Of a Rivalry. 23 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: This docuseries focused on the perceived rivalry of Kitlyn Clark 24 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: and Angel Reese. I wanted to show you that rivalry 25 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: is a good thing for any sport or industry. I 26 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: also hope that I was able to give you some 27 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: insight into who Angel and Caitlin are on and off 28 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: the court, and I wanted to highlight how America, for 29 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: better or for worse, is addicted to a black and 30 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: white narrative. But above all, I hope you can see 31 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: the excellence in the women's game. It's so important to 32 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: be seen, especially for women, but seen in a way 33 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: that's not only acknowledging our excellence but also celebrating it 34 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: because oftentimes, across the board, no matter the profession, women 35 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: are not seen or heard. I would argue as of late, 36 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: the sport has changed that perception for women, but more specifically, 37 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: basketball has changed it. The WNBA has changed the narrative 38 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: for women's sports as an entity. The slogan everybody watches 39 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: women's sports is no longer a qt phrase. But I 40 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: truly believe everyone watches women's sports. I believe the world 41 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: no longer sees women's sports as an obligation or or 42 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: something that is politically correct. But women's sports are now 43 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: a priority, nipping at the cotails of equity and inclusion. 44 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: I needed to win, and not just in sports, in Chess, Monopoly, checkers, 45 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 2: I had to win, and if I didn't win, I 46 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: was a kid who was throwing the game, throwing the pieces. 47 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 2: I've gotten much better now, Gina Prince Spie with I'm 48 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: a writer, director and what's my resume? Loving Basketball, Secret 49 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: Life of Bees, Old guard Woman, King and now upcoming 50 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: Children of Blood and Boom. 51 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: I've seen a feel. Gina, thank you for doing this. 52 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you for being here. We have been 53 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: trying to with our docu series talk about the way 54 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: sports really meets at the intersection of politics, of culture, 55 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: of just about anything and when you think about it, 56 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: at least for me, one of your early films really 57 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: gave me insight into what a female athlete could be. 58 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: And I'm really curious about your sports background. 59 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: Growing up. 60 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: What sports did you play? 61 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 2: I played everything. I was super fortunate to have parents 62 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 2: who saw the value in girls playing sports because it 63 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: was a game changer. I have two older sisters and 64 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: younger brother. We were in soccer since I think probably 65 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 2: aged four. Back then, they didn't have girls' leags, so 66 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: we had to play with boys, which didn't always go great. 67 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: Because boys didn't like the fact that we were out 68 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 2: there and that we were better than them, So we 69 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: got kicked and punched a lot, but my parents said 70 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 2: just keep going out there. Once I got to middle school, 71 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 2: fell in love with basketball. 72 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: For the last episode of this docu series, we had 73 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: a very special guest. I wanted to describe the past, 74 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: the present, and the future of the WNBA while also 75 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: sharing what I've learned from making up a rivalry. And 76 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: for me, there was only one way that I could 77 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: do it. There was only one film that envisioned and 78 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: centered a woman as a professional basketball player, and that 79 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: was Love and Basketball. 80 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 5: The last scene where she's playing and Omar's got her 81 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 5: kid in his lap and he's cheering her on courtside, 82 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 5: that is the dream. That is the dream when we 83 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 5: are the ones being celebrated. We are the center for 84 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 5: a league whose. 85 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 2: Story is rarely documented. 86 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: Love and Basketball would live in the mind of this 87 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: creator long before the WNBA was even a reality. It 88 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: was a dream for Gina and I'm sure for many 89 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: other women who played sports in high school and in college, 90 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: all the while excepting the fact that their love of 91 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: the game would never materialize into a professional opportunity not 92 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: here in the United States at least. I hear all 93 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: the time writers and director say, I've been working on 94 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: this for a decade. Yeah, and it finally came to 95 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: fruition in terms of bringing it all together. When did 96 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: that that love and basketball concept into your mind? 97 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 2: I feel like it was bubbling while I was in 98 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 2: college because so much of it is autobiographical. But it 99 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 2: wasn't until I graduated and decided that I wanted to 100 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 2: write a screenplay. I knew I wanted to write a 101 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 2: love story. I knew I wanted to write a black 102 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: love story because there was nothing for us at all. 103 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: And I said, I'm going to write a black Harry 104 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: met Sally. That was like my favorite movie at that time. 105 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 2: But what does that mean? And so it really was 106 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: that mantra that you're told, like, write what you know, 107 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 2: write something personal is your first thing, And so I 108 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: just thought about me and wanting to be the first 109 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 2: film in the NBA and just the way that I 110 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: grew up, but also being able to honestly talk about 111 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: what it is to be female athlete because there was 112 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 2: no examples at all for me, certainly in film or television. 