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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a beautiful young teen cheerleader

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Speaker 1: Frenzy stabbed by a teen boy dad having to use

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Speaker 1: a tracking app to try to find his girl's body.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us.

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Speaker 2: Savannah Copeland is a thirteen year old middle schooler in Tennessee.

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Speaker 2: She has big dreams of becoming a forensic anthropologist and

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Speaker 2: is an all star athlete, excelling in gymnastics, karate, and cheerleading.

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Speaker 2: But things take a deadly turn when Savannah vanishes in

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Speaker 2: the middle of the night.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine you wake up in the morning, you

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Speaker 1: get everything ready for your children, and then wake them

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Speaker 1: for breakfast, and your.

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Speaker 3: Child is not there.

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Speaker 1: That is what this little thirteen year old cheerleader's parents experienced.

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Speaker 3: Listen, She's never.

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Speaker 4: Gone out as far as I know, you know. I

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Speaker 4: mean I could look at her life three sixty every

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Speaker 4: single day and I could see she didn't sneak out.

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Speaker 5: She never went out.

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Speaker 4: We never had to worry about that.

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Speaker 3: From our friends.

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Speaker 1: Wat E six Michael Coplan, little thirteen year old Savannah's father,

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Speaker 1: trying to make sense of what happened that horrible night.

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Speaker 1: First of all Life three sixty. We've all heard of it.

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Speaker 1: Many people know about it, many people don't what it is.

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Speaker 1: To Barry Hutchinson, joining US, veteran law enforcement and detective

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Speaker 1: now owner and chief investigator at Barry and Associates Investigative Services. Barry,

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Speaker 1: it's quite an investigative tool. Life three sixty explain.

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Speaker 6: It can be used to track the moonments of whoever

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Speaker 6: the phone belongs to. As you know, Nancy, the cell

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Speaker 6: towers phones can be pained on every location wherever the

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Speaker 6: phone sends signals and the triangulation pattern, and it's really

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Speaker 6: really helpful to track the movements of victims and where

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Speaker 6: they were particular times, to establish motives and everything else involved.

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Speaker 4: In the case.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Lauren Colin, joining US an investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: co host Primetime Crime on YouTube. You can find her

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Speaker 1: at Popcrime dot Tv. Lauren, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Explain to me what happened that night, because I find

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Speaker 1: it very unusual. This little thirteen year old girl was

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Speaker 1: always where she said she would be be it at school,

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Speaker 1: at church, at cheerleading practice on the way between those

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Speaker 1: three locations. Never once had she not been home when

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Speaker 1: she was supposed to be home. What happened that night?

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Speaker 1: What do we know at the beginning? What did the

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Speaker 1: parents find that morning?

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Speaker 7: What we do know is that, as you mentioned, her

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Speaker 7: parents woke up and she wasn't there.

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Speaker 3: They panicked.

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Speaker 7: I used air tags for my kids, but I have

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Speaker 7: her Life three sixty is also amazing.

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Speaker 3: So her dad pulled the app.

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Speaker 7: Open and he realized that, oh my gosh, she's nearby.

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Speaker 7: She was sort of at this trail by this community pool.

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Speaker 1: Lauren, When you say the trail led along side of pool,

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Speaker 1: is that the community pool?

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Speaker 3: We're talking about the neighborhood pool, so to speak.

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Speaker 7: Yes, it's the broad Acre's neighborhood Nancy, And if you

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Speaker 7: look online, this neighborhood is described as warm and charming.

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Speaker 7: It's actually a very popular pool and a popular trail.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I want to talk to Barry Hutchinson again, law

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Speaker 1: enforcement and owner of Barry and Associate's Investigative Services. Barry,

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Speaker 1: when you look at Life three sixty, okay, be kiss.

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Speaker 1: I've got two teams. I don't know how this happened,

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Speaker 1: but they just turned seventeen and they're always going in

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Speaker 1: different directions. Now I know where they're supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: But this Life three sixty is amazing. It can tell

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Speaker 1: you if they're on foot because it shows little sneakers walking.

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Speaker 1: It can tell if they're sitting in a car, even

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Speaker 1: if the car is not moving. It can tell if

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Speaker 1: they're in a moving car and how fast the car

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Speaker 1: is going. And it shows you a map where they're headed,

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Speaker 1: what street they're on. And my children have it on

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Speaker 1: me as well. So another feature of Life three sixty,

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Speaker 1: Barry Hutchinson, is that if you know the right button

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Speaker 1: to push, it can show you their trail that day.

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Speaker 1: And that's what Lauren Colin was talking about, the trail,

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Speaker 1: So explain the trail. It almost looks like a digitized

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Speaker 1: footprint line little dots showing you where they've been.

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Speaker 3: How does it do that, Barry.

