WEBVTT - Chuck Morris 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.120 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:16.280 My guest today is What a Ry concert promoter Chuck Morris. 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.160 This week is titled as Chairman Emarritus of the Age 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:24.720 presents in both Denver and the Pacific Northwest, and he's 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:29.880 head of the new music business program at Colorado State University. Chuck, 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:32.200 good to have you. Now, this is great, Bob, thank 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:34.720 you so much for inviting me. Okay, let's just start 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:40.720 with general topics. Live shows, when are they coming back? Um, Hey, 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.600 you know as well as I, we need a vaccine. 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:46.840 You know, we we figured out our beautiful new uh 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:52.199 Mission ballroom which seats walt all standing thirty fifty. If 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:54.480 we're socially distant, we may be able to sell seven 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:57.480 under tickets and the band can't make a penny. We're 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:00.240 not in business. It's gonna need a vaccine. If I 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.680 had a guess, and it's strictly a guess, my guest 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.880 is a vaccine will go We'll start being given out. 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.679 And this is such a guess. You never know. I 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.680 think by next April to June of next year will 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:18.399 begin to have shows. That's my guests. Okay, just a 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.319 couple of questions. If we don't have a vaccine, no shows. 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.800 I don't see how big acts, even midsize acts can 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:30.360 play in our kind of halls. I mean, you know, 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.560 we have the Bluebird five hundred, the Odds in seventeen hundred, 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.760 the Gothic a thousand. We have big shows at the 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.160 stadiums of PEPSI, we have the our mission ballroom is 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:45.640 thirty d We have the first bank, which is you 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:47.640 can't put enough people in for the band to make 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.960 a penny. I think the tiny acts will play the 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.680 tiny rooms for fifty people and probably be happy. I mean, 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:56.400 if I was a baby act and who just wanted 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.080 to play, it's in my advantage to do that. But 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.600 the big acts, I don't see how they can do it. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.480 I just don't see it. I mean, do you, Uh No, 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:10.079 I don't either. But going back before March, before the shutdown, 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.680 how would you compare the business as opposed to the 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:18.480 seventies when you really got ranking and going. Our business 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:23.959 today up till this tragedy has been mind blowing. When 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.600 I first started, my first club was Tlagi's Nightclub and 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:33.200 Boulder UM. I never dreamed that I would outlive all 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.359 my rich friends who are working for record companies and 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:42.280 morning guys in radio and entertainment editors of newspapers, and 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.760 we outlived them all. You know, the Internet, all the 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.840 other stuff that's going on. Uh, you can replace anything 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.560 except live music. And I was always you know, I 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:56.840 owned clubs for first eight years, and then I started 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.400 working with Faye as his number two guy, and built 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:01.120 my own cup and you with Greg Pearl of b 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.320 g P Chuck Morris and went on blah blah blah, 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.440 the Sects, the clear Channel to live Nation, and then 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.200 I joined my old friend Phil and Sews. I never 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:15.720 dreamed that live entertainment would get so big and a 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.200 big chunk of the rest of the business would be 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.440 replaced by other things and making it less well, make 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.400 making it less important. I mean I was always uh 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.040 jealous of my friend, not jealous. I never cared about 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.120 money anyway. But you know, my rich friends worked for 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:34.960 record companies. They were morning guys, they were newspaper editors 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.600 of music editors. They were writing for Rolling Stone and 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.720 making good money on articles. They were doing all this stuff. 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:46.240 While the libins we we did well, don't get me wrong, 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.120 but I never dreamed it would be do this well, 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.160 I mean our office and God bless my great partners. 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.480 One of them happens to like you, which I worry 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.680 about Don Strassburg and Brent for Trees, who will be 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:00.840 taking over my position as the number one person. I've 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.880 been with them twenty seven years. Um, I have a 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.360 dream to it get this big. You know it used 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.960 to be in the old days. I think you'll agree 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:14.200 with this. People would go on the road to sell 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.600 albums because that's where they made all their money. Today, 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.640 you make an album as a pr thing so you 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.240 can sell more tickets on the road. That's where they 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:28.520 make all their money. Okay, so I agree with you totally. 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:33.360 In terms of being the promoter. How has it changed 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:39.920 in terms of deals from then to today? The bands? Uh? Well, 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:44.080 first of all, I hate old promoters that liked the 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:48.520 old days and either leave the business or complain about it. 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.680 To me, it's a much better business. I don't mind 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.120 the fact that there's more lawyers and accountants and people 0:04:55.240 --> 0:05:00.680 that protect the bands, the customers, even the promoters and everybody. 