113 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: Genus film which is audible biographical to me, represents every 114 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: woman who is played, will play, and is currently playing 115 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: in the WNBA. 116 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: I grew up so often being told I was a 117 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 2: tomboy and something's wrong with me and I'm weird. So 118 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 2: to be able to put a character and celebrate this 119 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 2: character for who she is that meant a lot to 120 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 2: me because it was really kind of an apology to 121 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 2: myself to be able to put that. And so it's 122 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: like these pieces just started coming together, and the beauty 123 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: of writing is you get to put so much of yourself. 124 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: I mean, my first kiss was that it was ten 125 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 2: seconds on our fingers, but like just real moments like that. 126 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 2: But certainly the way I felt as a girl and 127 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 2: a young woman playing sports, it was beautiful for me 128 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 2: to be able to pour that and as I said, 129 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: celebrate her as opposed to being somebody that was made fun. 130 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: Of basketball obviously the sport. Is that a metaphor for you? 131 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: I don't think it's a metaphor so much as it 132 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: was absolutely my north star. It represented everything that I 133 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: am today, certainly everything I learned playing ball and how 134 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: to be leave it all out on the floor. Ambition 135 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: is good aggression, is good, go after it. All these 136 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: things that I learned playing ball that I apply to life. 137 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: I am so grateful that I had sports growing up, 138 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: but because it taught me how to be a woman 139 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: in this world and succeed as a woman in this 140 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 2: world because so many of our spaces, of course, are 141 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: male dominated. Certainly Hollywood is so to be able to 142 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 2: go in with a swagger that if I didn't have sports, 143 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: I would not have that. I don't know how I 144 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 2: could actually move in this industry if I didn't have 145 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: that swagger that sports gave me. A great example was 146 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: Love and Basketball. My meeting to hopefully get us sold, 147 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 2: because I've said often, I wrote the script, took a 148 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: year and a half, went out with it, and every 149 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: single studio turned it down. Every production company turned it 150 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: down like I got crickets, and finally went through the 151 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: Sundance program, and then New Line Cinema heard about it. 152 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: So I had one chance. And I remember sitting outside 153 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 2: of Mike de Luca's office and I was literally shaking, 154 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 2: scared to death, and I was like, I'm gonna choke. 155 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: I had this one chance. Finally I'm going to choke. 156 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: And I walked away from the office, and I said, 157 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: where are you most comfortable? I'm like on the court, 158 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: all right, so walk into that room like you're walking 159 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 2: on the court. And that called me. And I walked 160 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 2: in there with my little bop that I have on 161 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 2: the court, and I was a different person. I went 162 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 2: from freaking out to calm and I got this. So yeah, 163 00:08:58,280 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 2: it absolutely guides me. 164 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: That's a beautiful story because I don't know if many 165 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: of us think about where we're most confident, where we excel, 166 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: and literally transport yourself to that place whenever you're not 167 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: feeling adequate. I believe sport does so much for women 168 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: in a world where it takes forever to find our 169 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: voice and then feel comfortable in society. When the league 170 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: started in nineteen ninety eight, what do you remember about 171 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: the WNBA when it started? What do you what were 172 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: your earliest memories in terms of the fanfare, the popularity, 173 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: the stars, if you will. 174 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,199 Speaker 2: I remember that inaugural season. I was so excited that 175 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: it was happening. It was it was like a fever dream, 176 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 2: like this is really happening. And then all my favorite players, 177 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: Don Staley and least Leslie, Shmikua, Cynthia Cooper Ryl swoops 178 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 2: like they all had this place to go and the 179 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 2: games were packed. The excitement was huge. It was just fun. 180 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 2: It was fun. You felt like this thing that we 181 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 2: had wanted for so long had finally happened. But there 182 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: was also for me, there was a anxiety of would 183 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 2: it last, which I know a lot of people felt, 184 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: but because I felt if this didn't work, it was 185 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: never going to come back. 186 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: Wow, that's so interesting. How long do you think that 187 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: feeling happened. I would say for the first five years. 