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Speaker 6: It's all done by satellite and geo fencing. It's a

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Speaker 6: very very great tool. This shows everything. But one thing

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Speaker 6: I want you to keep in mind also doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 6: one hundred percent that's where the person was. It means

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Speaker 6: that's where the phone was.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Barry Hutchinson.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how old your children are, but if

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Speaker 1: you have a child that seteen I guarantee you their

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Speaker 1: phone is with them, unless you're actually you're right, Barry,

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Speaker 1: unless it's been physically taken away from them. So Lauren

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Speaker 1: Colin joining me, investigative reporter, Lauren, you're telling.

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Speaker 3: Me that the dad opens up the Life thy sixty

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Speaker 3: app trying to find out where is she.

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Speaker 1: Savannah's not in her bed, and he looks at where

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Speaker 1: she's been because apparently her.

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Speaker 3: Phone by that time was dead.

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Speaker 1: What happened exactly the night before she disappears?

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Speaker 8: Listen getting a call that his daughter is missing. Michael

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Speaker 8: Copeland heads back home to search for Savannah using the

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Speaker 8: Life three sixty app that shows where the phone goes.

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Speaker 8: They could see the path that Savannah took, and at

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Speaker 8: one time the app shows the family that Savannah when

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Speaker 8: missing between midnight and two thirty eight, but does not

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Speaker 8: show her exact location. Starting in the general location, the

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Speaker 8: family goes door to door asking if someone has a

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Speaker 8: doorbelled camera that might have seen what direction Savannah was

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Speaker 8: going in to no avail.

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Speaker 1: Lauren Colin, that is heartbreaking. So the parents see this trail,

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Speaker 1: the dad does, and they start walking the trail door

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Speaker 1: to door asking people, have you seen Savannah? And in

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Speaker 1: my book don't be a victim. I ask parents, guardians,

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Speaker 1: caretakers to keep photos of their children, current photos on

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Speaker 1: their phone and any other identifying features that they can

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Speaker 1: show people immediately, and to always know what their children

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Speaker 1: are wearing, what their backpack looks like, anything about them. Now,

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Speaker 1: tell me about this so here it is first thing

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Speaker 1: in the morning. Dad goes to work, He gets to

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Speaker 1: call Savannah, it's not here. He races home and they

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Speaker 1: start going door to door along this life three sixty trail.

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Speaker 3: Tell me about that.

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Speaker 7: Yes, they were frantically looking for their child, and they

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Speaker 7: followed the path that they saw on the app, which

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Speaker 7: was so helpful until they were able to connect with

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Speaker 7: law enforcement and finally go to the trail behind the

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Speaker 7: community pool.

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Speaker 1: What is hard to believe is that many people have

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Speaker 1: actually found fault with a little thirteen year old cheerleader

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Speaker 1: for leaving her home in the middle of the night

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Speaker 1: based on her history. As I always say, when you

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Speaker 1: don't know a horse, look at his track record. I

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Speaker 1: have never once seen my daughter or son or know

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Speaker 1: of them crawling out the window or leaving the house

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 3: Does that mean it will never happen? No, I'm just

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Speaker 3: saying it never happen.

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Speaker 1: When you don't know what's going to happen, you look

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Speaker 1: back at what has already happened. In this case, this

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Speaker 1: little girl had never left home before. Savannah Coplan, just

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Speaker 1: thirteen years old, all caught up in middle school and cheerleading,

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Speaker 1: had never snuck out before.

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Speaker 3: So why that.

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Speaker 1: Night of all nights in thirteen years, it had never happened.

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Speaker 1: And I submit she was lured out, lured out, bringing

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Speaker 1: to mind the case of another thirteen year old little girl,

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Speaker 1: Nicole Lovell. Nicole Lovell, we believe was lured out by

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Speaker 1: a phone app or an online dating apps such as

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Speaker 1: kit Kik, Lured out of her home. Her mother discovers

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Speaker 1: the next morning she's gone. Nicole also lured out by

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Speaker 1: an older teen boy. She also is stabbed dead and

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Speaker 1: her body found beside the road. It's a phenomena straight

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Speaker 1: out to Philip Dubey, joining US high profile lawyer out

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Speaker 1: of LA with the Public Defender's Office.

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Speaker 3: A Philip teen crime.

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Speaker 1: I always have considered teen killers as more dangerous than

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Speaker 1: adults because they.

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Speaker 3: Don't have a conscience.

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Speaker 1: Yet they don't understand the gravity of what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: So they are acting without any moral compass at all,

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Speaker 1: as in the case I just told you about Nicole Lovell,

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Speaker 1: just thirteen years old, who was lured out of her

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Speaker 1: home with her mom by an older teen David Eisenhower,

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Speaker 1: who I believe had been a valedictorian small private school

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Speaker 1: before he went on to be an.

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Speaker 3: Athlete scholar at college.

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Speaker 1: He had just gotten there seventeen ish years old, luring

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Speaker 1: this little girl out because he did not want anyone

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Speaker 1: to find out about their sex relationship. That's what happened

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Speaker 1: right there. So, the luring out of a little girl

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Speaker 1: thirteen years old, like Savannah Copeland, I find it very

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Speaker 1: difficult to understand how people believe that.