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:02.560 I'm not one of those old guys that said, oh 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.120 I wish there's the old way where we could you know, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.360 write and an offer on a piece of paper and 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.840 bullshit away with expenses. You know, every agency has their 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.640 own marketing people, their own accountants, their own everything. Tour 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.840 managers are as sharpest that can get. And I think 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.000 it's a better business for that. And I've learned how 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:24.120 to change. That's why I've survived this long up until now. 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.240 And now I'm I'm doing something that I've wanted for 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.560 most of my life, which is as I as I 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.640 ended my career, uh started department at a major university 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.400 in Colorado and teach music business, which has been my 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:41.080 love my whole life. Well, we'll certainly get deeper into that, 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.600 but going with this statement just made how have you 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.640 changed over the years in terms of business. Um, I've 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.080 learned how to deal with lawyers, and I've learned how 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.200 to deal with accountants, and I've learned how to have 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:58.160 people now, you know, make deals and go through them 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.159 and number by number. I've learned that you have to 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:05.800 be straight in today's world. I mean in the old days, 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.080 let's be real, in the seventies, even into the eighties, 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.719 we were all partying, we were all having it was 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.280 a great business. I had more fun than you can believe, 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:18.400 but I mean I got sober. I've been sober ever 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.239 since because my body was breaking down and I couldn't 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.720 stay until four o'clock in the morning and get up 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.320 and go to work, and it was breaking down, and 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.800 I had I realized that business is getting so big 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.920 and how you had to be straight to deal with 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.520 what was going on was how it was changing, and 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:41.200 I think all for the better, I really really do. Okay, So, uh, 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.520 let's talk about an act that can sell arenas or larger. 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:51.760 Traditionally they're taking about nine So if you're lucky, if 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.000 you're okay. So where does the promoter make their money today? 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.040 Promoter makes his money if he owns a building. You 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:01.800 make it on food and beverage, an alcohol, and some 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.680 on ticketing if you have your own ticketing company, or 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.400 you make a deal with the ticketing company on on 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:12.440 corporate sponsorship. As far as the door is concerned, the 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:17.360 bands make some points percent percent of the growth of 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.440 the door. You have to make it an answering income 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.480 or you're not in business anymore. In the old days, 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.720 I remember the first deals I made. One of the 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:28.720 first acts, Big Acts, one of the first acts that 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.560 played for me was the Doobie Brothers in seventy one 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:35.000 on my first club nineteen seventy actually listen to the music, 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.640 was just breaking their first fifth single. I gave them 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:41.880 twenty dollars versus fifty percent of the door for five nights. 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.560 We didn't show any expenses because it didn't matter. They 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.200 got half the door, so I could spend all I 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.960 wanted or nothing. And we always sold great tickets in 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:54.120 Bold of Colorado. My club's always just so well. So 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:58.120 they didn't care, and so there was never any settlements. 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:00.960 They made half the door. Yeah, they count of the tickets, 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.440 took half the money and left and everybody was happy. 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.800 It was just a different ballgame. The bands, the promoters 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:10.560 made a chunk of the door in the old days. 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.000 Today's days have changed now. Don't know if you get 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.320 Irving was the first that I love. Irving one of 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.720 my oldest dearest friends. I did this second Eagles Day 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:22.640 when they played for me in my club too, Lodgy's, 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:26.520 in November of n rehearsing. They played a week in 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.320 Aspen and a week for me in Boulder to rehearse 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:34.160 to make their first album, and Irving had just joined 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.960 Elliot Robinson, David Geffen, I don't even know if he 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.440 was doing the day to day for the Eagles. And 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:41.960 they called and they said they wanted two weeks to rehearse, 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.079 so they were gonna go in in January to make 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.240 their first album. And their producer, guy named Glenn John's, 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.520 was flying in from England and wanted to take notes. 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.280 And it was it was the last week in November 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:58.319 after Thanksgiving, college town college kids with three too bar 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.200 so you could be eighteen. And I said, no one's 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.360 gonna come. There's finals and then they leave, and I 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.839 think I was talking to may rest in peace. It 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:09.960 was Elliot Robins or David Geffen, I can't remember. I 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:11.839 said nobody's gonna be there, and said, we don't care. 