188 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: Maybe people didn't know. 189 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would say it went on longer 190 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: than that. It felt like the WNBA. After maybe the 191 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 2: first two seasons, you know, the audience started to dip 192 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 2: and there were so many questions about was it going 193 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: to continue, and then a couple teams folded. It felt 194 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: very precarious, I'm gonna say honestly up until this last year. Wow, 195 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 2: when it exploded again like it did that in an 196 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: inaugural year. 197 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 5: Interesting. 198 00:10:58,200 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: This is when you were like, it's here to stay. 199 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: So little I don't think many people would disagree with that, 200 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: and we went back and looked. It was so much excitement, 201 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: especially after the ninety six Olympics of what would this be? 202 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: And you mentioned some of the greats. I want to 203 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,719 Speaker 1: tie that back into loving basketball for my understanding. You 204 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: interviewed Don Staley, Sheryl Swoops, and Lisa Leslie, and I 205 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: think you said Shemika also to be teammates, to be, 206 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: to be, to be, to be Monica. 207 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know, not Monica, though I did. I 208 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: did read Marion Jones, who at that time was one 209 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: of my heroes as well. She was so she auditioned Wow, 210 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 2: But I knew ultimately I needed an actor, but I 211 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 2: wanted my vision was to have all her teammates be 212 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: Litha and Don and all that. But the Olympics fell 213 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: right when I was going to shoot, and so I 214 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: was able to get them in. I had them all 215 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: come in an audition anyway, and it was it was 216 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: my opportunity one to meet my heroes, but to just 217 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 2: to talk about basketball, use it as research as well. 218 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 2: And they loved talking about what it was like to 219 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 2: go overseas when they didn't have the WNBA, What did 220 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 2: that feel like? And so that authenticity was everything to me. 221 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: If you were too right love and basketball today, what 222 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: would it look like? Would it still be that same 223 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: love story? 224 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 2: Wow? You know what's interesting? I think the saddest thing 225 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: is as hard as it was to get it made, 226 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: And I don't know that I could get it made 227 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 2: today unless it was on Netflix. So I want to 228 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 2: start there. But how would it be different? Let me 229 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 2: be honest, I don't think I would change. I don't 230 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 2: think it would change. I think the only element I 231 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 2: would probably add it was made in this moment is 232 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 2: nil and how that's changed the game, and also the 233 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 2: racial component and how because it's been so amplified, what 234 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 2: do you mean by that? Like it's always there's always 235 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 2: been an underlying feeling about that, but this year it 236 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 2: was very obvious who was getting amplified as the star, 237 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 2: as the second coming. And that's not to take anything 238 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 2: away from Caitlyn. She's dope, she's a baller, and the 239 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 2: pressure that was on her and she succeeded anyway, Like 240 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 2: I'm a fan, but there were also other folks coming 241 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 2: in and people who have been there grinding and being amazing. 242 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: But also the way that you know, Angel and Caitlin 243 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 2: were pitted against each other in that game, it was 244 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: so racial, it was so obvious and these folk who 245 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 2: had never even cared about the WNBA all of a 246 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 2: sudden had something to say because it actually wasn't even 247 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 2: about the WNBA. It was about they had a space 248 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: now for their racism and their sexism. So that's been 249 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 2: really tough. And even who's getting the endorsements and there 250 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 2: I won't name the pro but it was really surprising 251 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 2: to me to see this product advertised and it was 252 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 2: a group of five women, and the woman that was 253 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 2: in the center was a white woman, and then the 254 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 2: sisters were on the sides, and that white woman is 255 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 2: a rookie, not Caitlyn. It was somebody else. But I 256 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 2: saw that it was so glaring to me because the 257 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 2: people around her are amazing ballplayers, So why did that happen? 