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Speaker 9: How people blame the child, Well, first of all, it

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Speaker 9: depends on what you mean by luring out. If the

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Speaker 9: child was being lured out to be killed, and yes,

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Speaker 9: that's a different analysis, But if the child was being

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Speaker 9: lured out just to hook up, get to know one another,

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Speaker 9: and it's sort of like that Romeo and Judy.

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Speaker 1: Game thirty in the morning, Dubey, I've told many a joury,

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Speaker 1: nothing good happens after midnight.

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Speaker 3: If you're getting.

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Speaker 1: Lured out your bedroom with your parents at midnight.

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Speaker 3: It is not for anything good. I mean, do you

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Speaker 3: have children for Pete's sake?

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Speaker 9: No, I understand know, and this is exactly why.

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Speaker 3: Well there you got. Why did I even ask you

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Speaker 3: a question? You know, when you do have children, you're

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Speaker 3: gonna understand.

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Speaker 1: There's no good reason for them to be leaving the

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Speaker 1: home at midnight.

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Speaker 3: They were lured, and it's not for a good reason.

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Speaker 3: What to go have milk and cookies.

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Speaker 9: The luring takes two. The child could have said, no,

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Speaker 9: I'm not turning out in each other.

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Speaker 1: I've got a teen year old girl need to get

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Speaker 1: to know somebody at two thirty am.

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Speaker 9: Welcome to the twenty first century. Where do you think

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Speaker 9: we are? Nowadays? Kids communicate online, they communicate through their phones.

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Speaker 9: They want to hook up, they want to get to

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Speaker 9: know one another, and mom and dad's certainly not going

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Speaker 9: to allow it at that hour. So what do they do?

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Speaker 9: They sneak out? You know, the real question is.

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Speaker 1: Maybe in your world, maybe you snuck out at two am,

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Speaker 1: But that's not what we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I know about cell phones.

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Speaker 1: I bought my children, so I pay the monthly bill

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Speaker 1: for their cell phones. Yes, I know about cell phones.

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Speaker 1: But that's a whole another thing. Having a cell phone

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Speaker 1: and getting lured out of your home where your everybody's

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Speaker 1: asleep and you have to sneak out at twelve midnight.

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Speaker 3: That is luring. You know what. I can't talk to you.

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Speaker 3: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jory Crawsen joining us a psychologist faculty at Saint

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Speaker 1: Leo University and consulted with the Blue Wall Institute, author

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Speaker 1: of Operation SOS. Doctor Jory, can you talk some sense

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Speaker 1: into Dubay. There's no good reason, no innocent reason for

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Speaker 1: a child just thirteen, she'd just turned thirteen, for Pete's sake,

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Speaker 1: to get lured out of her home with her parents

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Speaker 1: at midnight.

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Speaker 10: There's no good reason. But there is a reason, some motivation,

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Speaker 10: some enhancement, something to get her out of that home.

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Speaker 10: The big key will be, you know, you get more

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Speaker 10: information off of that phone. If there were text messages,

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Speaker 10: or if he got close to the home, the home

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Speaker 10: Wi Fi would register on his phone. There's got to

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Speaker 10: be some motivation and that's got to be documented, and

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Speaker 10: it can be documented through that phone.

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Speaker 2: Tennessee teens Savannah Copeland has vanished suddenly during the night,

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Speaker 2: and her father has not heard from her for hours.

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Speaker 2: Where is thirteen year old Tennessee cheerleader Savannah?

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Speaker 1: And then mom and Dad's worst nightmare, worst nightmare comes true.

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Speaker 11: At around four forty five this afternoon, through dispatch, we

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Speaker 11: received the call on a possible deceased body on a

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Speaker 11: trail over a Broad Acre subdivision. Our authors responded to

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Speaker 11: that did find a body.

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Speaker 12: Reaching out to the Knox County Sheriff's Office, deputies begin

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Speaker 12: searching for Savannah Copeland. Nearly twelve hours after deputies are

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Speaker 12: called in to help search, Michael Copeland here sirens and

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Speaker 12: says he knew they had to be for Savannah. A

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Speaker 12: teen walking along a popular trail that runs behind a

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Speaker 12: public swimming pool in the Broad Acres neighborhood in Powell,

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Speaker 12: finds the lifeless body of Savannah Copeland. Savannah Copeland has

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Speaker 12: been stabbed multiple times by what appears to be a

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Speaker 12: small knife and left to bleed to death alone on

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Speaker 12: the dirt trail.

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Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend Shareff Tom Spangler with Knox County

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Speaker 1: Tennessee Sheriff's Office along with our friends at WAT E

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Speaker 1: six to doctor Kendall Crown's joining US renowned chief medical

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Speaker 1: examiner at Terrant County that's Fort Worth and a steam

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Speaker 1: lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Doctor Crowns,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. How can you look

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Speaker 1: at Malta stabbings and determine a when there's overlapping stabs,

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Speaker 1: how many times the victim has been stabbed and two

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Speaker 1: that the knife use the cutting instrument was, as it

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Speaker 1: has said been said shallow.