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.000 We're gonna work a week and ask them that little 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.439 club up there which is still around a different name, 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:20.400 the Goldberghnes and My Club, and it was the four 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:24.719 original guys um and we did about twelve people a 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:28.839 night and they were amazing. But I I watched history 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.800 because I saw Glenn John's taking notes. But they were 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.200 playing all the songs from their first album. They had 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.080 never done any live days before that. I was they 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.840 had they who put together by those guys. Uh, let's 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:44.520 just stop there. Uh So if they played for five nights, 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.880 business did not increase over those five nights. Uh it 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.120 was a blizzard most of the time and finals were over. No, 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.920 they didn't, but they didn't care. They wanted to rehearse 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.960 the songs and they were playing peaceful, easy feeling and 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.679 take it Easy and all those great songs they recorded 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.319 a month and a half later in London with Glenn 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:10.040 John's Wow. So I watched history that week. Okay, let's 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:14.800 talk about dates that you buy where you're losing money. 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:21.240 What happens then, both in the past and in today. Um. 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.920 Most promoters today have given up asking for money back. 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.920 In fact, I really never did a because I was 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.319 always embarrassed to do it. Even though I was a 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.360 club owner, I was self made, I didn't I wasn't 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:39.440 Baptist before I joined fe Line and Barry UM. But 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.640 I always felt, you know, you win some, you lose some, 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.560 and we got killed on some dates and it was 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.720 not much she could do. I will tell you the 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.640 greatest story ever. Though I had a great comic named 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.320 Dick Gregory at Ebbottsfield, my second club. I named it 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.640 because I grew up in Brooklyn, ten blocks from the 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.079 baseball park of the Brooklyn Just I was a big 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.839 brookn Dodging fan at nine years old, and I had 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:08.439 Dick Gregory as a stand up. He had already started 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.640 moving away from being a stand up. It was probably 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:16.520 nineteen seventy seventy one, maybe two at Ebbittsfield and tore 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.880 about eighty people, and I gave him twenty dollars, which 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.760 was a lot in those days. And this happened to 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.280 be the only time in my career he and he 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.680 didn't have a road manager. In those days aren't usually 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:32.080 turned on their own. And he walked in, the nicest guy, 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.480 just and he was already writing books on losing weight 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.440 and liquid diets and was moving away from being a 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:40.880 stand up, so he wasn't seting tickets much as a 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.839 stand up anymore. And he looked at me and said, 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.880 he got killed to night, didn't you. I said, yeah, 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:50.720 I got killed. He said, I'm gonna tell you something. 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:55.440 You pay me whatever you think is fair. And I 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.720 wrote out a chapter half the money never happened since 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.240 only time in my career that an artist ever did that. 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.200 That was Dick Gregory. I will never forget that as 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:09.360 long as I live. It was the sweetest, kindest, wonderful thing. 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:11.960 And I needed the money because we were getting murdered 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:16.200 and that never happened again. Okay, so when we you 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:20.439 know what the conventional wisdom today is no one gives 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:25.560 money back to Live Nation because it's a public company. Uh. 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:29.320 Were you the outlier or were really other? You know? 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:31.880 The tradition was I give money back to the promoter 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.720 to keep him in business, so the next time around 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.360 he has money to pay me. Was it that you 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:41.520 were so good and your economics were good, or was 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.840 it there were other people getting money back? What do 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.760 you think that I shouldn't say not getting back to 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:49.000 just that there have been some and there still are 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.640 some if you get killed. There's some artists that are 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:56.040 pretty a few that are very nice about it. Um. 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.880 But to be honest, most of the time they blame 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.280 the promoter or the club owner that we didn't know 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.640 how to sell tickets. When it's sold out, it's because 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.640 the act is hot. And when it doesn't it doesn't 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.040 sell tickets is because we do a lousy job. And 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.200 that's not everybody. God bless them. There's some of the 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.760 greatest artists in the world that I consider some of 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.120 my best friends. You know, I managed the Dirt Band 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.840 for years. They always gave money back if they if 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.440 they heard a promoter. But of course they wanted to 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.640 come back, and some of them were country festivals that 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:28.880 they wanted to come back and play too. I mean, 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.040 there was some some reason for it, but they were 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.640 really nice guys who didn't like to see people get burned. 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.440 So there are people like that, but it's not not 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.640 a general thing that happens. You know, a band comes 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:45.160 out today with you know, even midsize acts with you know, 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:49.400 four semis and a fourteen man crew, and they have 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:51.760 a lot of expenses. I sound like a band manage now, 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:53.760 which I've been my whole career, as well as promoter. 