258 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: Centering the white narrative has been very very much point 259 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: of discussion, especially in a WNBA, especially based on what 260 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: you just said. But I want to go back to 261 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: the amplification, and I just I'll focus on that word. 262 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: Cannie Parker was in two thousand and eight the Rookie 263 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: of the Year and MVP, but the amplification for her 264 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: was not there, not in the way in which it 265 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: was for Caitlin. When you look at your work. I 266 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: feel like there are similar stories. Love in basketball greatest 267 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: of all time? Go di it right. The Woman King 268 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: I never The Woman King came out after COVID. Post COVID, 269 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: I never wanted to go to the movie theaters again. 270 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: And I'm giving you my experience, me and seven of 271 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: my girlfriends wearing King hats, Burger King hats. She bought 272 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: us some Burger King hats. They better pay for our 273 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: ad and we put them on our heads. 274 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 2: Oh my God. 275 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: And we sat in a movie theater and we laughed, 276 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: and we cried, and we were inspired, and we left 277 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: filling so much pride. One of my girlfriends bought her 278 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: daughter too, and she was just locked in with us. 279 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: And the message was there were so many messages. I 280 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: could watch it over and over again, but it broke 281 00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: my heart to not see that film be ample fight 282 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: in a way that it deserves. He articulated it very carefully, 283 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: and I think, honestly, the lack of not acknowledging our excellence. 284 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: How did that make you feel? 285 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 2: It was? It was I'm not gonna lie with that day. 286 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: Was surreal to have that happen, though, given the history 287 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 2: of the Academy. Given the history of our country, I 288 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: shouldn't have been surprised because it happens across every medium, 289 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 2: every element of our life. There is a lack of 290 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: acknowledgment of our excellence. We don't get the assumption of 291 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: excellence that others do. And so it wasn't for me. 292 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: It was bigger than the film didn't get recognized because 293 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 2: across the board the work of steam designer, you know, 294 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 2: my actors, Viola, my editor, these are all black women 295 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 2: who did incredible work. The hair and makeup, just next 296 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 2: level work that was just ignored. So it was like 297 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: every single element of the film was not recognized. And 298 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 2: that's that's what was so disheartening, because that's so many 299 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 2: black women doing excellent work and that work being ignored. 300 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 6: You. 301 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: I think of Viola talking about the way she trained 302 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: and even the way those women trained, and I was 303 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: like to me that in itself they were athletes. There 304 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: you were giving them this opportunity, and then the acting 305 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: was just on another level. I I don't want to 306 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: put my frustration on you, because I think that we 307 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: all have experienced that in the marginalized community, where we 308 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: feel like our work is not being acknowledged properly and 309 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: or given it's just due. And with this perceived rivalry 310 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: that we have been talking about in this docuseries, there 311 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: was this idea that Angel was the villain and that 312 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: Caitlin Clark was America starling. Yeah, and in my mind 313 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: should have been Angel Reese's crowning achievement winning a nation, 314 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: winning the natty A National Championship. She had to defend 315 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: her character, not for words she said, but just because 316 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: she actually won. And she trash talk because to me, 317 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: that is a rite of passage. You lose I get 318 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: to trash talk. Is this the right of passage? When 319 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: you consume that story? When you read that story, did it? 320 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: Were there any parallels for you in Hollywood? 321 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 2: I mean, foremost when that happened, it was shocking the 322 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 2: vitriol coming from grown men to this young black woman, 323 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 2: like literally on social and on their podcasts and calling 324 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 2: her names, and it was as if there was no 325 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 2: humanity shown to her. It's she's twenty twenty one years 326 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: old and you're the name calling and the hate that 327 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 2: you're putting on her and thus putting out in the world, 328 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 2: and that's making it acceptable to pile on her It 329 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 2: was shocking to me. And props to Shaq who came 330 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 2: out real quick to try and shut that down. Jamel 331 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 2: Hill came out super quick. But it is, it is. 332 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 2: It was so hard to watch. And yet because I 333 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 2: think all of us as black women, at some point 334 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 2: in our lives have felt that and so you you know, 335 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 2: you want to protect Angel but also that it wasn't 336 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 2: it was so strange. It wasn't just she was getting 337 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 2: it from everybody. 