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Speaker 13: So you can look at the stab wounds and get

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Speaker 13: an actual count. Sometimes when they crisscross an overlap, you

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Speaker 13: can still get an idea based on how the other

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Speaker 13: stab wounds, what the stab wounds would look like, and

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Speaker 13: kind of separate out the ones that have crisscross or

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Speaker 13: overlapped and get an.

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Speaker 5: Approximate account account.

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Speaker 13: Now, determining whether the knife is a short blade or

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Speaker 13: a long blade can be difficult because the body has

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Speaker 13: what is called elasticity, or when you push in it

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Speaker 13: can deform a little bit, and so you can shove

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Speaker 13: a short bladed knife in deeper than the actual length

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Speaker 13: of the blades. So determining the overall blade length sometimes

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Speaker 13: can be difficult, but you can get a rough approximation

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Speaker 13: depending on the depth of the stab wound.

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Speaker 1: Back to the overlapping stab wounds. And I encounter this

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Speaker 1: in the investigation in the stabbing death of Travis Alexander

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Speaker 1: by Jody Arius May she Rot in Hell. He was stabbed,

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Speaker 1: and it was argued over and over and over how

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Speaker 1: many times Travis had been stabbed before he was shot

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Speaker 1: in the head. Some authority said twenty seven, twenty eight,

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Speaker 1: twenty nine, and thirty times due to overlapping stab wounds

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Speaker 1: where you are in a frenzy stab mode and you

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Speaker 1: stab repeatedly, and some of the stab wounds are actually

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Speaker 1: exactly where other stab wounds are. Now, the playability of

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Speaker 1: human flesh also lends to confusion in determining how many

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Speaker 1: stab wounds explain.

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Speaker 5: So those are what is called mees lines.

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Speaker 13: It's what when your surgeon is doing an operation, they

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Speaker 13: try to cut along those lines to make it so

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Speaker 13: the skin doesn't pull apart and creates less of a scar.

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Speaker 13: So when you're being stabbed, they're not concerned about you're cosmetics,

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Speaker 13: so they'll go against these knees lines, and the skin

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Speaker 13: itself will pull apart and make the wounds look gaping

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Speaker 13: or enlarged. Based on that pulling a part of the skin.

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Speaker 13: And again also with stab wounds, you have to consider

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Speaker 13: that they don't necessarily just stick the knife in, but

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Speaker 13: they will also stick it in and then pull it down,

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Speaker 13: making large gaping holes as well. So they can be

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Speaker 13: very confusing when you get multiple stab wounds of this nature,

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Speaker 13: which we generally call overkilled because you don't need to

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Speaker 13: stab someone that many times to kill them.

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Speaker 1: In this case, it was determined very quickly that a

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Speaker 1: small knife was used to murder the thirteen old cheerleader,

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Speaker 1: Savannah Copeland. And let me add she has a twin brother.

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Speaker 1: She has two brothers.

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Speaker 3: Let me think their names.

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Speaker 1: Twin brother Casey and other brother Britain. As I recall

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Speaker 1: that said, a special bond between twins is like no

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Speaker 1: other boy girl twins and another brother. That said, back

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Speaker 1: to the number of stabbings and the assumption that a

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Speaker 1: small knife was used, A small knife, and this is

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Speaker 1: probative as well, and I'll explain later. A small knife

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Speaker 1: is deemed to be two to six inches long. Okay,

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Speaker 1: could that be a pocket knife? Doctor Kendall Crowns.

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Speaker 5: Yes, that could definitely be a pocket knife.

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Speaker 13: Usually they're small blades that are opened and fixed.

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Speaker 1: Another issue doctor kill the Crown's and believe me, all

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Speaker 1: of this is critical as it comes to proving this case.

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Speaker 1: We know all about Brian Coburger, right. We wish we didn't,

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Speaker 1: but we did. In that case, the killer, who the

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Speaker 1: state says is Brian Coburger, murdered four people and what

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Speaker 1: appeared to be a frenzy stabbing because they were slashed

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Speaker 1: and stabbed multiple times. It was anything but a frenzy stabbing.

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Speaker 1: In that case, a fixed blade knife was used. How

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Speaker 1: is that different from a pocket knife? And how can

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Speaker 1: you tell from the stab wounds that a fixed blade

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Speaker 1: or a shallow knife such as a pocket knife was used.

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Speaker 3: How can you differentiate that? This is important?

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Speaker 13: So pocket knives when you open them up, will become

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Speaker 13: fixed at the end when you lock it into place,

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Speaker 13: so it will be a fixed blade at that point.