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.439 But you know, it's hard for them to give back 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:00.400 some money. Okay, let's say you're the promoter and you 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.960 lost money and the band wants to come back. What 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:10.000 do you say, Um, have I asked them for money 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.280 back when I got killed the first time? No? No, No, 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.920 let's just say you did the date you lost a 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.280 real sum of money as opposed to ten dollars. Suddenly 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.720 it's six months a year later, they want to come 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:23.920 back on the road. They ask you for an offer. 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:25.800 What do you say? You say, you give him a 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.040 lobo offer. You give them what they want. You say, 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.440 I'm not gonna play you at all. All of the above, 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.080 none of the above. I've lost money on bands knowing 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.960 I would. When I heard a first album from an 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.280 act that I thought was phenomenal and I knew that 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.680 hadn't the record hadn't really started taking off. I would 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.160 lose money out of band, a few bucks because I 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.440 believe in the band. People forget what Bruce Springsteen what 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:56.080 was his third album? Fourth album before he happened? Ari 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.360 Ari Speedwagon had like three or four before you know did? 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.160 They're big hit A million acts were like that, and 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.560 I would. I would lose money a few bucks on 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:09.000 bands if I believe it'd be a future. Okay. But 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.880 in the old days, prior to the roll up of 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:17.160 the bands were loyal. They're not really loyal anymore, are they. 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:22.200 Some are, some aren't. It's definitely there's a lot less. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.240 There's less loyalty these days, and there used to be. 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.680 Um we have we have people that have played for 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:32.360 us their whole careers. God bless them. And we have 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:38.160 bands that do tours with other unnamed um major promoting 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:42.280 companies that have that have given us an exception on 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.440 their contracts. And we've done the dates in Denver thanks 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.840 to myself, thanks to Don and Brent, who are the 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.480 greatest partners in the world, who have their own relationships 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.640 plus mine. They have great ones where a band sometimes 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.520 will say, I'll do a tour for a Bold Bucks, 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.800 but we we've always worked for the gang in Denver. 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:02.760 We want to play for them. And once in a 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.840 while a band will you know, or a promoter will 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.120 allow that band to make an exception. Sometimes they won't 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:14.320 and they played for somebody else. It does happen. It hurts, 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.760 but it does happen. Okay, So why is Denver such 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:23.280 a spectacular live music market we have. That's a good question. 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:25.920 There have been some great people. I guess I'm one 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.920 of them. My two key guys have been one of them. 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.800 We have the greatest first of all, we have the 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.720 greatest amphonthater in the world, Rent Rocks, which has been 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:38.720 around forever. We also have a great audience that we've 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.400 all helped develop we have some great institutions there. I'm 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.080 not the only one that has been a pretty good promoter, 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.080 bringing in great acts with great buildings. And we have 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:53.640 a town, an unbelievable public pbst you know about Nick 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:55.800 and and Ea town there on what three hundred radio 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.800 stations around the country from Boulder, Colorado, which is promoted 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:03.600 some great music from Colorado. We have tell you Ride 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:08.000 Bluegrass when the greatest festivals in the world Colorado Festival. 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.880 You know, thanks to those guys. It's it's a it's 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:16.960 a wonderful place. We've developed a great market for shows, 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.560 for buildings, for special events, and we've had a lot 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.960 of good people. I've by this. I'll talk to Don 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:26.800 and he'll tell me the kind of business he's doing 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.399 with acts that can't tell anywhere near that number in 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:33.679 another market. I'll tell you a funny story when I 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.840 decided to go back and promote. When Barry Faye decided 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.600 to retire, and I was just managing bands and working 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.280 in as a consultant at FE Line, and when Barry 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.840 decided to retire, I was always a number to promoter 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.720 for years behind Barry. I decided to come back and 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.119 I made a deal with my great friend Greg pearl Off, 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.920 and we started Chuck Marris Bill Graham Presents and built 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:56.760 the film more because they had the brand name. I 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.480 always wanted to build a great rock club because I 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:05.160 had built my own before that. And uh, Greg and Sherry, 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.760 who you know, I'm sure very very well. Greg would 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.000 call me and say, there's a mistake here. I said, 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:14.359 what are you talking about? Pro Off? He said, he 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:18.720 got tickets from Michael front day. You're full of it. 