338 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: It's a difference between being a foil and then having 339 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: everyone root against you. I don't mind the rivalry. I 340 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: think it's good for the sport, but when everyone is 341 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: rooting against you, that's more than that. Because if they 342 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: when they do the comparisons to Larry and Larry Bird 343 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 1: and Magic Johnson, people were rooting for Larry, people were 344 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: rooting for Magic. It was it was fair. We now 345 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: now the narrative when you think of and this is 346 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: why the comparisons are similar but not fair in the 347 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: sense of social because there is no humanity for for angelries. Yeah, 348 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: and I feel that's that is a feeling across the 349 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: board when we talk about refusing to acknowledge our excellence. 350 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 2: But also it's because she had the audacity to to 351 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 2: show swagger, to believe in herself. How dare to trash 352 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 2: talk's dare? And that's the thing. Also, we not only 353 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 2: do people not recognize our excellence, but when we dare 354 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 2: to to acknowledge our own excellence, then you're immediately slapped down. 355 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: Being in the WNBA is not a lucrative gig. It's 356 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: purely for the love of the game, which is why 357 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: it's so hard to understand why there is any hatred 358 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: towards these women. When making of a rivalry returns, we 359 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: talk about the love of basketball, think about the liberty. 360 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: I give such props to Claire Wu who took it over. 361 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 2: Just a couple of years ago. They were playing at 362 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 2: the Westchester Community Center, Like, why would anyone do that? 363 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 2: With nobody coming and floors that were that you know, 364 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 2: when it rained, it would get flooded and it's warped, 365 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 2: and no one's there, no one's cheering for you. But 366 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 2: you show up and you're balling out and you're giving everything. Now, 367 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 2: I love it because you go to the Barklay Center 368 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 2: and it's packed every game. Back in the moment. 369 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: When you see these women on the court, they are 370 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 1: at home, they are their most authentic pure selves. Basketball 371 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: is their art, as filmmaking is genus. What is that love? 372 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: What is that love of basketball? Feel like? 373 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 2: It's interesting because sometimes say that female ballplayers love it 374 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 2: more because of everything that you just said. You are 375 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,959 Speaker 2: playing strictly for the love of the game, because there 376 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 2: are no you're not getting accolades, you're not getting fame, 377 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 2: you're not getting money. In fact, it's a sacrifice to play. 378 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 2: But that feeling, the feeling on the court, the feeling 379 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: of like breaking someone's ankles, hitting that shot, playing defense, 380 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 2: getting a steal, it's like you it's it's like on 381 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 2: that court you can be your true self. There's such 382 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 2: joy in for the moment, being able to feel like 383 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 2: the best person, the joy of collectively you and your 384 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 2: teammates coming together, being in a war. And that's what 385 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 2: it feels like on the court, like you're in a battle, 386 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 2: you're war. That feeling it's an amazing high, and then 387 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 2: you step off the court and it dissipates. But for 388 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 2: that moment it is I think it's just chasing that high, 389 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: chasing that high, and once you've tasted it, it's like 390 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 2: you can't let it go, and so I just think, yeah, 391 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 2: any chance that you have to play, you're gonna you're 392 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 2: gonna take it as hard as it is. I feel 393 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 2: such like it's emotional to think about those women just 394 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 2: in the span of two years, how their lives has changed. 395 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 2: I'm grateful for everything that's happened, because so many women 396 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 2: have grinded in the shadows and been excellent in the shadows. 397 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,719 Speaker 2: I wonder how they feel. Honestly looking at what it 398 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 2: is now is a bittersweet. 