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Speaker 13: One thing you can look for with a pocket knife,

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Speaker 13: if it's driven all the way into the hilt, it

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Speaker 13: will leave a basically an abrasion, kind of a semicircular

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Speaker 13: abrasion around the stab wound itself. If you're using a

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Speaker 13: larger fixed blade knife, you can get similar similar injuries

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Speaker 13: when the knife is shoved in all the way again

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Speaker 13: to the hilt or the cross guard, whatever you want

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Speaker 13: to say, and it will leave a pattern abrasion marks

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Speaker 13: on there. So what you're looking for with the pocket

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Speaker 13: knife as you look for those characteristics kind of abrasions

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Speaker 13: around the side of the stab wound, whereas if you

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Speaker 13: have a large fixed knife you look for this the

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Speaker 13: abrasions from the cross guard itself.

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Speaker 2: A gruesome discovery along a popular trail path. Thirteen year

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Speaker 2: old Savannah Copeland's body has been found brutally stabbed, just

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Speaker 2: hours after she's gone missing. Who killed the thirteen year

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Speaker 2: old athlete?

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Speaker 1: Who lord a thirteen year old little girl out of

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Speaker 1: her home while her parents were sleeping after midnight. Now,

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Speaker 1: to listen to defense attorney Philip Dubay, who does not

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Speaker 1: have children, I might add.

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Speaker 3: That's just normal. It's not normal.

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Speaker 1: It is normal for teens, even children to communicate on

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Speaker 1: their phones and their tablets, but getting lured out of

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Speaker 1: your home after midnight or at any time is not normal.

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Speaker 1: And why would you do that after midnight so the

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Speaker 1: parents can't know unless it was for a nefarious reason.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about a thirteen year old little girl just

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Speaker 1: turned one of a set of twins, her brother and

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Speaker 1: other siblings left behind to add to the tragedy, if

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Speaker 1: that can even be imagined.

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Speaker 3: The purp is identified.

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Speaker 11: Tonight just around nine pm, detectives identified a person of

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Speaker 11: interest and arrested a fifteen year old male and is

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Speaker 11: being charged with second degree murder in the death of

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Speaker 11: a thirteen year old young lady.

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Speaker 1: A fifteen year old boy just turned By the way,

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Speaker 1: you were just hearing share of Tom Spangler of Knox County,

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Speaker 1: Tennessee Sheriff's Office from WAT six.

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Speaker 3: But the dad, Savannah's father, weighs in it was a

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Speaker 3: betrayal of trust.

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Speaker 4: I'm angry at this kid's family that I have opinions about.

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Speaker 1: Now, not only a fifteen year old boy just turned fifteen,

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Speaker 1: but also known to the.

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Speaker 3: Family a family friend.

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Speaker 1: You heard of Michael Copeland, Savannah's dad, speaking to our

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Speaker 1: friends at WAT E six. He calls it a betrayal

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Speaker 1: of trust. He said he's angry at the boy's family

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Speaker 1: that he now has opinions about. I'd like to hear

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Speaker 1: what those opinions are. Why was the boy out at

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Speaker 1: that time of night?

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Speaker 3: Why was he luring a.

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Speaker 1: Little girl who wo just turned thirteen out of her home?

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Speaker 1: So many questions swirling right now, but I want to

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Speaker 1: circle back to doctor Kendall Crowns joining US Medical Examiner

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Speaker 1: at Arrant County Chief Medical Examiner at Arrant County, Savannah.

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Speaker 1: A thirteen year old little girl bled out. She didn't

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Speaker 1: get apparently stabbed in the heart, so she died instantly.

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Speaker 3: She laid there in the middle of the night, all

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Speaker 3: alone in the.

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Speaker 1: Woods, as her life's blood slipped out of her. How

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Speaker 1: long would it have taken her to die, doctor Kendall Crowns.

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Speaker 13: If she's not stabbed in the heart, It depends on

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Speaker 13: what vessel has hit, how many times she's stabbed. It

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Speaker 13: can be minutes to anywhere from a few minutes to

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Speaker 13: ten to fifteen minutes, depending on what gets stepped.

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Speaker 1: Veterman's trying lawyer, Philip Dubay, defense attorney out of LA

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Speaker 1: So this may have been a frenzy attack with so

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Speaker 1: many stab wounds. But given the probative evidence, the evidence

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Speaker 1: we're going to find out at autopsy, he would have

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Speaker 1: left her there on the ground in the woods at

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Speaker 1: two thirty am, all alone and walked away as she died.

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Speaker 9: Thoughts, Well, first of all, you're asking a fifteen year

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Speaker 9: old to think like an adult and to render aid

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Speaker 9: and to try to get help.

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Speaker 1: I'm asking you your opinion on that. Is it anything

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Speaker 1: but cold blood? Because he could have called for help

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Speaker 1: to save her, but he didn't.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 9: One of the clues is that the prosecutions filed this

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Speaker 9: as a second degree. A first degree in Tennessee would

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Speaker 9: be a premeditated killing. This was clearly unpremeditated, which is

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Speaker 9: probably why they filed it as a second If it

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Speaker 9: were truly alluring that showed he had murder on his

411
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Speaker 9: mind by keeping an unshallow folding knife on his person,

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Speaker 9: then that clearly shows an intent to kill. It sounds

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Speaker 9: like something erupted. There was some type of paroxism, if

414
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Speaker 9: you will, of fury out on that dirt trail where

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Speaker 9: he suddenly erupted in blind rage and stabbed her up.