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.480 He does great in San Francisco, and he and and 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.359 maybe maybe a few other places and Michael. I love Michael, 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.359 and he sells a lot of tickets now. But there 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.480 were acts like that that Greig thought I was lying 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.879 with my ticket counts. But we have an interesting market. 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:35.320 First of all, we've had KBCO Radio for forty years 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.439 that has played not as much alternative music as they 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.119 do as they used to, but always took chances on 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.840 records and bands. We just have a great, great market 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.159 that we've all worked hard at and developed. You know, 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.440 Austin gets a lot of press, and I love Austin. 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.000 I managed a great band years ago called the Ugly 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.800 Americans of Bob Schneider loved off still love lost the music. 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.280 They get a lot of pressed, but I tell the 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.440 Colorado music scene is really amazing. I don't think we've 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.480 gotten as much national and international presses. We probably should 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.880 have because we've we've developed we meaning all of us. 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:14.320 I'm only one of them, and I've been blessed that 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.600 I have two guys that are taken over. They're probably 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:20.440 better than me. You know, We've just wet some great 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.560 promoters in great club owners, great buildings, great radio stations, 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.359 great special events. It's just been a wonderful place to 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:30.560 develop music. And I've been blessed that I was part 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.000 of it right from the beginning. So let's assume, you know, 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.600 if they're playing the Pepsi Center, which is a small arena, 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:40.560 they're playing red rock. The acts are dictating the terms. 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.080 But if they're playing the Mission ball over, they're playing smaller. 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:48.280 Can the promoter make a greater percentage of the revenue. 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:53.040 That's why it's not true. They explain it to me. 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:57.440 They get almost as much money as they can. That's 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.080 the job of the Asians, and they take almost everything 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.240 from the door and hope you can make it on 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.600 the other end. That's just the way our our business 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.280 has gotten and that's and that's not the worst thing 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.720 in the world. We still do okay, okay, okay, but 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.560 I put five kids through college, so I did. Okay. Okay. 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:20.680 Now we all know on the inside, the ticketmaster is 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:22.760 a front for the acts. Really, the acts are taking 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.280 all the ticket revenue, so the money for profit for 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:30.119 the promoter. Okay, give me your take on it. Ticket 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.919 Master takes money of the money. Yeah, they have to 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.920 make a profit. What I'm saying is, let me put 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:40.639 it in in a different way. The fees were a way 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:44.119 to keep a certain amount of money out of the 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:50.960 gross that the acts wanted to commission. Correct yes and no. Yes, 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:55.600 it's true. But the only way promoters could survive was 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.359 as things got moving along from the seventies and the 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:02.000 eighties and into the nineties, the bands were taking more 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.359 and more and more of the money, and promoters, if 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:07.879 they wanted to survive, how to figure out other ways 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.399 to make money. Some of it was ticketing, some of 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:17.439 it was sponsorship, some of it, some of it was advertising, 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.600 some in the in the in the arenas. Some it 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.320 was all sorts of stuff. Answering income is the only 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:26.120 way promoters have been able to survive, and that's where 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:28.320 you make your money. In the old days, I made 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:32.640 money at the door. We okay, but let's let's talk 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:34.840 about club dates. You know, when you have a hundred 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:40.280 dollar plus ticketed a large venue, the uh the fee 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.879 is less of a percentage of the overall cost. But 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:46.159 I get email all the time people say, well, you 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:50.320 know the ticket was twenty five dollars and the fees 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:53.880 were twenty dollars. What do you say to that? First 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.800 of all, I've never seen that higher higher amount. Well, 0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.040 I certainly have, but maybe not in your more money 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:03.200 for not our market. You're telling me a twenty ticket 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:07.040 against a twenty dollar fee. Yes, just just just for 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:09.960 the ticketing. Now, there's also some buildings that are owned 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.440 by somebody else will have a building fee to pay 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.879 back to build a building. That might be an addit 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:20.120 add on, okay, well, ultimately in fees. Let me put 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:22.320 it in a different way. How come we can't go 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:27.800 into an overall one price because expenses have gone up 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:31.159 for everybody, and everybody is in some ways greedy to 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:33.920 be able to survive, to make as much money as possible, 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.920 and that's why they have managers and agents and lawyers 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:42.520 and accountants. Okay, let's just let's just assume the fee 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:46.520 is fifteen dollars if you own the building and you 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:48.760 are the promoter, or what percentage of the fee will 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:53.199 you get back? It all varies. It all varies on 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:55.919 the city, on the deal you make with a ticketing company, 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.920