399 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Like, especially those who are coming to the 400 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 1: end of their career, right, Like, I want to celebrate 401 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: and this is just from some reporting. Yes, I'm celebrating 402 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: where we are, but did it really need to take 403 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: this long? 404 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 2: Yeah? 405 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: Conversely, do you also? Can you also relate to that 406 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: when you were trying to get your projects done, feeling like, 407 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: look at all I did and this is this is 408 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 1: the this is what I get in return? Obviously the 409 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,239 Speaker 1: fans will love you and hold you down, but what 410 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: I And let me ask the question another way, Do 411 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: you do it for the luck? 412 00:24:58,960 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 2: Yes? 413 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: Obviously it's not you know, like the w NBA in 414 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: terms of you know, not being able to you know, 415 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: have chartered flights and back, but there is this lack 416 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: of when you give your you know. 417 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 5: What I mean. 418 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 2: No, my journey in this industry, in the work that 419 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: they do in both centering us but also centering black women, 420 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 2: those are the hardest films to get made. And I 421 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 2: am forever humbled despite what this says, to be humble 422 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 2: the fact that Love and Basketball is still around after 423 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 2: all these years. But there were years on years of 424 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 2: doing work but not really being acknowledged for it. And 425 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 2: it's strange until The Old Guard, which I did, which amazing, yes, 426 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 2: but it only it didn't the leads. Only one of 427 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 2: the leaves was black. That was the first time I 428 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 2: got foreign press, and what was shocking to me is 429 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 2: how many spoke about Love and Basketball when I was 430 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 2: told my whole life that my films don't travel, nobody 431 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 2: cares about them outside of America. I had no idea 432 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: until The Old Guard, which was what twenty twenty one. 433 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 2: I had no idea but to do all the films 434 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 2: I did, but never have a budget like that, never 435 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: have the respect during the press process, it was a 436 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 2: stunning and very I was very telling, but once you 437 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 2: have a taste of that it's the thing you're not 438 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 2: going to go back, so being able to take that 439 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 2: energy into the woman King and go back to centering 440 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 2: black women in this story that hadn't been told, Like 441 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 2: I was going to fight for that, and that's what 442 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 2: it has been. I've been in a sustain and fight 443 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 2: for the last thirty years to tell these stories. But 444 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 2: sports gave me that fight. Amen. 445 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: Now you're like, look, I get extra wacamole every time 446 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: I go to Chipotle. Y'all cannot be trying to say 447 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: I can't extra brocamole. This is what it is. I did, 448 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: I did o guard and it was it okay. And 449 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: if you don't want to give me this extra quak, 450 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: you got a problem. Do you ever think that there 451 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: is a space and time and in our culture and 452 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: our community and politics and sport that the audacity of 453 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: sharing our excellence won't be met with vitriol? Or will 454 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: there always be this hesitation and I'm talking about black 455 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: women when we're centering black women, will there always be 456 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: this hesitation to take the high road? Like when they 457 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: go low, you know, we go hi. 458 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:48,479 Speaker 2: Shout out to Michelle. 459 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if I always go high though, but yeah, we. 460 00:27:52,359 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 2: We have the most excellent candidate for president and she 461 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 2: is being questioned constantly. We we have so far to go. 462 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 2: It's just it's real. She has to win. That will help. 463 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 2: But watching her journey, so many of us know exactly 464 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,479 Speaker 2: what it is because we feel it. Our talent in question, 465 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 2: our our space, the fact the spaces that we want 466 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,360 Speaker 2: to be in is questioned, the fact that I love 467 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 2: the thing that she said the other day. We don't 468 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 2: aspire to be humble like I dug that, and that's 469 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 2: you know, obviously the women in WNBA, there's so much 470 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 2: trash talking and they get slammed for it, you know, 471 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 2: So it is a I there's so far to go, 472 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 2: but what's important is the conversations to call it out 473 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 2: and then for you know, people who are benefiting from 474 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 2: it need to stand up and be loud. Paige Beckers 475 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 2: like love her. 476 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: She can do no she I really I'm hoping she 477 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: uses her voice in such a powerful way, and she 478 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: already has the. 479 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 6: As a white woman who leads a black lead sport 480 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 6: and celebrated here. I want to show a light on 481 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 6: black women. They don't get the media coverage that they deserve. 482 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 6: So I think it's time for change. 483 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: Change. So we know when she's coming in and hopefully 484 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 2: she'll go the sparks. Yeah, and we know she's going 485 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 2: to continue to be that vocal and it's important you 486 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 2: have to shut that down. But yeah, we got a 487 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 2: long way to go. We have a really long way 488 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 2: to go. Can we have to be together? We have? 489 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 2: I mean, I love that you're talking about with the angel. 