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Speaker 9: But I don't think it was planned. I think it

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Speaker 9: was spur of the moment, which is why they're going

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Speaker 9: to do a transfer hearing, at which time the judge

419
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Speaker 9: will decide if this kid stands trial as an adult.

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Speaker 1: I would like to correct you. In Tennessee, the law

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Speaker 1: defines second degree murder as one of two types and

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Speaker 1: one of those types. Is a knowing killing of another,

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Speaker 1: repeat a knowing killing of another. It is not a

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Speaker 1: voluntary manslain such as you are describing.

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Speaker 3: Under the law. When we hear the words knowing, that.

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Speaker 1: Means that you have a mensreea, that you have an intent,

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Speaker 1: a knowledge of what you're doing, A knowing killing.

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Speaker 3: This is not a voluntary manslaughter.

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Speaker 1: Is not a dui where you get drunk but you

430
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Speaker 1: did not intend on actually killing somebody.

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Speaker 3: This is a knowing killing.

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Speaker 1: As you just try to pull the wool over my

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Speaker 1: eyes in Tennessee.

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Speaker 3: It's a knowing killing. That's murder.

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Speaker 9: Tee, No, I understand, but remember there's two ways you

436
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Speaker 9: can do it, explicitly or implicitly. If you stabbed her

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Speaker 9: four or five times and kept doing it. Yes, it

438
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Speaker 9: is so reckless that anybody could infer subjectively and objectively

439
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Speaker 9: an intent to kill without actually uttering the words I

440
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Speaker 9: am going to take you out. Your life is over.

441
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 9: The conduct of engaging in repeated stabbing suggests it implies

442
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 9: that intent to who do you.

443
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 3: Think you're talking to? Do you think I just fell

444
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 3: off the turnip truck. I have tried many many homicides.

445
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: Don't try to muddy the water by spouting out the

446
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: definitions under the law of implicit and express intent. Because

447
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 1: the law says murder can be proved by implicit evidence,

448
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: implicit intents or express Now implicit, let me.

449
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 3: Start with express.

450
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,719
Speaker 1: That's when I say, dobet, I'm killing you now, and

451
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: then I shoot you. My words have expressly shown I

452
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: intend to kill you. Implicit means the jury can judge

453
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: by the actions or other extrinsic evidence, such as repeat stabbing.

454
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: If he did not mean to.

455
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: Kill her, then why stab her over and over and

456
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: over and leave.

457
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 3: Her to bleed out dead? You know, so all of.

458
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: Your legal mumbo jumbo, don't even try that with me

459
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 1: debate because the law says intent can be proven implicitly

460
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: or expressly. And I would argue to a jury that

461
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: when this many stabs, he had to intend to kill her,

462
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: which supports a knowing killing, which is murdered too under

463
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: Tennessee law.

464
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 3: Are you saying that's wrong?

465
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 5: No?

466
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 9: But the endgame here is to spare this kid is

467
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 9: transferred to the adult court.

468
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 3: Just waste my time.

469
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 9: No, the victory would be to keep the kid in

470
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 9: juvenile court because he would max out. I think at

471
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 9: age twenty one, whereas if he's found unsuitable for juvenile court,

472
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 9: he'll go upstairs to adult court, where he could in

473
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 9: theory do up to sixty years. And by the way,

474
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 9: it was brilliant for the prosecution not to file this

475
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 9: as the first degree because the jury could come back

476
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 9: or the court could come back with a life without

477
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 9: parole type sentence, So at some point this young man

478
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 9: will get out.

479
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: A fifteen year old boy is taken into custody after

480
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: the brutal stabbing death of thirteen year old Tennessee cheerleader

481
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: Savannah Copeland.

482
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 12: Investigators are not saying what led them to arrest fifteen

483
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 12: year old Malachiah Harris for the murder of Savannah Copeland.

484
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 12: Harris is someone the Copeland family knows, someone they have befriended.

485
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 12: Investigators haven't said what the motive for the murder is yet,

486
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 12: but Malachia Harris's charge was second degree murder in the

487
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 12: death of the teen.

488
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: To Lauren Colin, investigative reporter, Lauren explain to me how

489
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: she was found. How was thirteen year old Savannah Copland found?

490
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 7: While her parents were searching for her nancy, they heard

491
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 7: sirens in the distance and they thought to themselves, oh

492
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 7: my gosh, this can't be good. And unfortunately, while a

493
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 7: teen was walking the trail, she came across Savannah's body

494
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 7: and called the authorities.

495
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: I'm wondering how long this little girl suffered. A petition

496
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: released by the court accuses fifteen year old Malachi Harris

497
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: of stabbing Savannah multiple times with a pocket knife he

498
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: took with him that night when he lured her out

499
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: of her home after midnight, leaving her alone on the trail,

500
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: telling no one. Her body laid there undiscovered until late

501
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: the next day, when eighteen walking the trail finds her.

502
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: Lifeless crime stories with Nancy Grace.

503
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 3: To Lauren Cohen again, I understand.

504
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: Prosecutors announced they will try Malachi Harris as an adult

505
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: they want to.

506
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 7: And on January fourteenth, there is going to be a

507
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 7: hearing that will determine if he will be tried as

508
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 7: an adult. But in the meantime, he is being held

509
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 7: at the juvenile detention center that is called Richard L.

510
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 7: Bean in Knoxville. Well and that Nancy is not a

511
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 7: happy place.

512
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: To Phillip debate, high profile defense lawyer out of la As.

513
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: Many jurisdictions call it bindover process is when a juvenile

514
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: is quote bound over or transferred to adult superior court.

515
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: In most jurisdictions, there is a semblance of the seven Deadlys,

516
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: seven deadly sins that almost automatically ensure a teen will

517
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: be treated as an adult. I want to remind everyone

518
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: that a teen is never put in an adult jail.

519
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: If they are tried and sentenced as an adult, they

520
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: go to a juvenile facility until they become twenty one.

521
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: Then they go into an adult facility. Back to the

522
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: bindover process and the seven deadlies. I should have these memorized.

523
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: I don't the seven dead lists. It guarantee you a

524
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: bind over to adult court. Murder, rape, sodomy, childlesstation, armed robbery, arson,

525
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: an aggravated assault.

526
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 3: Those are the seven.

527
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: Aggravated assault with a weapon such as a knife or

528
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: a gun, we shoot somebody. Those almost guarantee you'll be

529
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: treated as an adult. What's your response to beate? Not?

530
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 9: In Tennessee they do it a little bit differently. Their

531
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 9: removal process requires a probable cause finding that the crime

532
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 9: has been committed and that given the miners age reprior

533
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 9: rehabilitative efforts, the sophistication of the crime and a mental

534
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 9: health history, certainly whether or not the miner has a

535
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 9: criminal record, and that the interest of the community would

536
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 9: be served. The minor can be removed out of juvenile

537
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 9: to the adult court of jurisdiction. And the stakes, as

538
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 9: you know, Nancy, are quite high. This young man under

539
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 9: Tennessee law could do between fifteen and sixty years in

540
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 9: the state prison after the age of eighteen.

541
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: Also, you pointed out, as I expected, how long a

542
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: sentence could be if eighteen is treated as an adult.

543
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 3: What you did not point out is how.

544
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: Light a sentence could be in juvenile GV court GIV jail.

545
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: He could walk free in as little as eighteen months

546
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: with time credit for dating back to the time he

547
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: was arrested eighteen months for multiple stab wounds on a

548
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: thirteen year old girl left to bleed out in the

549
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: woods at two thirty a m away from her mother,

550
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: away from.

551
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 3: Her father and her home. I want to talk.

552
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: About premeditation because to you, Barry Hudgeson joining me former

553
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: law enforcement now chief investigator at Barry and Associates Investigations, Barry,

554
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: when you lure a little girl out of her home,

555
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: and as we said earlier, by somebody that's going to

556
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: be determined by looking at text messages, phone calls, snaps,

557
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: you name it, the intent will be there. I believe

558
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: that helped lure her out. But also the fact that

559
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: he goes to get her carrying a knife, So then

560
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 1: they don't just go walk around the block. They don't

561
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 1: sneak down to waffle house. He lures her to a

562
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: densely wooded area, a secret location. All of that shows intent.

563
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 6: To me, I would agree with you one thousand percent, Nancy.

564
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 6: I mean he obviously had the fairyes ideas. I mean,

565
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 6: why would he be taking her to a remote area.

566
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 6: I mean to me, it all points to him wanting

567
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 6: to have some kind of a se escapade with the

568
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 6: young lady.

569
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 5: May be heard.

570
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: Oh then I just write down the word sex. Question

571
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: mark Lauren Conlin. What is his motivation? Is it because

572
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: he tried to have sex with a little girl I

573
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 1: a raper and she refused? Or is it something akin

574
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: to Brian Coberger who wanted the thrill of a kill.

575
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: Do we know anything such as was she unclothed?

576
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 3: Nancy?

577
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 7: I have been digging and trying to figure out what

578
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 7: his motive would be, and I come to the same

579
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 7: conclusion as you hear as it was possibly sexually motivated.

580
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 7: We don't know if she was found partially clothed or

581
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 7: fully clothed. But I did notice on this young man's

582
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 7: social media he follows the high school band, the Powell Band,

583
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 7: So he didn't seem like he was into gang activity

584
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 7: at all, because you know, that also crossed my mind.

585
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 3: Could this possibly be Did you say he was the band? Wait?