490 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 2: What you're talking about is you're being honest about it, 491 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 2: but you're also supportive of it, you know, and we 492 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 2: just we need that support amongst each other. It's more 493 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 2: than ever. And you know, it's interesting, like I didn't 494 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 2: even see a friend of mine sent me, you know, 495 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 2: Asia was on a podcast, Oh bad Mouth and Love 496 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: and Basketball. It was like everyone can have their opinion. 497 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 2: It's like you can absolutely have your opinion. What surprised 498 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 2: me was how far she went, you know, about something 499 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: and a film that's meant so much to black girls 500 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 2: and black women, the fact that there's a black woman 501 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 2: behind it. You know, I think I just hope that 502 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 2: she forgot about that. 503 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: When Making of a Rivalry returns, the league has come 504 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: a very long way, but there's still more work to do. 505 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: We look ahead at what's the future of the WNBA. 506 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 5: Once you have a transcendent star like Jordan, Now we 507 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 5: can get the staffs. Now we can get the Lebrons, 508 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 5: and I think that's what's going to happen. So Page 509 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 5: is next, and then Juju, and Juju could be the 510 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 5: biggest star of them all, like Juju getting this shoe 511 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 5: deal as the biggest shoe deal for a women's basketball 512 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 5: player in the history of the game. As a sophomore 513 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 5: at USC, when you think about like USC basketball, I 514 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 5: always think about loving basketball and Snila than and just 515 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 5: like me as a kid wanting to hoop, and that's 516 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 5: great too. 517 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: So what we're gonna see I. 518 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 2: Think moving forward. And then Malaysia full. 519 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 5: Wiley, who's nasty, also like she's going to come into 520 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 5: the league and be awesome. So you're gonna have this 521 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 5: new group of WNBA players and they all like each. 522 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: Other back in a moment. 523 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 5: I'm a host and a content creator in the Basketball 524 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 5: Space podcast name is the Heat Check with Trista Criek. 525 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 5: I just talked to you about basketball. Make fun of things, 526 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 5: make fun of people, make fun of places. 527 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: Tristan is a personality that has a very unique but 528 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: I believe spot on take of the league's future and 529 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: it's play. But when you think of this new crop 530 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: of rookies, how would you describe their personalities? 531 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 2: And I'm I'm and I'm specifically. 532 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: Talking to obviously about the Angel Reeses and the Caitlin 533 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: Clarks and the Camilla Cardoso's, Like, how how did they 534 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: enter the league as opposed to what you've seen when 535 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: you look. 536 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 5: At with this new generation, is its post nil, right? 537 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 5: And so post nil. They're coming into the league with money, 538 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 5: They're coming into the league with followings and audience of 539 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 5: their own. They're coming into the league with brand deals. 540 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 5: They're coming into the league loud and proud and unapologetic, 541 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 5: And I think that causes a lot of unintentional consequences 542 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 5: with the older generation of w NBA players who have 543 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 5: had to fight and claw and scratch for every shred 544 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 5: of attention, every dollar, everything, and they've had to make 545 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 5: decisions to sacrifice who they were in order to continue 546 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 5: to keep those things as a possibility. And this is 547 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 5: like a new generation of workers, right, Like You've got 548 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 5: a new generation that says, no, I'm not going to 549 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 5: just do what you tell me to do. How you 550 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 5: tell me to do it because I can go and 551 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 5: access this million followers and monetize that on my own. 552 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 5: So what you're seeing is like league fits. 553 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 2: You're seeing this the tongue out. 554 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 5: You're seeing almost a backlash to traditional female in the 555 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 5: workforce kind of a thing, and that's caused all kinds 556 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 5: of good things for the league and some friction in 557 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 5: the league. 558 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: I think along with these new players and their new money, 559 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: they bring the new fans just to says, the league 560 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: used to be an exclusive party. Everybody did not watch 561 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: women's sports, and that's okay, but now it's general admission. 562 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 5: I think about the WNBA like a party, right, and 563 00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 5: the party's been very curated and selective, and it's been popping. 