586
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 3: Did you say he was in the band?

587
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 7: I do not know if he's in the band, but

588
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 7: on his Facebook he follows only three things and one

589
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 7: of them is the Powell High School Band.

590
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 14: The teen accused of killing Savannah Copeland has been in

591
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 14: court for status hearings at least four times. The suspect

592
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 14: has sat quietly in the court even as he learned

593
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 14: that state prosecutors intend to try Harris as an adult.

594
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 14: Judge Tim Irwin has set a transfer hearing for January fourteenth,

595
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 14: and that is the discovery deadline as well. Harris's court

596
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 14: appointed attorney, Josh Hendrick, has filed a request for discovery.

597
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 14: Assistant District Attorney General Rachel Hill told the court that

598
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 14: genetic testing and other forensic testing results may not be

599
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 14: back until after the first.

600
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 3: Of the year. Very little has been released about Harris.

601
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 3: So far.

602
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 14: We know that he was known to the Copeland family,

603
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 14: who has at times welcomed him into their home. Harris

604
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 14: was living with his grandfather and several siblings at the

605
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 14: time of the killing. Harris is being held in the

606
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 14: Richardale Bean Detention facility.

607
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: Not just a teen boy, but a family friend who

608
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: the Copelands had welcomed into their home on multiple occasions.

609
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: The degree of betrayal runs deep, and you hear the

610
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: father state he is angry at the Purpse family as well.

611
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 1: To Lauren Conlin, I've got so many questions, but explain

612
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: to me what this boy's demeanor was in court.

613
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 7: He was described Nancy as emotionless, kind of looking down

614
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,439
Speaker 7: at his hands. He didn't appear to have any type

615
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 7: of remorse.

616
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: You know, I'm very curious about the defense Philip Dubay

617
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 1: because if he claims that it wasn't him, the fact

618
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: that they are waiting for genetic testing indicates to me

619
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: that they think they found DNA, likely his DNA at

620
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: the scene or her DNA possibly on his clothing. I

621
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: don't know, but there is DNA that's being tested right now,

622
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 1: And it reminds me of Coburger, who almost got away

623
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: with it if he had not left DNA on the

624
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 1: snap of a knife hilt. So if there is DNA,

625
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: he can't climb. It wasn't me. He's going to have

626
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: to go with mental defect. And that's why it's so

627
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: important that I'm able to match the knife up his

628
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: pocket knife to those wounds exactly.

629
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 9: Otherwise there really is no defense for the young man

630
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 9: other than a menal defense. And obviously he gave a

631
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 9: statement to the police. Would be my guests. The science

632
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 9: evidence might not under these circumstances be enough, but it

633
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 9: sounds like he copped out. Frankly, we're going to find

634
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 9: out a lot about this young man. Given his age,

635
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 9: he could have been in the throes of early onset schizophrenia,

636
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 9: bipolar disorder, or who knows, maybe even a personality disorder.

637
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 9: And again, the goal, the endgame at the transfer hearing

638
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 9: is not innocence. It's to keep him retained in the

639
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 9: juvenile court jurisdiction.

640
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 1: Just stop right there, Number one, Do you have a shred,

641
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: a sentilla, a speck of evidence that he has schizophrenia

642
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: or did you.

643
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 3: Just make that up.

644
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 9: No, I'm just telling you that's going to be explored

645
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 9: when you hear it. Like for example, Lauren talk you

646
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 9: have no no, but there was a flat affect in court,

647
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 9: you have no emotion. There's something obviously ailing the young man.

648
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: Yes guilt to doctor Jory Crausen, could you explain why

649
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: a personality disorder that Philip Dubay just fabricated.

650
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 3: Is not a defense.

651
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: It does not rise to a mental defect, and it

652
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 1: is certainly not insanity. It could be for all I know,

653
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: histrionic or narcissistic. That's not a mental defense.

654
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 10: Yeah, neither of those are mental def as far as

655
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 10: like a defense. You know, keep in mind, insanity is

656
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 10: a legal term. It's not a psychological diagnosis or anything.

657
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 10: What you're going to be looking at is his mental

658
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 10: state at the time of the commission of the crime

659
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 10: and what led up to that. That's why it's important

660
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 10: to know about that relationship and things that happened there,

661
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 10: because you're going to have behavioral traits. You're going to

662
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 10: have his personality displayed, and that's something that you can

663
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 10: document and when he does a court evaluation, the evaluator

664
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 10: would get into those dynamics to be able to come

665
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 10: up with a diagnosis to present to the court.

666
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at these cheerleader photos and imagining my

667
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: little girl at age thirteen.

668
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 3: If you know or think you know.

669
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 1: Anything about this case, anything at all, text KC SOO,

670
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 1: tip k C S tip two.

671
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 3: Eight four seven for one pin one.

672
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: At this moment, the state is building its case and

673
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: the defense is building its own case.

674
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 3: We wait for justice to unfold.

675
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,