564 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 7: And Caitlyn comes in. 565 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 5: And she's Middle America, right, and she's bringing new folks 566 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 5: to the party. So I think for those who also 567 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 5: have been around this sport a long time, we have 568 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 5: to give grace too. We can't allow the nonsense and 569 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 5: the bulls, but we also have to know, like we 570 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 5: want the league to grow, so these women who can 571 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 5: get paid don't have to go overseas and end up 572 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 5: in a prison because they weren't making a living wage, 573 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 5: Like we want this league to grow, but there's going 574 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 5: to be growing pains, and sometimes a broad mainstream fan 575 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 5: base brings things that we don't really feel comfortable with 576 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 5: because we've been all like minded in a way where 577 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 5: we accept everybody. 578 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: But as our vice president Kamala Harris would say, we 579 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: ain't going back love in basketball. While I use that 580 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 1: film as an example and I see the parallels currently 581 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: in the WNBA, I really want the last word to 582 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: be given to the women of the league. This is 583 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: my life letter to you all. You've worked so hard. 584 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: We've watched you grind, We've watched you demand respect and dignity, 585 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: and now you receive it because you deserve it. This 586 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: is for the women who built this league. Lisa Leslie, 587 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: Don Staley, Cheryl Swoops, Cynthia Cooper, Maya Moore, Candice Parker. 588 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: We thank you, ladies, for what you have given us. 589 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: We thank you for what you have built. We thank 590 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: you for the excellence because we see it and we 591 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: honor it. The league is in a beautiful place, and 592 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 1: I want to thank the ladies of the past, the 593 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: ladies of the present, and the ladies who are coming. 594 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: We thank you for what you've given us, and we 595 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: can't wait to have more, even. 596 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 6: More sold out crowds, so many of your people coming 597 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 6: to the games. 598 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 2: I love where we are right now. We just continue 599 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 2: to girl. 600 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 6: I can't say, well it'll be in five years, but 601 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 6: I know that tennis is going to be higher. 602 00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 2: The money will go up. 603 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 3: We have a new CBA coming coming up in twenty 604 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 3: twenty five, so I'm this is my love of year 605 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 3: in the league. The growth, the game's gonna grow, and 606 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 3: I think like the biggest thing is just a salary cap, 607 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 3: Like we're actually gonna get the money we deserve. We 608 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 3: just is it gonna take some more years, but it's coming. 609 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 4: I love this league, and I think that when the 610 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 4: next CBA comes around, they're gonna do the right thing. 611 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 4: And it's not gonna be perfect, it's not gonna be 612 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,479 Speaker 4: where we want it all the way, but when growth 613 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 4: comes hanging and vice versus. So I think really good 614 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 4: things are gonna come out of this. If I could 615 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 4: predict the future, I think it'll be on the same 616 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 4: level as the NBA in terms of pay, in terms 617 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 4: of salaries, in terms of opportunities, marketability, all that kind 618 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 4: of stuff, accessibility, everything. 619 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 7: I agree, it'd be on the same standard, just be basketball. 620 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 7: I think it's so many first first social women's basketball, 621 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 7: but I think and a few to gonna need a 622 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 7: standard regarding all of basketball if people are gonna be 623 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 7: like you mean, mental women. 624 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 6: So this league is. 625 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 2: Gonna go through the riff, and I hope everybody's ready. 626 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 2: It's ready, It's ready. 627 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,399 Speaker 1: The Making of a Rivalry Caitlin Clark Versus Angel Rees 628 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: is a Be Honest production in partnership with the Black 629 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: Effect podcast Network in iHeart Women's Sports. Written and executive 630 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: produced by me Carrie Champion. Supervising producers are in Santana. 631 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: Produced by Jock Vice Thomas, sound design and mastered by 632 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: Dwayne Crawford. Associated producer Olubusayl Shabby. Naked Sports is a 633 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: part of the Black Effect podcast Network in iHeartMedia. Hey everybody, 634 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: if you're new to Naked Sports, welcome to the podcast. 635 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: And for those who've been with us since season one, 636 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: thank you for right now. We're kicking off season four 637 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: with this six episode docu series that you're listening to 638 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: right now, and after that, Naked Sports will continue to 639 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 1: live at the intersection of sports, politics and culture for 640 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: covering all things from the presidential race to the WNBA 641 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,240 Speaker 1: Rookie of the Year contests. This season will be bold, 642 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: as you can already tell, no holds barred, but also 643 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: we'll bring you that same vulnerable storytelling technique that makes 644 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: our show so very unique. We appreciate you for being here, 645 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: and thank you all for the support. We'll talk to 646 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: you next week.